Letter from Poland
7.87
Ratings: 7.87/10 from 31 users.
Film about the controversies, incompetency and manipulations surrounding the investigation of the Polish president plane crash in Smolensk, Russia, on April 2010. The movie was made and aired by the Netherlands public TV station.
Do you believe in the Russian explanation of this plane crash, keeping in mind that the poor civilian who videotaped the crash, and caught on video soldiers shooting survivors, was stabbed seriously a few days later, hospitalized, and then murdered in his hospital bed.
Having watched the first and last part of this again many moons later... it seems the moral of the story is that it is not wise to fly with the President of a country that has leadership that is not desirous of empire building or a govt having been bought by greedy multinational corporations; russian and usa respective to the descriptions and the sequential order (but no other respect). A man involved with it, the usa govt advance man offering bribes to South American presidents to hand over the mineral wealth, typically oil, of their country to the usa based multinational corporations, wrote about his role in the matter and made it available online(or someone did). His historical account is quite telling. Described the demise of those presidents, by plane crash, who refuse his offers and subsequent threats by those coming after.
Is it that preposterous for the power hungry advantage taking manipulative Marxist EU leadership or Russia or both in concert, to take action to cause a nation (like Poland for instance) to have a more favorable policy towards the desires of EU and/or Russia?
Sure it could have been an accident ...but who in their right mind would convince so many, 95, officials from the same country to fly in the same plane, unless s/he was working for the best interests of the EU and/or Russia? In 2007-2016 please tell us how to get only 3 or 4 officials (along with their bankster puppetmasters who tell them what to do) from this country into such a plane.
If you wish, you can search youtube for usa congress testimony + cia in media. CIA has its people manipulating the news for many decades. Fact not conspiracy theory. Yet it is an actual conspiracy to manipulate public opinion; not theory. Much the same as "silkop", "charlieb" above desire to manipulate opinion as "nothing to see here, go watch something else". What does "silkop" stand for? What kind of "op"? Oh yes, silky smooth operation.
Who cares what the majority of Poles believe? The masses of most any country are foolish in not wanting to believe bad things. Most are ostriches indoctrinated by the perpetrators of cover ups, the govt-media complex, to consider any conspiracy theory to be from wackos. Were these people interviewed wackos? Hardly.
Ever heard of collateral damage? Say 3000 who died in 911 twin towers or all the other people in the plane Bill Clinton's Commerce Secretary Ron Brown was in when it magically flew into a mountain? Magically saved Clinton a lot of grief.
People are so lame, they refuse to investigate, preferring to believe the thing that causes the least amount of stress to their pillow heads. Like lemmings they nod their heads to the propaganda machine, the tv news and prefer to believe they have been informed when the exact opposite is true.
How about looking into the other people associated with Hillary Clinton who have met untimely deaths. Vince Foster was not the last, several more in recent times. Have you heard or read? Likely not.
People choose to be mushrooms. To sit there in the dark and be fed full of shyte. There was a Docu on here not so long ago where ex cia agents spoke out about what they did and what went on there. Those who desire to believe govt is good and that they are just people trying to do good, ought to take a close look at that docu. The agents in their own words what they did. Then you may have a clue. However, the likes of silkop, etc would try to claim they were disgruntled or some nonsense to sway anyone who hadn't watched it.
Everyone knows false flag operations have been going on for years!
I'm Polish. I'm son of officer that used to be a pilot of TU-154m. I believe in accident. Polish pilots made a mistakes. There were under the huge pressure. Same in Georgia. After Georgia issue pilots were fired. They had to land in Smolensk otherwise they would be fired as well. Few years before there was pretty same accident with polish highest soldiers. It was a mistake of pilots.
Of course we do not trust in Russia investigation. Russia as a country is our enemy, Russians as a people are our comrades. We always remember that. For sure Russians won't help us to figure out the reason of this crash.
Movie says many times. Most of polish people do not believe it was accident, in official story etc... MOST of polish people believe in official story. MOST of us do not believe in this conspiracy crap and are really tired of crazy people trying to force us to believe. Movie is very nonobjective, and there is many non true statement in it...
Excuse me, but since when Turkey is a millitary power in Eastern Europe, alongside Poland? In eastern europe Poland and MAYBE Romania&Bulgaria combined represent the military power.
Middle Ages are long gone alongside with the ottomans, who indeed represented an European military presence.
Jesus people
I guess Putin could do it – for some idiotic reason in the face of the world. Now looking back at the incident, what exactly he has gained killing the polish government as his guests? When it comes to considering a conspiracy as an explanation, I am more inclined to think it's some kind of anti-Putin organization that pulled the plan – in order to discredit Putin, to earn him enemies in the world, perhaps to bring down his regime. Did not work – or only the embarrassment part.
Does anyone know where I can purchase this as a DVD? Thank you!
rubbish
There is no conspiracy about it. Putin did it, the truth right in fronf ot us. Soviets always liked Polish ground. It is just what happened in 1940 in Katyn, when Stalin killed over 20000's of Polish. When some time later, Polish PM at the time W?adys?aw Sikorski, met with Stalin and asked about these murders, he was assured they were murdered by the nazis. The soviets covered up the whole story until 1990, 50 years after the massacre they admitted who was responsible. 50 years. So the truth behind Smolens we might get to hear in 2060, if we're lucky. Will anbody be ever hold responsible for the murders of Polish president and other dignitaries? Unfortunately, Poland is not USA, we have no power to Invade couple of countries in the middle-east and then call it self-deffence, so as we do not have power to attack Russia. One thing is certain why they did it though. So the so called Polish govt will not resist when the russians invade Poland once again, to bring back USSR. Just wait and see. As they say, watch this space..
You really think that is no conspiracy? So tell me why Russia did not give Poland black boxes and plane back. Is two year after crush? 2 years!!!!!
it could be many things. for instance, cia downed the plane so that the relationships between two countries (russia and poland) deteriorate to the point of war. when facts were established, American diplomacy appealed to russia and poland not to make the discovery public in exchange for some concessions of which the public will never know.
Not so much an investigation into the reasons why Russia would want to do this, more of an anti-Russian docu. It would have been better if there had been more reasoning as to why Russia wanted to do this. Because the President was against Russia invading Georgia is not enough. Who were the other people on the plane, why would Russia want them dead??
how does one say for sure how many bulbs were functional on a runway light strip after a crash? one removes all the bulbs, tests them in lab conditions, and subjects non working bulbs to further scrutiny to see if crash conditions rendered them non-functional. i have never heard of any country shipping air crash evidence to another country until their own investigation is complete. much of the "conspiracy" can merely be called "following investigative procedure". not alot of meat to sink your teeth into on the bones of thid vid
If the American President was in a plane crash in another country, do you think the government would be okay with: "you can investigate after we're done, until then you get limited info"?
That utube vid should go with enhanced sound + translation... putin is a kgb officer so what else could we expect. Kaczynski was a dumbass with no political imagination. However, not an assasination but funerals appearencess showed us the truth : If you get in troubles u can only count on urselves. and 1 more : we have a have puppet guvernment - putin said '' our guy in Warsaw '' about our PM. Herr Tusk ( of German origin by the way ) No comment, There is no way out....
Yes the evidence in this doc is thin because it is missing! If all the facts were made available to the Polish government, the black box, the autopsy reports, the wreckage material, it wouldn't be a conspiracy. It would be fact.
There is absolutely no reason why the Russian government should refuse the Poles to conduct their own investigation. Why do they refuse to give over any information? If there is nothing to hide and no crime was performed here, it should be a very easy shut case. But it's not. That's the problem.
Conspiracy theories exist because there is a hole in the logic of the situation. These are people who use their own judgement and common sense to say "something is not right here." Those who dismiss theories and allow the government to provide a irrational explanation are simply sheep who follow what they are told.
This doc is aimed to make you question what you are being told from the government. If their explanation doesn't make sense (and it shouldn't in this case) there is probably a reason for that. Rarely do you see a case of such neglect for proper investigation for any other reason than to hide the truth.
One can create a sequence of so-called evidence, which would perfectly fit a given accident. Another one can create another string of so-called evidence, which, while having nothing to do with the first, would fit the evidence equally well. Russian mathematicians called these behaviours "ill posed problems" and published a book on them in the 1970th. Gradually these ideas were picked up by the rest of the scientific world, but evidently did not reach the field of the so called investigative journalism, or conspiracy theory.
The evidence found on youtube is always the most compelling one. No wonder the authors rely on it so profusely. Great flick. Takes balls to sell such rubbish to the public.
I see no problem in using youtube as evidence. On the contrary, I think with time, it will be a primary source, however one should ask oneself, are there other possible equally plausible explanations, like, say a dense fog, and the presence of the nation's chief officer in the cockpit? If the answer is yes, then additional evidence is needed to triage. In journalism it's called fact-checking from independent sources. Ignoring this due process is a bad journalism.
The fog was explained with the fog making machine both in the middle of the doc and at the end. They also explained how the Russian government did no prepare for the arrival of the president by either burned out runway bulbs.
Oh, the fog was explained by the fog making machine, lol. Yes, the evidence is lacking. However the lack of information could be explained by other than conspiracy-against-poles theory arguments, for example by the fear of people on the ground to be punished (which does not necessarily mean they are guilty). Read my post about ill-posed problems below, if you wish.
However, there is still a valid application of the conspiracy theory approach -- it's called psychoanalysis. It can be applied successfully to the minds of the conspiracy theorists themselves, but I rest my case here, it is not fun.
I generally don't trust governments, any government, and I don't trust the Russian government - current or any of the previous ones - either. And it's not any personality in particular, it's the system where some special interests have precedence over common citizens and governments are even ready to go to wars for these interests.
In this particular case, given that in 1990 the Russians officially admitted responsibility for the Katyn massacre (20 years before this tragedy), and especially the fact that President Kacyznski had such an anti-communist (anti-Soviet) past, I have a feeling that it would have been just too obvious... and the reasons would not have been apparent to me. But, again, one cannot be certain when it comes to interests outside of the reach of a regular person who follows politics (to a certain extent).
Still, on the basis of the evidence provided in this doc, I lean toward believing that this was probably an accident. I certainly may be wrong about it big time...
I'm having a difficult time with this. My analysis pretty much mirrors yours. I have trouble believing that Russian soldiers would shoot survivors. What purpose could it serve? I see a smoking wreckage, but no smoking gun.
On the other hand....the Russians (and many other states) have been quite bold to use whatever means necessary to attain their goals.
BTW, the Katyn massacre took place closer to fifty years before the Russian government report and nearly seventy years before this plane crash.
Well, what is ? better method to implicate yourself in crime beyond reasonable doubt? Cracking the heads with a baseball bat or similar device would not do much service. The injuries would look way too typical of the airplane crash.
I once heard a story of a woman who beat her husband to death with a frozen leg of lamb then cooked and ate it. Almost got away with it but couldn't keep her trap shut. There is the ' stab them with an icicle ' method. Both a bit impractical on a plane though, where would you hide the angry women for a start ? Probably urban myth anyway, oh well.
Yeah I gathered the conspiracy was a touch thin on evidence, a shaky mobl phone vid with nothing in it to actually confirm that the wreckage was that of the crashed Tu-154. I remember drinking with a Polak friend of mine at the time it happened, It was very shocking to hear. We had been watching that film dramatisation about Katyn a few days before, was a really sad movie.
We concluded at the time it was a tragic accident, upon watching this I was disappointed to hear that the UK didn't send a contingent to the service held in their honor they could have gone by boat or somehow at least. Still, back in 1939 all UK did in defense of its ally was to drop bloomin' leaflets on the Nazis for 6 months. Go figure.
If his brother is a nutcake I hope he is removed soon, from what I hear Lech Kaczynski was a good leader, was he really so unpopular with the Kremlin as this doc suggests? it is a shame to have to step backward in this way.
Regards, Sam.
Just a bunch of wackos! Next they will be telling us that false flag operations have been going on for years! The very concept that murder would be used to achieve political goals is so far removed from who and what we are as a people that I doubt anyone will take this film seriously!
I am having trouble trying to figure out if you are serious or being sarcastic with your comment.
Russia has become a terrorist state under Putin. During Soviet days the KGB worked for the government, now the KGB IS the government.
Oh please, no.
A letter from right wing experts of how to pick holes in somethingof "Gazeta Polska".
Most of the Pols are just tired of it's conspiracy bull**** produced by sic paranoics because, at the very bottom, it's all about to score some political capital for Pis (oposition party in Poland), by building narration based on historical stereotypes.
**** happens and you must be an ***** to claim a one cospiracy cause for this crash and to doubt other causes.
Conspiracy is an awesome genre. Love it. One makes a certain basic assumption (regardless of how loony it is) and builds upon it carefully through selective evidence as far and high as the construct can logically expand. May I, however, propose another set of basic premises for a theory that may not in the end be as sensational as this one, but nevertheless worth of a further elaboration that is required for a sweet feeling of paranoia – a more democratic one, if you will. For the cute argument sake, lets assume this act was not conceived and administered on the very top of political power (on the one hand, the stakes are too high; on the other, it's somewhat boring a theory: Putin this, Putin that, again and again, as if he is superhuman), but, rather, on the very bottom of it. Say, the air traffic controllers at the airport – just as many other functionaries in the civil aviation industry, including the investigators – primarily come from the air-force. It may very well be that the memory of their comrades shot down from the Georgian skies with an assistance (moral, if not technical) of the Polish political establishment in the course of preceding Georgian military aggression in South Ossetia that made the Russian traffic controllers less attentive to details on their monitors - they blinked just for a few (crucial) seconds, really - and not excessively concerned with the safety procedures when landing the craft carrying the representatives of the said Polish political establishment. They did a sloppy job – subconsciously or intentionally. Then this job was picked up by the investigators, who - when ordered to clarify issues - simply and on the same psychological grounds contributed to the sloppiness of the whole thing. Go figure. But the moral of this alternative conspiracy theory is the following: when analyzing the world affairs, never underestimate the regular folks, the roles which the nameless rank and file persons play or all too eager to play in the grand global politics. To take them out of equation strikes me as a bit too elitist an attitude.
Conspiracies intrigue people, because we don't know what we don't know.
Hmmm. Very interesting, I would like to hear what regular folks in Poland, Russia and the rest of the eastern block think about this film.
Medvedev totally gives me the creeps, no question. Russia's military aggression in the former soviet states is certainly cause for concern, and Poland has every reason to mistrust their former enemies. Crimes like Katyn massacre will be remembered for many generations.
There is about 30% of electorate in Poland who votes for the deceased president's brother, a populist nutcake. So I guess up to 30% of Poles also subscribe to the bs conspiracy theories manufactured to "explain" that plane crash.