The True Story of Black Hawk Down
On October 3rd, 1993, 120 Delta Force Commandos and Army Rangers were dropped into the heart of Mogadishu, Somalia. Their mission was a fast daylight raid to kidnap lead terrorist Mohammed Farrah Aidid, who had been killing U.N. workers delivering food to starving Somalis. Aidid’s goal was to control the country by controlling all the food.
The U.S. raid went off with clockwork precision, until the unexpected happened. Two of the U.S. Black Hawk helicopters, the soldiers’ airlift out, were shot down. The mission abruptly changed to a rescue operation. Surrounded by Somali militia, a fierce firefight ensued that left American troops trapped and fighting for their lives. The ordeal left 18 American men dead, 70 wounded, with 3,000 Somalis casualties.
This brilliant documentary tells the true story of "Black Hawk Down" through the memories and voices of the American Special Forces survivors. Also included are Somali militiamen as they recount their harrowing experiences of battle.
The True Story of Black Hawk Down is a reminder of the bravery and determination of our armed forces and their creed and commitment to never leave a man behind.
The fact is Malaysia Army save US army.?
Go Somalis they wrecked those Americans to death
Scr*w you and your Somalis ....That country is a s**thole ....Let the warlord terrorists destroy it for all i care
@AmericanPride.
Yeh Screw us We Somalis, Just whupd yo fake brave A$$ For Good.
you just dont come a country pretending to help and Go Firing the Sh*t outta Em, and we did what we supposed to to do(whup yo Gringo a*s)
ALLAH Bless Somalis
It is astounding that in some situations, Americans facilitate negative attack. It is in essence like they crave it. The real story is not something everyone knows about. It is extremely disgraceful how the government constantly lies to Americans. Quite frankly, even thinking of American lives as expendable and simply as bargaining chips in pursuing their interests. I am appalled by some things i have come across and extensively researched. Government has disgraced what the founding fathers intended.
It's always easy to comment when you're on the outside looking in. Have you ever served in the Military? I doubt it because you have ZERO clue what you're talking about. Just another spineless coward who sits in her house where she is safe and protected commenting on things that she reads about on the internet. You're more like a nutty liberal conspiracy theorist who thinks our government is behind every bad thing that happens. People like you offer nothing to society, absolutely nothing!
I just want to say, our town in Iowa also had a solder with this Black Hawk group. He survived this event, but later - only three days later fell at another military assault. I would like to have a monument and really would like to have a black hawk, to commemorate a life that hasn't really be celebrated in his home town or really acknowledged - be it because he wasn't written into the book and movie ....but I think middle America would be well served and represented in their loss serving and defending America....who would I contact to help with this idea?
There is another documentary to be released soon title, Blackhawk Down, The Untold Story, you might be interested in it. Due to be seen at Cannes later this month.
VFW or Washington down near Arlington cemitary or VA norfulk
You just believe what you hear and listen to... This movie is just "made up" , lie and hide the truth ... They just want to blind you from the fact ... Trust me ... I am not lying ... We will not comment like this if it not true
Youre a f***ing id*ot get the hell out of the country that my brothers died for and i took a bullet in the leg for you son of a b*tch
Malay army help American soldiers when they surrounded by somalia soldiers... If Malaysian army doesn't save the them maybe all of them not safe... do not change history
where Malaysian army in this movie that saved the survivors ?
Amen Joey I stand by what you said 100%.
I taught the muslim from malaysia rescued the U.S Ranger.
@joey&therest What you see n heard about muslim in the news, they only let you saw the hill billy-oppressed muslim. We have an unlimited knowledge through the net. Why dont you give a chance to your self read or look through what islam is about. How other islam country looked like. its worth your time. If any or you my friends, see someone/organization killing innocent civilian in the name of Allah S.W.T (ex. ISIS, Al-Qaeda) those are muslim who are not practicing Islam. Muslim and Islam are different. You can just google it.
The movie shows how mismanaged the whole operation was many got killed because of bad leadership, planning, where was the tanks to massive air support.
This was a brutal and horrific event. The images that were displayed throughout the world did show the barbaric savagery of this ideological belief system.
From all that I've read, there's much in-fighting between the sunni, shiites, and wahhabi sects. They've been fighting and killing one another for a long time, and the world ought to let these sects settle their own differences.
I think it's past-time for America to get out of the arabic muslim part of the middle east. It's senseless to allow any more American soldiers lives be lost. It's time to pull all of the troops out, stop the immigration/refugee bullsh*t coming into the United States, and start deporting the ones that are already here, back to their country of origin.
When all of that is done and settled, be good neighbors and strive for peace. Give them one warning of what will happen if they attack or try to pull-off another 911.
If they decide to continue the jihad, carry-through with the warning; annihilate them.
that was not bravery but cowardness death of the 18 rangers n delta forces tought u lovely lesson actually we r not da 1ce dat regretin not u raided unarmed civilians what hve u been sayin be4 u came to Somalia there is no gun that can shoot the rangers n so on America learnt that they cant defeat Muslims so u growin up kids u blood may boil up but u cant change anythng da has happened
Larry M. Shelton MR.Clinton saw his power so he didnt want to lose again let ur brain work what u feel doesn't change da realy darlin grow up dnt think abou sendin any back up i wish u could meet a 1 Somali to show da hell u r
No body asked the Americans for help , they had their own interest , and they started firing guns , but at least it was a lesson to them and i swear to god more than 60 American soldiers died at that day because I was an eye witness what was happening at Mogadishu .
before the war we were listening the Radios and they were talking about something different from the reality such as well trained armies, heroes who don't scare and so on . God know what happened to them that day
No body asked the Americans for help , they had their own interest , and they started firing guns , but at least it was a lesson to them and i swear to god more than 60 American soldiers died at that died because I was an eye witness what was happening at Mogadishu .
before the war we were listening the Radios and they were talking about something different from the reality such as well trained armies, heroes who don't scare and so on . God know what happened to them that day ,
The first MALBAT company assembled at New Port and was ready for final orders at 1755 hours and the second company assembled at 1830 hours. They were mounted on 32 APCs. In just about two hours, the two companies under the Malaysian commander, Col Latiff, were ready to deploy and “the decision came from himand never from Kuala Lumpur.” After further planning, the task force commander decided that the coalition force for the operation was to comprise two U.S. QRF companies mounted on MALBAT APCs, but with Malaysian drivers, gunners, signallers, vehicle commanders, and officers. There was also another company of U.S. Rangers on HUMVEEs and one troop of Pakistani tanks (4 tanks only-added by me).
The coalition force departed New Port for Bakara Market at approximately 2325 hours. The rescue operation was under the command of LTC William David, USA. In the operation MALBAT sustained one soldier killed and six wounded as well ashaving four APCs (corrected by me from two APCs) destroyed. It was the combined effort by the Rangers, MALBAT, and Pakistani troops that resulted in success. It must be stressed that the whole operation from briefing to deployment and execution was done at night, which is inherently difficult and complex. Any delay was largely due to the force having to appreciate, coordinate, and plan what was a dangerous rescue operation.
At all stages of the effort MALBAT acted spontaneously under Col Latiff and did not refer to Kuala Lumpur.Testimony by MG Thomas M. Montgomery, USA, deputy force commander of UNOSOM II, and LTC William C. David, USA, commander of 2/14th Infantry, verifies these facts. The men and women of the Malaysian Armed Forces are a dedicated, disciplined, reliable, and courageous force. In peacekeeping missions, through diligent esprit de corps, willingness to cooperate, and self sacrifice, they have gained a reputation for trust and prowess. The “Malaysian Tigers” are respected and accepted wherever they go. With the highest esteem for JFQI request that you print this letter to correct the record.
—Col Chia Chan Sing, RMAF
Defense Attaché
The source....
the fact is the Malaysians did have a hand in saving U.S troops,
The 19th Batalion Royal Malay Regiment as well as Malaysian special forces (GGK)...1 Malaysian died and seven were wounded..U.S people should know the real fact...
They Malaysians didn't have a "hand" in saving US troops, more like a PINKY
Give credit where credit is due. It was Americans that were put in harms way, and it was US troops who did the fighting....
Do you have list of the men killed? Involved?
Brave American Heros. Thinking of all the military this Memorial Day. Thank you for your sacrifices and your bravery.
Brave American Heros ! Thank you !
I saw for the first time black hawk down. I was truly amazed at how the movie was a lot like the real thing, but what makes me pissed is how that sonofabitch president clinton did not send any back up for our boys who died fighting those bastards. if it had been me i'd have sent a amour unit of tanks, support aircraft of f16's and bombed those black bastards straight to hell.
Black hawk down is a big lie.
You are true.There is no truth in this movie.Because I personaly met a Army Officer who tell me the real Story.American Soldiers life were in deep trouble,the other country Brave Army Soldiers Saved the US Army Soldiers.This is the Real Truth.
It was the night stalkers not the delta forces thank you my father was in black hawk down....!!!!!!!!!!!!
the "night stalkers" were the transport for the delta troopers. the 160th are not qualified to conduct prisoner raids, they are aircrew
yeah you're ritgh ahmad syahli abu bakar ,stupid american lol
Country that act like the World Law Bringer but bring more death and destruction to other country, stupid citizen 100% believe their ruthless Mr President.
Invading Iraq for WMD ? NO WMD found.
Afghanistan for Osama?
Gaddafi because of Africa Gold, ..
WTF USA and Nato. War for their own profit.
And these coward well equipped soldier also did not mention MALBAT that save their smelly asses in Mogadishu.
Ironic how you're calling Westerners smelly! Equipment generally does come in handy
Less than a hundred well equipped vs an entire, poorly equipped city, I'd like to see you attack in a raid like that with no equipment and see how you do.
when we captured them did we take them back to the base alive?
10/3/1993-2012
19 years have passed, our KIA are not forgotten. Rest in Peace.
John Stebbins (they changed his name in the film as a result, but the character is played by Ewan McGregor) came back from Somalia and repeatedly raped and sodomized his 12 year old daughter. He should have been shot.
LOL people crack me up reading all the comments..There are so many that I can respond to but I will only respond to two..The first one is the Vietnam War. It depends on how you look at it.You can say America lost ,but really did they?? You had a South/North Vietnam to begin with..France went through Nato to ask if America would help them stop the communist from taking over the french terriorty.So they went endless blood shed but the facts remain there is still a south/north vietnam..So communist was stopped from taking over french terriorty stale mate if you will no winners..but there was plenty of human lives lost... UN asked America to help them with Somalia..So they did, got food to the people once America pulls out they kill pakistani u.n troops so they sent troops back to get the king lords, take them out sadly this happend..That's fine if the Somalias want to back the lords the ones who starve them..Next time someone ask America to do something the USA should tell them go F themselves just my thoughts..
The Un asks USA to do these things, by the gods! do you think the World is like that you have no idea on how Humanity works or the amount of help usa has recieved.
Next you will be saying US entered ww2 for freedom and Democracy.
Its quite obvious that ignorant people like you can be so blinded by your naivety...get some education first and while at it, concentrate in improving your spelling too
I think you are wrong about Vietnam. The French DID ask the us for help, but the US refused which led to a bunch of French soldiers (mostly from the foreign legion I believe) died in captivity
I might be wrong on it, so I won't say for certain. But as far as everything I've read on the subject goes, the story is US went into Vietnam cause some people was piss poor scared of the communism.
I seem to recall they hade to stage the reason to intervene too. Guess they learned that from the SS people they capture during the Second World War.
Pretty neat trick actually, as long as you can get the people behind you to believe it
But you are right about the fact that the UN requested the help of USA in somalia.Only it was too poorly planed and I guess one of the problem was there was to manny people involved in the strategy
I agree bro, we go to help starving Somalians, their own leaders were killing UN peacemakers bringing food and aid in, stealing the supplies and food and starving their own people. How evil is that? And we get these kinds of hateful antibamerican comments. I'm for helping America again, seems like we are not appreciated for all the men sacrificed, to help those ungrateful people. God bless our troops, living and gone, all our service men. Their sacrifice will never be forgotten. Real American heroes ????MAGA
I think we should have stayed out of it. Let those war lords kill and starve their own people. Who gives a crap. Yeah yeah I know we are supposed to care about innocent civilians but those innocent civilians are the people who bore the war lords. Leave them alone. Stop funding humanitarian aid to these countries. Turn your backs and just leave them to their own hell.
spoken like a true American.... lol
but americans already do that to poorer americans
I agree,but when you show pictures of starving people on tv ect that plan goes out the window
I find it ridiculous that some claim that those American soldiers involved in Operation Gothic Serpent unnecessarily opened fire on civilian people....
The civilian people were the ones shooting at the American soldiers.
I'd also like to know how the camera man sat there and listened to a murderer defend the dismemberment of American soldiers.
Fantastic story. This single documentary gives valuable insight into why US forces fail to be effective in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, Somalia etc. The lack of respect for local culture and people, too much reliance on military might, lack of clear strategy or political will to achieve long term goals stands out in this story. I wonder if instead of spending millions on military hardware if the US had built a few hospitals and schools first, they would have been able to win the trust of the Somalis.
Hussein Aidid comes to America gets trained to be "the best of the best" during a war with his father Mohamed Farrah Aidids. umm i think you Americans need a better screening prosses in your military
I think you need a better education so that you can assert your unsupported views using proper English and correct spelling.
It's within our abilities as humans to fight each other regardless of reason, it's just our nature, as is the Lion's nature to kill for food, that's America for you, the 'Lion' they'll take from you because you can't defend yourself, is that so wrong tho? It's been like this for years now and you're still not used to it? Open your eyes people and Stfu if you have a problem do what everyone else is doing and fight... Expressing yourself through peaceful means such as communication is bullshit, your words won't reach anyone, no effect... It's the will of the strongest.
I believe we should start carpet bombing countries like Somalia!!!!!!!!!!!!! With food an clean water, it would be a hundred times cheaper, an what's there to loose trying that, Bombs rarely end wars, maybe it's
time to change or method of winning the hearts an minds other then with bullets. , I remember when the United States was the bread basket of the world. Now we are hardly able to feed our own, but will pay trillions to the military to take or children, husbands, wives an have them killed or maimed so a select few can make more money. Do people really not know history well enough to see. Truly I would hate to see all the job losses in the US if we got out of the military industrial complex, But I have to put lives over paychecks. Here if you work in the ordnance industry your are a patriot, any other country we attack, a person doing that job would be a terrorist. WARS ARE FOR PROFIT! Always have been, always will be! The Bankers an profiteers are the only winners in war! THE GAME IS FIXED!
even if people sit back wars will still be started with or without or involvement. the us produces enough food to feed american citizens, its that the poor american citizens don't have the MONEY to pay for the food. The military don't take people from their families. they don't force people to join, they do it out of their own free will. They make the world safer for their children or future children so that hopefully their kids wont have to fight. American soldiers are the ones that serve and protect you. they make it so that YOU don't fight so that YOU can live out your life normally. You think food and water is enough to stop war?
Did you even watch the it? They starving did not get the food! Thats how it started.
"Go to Google Video" fails in Chrome. just sayin'
Thanks for having posted this.
_hooa_
What is wrong with some of you people? We support our troops because they sacrifice for the freedoms that we fight for everyday in America. We are a democratic nation. We have the same human rights as anyone in the world. People clearly hate America because we won't stand by and let anyone bash our nation. It isn't the greatest nation in the world, it isn't the wealthiest nation in the world, we don't always think of our own people, and our initial freedoms are being challenged. Our government doesn't always do the right thing and we have a lot of people that complain. But I can promise one thing, if ever we need to defend our people and our rights from other nations that threaten the U.S., you better be damn sure that every American, black, white, Irish, Chinese, Mexican, German, Italian, Native American, man, woman, child, gang member, racist bigot, KKK member, murderer, thief and so many more, will be right there to cut off the heads of those who would dare come to our soil and try to eliminate the American People. My ancestor fought in the Revolution for America, another in the Civil war and died for the Union, another in WWII and Korea and yet another in Iraq. You people who complain about supporting our military are damn lucky that you even have the right to post what you did. If it wasn't for those men and women, you would have nothing. You would be stuck with nothing but your complaints. You have no idea how good you have it here. I dare any of you complainers to go and join the military and be away from your family and have that fear of death everyday. bunch of cry babies you all are.
Tell me exactly how did Saddam Hussein and Muammar Gaddafi threatened to people of America and especially you? You attacked Libya for what exactly? To bring democracy by bombing? To free people there or to take their oil? I will leave all that hypocrisy to you and your countrymen because you are the only ones who can swallow that BS and believe in it, but the rest of the world is not brainwashed with democracy fairy tales.
I don't have any sympathy for any dead US soldier because he died on the other side of the planet mostly killing peasants in some Third World country and we all know that the main business of US is war or making war to keep its military machine live. To understand what I'm saying ask yourself: would you care about some....let's say...Indian soldier who died in Chile? Of course not. So, you can keep your mouth full of "our democracy is challenged" story for yourself, the rest of the world found it very arrogant and stupid. Nobody is blind that the whole thing is about oil and keeping war machine alive.
How did Gaddafi threaten the people of America? How about the trying to obtain chemical weapons and WMDs since the early 70s not to mention the LOCKERBIE BOMBING PERSONALLY ORDERED BY MUAMMAR GADDAFI according to his former Minister of Justice? The U.S. did nothing to Gaddafi beyond being a part of NATO. The entire world community stopped him from slaughtering protestors. Please be informed about history before posting your opinions about it.
should have sent in the British SAS!
nuff said aiiiggt
They would have been butchered
"As far as I'm concerned, all members of the American military deserve the utmost respect for their sacrifices, even when the politicians send them to do something that may or may not be in the best interests of our great nation."
I think that says it all. If they kill innocent people and bring chaos to a region... who cares, because we must support them. Disgusting.
Yo Ding Dong, supporting the troops and respecting their sacrifices, are different than supporting the gubment. Now gaeux have some tofu & carrot juice, hug a tree, and save a whale. You probably boycott tuna because of the damned dolphins.
We see that Somalians are still starving and refugees still pouring out in the thousands,,,,
Oh, how they show so much pride in their glorious achievement of hiding and protecting the biggest perpetrator of their prevalent demise...how disgusting!
With the general populace supporting the very person who's power hunger overrides their and their children's hunger, why do the world bother trying to help out....?
And why do they flee to other countries for, if they so believe that their leadership is NOT at fault of all the miseries, the UN and others including the US have been trying to resolve....?
For those Africans and others who stated their hatred on either US soldiers or UN, think again.....before you open your mouths on here...!
I am not American or even pro-American....but my perspective is pretty much clearer to see what is right from wrong in an otherwise, a complicated web of societal circumstances and events...!
Wow. Some of the comments I have read here are a bit over the top. Some of them are just plain insane. Most of them are offensive. I shouldn't be surprised though, considering 90% of all internet comments tend to be very dumb. Does the web bring out the worst in people?
Have any of you people even watched this documentary? It appears that most of you missed the whole point of it.
This is a documentary highlighting the valor and bravery of human beings forced to do incredible things, under absolutely horrible circumstances.
How many people here have ever served in the military? Do you really think that you could possibly understand what it is like to watch your best friends die in combat?
I really hate to hear from these self-righteous cowards who criticize the brave men and women in uniform who do a job most of you could never handle!
As far as I'm concerned, all members of the American military deserve the utmost respect for their sacrifices, even when the politicians send them to do something that may or may not be in the best interests of our great nation.
I have no problem at all with anyone criticizing American policies, or politicians. I do it all the time; That's the way it's supposed to work. However, to attack the members of the military - who are just doing their jobs as best as they can, while risking their lives, being separated from their families, and getting paid too little to do so - is absurd.
I am very, very proud of the way my nations fighting men and women conduct themselves and have ALWAYS conducted themselves.
I strongly recommend watching the amazing 10-part documentary/reality show "Carrier", which is also available on this web-site. If you do, don't be surprised if you get teary eyed. I defy anyone to watch that program and then still be able to feel hatred for the American military or the American people.
Watch these documentaries with an open mind and try to learn something. Think before you type!
Now you can all go and attack me, but don't expect any more responses. I said what I had to say, and I don't really think it is useful to engage in childish arguments on-line. This is because sadly, people tend to use the anonymity of the Internet to behave in an irrational way. In other words, instead of a debate, we just get a bunch of angry, out-of-control egos insulting each other and resorting to stereotypes. Please people, calm down before you type.
I can handle the fact that some people hate Americans. Fortunately for me, I don't hate anyone.
Well said AM1983, I couldn't agree with you more if I wrote that myself. Your passionate about what you believe in which is admirable whether I agree with you or not.
"As far as I'm concerned, all members of the American military deserve the utmost respect for their sacrifices, even when the politicians send them to do something that may or may not be in the best interests of our great nation."
I think that says it all. If they kill innocent people and bring chaos to a region... who cares, because we must support them. Disgusting.
Why is it that any critical observations of the US, especially of the US Military, are seen by some, such as AM1983, as stupidity, or hatred, or anti-patriotic, or even treason? Nothing is totally bad & nothing is totally good, the US is no different, it has in the past asserted good influence and these days tends to assert bad influence, that's just how it is. Like it or not the glory days of the US empire are over, WW1 & WW2 are in the past, since then the US has asserted itself in a much more malignent way & it's days are numbered. The collapse of the great US empire is happening before our very eyes, my main concern is what happens if a war criminal fruit loop like Cheney gets back into office again sometime in the next 10-20 years? It's the death throes that I'm worried about, and all of you should be as well.
Most of you do not understand the United States, or our history. Some of You are blinded by irrational hatred of our people and our nation, and also by conspiracy theories.
The U.S. is not, nor ever was an Empire. We have however, had presidents who were terrible and mad very bad decisions.
As far as our day being numbered, I promise you this: Europe will collapse faster than the U.S., and if the U.S. does collapse, every nation on earth will go with it. That is a fact, and easy to understand if you understand how the world economy functions. Read Lyndon LaRouche.
No body criticizes American polities and American politicians as much as we do. Especially myself. Don't you realize that most American people want all of our troops to come home from Iraq and Afghanistan immediately?
Would it surprise you that I personally worked in a political organization who tried desperately to prevent the Iraq war from happening in the first place?
The difference is, most of what I am reading on this web-site are NOT "critical observations", but blind hatred. Some people go way too far in attacking our nation and our people.
There is a respectful way in which you can criticize American policies, and if you use those methods, I don't think anyone would complain.
The bottom line is, we are not perfect. However our constitution is the best that the world has ever seen. I have studied world history, politics and economics my entire life, so I speak not from "blind Patriotism."
If you add up every negative thing that the United States has ever done, it does not cancel out all of the great things we have done, or all that we have contributed to the world in a mere two and half centuries.
Regan: I agree with much of what you said. This was more of a general response to everyone, as opposed to just a resonse to what you wrote.
'
Pretty simple, the trust one should have into the future regarding the USA as we see it going.
Here I mean: We often hear "We the Peoples", what peoples is it? As far as I know (Correct if needed) any foreign company (Some call "Corporates") can subsidize any amount of money the admistrators of that company feel like.
In many democratic contries, only citizens can give funds to a political party. Because, the expression "We the Peoples" cannot exist otherwise.
This in some case is often part of the constitution or a country. However, can be part of some law depending upon the structure of the overseen constitution.
That was for one thing...
Second question: How come that in the most expected democratic country, one and only one man decides if its country goes at war for this or that reason?
I wouldn't want to list all the countries that have serious proven and documented reasons to hate whatever is american far or close, cause that list is rather long, but have you ever heard of the word "Referendum"?
It is so easy in now days to get peoples to vote electronically, as long as the "Elite"doesn't fix the votes.
It's been a little while since your fore-fathers composed your constitution, isn't it? And they had to do it rather swiftly?
So, I'm now ready to pass my comment: It's too late!
As one of your famous comic said with the outmost seriousness: -They've got you by the balls"!
Would the International corporates let the "We the Peoples" modify the rules of the game that permits them to handle the US congress and who gets the presidency?
You are not serious and remain represented by liars to the rest of the world. Sorry to say so but you're done!
Everything's considered, it can't be that bad to be considered as the world's "Bully"? Better than the losers?...
You wouldn't start a second revolution to gain back what you've lost a few generations ago for God Sake?
Hey, get your weekly wages, pay your some 14,000 billions you owe everyone and keep smilling!
We simply love you as you are!
I prefer that you guys pay for the "Preventive Agressions" than if it'd be us!
Gosh! It ain't time to rumble all that, it wouldn't be a heck of a wild time for me to source all USA raw materials that we're buying over there. Who wants this?
Already, I had to move some 62% of the sourcing in Asia!
It's running smooth as it is right now, so...
Wait until I'll retire and after then, who care?
Not right now! Wait some 10 years, Ok?
Pierre.
You missed my point!
My God... The level of stupidity, hatred, and jealousy that I have seen on this web-site in reading these comments is amazing.
Have any of you people even watched this documentary? It appears that most of you missed the whole point of it.
This is a documentary highlighting the valor and bravery of human beings forced to do incredible things, under absolutely horrible circumstances.
How many people here have ever served in the military? Do you really think that you could possibly understand what it is like to watch your best friends die in combat?
I really hate to hear from these self-righteous cowards who criticize the brave men and women in uniform who do a job most of you could never handle!
As far as I'm concerned, all members of the American military deserve the utmost respect for their sacrifices, even when the politicians send them to do something that may or may not be in the best interests of our great nation.
I have no problem at all with anyone criticizing American policies, or politicians. I do it all the time; That's the way it's supposed to work. However, to attack the members of the military - who are just doing their jobs as best as they can, while risking their lives, being separated from their families, and getting paid too little to do so - is absurd.
I am very, very proud of the way my nations fighting men and women conduct themselves and have ALWAYS conducted themselves.
I strongly recommend watching the amazing 10-part documentary/reality show "Carrier", which is also available on this web-site. If you do, don't be surprised if you get teary eyed. I defy anyone to watch that program and then still be able to feel hatred for the American military or the American people.
Watch these documentaries with an open mind and try to learn something. Think before you type!
Okay, I'm done. Now you can all go and attack me.
You won't get any criticism from me! You're absolutely correct that it's the policy-makers who should get whatever blame may be deserved, and not those contracted to enforce those policies, under penalty of imprisonment if they refuse. Unless, of course, a soldier has done something in his own right that warrants legal attention; then let him pay a just penalty if he is tried and found guilty. Many of these people here (especially the Gallic, spectacularly vague troll Pierre...) are obviously far too brainwashed in their views about this country to be capable of any kind of objectivity or good sense. They simply enjoy getting their rocks off hating Americans, all Americans, for whatever reason they can find. Don't let them bother you! But when trouble comes knocking on their own doors again, and they are suddenly all warmth and goodwill once more, may we laugh at them for the hypocrites they are, and leave them to their own devices to see how it shakes out for them this time.
But wad'd'ya wanna bet we'd be REAL AS^HOLES for doing that, too, huh?
You know it...
Well written views and I understand your point of view so thank you, however there are issues that I need to address.
You say that you are very proud of the way your country’s fighting men and women conduct themselves and have always done so, well please understand that with great power comes great responsibility and consequences of that power if abused. It is one thing to say that I am proud of my country many people say that; I am guessing about 7 billion or so, but it is an act of courage and wisdom to recognized the true effect our actions have on other nations and people.
Most guys run into a problem with words like ‘always’ because it opens up a host of floodgates; I.e. I do not believe that you are proud of your government and soldiers for their involvement in East Timor, the uprooted people of Chagos who are now called "the sad people", Guatemala, Burma, Peru, Vietnam, Venezuela, Guyana, Somalia, Palestine, Chile, Dominican republic, Panama, Haiti, Nicaragua... the list is much, much longer.
2 million tons of bombs where dropped in Laos that's 5 times Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined together by the heroic U.S. b-52's in much the same fashion as they are doing right now in other countries. My question is: what is there to feel proud about? Installing Shah of Iran in 1953 (tpajax project) was an act of kindness by U.S.? An act which eliminated democratically elected leader of that country, an act which greatly contributed to the turmoil in that part of the region and the spin off for what is taking place today? I am very sorry but there is no pride in it at least there shouldn’t be if we are still to call ourselves a civilized society.
I understand that your main point of view is to recognise the soldiers and their hardship and I will not argue that point for obvious reasons but must we be blind and callous to the consequences of U.S. intervention around the world to fully accept that very point of view?
I think not.
I look forward to your reply.
That teaches a lot. I only wonder why the USA didn't simply turn down the UN request to take over after seeing the the Indian (Or Paki) murders?
Simple to state ins't it? No one could hold that againts the USA authorities!
Bingo! Who could really force anybody?
Else, when a few other americans got killed on the 1sts relielf aids over there, why not use political pressure so that factual international justice gets done?
Whoupsy!... Almost forgot that the USA just couldn't care less about international justice...
They're not recognized yet or else the other way around, I fogot...
Anyhow, they're not in and sure prefer to stay aloof.
Especially in now Iraq's days?
Pierre.
So... This Documentary worth watching?
You continue to use IRAQ against America, but everything you say is all in hindsight. Saddam was not allowing UN inspectors to see all of his weapons, and denying them entry to many of his secrets. That alone gave us the right to get him out of the country. Everyone in almost every major intelligence agency in the world said Saddam had WMD's even though we didn't find them. It is a fact though that he used Chemical and Biological weapons against his own people and murdered thousands, he was a man that needed to be removed. All he needed to do was comply to inspectors to avoid war, but he didn't even when given deadlines. The only mistakes that the US made with Iraq is not kicking out Saddam the first time he tried to invade Kuwait, and not having a good plan to deal with transitioning Iraq back into its own country. You will probably say that we were there for Oil. So Saddam threatens the stability of the United states not only from attacks, but from increasing the price in oil, and you think thats ok? We didn't go there and take the oil out of the ground and bring it back to the US, but the price of oil is directly related to the security of the western world. Lets not forget that Bush WENT to the UN for permission, and the majority of the world agreed. We did not have to get the worlds permission, or the UN's, but we took the right path, even though it was more trouble for us.
You continue to criticize America's involvement in other countries affairs, but don't you realize the world is also in the business of $$? Look up China's involvement in Africa. Soon it will be there turn to be hated on. If there is money to be made in the world, why would someone not try to get it as long as it is within the rights of the law.
The world is a business, and YES, America has profited from other countries, but what I am saying is that along with this profit and overwhelming military power, we as the worlds superpower have used restraint in conquering others, and has become the worlds largest charity. (What country do you think donates the most money to the world during tragedies?)
In the history of the world, name me an empire that has had as much power as America and exercised such restraint with there powers. I think we can all agree that there is NONE that compare. Perhaps you would have liked the Mongolians ethics a little better?
You are the outmost typical simple minded.
1) Yes, the American Elite knew that there was no WMD in Iraq when your liar star Powell faked his disclosure. High ranking US army and pentagon informers including the UN warfare inspectors knew perfectly well and brought out the factual proofs and verbal corroborations on a few documentaries.
-This, including the UN warfare inspectors, some being USA agents.
2) No resolution what so ever, none was agreed (Voted) submitted by to the UN or the NATO for any sort of coalition against Iraq was ever agreed on of voted for!
It is your fantasy, a known standard reflex of your personal "Delirium Tremens" that lead you into this schizoid madness.
Pierre.
How sad to see there are still Americans that think like you, what has become of your once great nation?
id like to bring back a saying from the 80's or so it goes like this"KILL EM ALL LET GOD SORT EM OUT" im not one to belive this libral news that goes on we are there with guns we need to kill these people im talking old teastament punishment kill them their livestock take the goods and pour salt over the land
Ah Mike, well done mate, not a full stop in sight, a reference to God and some CAPITALS all thrown into the same illiterate scrawl. A thing of beauty to be sure. You look like just the sort of dullard who'd write that type of thing. What's wrong buddy? Your life not worked out quite like you'd have hoped? Where is that Christian spirit of forgiveness and love? You are a fool my friend...a closet case, a modern day yank...all hate no brains. Your country will be the backgarden of Beijing soon and all your mothers will service the balls of your new Communist masters. That's right baby...those little Commie bastards will be all your daddies soon. Hahahahahahahahaha!!!! Those little bastards are YOUR bank manager!!! Hahahahahaha....you'd better start ditching that "KILL EM ALL LET GOD SORT EM OUT" attitude of yours because you're going to need to start being nice to people soon when the bailiff comes knocking on Pennsylvania Avenue's backdoor!!! Hahahhahahahahahahahahahahahah.....
I was there, I will tell you this much as far as your viewpoint. I do not see killing them all and letting god sort them out I am not of that mind, However I feel no remorse that they are starving again now. As far as Communist taking over our Nation, You my friend are the fool, What the people of that country did would be nothing to compare with every American who owns a weapon defending their own piece of ground against any force coming ashore to take over. Have you been military ? Have you ever paid the price of seeing the death of countrymen die for orders given? If not then I would assume your a modern day American hater who would be the first to cry out to the Worlds police when your candy ass was being taken over ! We tried to help , they did not want it. Let them starve. Let the rest of the world who thinks that we are bullies defend themselves alone when trouble comes to them. As for the United States of America, We will See what you say right after the earth is toast, that including whatever little patch of ground you are standing on in all your tannedbits. Of course they will be melted from your bones at that point, oh of course you do not use a name. Sgt Mjr L Shafer US Army Ret.
I was there, I will tell you this much as far as your viewpoint. I do not see killing them all and letting god sort them out I am not of that mind, However I feel no remorse that they are starving again now. As far as Communist taking over our Nation, You my friend are the fool, What the people of that country did would be nothing to compare with every American who owns a weapon defending their own piece of ground against any force coming ashore to take over. Have you been military ? Have you ever paid the price of seeing the death of countrymen die for orders given? If not then I would assume your a modern day American hater who would be the first to cry out to the Worlds police when your candy a** was being taken over ! We tried to help , they did not want it. Let them starve. Let the rest of the world who thinks that we are bullies defend themselves alone when trouble comes to them. As for the United States of America, We will See what you say right after the earth is toast, that including whatever little patch of ground you are standing on in all your tannedbits. Of course they will be melted from your bones at that point, oh of course you do not use a name. Sgt Mjr L Shafer US Army Ret.
This one is not in in crisis, he needs to be kept tied!
Pierre.
Can anybody confirm the participants for this rescue operations?
R they Nato Forces including Pak troops..?
Dunno, but I wouldn't trust you.
Kind of weird questions.
Pierre.
Somalis? Everyone hates them in Africa! Too much KAT
Wrong interpretation/translation. (voice over interpretation).
It was good at the beginning that the US military helped, but as soon as they saw the people protesting asking them to leave they should have left and let the people sort out their problems with their dictators. If there would have been another famine because of Aidid, then the people might have asked again for the forces to come (like the people in Rwanda did), and then the people would have welcomed the forces and not blamed the US for all their problems, and Aidid would have been the bad guy and the people might have helped the troops to catch him. Even if the forces would have had to leave and come back two or many more times, it would have been more cost effective and would have saved a lot of lives and suffering. And what is the point in so much waste of lives and destroyed famalies to get rid of a dictator? As soon as you get rid of one there is going to be another one if the people don't realise who is the bad guy. If they would have seen for themselves that when the forces left all their troubles started again, they would want to make sure there is not going to be another one.But no, Americans are stubborn f***ers, with their brainwashed pride. I hate when the survivor of the helicopter crash said: "I am a soldier, I do what I am told" (that was what the nazis said after the war) Don't you have your own opinion?! Are you a slave? (Actually, he is) Dig in your own s*** before you dig in to somebody else's.
I feel bad for people like you.
You're damn right that we Americans are a proud people. We have earned that right time and time again over more than 200 years.
As far as I'm concerned, all members of the American military deserve the utmost respect for there sacrifices, even when the politicians send them to do somthing that may or may not be in the best interests of our great nation.
You obviously don't know how the military works. Civilians make the policies, not the military.
I am very, very proud of the way my nations fighting men and women conduct themselves - and have ALWAYS conducted themselves - on the battlefield.
@ AM1983
"You're damn right that we Americans are a proud people. We have earned that right time and time again over more than 200 years."
Saying it over and over again doesn't make it so.
USA = War, inc.
Edit:
The question is not whether your "nations fighting men and women conduct themselves - and have ALWAYS conducted themselves - on the battlefield [well]." The question is why are they on a battlefield in the first place.
0z
"The question is why are they on a battlefield in the first place."
Answer: Sometimes, unfortunately, it is necessary.
Like for example when the United States, with the help of the Soviet Union and other allies, saved the planet from fascism during WWII. Funny how fast you all seem to forget about that. We shed a lot of blood to protect Europeans, and we'd do it again in a heartbeat. That's just the way we are.
Sometimes, we make mistakes. Like Vietnam or Iraq. That doesn't make us evil, it just means that sometimes bad policies get enacted and bad politicians are elected.
In all honesty, I am convinced that a lot of the hatred towards Americans is just a matter of irrational, child-like jealousy. Sometimes it's just matter of people being brain-washed by anti-American propoganda.
@ AM1983
You are right!
On December 8, 1941, Congress declared a just war and we fought valiantly and we as victors treated the vanquished with
a modicum of respect and compassion.
Congress has never declared war since.
Be the war in question good, or bad, moral, or immoral, we have treated the Constitution like a page torn from a funny book, and
I stand by my statement:
America = War, Inc.
The question is not, Is 0z right, or Is 0z wrong.
The question is, How do we fix it?
0z
P.S.:
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time,
and your government when it deserves it.
~ Mark Twain
@ AM1983
"...the United States, with the help of the Soviet Union and other allies, saved the planet from fascism..."
and you then continue:
"Funny how fast you all seem to forget about that."
Fascism:
'Ownership of the means of production by corporations.'
Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.
~ Benito Mussolini
0z
You have many reaons to be proud of what the US has accomplished, I love much of what the US stands for, but come come on mate, your patriotism is blinding you. 200 years? I was born in a house older than your constitution! In it's short history the US has accomplished many great feats for sure but it's not all good news sorry brother! Open your mind! You also decimated your Native Indians, imprisoned black Africans as your domestic slaves, killed over 2 million Vietnamese when even McNamara now publicly states it was an immoral war that he lied about, you bombed Laos with more explosives than was used in both world wars,Operation Ajax, Operation Northwoods, Bay of Pigs, Iran Contra, WMD's, Abu Graib, Apache attck on Iraqi children where your beloved brave military men are heard laughing saying "ah well, thats what happens when you bring children into a war zone", ooh how compassionate & brave of the big American gunship captain to blow childrens bodies to pieces with 30mm cannon! Damn it brother, open your eyes, your once proud nation has been hijacked by war criminals & those who carry out it's acts of murder are just as guilty!
Proud? Can you tell me how many USA officers went through the "School of Assasins" in Fort Benning, Georgia?
Quite a few, isn't it? Talkin 'bout the "Officers" not soldiers.
And that was only for what the public succeeded to disclose.
No one is fully aware that some "Noble" USA orgs were builded and established by former NAZI war criminals in the early 50's. I'd call that the pride of harboring war criminals.
An "American Pie", way of life, getting an erection while watchin a teenage girl get toasted in Vietman with "Made in USA" napalm.
NEXT! Bring on some Iraqi ones!
Bring that in your grave for God Sake, AM 1983!
Pierre.
Pierre, I have read all of your comments, and you are very ignorant. Your comments are so outrageous that they do not deserve a serious, intelligent response.
@ Violet77
I would sincerely LOVE it if this country left other countries to deal with their problems much more often than it does. It would save us untold billions of dollars, and lots of priceless lives. But...what kind of pr*cks would we be in THAT case? We'd be viewed as callous isolationists who don't care enough about other people's problems, of course!
We can't win no matter what we do, when it comes to some of you. Yet you're all still perfectly willing to sit back and let US be the ones to respond to a situation, when the need arises. Your own words make it perfectly clear that's how YOU feel, at least...
Anyway, I'm running for the U.S. presidency in 2012, and let's hope I get elected. My first order of business will be to pull all of our troops out everywhere and let YOUR country from here on in foot all of the applicable costs for whatever conflicts need to be dealt with globally. I'm sure that each and every time you'll have an unfettered, supremely manageable blast... It'll be the "bomb," as they say. Have a lot of fun being better at it than we are.
@ Pysmythe
"We can't win no matter what we do,..."
I think America should turn inwards. We've so many problems
of our own to deal with. And I do not mean just building new bridges. The underlying problem Americans are up against is
that we are not in control.
Our entire industrial base has been 'out-sourced'. Average kids graduating from high school find themselves with no prospects and think, I know! I'll join the Army! And so it goes, year in,
year out.
War, Inc.
How do we fix that?
How do we regain an economy having as its chief goal the improvement of the quality of live, both private, and civic, instead of having, not as its primary focus but, rather, as its
sole focus the 'quarterly net gain', with no concern whatsoever
as to human integrity or cost to the environment.
We Americans do need to turn inwards a little and think deep about what we as a nation are, who we as a people are, and for what, and for whom, we want America to stand for. Otherwise, 'win' or 'loose', we shall be miserable, and we will have earned it.
0z
Oh yes! the honour, bravery, determination of US armed forces, forever glorifying the righteousness of the mighty US military war machine! You glorify your actons at every opportunity, gnashing your teeth at the loss of 18 brave American soldiers, while you shrug off the deaths of the hundreds of thousands of victims of your imperial aggressions as merely collateral damage! You install your puppets, arm them to the teeth then dispose of them when they no longer serve your national interest and you spare no thought for the misery & pain you inflict upon the innocent victims of your campaigns. The sooner China rises as a super power the better. I used to love the US, but in 2003 when you invaded Iraq you laid bare your nations true nature.
Thanks for completely clarifying that you do not pay attention to any facts at all regarding anything America has done, and what it stands for. You have jumped on the anti-american band wagon from whatever crappy country you are from, and decided that the most powerful country in the world is out to control and destroy everyone. America is the most powerful country in the world who could take it over if they chose too, but we have chosen to keep peace and stability in the world because we are the only ones that has the means to do it. Its one of those jobs where we know that people like you will find ways to hate us, but we rather deal with uneducated people like you than to see injustice done to people in the world. Its a thankless job, but as Americans we know the consequences of helping. And can you even imagine if China were the world's superpower? Do you have any idea what kind of country China is compared to the US? Get an education, it helps.
To Mike & Mike
A quote from Regan:
"while you shrug off the deaths of the hundreds of thousands of victims of your imperial aggressions as merely collateral damage!"
Wouldn't you agree that America has always been insensitive to the life of Others? Especially those "darker" Others?
You write, "we have chosen to keep peace and stability in the world." Would you care to point out one place where peace and stability are kept due to the USA? Maybe we can start with America's own inner cities...
We have to open our eyes to the pride that prevents honest reflection and cultivates a sickening double standard. Do the innocent Iraqi's killed in a war whose pretext has been proven false not matter? How many innocent people have died in American wars? Why don't we ask that?...
What about the native peoples of this North American continent? Does it matter what happened to them? Was that just? Is that how our nation began its evolution into the "world helper" that it is today? Where are those people who were driven from their land and slaughtered like so many buffalo? Some still exist, in forgotten enclaves of truly American life. They lead this great nation in alcoholism, diseases of many kinds and in killing themselves. By "killing themselves" I refer to suicide. Not "inner-ethnic homicide", that title belongs to this country's blacks.
Wow, a country so wise in its diplomacy it can create in undesired people's a culture that engenders its own extinction!
Jwedges
hahahaha, you're a comic genuis Mikeyduo! go find out a bit more about your countires history before you go accusing me of being ignorant, and by history I don't mean the flag waving anthem singing blind patriotic rhetoric that your media, politicians & educational system force feed you. If you think Bill Clinton & Madeline Albright had altruistic motives for sitting off the horn of Africa you prove once again why the average American is the laughing stock of the world. Most Americans can't even point to Somalia on a map let alone understand the hegemonic politics that drives US foriegn policy.
Are you people real?? You and Mike Gray, are you both products of the same cancerous nutsack? Or is this a joke on behalf of the site-moderator? Surely you are not an actual person with voting rights and a central nervous system. Peace and stability? Can you name 1 Latin-American country in whose own internal affairs your government has NOT meddled in recent years? Do you understand how the WTO and the IMF work? Do you understand anything about anything that might annoy, anger, upset or infuriate some of those 'crappy' countries that we're from? The truth is the rest of the world knows ALL ABOUT America, but America knows NOTHING about the rest of the world. You are lied to on a regular basis and you love it. As long as you never leave the boarders of your country, you'll probably be just fine. You'll never be confronted with the awful truth of your own idiocy and increasing irrelevance in a new world. But if you ever decide to get curious and think a few point through in your head you might find that the world has good reason to doubt America's values. You might even begin to learn something! But whatever you do, DON'T lecture people on their educational standards when you produce guff like the above.
what was the true nature id say you need to look a little bit further back in history and see how this country began we came to this land and killed the people that lived here to take it over we should have wiped out iraq we need that oil we have greed we could have killed all of those in iraq put the jews guarding the oil wells and gas would be back to about a dollar
This was an invasion like any other, such as Iraq. Somalis knew this. People who intend to help don't land on your shores with guns, tanks and thousands of soldiers. People who have helped in the past have dropped medicine and food from airplanes. It didn't take a rocket-scientist to understand they were being invaded.
In order to understand why the Somalis acted in the manner they did, one must look at the history of western interest in the region for the last century. The horn of Africa has been a much desired, but very troublesome region for Americans and Europeans. For those of us who understood the dynamics of the region, we knew the U.S.'s so called 'humanitarian mission' was fraught with dangers. Somalians have always been fierce and proud people. Somalis can slaughter each other, but the minute a non-Somalian attacks any Somalian, everyone turns on that person.
Ethiopia and Somalia have handed down stunning defeats to their western opponents, who are much more heavily armed and better trained, in the last 100 years. The world still doesn't know why, but know better to stay away from the horn of Africa. This was nothing unexpected except for Americans and those with no historical understanding of the region.
they where there to capture the top lieutenants...and if you knew more bout this conflict u wouldve known the part where the marines were bringin in food for the people of somalia...i think you should find out a little more bout the conflict before posting nonsense
Alex...why were they trying to capture what you call the lieutenants, what the U.S. called warlords, aka Mohamed Farrah Aidid? Let's talk facts, and I will prove you to be more nonsensical using your own words...
So basically fkaClix you are saying we should not help others in need. Or more pointedly the US should stand by and watch millions starve because of ancient tribal and religious prejudices.
@James Brochtrup
Well well well. You're a master of loaded questions, ain't ya? Why don't we back up a bit here. The U.S. was not helping, but was invading Somalia. So, yes the U.S. should not have invaded Somalia, and as such there would not have been a need for this operation, and subsequent piece of propaganda which this doc is.
You call that a stunning defeat? We lost 15 guys, while Somalia lost way more than that I assure you. Besides, why would we stay there when we are going to get killed by the very people we were trying to help by giving them food and supplies? We have no personal interests in that nation except to help the people. Do you even think for a second America couldn't destroy Somalia in probably less than just a couple days? Even though I am a proud American, I know that one day we will decide not to help countries in need because of views like this, and we will have to watch others suffer because of these type of people who spread hate about Americans. Americans are becoming more sensitive everyday to the thought and images of our soldiers dying for others, and one day we will decide that our needs should come before the rest of the world... THAT is when people like you will have a REALLY good reason to hate America!
We're in the 21st century, with fledgling independent media and you're still drinking the cool-aid called TV! That's the only way you go about believing 'America is here to help' garbage! American and western governments have never been about help. They have been about looting natural resources from what they called third-world countries. The sooner they become unable to 'help', the better off the world would be. Please don't confuse the people of America with the government of America. Two different entities with vastly conflicting interests and intents. But you don't get that distinction by watching TV. Please seek a more realistic form of source for your information, and you'll help yourself from appearing like an ignoramus fool through comments like the above.
War is not like football - we lost 15 guys they lost 150 so we win by 135. You still haven't given an example of when Americans died for others, "Operation Iraqi Freedom?" Only a simpleton educated by Bill O'Reilly and Co actually feels aggrieved that the world is ungrateful for Americas altruistic actions. Thats why you all fell for
"They attacked us because they hate our freedom",
"Saddam is a danger to the world linked to Al qaeda",
"Kalshnikov wielding miscreants outwitted NORAD, The FAA, The CIA, FBI, DIA, NSA, US Airport security, - French, Israeli, Russian, British, German, Spanish, Indian and Italian intelligence services"
Before making judgments on the world it might be an idea to learn a little about it. The world does not hate america or all americans, Just the ignorant conviction that leads you to believe US puts the rest of the world before itself (and of course the system that convinces you of the lie).
Wait what? I am sure that if those images were not shown we would have stayed.
Wars are not won/lost just on the battlefield. I am sure you've heard of the term Psy-Op. Consider this a psy-op, African style.
And the wheel of ungrateful cowards continues to turns lol. People living under tyranny pray and hope for things to get better. But when such help comes along, the people almost always(not all of course) have the nerve to complain. As a whole, the liberated should be glad that help was even offered for the transitions necessary to remain liberated. That is like calling the police to stop someone from beating your head in, then getting mad at the police for also trying to clean up the neighborhood..
Yeah...how ungrateful of those Iraqis! Hey, we probably have killed about a million of them in an our 'pure' intent to liberate them from a dictator we propped up a couple of decades earlier, but what is a million lives between friends! Oh speaking of large numbers, let's forget about the billions in oil revenue that disappeared soon after our invasion of the country. After all, we liberated these ungrateful people from a dictator who slaughtered thousands of them, over the 20+ years he was in office. Yeah, we killed a thousand times as much in less than 4 years, but again we liberated you ungrateful people!
The logic here is impeccable! I had to enlist the help of my 7 year old to put it all together!
well said fkaClix
The only flaw that Americans have is that they are too kind.
That makes entirely a perfect sense; if your primary source of information is television.
That is just sickening that you would say such a thing.
The level of ignorance is beyond belief and your comment makes me ashamed of being a fellow human.
what? are you serious? you have absolutely no worldly concept. Try Madelline Albright who thought that the death of over half a million arab children was "worth it" when questioned in 1996 about the impact that US sanctions were having on innocent Iraqi children. Yes indeed you Americans are just too kind!
We will be looked down upon no matter what we do. So what remains is to follow our own interests.
When it comes to war there are no winners just losers .My father served in Vietnam I served in Iraq what I was doing there I didn't even know I'm from new Zealand no one attacked us.But I did my service as a soldier does and u go home there are some scars but u live with it and Sarge ur right u trained for everything except life after warfare .The situation in Somalia was stuffed someone jumped into help and the people turned on them but it doesn't give half witted idiots who have never seen combat the right to make remarks about other countries and those men who died over there.people forget if it wasn't for the allies in ww2 you wouldn't have that freedom .Everyone has a choice but with choices comes consequences .
Hmmm...you call us half witted idiots, although we chose to stay away from military service based on the horror stories we have heard, not to mention we considered the pros and cons, such as financing school vs being maimed, killed and emotionally disabled for life, and chose not to join the military. However, you, who have an immediate family member who served in the most deadly and barbaric war of modern era, still chose to join the military. You complain that you're never trained for life after war. Has it occurred to you as a soldier, your only purpose in life was to be used as a tool of intimidation and/or killing? Having put you in harms way to harm others, your handlers never had your welfare in mind. That too is a very obvious fact generation of soldiers refuse to see. I will not judge you as you have chosen to judge us, but I will leave the judgment to logic and reason.
Only israel( Mosad) can screw so called great america...single handedly!
America is great and the American soldiers are the best in the world and hold the highest of morality. They deserve much more respect than a pee-on who sits on his ass and tosses insults like a coward!
dam. these people are crazy
@ Dr Jack. You say sarcastically "a lot of people with ALL the answers" then claim to know the FACTS. Claiming your knowledge is superior to everyone else's' makes any following statements arrogant and suspect.
I am 64 years old. As a twenty-something a good friend was a draft evader. He was a brave man who loved his country but refused to go to a war that served no purpose and had no plan to win. Volunteering to serve in an immoral conflict is neither a wise or brave decision. Furthermore one need not be a soldier to criticize any more than one must be a criminal, politician, or a doctor to criticize one. In a comment just above this one I stated my sympathy for soldiers put in a bad situation.
If you think there are no rules in war you get Abu Ghraib, Guantanamo, and Me Lei. Not your proudest moments.
I do not question your motives for wishing to serve in your capacity and wish you success in your endeavor.
wow alot of people with ALL the answers. I only know these facts: The world is full of greedy and cruel people. Governments rarely have the best in mind for the general population the USA included. BUT there are still a few or many unselfish Americans of all ages , races and religions who have made a choice to serve our country. Without these people we have no country. Yes these people are often misused by Clinton and other a--holes and whatever other words they deserve. There is NO such thing as a CLEAN war and IF you chose war forget the rules or you will lose. Yes I said that because it is true.
For sarge and others ALL MY RESPECT AND THANKSI am a 59 yr old psychologist trying to enlist as there is a waiver for psych I would be honored to help these brave men and women .
The USA is in trouble name a country that is not but DO NOT criticize those who fight and die for our country unless you have earned the right by having been in the "Shit" Being Civil in war only gets more American skilled just ask any soldier who was in Nam! God Bless Our Troops sometimes our Coutry does not deserve them!
@ Ria
As much a I find your comments somewhat distasteful after seeing this doc I find myself having to agree with you. However, I feel so sorry for the soldiers who have been coerced by economics or a misplaced sense of patriotism to fight in these unneeded, unpopular, and ultimately immoral foreign wars. Somalia is a tragic case because of the initial good intentions.
Yes, perhaps you Americans should support your troops, but for your own good and for the good of the world, reign in your political masters, or resign yourselves to being the worlds bully and get used to the role of villain.
I think that USA should stay the hell away from Somalia,Ethiopia, Eritrea and Djibouti.You guys screwed Afghanistan,Iraq and Vietnam pretty badly.We don't want you racist leaders sending troops.The people disagree so stay the f*ck out.The people have the right to attack the US troops obviously you people are not welcomed there.
listen the US came here to help,that was great and very well appreciated i may say as a somali.they did so good of a job they felt it was time to go back home,i understood that back then and i went to see them fly off just the way i saw them fly in..few soldiers remained but u couldn't see them in town,then we heard the americans wanted to help somalis form a govt and that was the US biggest mistake.u said u came to help & u did that but getting involved in our political business good or bad is none of ur business thats a fact.now that wat happened is in the past let it be but dont get involved again,and im not just talking about somalia any country's business is not US business.
Brave brave men.
I find it so sad that after watching this all some of you can do is take pot shots at each other.... We are not at war, if you want someone to blame look to the governments!
Jon.
Just a small point to clear up one misconception. America declared war on Germany only AFTER Germany and Italy had declared war against the U.S. on Dec. 11, 1941, four days after Pearl Harbour. In any event, they likely would have at some point, but they weren't exactly spoiling for a fight with the Nazis because it was "the right thing to do".
@DG Did you forget what the nuclear bomb was designed to do? It's intentions were to end the war. Now, did America know about the after-effects. No. To say otherwise is moronic because the bomb was first detonated on July 16th, 1945. Now, I want you to look at the end of the war in Europe. Then Japan.
Europe would have been torn to shreds without the surrender, however, Americans would have NEVER bombed out germany because THE AMERICANS WERE IN GERMANY AS WELL AS THE RUSSIANS. My father was in WWII and had Germans surrendering to him whilst saying, "the Russians are the real enemy" due to the beheadings of the germans who were defending their own country. Now, Germany had its own faults too..but, it got to the point where German teens, the old, and the sick were defending Germany. Not the ever-so-famous Shutzstaffel or Whermacht.
Hiroshima was chosen over Tokyo to show the full extent of its power. Tokyo was already destroyed by firebombs and Hiroshima had its own military base that was basically unscathed by the war. And even though the Americans WARNED (You can argue but, Americans DID WARN the Japanese government - in which they did not and promised that they will fight to the last man) the Japanese government, the Japanese refused. Resulting in tragedy.
There wasn't enough time in testing to successfully see the full-scale damage of "The Bomb". They just saw a large boom, and used it to spare American lives. Was it wrong, maybe. Depends on who is telling the story.
Bottom line is, don't say America was "dragged" into saving the European Allies. America joined the European effort because Hitler was going to come after America next. The only mistake that virtually destroyed Hitler, was attack Russia.
You are a fool if you think the Americans did not know about radiation poisoning and the like Marie Curie first discovered what radiation was in 1896 not only this but a test done on July 16, 1945 confirmed the idea of nuclear fallout however it was rejected and completely crushed by the american government so that they could look like the innocent fools afterwards now I am not saying they should not have dropped the bomb as I cannot criticize as I was not there making the decisions at the time I am sure then it seemed like the best thing to do but do not believe that the government was as naive and innocent as they portray themselves to be.
Boys, everyone needs to know this golden rule:
"It's always easier to judge a decision and an operation from an armchair."
If you really have an issue with something. Don't blame the sword, blame your swordsman (politicians).
Proud Euro African, you're so wrong. The Africans were better off without "white" Euro interests. They only destabilized the whole African continent and destroyed their cultures. They created the borders they saw fit and removed cultural and tribal borders that were there for centuries.
The easiest way to get resources from another country is to make sure the local government is unstable or is working for the corporate interests itself. One way to do that is is to destroy the culture and belief system, Christians are great at that.
For decades the western nations have been dumping waste in Somalias fishing waters and killing off their biggest trade and food source. Oil and mining corporations have destroyed water supplies, homes and huge tracts of land because there is no stable government to govern. Even Coca Cola refuses to stop diminishing local water supplies and wells for their all important corporate profits. Bush completely stopped funding of all medical clinics that supported birth control, safe sex and performed abortions. So all the other medical treatments they practiced disappeared, vaccines, antibiotics, etc. This has enhanced the spread of AIDS and other diseases all over the African continent.
I have seen a doc a student made, from Nigeria I think. He went to all these Christian elders to ask about birth control, STD's and condoms. They all said the same thing, "Don't use a condom trust in God." The Catholic priest was the only one with common sense and said "You should be married before you have sex but if you do have sex before you get married, please wear a condom to help prevent getting or spreading AIDS."
America is not a Christian country, it is a secular democratic republic. Or at least that's what it was meant to be. These countries that are said to hate the west because of our way of life? Mostly propaganda. Well a minority of fundamentals do so do Christians hate Muslims for the same reason. What is not stated is that the west is hated for their corporate business practices. Practices that have ruined and raped smaller second and third world countries, selling arms to both sides of a conflict, installing the dictators they can work with, etc. Iran was in the process to nationalize their oil in 1952, couldn't have that so a CIA coup took place and the Shaw was put in place because that's what western oil companies wanted.
The Christians have backed these right wing corporate policies hand over fist.
I'm really sick of hearing how great and moral the Christians are. History tells a much different story though. Power, control, arrogance, greed and hypocrisy is what I see in many Christians. If you get down to fundamental aspects of Christian and Islamic beliefs, they are both willing to stone a women for adultery.
It seems that the ignorant "world view" of America has reared its ugly head something fierce in this neck of the woods, so I will say my piece and get the hell out of here. We have at least a couple of massive rednecks here that have that annoying knack of entertwining christianity with the U.S. government even though it says in the Constitution that church and state are two seperate bodies.
Knock it off! All you are doing is making all Americans look like the stereotypical islamophobic meatheads that a lot of people already assume we are. Of course, we also have no shortage of you "Kill America! Let the pig-dogs burn!" types, and you too need to knock it off! You are just making yourselves out to be these ill-informed che-guevarians mindlessly spouting anti-western sentiment picked up through generations of learned hatred. This is whats up, point blank. Those who fight for what they believe in (family, country, god, etc.) should always be regarded as heroes, if not a little misguided.
As far as government leaders go, in this situation or others, two very important rules must be remembered but are often overlooked. The first being that hind-sight is 20/20. At the time, Clinton thought that the decisions made after this specific incedent were the most sound, given the options at hand. Second of all, any government decision should plotted out like an elaborate chess game. People are starving in Somalia, so we go through the motions of a humanitarian/public relations mission to solve this problem. But now, the warlords and bandits causing the problem are killing the U.N. aid workers.
This particular chess game has a few different potential moves at this point. The best one is to try and take out the biggest of the many threats, thus solving the problem for now. If the decision weren't so poorly executed, both through high-up folly and plain old bad luck, Somalian pirates might not exist. Then again, if "its" and "buts" were candy and nuts, we'd all have a merry Christmas. Point is, the government makes all of their decisions 5 at a time, and the only way to know how things will turn out for sure is through experience.
This goes for ALL governments. The people on the other hand, have nothing to do with government's decisions, yet are constantly under fire by people opposing systems of government or faith. What we all have to remember is that just because an American missile takes out a village somewhere, it doesn't mean that all Americans are murderers. And just because a Muslim suicide bomber blows up a mall or something, it doesn't mean that all of Islam is are terrorists. It would be that kind of mentality that keeps us killing each other as time goes on...
can't we all just get along?
ALL governments lie
ALL troops die in battle to benefit the funders of war
Funders of war win regardless of who wins or who dies
History is written by the victorious who make themselves out to be the heros. This fact will never change.
It is funny to see how blacks try to justify Africa's barbarism and primitiveness..The fact stands that when Africa was a place where people worn skins and lived in mud huts Europeans came and uplifted it..yes there where some negative things that happend but Africa benefitted from the positive things.. What some blacks dont understand is that you are the only racists here..Whites are far past playing the racecard everytime..You need to stop blaming colonialism and slavery for your mistakes and primitiveness and start to grow up.
The UN and Nato do their best to keep global peace because one rogue president or militant group threaten the secuirity of the whole world, not just the country where they operate..
If you want to comment on soldiers mistreating black somalie citizens who probably posed a threat come and have a look in South Africa where black criminals rape,torture and kill whites and then we can speak again about mistreatment
The documentary admitted that US intelligence failed. US forces attacked and killed the wrong Somalians, leading to an uprise by the people there. The soldiers did their job and did it well, but their leaders upstairs fumbled.
The US is notorious for saying one thing and doing another, especially when it comes to political leaders. The Clinton Administration claimed that the US was there to help the people and--at first--it really appeared that way. The documentary, however, even clearly shows that the strategy shifted from a humanitarian effort to something more like what we later saw in Iraq.
Okay, so if this is, in fact, true, who benefits from a Somalian takeover by US (and UN) forces? Think geopolitically. Mogadishu is a strategic location for Middle Eastern efforts, which includes oil fields and stabilizing the Persian nations. When 1993 failed, Iraq's so-called WMDs became the new window of opportunity.
Again, who benefits? Once the Middle East is stabilized and American corporations/contractors begin their reach for the oil reserves, only those with monetary and political interests stand to gain anything. To be more specific, Wall Street and idealists with a global agenda are the winners.
Out of all the starving and socially decimated nations in the world, why would the Clinton Administration focus so heavily on Mogadishu? Going back to 1993, more than a handful of nations in Africa and outside suffered equally if not more.
Always ask the question, "Who benefits?" Nobody benefited from that disaster in 1993, not even the globalists. Had the intelligence and leadership been successful, though, the answer is more obvious: the people there ... and those with hidden agendas, namely political interests back in Washington.
Soldiers who were there complain that Clinton pulled out. Strategically the effort was a waste. American solders were dragged through the street, the US politicians not in on the globalist agenda revolted, and the Somalians had become Vietcong.
Iraq became a better ruse.
If the equation is kept simple, then anybody can do the math. Soldiers by nature, though, are not politicians ... but it would be nice if some of those globalists in power today borrowed some of the courage and integrity the average soldier displayed back in 1993. We might live in a better world, then, and see fewer Vietnams.
@ Sarge
i respect ur words about that all it matters when the bullets start flying its all about surviving and watching for ur self and the man next to u.
but i don`t agree much that all the conspiracy theories aren`t true , some of them makes v.good sense, specially the 1 about controlling people through media and money.
but i respect ur way of seeing things.
@Anthony
while i do agree with ur point of view especially in the last paragraph
i find the word ignorant while addressing me is way to insulting, cause i think my english is understandable and readable considering its not my basic language.
and because u did got what i was talking about, didn`t u?
I'm a little skeptical about this film, seeing as it's put together by the History Channel. However, I did find a lot of consistency from what I recall watching the actual movie "Blackhawk Down." If the reasons for the US being in Somali are as they've been portrayed (humanitarian first and foremost) then I'd be inclined to agree with the objective to take the warlord into custody. With that said, I don't agree with Clinton having the troops tuck tail and run. A very bad move IMO. The objective should have been completed and consequences dealt with afterwards. First gulf war ring a bell here?
@moe. Don't be sorry for writing so much. Be more sorry for being lazy enough to look ignorant using text speak (internet ebonics).
@Sarge. Come on, Sarge. With all due respect, if you've studied history in depth for so long, you should be able to cut through some of the BS you've read. I can tell just from your last paragraph that you buy right into mass media barrage of hype and propaganda by using the term "wingnut." If we are reduced to casting stones, then one might consider you to be a gung-ho patriotic ignorant sheep. Follow the leader, right over the cliff, type of guy. Myself, I know that couldn't be true with a nic like "Sarge." You good sir, don't drink the kool-aid. Once you open your mind, your a** will follow.
If you and others who commented above have truly served in the military, then I commend you... one and all. What I don't commend is overtly corrupt government officials, black ops via the CIA nor the war on for our minds. Very few wars the US has been involved in, that we actually had any business in. While I have the utmost respect for members of the armed forces and the sacrifices they (and their families) have had to endure, I find it despicable that most of the wounded and casualties of past wars/conflicts have been for reasons other than what was portrayed.
@moe,
There is nothing cocky about war or combat. When it comes down to it, when the bullets start flying, politics and all that garbage goes out the window, at that point it becomes about the man next to you. You watching his back and he's watching yours. It's all about survival.
I also see you believe all the wingnut conspiracy theories out there. Don't drink the koolaid and believe all the hype and propaganda that the media (Egyptian or American) puts out there. I've been studying history very in depth for many years and about 95% of the conspiracy theories are incorrect if not out and out lies. By the way I do agree with you that our Government should keep there noses out of other counties business most of the time.
you cocky americans, what goes around comes around,
your government brain wash you so you think you actually saving the world , open up ur eyes.
you are controlled by the federal bank that hold debt on ur successive governments, and it drags u into wars so the governments ask for more loans and more interest leading to more control over you. e.g. vietnam was never meant to be won because it was a lose lose situation but though the government kept taking loans to buy weapons and financing the war as long as they could to keep the americans in under loans and in the gears of the machine.
another example , iraq ur government faked intelligence info. to justify the war , no MDWs were found what so ever the real cause was the iraqi petroleum to get halliberton to the top of petroleum services and and sucking all the petroleum they can get. ur soldiers die there to insure ur rulers get richer. not for " peace and fight against terror and humanity causes"
i`m am an egyptian and we don`t hate americans ( ask ur people who comes as tourists) but we do hate ur rulers.
and for all the soldiers that commented up there about the cruelty of warfare yeah u r right my father was a thunderbolt soldier " something like special forces " and i know its hard and that a brave soldier gotta do what he gotta do. he is just following orders no matter what. my sympathy to ur casualties , but sorry to say ur loss does not mean u r right.
the only way to cut down your losses is to force your country to stop sticking its nose in other countries affairs.
sorry for writing to much
so wish peace be upon u all
YES WE ARE SO COCKY YOUR D*** SHRIVELS FROM THE THOUGHT OF IT
@ young,
thank you for your kind words and respect.
I like what Sarge and Andrew have to say. As a civilian I appreciate the insight and think you both conducted yourselves respectfully in the face of such harsh critism. That's more than I can I say for the rest of the arguements here on both sides.
Now to a more important message,
Mike Martinez, May god bless you, and I pray that your inner demons will some day fade away. Mine have started to, but I know I didn't see anywhere near the hell that you rangers and the d-boys went through. You can find me on the together we served website. I'm proud to call you a comrad in arms. HOOAH!
Adan, obviously you're the one with a fried brain (what kind of drugs you smokin' man?) as you have no real concept of reality. If you think you know so much about combat, I suggest you give it a try. I'd like to see how long you last before you pee your pants, suck your thumb and go home cryng to mommy.
sarge it seems wev'e walked more than a mile,just different situations...god bless u..and thanks HOOAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ladies and gents, when the movie came out i was hesitant to go see it,being in somalia in 93 i lost 8 rangers from my unit,what was an extacction became a rescue,mission not to mention the biggest test of my life, the will to fight a what feel like a loosing situation,faith and just plain simple kill or be killed,see in the service u are mentally prepaired for just about any combat situation but what the service don't teach is what happends when u return from your tour[if u return]...it's not easy but we went in there with a plan and quickly had to abort the mission by the time i got home i went to 8 funerals and till this date16 years later i feel the mental scars..u are never tha same.....i walked out half way thru the movie...........
Sarge - I will let the choice of your words make the case for me as what kind of fried brain that is inside your skull.
Thank you, Sir.
Andrew, I like your style.
HOOAH!
Well, if you don't mind, I'll put my two cents worth in. As a retired soldier who had boots on the ground in Mogadishu, Abdul YOu and Jota are all wet. You don't know your behind from a hole in the ground. As for the rest of you, those of you that have served, thank you for your service. for the rest of you, until you've walked a mile in my "boots" don't pass judgments on something you know nothing about other then what you may have read in the paper or seen on TV. This documentary was very well done and tells about as much of the story as you can in an hour and a half. Mr. Angry Serb, sir, I respect your views and insight. The biggest problem, which was spelled out in the documentary, was the "Clintoon" White house. In the beginning Bush Sr sent in the Marines and the Army, to prevent food shipments from being stolen by the clans. That mission was turned over to the UN. when the Pakistani's were killed, the UN cried and Clinton sent in the rangers and Delta to get Ahdid. the rest as they say is history and covered in the documentary.
@Mike tho thnk u ur nations help was gr8ly appreciated
@Mike US never intended to go to war in Euro jus 2 eliminate japan as they wer th primary enemy of US however hitler decided 2 go 2 war with US to defend allie thus draggin US fully in2 war. also US planned on nuking germny (until thy surrendrd) nd th fallout would hav destroyed euro
Alex - You are right, European history has not had centuries of bloody warfares from Kingdoms to 19th-20th century nationalism right? Romans never fed other white people to beasts for entertainment.
It is just African people who have/had warfare, you are not saying that to soothe the itching hate that you feel towards blacks. You are right? Right?
big surprise savage africans...i dont know why people even waste a penny towards sending any sort of aid to these warring animals
Ok, I wasn't going to post on here, but it got too far. My father, his father, his father and countless other uncles have fought and died for America's cause and her people. When shit hits the fan, someone has to clean it up. At least our great nation has enough honor to attempt to make this world a better place. Its amazing how you can talk bad about us in Iraq and Vietnam, but how about us in Honduras and Panama? My father was gone for weeks on end several times for peacekeeping missions in those places and nobody ever fired a shot!
I had two great uncles, brothers in law in fact, that were both fighter pilots in WWII. However, one fought in Europe and one over Iwo Jima. They were both wounded for YOUR asses. But the few times we do make bad choices you dog us. If I was asked, I would go to any hell hole on this planet for anyone because if its what it takes to, in the end keep us safe, I'll do it.
I am a 4th generation soldier and I know that war is rough. It ain't fun and games. You go out and watch your friends scream as they slowly waste away and die! Then you wouldn't think twice of putting a boot on someones face. We may not be perfect, but we have done more good than bad. I have studied war, and we have been on the front lines helping anyone who asks. HOOAH!!!
hay adul u mite think that america was doin the wrong thing but did u see them crazy somalins drag those bodys thru mogadishu hang them those people r crazy
Okay, that's enough.
Next time there is a World War 2 type threat, let the s.o.b.s burn. We saved Europe...twice! For this?!
Screw Europe. Fight your own battles.
Oh, and...Better brush up on your Koran.
Now you listen to me Americans! The average amount of b....... shown on your television is very depressing because of it's size and the enthusiasm with which your journalists represent it.
However this show is not a part of it. It is a true story and a testament to the stupidity of the Clinton administration. Their biggest failure was the total misunderstanding of Islam and it's principals. Take it from us Serbs we have lived under Islamic rule for nearly 500 years, the only reason why have we stayed Orthodox Christian is because we were their frontier province and they didn't need much shit there.
But the most important thing to understand is that all Christians living under a majority Muslim rule are generally not considered human. They had a name for us then it was "raya" and it means cattle. They took away our children to serve as their soldiers.
This is why we hate them, they were treating us like cattle for more then 400 years and they enjoyed it. A Muslim could kill an Christian at leisure (the only thing preventing them was the possibility of revenge and uprising which anyways often happened), they could take your daughter virginity at leisure, they were impaling on high wooden sticks anyone who opposed them and was captured.
The Muslims are like the Borg from Star Trek. This is the way Islam works and the way it's philosophy is based on. They dream of forming the "Ummah" (some call the current Muslim states all together an Ummah but the truth is the real "Ummah" will be when everyone is a Muslim and Islam is the only religion on the planet) and you need to understand they will stop at nothing to achieve it!
Secondly Islam is a religion of degeneration's that oppresses women massively by for example not allowing them to be educated etc. etc. They are a religion of copycats that has never invented anything. For example: All their mathematical breakthroughs were in fact a combination of Indian and ancient Greeks mathematics (the Arab numbers everyone uses today are actually Indian ones) whose research they stole and proclaimed their own. The world is today about 25% Muslim yet do they have a space program? No! Do they have plane, car, anything manufacturing in muslim county's? No with the exception of gun copying and some tank projects.
Clinton made a mistake by choosing to stand behind the Muslims on the Balkans and even today you keep supporting Albanians Muslims on Kosovo instead of Christian Serbs who, might I add, were always you're allies in every war up to recently. He thought he will get on their (Muslim) good side like this. He didn't understand that Muslims have no good side. Oh by the way if you wanna see what happens to Christian or Jewish or any other people under Islam Google up on: The Armenian Genocide of the 1915. That is Islam and Muslims on their real and only side. even today everywhere where Islam is in contact with other religions there is war. That is what I mean when I say that they are just like the Borg from Star Trek "Resistance is futile! You will be assimilated!"
Anybody that takes what is presented in this documentary as 'the truth' is as easy to manipulate as a child. Its heavily over dramatised, with an illusive lack of humanity. Great propoganda to get american soldiers fired up and ready to sign up and go save the world by blowing it to smitherines. Dont ever let the US armed forces loose on a country, they are guaranteed to do more harm than good. Remember vietnam? The fact is you dont help a country by pointing a gun at it.
Accidenaly I returned to the same place, and since it happened to be here, I felt like responding to some of the comments appeared meanwhile.
For instance, to "Jota": If I say "This bulding is beautiful/ugly" is perfectly normal and resonable. If I say "This building is defectuos", unless I have knowledge about the plans behind it, the capability of understanding them, given by training and experience, and the complete observation of the construction process, is simply wrong. We have to respect opinions, as we require ours to be respected too, but when we don´t have nothing else but third hand theories, we should not state such things and present them as lemmas. We don´t have this authority and we find ourselves in the position of hurting innocent people. After that, it´s impossible to withdraw a word already said. Of course, you might agree with me or not. In case of the second situation, maybe this is not the place for us to meet...
@Ben: Very simplist...and offending also. Wherever you are, since you have the right to write these words it is because of this degenerated society we live in (U.S., Canada, Europe, Australia, Japan, South Corea, New Zeeland, etc.). Not speaking about the right to like or dislike anything, to believe or not in anything you want, to leave or to stay, to discover or...not, to fight or...not.
@Eli: Always, everything has a certain price. Sounds very cinical, but it´s the sad reality. Many times, people mistake and place themselves in the wrong side in order to survive, physically or ideologically. For those who share their believes or positions, they will be heroes too. What can you do?
Also, if you really believe that these days somebody gives his life for the country only, you are an utopian dreamer. It has a certain importance, undoubtly, but mostly, modern soldiers serve for money and the belief in what means the military career, that lately combines with the police career because of the field realities.
Insulting any religion is wrong, because it means insulting good people too. Questioning religious arguments it isn´t. Joey, you made some points, but you crossed the line...
This is how I see these things. If I´m wrong, I´m sorry, but it´s my right, isn´t it?
In a follow up this is directed at Joey considering I think I did a decent job in the above post at approaching the anti-US view. Now I will go onto your remark. While I respect your pro-American stance obviously, some of your comments would only anger those who believe in the religion that you just insulted. You say that you are very religious, and I am assuming you believe yourself to be tolerant, well by saying retards and islam is just pure rubbish. To think that all muslims believe in the downfall of America is pure ignorance and a lack of understand of their religion. I'm not preaching that I know a great amount about islam, but I do know that saying you're not racist (which technically has nothing to do with religion) and then insulting the religion is not a great way to create a good image for your country.
To honestly say that the United States has never had good intentions is just downright moronic. WWII is a perfect example, if the US didn't bravely fight and enter on two very different fronts and achieve victory this world would have been a completely different place. To treat us as the villains in every thought just shows your hatred to a country that has indirectly affected your life in a positive way. One can tell your predisposition and is of learned dislike.
I am no soldier, I am American, but being that doesn't cloud my vision of the truth. The world is a messed up place, no doubt about it, the US is completely included, but to honestly say that we're practically the root of all evil is just humorous and stupid. Simply put in your attitude Americans can do no right, we are flawed in every way, yet you are defending the people who commit genocide, and are saying that even though our mission was to protect those, we were willingly killing civilians.
It funny how you think that we just want to kill people, its laughable to think that we actually go around shooting people for the fun of it, and do not say that is not your message, but to anyone not completely biased would notice that.
And just a little history lesson/reality check, the United States has a certain responsibility among the world's eyes, since WWII of being the predominant peacekeeping force. Do you really think that the US wants to have to go in and clean up others peoples' messes? If we don't do such things we will be chastised by countries around the world. We are in a catch-22, we are always going to be the blame no matter what. Sometimes I wish we could relinquish all of our responsibilities, but I'm sure this world wouldn't be nearly as nice of a place as it is presently.
JD, sounds like someone needs to step out of bootcamp, hit the books and learn that your country never has had and never will have good intentions. only someone schooled in an Americanized, Europeanized version of a prison for bodies not needed for your well oil machine would think the U.S., the big bully of the world would have good intentions. Your peace missions always have a price, usually bodies, usually women and children.
Just one more thought to G.H. most of us do not look forward to the day when we may have to pull that trigger but we accept it as a possibility and train accordingly. While like any organization there are a few bad apples but they are few and far between and we have a Rules of Engagement to keep them in check that are so restrictive that unless you can positively ID the individual shooting you can not return fire. We are victims of Hollywood the ignorant (your not stupid you just don't know any better) picture Jesse Ventura packing old painless not the professional soldier trained for one shot one kill and not to engage unless absolutely necessary.
I am a solider and those men and women that I consider brothers are heroes. What many of you do not know is that the mission in Somalia was originally a humanitarian mission we were there to protect foreign aid workers and food shipments. Bandits under local warlords or in business for them selves would steal the food and medical supplies intended for the starving people and keep what they wanted then sell the rest. Aidid was not the only one just one of the most powerful and no matter how successful we could be in stopping the bandits while we were there things would go right back to business as usual as soon as we left so to help those people we needed to remove him and his kind from power otherwise short term success would not last in the big picture. Everybody concentrates so much on what went wrong because that is big news nobody knows about the thins that went right. The military is like any other comfort item to most of you you never give your phone a second though until it doesn't work but when you can't order your pizza the somebody is going to catch hell. All of the armchair quarterbacks should do a little research before they start badmouthing the men and women who ensure that they have the right to talk bad about them.
Well, I just saw the documentary a few minutes ago. What I don't understand is that american soldiers are willing to kill other human beings (and don't tell me it's "for their country". They just want a good time toting weapons and thinking that makes them strong), but when they get hit/killed it's a national tragedy. Boohoo!! You're willing to kill? Then be prepared to die also (that doesn't apply only to american soldiers, of course. I feel the same about any human being who doesn't seem to have a problem pumping lead into another human being, OTHER than in an act of self-defence).
Can anyone tell me what negative reasons America had being there? I haven't heard one. I really believe we weren't there to just be abusive. On the other hand, their local rulers were kings of misery. At least we were trying to fix that.
I don't understand why everyone is acting like all the actual individuals involved are animals. Support the troops! The soldiers didn't decide to be there. You weren't there, you don't know the real life circumstances. It's so easy to sit here knowing who is who, what is what, how it would end, etc. They didn't. They were doing as they were trained, conditioned. Just as the Somalis were conditioned to do what they did. The men there risked there lives for something they thought better. They ARE heroes. Saying this account should be placed in archives next to any kind of Holocaust film is ridiculous, and even sickening to me, think about what you're saying.
Dangerous propaganda!
Who do you Northamericans think you are?
The word is a battlefield on which you are defending the MickeyMouse values of your degenerated society! And do you give your "rangers" mobile Phones to film interesting war situations? You are really decadent, aren't you?
"The True Story of Black Hawk Down is a reminder of the bravery and determination of our armed forces".
Give me a break, please!
Enough of cheap military propaganda!!!
That`s too much "macho man with big bowls, big guns... and sometimes a big heart" for me to hold on.
United States are not God, and their army aren't the holy angels. They are men trained to... OBEY AND KILL! And that is what they do. And guess what... everybody in the world (outside USA) knows that. Simple like that.
There is no Heavy Kingdom waiting for us in a world dominated by the USA, because a country that needs war to be respected is the same like a father that, in the name of love, beats is own sons to have respect from them. Like always, in the end the sons will revolt against him and hate him forever.
This kind of documentaries have only one purpose: to throw sand in the eyes of people and brainwash them. They should be archive aside the filmages of Nuremberg, starring Hitler and Co.
@Joey
Some of your claims I am inclined to agree with. Others not so much. You say he should have finished the job but also say that they shouldn't be their in the first place. Also you say you are religious but then talk about who America should be killing(this actually doesn't come as much of a suprise).
I hope you can understand that while the American Armed Forces seem like hero's to you, to those who are being shot at they seem like nothing close. It seems to me like it's the American government who takes advantage of your many couragous hero's. But you seem to be mad at both the government that sends them to war and the people they are sent to "liberate".
America can be any kind of religious country they want to be, but when they impose their will and ideal's on other cultures and nation their will be a resistance. This should be exspected and understood.
You tell them joey!USA!
For everyone who has bad mouthed our American Heroes and who has bad mouthed our country in these comments,Go To Hell!!! They had a legit reason to be in there and all the stupid Somali people that attacked them and protected the bastard that was starving them should have died. You people who disrespect our American Heroes are the ones who should be mutilated and drug through the streets.
That sorry excuse for a president Clinton should be brought up on war crimes for not sending our boys in to finish the job. Which was blowing those filthy stinking b****** to hell for doing those awful things to our American Heroes. The only reason those trash people were victorious is because bill Clinton is a p****.Our boys didn't loose this fight. They were obstructed from finishing it. As for the intentions most of the ones we help we should be killing anyway. We shouldn't have been over there trying to help a bunch of stinking Muslims.
There the b****** who want to kill us .Nor should we be in Haiti. We are a Christian Nation not a demonic nation nor a Muslim nation. Haiti serves the devil and Muslim serve retarded dude who doesn't even have enough letters in his name to make a name. I'm not racist by far I'm religious. I believe everyone has the right to believe what they want but when My Country is threatened or innocent people in other countries are being abused by by so called Muslim leaders (clearly in Somalia Allah wants his people to die of starvation).
Some almighty god huh we should try to help them. Let me leave by saying this. There is no such thing as innocent people in war. They're called casualties. We're not gonna tell people we're coming. We're not gonna go in and evacuate women and children. Just like Osama didn't evacuate the trade centers on 9/11. What they should do is duck and cover and ask Allah to save them.
M.N - If you are trying to help an injured lion, don't expect that it won't try to kill you. That is the best analogy I can find for the U.S - Somalia encounter. Very few of the Somali population have an education, most of them are reactionary and have fear of white people altogether. From Musolini to Bill Clinton, they wouldn't know the difference or care, the association of WHITE MAN = DEVIL= DANGER has been cemented in the mind of the average uneducated Somali person. That is the only thing that can explain why you were seeing those young Somali men and women stepping on the dead American body with a big smile, they sincerely believe that they have killed a devil.
Somalis have a culture of poetry and story telling, just go to any diaspora community and see men get together in coffee shops, hours and hours sharing stories and chatting about worldly issues. So their action towards the Americans is really a reflection of centuries of accumulated tales (true or not) in dealing with westerners.
There are stories of Musolini soldiers keeping Somali prisoners alive in long walks so the war dogs can have fresh meat. A somali person was untied whenever it was time to feed the dogs, and the soldiers in turn got a dose of "Gladiator" style entertainment.
When American soldiers first came, it was a celebration, afterall they had Aideed's son dressed in American uniform so the Somalis put their hopes up saying that these Americans are different kind of white people afterall, but obviously that hope was quickly smashed as rockets started to rain on some unarmed elders.
I lived in the west for 20 years, I have university education and a career, but even myself I am not certain what the true intentions of the U.S gov't is in world affairs. The invasion of Iraq made me into a cynic, so what hope does uneducated, malnutrioned mind has in understanding any good intentions with such actions???
I noticed that here, just like in so many other places, there are people who know everything...
I personaly find this documentary very well done and balanced. I also have lots of admiration for the bravery of these soldiers. It´s sad that they didn´t spare so many lives, but as a former soldier, due to those conditions, I understand them. What I don´t agree is the withdraw ordered afterwards, especialy that they were more other countries involved in the UN coalition force. But afterall, love imposed by force is not love. The somalies didn´t take the given hand then, so 17 years later they are just in the same mess they were those days.
One more thing that amuses me is that certain people believe that they are the holders of the key of the book of truth. They oftenly forget that army is not police, that it´s a sword not a scalpel. On the other hand soldiers are human beings. They get nervous, angry, frustrated, stressed, etc. They are expected to have a rough language. Yes, about the group of elders being killed by the hellicopters, it realy was a mistake (as far as we suppose that they were innocent. Let´s not forget that mistakes, even bigger, oftenly happen in such situations, especialy that lately it´s almost impossible to identify an enemy threat among the civilians. But, only they do wrong, isn´t it?
Boots on the faces of somali citizens? C´mon! Being in their situation, what would be your behaviour, Abdul?
The real reason for which I write these words is that I don´t agree with this spectator nerve sindrome. They done this, they do that, so they are bad, they occupy,etc., meanwhile we stay in front of our computers or TV´s and give notes. At least USA gaved it a try, of course with the other nations, to intervent in Somalia, to rescue them from a hunger caused disaster. Others just prefer to look sideways and criticez on those who surely won´t hurt them in any way. Then Somalia lost it´s chance to a better life, but not entirely for the population´s fault. The people were brain washed, otherwise it´s impossible to understand their reaction reguarding to those who were giving them food, and the support for their opressor, Aidid. Maybe, if they are so weak they deserve their destiny.
A detail that makes me laugh is that militia man saying at the end of the documentary: "We defeated the americans". You´re right, man! You won! You protected your...NOTHING!
P.S. For the case, I´m not american and I don´t live in the USA
"A detail that makes me laugh is that militia man saying at the end of the documentary: "We defeated the americans". You´re right, man! You won! You protected your...NOTHING! "
Clearly that guy said americans left us in somali language.. in no means he declared or claimed any victories but it was translated we defeated..
I hope all is not lost but that was the chance we missed and 20 yrs later we are in same situation.. I really apprecaite the effort of the US part but no one can deny that something terribly went wrong. You just dont bite the hand that feeds you, we are not that kind of people.
To M.N.
My comment which did not include any profanity or extreme views got deleted, simply because I stated that this show is misleading and scripted much like the movie itself, on a template of Hollywood: The Good the Bad and the Ugly. America had good intentions, but surely was not in the role of the "Good", and this documentary does not shine any light on the incompetance of key U.S officials involved in this saga.
The U.S were there as part of a peacekeeping force as requested by the UN. Aidid was the architect of this tragedy not the Americans. If the world had cared at all about Somalia, even as much as the Americasn, this tragedy could have been averted and Somalia may have become a country once again. However, Aidid was able to capture the hearts and minds of the people of Mogadishu, contributing no end to Somalias continuing instability. To say the Americans were out of line in this conflict is completely misguided as it was in fact the barbaric warlords tearing the country apart who should have been brought to justice.
bfearn,
One must realize that often, it's more than just merely attacking America. Sadly, our world takes part in a nasty cycle, where one attack leads to another and then another in retaliation and so forth. This concept is developed in Ron Paul's book, where he speaks about "blowback." Check it out sometime.
Sometimes, attacking America or the hatred for America has nothing to do with one's own country but instead, with what was done to other countries. It really is a sad cycle..
This happened in Somalia. I didn't know that Somalia had attacked America. Seems like a stupid thing to do but America has to go get everybody who attacks the "homeland". Strange how so many countries continue to attack America.
They didn't show the early images when U.S came to Mogadishu, how people were all excited and welcoming.
They didn't deeply discuss the American soldiers disdain for the average Somali "Skinny!". In Iraq/Afghanistan it is the "Rug head". Lack of discipline!
They didn't show footages by other media showing disdain turn into boots being pressed on the face of Somali citizens.
They didn't acknowledge that American killing of unarmed collection of elders was the point of no return.
They instead scripted this documentary in a digestable template of a typical hollywood story. The bad guy "Aideed", stealing supplies from the poor and the "good Americans" trying to fight for justice.
The truth is way more complex, people who made key decisions screwed up, and everyone who died that day, died for nothing! Zilch!
now we need to look into vietnam and the countless crimes committed by this "great" armed forces, not to say they are all like that but its certainly help through to the war in iraq...