WACO: A New Revelation
According to the agency, there were three of four video cameras pointing at the front door that could tell you everything that happened at the front door of that building that day. They claim they can't find a single one of them. Every one of those videotapes vanished. Waco: A New Revelation is the film that triggered a new Congressional investigation of the Waco tragedy, and caused the Justice Department and the FBI to reverse their long-held positions on Waco. It has generated a firestorm of events unprecedented in the history of documentary filmmaking.
After six years of painstaking investigation, the complete story of the tragedy in Texas is finally coming to light. This compelling feature-length documentary presents new revelations about the events that led up to the deaths of 79 men, women and children at Mount Carmel on April 19, 1993.
In the spring of 1998, under the Freedom of Information Act, investigators from MGA Studio's film division became the first private citizens to gain access to the Waco investigation evidence lockers. What they found was shocking. Upon examination, the evidence gathered under the supervision of federal officials appeared to contradict the FBI's congressional testimony, raising serious and disturbing questions about events surrounding the siege at Mt. Carmel and the deaths of the Davidians. Gene CullenSince 1993, former members of the FBI, former Special Forces and CIA operatives have come forward with new evidence to suggest that the FBI's claim is inaccurate.
FBI and ATF need to be brought to justice.
And? How come nothing came from this new evidence? Was that shoved under the rug, too?
How they can see obvious gunfire and blame it on sunlight, or whatever they said, is one of the most stupidest things I’ve ever heard. Congress blatantly ignored their eyes and let ***holes lie to them.
Our government actually used our own military against its own citizens!! That’s a crime but I’m not shocked it happened under the Clinton administration. Hell, he was probably high on coke when he gave the orders, f**king druggy.
And the judge, what he did — that really pisses me off.
But sure, the government was absolutely behind this, but they totally had nothing to do with the Oklahoma City bombing or 9/11. Nope. Bush and Cheney testified in secret behind closed doors without being placed under oath and with no video or audio recordings and the 9/11 Commissioners weren’t allowed to take notes all because they had absolutely nothing to hide. It’s totally normal to insist on complete secrecy when you claim you have nothing to hide.
They murdered those people .
As I was really small when this happened I had never heard about it, but after reading chapter 3 in "The Boy who was raised as a Dog" I got very interested in the topic. For all of those who believe maybe most about David was made up by the FBI, just as an excuse to open fire, I really reccommend you to have a look at that book. It really might help you see things through.
So anybody that believes the government had the right to do this, probably also voted for Hillary in the last election. The Clinton's were in power when this all went down. They messed up on this, but to do a right to cover up a bad, what do they do. You blow up a building with FBI and children in it. So they took a pawn to do it, catch him, seclude him and then execute him. Dirty deed covered up. Now government has more power and Waco and Oklahoma bombing where just religious fanatics. Beware of your government and keep guns and ammo close at hand because there will be a day you will need them to protect yourself.
This makes me physically ill. Nothing but money grubbing murderers and the media is not that much different. I only hope you all involved in this evil spend every moment of your life in misery.
I remember seeing this unfold in all of it's horror, live on my TV screen. I remember crying as I watched the buildings burn and I could hear myself saying "NO", over and over again.
People are so stupid. They have you thinking there is a God. Do you ever wonder why every body believes difrently about religion's. Becouse they are tought their religion, stupid people. Or just scared to realise there might not be anything after this life! Religion like all their games is a way to control us. Please, most are adults with your own minds, please start using them.
Great compilation of the event. Why has the press not done anything like this?
I followed this tradegy from South Africa as it featured on television and I remember what South Africa was going through at the time.Who could have thought that the standoff would end the way it did.It has stuck with me and I feel sad that these things happen in our world.The truth will always out in the end...always....bless you all and again thanks for a thought provoking doccy...
As I tried to point out on other sites but since all MEDIA including Social Media, are all IN IT together, by in it, I mean, as a GLOBAL ESTABLISHMENT Against Mr. Trump. But, if you look at what really happened TO the Branch Davidians, Ruby Ridge, Bundy Ranch, & then All the BODIES, & Victims, All the Common Denominators, Tentacles of CORRUPTION & Extreme WEALTH, All Connected, All Collectively Against the ONE MAN Who Truly wants to DRAIN THE SWAMP that IS DC, & the ESTABLISHMENT..HE Also knows, the TENTACLES of Corruption, Lies & Again, EXTREME WEALTH, are all TIED, ALL CONNECTED, & yes, IF Hitlery GETS Propped Up as the NEXT GLOBAL PUPPET, what happened to those Branch Davidians, Ruby Ridge, & Bundy by BLM? Will Look like a Fairy Tale, & won't even be the Top of the WORST CRIMES, Not after THEY ARE ALL DONE..Destroying what IS LEFT of Our Country, & the Rest of the GLOBE actually. What Country is LEFT?? & Come on, There is NO Level OF GOV. Or Agency or DEPT. that IS NOT CORRUPT..or Wrapped with those Tentacles of Corruption, Wealth, & Lies that CONTROL Everything. I MEAN..EVERYTHING..Fact is, It's not just OUR Nation that will Continue to DECLINE..However, WE WERE THE BIG PRIZE..NO Doubt. I'm just trying to say, if you look at all that's been done, all they've gotten away with, ALL were TESTS, to see exactly HOW MUCH They COULD DO, How they could USE the MEDIA, & Just LIE after LIE, after LIE. They know, how to DIVERT, DIVIDE, & what comes next? CONQUER. Because they've Intentionally WEAKENED everything. They BROKE US Literally..in EVERY WAY. The MASSES follow the LEADERS?? Sure, to Slaughter, & those of us who DO know better, DO think for OURSELVES, DO HAVE COMMON SENSE?? Well, it's a shame,because WE'LL ALL GO DOWN, Together, Just as those of the BRANCH Davidians, & those at yes, even Benghazi..Vince Foster?? & So MANY MORE..seems one things always Follows the CLINTONS...& None of it IS GOOD. After all, SOROS is THEIR "FRIEND"..The FBI, DOJ, WH, CIA, Every AGENCY & DEPT..all INFECTED..with Corruption, & Again, MONEY DOES END UP BEING, the ROOT TO IT ALL..ALL THAT'S EVIL..IF ANY "POLITICIAN" Really wanted to HELP those who NEED IT THE MOST, like the Same People & Children, & Countries, IN Extreme Poverty, Still Dying of Diseases & Lack of Food & Water today, as much as they Were & Still Are , going back as far as I can remember, FOR just my time remembering as a child, & Seeing it on TV, & asking MY GRANDMOTHER, WHY ARE ALL THOSE KIDS & People Hungry, Starving, & Have NO HOMES?? Well, those SAME PLACES, SAME COUNTRIES, Including in OUR OWN, are STILL Just as Poor, Hungry & Homeless, or Living in Extreme Poverty, & Danger as they were over 50+ years ago..Nothing has changed, except TIME & TECHNOOLOGY..the Gov. is just as CORRUPT if Not More, & the PEOPLE & those who are in Extreme Need, are Still in the SAME PLACES..again, including within our OWN Country. They just try & Hide it, since now the MEDIA & PRESS Are ALL IN as those who NO LONGER Are, if ever?? UN-BIASED..OH No, there's NO MORE..JOURNALISM..or Truths in Journalism. After all, Again, All about MONEY, AKA Ratings & Jobs for them..Selfishness & Greed still RULE. They the now, GLOBAL ESTABLISHMENT, are just through More Money, More Technology & More Time, They are MORE..Connected, Strong through the UNITY WE Should have, but, it's only for those with the EXTREME Wealth, those truly of less than 1% of the World, Not just the former US OF A..after all, WHAT'S UNITED about US NOW?? Except for those who ARE United AGAINST Any who are NOT PART Of the GLOBAL Establishment? I know this seems like the rantings of a crazy person, But trust me, I WISH I was crazy, I'm feeling crazy, because I remember too much, & don't forget, when you put it all together, it is INSANITY. Because We Continue to MAKE THE SAME..MISTAKES, & become more & more, complacent & therefore..Complicit..& Very Lazy, by the time Enough realize what's happened, It WILL be TOO LATE. Pretty much there already.
you're not crazy.
I'm glad a couple above pointed out that the guns at the compound were legal. Also that it is standard operating procedure for anyone you want to get rid of, to deem them a child molester or a danger. That very same thing has happened to people I know. The weasel lawyers bald face lie on their filings to court and in person to the court, the corrupt judge accepts it as fact, even though there is no evidence, just hearsay by the lawyer which can be proven Buel Shyte but not allowed or disregarded. THAT happens every day in courts across amerika. THAT is your govt today. Bought and paid for. Or doing what is best for them, not what is right and true.
Jeremy(commenter above), it truly is a hair puller as to why people absolutely refuse to look at evidence which goes against what people first thought. I know people like this also. Here is my take on them:
There are a few too many people in this world who just up and decide what they think is then fact, without nearly enough evidence to progress from "seems like" to "fact". This condition manifests ESPECIALLY in those events or situations where it impacts their "world view" or "desired view of how things are". Meaning all their life they were taught and believed that govt is good because it is just a bunch of people trying to do good. They were taught and believed that "the police"(all policing forces) are there to protect you from the bad, so they are your friend if you are good. They were taught to always listen to and obey authority in school and at home.
So if there is any possible way to avoid obliteration of this World View of theirs, "that govt is their friend and there to help", that is what they will do. They absolutely cannot handle the implications of it not being true, what they want to believe about govt. That would make them out to be fools. Their egos are all wrapped up around "being right" otherwise they would not NEED to up and decide they were right without the necessary evidence. They have a serious emotional attachment to their World View of govt being people trying to do good. It is what they need to believe to feel safe and secure. So to protect that need along with their ego, they avoid all that would indicate otherwise.
I had a friend who blurted out "I don't believe that!" when I offered up some additional information I knew he wasn't getting from the major TV news, his only source of info, about the Cliven Bundy standoff regarding grazing rights in Nevada. The bit of info was that as soon as it was discovered that Harry Reid, longtime congressman from Nevada, wanted the land for future solar farms, like the development his son was arranging on similar land, the Federales were pulled. He and his cronies wanted the whole thing (and that info) to die out quick, didn't want big investigations.
Now if Trump truly wanted to effect change, to make amerika into America again. He would take a substantial chunk of dough and have his kids run a COMPETING MAJOR TV NETWORK where they show Documentaries like this and many others. Report actual news instead of the hog poop and chicken crap (two of the most pungent varieties) and why I haven't watched TV in years. It is very difficult not to be influenced by TV even if you know better, so best just to turn it off and do something more productive.
What separates most of us? Good information. Propaganda often is simply the omission of information, "the rest of the story" or the actual facts. Look how much was omitted about Obama in 2008 by the major news who was supposed to expose rather than provide cover.
It is so sad that only a handful from the original colonies stood up to make the usa happen. From my experiences of standing up to protect some communities from being ravaged by big corporate-govt greed, and so few standing along side, it would be the same in any physical opposition, which would be UNWISE anyway. As others have pointed out, they have the advanced weaponry and know how to use it well enough.
Further, all that is needed to "stand up" only takes another hour or two a month, to see to it decent honorable people are running for all offices from all parties in numbers. That way it doesn't matter who the fools vote for, someone good will get in. That is the only thing that can and ever could save the usa. Information is power and controlling the information and misinformation is what the weasels have had on their side far too long.
I hear nonsense from supposedly learned men like Mark Levin, that a constitutional convention is needed to enact amendments and changes to prevent the abuses that are going on now. If the weasels are ignoring the constitution now, what would make them Not ignore it later; especially with something they like even less? Even worse, some of those supposed "helpful" re-wordings seem to be most beneficial to a police state. Just because someone claims to be for the people doesn't mean they actually are ...or aren't misguided in regards to some things.
DO YOUR OWN HOMEWORK !!! Do not be a nodding nor bleating sheep.
Do at least lead yourself. Others will inquire. As little as it really takes to toss the bums out with a vote and see to it decent people are running, don't expect your friends to be the ones to be helping you, unless you are very lucky. Make new friends. My friends are either too selfish (only desire to do the minimum of voting for whatever the BanksterCorproGovtMedia complex puts in front of them) or have that messed up world view that govt is the good guys. I've tried to see things from their point of view but cannot seem to get my head that far up my backside.
WACO was a fake
sick,sick.and worst of all,this is called democracy
I thought white religious christian fanatic "cults" & guns were normal in the mid west USA (ex Omish) and how the USA was built.
The ONE thing I never saw discussed was Bill Clinton's role in the raid. As commander in chief, his signature had to be on the Posse Comitatus waiver before any tanks left Fort Hood. ATF violated their own safety rules by setting up the siege while Koresh was inside the compound where he could organize his followers into resisting. Gee, what could possibly go wrong if you surround a doomsday cult with tanks and troops? Per standard operating procedure, they should have arrested Koresh when he went into town to collect the mail for the compound, which he regularly did. He could have been easily taken, leaving his followers leaderless.
Looking back at this horrible mass murder(by the ATF and FBI) one starts to see clearly the pattern that has emerged historically in the US and unfortunately throughout the world now. It all seemed to start with Ruby Ridge-wtc-Waco-Oklahoma city-Wtc and then came Bali-Spain and London! Doesn't take a genius to see who is the real enemy here!
The sound was cut off early in the film and I could not watch it but I know what transpired, a criminal holocaust against a religious group that was not bothering anybody. America sucks when criminals like the ATF. and crooked politicians can get away with murder!
Well said
+Just remember this , the government runs and has been running child kidnap for profit rings for decades, and anytime they need to demonize they bring out the tried and true method of
"THEY ARE CHILD MOLESTERS" in the dumbed down public mind this is all that's needed to condemn and convict. NOTHING else ,even admitting they lied- 'made a mistake' wont undo that type of damage .
The devil has many children working for him
This documentary to me doesn't so much vilify our government as it does the human species as a whole. To think that so many many people were blinded to the actual events and still to this day, as jeremy pointed out, refuse to look truth in the face.. It's utter madness... It has happened throughout human history and will continue to happen. People we live in an insane world. It doesn't take much to push a mass of individuals into mass hysteria. A little fear a little propaganda... What do you think the war in Iraq is? This same disgusting tragedy is going to keep unfolding until our species no longer exists.
For all you right wingers, christian extremist, and fascists that use Waco as an excuse for your hatred of government, citing some imagined leftist plot, pay attention. The most telling, and important scene in this documentary is the scene showing a sheet the Davidians hang out of a window during the siege. "RODNEY KING WE UNDERSTAND". It is not the blacks, or the muslims, or the gays who are your enemies. It is the government and powerful corporations that install and militarize those governments. They are enemy of all us people.
Watched this documentary, I remember it very vaguely when I was young, all the adults told me "he was raping children, he deserved it" so for kicks, all these years later, I asked my mom to have a look at this film. She refused, and claimed that "no sane" person would ever attempt to defend a pedophile. I had to explain to her that the FBI admitted they made that up, and she still refuses. She used to be Seventh Day Adventist, so it is wierd to me that she refuses to even view it once. Apparently media blackouts and lies are very very goddamn effective.
As a side note, why are people I meet that are indoctrinated by the state, and believe every word, so unwilling to look at any other evidence than that produced by abc cnn and fox? I don't get it.
And did Rumsfeld actually seem like a decent dude in this flick, he seemed pretty pissed off about this whole thing, I always pictured him as being the dark overlord, and after thinking about WHY he would align himself against Janet Reno and the FBI actually makes sense if he wanted to gain popularity and seem like a really good person... I mean, it's just strange, here he is young, going off on the FBI for doing this, and as an old man, he sanctions and condones mass murder on a much higher scale... I dunno, I guess I still think they are ALL full of beans and rice and they only play nice when it makes them appear good to the public.
Watching this unfold in the beginning,I remember clearly the media and their ideas about getting the scoop or portraying David Koresh as a child mollester at the time had me convinced that what was unfolding was a mass suicide and typical of a fanatic such as the Jonestown massacre or suicide solution to end all problems affiliated with a religious order hell bent on making a life for themselves to be orderly and just and that all stay away and be non judgemental. That was my naive way of thinking and believing that what the media and law enforcement were telling the truth to the world.How wrong can I be in sentencing this mass murder as a trivial mistake to be blamed on one person.Nearly twenty years later and watching the absolute proof that a bunch of gungho military weapons men can try to justify their reasoning for murder and still try to lie and blame one person for their happy day RAMBO style tactics.What a sad injustice to think that they are right and even after the tapes that clearly show murder with intent to silence.For David Foster to kill himself clearly tells a completely different picture and for one person who kills a women at RUBY RIDGE to have a green light and once again kills someone else and is never punished makes it perfectly clear for me to state that injustice is a serious problem for us and for the Government who sit and listen intently at an Inquiry,only to make remarks such as the " Butler did it" sends a clear picture to the people who place them their,They are above the law and their is nothing we can do about it.I for one would really like to know the person or persons who were spraying machinegun rounds into the part of that compound that clearly was not on fire and the clear evidence of bodies that were recovered had signifigant trauma from bullets not death bye fire but evidence that clearly was that those who were trying to escape the flames were murdered for silence.The LORD works in mysterious ways and even after twenty years the answers that will never come to lite are in the souls of those who were their and took part in a dispicable way killing children have that conscience over their souls and they will pay.Most certainly for anyone who authorized that massacre will in the end meet their maker and justice that will be far more gruesome than on this planet will be waiting for them as they stand and lower their heads in shame.This was a very good thorough doc and i am convinced that a cover-up is still waiting to be revealed from pressure that one day maybe one day will come to life from honesty and truth.Highly doubtful but hey thats my way of seeing it.
Label someone a child molester and the people will want justice. Those that surrounded David Koresh were biblical scholars many with a PhD.
Was the second coming of christ disrupted because of the events at waco? Wonder why the entire compound was picked up and reassembled in an "Area 51 compound" along with a foot and a half of the earth it rested on?
What happened in Waco will eventually come to light.
I worked in Waco when this happened. It was common knowledge that David Koresh came into town regularly and that when law enforcement asked him to come in he did. He would have come in - all they had to do was ask him.
A Waco law enforcement officer who was injured also worked security for Southern Farm Bureau. He and others entered a window, yelled something like "Waco PD surrender" and he got shot. He said they were told Koresh was crazy and dangerous and had automatic weapons. I asked him if he really believed that what was he thinking jumping in a window with only a hand gun and WHY would he expect them to surrender? Maybe he watches too many movies.
If black trailers pull up on any ranch in Texas and people in black jump out and start shooting almost any Texan would shoot back. While if I were them I would not have had weapons, that does not change the fact that they were murdered by our government and the children were primary targets.
They are right - this is only one of many incidents and only the beginning. I hope someone reads this and takes a message to the survivors. God called some of those who were ready home. Those whose hearts weren't totally ready walked away. Those who were most called are in prison still providing testimony by example to bring others to the Truth.
Just as God called on a few chosen individuals such as Corrie Ten Boom and Alice Herz Sommer to witness in Nazi concentration camps he still today calls his disciples to witness in places where there is the least hope. He gives them the courage to hold it together and serve as examples in places none of us would wish to be sent. I have no doubt He blesses them greatly for their sacrifices.
I was 17 or 18 years old at the time of the event , and at the time i remember saying ... good for them they deserve to die , i was naive and belived in goverment propaganda but today im older and just discover that documentarie . I really regret the word i spoked and invite people to watch this and learn the trut ... its a way of redemption for me
I was 40 at the time and I remember being the only person standing up and saying this is murder....government murder. An I do not think one person was jailed for the murder of 75 Christians.
Also resarch Ruby Ridge - the same corrupt ATf that we have now - selling weapons to Mexican drug lords...!
F
An excellent documentary. One thing that stood out to me throughout this (and some of my own research on the topic) is the need for something like chaplains in the government (or perhaps I should say, "good chaplains). Perhaps someone functioning as the ethical/moral voice could have persuaded Janet Reno (and those at the FBI who were pushing her) that the use of CS on infants and toddlers, never mind others not actively resisting, is immoral and ill advised. Similarly, a chaplain would have proven useful to negotiators in understanding the mindset of the Davidians. Of course, this assumes that there was a desire on the part of government leaders to bring this to a peaceful end with as few casualties as possible. The documentary suggests otherwise.
What the documentary does not say - us that due to Clinton looking on, being absent throughout this murder siege by FBI & Atf, and the Murderer of Waco - Janet Reno in her lesbian self, watching this blood bath....
And main stream American media just re-read the lies and deciet by the FBI - and Americans did NOTHING.
No demonstrations.
No voice.
America sat by and watched this live movie of death and destruction.
Is that the governments cover up led directly to the worst internal act of terrorism by Americans against Americans......
........The bombing of the Oklahoma City Federal Building where the FBI and ATF were housed.
The Terrorists were the FBI and ATF who lied bold faced to the Congressional Hearing - made up of mindless, worthless elected officials.
it's fairly obvious who is telling the truth when one side is recording everything and the side is refusing to let people film.
This was a sad situation. Those videos proves what happened at the compound over the course of time during the stand-off.. Once again the american people were being lied to by the media and government officials.. I remember watching this and it was said that David Koresh was taking women and children hostage he started the shootings he started the fire and it was a mass suicide... Thats obviously not what these video show imo more should view this one a very good documentary..
Why is this video labeled as conspiracy theory? Clearly it is not a conspiracy theory, too many facts prove it's case. Seems when main stream wants something to seem coo-coo they then label things (like conspiracy theory) to make it seem like a make believe bed time story. This video makes me angry, and it should. Any normal human should get mad. You keep turning your check then one day you your self will turn into a bullet and then what? Nothing? Seems doing something about it would be a better way to go about it. Fact is God promotes for you to stand up and fight, 100's of quotes from the bible can be sited to prove so. David needs to stand to Goliath once again. Get of your asses and for once do something about it, or it will never stop it will only get worse.
It's actually simply labelled the "Conspiracy" section. There is no "theory" in the title of this section. ; )
like i need more reasons to hate.......
You know, I think about what change I can bring about what I can do to help. I get real mad and angry at injustice done by people to innocent even guilty people. We have no right to dish out revenge , thats why we have courts and systems of punishments. It appears to me that this government is heading in the direction, that every government since time began, is going.And where are they now?Look at Rome. These people are deluding themselves if they think they are going to not answer for these things. But my main point is that this government is way to strong for even a large group of us to fight back. They are too well armed well trained and well funded to beat. I am being realistic when I say that this government is not gonna be stopped by appeasement or reasoning.If they did that to those poor people ; I mean the way they went about it, outrages! I wish no harm on no one. I love life and would do the right thing for anyone . But I do hope the Lord do judge them. I leave vengeance to God. They knew children were in there. What possible justification or logic or reasoning could they have used to attack a family dwelling with military equipment here in this country???? I am telling you. They are are filling the Lords cup with wrath .And He is gonna make them drink it full strength!
Well said!!!! Very well said sir!!
Actually if you check numbers there are approximately 2-300 million americans who own guns. As I understand it less than 1/5th of our states registered hunters is more people than the largest army on the earth. Do not forget a founding fathers statement that when the people are afraid there is tyrany and when the government is afraid there is freedom. Earlier a comment on who the enimy is was dead on. I like the full strength part!
"2-300 million americans own guns", considering that total population in 2012 was only 312.5 million.
It would pay to do more research about this subject before you attempt to sound like you know what your talking about.
If you would like to debate this subject with me please don't let fear or your lack of knowledge hold you back.
Thank you for pointing out my error. I meant there are approximately 2-300 million guns in america owned by the citizens. The rest I stand.
Cheers Mate
Hope you enjoy your time here at SeeUat Videos.
Its extremely disturbing when you consider that around 50% of all privately owned firearms are owned by approximately 0.5% of the world population.
Well not so much for me as I have a live and let live philosophy. At one time I may have said that but the more I learn of life the less I like judge and a white house report coupled w evidence from australia, britain, & canada shows that reduction of personal gun ownership is a road to more violence, injury, and death. Its called priorities for research to reduce the threat of firearm-related violence. The study is available at the national academy of sciences.
Cheers to you sir.
G'day mate,
Could you direct me to the sources that state the reduction of personal gun ownership is a road to more violence. The report you're referring to is only one of a number of reports that have been commissioned by the US government. This particular report is only referring to the public health issues that are related to gun violence.
I may have misunderstood your reply, however in Aust since the our own gun reform. Gun related violence has reduced contrary to your post.
Good day to you! sorry so long to reply...
I am not sure what tiime frame but the quote was (aust) 69% > armed roberies, 28% > assauts involving guns, 19% > in murders involving guns, and 29% > home invasions. Now it could be that the mortality/morbidityinvolving guns went down. Then to me the question is/was how many injury/deaths were the result of defense of crime? In america "when a gun was used to attack or threaten an offender the injury rate is consistently lower amonthe gun using crime victims". Also a national survey estimates 500k-3m incidences involving guns (gun used for defense). I think we are both after the same thing (saftey for all and a better life...) we just have different views on how to get there. I was against guns and violence and I have come to be just against violence. To me its basically a boundary issue that can only be solved if I have the means to enforce the boundary.
But yes it seems probable that taken with out qualification of why a gun was used to deny law abiding citizens the use of said tool would initially decrease the incidences...
Oh sorry, no source. The start was SHTF site but it went out from there...did not do very much digging, just read the shtf source which was gov report and the link that gave infor on aust.. Always good to share ideas as thats how philosophys evolve , refine, and sharpen.
G'day egg,
The source SHTF, from what I've read is inaccurate in a number of areas, there more reliable sites available with a little more research. The Australia Government site, Australian Institute of Criminology, will give you a better more accurate information on gun related violence. The report from your source claims that "After arguing that countries like England, Holland and Australia are safer because everybody is disarmed" it went on further however the error is that here in Aust not everybody is disarmed as claimed. It is legal to own firearms here as long as you hold a firearms licence. There are restrictions on the types of firearms and capacity magazines we are allowed.
Your statement " Also a national survey estimates 500k-3m incidences involving guns (gun used for defense)" I'm assuming that you're referring to the US and if so again can you give me the source as the national crime victiminization survey report that an annual estimated 116,000 cases of armed defence against criminals. As there are such a huge difference in the figures we have both found, I tend to believe the figures from the more reliable sources than the one you have supplied at this stage
Hey man, just home after work...
The article was the gov report comissioned on one of my earlier posts. Yea, shtf has lots of good info but like anything one must research to find out more accurate information and then account for bias...and the fact that correlation is not causation...
Thank you for your input and I agree one must do and not just think.
bye for now, ...
Mate, I agree with your last sentence, however all the philosophy's are a waste of time if no action is taken to achieve more than just thoughts. I have found this site to be extremely informative and entertaining, I like the fact that even though you may have some knowledge of a subject, the other members help expand your knowledge further. Be it their posts or through the research I think it's a requirement to answer as correctly as possible. .
Mate although you have made valid points, however if someone touched one of my family, the perpetrator better hope that either the police or your "god" gets to them before me.
If I did catch them the pain and suffering I would inflict would be beyond description.
History is HIS --STORY the victors
Mystery is MY---STORY..... tell your story
So Let it be Said ........... So Let It Be Done.. Embelish.. Em---BEl---ISH all you like it's a whole lot of fun
By the way all you sheepole telling your dream is How Creating Is Done
It begins with the motive and then with a thought and then out your mouth so it ot !
Singing ...Em.. is Ringing just like a Bel....Soft and Sweet like a Woman....Ish with a comforting Smell
So get up and stand up and tell us your dream hopefuly before we here the next Family SCREAM
WAKE UP ...WAKE UP... BEFORE IT TO LATE THE US GOVERNMENT CORP'SESS DO NOT LOVE YOU !!! WHEN THEY GREET YOU WITH SUCH HATE
The man/woman in the mirror is responsible i agree
It is time to unite the American world sea
To know what to do can complicate thee
Just do the opposite pull 180 degree
Then and only then can there be
The change in the world that you wish to see
The sheepole & chattle don't know that yee create thee
By our thoughts and our actions a big clue to life's mystery
I Qoute: In the time of the end what is good shall be bad and what is bad shall be good !
Now it is time to wake up like we all should !
Dirzil Drazil Drezil Drone ! It's time for these ones to come home ..............But Mr wizzrd.. Butt Mr wizzard !!!
Do you know why they call it the American Dream ?
It is because you have to be asleep to believe it !!!
So wake up little suewee sueweee suewee stop being a Drone !!!!!!!!!
Or they shall come slaugther you and your families like they did Davids Home !!!!!!!
Everybody better wake up and smell the Hell that these liers call a Democracy have made of not only America but the whole world , it once was a beautifull land mother earth a very good place to live and raise a family !
In case you American dreamers did not know what you have just witnessed here is what a Democracy is all about 51% percent murdering the other 49%that only would like to live their life like they choose peacefuly.
We have over 250 years of evidence just in our modern day times of our government doing the same thing you witnessed here all over the world in the name of freedom ? Democracy is to mock you see?
To live in the republic for which it stands is what you think is democracy not true the two are not the same.
A republic promotes the way the davids brach divivians lived in peace in their own way without living in fear of being harmed in any way by anyone or anybody espiecialy the ones who swore and took oaths to protect them from what you have just witnessed here intrution of and by your own government, Thats a democracy for you !!!
You better wake up and you better not cry it is time to stand up or stay a sleep and die !!
DIng Ding Ding can you here the bell can't you smell the US GOVERNMENT CORPS is turning the World and your American republic into a burning hell
Get up stand up ......stand up for your life
Wake up little suezy the CORPSES are packin uzies and they are coming for what is left of your freedom and they will turn the whole world into a hell to do it.
Hickory Dickory Doc Tic tock tic tock Tic toc the man/mouse run/ran up/out the clock he stayed a sleep did not say a peep as his own Government slipt him their__________ well i think you may be getting the picture now !
Just in case you home of the free and land of the brave sheepole and chattle still are a lil fogy between the years here are a couple quotes fer ya all
Albert Einstein
The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don’t do anything about it”
Samuel Adams:
If you love wealth better than liberty, and the tranquility of servitude better that animated context of freedom, go home from us in peace we ask not your council, or your arms, crouch down and lick the hands and the feet of those that feed you may your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget you were ever our country men.
@Albert had many great sayings!
i have known all my life what i wanted
i made those choices by walking around them
now i am walking all over them
wandering and wondering if i like it
letting go is not really a letting go
it is a taking back
like the wave that comes spitting at the dry sand
and goes rolling back to her place at the source
every morning i roll the dice
i start moving on what is under me
there is a goal to this game as to every games
i find my clues in the mirrors
in my reflection in people's eyes
i am watching me
i am spying on my self
i am investigating the way i live my life
i change my life from the root
because it is in seeing who i am
that i will accept and embrace
who we are at the root
i even embellish the story if i have to
positive works negative don't
the more we agree with what people say about us
the more we truly are who we are
a poet in her free time
az
From reading some comments on this thread it is apparent that some are speaking into comment boxes before they've taken time to view the film. I suggest that no one can view this film without concluding that the ATF lied, the FBI lied, and the US military lied - all lying to the American people regarding one of the most serious abuses of Federal power in this nation's history. Such are the dangers of centralized powers. The County Sheriff could have handled any complaint regarding alleged violations of ATF's nefarious (and unlawful) gun-laws. Local control over local affairs should be the order of the day as America turns back to the sovereignty of the several States, enough so as to force the Federal government back into its tight little box contained in Article I, Section 8.
Understanding already that some reading here shall take the "nationalist" view point on States' rights, I refer such readers to Thomas E. Woods, Jr., who wrote the bombshell book, "Nullification". Put that into your search engine and locate, purchase, and read this book.
Salute!
Elias Alias, Montana Oath Keepers
Stockholm Syndrome, In case you weren't paying attention, the police never came to the door with the warrant. They went in shooting.
What is the deal with you americans glorifying these religious lunatics.
When the police comes with a warrant you let them in, you don't shoot at them.
Sure the Police in this case f-ed up badly but had they just surrendered from the begin with the siege wouldn't have begun.
What warrant? For what crime? Unless I misunderstood Koresh and the older gent were at the door trying to ascertain what the goings on were about when they were shot at. The rest is not an F-up unless you consider the unnecessary deaths of nearly 100 people including women and children as unfortunate but no more.
Gotta love the AMerican way.
Wish the citizens of USA had enough balls to stand up ..rather then ...bend over....shut their eyes ....and take it up the ass
AMEN
Yes it was a good doc. I dont believe that the Brch Dividian started the fires at all. I believe it was sent down from Janet Reno, to finish the job. Femi-nazi's have no faith in God, and no respect for humanity whatsoever. People were shot, gased, burned, and tortured by Federal agents. This is why we cannot trust the Feds, or the rouges that are in power in washington. This was training ground for the feds, DESTROY all evidence, push the media/witnesses back, and spin the disinformation early on. Make the suspects out as terrorists, use lots of villinous terminology to leak to the press, and make sure no press gain access to the witness/victims. Two years later in Oklahoma City, all the sudden another orchestrated attack, this time in a FEDERAL bldg. were the BATF had offices, but were strangely gone that day in OKC. Does it stink to high Heaven, ya betcha.
Larry, don't be such a weanie. You just back that "feminazi" lush rimball s*** back up. Waco had nothing to do with feminism, ferchrissakes. Janet Reno had nothing to do with feminism. Where do you get your info? Faux Noise? This was nothing but patriarchal force, nothing new there. Listen to Air America or Pacifica radio, anything but what Uncle Murdock would have you believe because you don't think for yourself, obviously. Don't be such a corporate punk.
Swiftly moving on from some of the (*cough!) "off topic" discussions above; this was one of the most brilliant documentaries I've seen.
All evidence-based. All rational. And moving at the same time.
Good lord, Some of the comments above are from the biggest bunch of illiterates,stupid and darn right ignorant hicks it has been my misfortune to come across in one place. Please God, tell me this is not your average American intellectual? If it is, then we're all DOOMED........DOOMED I TELL YOU, DOOMED.
My god, Some of the comments above are from the biggest bunch of illiterates,stupid and darn right ignorant hicks it has been my misfortune to come across in one place. Please God, tell me this is not your average American intellectual? If it is, then we're all DOOMED........DOOMED I TELL YOU, DOOMED.
Alex N, thanks for that brilliant final word on the non existence of any deity in the known or unknown universe. I have to ask where you obtained access to such onipotent information to all possibilities throughout the Cosmos from your fragile, distorted, biased, mass of brain matter evolved over the eons of time for the sole purpose of day to day survival and not such weighty subjects as discerning the existence of a being greater than our electrically impulsed brain allow us to prove by empirical evidence.
Isn't Mt Carmel somewhere near the George W. Bush Jr ranch? Of course, now that "W" resides in Dallas there is no one around to clear away all that brush that took up so much of his time as President. The place is probably completely overgrown now. Then again, the Waco disaster was on Clinton's watch - more specifically it was on the watch of the ultra pathetic AG Janet Reno. I just wonder if "W" would have allowed the April 19th raid? He would probably have loved the "get tough" concept, but against his Texas neighbors and fellow Christians?? I don't know.... If not, then good for him!
I am embarrassed that Charles Schumer is my states representative. Such a loss of life and the result is always the same, a cover up. I hope those involved get what they deserve in the end.
Schumer is the devil incarnate.
what a bunch of unprofessional thugs the ATF are.
here we go again.. the world would be a much nicer place without religion.
if they were so inocent they should have gone out earlier.
why so many guns inside the compound?
just to answer your question about so many guns - Koresh and other Davidians were licensed gun dealers and sold guns legally throughout Texas at gun shows. The govt. knew this and knew they had a plethora of guns but they were all legal. Do you know of many licensed gun dealers with no guns? That would be like farmers without produce, painters with no paint etc. They legally sold guns at gun shows to make money to continue building their compound, buy food to feed their families, and have some type of income to continue living.
Because of this fact I will never know why they killed all of these woman, men, and children. I am still baffled to this day. Just a sad sad story.
Oh no! How terrible - look. If it was so bloody horrible - those religious psychopaths could have just walked out - that's what everyone wanted. But NAH! - Just pop that s@#$ in gods hands - oh but wait what happened? - they f@#$%^& burned to death - once again ladies and gentlemen: God does not exist and religion is a waste of time that can only lead to the narrow-mindedness that causes s@#$ like WACO.
I have not seen Waco: A New Revelation as, apparently, it is impossible to locate on DVD, but I have seen WTROE and you do not need to be a UFO abductee or goverment conspiracist to see there are many serious allegations that hold credible water. One can only grapple and agonize over the horror, shock and saddness of the loss of life and HOW those lives were lost. Just an insanely tragic event in modern US history considering that this was not an unseen attack from an evil, foreign enemy but the enemy in plain site.
Not to make light of this tragedy but I can also sympathize with the inhabitants of Waco, TX as they, through no fault of their own, have inherited a similar, enduring stigma as those of Amityville, NY. Unfortunately, for the occupants of Waco, not in some harmless, fictitious way but an all-too-serious and devastating way.
Like most, I am not a conspirasist and I have very litte info on this subject but common sense must dictate. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and sounds like a duck...... Anyway, I am a New Yorker and knowing what I've experienced and heard from Sen. Chuck Schumer, I would always go with the side he's opposing.
Now, this may sound a bit like a conspirasist but would it be too unbelievable to conceive that a sleaze-ball like Bill Clinton, less than 3 months into office, would do all he could to protect himself and his newly formed goverment!?! I do not believe, for a moment, that there is a moral bone in his body and I believe more bodies, than were tragically lost at Mt. Carmel, are buried in his closet. Lest we not forget the egomaniac that is Hillary.
U.S. invovlment in 9/11? Absolutely not. I do not believe any of that nonsense.
U.S. goverment law enforcement agencies (including the White House) involved in the criminal covering up of an incredibly embarrassing and devastating investigation including evidence tampering, perjury and mass murder? Not only possible, probable.
But those are just my opinions.
May peace be with those lost, including all agents.
Dave White
Retired NYS Police
1983-1987 USMC
Ive lived in Waco all of my 55 years.Mt.Carmel,for local folks is in what we call Bellmead.Its not 10 miles away.Its in Beadmead, and bellmead is a little suburb of Waco.My friend has land butted up to the land where the compound stood.Having ring side seats,the government(fbi--atf--the us military) all were part of this cold blooded murder of these people out there.Now i have a problem if david was molesting the kids out there.I would have no problem of shooting him myself.Then again that is part of the lying coverup the government wants you to believe.Well folks, im not buying it but thats just me.God will sort it out and punish the ones who has it coming.
Everyone is a child molester or rapist whene the goobermint need to justify killing. BUT then they KILLED those children as well !Being killed seems a bit harsh of a methjod of rescue from an alleged molester...
I think they left no witnesses, as this was not a foul-up but a test
Thats some messed up s**t that happened there.
One point, a guy in the film said "that the people responsible will have to look at themselves in the mirror", i don't think it bothers them!
Mrs. Cullen doesn't GET it......... apparently. (starts thinking..... what if this thing happened in West Greenwich but they said it was in Exeter....hmmmmmmmmmm, would that be of any real importance to the story?)
wow a whole 10 miltes outside Waco... *roll eyes*
same sh*t, couple steps.
@Mrs.Cullen. It seems you are more concerned with the image of your city than the events of something so much more important.
Groups of people with authorized powers ,getting away with murder.
SET THE DAVIDIANS FREE!
This film brought tears to my eyes. Our government has now been proven to be tyrannical at every level. How any person could call themselves an American after partaking in this blood bath of innocent people is beyond me. Americans do NOT do this kind of thing to their fellow men/women/children.
An FBI Investigator opens this film saying we were NOT told the truth. It is obvious this was NOT a suicide by the peaceful Davidian's who were deeply religious with the mere mission of attaining Eternal Life. They weren't bothering anyone, they were only fanatical to those who did not understand them, especially their attackers, the ATF and military and every leadership level above them.
They did not deserve this kind of treatment and to be murdered by ATF and our Military is a clear message that the government refuses to be tolerant of it's people and allow them to live life's they choose.
Why are their innocent people serving sentences by a corrupt judge who decided to take it upon himself to be unmerciful?
Why are the murders still out walking among people? Why are those responsible hiding the truth and covering up? Why is Texas allowing Feds to take this kind of action on our lands and why are they not speaking out and taking action to clear the names of these good people that did nothing illegal?
This is tyranny at it's worst and as the film said at the end, this is ONLY the beginning of what Americans can expect.
I will cry every time I think of this Mount Caramel situation and the position these Branch Davidian's were put in. I'm clear that these people are graced with God and that those who made them suffer the cruel torture they were given will find themselves in 3000 degrees eventually.
If this kind of information is available and the horrible wrong done is not made right...and soon...it is just another sign that we are in deep do-do living in this country that just believes we are all slaves.
Once again, the city of Waco, who had NOTHING to do with Koresh and his Krazies, is the subject of ire. Let me remind you folks that Mount Carmel, 10 miles OUTSIDE THE WACO CITY LIMITS is where this took place, not IN WACO! It is convenient for the media and authors to disregard the citizens of a good city like Waco, and demolish its reputation more by associating a nutjob with the town. Sure, analyze it to death, but leave Waco alone. The backlash the town got the first time around, especially by foreign journalists, was nothing short of total disrespect. Nobody even knew this place existed until the ATF showed up with guns blazing (thanks to a tipoff by a now deceased local TV cameraman)so if you want to write a book, make a new story, or spin an old one, please do the readers a service, leave Waco out of it, it wasn't in the city limits!
what difference does that make? Do you have no heart? no soul? Babies died! Innocent people died in horrible ways, and you're concerned with Waco's reputation!? You should be ashamed of yourself!
BTW, I agree that Waco has a lot more to offer than this as a tragic stigma, but don't diminish the importance of the events that took place at the Branch Davidian compound.
Mr. Schneider, it wasn’t about money. Those that pull the strings of our government and control the media (Rockefellers, Morgans, Chases, Hearsts…) wanted to see how hard the U.S. American public could be slapped, and then manipulated through the media.., and do nothing. They have a long-standing agenda… one that they were concerned about the American public finding out. They were afraid of us even after ATF shot a wife and mother in the forehead at Ruby Ridge, while she was holding baby in her arms and holding the door open for her son to run into the house to get away from the gunfire. After Waco, they realized that their fear was unfounded.
Mr. Doe, you are right on target.
Dear Stomach, David Koresh’s private interpretations are not justified in scripture. His beliefs are justified in man’s law, but not in God’s… and I am certainly not judging the man according to that rag of edited, spliced, deranged garbage that the media broadcast, saying that those were purely his words. David told the ATF that he would come out if they played his beliefs on the radio for everyone to hear. When they butchered his comments, he knew he was cooked, but I doubt he realized that the government was going to gas them and burn them… just as they are preparing to do to 110 million American citizens in the FEMA camps’ huge ovens and then make use of the million plus caskets that are dispersed at those sites. David Koresh cannot remotely put a mar on what God intends to do. And the ATF didn’t make calls out of fear. They did exactly what they set out to do. Man’s mis-interpretation of scripture cannot possibly bring an end to this world. It will be science and technologies coupled with corporate and governmental greed that will bring us right to that brink. God will step in before that end catches all of us. And God is a mathematician dear Stomach. Logic and precision beyond the combined imaginations of all humanity.
spot on
Was the law enforcement agency not multiracial then?
kkk was not multiracial right? And then along came social revolution. Same thing with the countries that needed to wright bills to declare that slavery is abolished. Is it the truth that befor there were laws that made it legal? Or was it the bussinespeople who had the monopoly?
s it the same as going to the law enforcements and ask them to allow you to start a community outside the boundries of the city inwhich you can make your own comunalrules and culture. What they did to Waco is similar to what happened in other ghetto's like aushwitsz, El mina, Magdala, palestina and what some calls black gettho. But i mean isnt it because of history that that group of people is born and allocated there. But what is there for astronauts....
Anyway therse are not my point. In this universe we can understand each other because we can feel empathy. And humans feel more empathy for their own kind. And rasist choseto see colour as their kind. Ohh, they are so blind.
Or isn''t it me that writes this? My hands, but am I mere a hand that thinks or am I the spirit that canalized these thaught.
We should make love and babys. Not war and missery for the ones comming.We as parents are leaving already because we made human beings to continue the work for us.....but what work or more WACO's?
No Steve Schneider, this happened in Mount Carmel TX, NOT ELK. I live in Waco Texas, and have since I was young. I remember this happening when I was a kid, and I certainly remember where it happened.
do they still have the little building there where you can go in and see the displays?
Religion takes another toll. This particular faith in God is justified through the Bible. From watching this film, I don't think that David Koresh intended to kill anybody but just prepared for a genocide in his interpretation of the Bible. His manipulation of the word puts a mar on what God intended it to be. The FTA made some calls out of fear based on some ignorant assumptions. It is mans interpretation of the Bible that will put an end to this world. This is why God made our faith with Him personal not logical.
This doc and "Waco: The Rules of Engagement" are two very good films. The government officials lie and get away with it. What can you do? I really dislike Charles Schumer because he cares nothing about what happened to the Davidians.
This documentary does a very good job of explaining the massacre at Waco. This actually took place about 12 miles east of Waco in the community of "Elk." The government really screwed up everything about this situation both before the fire and after. David Koresh could have been arrested anytime outside of Mt.Carmel. He made trips into Waco often and went for walks on the rural roads in the area almost daily. The ATF was hoping to increase their funding by making a big splash with this raid. That is why they had tipped-off channel 10 to be there filming. Funny how everything our government does always seems to come down to money!
once again the people in power murder innocent people, lie and manipulate and still are not brought to justice. never trust what your govenment tells you they are professional liers, is the lesson over and over again. i hope we learn soon !!