The Weight of Chains
What was Yugoslavia to the people who used to live there? Some say it was the symbol of independence. Others say it was developing and changing country that could offer everything to everyone. A society of self-management for all its people. But many would conclude that it is not so easy to say what Yugoslavia was.
The author of this documentary, Boris Malagurski (who also made Kosovo: Can You Imagine?), thinks that his early childhood in Yugoslavia was not bad at all. It was a a very close culture and people cared about each other in so many ways. You just don't see that in the western world in the same way.
He also remembers some other aspects of his life in Yugoslavia like his family, vacations, politics, economy, the standard of living, free medical care and education, guaranteed right to a job, affordable public transportation, housing and utilities, literacy rate over 90%, life expectancy of 72 years, etc.
Yugoslavia was a different case because it had established its own form of socialist model of economic activity which was mixed economy of private capitalist enterprises with state run industry and worker cooperatives. It was considered to be a success story of market socialism.
It had higher rates of growth than most of the countries in Western Europe. It had an advanced welfare state, it was a multiethnic society which lived in harmony, and in many regards it was a model of development.
ALSO WATCH: The Death of Yugoslavia, Yugoslavia: The Avoidable War, Once Brothers, Srebrenica: A Cry from the Grave, Around the Balkans in 20 Days, and The Secret Life of Radovan Karadzic.
I guess you could say that there is really something special about this land. So why people spilled so much blood over it? What went wrong? Who was to blame here? If you thought you knew why Yugoslavia broke up, get ready for 2 hours of shocking facts that will shed a different light on Western intervention in the Balkans.
The first act or reunited Germany was to destroy Yugoslavia. WHY? Because independent Yugoslavia was Nr. 4 in Export of Weapons in the World - Germany was behind. THIS is the only one explenation for that what happend to my Homland.
This Film is Pure Serbian Propaganda. NATO had to Bomb the main SERB TV station in order to stop the propaganda. Ratko Mladic, Vuk Karadzic , Srebrenica, Milosevic . These are the true facts of Yougoslavia.
Hahah, good joke. Propaganda in Serbia is only problem of Serbs and people how live there. How is America and Europe to bomb one independent country?
ok, watched "the death of yugoslavia" and then watched "weight of chains",again, right after. both great films. the bbc film definitely tows the "official" line and ends in 95 so there is nothing there about the final act in kosovo, and the bombing of serbia.
after watching both i can only conclude that the the leaders of serbia and croatia were in league in trying to gain as much land in bosnia as they could. i think there was some serious effort to wrench control of certain areas out of the hands of the inhabitants according to old and new grudges. i see no sector as free of guilt.
it also seems obvious that the western powers were in league to break up the country and rob as much as they could. especially in kosovo. and this is the genius of "weight". they did their homework. there are people in the movie whom i have read in other venues who have reported on this very sort of alignment of banks, technocrats and politicians. not to mention mendacious media types.
this should be a must watch to understand how the recent color revolutions have come about and why. it is the modern version of " the great game" that is being played out in countries in the cross hairs of the western powers' moneyed elite.
i watched this movie a few years ago and was shocked at how much i did not know. i knew there were some questionable stories that came out in the US press. but did not find out about till years later. i think the comments are very informative. i will now watch the bbc doc "the death of yugoslavia" for another side of the story.
from the comments i will say that i hear much hatred coming out towards each other which leads me to believe that the truth is somewhere in the middle. but the actors of the west in this story seem like very bad actors if not the ultimate culprits.
peace to you all
It is so funny how many Albanians comment this video. One day, europe and world will be aware who you are and what kind of people they were supporting.
This Balkan tragedy was actually a war between the Orthodox & Catholic churches. On the Swedish
media the conflict was reported as a war between : Croats, Serbs and Muslims (!) note well, two ethnicity and one religion (!!). Never ever, not radio, no Telly, no newspaper corrected this. Sweden had good ties to Josip et all. The burning down Yu. was just a starter to get ''ears and eyes '' get acquainted with this 'awful' Muslims. So today could come smooth.. in west were i live it's totally legit. to treat Muslims as trash.
I'm curious how a federation as Yu. falls apart and all heavy military equipment ends up at Croats, Serbs & Slovenians... not a chopper, not a tank, no jets, nothing more than some shitty Kalashnikov's to the Bossniaks and Kosovo Albanians. (Yu license made) does it or doesn't it seem weird ? does or doesn't it seem to be planned well looong b4 the crap hit the fan?
Btw. Josip and his buddies could play the Yu. game for so long was because Yu. being the middle hand of arms trade. That's why no one was starving and doing well in x Yu. except the Romans of course. They never had good time and probably never will.
The Serbs attacked & got f...d by NATO and tries to save some face. If there is a face left to save.. so to speak. And of course I'm talking about politicians and military officers. Not the common X Yu. citizens.
There is a book called NATO In The Balkans: Voice of Opposition that confirms what this doc says. The U.S. & Germany (along with the vile NATO) planned the breakup of Yugoslavia- with sanctions and forced them to breakup & fight with each other, and LIED to make the Serbs- the bad guy. It was made a public law,like he said- look it up. Learn some real history, you'll find the US empire does stuff like this all the time. I live in the US, and I know our policitians & government & media can't be trusted.
The sequel to this doc will air on RT this week.
justifying srebrenica! boris, you are evil man!
Well done Boris!
they made of us fools..and we are ,,,,still going in that direction....fooling
Ok I wasn't going to say anything but the sheer naivate in the comments
has forced me to. If the NATO intervention on the Balkans was really
about the slaughter of 5000 Bosnians during the war, then why did NATO
and the UN allow the MASSACRE of ONE MILLION Rawandans in ONE HUNDRED
DAYS during the same time period?
In fact the Lieutenant-General Roméo Antonius Dallaire, OC CMM GOQ MSC CD and Canadian citizen has been DIRECTLY quoted as saying "
And
the truth was also told me right in my face in the first days when I
was told that there was nothing in Rwanda excepthuman beings, and
there's too many of them anyways."
And
while we're stripping away naivate theres a few other facts I cant help
but point out. There were multiple armies in that war. Not just one.
Atrocities were committed by every side. Not just one. This is a fun
link to a video of the Mujahideen playing soccer with the head of a
Serbian man. You just have to google it. (I removed the link to prevent the comment from not being posted.) I strongly
recommend that no one ever watch it. And finally on the point of the
Balkan war I will ask this question. Can we (WMDs) think of (WMDs) any
other (WMDs) times in (WMDs) recent history (WMDs) that we (WMDs) were
lied to (WMDs) in order to (WMDs) get involved in (WMDs) an illegal
(WMDs) and collonialistic conflict?
If you dont want to listen to
Boris Malagurski, then thats fine. Read the Schock Doctrine by Naomi
Klein. Shes an investigative journalist whos done an incredible amount
of research into the causes of conflict over decades and how it
corroborates with economic expansion.
I've said my piece now begin ranting about how biased I am trolls. I dont care I will never read it.
Ok I wasn't going to say anything but the sheer naivate in the comments has forced me to. If the NATO intervention on the Balkans was really about the slaughter of 5000 Bosnians during the war, then why did NATO and the UN allow the MASSACRE of ONE MILLION Rawandans in ONE HUNDRED DAYS during the same time period?
In fact the Lieutenant-General Roméo Antonius Dallaire, OC CMM GOQ MSC CD and Canadian citizen has been DIRECTLY quoted as saying "
And the truth was also told me right in my face in the first days when I was told that there was nothing in Rwanda excepthuman beings, and there's too many of them anyways."
And while we're stripping away naivate theres a few other facts I cant help but point out. There were multiple armies in that war. Not just one. Atrocities were committed by every side. Not just one. And finally on the point of the Balkan war I will ask this question. Can we (WMDs) think of (WMDs) any other (WMDs) times in (WMDs) recent history (WMDs) that we (WMDs) were lied to (WMDs) in order to (WMDs) get involved in (WMDs) an illegal (WMDs) and collonialistic conflict?
If you dont want to listen to Boris Malagurski, then thats fine. Read the Schock Doctrine by Naomi Klein. Shes an investigative journalist whos done an incredible amount of research into the causes of conflict over decades and how it corroborates with economic expansion.
I've said my piece now begin ranting about how biased I am trolls. I dont care I will never read it.
this documentary has nothing to do with truth, don't be fooled. old myths about how we had everything, there was no unemployment etc etc and evil west divided us and made us fight. fairy tale.
the truth is that country was in ruins, especially after Tito's death in 80's, unemployment in poorer parts of the country (Kosovo, Macedonia, parts of Bosnia and Serbia) was really high, up to 50%, we had lack of basic stuff (somehow we forgot odd/even plate numbers system for driving because of lack of gasoline, miles long queues for bread and flour etc), inflation was sky rocketing...
also, author doesn't say a word about millions of people leaving the country over decades, fleeing to Germany and other western countries in search for better life.
bureaucracy was disastrous, and economy was under the burden of "right to work" which lead to inefficient companies that were more and more failing to keep up with eminent technology progress and global market. it was relatively ok in 50's or 60's when there were voluntary work actions, were young people were building a country for free and while the market was closed. with new technologies, global market, china rising, Yugoslavian economy had no chance in hell to survive.
and of course, our famous "brotherhood and unity"... which was nothing but a mass illusion which only existed while father of the nation was alive. as soon as he started to loose a grip due to his age, and especially after his death, all those skeletons started to leave their closets.
the truth is, there were really a lot of unsettled scores, especially between serbs and croats, and those scores were meant to be settled in blood as soon as mass illusion was over. and it had to be in blood because we basically hate each other. a lot.
yeah, as everywhere, simple folks are not evil. but tell them 3 times that their "sanctities" are being attacked by those evil croat/serbs/muslim, and we will explode and rise to arms very, very quickly.
anyway, don't be fooled. this "documentary" is either a fairy tale made by naive, ignorant author, according to myths that many people still believe in, or propaganda in well known "who in the hell divides us, brothers?" manner, mostly present in serbia.
are you serious? probably you are very young and you do not even remember those days...Queuing for bread and flour??? We had everything until 1991- when the war broke out. We had higher salaries and standard of living then most of southern european countries- namely spain, greece, italy...these were cheap travel and shopping destinations for us. In adition, we had free health and education and both extremely good. Our companies exporting all over the world. We became "unwatned" example of how good standard one comunist-socilaist country can have if given a chance...and how great can develop Slavs if joined in one country. This had to be stopped, and it was...
Absolutely brilliant documentary. I've just watched it a second time.
I would say it is good but it is Serb bias ... if author was more objective it could be great documentary
It's a total disgrace what NATO did to these people. Bombing them with depleted uranium on civilians?? Why aren't any NATO people up for war crimes? I've never heard of Serbia waging war on any NATO country. America wanted to control yugoslavia for years and Slobo wouldn't allow them access to their businesses .
Can't wait for his next documentary.
this isn't pro anybody,it's objective,it is about yugoslavia..
To start off with if you want to see a somewhat serious documentary of this period you should watch the death of yugoslavia , made by bbc because seriously this is embarrasing , the movie is completele pro serb. Not that Slovenes , Croats and even Bosnian Muslims did attrocities and that Slovenes and Croats wanted to secede, but by this is just humiliating , anyone who knows anything of the history of the wars in ex yugoslavia , lets remember that by the constitution of the SFRJ or socialistic federative republic of yugoslavia every country had the RIGHT to secede. When they did (Slovenia and Croatia) all arms and millitary equipment was shipped / taken by the serbs. What else would the newly republics do then to try to arm themself ? Who entered whose territory? I mean if you have the right to secede and you do then an army of another country (as the yugoslav army then was controled by serbia) enters your boarders and occupy territory i would call that an act of war and every single human with atleast a little bit of brain knows thats a fact. What do you think Russia would do or U.S.A. would do if any of them entered the other country with a huge millitary force and occupied their territory? Cant believe the lies painted in this documentary
I wached the first 5 min, and am ready to be sick!
Yea every thing was perfect;
Except for the tiny fact that you coudnt leave, you didnt have the right to have your opinion let alone express it, if you wanted to live that is.!
Yea everyone had a guareted job, no mater if you were qualified or not what mattered was who you support politically, and who are your parents.
And becouse everything was so perfect, nations wanted independence and they had to fight in wars to get it!
Has everyone had theis brains washed or what, am appaled!
USE YOUR BRAIN PEOPLE, please!! and read up on some solid evidence.
I know peoples memories are VERY selective, cuz. we DONT WANT TO REMEMBER the bad times, but this goes beyond ANY resonable line!!
Yugoslavia was THE only country among all communist states where people were allowed to travel freely without the government messing with them. That was the reason why so many people worked abroad and brought money back into Yugoslavia. Do you remember the Yugos which were so popular in USA?
This is just a small reason why America wanted them destroyed.
That is NOT TRUE; maybe you were allowed to leave freely if your family was inclined "correctly" - politicly. But a majority had to pay a big sum of money to be allowed out that not everyone could afford.
What is true, however is that in the later years the authorities became more lenient on that front - and even that was most assuredly NOT done from the "goodness of theirs harts" !!
And the fact that it may have been the least terrible out of all communist countries is most decidedly NOT A FEAT TO BE PROUD OF!!!
jane what you are saying is bullocks if you look at west(advanced economies) immigration schemes it is the exact same thing you need to pay money to immigrate to another country if you cancel your passport and arnt born there you have to reapply and will not be allowed back without large soms of money and without any bad political background. think twice before posting on here the readers arnt dumb.
And now you are free to LEAVE! And you ARE leaving, aborting your babies, getting drunk, doing drugs and have sold off your entire country to Germany, the US and Western Bankers! Doesn't that FREEDOM feel WONDERFUL!! Aren't you PROUD of yourself and your country! Feh! You are like sheep. Dumb animals. You deserve to be bought and owned by capitalists. You would rather kill each other than build a country and live in peace with each other.
Well said Jane, These serbs will lie to themselves let alone everyone else. They try and offend us in the west, but wait a sec, is Serbia a good place to live...not really. you will be outnumbered on this post, the serb nationalists will flock to these things like flies to s*it..
a nice bed time story for adults want to dream about how nice life could be. If only the evil, evil Imperialist would not destroy it!!! if world would only realize how great the Serbs are. sooo niceee
by the way - i grew up in Yugoslavia too... :)
I was born in Yugoslavia as member of German minority 1950. Have been living there till 1972.
Look what they have done to my land, ma ! WHY !?? The truth havent been tuched in this documentary:
1. to eliminate the 4. th weapons exporteur in the world !!!
2. to cancel Yugoslav independent way of socialism
3. first step closer to the Russian border - to get strategic position
That some people have problem with history of 2.nd civil war is their own problem. The facts are close to the truth.
This land was my land, the most beautifull in the world... I stay proud
to was born there and grown up inbetween all those Nations and Nature beauty.
I havent been involved.. it was not my war.
Finaly, I have understanding for people who have been taking part and mabye lost their family members or friends.
My best friend is one of Croatian warriors who didnt killd himself, after the end because of PTBS. .. he told me that he has al life long the smelt of smoke and dead people in his nose, and his dreams.
He can never forget the naced baby fixed with bajonet - knife on the door true his small mouth.
My father said as warrior CW2: Who wants to make war.. he must have it in his family with his husbend/wife EVERY DAY, till the rest of his life...
Nobody can forget that GERMAN´S TORNADOS dropped the first bomb on Belgrade after 1945.. W H Y !?? Because Hitler lost the war because of war on Balcan !?? as Historic-science said !?
this documentary was very bias..and im not surprised at all being that the maker was a Serb himself. That war had many horrors, but you cannot deny the horrific crimes serbs caused to innocent people. The many unmarked graves are an example of that, and that is why a handful of serbian army leaders have been put to trial for war crimes. So you can try to manipulate the minds of outsiders, but you cant to those who have lived and seen the war first hand.
p.s. Whenever watching any documentary, you have to take the information with a grain of salt and do an extensive research on the subject before making your mind up. Any body with a camera can shoot a documentary.
As much as you can't deny horrific crimes Serbs caused, you can't deny horrific crimes Croats and Muslims caused and the crimes that Albanians cause today.
You also can't deny that there exists a war without horrific crimes because war isn't about rules, it is about winning no matter what or how. That's how war was always through history. If the Serbs weren't the ones making atrocities, other sides would have, that's how war works, alas Serbs did the biggest numbers.
You could say that you yourself are biased against the Serbs as much as Serbs are biased against others.
You could also say that victors write history and Serbs lost so there exist more questions of what the victors have hidden of their own crimes and what they have made a mountain of where it was merely a small hill.
You could also ask the question that nobody thinks of asking or dares to ask, why did the Serbs let off Macedonians and Montenegrins without a single bullet shot or war waged? That doesn't compute with the way Serbs are painted.
Why are they in far better relations with Bulgarians and Romanians than ever before and there is no tension between them?
Rather than paint, why not question?
It is a fairly complex thing the politics of the Balkans.
The film is very accurate. I see many Croats, Muslims, Albanians and Serbs fighting on and on on many forums without understanding the simple truth that it's all orchestrated. What we see now, after almost 2 decades of the wars in Yugoslavia?
We see that nationalists in every separated republic grabbed the money through criminal privatization,
we see that no one asked any of us if we are for capitalism or socialism,
we see that Milosevic and Tudjman were co-investors and co-directors in banks on Cyprus, Austria, France and Great Britain,
we see that during war in Bosnia Arkan, the crimelord in Belgrade and warlord in Bosnia and Croatia sold weapons and ammunition to the same people he was fighting against,
we see Naser Oric, Bosnian equivalent of Arkan, the man who was attacking serbian villages around Srebrenica (supposedly demilitarized zone under UN protection) from Srebrenica and provoking Serbian action, receiving today his pension from Serbia (?!),
we now know that Oluja (Storm) was led by American retired generals working in private sector hired by CIA,
we know that Serbian exodus from Croatia was planned not only by Tudjman but with Milosevic too, as the refugees were organized not to settle in central Serbia but were sent to Kosovo and Metohia to fix the national disparity over Albanians,
we know that after WW2 the great number of Albanians settled in Serbian southern province as illegal emigrants (imagine how it would be if mexican illegal emigrants would ask for independence from USA, and those who got green card or USA citizenship learn in American schools that the capital of their country is not Washington but Mexico City)
we know that Yugoslav Army counter intelligence knew that Croats and Slovenians in the eve of war were arming illegal over civilian airports and did nothing to prevent that, in that time, anti-constitutional actions,
we have croatian generals freed in international tribunal. The serbian generals are accused; with exception of those whom were dealing with CIA agents in Belgrade and caught during the act.,
we have general feeling that Serbs were the overall aggressors in planetary proportions with the paradox that the Serbs themselves, the greatest nation in numbers in former Yugoslavia has the biggest losses in people and property,
etc, etc...
I don't believe in genocidal nations and stupidness like that. That is just silly talk. How can I hate Croats when I live in Belgrade, my aunt lives in Osijek (Croatia), her daughter lives in Novi Sad (Serbia), and her brother lives in Croatia. During the war he was on croatian army and he do not speak with his own sister because she is married to a man whose father was a Macedonian and was a professional military man in ex-Yu!?
I was in the army when war started. The croats and serbs were already fighting when my army obligation was over. Came home to Belgrade through Montenegro. My best friend, Croat from Zagreb, could not go home because everything was blocked with military activities. He came with me to belgrade, stayed for a week and took an airplane line from Belgrade to Zagreb!?
And that may be the only reality: let us just be friends and not hate anyone by default. How can someone born in after-Yu republics hate Yugoslavia or someone he has not even met?
How can one say: yeah, you had great life because you were living on credits from East and West?
Everyone can see where that money was spent, everyone can see the whole industries built from nothing in Yugoslavia. Every single republic is now in more debts than the whole ex-big country; can you see anything built? Anything! Where is that money?
The question is the answer to everything. When you target the greatest winers and losers in the situation, you will then be aware of the real reasons behind wars in Yugoslavia.
Do not be slave to stereotypes! Do not believe everything someone tells you. Nothing on this world is in black or white. As one Croatian economist recently sad a wise thing: it would be interesting that no one ever asked people in Yugoslavia or republics after if they were for the killing of socialism and social state, and import of liberal capitalism as well as criminal and immoral.
Clearly a documentary based on vague facts, totally diminishing what the root of the problem was in the Yugoslavian conflict. Portraying the serbs as victims, and the west as the culprit is plain out wrong. Causes of the war were the uprising fascism in Serbia and Croatia which allowed an AGGRESSION for 3 or so years in Bosnia, which was not even a plain out war. This was because of the fact that JNA held the complete military power. The west didnt kill the civilians in srebrenica etc they more so ALLOWED it to happen, but they did not pull the triggers themselves, killing thousands of people, the serbs did that and the croats in the middle-bosnian fascistic region; Herceg-Bosna.
Transfering blame from the serbs to the west seems to be the idea of this documentary. Hopefully people will be able to see through that.
A former Yugo, with relatives in the republics, and suffers from both the croats and serbs. There is much truth in the collective banking megastructure evil. However this is a slanted one eyed doco. Though I did enjoy it nonetheless.
This is a very good summation of the typical serbian view of the history and also explains a lot. This kind of view and the logical consequences of it (this view is a bas eof Serbian imperialism) are to blame for the '90 conflict. The serbian definition of "Yugoslavs" and "Yugoslavia" was at the core of the conflict since the beginning if the joint state after WW1. The big dissapointment of Slovenes and Croats after the imposed formation of the Serb ruled kingdom (Kingdom of SHS, later renamed kingdom of Yugoslavia) instead of a proposed republic (the unrecognised State of SHS) was ended with bloodshed in the 790 - to put it in one sentence.
To perpetuate this "international conspiracy" theory shown in this pamphlet of a film would be just slightly funny if it wasn't in reality tragic - tragic because of the fact that many if not majority of serbs still see it as true, which means they haven't learned anything from the '90 wars. And that is not a good perspective for future. Germans learned from the WW2 experience by being bombed into iron age - that helped, they are de-nazified. Serbs - it seems - haven't learned anything from loosing all the wars in former Yugoslavia, they haven't been really "de-nazified".
Is bombing someone into almost oblivion really the only solution to teach someone something?!? I hope not.
As a student as as someone who rejected Apartheid Capitalism in South Africa I looked towards Yugoslavia as an alternative model to capitalist economic and social development. I was greatly disappointed when the West systematically destroyed that country using narrow nationalism and religion as the means to do so.
The west did not destroy Yugoslavia, it destroyed itself. That country was simply not meant to be. Too many different identities forced into one.
I am a Canadian who's heritage of one side of my family goes back four generations and who's heritage on the other side of my family goes back many more generations. Long before this Nation was even discovered by other people. What this film shows me is that if only a small part of it is accurate, Canadians have a great reason for concern. That what Hungary has become today could also happen to Canada. Though we may be spared the atrocities of war like which is documented in this film, none the less we will forced to forfeit are dignity, decency and virtue as not only citizens, but as human beings, if we do not wake up before it is too late.
Our present Government has already put us deeply in debt, our purchasing power as wage earners is depleting rapidly, many of our prized industries are being sold for fractions what they are worth and then closed and our natural resources are being exported by foreign Corporations for not much more than the jobs provided to do so. They tell us to slay the deficit they need to implement austerity measures and reduce taxes to multi-national corporations so they will create new jobs. Which will put us back on the road to economic recovery.
This film does a good job of informing Canadians what the consequences of complacency or selfishness could be. If we wait until desperation sets in around us. Before we decide to do something about our growing state of ignorance and our deplorable lack of compassion for one another's unfortunate circumstances. Which are occurring more frequently every day. Although Canada is a small Country is the Global scheme of things, we do share larger border than most Countries in the world with another Country. Which just happens to be the United States. If we could rise up against the plunder of their Multi National Corporations, maybe we could inspire the working people of their own Nation to do the same. Without the military might of the United States working on their behalf. I think the elites of this world would be hard pressed continue to carry out their plans.
....'the present Canadian government entangling us in debt'? Where were you sir when this allegedly happened? Do you not recall a coalition of the left demanding that the governing party spend more to get us out of the recession? I do. And now the present governing party is trying to get us unentangled from the debt that they were blackmailed by the Left into creating! Just as Pierre Trudeau created and began the debt to begin with. From 1970 to 1980, the Liberal Gov't of Trudeau increased spending by six times!!!!!! That is to say, the debt in Canada increased sixfold thanks to Trudeau. Its people like that who need to question the Lib-Left Media that is brainwashing them. Next time try some more discrimination in what is being fed into your mind!
Thesis of the documentary: all the different ethic groups in Yugoslavia love each other and would never hurt each other but they were tricked into war by Joe Biden and George Soros because the Yugo was a threat to GM.
Not sure if this guy is blinded by nationalism or just set out to make a conspiracy theory propaganda flick.
well put :))
I will likely never understand the mess that is the first part of this film. Everyone seems to be divided in one way or another. I don't see how the west can be blamed for that. I'm not saying it isn't possible - I'm saying I don't see it.
The second half of the film is predictable. The west takes advantage of a bad situation (perhaps created by them/us but certainly made worse by them/us) and a few gain while most everyone else suffers.
You could say the US is colonizing itself in the same way.
Watching this I can't help but notice how the author is going out of his way to portray the Serbs as the victims. Conveniently avoiding any mention of the genocide and ethnic cleansing by the serbian side. Being from Bosnia myself I can verify that most of the so called "shocking facts" in this film are nothing more but made up lies.
I was hoping for a factual explanation of the war in Balkans but all we got is a fictional story that is loosely based on some truths. I just hope that people watching this that are not from that region won't take this movie too seriously.
But please, please tell us one more fable about all the good that Serbs did during the war.
What a huge pile of crap...
I hope the maker of this films purpose wasn't to defend the Serbs. I noticed sometimes he gave a fair analysis but other times he came off as biased. While I understand that all sides committed atrocities and the power plots are very believable, those atrocities can't be forgotten or completely brushed aside as petty details. While Izetbegovic may have "sacrificed" Srebrenica, there were still 5.000 civilians murdered. There is footage of Mladic strong arming UN peacekeepers, rounding up Muslims, and then executing them.
Also, some of his examples, like Srdjan intervening in a unwarranted arrest based on ethnicity, that he used to show there was still unity or compassion between the sides, also showed the opposite. While a Serb may have tried to help a Muslim out in that example, there were still 3 Serbs willing to hurt the Muslim. IDK, I'm an hour into the movie, and am having mixed feelings.
very entertaining documentary, but the this is fairytale;
why don't you try to tell this bull**** to any nonserbian citizen of ex-yu, slovenians, croats, muslims, macedonians, they will laugh at you.
facts are :
1) 99% of all military power in the eve of war was held by serbs, and they used it, it was their only argument then.
we all remember scenes of hundreds of JNA tanks in serbia going to front to croatia which were showered by tousands of flowers in belgrade and vojvodina.
2) istead of peacefull succession as in chechoslovakia, when croatia and slovenia tried to seceed, serbs initiated JNA intervention in slovenia, then armed rebellion croatia, and at the end in bosnia.
3)after 5 years of occupation, in 1995 serbian puppet states in croatia were crashed, and in bosnia were weakened enough to agree to negotiate a peace deal.
Cheap Serbian propaganda.
The author wants to show himself as a liberal but his support for Milosevic, Radikals and Chetniks fascist uncover him.
Moreover, his playing with number of victims (10 times multiplied Serb Jasenovac victims) and disrespecting Srebrenica Genocide is just disgusting.
Well seems a bit biased when talking about the Serbian side.. The war was held in Bosnian and Croatian territory, not on Serbian.. and somehow the author is trying to present the Serbs as constant victims.
In minute 54. it seems like the journalist is implying to the ppl what to say and for a second it even crossed my mind that the people might be forced to say that...
The EU, IMF and NATO theories are not far away from the truth but again, all things must be considered from different sides.. E.g. not many ppl are even aware of a country such as Albania, and cannot have an opinion about it.
Anyways I wish all these nations were smarter or louder! It is so weird to see how a powerful nation can drop so low..
People these r fake wars planned or allowed to happen. Maybe yrs ago there was real reasons 2 fight but not now. With our technology we can all live like kings and be happy. Today if life sucks it's on purpose 2 keep u down while they consolidate Global Power. We all are being set up by our Gov't & the elite. They r programming us 2 hate blame & kill each other. Dont u see the writing on the wall they are toppling their own Govt in the US 4 NWO! How can u hate each other when we are all computers (fact) being fed faulty code by our programmers (the elite) blaming each other while they cause these problems by manipulation. Think yrs ago 1 person supported 5 we R 1000 X'S efficent now with 2 working we're broke Y. How by printing paper backed by nothing which they keep scarce to control u. THINK tons of resources and things 2 B done but not enough pieces of paper? WAKE UP READ UP ON WHAT I SAID THEN REALIZE WHO IS HUMANITES REAL ENEMY SO WE CAN FIX THIS WORLD B4 IT'S 2 LATE!!! PLEASE READ UP ON THIS!!!
more history lessons for Serbs, esspecally for neman_ja
1.Croats and Serbs didn't have any major conflicts until the WW1 which was caused by serbian goverment through organization Black Hand(Gavrillo was in it). Although it was not only their fault they were the trigger for all events afterwards. Croats being in austohungarian union did not enjoy good political status and most of them went to something what was called Green Units(people who went to hideing to hide from austrohungarians goverment to avoid enlistment) cause there was large proYu sentiment in Crotia at that time. After the WW1 when major powers started carving austrohungary we felt threatend from Italy and Hungary and went foolishly into union with Serbs expecting union in which all would be same but unfortunately what they got was dictatorship and hegemony from Serbian goverment and king in which any hint of anything proCroatian was eliminated immediatly which resulted in killing of 2 Croatian representatives, brothers Radi?, in parliament(which was witnessed by Ante Paveli? who was also in parliament after which he went to Italy to form Ustashe).Imagine how bad it was when Nazis was hailed as liberators, but luckily not for long(same as ukranian people for russians). Not until year and half before the war situation got better and for short time things were good...
2.After the king of Yugoslavia signed the treaty with Nazis and mass protestagainst it(orcastreted by british secret services) hitler went for destruction of Yugoslavia. fist he occupied serbia( Belgrade fell by 5 german soldiers and their trick, you can read about it on wikipedia) which fell without fired bullet. Then he went to croatian representative Vlatko Ma?ek and offered him leadership role in new Croat state which he refused beliveing that allies will win. After that he brought Ante Paveli? and ustashe who then started polices of mass murdering of serbs(as retribution, still not rightfull) and non aryans(germans request, not inherited hate towards jews and gypsies). luckily Croats realized soon what was the price of the state and started to rebel in less of a month after the NDH was formed( fist riseing in europe at all in sisak), four months beofre "rebel" draža mihajlovi?(fashicst who collaborated with nazis and even ustashe) even started to plan "rebellion". people started joining partizans(serbs mostly joined in partizans because royal army did nothing to prevent killings of serbs by ustashe) cleargy joined in resistance(Alojzije Stepinac being the first one, given the righteous among nations award by Israel saved many serbs jews and gypsies). No one in his right mind in Croatia denies crimes of ustashe and that million jews,gypsies and serbs(60% serbs)got killed but what you are deniying is overwhelming croat resistance against nazis and ustashe, that croats also died in death camps and that in aftermath of war revenge rampage of partizans that million croats but not the leaders of ustashe but regular people(wimen,children and old people) and regular army(conscripted by law not by will) got killed while most responsible people got away(Paveli? takeing state resrves of gold and ran off to Argentina) and that leadership in Belgrade did nothing for serbs in NDH and that they collaborated with nazis which resulted in serbia being the first jew free country in the world.
i feel sorry for serbian people cause they are victims of diseased system and propaganda for last 100 years. Their thought that they are superior in balkans and only legitimate leaders of balkan has brought them nothing but misery to them and their neighbours. We are neighbours and i hope we will live in peace for next millenia, not in union cause it has been proven that we simply can't go together beacuse of your wish to dominate and deny others culture or to claim it as yours but in coexistance with mutual respect. Lately i fear that might be false looking at radicalization of scene in Serbia(Nikoli? Da?i? Jeremi?) and continous denial of people to accept facts of history which has already costed them kosovo and posslibly soon enough vojvodina and sandžak. i fear the only reason we are not in war with serbia is because it has no military, economical and international advantage over us. Hope will be proven wrong and that we will look at this period of 100 years as some stupid misunderstanding and be able to live in peace
if humanity is ever to evolve, we should step BACK to similar system like it was in yugoslavia, and only then, from that system, we should try to find a better one... the one completely different from capitalism! the quality of life as it was in yugoslavia during 70's and 80's is unprecedented, and i'm afraid, it will pass many decades, even centuries before something similar should happen under the sun on this planet...
You Croats are so easy on accusing Serbs and you don't even want to look in your own backyard... That's understandable, knowing what your grandfathers did... You are ashamed of your history, putting it under the carpet and looking in the other direction...
A little history reminder for all the people there, especially Croats:
Croatians was always CHOOSING the side against Serbs. You hate us from the bottom of your guts, and that seems to be in your blood for generations.
Facts:
-When Austro-Hungarians came, Croats went into the union with them (Germanic people), and went into the war against Serbia (Slavic people, the same as Croats). When Serbia defeated Austrohungaria, Serbian army came all the way up to the Slovenia, not to conquer Croatia, (and we could have done that easily in that time, and you wouldn't be hearing today about Yugoslavia between the two world wars, because the name of that country would be Serbia). Instead, we accepted Croatia as a country, and made a joint state of Slavic people, called Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenians.
-Serbs made a big mistake then, hoping that we could all live together, but only 20 years later it showed as complete disaster. I'll get to that... What we should have done then, was to draw a border everywhere where Serbs were the majority (around one third of todays Croatia, and most of the todays Bosnia), and call that country simply, Serbia. Knowing now what have happened to the Serbs in Croatia (600,000 killed in the death camp Jasenovac, 250,000 expelled from their homes, and many, many more killings and tortures), we had a complete legitimate right to do that, that is, to protect our people there.
-Croatia was on the side of the aggressors in WWI, and came out of that easily... Better than Germans, Austrians, and Hungarians together!! That was the biggest mistake for Serbia, that will backfire to us in all the wars that occurred after. And our people suffered the most...
WWII - Germans came... Did Croatians fought them... Don't be silly! Croatians never fought anybody except Serbs, Jews, and Gypsies. All others they welcomed to their country, and immediately started lowering the number of Serbs in it...
-The same happened when Germans came. There are reports of Italian and German solders, and even Gestapo reports to Hitler of some of the crimes, killings, and tortures that Croats were doing to Serbs!!!
There were over 20 death camps in Croatia (Jasenovac being the worst, with over 600,000 people killed there!!), making the Croats the most genocidal people in Europe, after the Germans. It's funny (not haha funny) how often Croats are using this word to describe Serbs. Hypocrites... If you are a Croat reading this, you should be ashamed of yourself, and your bloodbath country!
-But again, Serbs defeated Germans... After that, Serbia had a right (from France, England, USA, and Russia) to destroy Croatia and take most of its territory, the same as Americans and Russians did to Germany.
And did we went to Croatia to conquer them all? No!
Did we even draw a border around our people to protect them from Croats? No!
-Again, we made a union with our "blood brothers", making a Yugoslavia, which was a respected country in the world, and a good example that Slavic people should have lived together in the same country from the beginning. Communistic leaders, and Tito (who was a Croat), did their best to cover up all the crimes that Croats did to Serbs, with the excuse "to preserve a multinational country together".
-And again, Croats, as an aggressors in WWII, came out clean veeery easily... ..
'90 came... In short, Germany and USA offered Croatia independence, they took it. But this time, Serbia, knowing what sufferings our people had in the past whenever Croatia was independent country, said, if you take independence from Yugoslavia, then Serbs will take independence from Croatia.
-Croatia had their backs covered (USA and Germany), so for them, negotiations weren't necessary. Serbia had to try to defend their own people, and if there wasn't USA involved, we would have done it easily. -However, history showed us that whenever Croats got some big country behind their backs, they used that power to lower the number of Serbs in Croatia. This time, they almost got Serbs to extinction! There are recordings of their president Tudjamn saying that, their object of the war is to get Serbs to 3-4% of the population, which he did. Before that, there were around 18% Serbs in Croatia....
Something is not right here... Serbs should be the genocidal people, how?
Serbs NEVER wanted to take territory that does not belong to them! We were NEVER the aggressors in any war!
-Back in the 14th century, Serbs had an offer from Turks to get to the union whit them, and go attacking the Europe together! We refused to attack anybody, so Turks attacked us. That war we had against Turks, protected Austro-hungaria, and eventually Germany and Europe from Ottoman Empire...
-When we finally got the strength to free ourselfs from the Turks, we did that whit so much power, that we pushed them out of the whole Europe, freeing also Greece, and Bulgaria from Turks. Did we took one meter of their country? No! We left their borders untouched, even though we had our army there, and was stronger of each one of them...
Serbia never went to a conquer war! Not once! All we did, was defending our country, and we should have protected our people out of our country better! Especially in Croatia, where they suffered the most...
That's why, my fellow Croats, I am a proud Serb!
That's why, my fellow Croats, you should be ashamed of your origin, your history, and your country!
And finally, that's why I would always say "No!" to any kind of the future union between Serbia and Croatia... Who can make a guaranty to me, that you wouldn't stab us in the back again... Who can make a guaranty to me, that you would not use the next opportunity to kill all what's left of the Serbs there...
We would have been better together... We would have been stronger... If you weren't such a rotten people...
Wow neman you have a lot of hate in your heart, you asked a question and I presented a possible answer. This is the EXACT reason there is so much conflict between the slav's, everybody wears their rose coloured glasses. I am well aware of the atrocities my ancestors have commited, not only to serbs but also to the muslims. But maybe you should read other literature than serbian propaganda, your people are not the saints you paint them to be and when we can sit and be honest about our past, there is no chance for peace (I should make it clear I mean the process will fail).
I am not going to lower myself and get into name calling, but I will defend myself. I am not rotten in any way, I try to live a honest life and am good to everyone. I try to never judge, I have friends of all walks of life and this includes serbs. So this totally blows your theory!!!
When I said war is a funny thing not haha, you have taken my meaning incorrectly, I meant strange. War is not fought by faceless men and women it is between dimitar and Iljko who had rakia last week together.
Dont be angry about NEMANJA
He is full of hatred beacouse general Gotovina is foun innocent by haag.
Lots of serbs are,imagine how angry they will be when real killers,like mladic,seselj and karadjic get life sentences.They will spit their guts then
Cant wait to see them cry
And the Croats are all innocent, aren't they? Oh, I see: For the West, they are always "sons-of-the-bitch, but they're still our sons-of-the-bitch" ;-)
Some animals are definitely more equal than the others...
No man,you are putting your words in my mouth.
There were people on Croatian side who did crimes and they were persecuted.like Norac,Glavas and Mercep.And as a Croat i am glad that they were judged...
I sit here with a big smile on my face because my people have made me proud.
Croatia salutes you,Australia
And you should be proud
Why? Because we allowed Josip Simunic and his family to live here under the guise of being new Australians? No room for Ustase here mate.
I never approved what ustase did.No room for ustase anywhere in civilized
World.I am Croat living in Croatia and I am ashamed of what Josip did.
same old story about poor lil' endangered serbs... budi ponosan a ne pi?kica, sramotiš prave srbe
Are you joking? Its always the poor Kosovars or the poor Bosnian muslims. Sick of hearing how the serbs did this and that while everyone else was innocent. The sooner everyone takes some responsibility the sooner the Balkans can move forward and start to make some money of the amazing history and places of natural beauty that make this area something special.
I have not watched the doc, and don't think I will be able too, but I did read the blurb above.
I am australian born and my parents are Croatian (Stupe Bosnia) immigrating to Australia in 1966 for a "better life". I am pleased that the author "Boris Malagurski" had such a awesome childhood in Yugoslavia, but unfortunately this isn't the case for most cro's. My parents experience is very different form the authors they and most of their friends FLED former Yugoslavia for reasons like no jobs, police/army brutality, expensive and poor living conditions.
As a young child back in 1978/79 we went back to Yugoslavia on holidays, a few things stuck in my head, one of those things that stuck was my aunty telling my mum of people "disappearing" that opposed the government at that time, they quickly stopped talking about it because my aunty was very scared saying "even the wall have ears".
I have heard that life in croatia today is hard, but I haven't been back so I don't really know. I recommend highly having a chat to the older gen. as I did and the stories my parents have told me about their lives, I am sure no-one would believe.
Mainly what has happened? We are all full of hate, despise each other and instead of trading with each other we are playing the "blame game".
"We are better than them" and "it their fault syndrome" are old bagages that need to be put down. We HAVE to move forwards and re-integrate. All of you advocating hate & blame are sheep. The French have invented nationalism in the 100 year war with England, because they ran out of money and needed to get more (money & sacrifice) out of their population.
Great invention to take advantage of stupid people.
documentary is full of lies and i would like to go over some major ones
1. Ex-Yu did not break up because of EU or USA. It started crumbling in 80s when after decades of marshall plan aid and big loans of USA to sustain Yu economy which was unsustainable and after party leaders made bad economical decisions like investing in failing companies whoose products didn't got sold(car yugo being the first one) US said screw you guys give us back our money you are not managing it well. Then people started getting fired and everybody started looking how many money is each state makeing. Croatia( source of biggest foreign currency inflow to yugoslavia) and Slovenia( country closest to EU in yugoslavia) were makeing more money and had very little representation in governance of that money and serbia being the main economy issuse country next to Kosovo( controlled from belgrade) wanted more control over economy. When Kosovo, Slovenia and Croatia wanted to govern their own economy Serbia went full agressive on them which resulted in their declerations of indenpendences(in both countries more then 95% of population declared their will for indenpendence on referendum) which they had right under the constituion of yugoslavia if the felt threat from either external or internal enemy(in this case the state of yugoslavia itself was a threat). It was the serbian wish to dominate yugoslavia that broke it up
2. Comparing Franjo Tu?man and Slobodan Miloševi? as same is ridicolous. One was educated historian and youngest genral in JNA and other was cocky banker. One wanted prosperity and freedom for his country other wanted control over entire yugoslavia. One did not kill journalists, banned the news, killed political opponents other did it all. One did not plan genocide( we'll get to operation Storm and Brijuni soon enugh) other did. One held elections even during the war other did not wan't even to accept it's own peoples will even during the wild rioting over the capital. Need more?
3.Operation Storm was legitimate action of internationally recognized state to get to it's recognized borders which was set in motion after serbs hav refused any agreement which would recognize croatia in its borders and even after USA has offered them state in state (they would have their own flag, own taxes, own currency, own president own goverment but formally be in Croatia) and after Srebrenica happend international community gave green light for action to change the tactical stuation there and to prevent the attack on Biha? which was to have the same fate as Srebrenica. Operation was done on area of 10400 square kilometers from which 200 000 croats were driven out and during the operation civilian casualties were minimal nad collateral and no ethnic cleansing was done by croat army(how can they ethnicly cleans if there is no population to be cleansed and those who stayed during operation no harm wasdone to them). Most crimes happend after the families of thoose 200 000 croats started coming back and started rage revenges for killed relatives and destroyed homes
but numbers are still low( croatian helsinki commitee 680 serbian casusalties, ICTY number is 328) if you take in consideration the area of action(srebrenica one town 5000-8000 killed in 3 days, operation storm lasted 7 days) and most of it happend in aftermath of action(period of one month after operation). 90% of thoose crimes have been prosecuted, being prosucuted or will be in near future by Croatian goverment. About 200 000 serbs who left, left by command of their own leadership(many testimonies can be found on internet) even after croatian goverment said many time to them to stay, that these are also their lands and that Croatia is also their country(check the returned refugee statistics in all ex yu countries and compare who has the most, hint:Croatia). The plan of serbian goverment was to create crisis so they can have legitimate right to enter in to war with Croatia and BIH(which was never offically decleared because of reparations but thats whole other story) but luckily( or not some will say) USA halted all operations in BIH an went for dayton peace accord
4.Brijuni meeting was military meeting about operation and anybody who has read or heard entire transcript of meeting would know that serbs about whom Franjo Tu?man is speaking are military of serbian krajina and that there is no mention of civilians anywhere in context of targets, and the sntencen where he says that when civilians will go then the army will go which is good was after the talk of casualties in which general said that if civilians start to evacuate the army will sure follow so we'll have low military casualties and there will be low civilian casualties after Franjo Tu?an say yea that would be good. So not ok to civilians getting out of Croatia but ok to low casualties. Read before the transcript before attacking
5.I have to tackle debt issue. The reason the debt has jumped was that finally citizen could get loans from private banks and not only state loans. so loans he is representing are combained debts of citizens(as private persons)+the state+direct investments not just the debt of state. Debt of yougoslavia was 16-18 bil dollars and there are no private debts in it which makes it then very big debt, Croatia today has 4 bil debt and it can repay it, yugoslavia could not
all and all very bias documentary. I am Croat, sure you can also accuse me for bias but just check the facts, the timeline and the numbers. this documentary had alot more lies for just one post hope nobody who is not from this parts buys this BS...
Some facts, with a lots of BS around.
From Tudjman's Brioni transcripts, recordings are available on YT. Operation Oluja (Storm) was logistically supported by US generals privately employed by CIA.
"Later in the meeting, Tuđman
returned to this issue and stressed that it was important to leave a way out for the
civilians, because the army would follow them, and “when the columns set out, they
will have a psychological impact on each other”. Gotovina then added that a large
number of civilians were already evacuating Knin and if Croatian forces continued to
exert pressure, the only civilians left would be those with no possibility of leaving.
When discussing the issue of propaganda, Miroslav Tuđman proposed to broadcast via
radio which routes were open to pull out whereupon Franjo Tuđman suggested to
formulate it in the way that civilians were already pulling out, using certain routes.
Šušak proposed that after the first day of operation, Croatia should drop leaflets
indicating which routes could be used to pull out and that they should be formulated in a
way that would increase the level of confusion. Tuđman again stressed that the message
should be that Serbs were already withdrawing and added that they should also make an
appeal to the remaining ones not to withdraw, “so in that way, to give them a road,
while ostensibly guaranteeing them civil rights, etc.”
1992. As seen above, both Tuđman (in some of his statements) and Gotovina referred
explicitly to Serb civilians. Tuđman further speaks about “ostensibly guaranteeing […]
civil rights” which the Trial Chamber finds to be a reference to Serb civilians, rather
than Serb military forces. The Trial Chamber considered that, because of the language
used when this matter was discussed by the participants at the meeting, it did refer, if
not exclusively then primarily to Serb civilians. In conclusion, the Trial Chamber finds
that the participants, including Gotovina, were discussing how to provide the Serb
civilians in Knin and elsewhere a way out during the military attack."
5. BS again. What's the difference, when you get a loan what do you care who gave it to you, private or state bank?
People were buying flats, houses, cars... , with lower interest rates than from private banks later.
The destruction of Yugoslavia is one of the many crimes of NATO led by US imperialism. It is that simple. Everything else is a mere detail
Thanks but I do not regard myself as smarter than anybody else. I do like to communicate and discus a lot, but my intention was to try to say to people from former YU that it is time to heal the wounds and turn to ourselfs and to find out what is it in everybody of us that can make us bad or good. And evrybody of us is capable of doing really bad but also and very good things. I think that mental enviroment (state of mind of some collective) will lead you in doing even something you did not think you are capable of. So my message to Serbs and Croats will be to go deep inside the their head and find out what is the problem that could triger bad doing. From my opinion I think that Croatian state of mind has a problem with selfasteem because through the history we allways tried to prove ourselfs to "big western nations" and we did it by giving ourselfs to them (Austiohungarian, Germany and now NATO and EU) and we thought that was in our interest. As some of the Croatian solders fought for Germans in Stalingrad and thought they are defending Europe now we are in NATO and aour solders are in Afganistan thinking they are protecting EU and democracy from some made up terrorists. So taht is our mental problem - we regard ourself small and then we prove ourselfs in a way to do bad jobs for somebody else. We have to see this before we as a nation can heal and change our mental enviroment. I was thinking about Serbia and my guess is that a lot of problems arise from lost war with Turks which leave a mental scarve which creates a need to prove themselfs through beeing "strong and tough". And thats maybe why Serbs like going into army and maybe are lets say trigger happy. Serbia also need to go through this and learn through this war about their bad deeds (not to say somebody else is guilty) and than the healing process will begin. But there is another problem it seems to me like something does not want Serbia to go through this process.
Ok now I am too far from your question about Serbs leaving from Krajina region. To go back there I could say - yes you are right that it was systematic but only because Krajina goverment and army orcestrated it. First of all let me tell you that I am sorry about victims of any kind (and I will say that I feel sorry for the one who victimise also because they stained ther souls). I do not know what is your sorce of info for this war but this are my informations which I could find through Serbian and Croatian sources: there were plans of evacuation of all civil and military people from Krajina long before Oluja started. This plans were even trained and people were systematicaly brainwashed about ustašas will come and slauther you if you stay. Croatian military knew about this and exploited it very much - they left them the corridors through which they will flee. Thats way it was over very fast - because you can not defend empty cities and so called Krajina army did not have the chance. I even found some info that it was arranged between Miloševi? and Tu?man but it was only a hint on some Serbian documentary..so I am not quite sure. But I am sure this people in Krajina were manipulated and were used by Miloševi?.
I am dissappointed with this documentary because it is too biased. I am a Croat from Zagreb and I lived this war from the inside and now with this time distance I would like to find the real reasons for the wars. I also found out something wrong with mainstream stories and when I look back you could clearly see that neither yougoslav country profited from this war - but EU and USA did and will profit from it. And that is were I agree with the author and I thought that he will have some more info and facts about that (facts about CIA and MI5 involvment). Instead we got Serbs are not so guilty, everybody is guilty and a lot of let say superficial historic stories. We should all try to seek were did we as a nation go wrong and my personal thinking is that we all heard what we wanted to hear and that made us easy targets for outside black ops. But we are to blaim because they brought the worst in us. The Serbs were majority in former YU and when everybody started talking that this will change and that all the Croats are Ustašas and they are to blame they liked it and willingly went to war. And a lot of them did the war crimes because of the mental climate in Serbia where even the TV gave istructions through Šešelj how to do that. Croats heard that they will get independent country which is something we wanted to hear for a long time and they told us that Serbs wont let us do that. And yes we willingly blamed Serbs for that and when the hell broke loose we saw Chetniks and YU army tanks (which we thought were ours too) destroying our cities and now there weren't coming back. There were of course Croat crimes but they still look to me as issolated incidents and from Chetniks and YU army crimes look to me as sistematic. Could it be smarter played - yes I think that with a little more smarter politics in Croatia at that time we could have more Serbian villages not rebeling but that would not stop Miloševi? tenks but maybe then more of the Serbian people would see where all of this is going and maybe they would not wave to tanks but stop them. And that is way propaganda is important - it feeds one another, and when you start the avalanche there is not coming back...and no particular snowflake thinks it is to blame. What we all had to do? Thats the ml dollar question...maybe we just had to turn the TV off and there would not be hate any more.
It looks like you are a smart person, thinking why it all happened, and not happy whit the answers we get... I don't fully agree with you, but it's always good to hear other side of the story.
But I have one Big problem with something you said!
Qoute:
"There were of course Croat crimes but they still look to me as issolated incidents and from Chetniks and YU army crimes look to me as sistematic."
I need you now, as a Croat, to explain me how do you see Operation "Oluja", where over 250,000 people where expelled by guns from their homes in Croatia, only because they were Serbs?
Does that looks to you as a sistematic ethnic cleansing?
Before the war, Serbs were around 18% of the population in Croatia. After the war, there were only 4% of Serbs in Croatia.
Does that looks to you as a sistematic ethnic cleansing, or as an isolated crime?
NEMAN_ja: I need you now, as a Croat, to explain me how do you see Operation "Oluja", where over 250,000 people where expelled by guns from their homes in Croatia, only because they were Serbs?
That is not the truth.No one expelled 250 000 people!!
They were asked repitedly to stay in their homes and that nothing will happend to them.
They choose to bellive milosevic and run out the Croatia even before action Oluja started.
So when you say that General Gotovina chased them out,you are simply laying
I have a friend that was living in croatia when the war started. Their town was taken over by the serbian people living in the village, they were chased out of their homes, yep that is right, croatians beings chased out of croatia. Maybe they were trying to prevent this from happening again. I don't know??? Maybe.
War is a funny thing (not haha funny), the people defending and fighting are usually neighbours.
what is really sad in this story is the fact that we are not neighbours but brothers, we are the same nation, only divided by the church split back in AD 1054
Can you ever see things going back to the way things were 1000 years ago???? I think far too much blood has been spilt (on both sides).
unfortunate for you but science has proven you wrong. There were two genetic studies in period of 2 years ago. First one was done in Stanford university(you can find it on pubmed, haploid y chrmosome in southeast europe) which has proven that Croats and Serbs are two diffrent genetic groups(two diffrent nations) and that our gene pool goes back in times of cold age(which means our ancestors came during the ice age in theese parts) and that serbs have predominatly slav gene pool. Second one was done in vancouver and has shown also our genetic ancestry(beggining of second half of ice age) and that our gene pool is dominant in Croatia, parts of BiH(mostly herzegovina and west bosnia), and most of Montenegro(!!!). Politicly theese studies don't have any merrit, nor will it improve status of croats in BiH or suddenly make montenegrians to join in with Croatia but as information it sheds new light on "brotherhood and unity" myths and hystoric events of last millenia...
I did not see the movie as pro-serbian. I saw it as anti-western-corporational-idiots who found a new way to enslave people arround the world. the new way is called kapitalism.
Tremendously interesting video on Yugoslavian truth!
funny how most of the comments are saying that this doc is bs. ...but NONE of them actually lived in Yugoslavia at that time and the time before the war. keep believing US propaganda. don't say its bs, give examples please of misinformation in this doc. People hate America in Europe (for that matter everywhere) guess why?
i lived there through the war, everyone in my family that stayed in Bosnia and Herzegovina fought for their lives. this documentary is embarrassingly moronic and complete disinformation, and F you!
What a load of bulls*it! This is the most bias documentary I've seen in a while.
I'm from former Yugoslavia now Serbia and this documentary is very accurate!
yeah but you're serbian and all the people that like your comment are serbian.. it's not surprising that you find serbian propaganda very accurate.. :/
this doc should be filed under conspiracy.
and talk faster this documentary moves way to slow.
I will tell you only this;I am Croat,who lived both,in Yugoslavia and now in Croatia.We all lived better in Yugoslavia than now.
It is truth that social rights were better then.Everybody had a job,social rights,crime rate was so low that people now cant even comprehend that,so to say,there was no crime.You just was not aloud to express your nationalism.
And looking back from today,that was a good thing.When those who wanted war spred nationalism,killing and slaughtering started.
We had a saying then:f... the countrey who doesnt have Bosnia.
And look at Bosnia today.
In Croatia,today, corruption is at the top,even our primeminister is convicted for 10 years in jail...
Unemployment rises,and i imagine in Serbia things are even worst.
I think that foreign factors played its roll i destroying Yugoalavia.
Sorry for my bad english,i learned it on TV :))
Greetings from Croatia
Sorry for my bad English too. I am Serb that was born in Croatia, and now lives in Serbia. I remebered my chilhood in Croatia, that was messed up, not by my own people or our people if you prefer, but western guys that destroyed beutiful country soon after... I Can totaly agree with you... :-D Greetings from Serbia.
P.S. There are some true facts, but the guy with comments below is true believer of the story made up on television. They just wanted to spread hate between people and thay actualy managed to do so...
Thank you for sharing with us, my Croat friend... let's look more to what we have in common, honestly and freshly, than raging hatred and blame in an endless cycle as the voices above have. I know many people from the region, Serbs, Croats, Slovenes, Bosnians, Montenegrins, who don't give a damn who you are or where you are from, because they see each other not as 'croat' or 'serb' but as fellow human beings (despite the tragedy of history). This is very true in the arts, I work with people from all over former Yugoslavia, who respect each other and don't judge each other on such superficial levels. I know many good people out there, the voices above are not a fair representation of all the people of former Yugoslavia. It's just that they seem to shout the loudest. Many individuals are never heard.
From your neighbour, a Serb.
Good one, prostorija !
fair comment, but i can sense that you have not been informed by your family members (probably because you fled early and your family got on with their lives in another country, which is fine. But if you do get the time, I will recommend a very informative documentary called "The Break up of Yugoslavia" by the BBC. I was in the war as a child and after the war I couldn't quite fit all the information I was given to by my parents and uncles who fought in the war, until i watched this documentary, things all fell into place.
Thinking people in Yugoslavia are good people might be positive optimism but its also good to be realistic and realise how many horrible people live in the former Yugoslavian countries. This documentary makes complete sense its logical- who would know more about the politics of the war then Izetbegovic, Tudman and Milosevic.... of whom are all interviewed in this documentary before their deaths
Still live in Croatia and i was here during the war,also as a child.I'm well informed about life in Yugoslavia so your sence is wrong.
It was the best country in the world,not like any other comunist country only we didn't realise that than.We see it now,but now it's too late.
And yes,many horrible people live here,but also many good people.Just like in any other country in the world.
ok great you think it was better and yeah it was better during the 70's and 80's, but you talk about it almost like you don't understand why it broke up as if you're oblivious to the causes and to the brutality that evoked.. do you honestly think that 5 nations would seek succession if things were going to be "better" the way they were going. In retrospect, I cant consider the serbs as brothers, after what they did to my nation and the way they speak about it now, it truly amazes/sickens me. so many bosniaks trusted the serbs before the war only to be stabbed in the back.. (not saying all serbs are like this, but too many) BiH would have been a serbian puppet state if we decided to stay (with out Slovenia and Croatia) but 99.7% voted for independence.
the "serbian bias" is kind of to be expected, the guy who did the doc is a serb who obviously "came of age" during the turmoil of the war. i'd hardly expect spike lee to make a film that casts the southern slave-master in a kind light ( a comparison made apt only by the youthful propaganda exposure of malagurski). i also tend to view his serb-apologetics as compensation for the complete demonization they received in the western media and historical narrative. i dont hear so much "we were justified", as much as "it was a bloody civil war, with all interests sinking to moral low ground in the quest for power".
From a Serbian point of view? The guy is Serbian so it`s pretty natural. The bottom line is that ordinary people (say 70%) were better off as citizens of socialist Yugoslavia then they are now, same where I come from. And I`m not a pro-left, however weird it may sound.
This was a very complicated series of accusations and some facts that was truly difficult for me to understand after one viewing.
I suggest to others who might not know about the history, social issues, cultures and economic past of Yugoslavia do some research first before watching this video. The doc moved way to quickly for me to grasp all the implications of the changes that happened there in just the past twenty years.
I subsequently googled the many wikipedia and other articles relating to the subject, but I still have much to understand and digest before I could ever opine about the outside influences on the former country.
I agree with many here that a certain Serbian bias exists in this doc. But what really gets me is how Yugoslavians in general seem to understand and are so willing to just be heard. Perhaps they could have stay united...as they seem much more united than many of the US States are.
The manifest destiny, corporatism, greed and corruption issues do stick out loud and clear. I just have to figure out whether it's the inhabitants fault, the invaders fault, or a combination of both.
One thing that I am certain of is that much more that 47% of US citizens know nothing about this. Also, perhaps 98% of US citizens don't.
I loved the joke about what democracy is...I'm up here and you're down there as we piss toward each other.
I'll watch this a few more times no doubt.
Lastly, my current emotions after watching this are similar to the same ones I had after watch Catastroika, but that was much easier to follow.
i agree with you, it goes too fast even for us who know the subject quite well... however, the part about american/international influence is not biased at all, like many times before in history of south slaves, corruption came from abroad...
a pro serbian documentary made by a serbian guy. nothing wrong with that, as most documentaries are are biassed. Just not the way I , and probably the rest of the world agrees with these "facts".
i expected more as it claims to be a documentary,sadly its very pro-serbian.the main reason for the breakup of yugoslavia was that there were no yugoslavs but diferent nations seeking more independence from the strongest nation,the serbs.
Nationalistic and shallow crap from someone obviously confused and in love with Michael Moore...
and you must be in love with charlton heston?
I enjoyed listening to this while i was on Photoshop, Very interesting.
Watched this a few times as i show it visotors that dont live in post yougoslavian country. Finaly, the documentary is very good and clears some fog. But i think it is a little bit pro-serbian :)
powerful documentary