Debtocracy
For the first time in Greece a documentary produced by the audience. Debtocracy seeks the causes of the debt crisis and proposes solutions, hidden by the government and the dominant media.
Debtocracy is a 2011 documentary film by Katerina Kitidi and Aris Hatzistefanou. The documentary mainly focuses on two points: the causes of the Greek debt crisis in 2010 and possible future solutions that could be given to the problem that are not currently being considered by the government of the country.
Aris Hatzistefanou, 34, is accustomed to uncomfortable reporting. A journalist since his teens, his long-running show infowar on Sky Radio was canceled just as his thought-provoking documentary, Debtocracy, was released.
From the authors: The idea came about during a Sky Radio show on how the Ecuadorian president was responding to the country’s massive debt. He started a simple financial audit of sovereign debt, and came to the conclusion that other countries were using Ecuador as a slave, like Argentina and many other countries before. The administration forced a haircut of 70% on its creditors.
Katerina Kitidi – editor in chief of TV XS – and I decided to produce the documentary. We faced a serious funding problem but, for obvious reasons, we didn’t want to ask any political parties, companies or – even worse – banks, so we resorted to crowd-funding.
It worked very well, we collected 8,000 euros in just 10 days, an unprecedented figure for a country like Greece, facing a serious economic crisis.
At the beginning this project was supposed to be a mere YouTube video. But because so many professionals offered their help (musicians, video editors), and so many people donated their money, it became a real documentary. The surplus was invested in promoting the movie.
A terrific documentary that reveals the underpinnings of odious debt, and reminds politicians they have a responsibility to act as true fiduciaries, for their clients, 'the people' they represent. Although it is mostly subtitled, it is a great watch, and very informative towards understanding global economics. (check it out)
great documentary ... "we the people" must rise against IMF, Fed, WorldBank, Corporate SLAVERY !
Excellent doc! Very eye opening. Thank you for posting.
Germany got it's money Canablising it's Eastern Brothers and Sister's. Catastroika I think is one of the best films I have ever seen on here.
RR
Great documentary, interesting perspective. Pity about the subtitles being a bit out of sync at times.
as a greek i can ensure the potential viewer that he or she will be informed about the true causes that lead greece to her fianacial collapse.
although, in my opinion, there are certain causes related to greek social pathology that are not presented in detail or not presented at all.
for example the role of greek orthodox church in huge economic scandals and unequal civil rights or the utterly corrupted judical system and the systematic violetion of human rights by the police.this crisis is not just economic , it is a social crisis and this is why it is tragic.
this is one of the few documentaries about the greek crisis that doesn t reproduce the propaganda of the mass media and for that alone it worths seeing.
as a greek i can ensure the potential viewer that he or she will be informed about the causes that lead greece in her fiancial collapse and the people who live in this country in despaire.
the pathology of greek society is not represented in detail so the viewer is maybe left with questions that i would be happy to answear.
for example it is not mentioned that there is unfortunantly a lot of people with opinions similar to pantsios who not only are part of the probleme but also prevent us to stop explotation around the globe.
i can't even watch the doc cuz of your racist comment, i cant belive how much hate i have for stupid people like you and so yu know i'm from europe and don't have nothing to do with Ecuador or any other "third " world country you mentioned being repolsed compared with your mighty and in the top 30 richest countrys in the world gREECE lool
forgive my compatriot, pantsos' rude way of expressing himself, please remember that for a long time greece has been mislead systematically by its politicians and media and has been force-fed u.s bs. we have been led to believe, in the last 35 y's that we live in prosperity, and now it has blown up in our faces. we were, and to an extent still are, miserably naive. as you definately know, latin america has been portrayed as a horrible conglomerate of useless slackers, much as the piigs are being portrayed now. some people just don't know any better. i hope (and believe) that you will understand. as for pantsos, file, don't be so critical, and please get out of the mentality of the neoellinas.. we are not better than others, we are not worse than others, and comparison between two modern nations is perfectly rational.
back to you vvindred. i don't know which part of europe you are from, nor does it matter to me. manage your anger a little. just because somebody says something disagreeable, it doesn't really give you the right to lash out like that. this of course is my opinion. and please, either write Greece, or greece if you do not feel like using the shift key. really, why disrespect a country, one with a wonderful history, from which even you have benefitted, just because someone posted something on the internet? if stooping to the level of someone you seemingly disagree with is how you roll, you sabotage yourself and ridicule all that you propose to stand for.
i hope neiter you nor pantsos are annoyed by what i am saying here, or anyone else for that matter. this crisis extends far further than greece, these debts are all odious in my opinion, and this is no time for bickering.
compose yourselves for goodness' sake!!
wow pantsios you make me puke....you probably have wet dreams with gRECEE the old empire , imperialist trash
Its not only that with Ecuador , Ecuador has lots of democracy and rights issues in the ''inside'' so not a comparison By Far with Greece ....!
Im greek and i live in Greece im living the situation in Greece .
Though i agree with some things stated by the Docu i hate the fact that it compares Greece with all those corrupted latin america countries not that greece is a ''saint'' we have corruption in many state departments and in policy but which country hasnt even USA has we may be 1st in europe but we definetely arent wolrd leader COME ON! But come on we are not Ecuador for heaven sakes we are ..or since some time ago in 30 richest countries in the world!
Ok i agree USA is not a ''saint'' did awful ''crimes'' around the world even orchistrated 9/11 the biggest deception but still it seems Lapavatsis wants us to retreat Euro ...well i wonder if that would solve all of our problems in Greece .
Anyway Pro and Cons and damn not this latin america -greece comparison i hate it!
However good Docu as far the editing and analysis of world's Debts!
Of course you are not Ecuador because Ecuador has a smart and intelligent president that knows what he's doing and does not bow down or compromise their sovereignty to please the IMF, USA and other world powers.
@pantsios: I'm Greek too, I live in Greece too and I honestly believe you are talking bullshit. Especially about Ecuador. Greece should better be friends and even "learn" some things from Latin America. Instead of trying to please and preserve the "Euro-dream" by serving causes that justify the means. Let me be clear I'm pro-European. But I 'm totally against a "United States of Europe". My national independence has been established with too match fight and blood and my civilization goes back too long to give that up for ANYONES agenda.
in the begining of the documentary they say we all played a part by putting the civil servants and other leaders in charge... but we dont really have much choice when voting for our leaders! It's always the choice between voting for one id**t who will be controlled by special interrest groups or another id**t who if is not already connected with those special interrest groups, will be recruited.
O MG........ Mann we are living in ****** world, controlled by ****** cooperation..... and guess who pays the price at the end ... are simple people.
i don't understand why the rich wants be richer, while the poor is trying to live one day....
i just loved the part when the french guy from the parliament was screaming "we give them money to buy weapons from us (hypocrite)" This shows U how the system is corrupted and all this economy crisis could have been avoided.
we are living in such system that makes you live on debts ... from biggest countries like the US to the smallest countries like Lesotho, every nation live on debts.
at the end i have to say that you have money,you the power, when you have the power you can do whatever you want
(IMF is scam )
OMFG, the GR wages have raised +27%, DE +7%. Thus Greek economy lost momentum and can't compete. "Ora et labora" on the one side and "Carpe diem" on the other side. Guess who is guilty? Why should Greece pay? Are they serious they deserved all those decades of big money and extra benefits comparing to the rest of the world? Their public sector is 3x bigger to the European average, their Joe Railwayman income is twice bigger to the German Jurgen Railwayman. Is Germany poor underdeveloped country? Greece economy haven't jumped "into first league", they have just multiplied all their bookkeeping by at least 1,27 I would guess by 4. "Greece was managed to be a lender"? Oh common, its up to them to keep/or not using the high yield credit card. Greeks aren't not children they have to pay their debts. They don't like it? Who cares.
Go to an economics class. Go look at the current accounts of each country and the inflation in certain parts of the eurozone. Inflation in the EZ overall was something like 2%, but thats an average. Germany was at like 1% and southern europe was at something like 5%. Thats why wages and prices rose in greece relative to everwhere else.
Go look at how interest rates on government debt converged at the end of 1999. Basic econ 101, interest rates drop, and yield increases. Hence the bubbles in every country that saw a massive drop in interest rates upon the creation of the euro.
@admin vPixle:
it's not as simple as that. Greece was very "mismanaged" and it's economy was "over-regulated". Germany is well managed and semi-regulated or unregulated at all in some sectors of it's economy. "Heil" USA for that and for building Germany's Public Sector and Government after WW2! I 'm not saying the Germans didn't contribute in the process, quite the contrary. So, "Heil" obedient and controlled workforce (that is actually a positive attribute - Greeks are questioning authority from birth) and European gold in the German treasuries (including Greek gold) that was stolen in WW2 and was never given back to those treasuries or was officially baptized as 'lent" for the reconstruction of post-war Germany!
If you want to compare Greece and Germany, why don't you start from these absolute FACTS before saying anything else? Because Germans seem to have a very-very short memory these last years when it comes to past 'events". You have been also considerably helped by other western countries and especially the USA in order to make Germany what it is today, never forget that. Thank you for your time.
Your arguments are not completely new but they are BS nonetheless. Greece has been given more money than Germany after WW2 (much more).
Also, there seems to be this idea that many people have that after world war 2 Germany was completely destroyed and America rebuild it. It was not like that. Germanys industry was mainly intact. You had bureaucracy, you had educated people, you just had to rebuild the parts of the industry that had been damaged/destroyed and you were good to go. It's very different with Greece. There is no industry to speak of in Greece and no functioning bureaucracy (to this very day). Greek is basically a failed state, it always was. Greeks elites and politicians are unable and highly corrupt. Everyone should realize that there is a huge difference between Greece and basically every other European country.
Your arguments are also not new but BS too, sorry about that. By the way Greece is the 37th largest economy in the world (2010 World Bank) despite the current crisis and the continuous drop of GDP.
Germany has built it's industry and infrastructures after destruction in WW1 thanks to 1) looted money during WW2 that were never repaid to the states that were invaded during that war and 2)thanks to income from this production during and after the war. Also it was helped from the US after the war and did a massive economic leap because of the preexisting infrastructure and it's controlled workforce. And the argument that Greece has no industry whatsoever, never had and has always been a failed state is the most stereotypic and subjective argument of our times that finds ground in the fact that today Greece failed economically.
Greece has and always had been living due to three types of industry: 1)marine industry, petroleum products and chemicals, 2)agriculture and export of food products and 3) Tourism and services (like telecommunications for ex). Greece never had a heavy industry like technology and electronic products, automobiles and aviation products. Nonetheless there is a small but important production of sub-products for these goods that are mainly produced by multi- or international corporations that are of Greek origin but do not address the Greek market and do not have their headquarters in Greece although some of them, like Raycap Corp, do have them in Greece.
The reason why most people today have the idea that Greece "produces nothing" is because there is a HUGE deficit in the area of advertising, diplomacy and public relations. This is also the way the media can easily say ANYTHING about Greece and not have a proper response by any official source, the reason why FYROM today is named Macedonia, the reason why the European Commission gives ultimatums every now and then to the Greek government and the reason why Germany's public opinion think that they are paying for the Greeks when the truth is that everyone is paying for everyone including a "failed" Greece paying for Spain as we speak. The economic mismanagement of the state led to the fail of the public sector finances in Greece in 2009 and this was it ONLY.
AFTER the troika imposed the so-called momentum and international bailout the private sector and every other part of the economy went from bad to worse. The Greek banking-system has never faced a true treat from this crisis like in most states and this an indicator that it has endurance.
Please stop trying to create impressions and persuade yourself and others that Greece is a "completely" different case that ANY OTHER European country (like there is not similar corruption in Italy???) because the only think you do is feeling better and superior from a nation who is responsible for you living today in a world of cultural and civilized standards. And you absolutely hate that.
No, It is NOT the reason 'fyrom' is called Macedonia..
Macedonia has ALWAYS been Macedonia..
It is the one singular veto by greece that only you call fyrom.
The rest of the world has woken up to your corruptness and lies..
Remember, Macedonia is mentioned in the Bible. Greece became a country after 1830.. NO mention of greece anywhere in Biblical texts..
If you're trying to prove a point, try using facts..
Hello everybody, great documentary,
My only advice for everyone is : never get into a debt!!! Does not matter if you are a one citizen, company or a whole state.
If you have a debt your are becoming a sheep, a sheep controled by a shepherd (lender). And as you know, shepherd does not always have a best interests with his sheeps. Shortly, he will give them some freedom and grass, but in the end, they wil all end up at butchery.
So once again. Never get into a debt people.
This should not be an ideological, political, or class struggle. This is about global economic policies that are imperfect, combined with corrupt corporations, politicians, and lets be honest, elements of the population that protest today, that have profited from an imperfect and weakly regulated or controlled global economy.
Greeks are not lazy and they are not stupid. They have never and will never walk to their death or their own economic and political slavery.
Remember who you are and what you have contributed to this world. Do not be told you are unproductive, lazy, and inefficient. You were creating handheld computers out of bronze, created coins, commerce,and international trade over 2500 years ago.
Rise up, take back your nation recreate your industries, social programs and invest in the future of your children.
You are the cradle of civilization, fix it!
The analysis of how the debt crisis has developed over many years is mainly sound except when the various Marxist intellectuals interviewed in the video refer to old outdated slogans such as "class struggle". waxing ideological detracts from their valid criticisms. The remarks on an audit committee are sadly very true. Unfortunately non payment of the part of the debt they deem to be odious, e,g the Siemens debt, is not going to wash with creditors. The Marxist clearly want to destroy the system rather than reform it and rebuild it to their own ideological plan forgetting that humans are humans and once in power communists, like the rest , develop their own caste systems, party favourites, etc . Marxist economies have never succeeded and require authoritarian one-party regimes; but so-called western capitalism can survive when it has the will and ability to reform (big "ifs" admittedly). The best solution for Greece would be to tell the creditors that "enough is enough" and a that a disorderly default will ensue unless the debt is restructured after discussion and common understanding over 30 years with a five year grace period (for example ) at reasonable rates of interest. Germany and France, in particular have fragile banking systems heavily exposed to Greece and the global economic system from Brazil to China would be in danger of meltdown if Greece unilaterally defaults. It would be better for such countries to renegotiate the debt, on equal not dictatorial and insulting terms, with Greece rather than risk default and even debt repudiation.
I guess it is ok for people like Warren Buffett to exclaim that " their is a class war going on and my side is winning" without being disparged as an ideologue. Class struggle and class generally needs to be re-introduced to political discourse it has been under erasure for far to long-instead we get the middle class-a deliberate ideological pillar used by the intellectual hitmen for capitalism whether unwitting post modernists or actual tools. Middle class is substituted for working class but this mythical middle does not have the social power or numbers to actually threaten the capitalist social order which is why this hole in the donut is constantly referred to by every breed of politician and pundit alive in capitalist countries. And the notion that a planned economy inevitably leads to totalitarianism is patently false. Imperialism is the transmission belt for totalitarianism-constantly defending oneself against capitalist counter revolutionaries that is the Western capitalist countries-has more to do with totalitarianism than a planned economy ever did. Western capitalism can only survive because we let it. Two inter-imperialist wars along with the same number of global depressions ought to be enough to convince the people that capitalism as a mode of production is more trouble than it is worth-except for the 1% at the top that is. And these are just the most obvious examples of capitalist barbarity-all the regional strife famines intercene warfare, religous and ethnic strife the flames of which are constantly fanned by a ruling oligopoly to keep us divided as well as the regular crisis of capitalism refered to as the business cycle-as if these crisis were as natural as the four seasons instead of human construction....
Gramsci wrote on the difficulties of overcoming ideological hegemony and developing a class consciousness among the working class. Of course when the entire intellectual resources of multiple nations their corporate media and schools of higher learning are all engaged in propagating the myths and ideology that sustains the status quo it becomes more understandable and recognized as the difficult task it is. However, when "the people" are confronted by their own state forces who are protecting the one percent the development of class consciousness can occur quite rapidly which is why any popular uprisings that aren't sponsored by astro turf front groups and propelled to the head of the line by the corporate media eg the Tea Party get so little coverage and what coverage they do get is heavily managed so that our perception of them become a perjorative exercise-tree huggers for environmentalists all a deliberate excercise to keep the people divided and disorientated-so much so that "socialism doesnt' work" is the pavlovian response to any project that would include putting the tasks of building a socialist economy on the agenda. And when it does all the old staw man arguments against it are repeated on an adhomenim basis-thank god for the internet. WE no longer have to depend on the kleptocracy to bring us their version of social reality which is more concerned with managing perceptions than bringing us the news.
Cheers,
RR
I appreciate you well expressed opinions but I cannot agree that class struggle and Marxist theory is the answer. That does not mean we should be like sheep and not do anything nor cease protesting but a struggle against the injustices and contra breaches and/or violations of the social contract in any society, be it by Marxist state capitalists or plutocratic capitalists, needs a unity of all classes.
Societies include the sheep whose rams forgot to use their horns, the wolves who claim they protect the sheep but at the cost of sacrifices and the jackals, the lackeys if you will, who feed on the left over prey of the wolves. Wolves:the plutocrats, Jackals, the highly rewarded senior officials of government., commerce, finance or industry, Sheep the rest without whom the wolves and the jackals cannot survive. These basic elements of any society will always be there. In Marxist regimes the wolves were the folk in the politburos, their jackals comprised the nomenclatura and the sheep were the hapless "comrades" in whose name abuse of power was exercised.
If you are successful you may influence human social behaviour but you can never fundamentally change it.
It is time for the workers of greece to overthrow their goverment.
Take charge of the industries and have for the first time a Real Socialistic State. The only party that fortold and warned about all that's happening today in Greece is the communist Party and still is the only political body that tries to give the power to greek workers. As for the oportunists and others that say that debt is what causes today's crisis in greece, that's the real lie. The Capitalistic way of production and the Imperialism is what causes Greece, slow Death today. The debt is merely an excuse.
There is nothing racist about pointing out how germany's external policy works out and of course it is not racist to critisize a goverments work.
Noone implied that the german people is bad or whatever other name.
It is true thow that during the ww2 greece had their gold travel to berlin and many of countries infastructures worked beneficially to germany. Nevertheless greece was never compensated for these things.
IMF = International Maffia Fund.
Isn't it easy to go RACIST and blame things on Germany. Why not study Germany's ways and try to adopt some. They are making things (and quality things) people want. Real Easy. Greece on the otherhand doesn't make anything but they spend their time philosophizing to others.
They are really good in making things indeed...only that germany follows the import materials, export final products strategy. Germany is the biggest exporter of coffee in the world without a single grain growing on german ground. The seed is imported from Nigeria and processed in Germany. Then it is exported in other parts of the world including Nigeria. Other countries don t have the power to do the same. I don t say german people are bad or greeks are victims, we are the ones carrying the most of the responsibility for whatr we let happen to our country, but things are not quite so simple !
But stating Greeks have some sort of defective Gene that is responsible for the evasion of taxes or calling peripheal EU members pigs is not racist? Wha tis this about?
RR
The comment of German salary is absurd. It is kind of common sense that in German industry people get one of the best income in Europe.
I must admit im a high school grade...but since I started investing in gold 10 years ago, I remember that in the late 90s oil price was below or around 20 dollars a barrel. All prices went up a lot in commodities in the last 10 years...but the one that is the most important, is oil...People say its debt and greed and corruption for the problems of Pigs and Ireland and Scandinavians but I think its not true, I really start to think lately that oil is the culprit and I dont think oil is going to be cheaper in the future which leads me thinking that this is just the begining and other countries will follow. I let you imagine oil at 17 dollar a barrel in1997 and 100 dollar today, this is the type of thing that can hurt any country as long as it depands on it ( we all do in order to live nice and happy life)...
You're on the spot here, because we need oil to keep the machines working, not just for fuel but for lubrication too. Agriculture the second largest consumer of oil, 15% of all oil goes there. To produce our bloody food! There's a heavy-weight expert's report on the matter that the current agriculture cannot be sustained with alternative energies, that why oil is so important. Permaculture, aka. natural-way farming, can produce higher yields per land and time used, especially in long terms, and you don't need no oil for that. It's been practised and proven, feel free to google and read about it and you do yourself a favor too... it's sad how we argue on things like money and oil and how are we going to feed people and sustain nature when we have a solution here on a golden platter.
Oil, money and such are irrelevant. What matters is how are we going to live on this planet in future, as a species among species.
No matter how much you understand and talk about the problems and voice it out, it's all irrelevant if you do not act.
That and the displacement of living labour with machinery. Only living labour can produce new value and profit-Capitalism has not updated it's method of determining value-the labour time embodied in making a commodity ( simply put) when this ratio of dead to living labour becomes to high the overall profit pie shrinks-crisis ensues and the class struggle becomes more acute. Makes sense to me I am sorry but you will have to do your own research on Marx and the Macro economic capitalist laws of motion and their tendencies.
RR
Yes, IMF does rip off every country it goes into. BUT Greece started the destruction of its economy by itself, no one "helped" it. Which industries does it have, what is it manufacturing? Mostly agricultural products (overpriced!), provides tourism services (even more overpriced!!). Have you seen anything "Made in Greece" except the Greek cheese?! The Greek economy has been having a series of NDEs (near death experiences) for many years. It lied everyone about its debt, Greeks themselves try to avoid paying taxes (the main source of governmental income!) at all cost. Good luck asking for a receipt anywhere in Greece when buying something - they'll look at you as if you are trying to rob them. Most purchases go off the book-keeping.
Yes, Germany, France and Holland do benefit from weak Euro more than other countries. BUT just because they manufacture and export actual products! With German Mark, French Franc and Dutch Guilder they would still be exporting a lot and would be well-off.
Now, everyone in EU is trying to save Greece, but the Greeks blame EVERYONE except themselves! Absolute nonsense! Greek are so proud of being GREEK that they cannot admit that they all contributed to this crisis and the collapse of their economy. They cannot export "history stories", "Greek philosophy" and "Olympic games" anymore, it's time now to finally start manufacturing something and provide good and adequate services.
The Greek professor is a perfect example of the ignorance and illiterate judgement present in the Greek society.
Iam Greek and i admit tha we were and we are still wrong in many cases, most of them are mentioned in your words, but there are many factors which have influenced and still inlfuence the economic inefficiency of my country, factors temming from the missing support of my country's foreign policy by other Member States. These huge problems that Greece face led to a huge armament expenditure depriving the economically important wealth funds. So rainmaker although you have many good points you should study the situation globally to become completely objective.
I am Greek too and have made my remarks also. I think they did make an honest effort to show the recent debt experience of Argentina and Ecuador. If they added all the past debt problem countries from Congo to Peru, and Indonesia the video would have been over long. Since a written study with charts, graphs etc would be more suitable in a book, with some of the purely ideological opinions and Marxist stuff removed.or tuned down
A coalition of big businesses is waging a campaign for a massive tax holiday on corporate profits stashed overseas. Its lobbyists claim that this windfall would create millions of jobs. If our lawmakers buy that, they've got very short memories.
Just seven years ago, big American corporations made the exact same promises. And Congress gave them a tax holiday that allowed 843 companies to reduce their tax rate from 35 percent to 5.25 percent on $312 billion in offshore profits.
What did Americans get in return? This week, our organization, the progressive Institute for Policy Studies, released a report showing that 58 companies that received 70 percent of the tax windfalls didn't boost employment. In fact, they actually destroyed a total of nearly 600,000 jobs.
Much of the crisis is really just political, except for in the Eurozone, where it is institutional. For an example, the Americans do have a crisis - A political one. The democrats cannot spend too much, because they talked alot about "fiscal responsibility" under Reagan. Now they're being held to their statements in the past and so cannot do what is required to stabilize the economy at a socially acceptable level. The Republicans use this to push as hard as they can to move resources from labour to capital. It's really just political. The USD isn't backed by anything, so there isn't really a fiscal crisis. The US gov't isn't revenue-constrained and could easily solve the problems they have. The same goes for any other country with a modern currency.
The Eurozone is a different matter. The EZ is really a confederacy at the moment. It is half-way between decentralised nations and a federation of nations. This means it's impossible to solve crises like this one while still maintaining political credibility. Any way forward has to encompass a massive revamp of institutions relating to the Euro, or a re-decentralisation of currency. For that to happen, the thought has to materialise and mature in the minds of the electorates and parties of the EU. When that happens, it will be politically doable to solve the problems of today. Before that happens, it's impossible to maintain credibility at home and abroad simultaneously while pushing for change. For example - Papandreou could easily tell the rest of the EU off and return to the Drachma, but this would completely destroy his and Greece's credibility in the EU and with bondholders (who cares?). What he's doing now is the opposite. He's trying to maintain credibility with the EU and the bondholders, but ruining it at home.
I think they make you pay better attention.
RR
If only it had been in English or in Russian... Reading subtitles is annoying :)
One of the most insightful documentaries on the Greek debt crisis. Thanks for uploading.
Documentary in a nutshell
'...The IMF is to blame for lending us money with strings attached, the ECB is to blame for lending us low interest money for so many years, The markets are to blame for speculating, trading, buying and selling worldwide debt,
the Government is to blame for decreasing our taxes, and giving us government jobs, The Germans and everyone else is to blame for not overpaying their workforce like we did, and setting low retirement ages while lowering their taxes.
Funny I didnt see fiery protests of this size 10 years ago with banners saying
'Increase our taxes'
'Dont inflate our wages for your political gain'
'Don't Hire so many us in government jobs, there really is no need'
And 'Please Increase our retirement age'
Unlike Autocracies, In a democracy, If you dont protest at the Cause, you have no right to protest at the outcome.
How many people have an education in economics? How many of us saw this comming? People for the most part are short sighted, uninformed and uneducated on most things that concerne the workings of a society.
Why do we have governments? They are the ones that should make the right and difficult decisions. People in charge should be the experts working for common good not just for the popular vote whilst stuffing their pockets. Integrity and competence are the first two qualities one should find in our leaders but are for the most part absent.
Here I point the finger at the voters as they make a decision not based on who is best but on trivial unimportant issues such as abortion.
It doesn't take an economic education to understand that, what has an output must have an input,
when Your wages increase substantially, Education is largely free,
people retire early and still get paid a sufficient
amount,
and all the while Taxes the only real income of the state
remained low, or is falling and tax evasion was rampant
That the money to fund all this must come from somewhere. It's common sense.
That people are 'short sighted, uninformed, and uneducated' is once again
the fault of the people. Information is freely able.
What Greece requires right now is not, 'It's all their fault', what they require right now is 'Ok, we're down on our knees, let's pull ourselfs together for the sake of our children, we'll figure out whose to blame when we get up'
Information is freely available NOT. Monopolizing knowledge is the oldest trick in the book of any ruling class in history.
I think the audit will be more effective. Hope to do the same thing in Canada in the not so distant future.
RR
Very well said! Look at private companies: they are all run by experienced PROFESSIONALS, because only they can really make the companies profitable, well-managed and efficient. In politics, however, you don't have to be a professional as long as you have good connections and a strong support of people, whose interests you will lately have to promote. That's why pilitics stinks, and that's why it will never be efficient and will never be for people.
I cannot say anything else about the obvious stupidity of voters, who care, first of all, like you said, about the view on abortion, religious denomination, the color of candidate's underwear, color of skin, candidate's sexual preferences, etc.
Every election campaign is like a dumb TV show: whoever makes the better joke, wins. No space for educated judgement and what really matters.
This is complete bullshit: 1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings. 2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion. 3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS. 4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.
5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year. 6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction. 7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department. 8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury. 9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction. 10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent. " a deficit problem... cannot be addressed on the backs of the sick, the elderly, the poor, young people...The wealthiest and the largest corporations...e got to contribute. We've got to talk about shared sacrifice."
Hey
I´m an argentinean who came to Ireland after the 2001-2 crisis.
So now I´ve outlived 2 crisis caused by the same cartel: Banks-IMF-WB-complying politicians, and yes, paid for media and all knowing economists. This cartel though can´t operate without yet another party: passive people. As in Ecuador and Argentina, it´s only when people react that things really turn around.
Southamericans, often disregarded as third class citizens of the world, are now an example to follow. There´s hope for Greece (and Ireland)! Just don´t buy into the supposed "lazyness" of the greek, or the irish "happy drinker" stereotypes to justify through gilt the perversity of an unchosen slavery through debt.
Make sure the responsibles go to jail or at least let them take the choppers, instead of innocent young people catching a plane seeking a future abroad.
R
I love South America to be honest. Things actually happen there that aren't bad! Most things that happen in the EU suck atm and it has been like that for quite some time now.
Also, Argentina, like Ecuador, gave IMF the finger in the end. Three cheers for them! The world doesn't come crashing down if you do that, though everyone seems to believe this to be the case. Wasn't it also IMF that advised Argentina to peg the Peso against the USD? IMF is really just a way to keep power in the hands of finance.
I hope the PIIGS give the finger to the IMF and the bondmarkets. That's the best hope they've got.
The governments of PIIGS already gave fingers ... to their own people.
Rodsta, I'm reading this comment directly after I finished the book "Confessions of an Economic Hit Man" by John Perkins, and holy crap you hit the nail directly on the head. The IMF, corporations, and the governments that let themselves be manipulated by the IMF and corporations are the ones responsible.
What we need to do is remove their tool of enslavement: the monetary system. If the monetary system isn't abolished (which is NOT to say we will do a barter or trade economy either) then these same types of cartels will just reappear over and over again to exploit the exploitable. Watch Zeitgeist Addendum, which features John Perkins, and listen to a compelling argument for why the world needs to live in a global resource based economy instead of one with barter, trade, or the monetary system.
You are completely right about IMF, WB and private banks, and what they REALLY do all over the world.
BUT you have to go to Greece and stay there at least for a week to see how Greeks "work" and how everything is "organized" there. "Lazyness" is not enough to describe what has been going on in the country for many years! Greece has been on the same spot for decades, without real industry, and without the public acceptance of the tax concept.
Ireland is totally different - it did have a strong economy (which Greece never had!), and suffered from the financial crisis of 2008-2009. In case of Greece, the financial crisis was just the last nail in its coffin.
Ireland is in the same position and I can say, as an Irish woman living here, it is very frustrating to have politicians meet on one night in November 2008 and sign away our sovereign rights to the Corporate bankers, IMF, EU and Big Business, indebting our nation for generations to come...and all done in a meeting where there was not even someone writing down minutes! What the hell is this all about? The previous commentators are stupid to think that ordinary people are to be held responsible for cronyism, corruption and sums of financial indebtedness that boggle belief!
I'm with you. Obviously, national governments assume TOO MUCH authority when making the deals with IMF and foreign banks. Constitutions should prohibit such practices, otherwise most countries (and especially people) will have PERMANENT and never-ending debts to banks and foreign corporate investors, while enriching TEMPORARY corrupted politicians.
It's now rediculous how easily most governments these days take steps to boost both national and foreign debt of their country! What are they thinking about! It's really scary where the world is heading to...
As a person of greek heritage I find it bewildering that this doco backed by the unionist movement (see credits) provides only one view that being the leftist view. As a fellow contributor said "where were you....Let me guess - right, you conveniently enjoyed the party while it lasted" With excessive wages generous pension schemes early retirement schemes highest level of public service employees in world inefficient economy, rampant black economy, endemic corruption, rousfeti, messon to get jobs. But the people of greece elected these politicians liked the system now its payback time and lets blame everyone else. If you run your finances properly run a tight ship dont live beyond your means you dont have to worry about reposseion or interference by your creditors . Why is it that greeks of the diaspora in general have done well for themselves through sheer hard work savings paying taxes etc.
The comparison to Ecuador is laughable as Ecuador had oil, a commodity that it could sell what does Greece have? Oh that's right the sun and the greek islands and how to be corrupt and think the world or the EU owes them a living. when travelling to Greece my friends relatives that live there think we are stupid for working such long hours saving etc they laugh at us mock us well "who pays the ferryman now"
Great concept borrow money party buy goods have fake jobs retire early on pensions that pay you just as much if not more than when you were working and when money runs out blame everybody else and not pay back. I must go im on my way to a bank to borrow money to buy a Porsche, Ferrari a Villa in Santorini and Monte Carlo not make repayment when due and blame everyone else and call it odious debt
Exactly!
you and Tina Fey are malakes...the people of the diaspora, starting with your parents all cheated on taxes and work very hard - for cash...
Stop holding a grudge on your friends and relatives in the horio for thinking you are stupid. You like most Greek Americans have a chip on your shoulder because no one really likes you when you go to Greece. I don't blame them...we only talk about our cleaning business when we go there and complain that their roads are not straight. Shut up and grow a couple
You and Tina Fey are towards the malaka side of things eh? Let me break it to you, like most kids of the diaspora you owe your success to your parents. And they owe their success to corruption back in the 60s, 70s, and 80s when they came here uneducated from the horio...and now act like everybody is a rube around them talking crap about the xeni, in the very same country that gave them the opportunity to work for cash money and work hard at not paying taxes (on the house and horafia they own in Greece)
I don't really blame our friends and relatives that think we are haza...we are...We go to Greece for 1 month in the summer every year, brag about our cleaning business and complain that they don't have hot water all day and that their roads are crap...do everybody a favor, convince your parents to sell their periousia in Greece and stop visiting them! You and Goldman aren't wanted!
The stupid argument of "excessive benefits and wages" is ridiculous and only applies while there is a race to the bottom. Germany started, led and subsequently won that race to the bottom. The north followed closely. The countries that didn't want to screw their population over lost. It's really that simple.
Completely agree. A very good summary.
In reference to your statement, I would like to inform you as a greek-american (1st generation) living in Greece for 15 years, I do not work as a civil employee, I do not work 5 hours a day, I do not have bank loans for a huge SUV or designer clothes or vacations . Wait a mminute, this sound very familiar, lifestyle that many of my friends living in the states have..There is a private sector that also works and lives in Greece..We work for low wages, 10 hour to 12 hour days, even on weekends, have seen our wages cut (my husband also private sector has had a wage cut and has had no increase in salary for the past 3 years) we have seen inflation rise drastically in the past 4 years to the point we cannot pay our basic utilites.
Sure we are in dept, like millions of people in Greece and the U.S... we have a morgage and a daughter who is studying in college..
Does that mean that I am lazy and living out of my means?
I am the voice of many working middle class who see the future of their children and the grim future of the country (yes from the curruption of the politians) spiraling towards an economic abyss.
It is a shame that you as you say of greek descent to make assumptions on your week vacation about millions of hard working people in this country .
I only speak for the private sector ..the only sector that actually works longer than any other employee in the EU..We are the ones that are being taxed, that have no special privledges on retirement, wages , benifits, medical..isnt that true for the most part in any capitalist govt?..
Which is why you have to do every thing you can to become unionized. The money is there and the profits are created from the surplus labour that you perform after you have earned what you are paid. Only living labour can create new value which is why it is constantly attacked-even though it was crooked politicians and bankers making back room deals that has sunk the economy. These banks are so corrupt they will no longer lend each other money and have to go to the state-all the result of shadow banking and credit default swaps-economic weapons of mass destruction-they need to be outlawed and this entire shadow banking industry needs to be eliminated from the face of the earth. It is far more devastating to societies than any drug could possibly be and it is there that war needs to be declared. Occupy Wall Street it is the moral thing to do-and every country has it's own wall street to occupy. The 99% are beginning to understand social reality more every day-the capitalist social order will not go quietly but it will go-we can only hope that in the process they dont' start a 3rd world war and destroy us all for their avarice and greed and perversions.
RR
You could have saved your time and money making the movie, because you could have simply written in capital letters. EVERYONE ELSE BUT GREECE IS TO BLAME. Wonderful approach for a country that cheated it's way into the Euro monetary union (even paid Lehmann Brothers $300 Mio to doctor their numbers), spending far beyond their means and taking advantage of cheap European loans due to better interest rates as being part of the EU as well as the Euro zone. Damn, where were you guys when all that happened?! Let me guess - right, you conveniently enjoyed the party while it lasted ...
I agree wolf, as a Greek I try to blame all responsible.
But you fail to understand , that IMF - ECB - EU and even our politicians actually saying every last cent of our debt was created JUST by us.. Which is absurd.
I come from a medium-upperclass (if such a thing exists anymore) family, but I worked in Islands (summer part-time jobs) since I was 15 just because I like having MORE money to enjoy.
I am now 26 years old, I worked already 11 years in private sector, in coffee shops, in bars, in hotels and now (since my 22 when I finished my university) in a private company..
I wont bend over for noone.
I earned my standar of living and I wont give it away just to save the banks which enabled the madness of crediting and loaning.
Simply I will pay my dues and NOTHING more.
I hope you understand where I come from.
have you been paying taxes?
Well, the movie does blame the politicians of Greece, so i don't think it's doing anything wrong. You can't blame a population for anything, really. It's too hard to quantify and predict private sector behaviour to be able to expect them to be one way. Also, you cannot blame 12 million people for being "stupid" or "profligate". What you can do, is to blame the government for not introducing policies to make sure this type of problem doesn't happen. I do.
Greece does have problems in it's economic culture (tax-evasion, corruption, etc.), that needs to be admitted. But those problems doesn't have anything to do with this crisis.
The population of Greece are not to blame for their crisis. Whoever thinks they are is a short-sighted idiot who lacks nuance in their aggregate thinking.
Can you swear that you, your relatives and your friends regularly pay taxes in Greece in full amount?
The world is insane.
This is funny. What if USA claim all its debt as odious and refuse to pay it too? Isn't this a nice way out? I can't believe you can put all the blame on other countries and institutions and none on yourself. Look at these arguments in the film:
1) Germany's wages increase too slowly (7%) comparing to other EU countries (27%). Therefore, it hurts Greece's competitiveness as Germany has cheaper labor.
2) The EU is setup in a bad way that takes advantage of Greece.
3) If we pay the debts, people life spans will decrease. People will have no money.
This is ridiculous. You are blaming Germany for cheap labors!!! I am pretty sure Germany's labor is fairly priced. It is your Greece workers being over-paid and this is why you spent too much on foreign goods and get huge debts.
Greece agrees to join EU. No one force Greece to join in the first place. This is like blaming Casio for letting you gamble your money and you want your money back after you lost.
I am pretty sure you will suffer if you have to pay your debt back. Please go watch American TV show "Until debt due us apart", "Max out" or any show with similar title. It will teach you why you should not over-spent and save money.
The odious debt part is purely shameless. Basically, it is trying to convince people that Greece defaulting on its loans is the right thing to do and the comparisons to Ecuador, Iraq, and Cuba are totally not applicable to Greece. The reasons are:
1) Greece are not under any dictatorship (now or recently) (Iraq/Eucador comparison)
2) Greece did not recently gain independence (19 centuries Cuba comparison)
3) Greece DO borrow the money to fill the gap in their government spending
I do not see how the current debt will be mostly odious, or how this will help the Greece government's huge deficit.
People in the world are not stupid and definitely will not let Greece/US/Spain/Ireland/Iceland/Italy/Portugal/England to forget their debt so easily. If they default on their debt or claim it odious, people will not buy their bonds ever again, at least I will not.
It was the USA who invented and used the odious debt argument and it is a good one. Many criminal government's do things against the will and interests of the people they are supposed to be protecting. That is why they get paid and get the perks that they get-because we are to busy working to do it ourselves. Of course with full employment and a reduced work week and expansion of democracy this would change.
RR
Firstly, percentages don't tell us much. 7% of a large wage can still be higher than 27% of a lower wage. I would guess that at the starting point, Germanies salraries would be a lot higher than Greece.
Also, I think some "dots" were not joined in the doc. That section came straight after David Harvey pointing out the obvious (but hidden by capitalists) truth that if you lower wages, there is less money to buy the goods produced, hence economies run on those lines inevitably spiral down.
The implication is that because German wages lowered, the slack in sales was taken up by selling to Greece, which had increasing wages. Even worse, Germany may well have been lending money to Greece, to buy the goods produced in Germany. Again, the doc showed how the US uses this technique, implying that it is of relevance to Greece, but didn't state it outright.
Your comment about "wanting your money back after losing in a casino" is particularly ironic, given that that is exactly what the banks and financiers did and have (so far) succesfully got away with, and is the root cause of this current recession.
Here are similarities that I have seen in multiple countries:
1. No major universities and media channels tell the public how a debt based system works. They don't know or they don't want to tell you. Its both, you look who owns/control education and the media and you will learn that is the same group of people. Thats why finance/economics seems difficult, bc they do it on purpose to get you to follow what their "experts" think.
2. Politicians are always to blame bc they are too corrupt. The truth is you either go along with the banks/corporations and they reward you and make your economy look good while you are in office or you face up against them and they destroy you and your economy. That's why we CAN NOT count on politicians to solve our problems if the PEOPLE do not understand the problem (banks, debt system, and fractional reserve lending).
3. They brainwash you to think that your people are lazy or that they hate your success. This is only to divide and conquer and make you "choose" a politician to give you the illusion that you have a choice while they continue to rob your citizens.
4. The IMF, FED, WB, ECU, EU and any type of acronym steps in to "help" your country. Its all a lie, they are there to get their money and they will push you as far as you allow them to. They make the people pay their debts through taxes and selling your country resources for free or nothing. Then if the people wake up your money is in a tax haven somewhere and the bankers and politicians claim "political" prosecution in some other rich country.
5. Any country that refuses to pay its debts or that do something good for their people are "communist, socialist, evil, crazy" whatever.
I welcome the European and American citizens to the international fight that has been occurring for centuries....the people vs the banks/corporations/and their puppet politicians. I hope Greece and the rest of the world follow the example set by the brave citizens of Iceland.
The problem is not that Greece has a debt. The problem is that Greece needs money. And You cannot get money without compelling to conditions.
If every debt in the world were paid off there would be no reason to have a single unit of currency in circulation. Money is debt, and debt is money. Whatever happened to sharing with no strings attached or unconditional caring for our fellow man? Is it that the majority of our worlds citizens are deathly afraid of any social change or being assigned a label by those who worship and receive their advice from the diseased banking complex. When humanity evolves past the perceived necessity of currency there will be a much greater opportunity of one day achieving true freedom.
I like the idea of odious debt and how it is possible to just stop paying it. erhaps other small goverets will grow a pair and break free of their dependence on excessive debt. That might even aleviate the terrorist problem.
this is leftist propaganda. Irresponsible fiscal policy is to blame.
Please explain further.
Irresponsible fiscal policy .
well put, you brainless sheep. "2 legs baaaad, 4 legs gooood"
You don't have to be insulting, learn to suffer fools gladly.
nice doc =o)
While watching this excellent and educational documentary I couldn't help thinking what we'll do when Social Security and Medicare run out the money in 20 some years....... invade Canada?
You don't have to invade CAnada you already own it without having to be held responsible for any of the political and social problems that this ownership entails-We have the Unions and universal healthcare to blame for this.
RR
Very interessting to see the Greek perspective. The only thing spoiling it a little for me is that I suspect a pretty extreme left bias. Sarah Wagenknecht who was interviewed as the "deputy chairperson of Die Linke" is a plain anti democratic communist. Die Linke is the socialist party of Germany, the direct succesor of the SED that ruled East Germany in a one party dictatorship for more than 40 years. And within this party she's the official head of the "Communist Platform". Having said that, everything she said was plainly true and well known. The corruption of Siemens and upgrade of arms deals to Greece have been and continue to be discussed openly in the media. So why didn't they get a democratic politician to be interviewed for this? There wouldn't have been any problem in finding one to bring up the same facts she did. Spoils the credibility of the doc at least a bit is all I'm saying, it would probably help to know more about the other people being interviewed.
Still it's nice to see a doc about the European part of the problem. While docs about the American's involvement are abundant, I'm pretty annoyed by how hard it sometimes is to find reliable information about the European financial sector. Finding out who influences the European Central Bank and who exactely owns it for example is something that proved to be pretty difficult with no really conclusive answers so far.
Insights anyone?
I don't understand how it spoils the credibility of the statements. If they're true (as you say), then they're true; truth doesn't depend on who said it, but on what was said. I don't think the idea that the earth is not flat is any less credible just because Hitler supported it, for instance. Some truths come from people we don't like - but that is completely irrelevant to their status as truth or not.
With the FED un-audited the US economy is heading down the same road of cut social programs that is so clearly demanded of smaller economies. We in America are being trussed up in the same fashion by bailing out banks. The neoliberal system of credit, debt and payments represented by the IMF and the World Bank are nothing more than the wolves eating the sheep!
I'm not going to pay for the national debt incurred throughout the reign of dictators in the US since W continued his daddy's war for oil and you shouldn't either - monies from this debt served no public interest only private corporations, were used to trample human rights, and funded the expansion of the military industrial complex. These are actions of a dictatorial regime and any debt which it occurs is an odious debt.
What is up with the subs? They dont seem to be working very well and large parts are missing.
yeh some parts of subtitles are not working well/missing but i dont get the feeling I'm missing much there
Very informative. Good to know there are options to the monetary madness. Good for Ecuador. Go for it Greece! Who's next???
I think this is a great documentary, I learned alot about how the EU is structured and how the IMF is systematically taking over everywhere it possibly can. I think it gives us some great examples of just how brutal this neolliberal approach of deregulation and privatization is. We have seen what happened in Chile, Greece, and Argentina when everything is privatized and left up to an unregulated market. It creates a predatory environment where only the strongest, or richest rather, prosper. Common sense should tell us that if you put a system in place that places profit above all else it will self destruct. The larger guys will swallow up the smaller, reduce wages and benefits, the masses can no longer consume nor maintain a decent standard of health even, and the system fails. In the mean time, while it is falling into callapse, horrible injustices and cruelties take place. Expecting anything different is both niave and somewhat arrogant. These are lessons hard learned from history, principles that many men have died to pass on to thier children are dieing, all because of corporate spin and a lack of education or concern amongst the general public.
I agree with you very much and especially the "lack of education or concern amongst the general public" I feel that this is really a very big problem.
Good doc btw tnx Vladko
You may be right but it seems the tradeoff for solving many of the problems we face in todays world is loss of individual freedoms. Overpopulation, pollution, nuclear proliferation all will require not just local or national solutions but international solutions to be
efeceffective.
I agree that what you describe is what takes place very often. But, I don't think it has to be that way. I think that no matter which way you go regulation, deregulation, liberal, conservative- someone will always find a way to capitalize on whatever system we have. I think a regulated system that places humanity above profit yields the least amount of corruption, but there will always be some corruption. Currently the regulatory system that is in place is not in the interest of the markets or the people, its in the interest of huge corporations and the very very rich. In other words I am not saying the current system is the answer, just that this neoliberal approach woud be the nail in the coffin.
In my opinion the way we have to address the corruption is for us, the common people of the world to change the way we think, what we value, what we incourage- and most of all get involved in our democracy again. I mean right now we say we value humans over profit, that ethics and morality matter, that education is important, that violence is wrong- etc. But in the real world that's not what we practice. We pay atheletes better than scientists, we value strength and wealth over integrity or ethical behavior- I mean the hero is never the nerd scientist that cured some desease or some cosmologist that discovered the true nature of reality, its always some gun slinging rambo character. These things seem small but they are more and more increasingly how we translate our real values and priorities to our young. I mean lets face it the nerd doesn't get the girl, doesn't get the flashy car, the attention, that we crave as human beings.
Yet we expect out of this cheap plastic, selfindulgent, destructive existence for a good political leader to be formed? We shape the reality we live in, the future generations that will be our leaders, so forth- Yes, the current system is broken and it quite often demands our freedoms in exchange for easy solutions. But neoliberal capitalism is not the answer, that much we should be able to see clearly. The answer is for us, every one to get involved and take the system back, if we don't get involved- if we continue to just watch American gladiators every night and buy the line of b.s. they hand us- well I think its evident where we are headed. We can take it back now through peaceful means or we will have to take back later in a much more destructive and dangerous way. Everyday that we let this corporate strangle hold tighten its grip on smaller and less fortunate countries around the world it gets that much harder to get it back.
You make a very compelling case. Ever think of running for office?(Sorry, that was uncalled for) I guess I have more recently just gotten a lot more pessimistic about "the nature of humans". It seems no matter who it is we tend to "want to be right" above all else. This causes us to skew our listening and thinking skills towards whatever argument lines up with our experience and this entrenches us in our own positions no matter how open minded we think we are. I guess I just question the basis of democratic institutions which to me is the assumption people have the ability make rational judgments for the good the group. It always seems to go back to what suits "me" best. To me, Bernie Madoff, Enron Execs, and all the others are not as much the culprits as much as the victims of "the love of money". This same greed in my opinion is the same reasons we saw thousands of potential homeowners sign off on mortgage loans they really should have known they could not afford. The banks were guilty of making it too easy out of greed and the borrowers were blinded by that same greed for the "American Dream". If we can't be realistic enough to say I can't afford to pay every dime I have every month(with no plan B) for a mortgage payment how can I make a valid political judgment? So leveling the playing field with regulations and laws is a valid goal in the pursuit of fairness but material gratification equaling self fulfillment is always a trap to be avoided. I did not actually watch this doc simply for the same reason I don’t watch most of them.(time and interest). I get more out of reading the summary and then the comments.
There is no God and we are his prophets.
Cormac McCarthy
The Road.
Be careful - this documentary shows only side of the story: Greece being a "victim" of all other EU countries, companies, international organizations, etc.
Yes, IMF is, basically, evil and promotes the interests of foreign banks and private investors. But in case of Greece, IMF plays the role of a vulture, flying over the body of nearly dead Greece. Did IMF subotage Greek economy and destroyed its factories? No, because Greece didn't have any to begin with.
Like most western countries, greece has not the slightest chance of ever paying back it's debt. And the banks will not accept the loss. So the tax payer will pay for it. And to make that realisation less painfull for working class tax payers in europe the greeks now have to suffer.
I was there before the 2004 Olympics...I wonder if that made things worse?
az
What made things worse: (1) the 2004 Olympics or (2) you coming to Greece? ;)
You are right, my poor english!
az
Az, you made me laugh out loud! No, no, your visit didn't make the situation in Greece any worse! ;-)
Just teasing you! Your Engish is very good for a native French speaker--or even a native English speaker!
Not necessarily. A trend could be starting. Here's hoping.
This doc is a revelation.
Is there some caped crusader out there who can vaporise the corporate cunts with this weapon of mass destruction.
Great doc. More of the same please
In the end, thorough auditing seems to solve some problems. The question is why it wasn't ever done, what mecanisms tainted each system into concealing the way money was borrowed, used, etc.. This leaves us where we started. But then, this whole issue of "odious" or "illegitimate" debt opens the door to escape viciuos circles that trap some societies in unescapable poverty. However this doc is evaluated, I believe hoping for good things can never be lame.
I'm Greek. Of course this is not a documentary about Greece.. As our world is becoming more and more an interconnected whole you should see that even a small country like Greece could cause trouble to the EU and the world. We should find out that we depend on each other: the collapse of Greece would be a disaster for EU and an economic slowdown for the world.
So talking about Greece today means than you try to find out how the modern global system works.
The important thing with the documentary is that it has been produced through small donations...
Pretty lame. Better watch money as debt to understand the whole corrupt system, than to worry about few small countries. Without debt, u wont have any money in existence :D
...than to worry about few small countries..
What the heck was that? Yes we are aware of the debt mechanism you've mentioned, since it's described in hundreds of documentaries so far (not just Money as Debt).
What this documentary is about is just "the causes of the Greek debt crisis in 2010 and possible future solutions that could be given to the problem that are not currently being considered by the government of the country" as it says in the description.
Don't you rather think it's lame to discredit the authors with couple of words just because they're trying to present to us some factual data.
Oops. Sorry for my hard words.
I see and think things globally. Problem is not the Greek-debt crisis or Ireland-debt crisis, its the system as a whole. U cant have a "solution" that fits for Greece, but not for Ireland or Portugal. Eventually all overborrowed economies should meet their rightfully fate, except for taking more loans with interest from zionist international banks! Solution to all economic debt problems is to start by defaulting. Dont pay. Give a clear signal to banksters that their loans were bogus, came out of nothing, and that u are not paying them back. If Banksters revolt, fight them back with civil disobediance or die trying. In any of the above cases, all the worlds people would be on ur side, cause everyone hate the banks now. :D
Dear Guest
It would appear beyond any form of academic discussion to include the shallowness of your purely inept comment. It is moot your "opinion" is driven by forces within the MSM, blaming Greek commoners for corruption of lying, theiving, scumbag politicians, and their legions of `friends`otherwise known as lawyers, accUntants, plutocrats, lobbyists and generals.
However, without knowing wat cUntry you are from, (likely another pompously arrogant and unintelligent ameriKKKano), and to reduce my comment to a single word, I suggest you study a parallel plight of Iceland, and forcibly broaden your incompetent perspectives by studying what has happened in financial markets around the planet.
Yours, very truly.
Peter Carson