The Killing Game
A report on serial killer Rodney Alcala's 40-year odyssey of rape, murder and eluding justice.
Rodney Alcala is a convicted rapist and serial killer. He was sentenced to death in California in 2010 for five murders committed in that state between 1977 and 1979, and is under indictment for two additional homicides in New York. His true victim total remains unknown, and could be much higher.
He is sometimes labeled the "Dating Game Killer" because of his 1978 appearance on the American television show The Dating Game in the very midst of his murder spree.
One police detective called him "a killing machine", and criminalists have compared him to Ted Bundy. A homicide investigator familiar with the evidence speculated that Alcala could have murdered as many as 50 women, while other estimates have run as high as 130.
These are the times that try [humans'] souls. If anyone should die for his crimes, it's this guy. But that begs the question: should the state put anyone to death for the crime of murder, and thus become a murderous state? There is no fairness in these situations; there is nothing that can satisfy the victims' families, no punishment that will outlive or erase their years of pain. The death penalty deters no one; in financial terms, it is actually more costly to taxpayers than life imprisonment. And yet the desire to be rid of someone like this man is so strong that, if left to our own devices, a crowd of random people would probably be happy to see him set free, so that we could fall upon him and do the job ourselves. I often wonder if there aren't just too many of us, with societies too big and too diverse to police themselves fairly. We are very rich and very poor, with a few falling in the middle to work like slaves for mediocre lives. A lucky few get into the right line, and receive all of modern life's benefits. A lucky few who want to murder, rape and torture find a shelter in our justice system; or an unlucky few have their number called, and are put to death. The randomness is disconcerting. Where is the answer?
Re - Precious Precious, when you say he shouldn't be put to death you are likening him with a normal human being which he is not. When he murdered someone he left there relatives with a life sentence of losing a loved one so why should he have the right to life when he removes someone elses?
No matter what the sentence to death is a bit too much.
Lock him up if he's a danger but don't kill a human being. Basically he is being killed for killing. Is that anywhere close to "LEGAL"? If killing is illegal then why life sentence?
just my 0.02
Yes, he is being killed for killing and considering the circumstances, what's the matter with that?
No free rides for this piece of garbage who should have been put to death long ago.
sure lock him up for life so tax payers money will take care of him. end his useless life
gooddddd explanat?on
It's not Chinese twisted humor....it"s basic Chinese philosophy......it sends a message gives a lesson for the parents and family who raise a child to become a murderer.......take care in your responsibly to bring your children up properly to be contributing members of society .... not criminals.
I always admired the twisted Chinese humor of sending the family of the condemned a bill a few yuan for the cost of the bullet that did the trick.
Not understanding this thread. This is about a serial killer murdering and raping at least 4 victims and possibly more? Am I at the right place? I wanted to say I feel sorry for the people of California who have to put up with such an enept California Supreme Court that they overturned a guilty verdict by jury not only once but twice!! Allowing this animal to kill again. I think in such cases .. that Supreme Court needs to lose their jobs and be let go. Obviously their judgement is no better than the serial killer they released.. Where is the accountability in this country??
As a Californian, I wonder about that myself, especially in light of Proposition 34 on the November ballot. There are currently 725 people on death row among them, 126 tortured their victim s, 173 killed children and 44 murdered police officers. Since 1977, the death penalty has been carried out only 13 times in this state--and people are worried about the costs of maintaining these animals and cruel and unusual punishment! A shot or two to the back of the head from a 45 should do the trick quickly and painlessly.
I support lethal injection. No fan fare. Humane and a quick death with much less pain than they gave their victims. Should be reasonable enough for everyone involved. Gives the murderer time to make their peace with God and then it's over. We don't have to pay for them for the rest of their lives.
I think the shot to the head is just as painless and cheaper, but the method really doesn't matter to me. Perhaps we should the piece of garbage his choice. However, there should be one appeal and one appeal only.
On spanking children. It's not spanking it's hitting - striking and it's wrong. I will not even debate the issue.
"What about a pat on the butt?" - see above.
I think of a child 2 - 3 feet tall being hit by a 5 - 6 foot adult as sort of comparable to an adult being hit by a 10 - 12 foot giant. In the case of an adult being hit by said giant the adult has some sense of how to protect themself, either that or run like hell. Whereas the child has no such defense and nowhere to run.
It's plainly wrong and It is no way to teach a child to reason - to understand right from wrong. Of course if you want to call on biblical teaching, 'Spare the rod...' No! Let's not go there either.
Im tired of this Mother fed me too many cheerios when I was young. Also alot of people have been abused severely and are not serial killers. Time to bring back OLD SPARKY
Very haunting episode.
Social Services is about as bad as the abuser. Sometimes they turn these children over to foster parents whose only interest is making money off these kids one way or another.
This is not to say that most foster parents are truly trying to help. It's the bad apples that need to be weeded from the system.
But you cannot rehabilitate a pedophile and that's what we are talking about.
They are sociopaths who have no feelings and can not understand they are hurting other people. They only worry about themselves and no one else including "loved ones"
Crying and asking for mercy means nothing to them.
1 in 4 has the mental problem and could be your boss or political member
From where are you getting your figures?
If 1 in 4 have no empathy and would stand on you to get where they want to get in life, then possibly it is not a mental problem but just the way humans are. We need variations to evolve and possibly it turns out that it a useful survival technique to not have empathy. I think there is a documentary in here somewhere you are refering to.But I dont think it means 1 in 4 are capable of murder or would not have empathy for someone who is suffering.
This is why I could never be a cop. If I had arrested this piece of garbage there wouldn't be a trial. And it wouldn't be a quick and painless bullet to the head either.
I, on the other hand, would rather be a psychiatrist working in a prison than a cop working on the street.
I know we are responsible for our own actions but those actions have a base in our youth. Many are lucky to be raised by loving and supportive parents or at least caring parents. We have to remember that for some their youth was HORRIBLE. Children are like seeds who can grow like destructive weed.
1i
And how many have grown up in environments as seedy as some of these murderers and never committed a crime in their lives?
Yes fortunately some take the complete opposite direction.
All bad behaviors can be transformed if a person has the chance to meet good influence along the way, some never do and their environment remain barbaric.
1i
I'd transform this son-of-a-bitch's behavior. Anyone who harms a child gets no second chance.
What about psychologic harm? you'd kill them all too?
1i
Psychological harm can hopefully be repaired. There's nothing that can be done for a child who is killed and her body left for animals to scavenge.
But in most case it is psychological harm that turns a child into a molester, killer and the likes.
So what you are saying is that we should kill the ones who had to suffer so they don't make others suffer.
1i
These people know what they are doing is wrong regardless of what their childhood was like. They know the harm they are doing.
This is why I agree with California's policy of keeping them locked away even after they have served their sentence.
Of course they do; otherwise, why don't they do it in the open. My only concern is guit or innocence.
And then California goes broke and has to find excuses to make the prison population smaller. So instead of changing laws to reduce the number of incarcerations for victimless crimes they just let out a bunch of criminals - who have been hardened rather than rehabilitated - back on the streets :)
Great plan.
Which crimes do you consider victimless?
Recreational drug use and possession.
That would be ignoring the violence in Mexico, our main recreational drug supplier.
What about dealing?
I believe we are talking about people who harm children and not about problems with the California penal system.
The reason California doesn't release these people is because they will just go back and harm more children. Is that what you want?
Just how do you know this about most cases? Have you read through numerous case studies of child molesters, killers and the likes.
Certainly agree, but with one suggestion: insert the "hopefully" between "can" and "be."
In essence, I agree, but would you consider a gentle spanking to be harming a child? I remember once when I was about 3 or 4, I took a crayola and wrote all over a wall for which I was spanked. I never did it again, even after I learned how to use spray paint.
I was arrested once for cold-cocking some ***hole who thought it was acceptable to slap his two year-old daughter. Prosecutor decided to drop the charges largely because he knew no jury would convict me.
I am intolerant of any violence against children.
Lucky man! I got slapped once for telling a woman she was out of order for hitting her kid because he wouldn't stop crying. Probably didn't sound that polite when I said it though :/ Honestly, I did feel bad for saying so, no telling what got her to the point where that seemed a reasonable way to behave. She might have been loopy with lack of sleep for all I knew. On the other hand, she was smacking a baby who understood nothing but that his mum was hurting him. I always get tangled with these things. Maybe she just needed help or a hug or something. Never feels right to go sticking your oar in but it feels worse to walk away. She looked as angry with herself as she was with me. But she is not this man. Not sure what I'd do with him myself. I know that if it was one of my kids I'd gladly do time. I remember my Dad once saying that guys like this ought to be branded and thrown to the public. Rough justice. Remember the father that shot his sons kidnapper/abuser at the airport? Somehow seems less awful than execution. More honest. Uncomfortable to think these things, how many wrongs make a right?
I do remember the father killing his son's abuser. If I'm not mistaken the airport security cameras recorded it. And I think the father was found not guilty by a jury.
And of course I don't think it is a wrong to defend a child, quite the opposite. It is a wrong to let these people abuse a child and do nothing.
However these days I do call 911 instead of taking matters into my own hands.
Just checked, 5 years probation. Can't imagine anyone would feel right locking him up for that. It's on YouTube, the shooting. Didn't watch, my imagination is good enough to fill in the blanks :/ 999 is probably the way to do it, but then social services will get involved. Have you seen any UK news about them and the police failing the young girls in Rochester. Trust them as far as I can throw them.
Most parents who resort to spanking do it more than once and less and less gently as the child grows older....until they can't no more.
My proof is the hundreds of people i talked to who got spanked. I never did, not once, my parents did not believe in this kind of reprimand, and neither their parents even though my dad is of a family of 13 kids.
1i
As long as it doesn't amount to something ridiculously drastic, I have no problem with it. i think it's up to the parents.
Incidentally, a few years back I read of a case where to punish a child for some peccadillo, a father took a dog to which the child was attached and blew its head off in front of her. If this isn't a case of child abuse (and a few other things), I don't know what is. I don't know what happened to the father, but lifetime lockup would have been appropriate.
Lifetime lock-up in a dog kennel is what I recommend.
I suddenly recall what the "punishment" was all about. The daughter had stayed out all night and the father was trying to teach her a religious lesson. I can't tell you how much I felt for both the girl and the dog.
I agree.even tho there is real child abuse,these liberals call ANYTHING child abuse.Some of what is called abuse today was our discipline
I like your post because you are practical and dont sound like a bleeding heart libtard with this lets" REFORM" him bullshit
This doc was totally intersting and kept my heart and emotions pumping in outrage for 40 minutes. Never a dull moment.
Interestingly enough, just as I was wondering why on earth a victim's family member had never shot Alcala; a mother did admitt she had come to court with a gun, fully intending to wipe this guy off the face of the earth.
I thought this story was well worth the telling and was presented in a very respectfull manner on behalf of the young victims and their families.
these type of people are part of human evolution. Clearly, liars, cheaters and evil people win (look at the USA since WWII). Just a small number of these cheaters and murderers determine what happens in the world. Guys like Alcala are just extremes of the evolutionary process. Within 500 years, if the human species is still here, there are only cheaters, liars and murderers. The honest people who used to do the work will be long gone. That's why the human species will die out.
emp12345
could you explain to me (using population genetics please) how "a small number of these cheaters and murderers ""Within 500 years"" there are only cheaters, liars and murderers" ? and if possible please do so in a manner that does not require your post to be moderated.
It seems to me that if only population genetics were involved, these undesirable traits would be weeded out.
robertallen1
not really. as a trait can occur within a "range" and be beneficial in some areas within that range and detrimental within others, as long as the beneficial part out weighs the detrimental part the trait will be selected for.
I see. The question the becomes do these undesirable traits exhibited by Mr. Alcala having anything to do with biological or even social evolution.
robertallen1
in this particular case as my knowledge is based solely on this doc i will have to stipulate that any analysis will rely heavily on conjecture. that being said i will also have to admit that i cannot speak of the influence of "nurture" and point only to "nature".
the evolutionary advantages of looking out for oneself or a persons immediate group more than a perceived different group would be beneficial to the individual and his/her immediate group. we (as you know) can see that effect within different cultures, religions, races,nationalities and so on. now if that range is expanded we can see how this behavior can occur in a small percentage at the extreme range of a society and be nowhere even approaching desirable or beneficial. finally the mutations that occur that produce a psychopath may contain many separate evolutionary advantageous mutations that only produce "psychopaths" when these mutations occur in one individual but benefit society as a whole when they occur dispersed among the population.
Are you saying that it works like the sickle cell anemia gene: one is beneficial, two deadly? Are you also saying that those like Mr. Alcala are the result solely of biology?
I do not believe you can learn to like seeing other people suffer. You either are born with a mental state of being that makes you like to see other people suffer or you are not.
Some people like to torture animals. This also is not learned behaviour imo. It is an interest you are born with.
My point is that people with characteristics that would be considered bad or evil do very well for themselves. Not necessarily serial killers but you only have to look at our society to see that it pays to be an egoistic, corrupt, lying and cheating individual with no compassion.
These are characteristics that are rewarded and will thrive when people evolve. Only my opinion ofcourse.
Well i suppose it is what it is, the law is law and thats that, someone of the law tells you if your gonna die, you die.
I'm done here I think, not much else to say really unless there is a change of subject. ha!
Well if you want another subject find another documentary. Ha
before DNA really took off, imagine all the innocent people that have been executed, how do we really know? we are trusting people to check DNA samples, what if they make a balls up somewhere, i mean we all make mistakes.
What if, what if, what if. In so many murder cases, the idea of guilt or innocence doesn't even enter into it. The gravamen of the plea is whether you would like the case to be tried by a judge or a jury; that's it.
I dunno man, putting you life to what a computer says.
It's not just what a computer says, although that's a large part of it. It's also corroborating evidence.
You know I haven't watched this yet and am just about to, but speaking about the death penalty is a touchy game, I mean there has been cases where people have been on death row for years then found out that they are innocent, even though some people should have the death penalty I still think it has its flaws,
Can you imagine how some people have felt knowing there innocent but having to sit in death row?
Just doesn't work.
I wish that they would make jails the way they should be, like gloomy dungeons, shackles and let them rot there for the rest of there life, no Playstations, Plasma TV's, gyms, pool tables etc
If i knew jails were like a gloomy dungeon with shackles, then I would like to see them suffer like that then put to death knowing they have escaped in a way.
As I mentioned before, DNA testing really helps exonerate and inculpate.
Yeah its that horrible thought of someone being put to death when they are innocent. It is the whole process that seems a bit crazy and the cost of all this prolonging must be emmense.
Not really, only that the way they are doing things needs to be changed because like you said its appaling when you look at those statistics. I also think there are lots of small offences in america that should be dealth with in a completely different way so they wouldnt be clogging up the system and draining the resourses and time needed for more serious offences. This three strikes and your in prison over there doesnt seem to always be the best way to deal with petty cases.
What do you consider petty cases?
The term petty crime obviously involves a wide range of offences but your asking, I think, what do i consider to be a crime of least importance. Well for example here if you smoke a joint you may as well be sticking a needle in your eyeball and teaching your neighbours children how to do the same. But also the drug and adictive side of drugs causes obvious huge problems and people commit crimes they otherwise would never do. The crimes are a symptom of the drug problem and banging them all up in prison doesnt seem to have anyway near the desired effect.
Fine. So what do you suggest?
I watched a documentary recently about cases where people could be rightly acquitted due to DNA evidence. When I say condone the death penalty it is just that i dont want to be the one to decide but I know that many of these men (and some women) are living a grand old life for themselves in prison and dont deserve to live let alone a gym, tv and three meals a day. And we all know its the tax payer paying to keep them comfortable.
Here I know of a local chap caught dealing drugs. Not on a huge scale but he was in the army and the wanted to make an example of him. He served seven years. Thats more than what peadophiles get in this country. So if i dont trust the way the law is enfoursed its hard to trust it with something as serious as life. In this country anyway.
Do you have any alternatives?
''Who ever is careless with the truth in small matters cannot be trusted with inportant matters'' Albert Einstein
Thats how I feel about Irish law and politics.
Fine, but do you have a reaplcement on hand?
I'd like to know on what grounds Mr. Alcala's first two convictions were overturned? I wonder why psychiatric testimony is even admitted or considered and why a person's background is taken into consideration?
One would think tht with our DNA testing, the process would go a lot quicker, but it doesn't, as the two individuals in my prior post demonstrate. Compare today with the immediate past. In the following cases, guilt was not in question and justice sure seemed to be a lot swifter:
1. Charles Giteau - assassinated President Garfield on September 19, 1888, hanged June 30, 1882.
2. Leon Czolgosz - assassinated President McKinley on September 14, 1901, electrocuted October 19, 2001.
3. Giuseppi Zangara - assisinated Mayor Anton Cermakon March 6, 1933, electrocuted March 20, 1033.
4. Charles Starkweather - killed 11 persons within a few days in 1958, electrocuted June 25, 1959.
5. Richard Hickcock and Perry Smith - executed the entire Cutler family on November 14, 1959, hanged April 14, 1965.
6. Ruth Snyder and Judd Gray, murdered Ms. Snyder's huband on March 20, 1927, executed january 12, 1928.
Have you read about Carl Pazram, Albert Fish, Pee Wee Gaskin or Henry Lee Lucas? The first three were executed, but Mr. Lucas, suspected of at least 100 murders, but convicted of only 11 of them for which he was sentenced to death, managed to stay alive by every once in a while leading the authorities to new bodies and clearing up unsolved murders. He eventually died in prison.
Aren't you happy that justice is blind?
A different system for minor drug related offences. Less loop holes in general that the wrong people can slip through. Again I think that its all getting more and more complicated because its legislations piled on top of legislations rather than reviewing the whole system.
I do know of Fish and Lucas.
I,m not saying I have any life changing solutions but at least I can contribute to presenting some of the flaws in the system when other people are blind to them. Its easy to write something in stone these days but as there are slight differences in every case, writing things in stone can have devastating consequences. The way law has swelled and grown, originated from a very old, out of date way of life.
Yes it is very frustrating.
O.K. How about this for minor drug offenders (first time only and no selling): community service and jury duty during incarceration? How about this: no arrests for prostitution, gambling and common drunk? How about this: white collar criminals convicted of major crimes (to be defined) forfeit all their money and property to the penal system. In other words, when they leave the hoosegow (if they do), they begin with nothing. How about this for convicted murderers: one appeal and one appeal only?
Yeah. Why do you think the likes is not being done?
I don't know how things are in the Emerald Isle, but here in the land of Paris Hilton and Lindsay Lohan, people are just plainly and patently stupid.
I have friends that could tell me all about Linsay and Paris but would know nothing about an atom. I have a friend that believes in fairys. I think you get the same percentage of idiots out there everywhere. I also do have plenty of friends i can have interesting and intellegent conversations with too though. Its a shame because the idiots in their masses that know nothing do bugger it all up for the rest of us. They are allowed to vote.
Maybe that's what puts intelligence at a premium.
Did you read last week of the 480-pound convicted killer who indicates that he's too fat to be executed?
I would never say I enjoy watching documentaries like this but I do watch them because I am interested in how the brain works or in this case does not work. I agree with robertallen1 why watch it then Justin. Surely with a title like ''the killing game'' you didnt think it was about quantum theory. It may also help to identify other victims whos family still have no answers and no peace. I would rather these ladies stories be heard but still, it is not the morbid and grotesque I am interested. Would you not agree that it is interesting how this man could do these things yet every instinct in me is repulsed. Thats a huge difference in how the mind works.
What do you think would have happened to Mr. Alcala in your country?
I have no faith in the judicial system in this country. Courts here and not just in the hight court get adjourned all the time in turn just making more money for the wealthiest in this country from judges to solicitors to the gardai. I think in america the law is very much an eye for an eye. Here, he might well be found dead in the bog, which is an eye for an eye but which i wouldnt condone. I believe the law should be enfoursed without rage and with rationallity. I could not condone the death penality as human error will always play a factor in any case. The law is layers of laws piling up that gets it all very complicated especially when out of date laws exist and have not been readjusted or just got rid of. I started classes in law once (for about a week) and soon realised that I was very much against some of these laws and the lack of logic these laws encompassed. I remember the first day finishing the class the toutor said '' law does not mean logic''. Well is should! But the more complicated the law is, the harder it is for us little people to defend ourselves, afford to defend ourselves or generally have any control of our lives country or rights. I live in a very corrupt country where everyone helps out a friend and the country is small enough to call someone that knows someone who will help you out.
ps Sorry about my bad typing and layout still learning. What a big block of words up there.
Somehow I wouldn't shed crocodile tears if Mr. Alcala wound up dead in prison--and I am very much in favor of the death penalty which is not carried out often enough. DNA testing goes further than anything so far devised for preventing an innocent person from being executed. Here in California, since 1978 when the death penalty was reinstated, 900 people have been condemned and only 14 executed. This is appalling.
Last week, on September 20, Donald Palmer and Robert Harris were executed, having murdered, 2 and 5 people respectively and having resided on death row for 23 years and 12 years respectively. But Stephen Holmes who murdered 10 and wounded countless others in Colorado and Jared Lochner who murdered 6 and wounded 14 in Arizona, all first degree murderers and all having lain in wait for their victims, will merely serve the rest of their lives in prison, ostensibly because they are "mentally ill" and were not "responsible" for what they did, as they were acting in a "diminished capacity." This is atrocious, unforgiveable and beyond rational.
P.S. In response to your P.S., try writing in paragraphs rather than blocks. It takes only an extra return each time.
My grandfather was a cab driver in Wichita, Kansas. He was stabbed to death on Sept. 25, 1972. I was 15 and it still haunts me. I didnt want the killer executed. I wanted to know WHY? I wanted to know where in his life it had gotten so bad that he ended up taking anothers life. He died in prison in 1995. He didnt see his family for the last 20 years of his life because they moved him out of state.
Do you not think these people are sick? That they have something that is wrong in their mind? Do you always want to blame sick people for their actions? I am not giving these people a pass. I dont feel sorry for them. I want them to live out their years in prison but I dont want to spend time and money going over the case again and again. Eliminating the death penalty would go a long way with that. I am still upset that they put ted bundy to death. He blamed 'Playboy'; for his actions and many people still believe it. It was mental illness that caused it. Along with the way he was raised and the people around him. We will never know the real reason. We will never know if someone molested him, that is still out there causing more children to grow up and kill others without reason. Killing people that kill people to teach people that is wrong to kill people is bad policy and makes very little common sense.
Who cares? A person is responsible for his acts and that's it. Keeping these monsters alive (and by doing so, you are giving them a pass) at taxpayer's expense is as great an abomination as their crimes.
great response
You probably call yourself Christian.
'Who cares'...
Yeah, not alot of people cared then either. They just figure its another worker getting killed on the job, no big deal. Unless it happened to YOUR family.
Its not that you cant understand, its that you wont. And im not going to waste my time and effort trying to convince you that killing people to teach people that killing people is wrong is ignorant policy and we will never learn the true cause. And in learning the cause, we may be able to prevent tragedies like this from happening over and over.
but the heck with that...
Kill 'em all and let God sort it out'....
I absolutely do not call myself a Christian, so you've jumped to an unwarranted conclusion.
Where did I state that the purpose of execution is to teach people that killing people is wrong? Complete strawman. The purpose of execution is to do away with these creatures whom we have more than enough time to study between conviction and elimination. Learning the cause(s) adds to scientific knowledge, but saying that it will prevent these atrocities from happening is going a bit far.
You re totally correct when you say killing killers is not the answer
Cause then the Murderer killer also becomes a killer
I know ppl think execution will do away with murderes
But there will always be new ones
MEN kill
Unfortunately
It's better to get rid of them than to support them.
OK. So let's put the piece of garbage in prison and let him out after 34 months so he can kill other children, which he did.
Right. That's the ticket.
WOMEN kill too. Ever heard of Louise Peete, Aileen Wuornos, Velma Barfield?
i never watch documentaries or shows on killers, psychos, et.c. I feel that it aggrandizes them, and in all honesty they shouldn't even be reported on in the news....there should be no acclaim at all for such creatures. That some people enjoy watching these will forever mystify me. I'll take nature,space, politics, anything over studying why some deviant decided to become evil. The tone in which describes what has transpired in these docs is much too reverent for me
Then why did you watch this documentary? And what you gives you the right to dictate what should and should not be reported?
Justin much like the doc's you enjoy its all about education and awareness. If you are a parent then you can understand the importance of knowing this kind of sick human exists and what you can tell your children if ever confronted by somone who they do not know, wants to take your picture, give you a ride, give you a treat, buy you an icecream cone, take you to the movies, be dressed as a police officer and want you to go with them if you have done nothing wrong etc etc. You teach them to run as fast as they can and shout they need help as there is a bad person trying to get them.
Sometimes it helps the cops for journalists to talk about serial killers, some killers really likes the attention and if they get the attention they want, they have a longer so called "cooling of period" til the next kill.
So why is this monster still alive?