Will Work For Free
What's the biggest threat to humanity you can think of? Pollution, disease, natural disasters, terrorism, crime, drugs...? But do we ever think about our basic life support needs? We usually don't have to because luckily for us we have a system. It's a system where you can gain employment and work for money which of course provides access to food, water and shelter. And it's a good thing we have this system because without money you're as good as dead.
But if you don't have a job you don't need to worry because again we have a system. If you're out of work for whatever reason simply apply for government aid. All the people with jobs pay taxes and since the government understands that a certain level of unemployment as to some degree is to be expected, it simply relocates some of that tax money and hands over to those without jobs through a magical process called redistribution. It makes you wonder, if this is the solution for unemployment than where is the threshold? What level of unemployment is sustainable and what would happen if all these jobs suddenly disappear?
This isn't the first time unemployment has been a threat to this system. Twenty years ago unemployment accounted for 10% of the UK's population. It marked one of the worst recessions in their history with significant waves of rioting. However, in 1993 unemployment took a turn. Somehow the jobs came back and things got better. This growth and employment was just what they needed, however only lasted until 2001. Then the rate stagnated and increased again.
By 2009 they were back to 8%. But it is reassuring to see that recent trends of unemployment have slowed since then, or at least it would be reassuring if it weren't for the fact that the increase of the part-time employment runs almost parallel to the decrease of the full-time employment. Technically more people are unemployed and the rate falsely implies a slight slowdown of job loss. In reality the amount of available work is shrinking and the economy is only getting worse.
When we were at school back in the eighties we were taught that in the future most tasks would be automated and it was suggested at the time that we would probably then cut our working week down to a few days a week, giving us all time to pursue leisure and creative activities. It sounded great. In fact what has happened instead is mass unemployment and the zero hour contract. Employers have been able to dispense with workers and still make huge profits while the excess workers have been cast aside into poverty. This will only get worse and this is why much as I like the ideas in the documentary they are just not going to happen. We are going to end up with a massively rich elite who travel the globe from luxury residence to luxury residence while the rest of the populace scrabble to get by on welfare. Nothing convinces me we are moving toward any other kind of future. Corporations now have the power rather than Governments and can transfer their wealth from country to country to avoid paying tax. This means our lives are getting worse not better with increased automation as these corporations are no longer contributing to our welfare systems and services. I love some of the ideas the Zeitgeist Movement have but how can they ever be realised when those with all of the power are basically untouchable and have no interest whatsoever in improving the life of the average person.
This doc stinks
Wonderful idealism. The makers of the film glorified technological advances for 2 hours yet devote only 30 seconds to the 'uneasy period of mass poverty and starvation." This period will be very long as the authors do not touch at all upon lust, gluttony, greed, sloth, wrath, envy, and pride. Those are the base instincts of those in control of governments. In order for some percentage of humanity to live in sustainability, another percentage will suffer "wars on everything" in the reshuffling of control of the energy sources necessary to build their ideal world. I, too was an idealist in my 20's, 30's, and 40's. Now, after seeing 14 years of people ignoring the destruction of the Middle East cultures in favor of Western sustainability, I know that there is only survival of the fittest. And there is nothing ideal about that....
one thing robots cant replace is creative thinking, just as planning projects or programming and things like that and once all of there is actually implemented, cost of living would be significantly reduced. Face it 200 years old system of learning in school is tottaly inefficiant for future and all those that are only tought to repeat tasks and not adapt to new tehnologies can be first ones being replased
I watched an interesting vid on Youtube recently about Modern Monetary Theory and the guy on there told a story about an African country(can't remember which) that prior to its colonization by the British, there was no money, and also no unemployment, because everyone had jobs doing the things that pre-modern people do eg farming, herding cattle etc. The British wanted them to work for them, so they gave them something called a crown which they had to pay a hut tax with, and the only way to get these crowns was to work in the mines etc However, only some of the people could get the work and some inevitably became unemployed. The whole concept espoused by the Zeitgeist movement is really just a return to primitive living, except with our existence sustained by technological means.
I couldn't agree more. I would love to see us return to a mostly agricultural society, making food the centre of our existence. And it doesn't have to be unintellectual or gender divided either. We could take the best of the past and the best of our current and create a much better existence for all...
I love the segment on motivation!!!(the drawings) by "The RSA"
Well done documentary. Very informational, inspiring, interesting and captivating. Really made me think and made me feel good at the same time. This is officially one of my favorite top five documentaries right now: Thrive, Will Work For Free, Food Matters, First Earth and The Secret. If you want to really take a dive into inspiring solutions, self-healing and collective healing, freedom from being a wage-slave, ecological solutions, green energy, green architecture and more... Just watch these five documentaries. One a week for five weeks. I promise you'll be glad you did. :)
I can easily imagine this future....and would love to be around to see it actualized...but unfortunately I think I'm only going to get to witness the downward spiral of the monetary system....I do not believe a Resource Based Economy would be utopia, because with AI, robots, etc new challenges would emerge...but I do believe it would beat the system we have now and have had for the last 300 years or so.... I can't help being reminded of the movie I watched when I was about 10... The Brave New World by Adlus Huxly (sp?).... I keep thinking about the island where they sent the "primitive humans"... which resembled the human sapiens we are today.... I don't know...would we be any happier or is being discontent part of being human????
THIS IS THE BEST documentary about the future! He has great green energy ideas i have never heard of...Its not political either- its just ways to deal issues we will have in the future when robots do the jobs we use to do... Also ways to live when there are no resources to waste anymore.
There was even a machine robot tattoo machine-perfect every time.
It is hard to decide what topic to discuss on this informative eye opening topic.
reward and punishment is the place where all problems and corruption stems from.
So punishing people that murder is where humanity has gone wrong? .........
i believe she was talking about punishment for failing to live up to someone elses requirements, as if it's your entire purpose to do what other people want while neglecting your own needs. that you immediately jumped to the idea of not punishing murderers seems... peculiar...
Janeen had made a universal point....(or at least that's the impression I got).
do you make sweeping generalisations and universal declarations? especially when the sweeping generalisation would include things no sane person would be saying? perhaps. if you can resist that urge, i'd wager someone else could also resist.
it'd be insane to state that murderers should be let free unpunished, yes? there's a LOT of trolls that would say it, but with a name and account, if you feel it's that important, someones other posts, from every other site a post has been made on, could be checked for sanity/troll level... before posting a question in anger.
I am not really sure where this is going?...With respect I think you might of got the wrong impression, I am not a troll, I am just challenging what appears to be a silly statement. Sorry for any confusion.
if you wouldn't say something as loony as 'murderers shouldn't be punished', pretty good chance nobody else would, it's VERY loony. finding out if janeen has -other- patently ridiculous posts around the net may be worth a check, if not, presume she meant something else, till she returns to clarify.
Well your entitled to your opinions on the matter. If someone posts something which I think is a silly universal statement, I have every right to say something.
If she was indeed making a universal point, then my question is justified. As my question points out a major flaw in her reasoning.
and yet, she didn't even suggest that murderers shouldn't be punished, you inferred that. you inferred it from a statement no sane person could possibly get 'don't punish murderers' from, if you think so poorly of people, perhaps it's time to think about purchasing a hidin' cave.
My question is a justified question. She is saying reward and punishment is the place where ALL problems and corruption stems from. Now clearly there must be some occasions where some kind of punishment is needed in society. For example "punishment for people that murder".
THUS......Her statement can not be true.
With respect I feel I have wasted enough time on this matter. I am sure we both have more important things to be doing.
you must have had plenty of time to waste, seeing as you felt it necessary to ask such an odd question of her, but, have fun with your other things.
been reading allot of comments on this section. its all a bit to grand I think we will reach something like the Venus project in are existence but it so far away. I mean the housing stuff we could do but it would be an unbelievable undertaking, impossible if people have to worrie about there meals and housing in the mean time. the west is able to help but wont and even if we changed education tmrw it would take 2 or 3 generations for the west to drop its never ending hunt to be the king of your own little empire.(capitalism a feudal system for everyone. how retarded) I love the farming ideas in this doc and that's where we need to focus if we built a few hundred of these vertical farms in countries like india or Pakistan and told the people there was no charge to use them with in the same 2 or 3 generations community's of truly free individuals could make a living around these towers. free from a money system or class system and just see what happens maybe nothing. maybe life would still look better on the other side we just don't know because we don't try. its not a perfect idea but no more idealistic than anything else iv heard. at the end of the day its all down to education to teach us out of are selfish and aggressive ways. no spiritual bullshit just a new set of learnt behaviours.
Interesting post.
But to build vertical farms would not be cheap. Who would pay for it? Western aid budgets?
My understanding of agriculture output in Pakistan is that it is very fragmented and made up of lots of very small farms/plots of land. Which means a huge chunk of agriculture is subsistence based. It also has a large population. Major land reforms and better government policy and a big shift towards industrial farming would help.
So although I like your post, and these vertical farms seem an interesting idea. The root problem is that things haven't been organised all that well in the first place.
yer its a ridicules idea the land owning system in Pakistan would make this illegal before it could even start. if this idea could work then I think it would be in the smaller easten European countrys like Macedonia or Croatia who rely heavily on imports. of course they could never afford to build it. I just like the idea that a community could support its self without needing a massive patch of land that they could never afford or have to sell most of there crop to live. just makes you realise how far we have to go. we don't experiment in any kind of real change unless its improving what we already do i.e automation in milk production.
Some great points. Yeah I would love to see a vertical farm in operation. Probably wont live long enough to see a fully functioning one in my life time tho... But it has potential to improve peoples life's especially in poorer smaller countries, and countries with poor soil conditions.
For sure NOT in our lifetime...
In the late 60's early 70's, while living in the Miami area I use to go over to Jacques house every Thurs. night to listen to his dream, I was what 27 then he was already and old man, to a 27yr old. I couldn't wait for Thursday's. There were about five people that came every Thurs. that showed up to listen to Jacques dream and his lectures on the bio system of insects and so on. I was the outspoken one in the room, the pain in the ass that kept asking the questions like, "What about when the trash need to be emptied and the person who was suppose to empty the trash said no i don't want to do it and who gets to live in the pent house and who lives in the basement? After we were finished he would pass the hat around and we'd all anti up. Then we would all go down to the local all night cafe and have hot chocolate with wip cream, that being me who had the hot chocolate, and continue the conversation. This man is not all roses and a sweet little do gooder! I don't have it in me right now to give this comment the attention it needs, I'm tired. I will get back to my comment later. This is an incredible journey folks, very complex.
i imagine at almost 100 years old he has evolved considerably and worked through many of this short comings from the past, i think it important though it is not him that matters but the information itself get people to the point where we all contribute along the path of removing reward and punishment which is where every single problem in the world stems from.
see recent reply post to tom432
would love to hear more when you have the chance. I love the guy but I pick up on something. you know such a driven man would have real trouble with his demons.
Jacques lived in the Coconut Grove area of Miami his home was very nautical and tropical in nature and design. Teak woody with maybe some ropes a captains chair, if i remember? (this was forty years ago).
Some times in life the Deity uses the individual for a purpose the individual is unaware of?
I really have to get back to you on this. I wanted to post something to let you know i got your post. I am resting from the ramifications of posting all over the internet. My mind is buzzing in the center of a world wide hissy fit.
I do like posting an communicating one mind to another interesting to me, no form involved; Pure concept without animation - one mind speaking to another
After i have defragged and have my sensitivity back i might post again?
Jacques is a Architectural/Design'er and some how i think he adds the life style - Eco - theories to give justification to his beautiful structures/dwellings and concept applications, in a strange way?
First of all I must say; I question my perception and try to keep an open mind? The Fact that Jacques has lived this long and manifest a dream i witnessed on paper gives credence to admiration.
That being said; Jacques supposes that if we take away the need for money or needs or wants then the greed factor at large will dissipate.
Has Jacques ever witnessed two two year old's when one out of the blue wackes the other one upside the head and takes his toys?
When I asked Jacques what about the person who decides not to carry out a chore he or she is assigned to do or goes against any policy in question? His reply, "We'll handle him".
I stopped asking questions after that.
Jacques had a flip chart on an easel and would show us his beautiful designs' He wore a black boat captains hat or a military looking hat.
He spoke of Eco concepts and how everything has, (paraphrasing), an enemy that eats it...He was a feudalest in that way. Everything seemed too cold - well thought - - - -
I didn't think this i felt it
He is more of a visionary and I will not and can not deny his efforts can not entirely be in vain;
His work so far may be just a small part of an over all systems design now in process; as this madness evolves.
He is definitely an enigma
He has sparked some ideas on self contained closed looped pod systems of living with smaller numbers of people per pod system?
The farms will be in the center of the pod. The population can only expand to the ratio that the farms capacity to provide ls. Closed greenhouse bio domes, fifty feet in diameter thirty feet high. Solar thermostat vent control. Everyone who lives works and plays within the pod, farms, allocates time to community service.
There is a lot more to be said about the above and tweaked, to say the least!
An adjacent Renewable Energy Pod - to fuel the population. In this way we can feasible come of the grid in collective groups, (all organic).
Perhaps the excess Energy processed can be stored or set up to boost adjacent pod population systems, without recourse.
I am not speaking of changing present monetary or government systems. Jacques is! And I am almost within a shadow of a doubt certain that he is in no way shape or form competent to make such suggestions.
He doesn't understand Spirituality? (per his comments on video)?
On a personal note that bothers me.
I always felt there something he wasn't telling me that stuck out like a soar thumb?
HMMM. A robot-built eco-friendly housing center with a 24 hour vend-store and a 3-d printer in every utility closet built next to a vertical farm all surrounded by win turbines, solar panels, and geothermal energy systems.
A guy with lots of unused land and money rusting in tax havens could find that profitable. After all, most everyone likes to be surrounded by the conformity that comes with a pre-deterministic culture.
No, because now you are talking about Private Property. And if you go on that property the land owner has the right to shoot you, legally, as self defense.
So, our notion of property would change. PLUS, who wants to sit around all their life in one spot when cars are automated and Anti Gravity takes us to say the Moon hotel or wherever else?
And if you think Anti Gravity does not exist, I have news for you.
And everybody but the slaves that have to repair the 3d printers, robots, and machines.
Finite creatures laying dreams to mind that forget the fact that said beings are FINITE. Pointless to invent any of this stuff if you really think about it.
I mean, you people think spreading our genome through space would be a good thing?
Let's not and say we did, I don't think it will work out how you presume it will.
The robots do the repairing.
I think some parts of this could work in a Mad-Max future...
we live in a world of punishment and reward. they are the strategy of domination. they create an enemy image, an image of the good guy and the bad guy, they also create judgments and assumptions, none of these can work in harmony with co-operation, so if you want a world without violence war poverty and destruction there can be no childish reward and punishments .
I totally agree. The so called 'Adults' making policy and running the Corporations are acting like Children. I absolutely agree with you. It is as simply as that. We act like Children when Adults know better to not fight over spilled milk, when there is plenty to be had.
We throw away 30% of our food. And there is technology (vertical farms) that could MORE than triple the current food production. Really it is limitless.
They never did explain in detail what wound happen to deranged dangerous people that could never be cured...
IIRC, to deal with say, a mass murdering psychopath, the person would be removed from society (since they are a danger) but not punished. They would be treated as they should, as sick individuals needed medical attention. They wouldn't be re-introduced in society until they are cured.
In a society like the Zeitgeist movement and Venus project proposes, it would be hard to find criminals (since a lot of crimes are caused by socio-economic failures) and those that commit these acts will be mentally ill people. No sane person, in such a society would do crime. If it does happen, then there's a fault in society itself, so that fault needs to be found and society adjusted so it doesn't happen again.
This makes a lot more sense than punishing people. Instead of treating symptoms we'd focus on finding the causes. It's a logical and scientific approach.
So doctors would be the ones that would have to make the hard decision and put someone in a "monitored summer camp."
When people start to talk about people becoming lazy. This experiment is not a material experiment, the robots took care of the material aspect. If you had all the time in the world, to not work in a cube what would you do? Do you really think you would give up and die? Maybe it is OK if you want to just watch TV... but most people will want to travel and see all this tehnology in action and see the world. If it is all automated, it is 100% efficient... near 0 accident prone. People will be FREE. So, what if they want to relax. We have a stigma against just being able to relax.
We have forever, been under stress. Maybe that is why people ACTUALLY FEAR being able to live a stress free life. Devote your time to education, traveling and learning who we really are.
Hmmmm interesting post. I think this is partially aimed at myself.... as I did bring up the lazy issue. Tho its more to do with incentives.
If people no longer have to worry about earning enough money to buy food and pay for shelter, then there is a chance people will just become lazy. Also presumably not everything can be fully automated. For example: complex research? city planning? complex surgery? films? theater? art?
So there will still be some things that need to done by humans. Also after a while, will some people not crave products made by human hands? What if someone started making carved products out of wood by hand in a workshop? Would this be banned?
There would still need to be some kind of incentive structure? People could potentially work a lot less hours in the future. Maybe as little as 2 or 3 days a week. But how do you go about organizing those jobs? Do we train certain people to just learn about genetics, and then they become a genetic researcher without any say? Or will people be offered the chance to choose the few jobs that remain? Or is it just hoped that some people will volunteer?
Also you suggest travelling would possibly become popular? But the old towns we crave, would not really function in the same way. Yes the hotels could potentially be almost fully automated, but the hotel presumably has a limited number of beds? So someone has to choose who can go to Rome and when? Presumably there would be a massive waiting list of several years if not longer?
I don't know that humans will ever be truly free, there is always stuff that needs doing. Curing diseases etc, and then people will want to live longer, so maybe work out some way to grow organs and so on, eventually people will want head transplants so they can live for maybe 200 years or something, if not longer, then the universe needs exploring.
Yes they went over the Incentive bit explained in a long lecture accompannied by a hand drawing what he was lecturing about for iinhancement.
In Freudal Times where Manual Labour was the name of the tune to survive, monetary reward worked. But, what all the scientists were flipping out over, was that when the task was no longer Labour Task but a Task of cognition, like sitting down and solving a problem with your mind, (let us say, since the Lecture left out many examples, Working on a CAD machine, writting a book, writting software, coming up with a complex diagragm ..etc)
Suddenly money on the brain actually got in the way and the incentive was not working, that is, monotary incentive.
And Keep in mind that this, as the lecturer on Incentive studies pointed out, was funded by for study by WHO else? Well no less them our friends at the Federal Reserve Bank sitting around printing money literally out of thim air based on Petro Prices.
So, excuse me if I do not point out the exact Time the lecture can be found in the video, (near middle end, white board Black pen and hand drawing really fast) you can review it.
Now, this is science talking, not some airy feiry pie in the sky study. We are talking Federal Reserve Funded this using top Socialogy and Pathology people.
Labour, money works, non labour, money gets in the way and a 'FLIP' happens.
I can tell you as 'a rat in a lab' I am a computer programmer, geeky type. I am not into management and bossing people around. And money for moneys sake is a Fools game to ME (maybe not to a ditch Digger), because deep down my subconcious knows how 'flawed' and insane money can make people. So, it effects me, sitting while thinking ... working.
Weird! But, what this tells me, is that we are different creatures when pure thought is involved, as far as motivation to help others and reasons for even taking the time to reply to YOU someone I do not know and have no idea who you are... but deep down KNOW that this information NEEDS to be well known to ALL.
And I am willing to share without and take the time.
If I had to walk 2 miles to a store to rely this, maybe some money would get me on my way. :)
Thanks for your response. Some interesting points there, and I thank-you for replying without having to pay you for your time.
I guess some people would possibly volunteer to do jobs that they enjoy. Or maybe for some higher purpose.....
Like I know a tax accountant, that works for free in a homeless shelter one or two weekends a month. (Tho in a Venus Project type city, there would be no need for a tax accountant and presumably no homeless people)
But I am not sure everyone would act in the same manner.
I have watched the RSA doc (its interesting, but the actual things these people were asked to do seem to have little bearing to real-world tasks). Clearly monetary incentive works for the wider economy, as most people want to be promoted at work. Likewise people will often switch jobs for a higher salary.
However there does seem to be a kind of strange thing that happens with those that work in creative industries. Such as programmers, or product designers. But that might have more to do with people being worried about getting fired or in trouble for criticizing a certain design.
Also a lot of people that work in the product design industry, and the people that work higher up in I.T companies tend to get decent salaries. So money probably isn't a massive issue in the first place. What holds back their creativity probably has more to do with budget constraints, and a company/organisation not wanting to take massive risks with new ideas. Likewise in some organisations its very hard to "change things" and there is a lack of honest meetings, where people say how they actual feel about something.
Also I think pizza and beer nights are a great idea. I think Facebook HQ still has one every 2 weeks, where they try new out new ideas.
That said, I do try and keep an open mind, and I always try and keep on top of RSA/TED vids/new research.
Epidemiologists have recently realized all the "time saving" inventions that have "freed" us from our labors are in fact driving depression via the fact that our genome is still written for use in the previous 1.? million years or so. The loss of sunlight, physical activity, and social cohesion that used to be the norm, have been replaced by indoor living, sedentary lifestyle, and "screen time"
Going by their research, I think it's safe to say that Evolution has a trigger built in to prevent us from straying too far from our current build, seeing as how they have charted depression and mental illness rates from around the world and each generation is successively worse. Within a few more generations we should be seeing babies without the will to live, women choosing not to have children because they see no point to it, and grade schoolers offing themselves because they see no light at the end of the tunnel.
The idea that technology will change our species forever is not untold by literature, many intelligent human being saw this coming, and I have zero doubts that as we progress farther, human apathy and dwindling health will be our final culling.
Interesting post.
A rise in apathy and dwindling mental health could well be the future. The points you raised require me to do some research tho.
how could a person be lazy? a person is millions of details when you say a person is lazy your compartmentalizing instead of saying a person is behaving with a particular method that does not benefit a particular situation, in that case there is a reason.
Thank you for your post. I am not entirely sure I get your point.
Dont get me wrong, there is lots of things I like about the Venus Project, and I certainly would be in favor of it. But I think there is a lot of problems surrounding incentive and organizing who does some of the remaining jobs.
Take a look at some UK council estates, which produce very little productive output, as there is lack of incentive.....
In a weird way council estates largely operate like a mini-Venus Project Mega City. People are looked after, they don't have to worry about working, there is 24/7 free medical services, there is food in the fridge, running hot water and so on. Yet we don't seem to see many lawyers, surgeons, philosophers, politicians, architects, dentists emerging from these parts of town.
Ya try to take away wealth and money from someone that has always been rich...It would have to be some kind of catastrophe before this could work...
People from places like councils flats are as you see them , becasue they simply are not motivated in monetary system. Their are left without hope for better future, but what is given to them? Brain wash in tv, radio, news pappers. Do not expect much from them.
That's because they are a product of the current dysfunctional money-based paradigm where everyone is supposed to be economically productive and if you're not, then you're effectively worthless and cannot participate fully in society due to lack of funds and no ability to get them, except through the welfare system, committing crime, selling drugs, prostitution etc. Also,, access to education is limited. Even though they have access to the greatest source of information ever, the internet, they often do not have the intelligence or upbringing to utilize this information fully. A lot of people would rather sit around watching Jeremy Kyle, or some mindless reality TV show, than use their time in the acquisition of knowledge. I've got a TV that I hardly watch anymore because there is very rarely anything for me worth watching that will stimulate my mind. The internet and sites like this have completely replaced the dumbed down crap that the mainstream media puts out.
Interesting post.
Some points tho.
1. People from council estates still have access to free secondary school and sixth form education.On top of this most colleges still have various discounts/grants for those from low-income families.
2. Your suggesting people on council estates "bring something to the table" like what? Its very rare that anything productive comes out of the places. Sometimes there is the occasional successful athlete, and very rarely there is the odd successful story of someone who came from a council estate and became either an MP or a self-made millionaire, and sometimes the odd artist.
I agree with your points about rubbish non-educational TV, and its shame people are more busy uploading photos and pointless status's to various social media platforms or watching reality TV. It would be great if more people read up on economics, philosophy, science etc. But for whatever reason people choose not to. I want people from council estates to become doctors, nurses, teachers, inventors, authors, lawyers, scientists and so on.
A solution might be to open schools for longer, as sometimes council homes can be a dysfunctional place to learn/do homework, with pets and other family members all stuck in one small place.
It doesn't help that uni is now 9k a year, and on top of this lots of people now have degrees, so those without degrees feel under pressure to get one.
Janeen you drank the cool aid didn't you?
I like the Venus Project and what it stands for. I want the best for everyone and at least the Venus Project is a start for a utopia on earth.
utopia on earth would be the concept of "infinite growth" and "free market", a RBE is the same system you have used to design a computer motherboard , that is find solutions to solve problems based on a systematic method
Utopia on earth would mean easy of meeting needs.
Easy of production for meeting needs would destroy needing markets. There for free market does not apply.
Interesting documentary.
That said, I would like to see a documentary that is more
critical of the Venus Project. Although it has some great ideas, there is a lot of questions surrounding incentives, and how to stop people becoming lazy. Also what happens if someone wants something that is of limited supply? Do luxury cars get banned? Expensive watches? Clothing brands? Jewelry? and so on. Although there would probably be no crime, and presumably no drugs....?
I am not entirely sure lots of humans would want such a system tho. As much as most of us hate getting up to go to our boring robotic jobs, would we want to trade it all in for a simpler life without brands? Personally I would love to trade it all in, and have a nice little smart apartment, that runs on green energy and a fridge full of organic produce and a park where I can read a book on my kindle, without having to worry about being mugged or stepping in dog poo. (That's a point will pets be banned in these mega cities?). Or will there be mega cities for people that like pets and mega cities for those that don't?
That said, I think it would be difficult to accommodate for everyone's preferences. Also what are human suppose to be doing? We just sit around working on various cancer cures all day everyday? Surely you can only have so many people working on one thing at once. Okay there is a universe to explore as well, but in a world where humans have little to do, is there still a need for 7 billion people? Plus with less stress and less physical work and better medical facilities, people will live even longer.........?
Presumably there comes a point where someone has to make a choice between a smaller populated hi-tech earth or we start to spread out across the galaxy like some kind of self-righteous planet grabbing virus? Also will humans not get bored?. There is only so many great films to watch and great video games to complete, then what? ....... Clubbing on mars? Scuba diving on the moons of Jupiter? And presumably as more and more diseases get cured, will humans not become more promiscuous? I guess its not a massive issue, as robots will eventually be able to do the job of human parents.
I remember when I used to work at a super-market, and
self-service checkouts arrived one day. It was a great day!, But not everyone was happy, some customers still refuse to use them (as some people are incredibly stupid, and some weirdly insist that a human should be there, these tend to be the same people that still buy newspapers and have never heard of a Kindle/Tablet) and some staff were worried they would be out of a job in 10
years time.
(Currently in the UK self service checkouts are still a minority,
and for some strange reason we still insist of employing humans to sit on a chair at a till for 8/9 hours a day to scan things).
Eventually RF tags will come in, and hopefully one day you can just push your trolley through a gate,and x amount of money will be deducted from your account.
Personally I cant wait for more automation/robotics. Our
current system sucks, its boring and lots of us work in jobs which are basically robotic jobs. No wonder we get home and drink beer and eat fast food and watch Utopian documentaries promising a better world in the future.
I liked some of your points/questions, but I must tell you that I am one of the "incredibly stupid " people who usually gets muddled trying to use the self service check outs; but I keep trying.....
Thank you for your post. Apologies for saying incredibly stupid, I had just come back from the supermarket when I wrote the post, and its one of those things that kind of annoys me.
There is still a few issues sometimes with fruit and veg, and if you want extras i.e cash back, lottery etc, it can take a few times to master it. Keep trying tho, as eventually the people that work in supermarkets will be freed by technology to do more productive things, tho by then presumably our driver-less cars will go to the supermarket and kind of doing our shop by picking it up at some kind of drop off point. This is a good 10-15 years away tho. Anyway I must go, I have a very robotic, very non productive job to go to.
Hahaha!
The super market is a piece of cake, compared to me trying to use the self check- in kiosk at the airport and printing out my own boarding pass!
I really prefer to deal with humans.
A self driving car would be very nice. No more drinking and driving worries.
Thanks for your reply.
I normally put on my best robot voice and loudly say so that the human checkout assistants can hear "You are fired. Please collect your P45. A security guard will accompany you to the exit"
hahahahaha!
your questions are related to a specific viewpoint you have that was fabricated by society for us all to have.for example "laziness" what is it? is laziness a low percentage of effort? if so what percentage of effort is given for a hourly rate of 15$ ? you see in a monetary system no one can "afford" to put in 100percent effort hence the expression "i dont make enough to do that" hence the name of this film.
Hmmm again, I am not entirely sure I get your point. When I go to work, I try and put in as much effort as I can, as I don't want to loose my job. At the end of shift I am usually pretty tired and my feet hurt.
Also to say "i don't make enough to do that" ignores the vast majority of jobs on planet earth. Imagine if McDonald's workers all said "I don't make enough to flip the burgers". They would all be out of a job by lunchtime.
Capitalism is not a perfect system there is a lot wrong with it, but the VENUS PROJECT has its own problems. Especially organizing the remaining labor/jobs. On top of this it will be down to capitalism to create a lot of these automated techniques in the first place, and here probably lies the other massive problem. If companies start creating lots of tools that put people out of work, eventually there is a massive problem with where demand will come from, which in turn causes issues within the capitalist system.
Also its great that we are talking about future Utopian systems, but realistically most of us will not live long enough to see such a system. So in the mean time we might be better off fixing the current system, and getting capital to work in better ways.
One of the biggest problems of recent times, is that huge amounts of potential capital has been swallowed up by various housing bubbles and a very complex financial system. When capital goes into creating new phones or tablets or cars that drive themselves, No one moans.
But when capital is allowed to just sniff out the quickest returns its causes all kinds of problems, and this is really what needs fixing. We need a kind of smarter capitalism, and we need to look at areas where profits cause more harm than good. These areas should left to governments to run. For example: Healthcare and large parts of education.
Eventually something similar to the Venus Project will probably replace capitalism/money. However this is a long way away. A lot of companies are still making good profits, and there is still a lot of fossil fuels left in the ground, so realistically I can’t see any major changes for maybe 100 years or so. That said, some profit making companies are clearly working on some very interesting things. For example Google is working hard on driver-less cars. Eventually advances in automation and advances in robotics will put massive pressures on companies to buy these new technologies. However at the moment it’s still cheaper to pay someone to clean the dishes at the local pub by hand, and this is the other problem. It will probably remain like this for a while.
Laziness is a value judgement implying a character flaw, yet the algorithms that computer science is based on are about getting the best results with the minimum expenditure of resources eg time or RAM usage. That's not laziness- that's efficiency. Society has this thing called the work ethic, in that in order to get society to respect you, you have to work hard. However, there are plenty of people that work their arse off and still get nowhere and there are people who do next to nothing in terms of effort and get really rich either through automation or paying someone else to do it. That's pretty clever if you ask me and not a flaw.
Great documentary, everyone should watch it.
It shows how jobs are being lost to technology and jobs are becoming very redundant. The few jobs that are not replaced by tech are mainly from people who love what they're doing and would continue to do it. It is not all doom and gloom though because in the end, is this a bad thing? Losing jobs and money is bad in this society but what if we changed that?
We chose which path we want to take, either embrace this and live completely different revolutionary lives in which everyone thrives or we can continue on this path until we destroy ourselves. I know which one I prefer (hint: it's the one where everyone thrives).
Loud, tasteless and irritating background music. I quit watching after about 10 minutes.
The background music to your comment was average at best... Judging a book by its cover is wrong but judging an educational film by its background music is flawless!
I am a person that love to learn something new so i couldn't stop watching but the music must of been played on a home Casio keyboard!
Need population control.
People are having less babies then ever before...
I saw a news article on TV, where the Japanese were concerned that their people were not having enough children to support the elderly and the population is in decline. This is happening in most of the developed world. People are not having as many children, and a lot of people are more focused on their careers than having children. The global population, although still growing will eventually start to get smaller. This is the only ethical means of controlling population. All of the other methods are extremely undesirable eg war, spreading disease, starving people.
I only have 1 myself and my boyfriend has none of his own.
unemployment in the UK is quickly being replaced by underemployment.
Not the Venus project again! D:
not that i have anything against it...
I can only imagine this happening if we really run out of resources and food becomes scarce...Like living in a a Mad Max world.
One Global Electronic Non-Profit Bank with only one point of debit and credit which captures everyone bar none! A bank run by society for society and NEVER by owners, rent takers, greedy corporations, insane money junkies or ego driven psychos atypical of our "successful" types.
No funding of WAR ever. No poverty. No Fraud. Complete accountability from everyone. EVERY transaction is open to scrutiny because the alleged 'privacy' we have to hide our share of nothing, is only the hiding place for the elites! That is why 'they' gave you privacy at all. It is a lie. Global insanity has ensured 'we' have NO privacy now, NSA etc., so how about we KNOW exactly what the extent of personal greed is for the stratos dwellers.
We have the technology. Can we save ourselves or are we all pathetic losers needing a Nanny Planet? Monopoly should only have ever been a board game to teach us what NOT to become.
Or do we just accept the defeat of humanity by the bankers and royalty and roll over and continue to kiss arse forever.
This is NOT the thinking that caused the problem. This is a solution.
Before us westerners can tackle the problem of automation in the manual workforce of western countries, perhaps we need to deal with the one-sided exploitation of Africas natural resources, not to mention the heartwarming encouragement and participation we show towards turning the middle east into an uninhabitable sectarian warzone. Oh, and I forgot about China and southeast Asia, maybe we should 3D-print our own electronics and clothes before they come to the inevitable conclusion that our money isn't worth squat?
isn't Western interests meddling with Africa what messed it up in the first place?
It's a Zeitgeist (or Venus Project) show. There, I ruined it for you.
Thats great then,finally something outside of existing wisdom:). After years, they are still the only movement that calls into question capitalism and representing interesting things.From this perspective, it is likely that people with ''capitalist beliefs'' or ideologies will directly ''hate'' those people.
no, its factual information explained in the easiest way possible. after it covers the details it arrives at a solution based on the information it presented leading up to it. it did not offer say 3 alternatives because there is only one. the problems need what they really need to be fixed, the ending shows the truth behind the movement and what it really is and stands for
It's pretty long folks, but it is interesting & kept my attention for most of the time it took to watch/listen. I always enjoy the RSA Animations & the inclusion of such in this doc was well done.
I was disappointed & a little put off by the ending. I won't be a spoiler but I actually groaned out loud & thought to myself that I should have known better & realised this doc's agenda earlier than I did.
how could you be into to it all the way till the end then "disappointed and put off" when the end is the only logical conclusion , and is put together in a way to focus on truth and fact only, it sounds like you have some preconceived notions and misunderstandings that have got you off track from what "the ending" really is , this entire film takes you all the way through to an ending that is the only option. the only "agenda" is pointed out in the film, the only way to be disappointed by his film is if your culture beliefs get in the way of fact truth and logic.
I was actually excited when I realized who had put together this well organized documentary. I think it was a very holistic look at society today, and poses real questions in relation to the future of that society. Although, I must agree the end was a little long-winded...
evolution of humanity, to a higher level built from co-operation, i predict is inevitable.
Well it's pretty much either this or we end up making ourselves extinct. That's what I sadly believe.
I hope it's co-operation that wins.
The only problem in this scenario is how to implement it. It has to be done on a large scale with the understanding that the profit motive will be moot, that any acquired fortunes will become meaningless, that work and living will become mutually separable and that creativity will be the new culture over fashion, religion and possessions.
Actually, and I know this sounds improbable, there is a remarkably simple and relatively pain free (well, for 99% of us) move that would pave the way for a more enlightened social model.
The present problem we face is one of corporate feudalism. Technological advances that should be setting us free from crap jobs are being used to consolidate an insidious misappropriation of common wealth.
Natural resources, the most tragically overlooked of which being land itself, are the property of the inhabitants of that country (or planet, if you want to go all the way), and any usage of that commonwealth should be taxed back into the public coffers and redistributed as a citizen's income. No other form of tax need be paid. It pulls the rug out from under the corporate monopolists, oligarchs and rent seeking parasites, stimulates the economy at a grass roots level and puts the general population back in the driving seat.
I like it, it puts a monetary value on the trees before they're on the truck ! Although, it would probably end up inflating the end cost of goods made from those resources. Such is the way of that 1%, but it would at least incentivise research into renewables and efficient use of non renewables.
I must admit that I made exactly the same objection when first confronted with Henry George's Land Value Tax, but the increase in rent or cost to the tenant or end user, would create an increase in land/resource value and simply be returned to the public coffers at the end of the tax year, so there would be no incentive left to inspire such mean spirited profiteering. You should check out Mark Wadsworth and the people on his blog, they're bang on about this.
This documentary film gave a very detailed explanation of technological unemployment and what it might means for our future. I Highly recommend watching it if you're at all interested in this sort of topic.
Any chance of replacing politicians with robots?
how about not having politicians altogether... why do we need so called representatives who have proven over and over again that they do not represent us? Why not a direct democracy? why not spontaneous order? why do we all look up to this group of thieves and criminals for leadership and guidance?
Direct Democracy?
Have you met 60% of the American people?
They're about as smart as a door knob. Letting them make decisions would be horrible.
Something like 40% of polled Americans think that lasers are powered by sound waves... And you want to let them decide our politics?
That's about the worst idea I've heard, next to our current system.
A door knob would be a tremendous UPGRADE from those clown that currently run things up in Washington if you ask me. Also, a large percentage of Americans don't go out to vote because of how cynical they are (and rightly so) of their vote ever bringing any REAL change to the system.
I apologize but you're wrong.
Everyone and their mom has a "new" way to run things that they think would be perfect, the problem is NONE of them are, including the Zeitgeist approach.
I'm sorry but the whole zeitgeist movement, is far too similar to the "soviet" experiment.
I can't fall for something that we all already know doesn't work.
Power corrupts, so as long as it exists, there will never be a free or equal society.
You advocate pipe dreams and it's very telling that most of the people that support it are pipe users themselves.
I could not agree with you more brother! the only reason why a representative government was needed at all was because we did not have the technology required to directly make the decisions ourselves. So at this point it boggles the mind that we have yet to transition out of representative governments...
because without an established heirarchy, you get dictators.
If you create a power vacuum, the absolute worst people society has to offer will fight to fill it themselves.
Nope, but having robots telling politicians what's best is in the end feasible to hope for.
Long, dizzying, (is that even a word?), interesting and optimistic. Not what I was expecting at all but worth taking the time to watch.
A voluntary abstinence of using this technology and becoming self efficient can make a change in modern society
Personal advanced 3D printers/scanners for the win!
WOW!
Top ten documentary on SeeUat Videos!
Totally worth the 2 hrs.
Thanks Sam Vallely!!!