The War You Don't See
A powerful and timely investigation into the media's role in war, tracing the history of embedded and independent reporting from the carnage of World War One to the destruction of Hiroshima, and from the invasion of Vietnam to the current war in Afghanistan and disaster in Iraq.
As weapons and propaganda become even more sophisticated, the nature of war is developing into an electronic battlefield in which journalists play a key role, and civilians are the victims. But who is the real enemy?
John Pilger says in the film: "We journalists... have to be brave enough to defy those who seek our collusion in selling their latest bloody adventure in someone else's country... That means always challenging the official story, however patriotic that story may appear, however seductive and insidious it is.
For propaganda relies on us in the media to aim its deceptions not at a far away country but at you at home... In this age of endless imperial war, the lives of countless men, women and children depend on the truth or their blood is on us... Those whose job it is to keep the record straight ought to be the voice of people, not power."
Directed by: John Pilger
Super media structures are owned by multi billionaires. And multi billionaires own weapon factories... so they need the fu... journalists to do the propaganda to sell wars and weapons... So simple.
In 1935 or so, the two time congressional medal of honor winning Major General Smedley Butler wrote a piece called "War Is a Racket". Last time I looked you can find it for free with a web search. Definitely worth the read from someone who did his homework and was in the thick of it.
Depending on those, who the political parties put in front of you, isn't getting the job done. Its 83 years later and things haven't improved; they've gotten worse. Government and war are both rackets.
@kimberley Armstrong: Hats off to those who see that the people themselves need to gather together apart from political parties in order to educate the rest. Although "young turks and RT" are not the places to go for unbiased news and information.
The everyday folk gathering together is the only way to take power away from the globalist-bankster-government-corporate-weasels. "government-Corporate" includes the military industrial complex, the corporate owned major media, etc. The only way to stop what they are doing to us is to take away their ability. That means clearing out the bankster corporate minions from government office.
When the people see to it incorruptible people are running in numbers from all parties, so no matter who the lazy minded major media watching bobble heads vote for, someone decent will get in. One or two decent folk won't do, need to clean the majority of congress and state legislators out.
I know some of them. They may vote for something good once but if their party threatens to fund and run someone else against them, they always vote for their job. This is exactly why 1 term limit is a necessity for ALL elected positions.
Politics is war to begin with. It is the politicians that vote for military spending. Propaganda reigns on both fronts. Nothing bad happens without government approval. So how is it so many still believe government is their friend and there to protect them?
There is a reason the founders of the usa desired limited government. More govt power = less power to the people = less freedom. For those who don't get it, Socialism = more govt = less freedom. If you think Capitalism is corrupt you haven't lived in a fully Socialist country.
More government will NOT prevent corruption or prevent bad things. Govt causes more corruption. Nothing bad happens without government approval.
How is it so many are duped into socialism, as if that would be without corruption and bad things? Govt school IS socialism and full of propaganda. Socialism is corrupt by its very nature. It is designed to get rid of the competition, be it in politics or business.
Suppose you come up with a better mousetrap. The big boys decide that better mouse trap would take money out of their pockets so you don't get a permit to build it. Socialists want to control it all in order to steal from you to give to themselves and dribble a little to buy votes with. The rest is just propaganda designed to fool those who are too lazy to do their homework.
Getting others to pay for your stuff IS CORRUPT at its core. Matters not what that stuff is or how bad you want it.
NAZI was a National Socialist party. You can see how the usa Socialists are very similar to the NAZIs in their words and actions. They believe "the ends justify the means" and lie, lie, lie, and lie some more, while calling everyone else liars. Similar to ISLAM who are instructed to lie to the infidel, not to mention sided with the NAZIs.
Then it should not be a surprise to see the globalist bankster minions importing Islamists around the world. Globalism = One world govt = Socialism-Communism. Pitting disparate groups in close proximity causes fear, distrust, conflict, and cries for more govt protection = more govt control = less freedom.
All because you are too lazy to see to it you don't have much better representation.
The propaganda global machine shown in this documentary is right now trying to take down American president Donald J. Trump.
I’m afraid this is true. But he did not help himself he should have created a real fight against climate change lies and of course create a real 911 commission to break to globalists.
kimberley Armstrong
This has surely been done many times and then along comes the "powers" to infiltrate it, take it over and lead it down another path.
Exactly! Look up cultural Marxism, Leninism and (especially) Fabianism to understand that this is exactly what they do.
The fact that USA is just an arm(military) of the powers that be must not be ignored.
They have no power to do anything without orders.
Rough McHewn
"And yes, I think that the Nobel Committee should rip the Peace Prize away from Obama and Kissinger and hand them to Pilger."
I doubt that would ever happen, as the Nobel Committee is probably funded by Obama's and Kissenger's masters.
Good people exist.
Excellent work from John Pilger and insightful interviews as always. Money continues to perpetuate the cycle of violence, and it is getting worse in the US. New York, is a major control center for a lot of this.
I'm the best!
I have this idea that ordinary folks could get together in teams or groups and make posters, flyers etc and at night go around city's and stick em up at bus stops. They can direct people to alternative news channels on YouTube like young turks, RT news Going underground etc or even blogs, websites. You could challeng mainstream media with real facts and figures that contrast with whatever they've printed that day??? Art that sends a message, makes people think?? I mean you could get real creative with it. Meet up with people each week and brainstorm together?? You could even build a really big group, expand club together and rent out a space and show documentarys from YouTube to the public. Hold discussion afterwards? I dunno like someone mentioned in one of the earlier posts. What is needed is ' A revolution of knowledge to awaken the masses'
Knowledge is power and I think us ordinary folk need to make it happen by getting out there!!
Thoughts?? Anyone??
Great documentary. Informative and moving. I liked how it was edited and pit together especially that part where it showed news shows talking about the 'evidence or incontrovertible proof' etc etc and then images of warfare, injured and maimed humans. That had quite an emotional punch in the gut. I think that's really important to make an emotional impact upon people as well as being informative. I actually think they could have gone a little further with the emotional side. I think that's how we get people to listen to what's going on I mean what REALLY going on in the world. Not what people want you to think. Anyways.... @reasons voice I chuckled with your comment about Bush " He was inarticulate and spastic under pressure" hahahha brilliant x
A comment made by Wayne "the independent news sources, however need to do a better job of becoming more obvious to the average citizen"
I kinda get what your saying. I know that you really have to go on the hunt and it takes a while to get to know and critique the good from the bizarre, ridiculous or conspiracy theory ?. So I'm wondering Wayne have you any ideas on what people could do or try to get things more out in the open??? Or anyone else?? Wanna add xx
It confirms what we have always believed. The election of a president does not mean too much. The war machines have a life of their own and since the campaigns of all politicians are financed by corporations which make billions in profit in the military industrial complex nothing will get done. . When you manufacture all those weapons you need to use them up so that you can make more. Obama has not control really. No matter who the people vote for their bidding will not be done.
I have advised my family that keeping careful watch on the system can only allow them to leave ahead of catastrophe. I don't want to live anywhere that war is their business but I am too old now to do much except warn others.
I just wanted to say that as long as this film is allowed to make its appearance again, its up to us the people who watched to re post it as much as we can on other sites, or anywhere else that lets you do that..This will never get time on PBS or any of the others, so this is the only way people will see it. This should be mandatory viewing for every American., but sadly most Americans will never see it...
Iraqi society today, thanks to American help, is defined by house raids, death squads, check points, detentions, curfews, blood in the streets, and constant violence..That's not democracy
Sure it is, it is United Nations democracy. (2 wolves and a sheep deciding what is for supper, in this case - Iraq.)
The United States is not a democracy, its an oligarchy.
My comment was in regards to the United Nations, not the United States.
P.S: Your right, the U.S is not a democracy!
haha sorry I must have been tired when i read that
Exactly: See what the system does to us! (tired, that is)
Thank you John Pilger. With the US pushing a renewed "Cold War" to justify their unlimited military spending, it is good to be reminded how they constantly 'create' new "enemies" to keep the US and "Western" public in a state of fear so they will go along with any weapons program or attack on any targeted country.
With the hysteria currently being generated around the Autonomous Republic of Crimea voting overwhelming to reunify with Russia, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation (CBC) has been running nonsense pieces about how NATO has been letting it's military wither away while the Russian bear is ramping up military spending and will soon overrun the Free World. A quick look-up of "World military spending by country" shows that NATO is outspending Russia by more than 10 to 1, while the USA alone spends almost as much on weapons as the rest of the world combined.
This film was obviously made before Edward Snowden made public the incredible extent of US and British spying on their own citizens, not mention the rest of the world. The Nazi Gestapo or Stalin's KGB could only dream about the NSA's ability to track the exact location most of the world's population minute by minute and secretly turn on the microphones on their phones at will. Not to mention reading all their mail, bering privy to their thoughts, watching what they look up on the internet (such as Johns' movie), and murdering people around the world with missile firing drones at the whim of the US president . . . .
You are correct it was made before that..Lets not forget that the Pentagon has misplaced trillions of dollars that it cannot account for. On Sept 10 2001, the day before 9/11, Don Rumsfeld gave a press conference where he revealed that there was close to 3 trillion dollars was 'misplaced' How on earth does anyone misplace 3 trillion dollars?? That's the national deficit right there.To this very day there is still no account for it, in addition to the billions they waste every year storing things like obsolete ammunition...
There was only one congressperson who ever tried to hold the pentagon accountable for it. I can't remember her name at the moment..Last name was Mckinney or something like. As far as I can tell they assassinated her character and succeeded making her appear to be a nutcase. That's how good they are at covering themselves.
they should all be put in prison all the lyers
We're in a system that directs our attention away from the extremes of this violence. Drawing attention towards it is the best thing we can do to disentangle ourselves. Thank you for this - you are brilliant.
John Pilger is a f*cking hero of journalism.
As far as I can tell, this film has been banned in the USA. Since when does a free and democratic society ban films? I have seen with my own eyes how it disappears from websites every time it gets posted. I know of one where it was posted twice on the same page. On one of the posts it says deleted by Vimeo. On the other it says film does not exist.
Yet it should be the responsibility of every American to see this film. As Americans you really need to ask why is someone making it so hard for you to see it? There are many answers, but I will give you the one that first comes to mind.
Scott Ritter was the UN weapons inspector that everyone saw in those reports about IRAQ not allowing the UN weapon's inspector to do his job before the US ever invaded that country. If you recall, that was one of the main reasons the Bush admin gave for justifying the invasion of Iraq. It was front page news at the time.
But here in this film you see Scott Ritter clearly in focus, freely and willingly, admitting that no one ever stopped him from doing his job.
I remember very clearly that Bush changed the goal posts when it came to the UN inspections and the coming invasion. The U.S. demanded Sadam step down and any refusal to meet that demand (a foregone conclusion really) would result in attack. It ceased to be about the inspections, hampered or not, because the war drums were already beating. So I'm not suprised Scott Ritter said that.
This is really bizarre because now the film is back and its not getting deleted anymore. I can only guess that a decision must have been made that said as long as films like this get no play on any major networks we wont give a **** about the few thousand people who have seen it..After all we can always say they are conspiracy theorists..
haha@conspiracy theorists..But this reminded me of the Lizzie Phelan videos that disappeared during the Libyan adventure. These are the ones we know about...There has to be some we don't know about..
The US plan to use Australia as their centralised base of operations for 'tackling' China.
- Pilger / Assange / Wiki Leaks
Good luck to the US on that one. Ha ha!
there is something else about Australia that's getting zero coverage that many Australians themselves are unaware of. The discovery of oil in Australia is one of the best kept secrets that is no secret. They have at least as much Saudi Arabia does
Why can't we bring charges upon media and their journalists for lying? Why shouldn't we charge the murderers with crimes against humanity and treason for deceiving the country and its laws?
unfortunate he says on the death of children !!!! What the f*** are these yanks but fascists!!
@ 31:52 "every site visited in 2003 (by a reporter) was still sealed from 1991"...we attacked, what we learned after the fact, to be a DEFENSELESS UN compliant sovereign country-Iraq. It is true in my humble estimation-Iraqi's were practically defenseless against a superpower like us led by the Bush admisitration...
Like joabkulnin I would like to download this film or even buy it but I cannot figure out how.
Go to vimeo dot com /32609701....or you can go to Vimeo and do a search for Careers in Journalism. posted by Sax and Violins. Its this film. try watching it there, or try downloading from there....The last time I checked you can't buy it in the US. IF for some reason you do find someone who sells it you will find the dvd wont work in your player because it was made in the European format.
I want to download it but can't find a link. My connection is too slow to watch it online.
I hope that the people who speak to the truth, the courageous voices of conscience, put the rest to shame. Let us hope that they are able to save humantiy.
Wow, the BBC woman at 37m, sounds like she doesn't have a clue what was happening, and trying to cover herself! And then the same woman at 1h05m, and 1h09m - just excusing how we should accept governments all the time, "duty to report. From this I have lost all faith in the BBC!
And who is the man at 1h28m blaming the evidence on film(!) that US soldiers are killing children and committing atrocities... on "the enemy"?
I agree...further she says it wasn't possible to get access...she is incompetent or as you posit covering...she should have said we should gotten access or better yet found ways to do her job instead of what she did do which was follow the war script-the path of least resistance.
I wonder if she now see's what she is saying here s a cop-out?
How many "others" human lives just one 9/11 offer will cost at the end and is it worth continuing that way? And we don´t even talk the money, oil ...etc
Oh, by the way, it was a fine documentary. I guess the moral of the story is while many can't see until hindsight, more importantly, they fail to learn from history.
So, in actuality, they lack hindsight as well as foresight :)
Im with ya, man. Im 48, disabled, 5 kids. 3, almost 4 grown, and Ive never been so scared in my life. I guess now that our Turncoat in Chief signed the NDAA, we better not complain too much, or we can be held indefinitely, without charge, or representation.
Some interesting blogs regarding this documentary. Let me just simplify for the simpletons that protecting one's country, as opposed to protecting your country's interests globally, defines the difference between moral and immoral. Attacking a foreign country for their oil resources is not an act of courage or liberation; it's murder and subjugation. True courage is telling people in authority to go take a flying leap when they haven't a moral leg to stand on. Of course, this requires intelligence before courage, which is quite uncommon for young adults who have limited knowledge from lack of experience. Besides, when they need a job, and the only opportunity is a career in the military because that is what the entire U.S economy is built on, you have to ask yourself; who is profiting off their efforts, and who are you really helping?
Even more so, it requires wisdom, which no one seems to wish to earn any longer.
When asked the question what do people want from life, most people respond with the material things and all the baggage that comes with a consumer society. 1 in 14 million will say enlightenment.
Great movie while it lasted. Looks like the 'big brother' grinches have stopped the movie 01:04:20 mins. I've tried reloading, moving the tab back and forth to no avail. Anyone else faced the same problem?
harry harry i find your comment on this manner "disrespectful" as when in history do you see a liberation by military force (aka war, call it what you will, going in with "military power" is war and it stays this no matter what you say or do) as saving or truly liberating the people of any country. and in this case after 9/11 was it not more of a vendetta than liberation. a documentary like this is a must otherwise i would severely doubt the western world as "democratic".
Yeah, except we didn't go into Iraq because of 9/11. Why do people feel the need to believe in government coverups all the time.
Go watch the X-Files for conspiracies, not the news.
This documentary is disrespectful to every one of our troops, as well as all those UK, Aus and NZ troops who went to Iraq to liberate their people from an oppressive, totalitarian regime which killed its own citizens by the millions. And some of the comments below make me sick.
Your comment is disrespectful to the unarmed civilians they killed, the women they raped, the culture they insulted and the country they left in ruins.
Your comment is also disrespectful to all the young men and women who once at war realise they WANT TO COME HOME and can't!
War is never a winning game.
az
Harry, Harry oh Harry.......
One of the many points of this doc. was to reach people like you and to remove the media cobweb from your face. When you commit genocide the term respect for our troops looses its meanning and value, I find it insulting that you only talk about US, UK, NZ and Aus troops. These days we live in a world that is bigger than the usual commonwealth. You refuse to see the human factor; children, women and helpless people, you offend me.
Aaaah yes! the Anglo-Saxon Warriors, with their righteousness and their whiter than white mind set. Harry do you really believe that c*** you just wrote????? Mate, you must stop getting the News from the main stream media and get off your ass and do some research!!!! If anyone is disrespecting the 'Troops' it is you, just as the 'Troops' were condition and brainwash, so are you, by defending the Establishment who do the brainwashing & the conditioning and by sending the 'Troops' to murder, torture and destroy other nations who have don't nothing to the west but supply the natural resources that keep things running in the west, you should be ashamed of yourself for being so ignorant, and spouting out such mis-information. So why don't you creep back to the hole you've creeped out in the first place.
Your comment reflects a personality that likes to swim in a cesspool of it own ignorance. Go ask any Iraqi if they are better off now than they were under Saddam Hussein and you will get laughed out of the room. Because many will tell you they were better off under Hussein.
Its very obvious you know nothing about Iraq. Iraqis used to have the distinction of having the best health care system in the middle east that was the envy of all of it neighbors. Now they have none. They had a very good education system going that was given a lot of cash and attention by Hussein's regime, Now they have none. Many people used to have clean drinking water and electricity in their homes. Now they are lucky if they have maybe an hour of electricity a day and don't know if the water coming from their taps is contaminated by the radiation that was left by the depleted uranium weapons used by the US. Because in addition to everything else there is a n epidemic of cancer raging there now. That constitutes a war crime in case you didn't know, and I don't think you did know. And, there hasn't been a new hospital built in Iraq since 1983...
Since the illegal Us led invasion began, over 5 million Iraqis lost their homes and have been displaced and are now spread out all over the region as well as north Africa. That's more people than any other nation from any other war in history. And here you are whining like a little girl over some troops being disrespected.
I am not by any means defending Saddam Hussein either. But whoever it was that told you he killed millions of his own citizens was lying. I mean that's just stupid. He did not hate his fellow Iraqi's, that's absurd. The only one who murdered millions of Iraqis was the USA. And let me add, when he did kill 20,000 Kurds, he used the weapons that the USA had given him. No one in the US objected when that happened either. They only objected when he decided to nationalize his oil resources. Which by the way was the same reason the USA helped over throw the democratically elected government of Iran, and replaced it with a totalitarian dictatorship which the US gave its full support until the revolution in Iran came.
That, Madame Ost, is the most reasoned coherent response on this page.
And I must also thank John Pilger for once again putting together a documentary so respectful of and well worth the audience's time.
I think John Pilger is one of the greatest journalists in the world today. And that should tell us that there will never be a Pilger/Obama interview..
Do you guys see the comments by the dreaminfidel and DreamPHD?..His comment may seem somewhat bizarre but I know what he's talking about because I have seen it happen myself....And what he says is true....
There is a documentary you guys should check out called "Deadly Dust" Its a German documentary but most of its in Englsh, Its about the German Dr who went to Iraq and discovered the radioactive dust. It tells a tragic story concerning the outbreak of cancer. As soon as he arrived there he found children playing with the shells from depleted uranium weapons....
They say there are more cancer patients per square mile there than the were at Chernobyl.
I believe that I have seen that, but I don't recall it being under that title, which is not unusual for YouTube. The Dr. travels across Berlin by public transit, only to be turned down by the University and sent on to defense lab?? that was closed: come back tomorrow. In the end he got his confirmation of DU. (Radio-Active substance with a half-life of 4.5 billion yrs. - That is a very long time indeed.)
It is a crime against humanity which the leaders of US, UK and allies should be held accountable for by the ICC, and as you well know - love you for it - it is not the first nor last of their war-crimes.
There is a 5 part series called "Counter Intelligence" on UT that is very enlightening, but I suspect that you may have already viewed them. In any case, it is a real refresher on "American Exceptionalism"!
And yes, Obama has been a total disappointment / disaster, though you didn't say that, it may have been between the lines.
Yes that's the one. You probably seen it under its German name as its also posted under that....The reason I don't say his name is because Obama would not be able to do half the s*it he does had Bush not done things to make it so easy for his successor...This is very disturbing for a number of reasons, but the first one that comes to minds that it suggests someone else is pulling the US president's strings....And then consider who it is that benefits from these presidential decisions. Its all large banking interests, munitions manufactures, and large multi billion dollar corporations. No one else benefits from that do they?
I am sure that you put your finger on it. It really matters little who becomes the President of the USofA as they are but the puppet of the vested interests and each in turn pardoning the prior criminals for their war crimes. Not to mention the crimes perpetrated against their own people in their efforts to sell the people an enemy.
In general, it is a sick society south of 49th, and it seems Harper will sell our soul just to sniff where Bush/Obama pee. The man is sick!
And yes, I think that the Nobel Committee should rip the Peace Prize away from Obama and Kissinger and hand them to Pilger.
As a note, I have quite recently watched on YT a 5 part series called Counter Intelligence that I feel that you would be interested in, though I suspect that you know the majority of what it contains: a refresher of sorts.
And finally, I did catch up to the post that went awol. Much appreciated ;-)
Thank you for the information about series. No I haven't seen it..It seems the only way to find out about things like this is for someone to tell you or else you run into it by accident. There is literally nothing coming from any of the 'established and reliable user friendly' news sources that inform...
When you realize that the major network news sources are owned by guys like Rupert Murdoch. Disney, General Electric, Viacom, and Westinghouse, do I really have to finish the sentence?
Now that I'm looking at those names I'm reminded that the majority of people who subscribe to those news sources very likely will see nothing wrong with them...
So lets just take General Electric out of the box for a second. General Electric literally spends millions every year creating ads and messages in such abundance that most people are convinced that GE is one of those cute and friendly guys who sell you toasters, light bulbs, and spends a lot of time worrying about you and the well beings of your families. I bet most people wouldn't think twice about having the good general over to the house for dinner....
Its the things that GE's ads don't say that end up being the thing that's so revealing. I challenge anyone to find anything that tells you General Electric is literally one of the richest entities in the world whose net worth exceeds the GNP of many nations...The profits GE makes from things like bulbs and toasters, is huge and immense, but insignificant when compared to the profit it makes from its military manufacturing divisions who make things like the guidance systems for ICBMs. The jet engines that power military aircraft, not just for the USA, but any nation that has military aircraft. General Electric does not agonize about who their customers are as long as they pay their bill. General Electric is no different than any other business in that sense.. All that stuff about bringing the good life to you and the concern they have for you and the well being of your family is nothing more than palaver that surrounds any kind of sales pitch whose only real purpose is to convince you that you need something you dont have so they can get your money. Now consider when you start to hear figures that relate to the amount of dollars the pentagon might spend in a year, where do you think they spend those trillions? That's why a company like GE is able to increase its profits almost exponentially during times of war..So lets leave that there. because there is another side to this.
General Electric executives play golf with generals, congressmen, senators and presidents. while they are making generous cash donations to election campaigns and political fundraisers. Lets go to tax time in the year 2010. When it was GE's turn to pay, it ends up they didn't have to pay a single penny because they didn't owe any taxes and it was legal...Please bear with me hold that thought because there is one more piece of info about GE that will bring this full circle to the reason why I'm bothering to explain at all.
Now consdider that all the things I just said about profits and manufactured goods coming from GE, and the trillions spent by the pentagon as wel as the figures that get spent by othr governments in he world acount for less than half of all of GE's profits. Less than half.
That means OVER half of GE's steady flow of incoming cash is the result of something else. And its this aspect of the dilemma that reveals the truly underhanded, immoral, and fraudulent nature of big business and its supporting corporatocracy. Over half of GE's profits come from its own financial services. Financial services is a phrase that refers to the kinds of services you can get at any bank. if you are on the market for one of those 50 million dollar jets, GE can loan you the money to buy the jet from them..With the stipulation you pay back that money plus interest.
General Electric owns NBC. Its the people who own the network who have final say over content, not the government, not the news editors, not the people who read you the final version of the story from teleprompters. In this case it means one o the worlds richest entities, who makes immense profits from the same wars your sons and daughters give their lives for, helps get the mostly corrupt and inept people elected to office, who help make the decision to start these wars in the first place. After all, the people who accepted he donations become indebted to th person made the donation...Are the same people who have the final say over the news content you see on your evening news.
....
The last President to defy his "handlers" had his head blown off in Dallas. Since then, all have been puppets with varying degrees of willingness. Carter resisted most, but they still "got" him. He has been doing penitence ever since.
I want you to know I did respond to this, and for some strange reason the response needs someone's approval..
It happens a lot. It really does. But the truth of the matter is that Iraqi society today, thanks to American help, is defined by house raids, death squads, check points, detentions, curfews, blood in the streets, and constant violence...Call it what you like, but you cant call it democracy.
Excellent comment, Madame Ost. Entirely correct.
Thanks for not labeling me a hater.
Your comments were truthful, and insightful for those who have neither. If anyone ever tried to label you 'a hater' for your comments, it would be mere 'name calling' because that is the response of those who have no rational, or moral conviction. (resorting to personal attacks) Great job Madame, and keep up the good work!
I just saw another film by john pilger from last year called "Utopia"..Its about the 225 year campaign of genocide waged by the Australian government against Aboriginal Australians
karma is a bitch, us and uk military, media and gov.
people must wake the fnck up!!!!
Mainstream media has forgotten their original responsibility as civil and political watchdogs to give the common man his voice back by protecting the common man from those "HE" has placed in power.
Without the media's manipulation to the truth, no government will ever go to war.
Shame on the media...
I think its the other way around. The media gets manipulated by gov. They report the info that they are given by gov. But they need to question some of these things and they aren't for the reasons you saw Dan Rather give in this film.
There are other reason that are not mentioned in the film like who it is that owns the media and how their own agendas affect what gets reported and what doesn't. The people you see reading the teleprompters are not the ones who decide what gets played and what doesn't. They read what's there. The news editors are not the final word either. All of the news departments of all the networks report to the head of the entertainment division of their respective companies. They categorize the news you take so seriously as entertainment.
The real and serious issue is that people have forgotten the bottom line with all of this. A news network is a business like any other. Their true and real purpose is to make a profit. People make the mistake of assuming its purpose is to inform you, and that should explain why so many people are misinformed. Our society has gotten very lazy and we want everyone else to do our thinking for us..BIG MISTAKE.
ok so i saw the trailer for the documentry it was appuling what the americans an the british can do and hide irt from the media
When we, executed Osama Bin Laden, I saw a post that said, I dedicate this day to the 3000+ innocent lives that were lost on 9/11. I would actually complete this post by saying; I dedicate this post to the 3000+ innocent lives that were lost on 9/11 and the 100,000+ innocent Iraqi and Afghan lives that we killed after 9/11 all in the name of "fight against terror".
Shameful and sad!!
what about 35,000 Pakistani Lifes lost Because of so called War on Terror .. Still Americans not believe Pakistanis . why the most powerful people in the world are so Dumb???
They are not dumb, the ones pulling all the strings are "Monsters"
You're missing a zero. Actually it's probably closer to two million by now. Never mind those with missing limbs and other problems.
if you watched the documentary you would know the its over 1 million Iraqis
This may draw some fire, as it did near 9/11/01 when I said it, as the casualty totals were being finalized. I said, "It is a horrifying, terrible loss of life, but we must remember that 3,500+ souls die everyday in awful ways. Under the thumbs of dictators, abject poverty, disease, crime and any atrocity you can imagine, but we will scarcely know of them, because it wasn't a world wide event when they died.....except for them".
Now, that statement is in no way disparaging towards the victims of that woeful day. I don't know that history has ever put such a large scale tragedy in the faces of the entire world before like that. Pearl Harbor or the Hindenburg come to mind, but we weren't watching those events as they happened. It certainly took the air out of our balloon for a long time, but as with any huge loss, all we are left to do is mourn, reach out, grow and most importantly, learn...and please keep a place in your heart for the voiceless and faceless in our country, and the world, that lose their lives early and senselessly everyday, without anyone writing a story about it
“We journalists… have to be brave enough to defy those who seek our collusion in selling their latest bloody adventure in someone else’s country… That means always challenging the official story, however patriotic that story may appear, however seductive and insidious it is." If this did not warn any of you that this documentary had an agenda....you are fools. Along with any who think this guy is such a great researcher, if he says more than a million innocent civilians have died in Iraq. Most of you can be excused because of what you have allowed yourselves and your country to become. Americans, however, should be ashamed of yourselves if you believe the pretty little party quotes that are being spouted on here. Our men and women in uniform are courageous and deserve every respect you can give them. Someone here said the Law of Karma will give them what they deserve...you are right. Karma will be kind to them, not sure what kind of b*tch she will be with you though!
Try this one then: The Oil Factor: Behind the War on Terror
no ur fat
gulping down the FDA approved Kool aid there fella
John Pilger the author is a highly respected, investigative journalist here in Oz...he does not make spurious claims in his highly acclaimed films...do your research...
I don't doubt the courage of the soldiers. I doubt the integrity of their leaders and the gullibility of those that follow.
Karma might be kind to the vets but your government sure ain't. Neither is mine,
Canada Joe
I guess you've done your research hey Tonya? John Pilger tries to shed light on War Mongers & it's effect on innocent people around the globe! While you defend the soldiers who do the dirty work for the war mongers? You called them brave & courageous? How brave is it to be the most powerful nation on the planet, with the most advance military forces fighting nations with no air force, no navy, make shift armies poorly arm with obsolete weapons? How courageous & brave is it to shoot on women & children, on unarm civilians, with drones from what you called real brave men & women sitting in an office 6,000 miles away using a joy stick? John Pilger tries to inform the very ill-inforn USA public, and you see that as a mistake, or a problem. While you try to defend the mindless soldiers who act like Zombies by following orders of terror on people around the globe who have don't nothing to the USA. Tonya, your view to most people outside America would be consider twisted, your view is of blind patriotism regardless of the death & destruction you heap upon other nations & it's people. But, yet you claimed KARMA will fall favourably on your country's force of terror?????
You have no right to talk about our armed services like that being the son of a veteran I suggest that you find your place because I don't see you out there doing anything other than spouting all the "bull" that this man is feeding you because this argument can be made both ways. Remember you are safe behind your computer screen having the freedom to say these things because of who? Thats F*cking right our military!
I have 100 bucks right here and now that says this loudmouth spouting Buchanan did not watch this film. So he doesn't have the right to say anything here period, much less tell other people about what rights they might have. Your military is the reason why you have less freedom now than you did 10 years ago, and your military is the reason why there is a growing anti american sentiment in general around the world. And your military is the reason why its not as safe for Americans to travel abroad as it used to be. The random murders of innocent civilians committed by the military around the globe for decades now guarantees that, It caught up with the Romans, it caught up with the Greeks, and its going to catch up with the USA too. Its just a matter of time.
And I have these words for you.
"When people speak to you about a preventive war, you tell them to go and fight it. After my experience I have come to hate war. War settles nothing"
Those words are the words of the commanding General who lead the largest military invasion ever carried out in history, and was also 34th president of the United States of America, Dwight D. Eisenhower.
Now go back to your mommies computer and try learning something for a change instead of polluting the world with your specialized brand of ignorance.
Everything you just said in these 3 posts should be read by the world after or before watching this, you summed it up perfectly
I am a Disabled Veteran, not the baby of one, or the 34th cousin of another, and in the UNITED STATES, HARRY, ME OR ANYONE HAS THE RIGHT TO SAY OR POST ANYTHING WE SO DESIRE ABOUT ANY ASPECT OF THE GOVERNANCE OF THIS COUNTRY. THAT'S OSTENSIBLY WHY WE FIGHT, YOU CHILD. IS IT ONLY THE 2ND AND 10TH AMENDMENT TO THE CONSTITUTION THAT YOU ACTUALLY RECOGNIZE? HAVE YOU EVER SAID ANYTHING NEGATIVE ABOUT THE COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF?
How about you enlisting, so you have a place to stand to make your remarks. There is nothing different in you banging on about your Dad in the Military, and how that entitles you to condemn any dissenter, and the trust fund baby....meaning both of you have bravado and/or profit from the deeds of others. Put your money where your mouth is.....enlist. Then you can talk that ****.
Well Said - thanks! Its amazing that people are still that ignorant about whats going on in the world.
We are like the Fable Girl with the 2 way mirror. She was born rather homely, so her father, a painter, renders an image of a pretty girl on the reverse side of the mirror, so when she sees herself, she sees nothing but a pretty little girl. Then one day, the mirror was jostled and the actual glass side tipped toward her. Seeing a homely girl in the mirror, she thought it a evil spirit and ran away.
The media has been painting our mirrors for us a lot since the 24 hour news cycle began. Prior to that, our security agencies did most of subterfuge. Id like to think that by now, most of us have dealt with our reflection, but Im more afraid its the majority that wishes for sunshine and lollypops, and dwell in the warmth of cotton-brained infancy. These are the ones who refuse to hear of blemishes, let alone see them. Willful ignorance. The Devil you know. All of these things lead into Blind Faith (Faux News), and Blind, Distorted Patriotism (The other major outlets), in a vain attempt to hold on to the world they thought it was, or if they yell loud enough, and hate even more, gain it back, and build a bridge to the 19th century.
They now say the banks were not prosecuted, because of the fear of a huge bank run, we haven't prosecuted Cheney or any of that mob of filth, probably because of what would come to light....Well, I guess we didn't learn a whit from Watergate, did we? It wasn't a comfortable exercise for the country, but it is one that a mature government and country takes on. We are so soft on these guys, who gladly execute prisoners, laugh in their walnut paneled lodges about the electorate, impose their will on us, and imprison more of its population than any other country, but these guys want to look forward and move on, so let's just drop it.
Who else in life gets to decide if they are prosecuted or not? When it is at our highest levels of government, it behooves us as a Nation to bring each to answer the charges, for if we don't, they know they are unfettered, and free to do as they wish with the Country, despite our wishes to the contrary.
a lot of the shots, and facts and the way they are presented seem like they are plagarized from "war made easy". "war made easy" made a more nuanced point about the media. some but not much sloppy editing and researching, but informative and well argued and it has mark curtis in it! a journalist that is scandalously unkown.
nice,awesome.........it shows the reality
Oh come on now guys, can't you see how "the Burning-Bush" is freeing the people of Iraq; along with the reporters? It won't be too long before they start "freeing" the people in America. You know, from all that tyranny. You all understand it's nothing "personal." They just don't understand being murdered with machine guns is Bush's way of saying "welcome to democracy." What "men in uniform" too. Such brave and wholesome boys they are. So full of need to free the people of Iraq their trigger fingers begin to itch. They just can't wait to do God's work. Remember after all, "God speaks through me," Bush said. Quite frankly, the Law of Karma will give them what they deserve. If not in this life, then the next. You get out of life what you put into it. "He who lives by the sword, will die by the sword."
So you are saying it is ok that terrorist's attacked us on 9/11 and killed thousand's and we shouldn't do anything about it.... who's side are you on you liberal hypocrite!!
Otto, no one is saying that what the terrorists did on 9/11 was ok! However, 1 million Iraqis have been killed since the US invasion, 90% of that figure represents innocent civilians, unarmed men, women and children. Are you suggesting that this is justified? Besides the fact that Iraq had NO weapons of mass destruction and had absolutely nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks. Have you even watched the documentary? As a very proud Australian, I feel very ashamed to know that our troops have been involved in this war. Thank God, for people like John Pilger. I feel as if he has slapped me out of my slumber and has galvanised me into doing something about what I have seen.
Civilians...okay. What makes a civilian a civilian? Clothes? location? How do you identify a civilian as a civilian without being able to ask? As it is well known, his military ran, dropped their uniforms as they KNEW they would be targetted. So, as it is known as well, these former military men, still holding guns but wearing regular 'civilian' clothes kept fighting. Also well known is that the militias etc., funded and equiped by terror-groups, Iran etc. do like to take cover within the regular population, hide themselves, their weapons and will shoot out of civilian cover. Now, IF civilians ALLOW this...they are just as a target as the one shooting. But, because people in Iraq have been living in fear for a very long time under Saddam, they have lost the will, skill and ability to fight against those terror groups, militants, hired guns from other countries. It is obvious that this documentary had an agenda before it was even filmed. This film has as much truth as the idea that the US government is behind 9/11. Very one-sided attempt at being something bigger than it is. And the direction of this 'piece' can be noticed with the opening scene when reporters (so the claim) are seen walking with men with weapons. If you are so dumb as to walk with people carrying guns intended to kill Coalition Soldiers, you can not sit there and cry how bad it is that innocent people got killed, when the Coalition will defend themselves. Don't walk with someone carrying a gun over a battlefield if you don't want to get shot. If reporters don't know this but I do...tells you what sort of reporter that is. Common sense! People DIE in war...might be news to some, but has been a fact for many. Just those few want to express their outrage even if it means maniputaing the truth.
As a civilian, in a crowd....if a couple of guys with kalashnikovs move into the crowd for cover, you are gonna be the guy that makes them leave? Piss poor argument. You already have a civilian population scared to death from all sides, and you honestly expect them to disarm insurrectionists?, or even try and disperse....as if the guys with those AKs are going to just stand in the open after the civilians flee...oh and those guys that had guns with the News crew from Reuters? Freaking Journalists were required to have armed guard escort outside the green zone, so this don't walk with someone carrying a gun don't fly...so the claim...how detestable. Think the little boy in the van may have been using his Radio Shack "My first IED" kit?
Oh, and of course that Apache, with the roided out guys begging, cmon, let us shoot had to defend itself from the danger of a news crew that was a mile away from them. One courageous soldier on the ground sees what's happened, desperately tries to save children, is told it's not our job...and wash your hands, Pilate.
Your Danm right we should do something about 9/11!! Hang George Bush and Dick Cheney!! The Stinking Ragheads did everything but put an ad in the New York Times that they were coming!!
John Pilger makes me proud to be an Australian. Every time he comes to Australia though the media gives him little or no exposure, he is basically censored. You will never see this docco on Australian TV. What I like best about John Pilger's books is the fact, that when you look in the back at the bibliography, he gives you the source for all of his statements. This man does fantastic research. I can't understand why some people seem to have a problem with his voice but I guess I am an Australia, I think it is very well modulated. It must be a cultural thing I guess.
So you're Australian, and? That would be like saying because I am American, it is my fault Bush invaded Iraq? The fact you "belong" to a certain group, it doesn't mean you are like everyone IN that particular group. Good, or bad. Intelligent, or ignorant. You can only claim what YOU are responsible for.
...no way, really? seems like a non sequiter reply to me , he said nothing about responsibility or association.
"The fact you "belong" to a certain group, it doesn't mean you are like everyone IN that particular group"
which is a Strawman; no one said such a thing, and specifically darryl, and niether implied it nor based any inference on such an assumption. in fact it seems to me like you confabulated an entire post and sourced it to darryl.
maybe there is post he did earlier...i dunno
...no way, really? seems like a non sequiter reply to me. , he said nothing about responsibility or association.
"The fact you "belong" to a certain group, it doesn't mean you are like everyone IN that particular group"
which is a Strawman; no one said such a thing, and specifically darryl, and niether implied it nor based any inference on such an assumption. in fact it seems to me like you confabulated an entire post and sourced it to darryl.
maybe there is post he did earlier...i dunno
Anyone from the US that believes we are anything other than an empire is in denial. I would venture to guess out loud that most of the world sees us as an empire.
I love his voice and I'm from the US. Perhaps it's an ad hominem attack.
its showing on sbs one right now! (started at 830pm, 10 april 2011)
Ive seen many of these video's, but nothing get's done about these people/goverment's. We really can't know what there actual agenda's are, and that scare's me more. They can't be stopped. The more I read and watch the more disgusted I feel.
A good point made by vartas. for a citizen of and authoritarian government it is easier to know that everything that comes out of the press is fabricated. but for a citizen of a so called 'democratic government', it is difficult to know.
everyone needs to view this.
it should be in the schools.
it should be shown to every soldier
It should be shown to every human being in every language of the planet.
next their should be a total world wide revolution to end those bastards I shall call the puppet masters.
I am ashamed to be living on a planet run by these monsters
@ProudinUS @Antagonist @Mark Oakley
It is obvious that you feel that blind allegiance to a country makes you some sort of patriot. When the country has lied to us, saying that we stand for "Freedom" around the world, and then bombs the crap out of innocent lives, being patriotic means admitting those lies have been fed to us and standing up for the REAL rights of others around the world to live as we HAD been promised. THAT is a patriot …
You need to pay attention to the actual histories that have gone on behind your back and not blame any other peoples for the lies we have been told. If our countries actually gave a poot for others, we would have intervened in Rwanda, Darfur, Tibet and many more. But we would rather have our service personnel die for oil, not Freedom.
And what the hell is wrong with the UN? Are they under NWO, as well? or are they just impotent?
The UN IS...the NEWO. It's all part of the plan. The cfr will rule the world THROUGH the UN. "Smoke and mirrors."
Good documentary. Painful to watch -- but good. I like John Pilger -- a very sincere man.
@ Reasons Voice
Honestly WWI and WWII was not "great victory for the U.S." the USSR scared Hitler into suicide and the Nazi's surrendered. Also must be noted that WWII was a war fought not by good against evil but many evil superpowers fighting for various reasons lots of young men lost their lives. Innocent people lost their homes and America thrived for many years after this war (mainly because we destroyed our two main competitors Germany & Japan) so technically America has always lived in this made up bubble of fictitious security that it does not posses. America supposedly the strongest army in the world cant defeat small guerrilla forces in the smallest weakest most defenseless poorest 3rd world countries on the planet..
Hitler didn't commit suicide. He escaped through project paperclip with the rest of the Nazi's. That was a burnt double, not the real Adolf. Just like Saddam wasn't really hanged. That was a double as well. The NWO takes care of their own. Unless they get sacrificed.
here he comes again, the strawman builder... mostly what you are saying in this post is unfalsifiable and therefore dubious. as for the NWO i think cybernetics might have something to say about such an entity as the NWO, something like it is unstable, and couldn't really function. buckminster fuller would say "it lacks pattern integrity" it would basically fragment.
i think i disagree with everypoint made in this post, other than "lots of young men lost their lives. innocent people lost their homes".
@ProudinUS
So your ok with the death of innocent children so you can feel more secure?
I understand everyones resent for US GOV.
But the reality is if it weren't for ruthless barbaric,leaders in gov. Our nation would've dwindle long ago.These people were put in for a speacial reason and that's to put the fear of God into other nations....What,do you think you can protect our way of life with global peace.That would be nice,huh? But in the real world I'm affraid that a world power nation needs to pick a few fights every once in a while to keep everyone else in check,and yes,my country does it very brutaly and barbaric.
Everyones talking as if these ruthless leaders have just mysteriously appeared in gov?(Like it or not we need them to accomplish and secure our way of life ) Nah, they've always been there for a special reason. What? do you think our nation was made on handshakes?(That would make for a good fairy tale)No we did it with some serious blood shed and brutal force.
To be realistic we will continue to dominate and take what we need to secure our way of life.(and we will make sure we secure the future for our children)
With that being said it's them Islam monkeys that marred our nation......NOT US GOV. (to be frank, to much commpassion for other countries might just be the thing that destroys us.)
You're a complete i***t! The murdering Presidents weren't put there by God, or by "we the people." People like you are the problem with this country. You're under a spell and don't even know it. The matrix is a strange place when you don't know you're in it. Are you such a fool you think cave-dwellers were in the bunker under the white house with Cheney telling the Military to "stand-down?" Do you think while Bush's brother was in charge of security of the Towers and building 7, that the Muslims snuck in and planted the bombs that brought those Towers down? Are you really that blind? The Bible is a blue-print interpolated by illuminati lackies and the NT was written by the Piso family. "Biblical prophecy" is taking place because the Illuminati is MAKING IT "take place." I suppose you believe we were also attacked at the Gulf of Tonkin? The excuse LBJ used to escalate Viet Nam after Kennedy was ending that war. You need to do a lot of research my friend. And get your head out of your a**!
Sorry GodmanEnki, I've come in quite late into the debate but, why are you even having a suppose conversation with people like ProudinUS? He's not real, this is some kind of 'Hasbara' planted by real sick psychopaths! even someone with a small sense of intelligences will not spout out this nonsense. Keep the debate going with people with a level head and sense of justice for all the on this planet. ProudinUS objective is, to keep the real concern people on this blog from debating the real things that matter, but instead to lead us into slugging match against each other. Keep true information flowing, and just ignore people like ProudinUS, they're NOT real, and if they were, I'm not religious person but, GOD HELP US.
I SAW YOUR SILLY UNRELATED ISSUES ON OTHER SITES, THEY ARE ALL THE SAME, WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING? JUST TRYING TO GET SOME ATTENTION I GUESS...
Sorry but what you're talking about is not "My way of life" Perhaps a totalitarian regime is more to your liking. You sound much like the 16 yr old that kicks the 8 yr olds butt at basketball, then yells "In your face"!
You stand for everything in the US that is not worth protecting, but rather relegated to the scrapheap of half baked, cancerous and dangerous loons that have, at various times, imperiled this Nation with their Bile and Vitriol. It makes me physically ill to think of our soldiers bleeding or dying for your hateful self. May God have Mercy on your Soul.
@Antagonist, with beliefs like that, you can do a lot of bad things. what we do matters, so hatred and killing innocents will come back around to you
The host of this video should be arrested in my opinion for supporting terrorists who like to f*ck little kids like the prophet mohammad did
no wonder most of the world hates the uk and usa.
about time for them all to be had up for war crimes,how the hell can they be allowed to admit they lied and get away with the MURDER of hundreds of thousands(and still counting) of innocent civilians.
there aint no higher power gonna punish them it needs to be done now then maybe the next bunch of war mongers will think twice
"threats this and threats that, got to protect our nation from threats." When you are threatened by someone you don't go and kill their entire neighbourhood, friends and family. This is an outrage and I am ashamed to be a Canadian because of this war. How can our leaders not care about the countless children, women and men they are murdering? And how can citizens support their government and be patriotic when we are fed endless lies and our freedoms are being washed away. I wish there was some other powerful nation that would have the courage to stand up for the innocent civilians and kick the US and British asses right out of there.
A great documentary. Those at the top of the journalistic ladder appear to play an important part in assisting the 'elites' in getting the propaganda out to the masses, and the lower journalists demonstrate their naivety.
Very soon after the threat of war in Iraq, rumours started that the war would be used as a way to increase the revenues of companies such as Haleburton (sp?) - the comments towards the end of this documentary seem to support this.
Propaganda has always been an important part of any government, however it appears it is moving more from talking down the enemy and talking up 'our' heroes, to hiding the crimes committed by those under government control. How horrifying to see that 70% of casualties in the Vietnam war were civilians, and 90% of casualties in the Iraq war are civilians. What is worse is the statements by soldiers (and their masters) that "it's their own fault" because the fighters shouldn't bring their families with them.
@everyone but particularly Reasons voice for post 36, I have always wondered why this war has happened and it is obvious that at least the first objective was to secure the oilfields in iraq and more than likely to implement the pipeline in Afghanistan, but step back for a second, Islam has one objective as a religion and that is to create a situation where they can impose the religion of Islam on everyone. It says in the Koran that no one needs to take up religion but it also says that if a later better command is added which conflicts with an earlier command the first one does not count, this means that if people do not convert to Islam then they should be killed unless they pay homage to Allah and accept second class citizenship.
it is also a command to moslems to not fight unless they have overwhelming superiority, this is to give their numbers a chance to rise and for the moslems to have time to gain the uphand before imposing their will on the weak opponent. This is in the Koran if you dont believe me then watch undercover mosque and then Islam:what the west should know and so I think its best to just trust our leaders for I think that the primary objective has to be to invade iran before they can obtain Nuclear capability and thus be capable of distributing this weoponry to other Islamic states to gain the upper hand on the west.
I wouldnt want to take the risk and see if that happens. Maybe a total war against Islam is inevitable if we are to maintain our way of life and so all this propaganda about fighting for freedom may well be the truth in a roundabout way. I was against it all too before because my impression is that israel are evil and that Vietnam was sick but I think if people really knew the truth about Islam then we may be wondering why we have been messing about and do this properly before they can get Nuclear technology at their disposal, I'm not a war monger but neither do I want to be overtaken by a group of freaks.
Or actually read the Koran, rather than a commentator's take on it. That's if you wish to be fully informed, not just "told something".
@Over the edge; Very true, I wish that we would withdraw all troops now. It is long overdue. I support a second American isolationism. Although temporary, I feel the US should withdraw entirely from the global stage and take the next decade or more to repair home issues. We would still end up looking the bad guy since that includes keeping the billions of foreign aid money here to pour into our economy and fix and develope our aging infrastructure. At least it is a less active form of being the bad guy.
@reasons voice
the Florida ballot issue was the first election not the re-election. i agree that congress agreed with him on going into Iraq but the UN stated clearly that an invasion wasn't warranted . my country (Canada) refused to go along with the states because the UN refused to sanction it (the last time Canada refused to follow the us was Vietnam btw).weather bush was a scapegoat or not is not the issue . the issue is by the time the re-election came around the truth
(no wmd's, no ties to terrorists, no nuclear weapons) was obvious to most but he was still re-elected and the way the world saw it the majority of Americans agreed with the policies regardless of the evidence. not sing the alternative (kerry) was any better or that it is all bush's fault but there was no change at all and the rest of the world saw that as an approval.as an aside i feel that the us has done many good things and i am not anti-American but if the US is going to beat their chest about their accomplishments they have to own up to their failures as well.
they are there fighting for our freedom is another statement that bothers me.
every flag waving patriotic American and British person should be made to watch this film if they have ever thought it is unpatriotic to be anti war after 9 11.
My apologies first portion of preceding post was for @over the edge. only the last part was to @triforce.
@Triforce; I agree that the reelection of Bush for second term may have negatively impacted the worlds view of the US citizens. However that does not take into account the controversy of the botched Florida ballot which led to Bushes reelection. Nor does it account for the fact that bush was merely an inarticulate boob being put on stage as front man for other powers. Let alon the fact that Bush was not solely responsible for Iraq. The US does not invade without majority aprooval of the congress. Congress voted 296-133 for the use of American armed forces in Iraq. This was based uppon the testimony of numerous UN inteligence officials including Colon Powel as to the posession of WMDs by Sadam Husseins regieme.
Was there some alternate conspiracy behind the war? Perhapse there was. But Bush as scape goat is so obviously the intent of those who may have had reason to orchestrate this. The US does not controll the UN or NATO. Both of those organizations were pro invasion.
In answer I never voted for Bush, But not due to this wild assumption that he is some sort of global domination mad man. I didn't vote for him because he was not the right man for the job. He was inarticulate and spastic under pressure. Our options for either election were not great. And considdering the vote of the congress, from which most of our presidential candidates come, the outcome would have been the same. Only now we would be saying that AL Gore was behind this conflict to destroy the worlds oil supply to save his precious O-zone.
@triforce; True enough on the point that the victors write history. However the hint of holocost denyal in your post saddens me.
"The US does not controll the UN or NATO. Both of those organizations were pro invasion. "
No we don't, and neither of those entities supported armed action. You need to read up on that one. We had support for Afghanistan, not Iraq, Iraq is the sand where we pissed away all of the goodwill the world had for us, following 9/11. Just pissed away, and for what? Well, we have gained sideways glances from Nations that thought they knew us.
lol @ people who even for a second thought iraq had anything to do with anything. kill the innocent just in case they are guilty ...and justice for all.
if piecekeeper forces in iraq wants to make peace in iraq make us leave the country. As far as i know there was no war before us attacked.
Finally got to finish this tonight, what a depressing world we live in. Who knows what to believe and what to discredit. Every news program is either scared to death of losing access (CNN) or biased to their particular point of veiw (MSNBC) or controled by some elitist with a particular agenda (FOX NEWS). You can't even trust the older more reputable news outlets (Washingtion Post). Even my heroes while growing up (BBC) have become tainted. The masses seem to like this kind of slanted reporting, in some cases the outlet braggs about their bias (The Newyorker) and still do well. Thats why I have begun to get all my news from independant sources via the internet, but you have to be careful there as well (various conspiracy crazy sites). Looks like we only have one really trustworthy place to turn to, TOPDOC- Go Vlatko, go Vlatko, go Vlatko, go Vlatko (Me kissing up). Seriously all kidding aside, this is a wonderful site and one of the few places were I see a variety of veiw points get equal play.
I once got upset at this site for showing a natzi propaganda film against Jews and posted some critical comments. It was when I had first started coming here. Now I see that Vlatko tries to post every possible veiw point and let us decide which is creditable and which is bogus. Thanks Vlatko, I get it now. You are painting a very realistic portrait of the world we live in and letting us decide what to believe in and what to discredit. We all seem to have different points of veiw. Alot of what I discredit (most conspiracy theories) others hold true (to the point of obsession), and much of what I believe in others condemn (but I will not let them rain on my gum drop reality). I suppose I should not be so judgemental of dissension or belief, we are all trying to make our way in a confusing and deceptive world. I'm just glad you are all here trying, thankyou guys I needed to see that.
@esmuziq- cool. topdoc really rocks.
Yes it is great, with the exception of moderator censorship. I get that some things need a filter, but pure debate shouldn't be held for review, especially after having read some of this thread's posts that were allowed through...
And, we criticize China and many other countries of freedom of press and speech????
At least China is up front and honest about not wanting the public to know everything, and honest about not wanting the public to speak or question the government.
It is the very same here in the United States and in Great Britain...only that we pretend it not to be an issue....but unless the press is embedded....their voice will never be heard!!!!!!!!!!!
Now....that is a great concern and really scary!!!!!!!!
good point @triforce
anyone ever hear of or see that made-for-tv film: Saving Jessica Lynch?
the story was mostly fabricated lies. Jessica even told Diane Sawyer I think it was on an evening tv interview.
modern propaganda is alive and well. it's that much subtler, sneakier. it works, because most americans believe we are killing millions of innocent lives and damaging families in the middle east over something as silly as "freedom". it works because people think 9/11 was an outside terrorist attack. it works because people think 7/7/2005 london subway bombing was a terrorist attack. it works because the TSA and the Patriot Act have been passed with very little counter-arguments.
@Reasons voice
I have to correct you on this idea that Americans were somehow good, WW2 or otherwise.
It's all relative, had Hitler won the war, the holocaust would have never been made public and they, and the whole world would see them not as villains but as heroes!.
- "History is written by the victors."
The reality is Propaganda is going to keep getting worse, and will push the boundaries of distorting reality to a point where it becomes unrecognizable.
For people who aren't plugged into the propaganda barrages of fallacies can instantly recognize the distortions.
For example, if anyone ever watched Nazi or Soviet propaganda, one might laugh and ask how anyone could ever belive such rubbish.
But people did, and so it is with people in America.
Agreed, it fits into my "Sell or throw away your televisions". That is one less way to let them and their lies in.
@reasons voice
i usually agree with you but on this point i cannot.A large part of the world does see Americans as bullies deserved or not. I used to strongly defend the people and blame the government until bush got reelected 20 months after the invasion of Iraq. at that point much of the truth was out there for anybody willing to look. weather it was out of laziness, ignorance or refusing what was apparent to many bush still was re-elected. I am not holding you personally responsible (i have no idea how you voted in either election) i am only stating what a lot of people outside of America saw
unfortunatly, The narration makes this video unwatchable.
ohh the frustration
Waldo I don't believe I grouped all Americans into a group of gullibility ? I clearly was speaking directly to Mark Oakley about the comment he made of Pilgers voice being "pompous" and that being all he took from it ! I am from England and I quite clearly spoke at my delight of him exposing the BBC so I'm not sure what your gettin at on the latter.
I know there is allot of awake aware Americans, all be it a vast minority but I am pretty much 99% sure he is one of yours ! lol
I apologise if you took my personal attack on him as as an overall attack on the US population cos is assure you it wasn't. Peace
Its not so much the awake ones are in such small number, its that we're accused of being unpatriotic, we voted in majority numbers for a guy who for all the world reminded me the most of JFK, but alas, he is merely a good actor.
I would agree the majority is plug-dumb, but not so much the vast majority. I am very concerned about overpopulation, but if those of us above 130 stop having kids, guess which strain wins out in the evolution game? I advocate each person replacing themselves and no more.
A good, satirical comedy that really cuts to our society's bone is "Idiocracy", I highly recommend it to anyone who hasn't seen it. It explains a lot in 2 hours.
@James; "WE" still are. They, the politicos are no longer representing us but only themselves. So no WE are not the global bullies they are.
OH! And incidentally,my fellow AMERICANS,we may deny it,but if you ask folks around the world,WE'RE THE BULLIES OF THE WORLD NOW!WE'RE THE RICH TOUGH GUYS!WE RULE!NO POWER ON EARTH CAN WITHSTAND OUR MIGHT!!GIVE US YOUR RESOURCES OR BE CRUSHED!Like it or not,Americanos,that's what we've become.Global Thugs....didn't we used to be the good guys?
I spent a month in Europe in 2009. In many cases, I found myself embarrassed to say I was American, but I must say, In the 4 countries I visited, they were caring people that didn't automatically lump me in with the acts of our govt. I only met charming person after charming person. I went into a little gift shop at the Campo di Miracoli (Field of Miracles) in Pisa to get a battery for my camera. When I paid, I said "have a lovely day"!, and the young lady that had helped me pointed to the Campanile (Leaning Tower), and said..."When I have this beauty to look out on, how can my day not be lovely"?
Indeed.
people were dumber and less educated in 60's 70' 80' and less access to information. Now with internet and more access to information people are seeing the true behind the lies that they were always there. greed and power. You were never the good guys.
Now we talk much about US due to their actions and because they are an empire now, but British, French and others have their share of "sins" too when they were empires and they still do it today, but not on a large scale like US.
US brought propaganda and lies with their "democracy" to a new level of deceit and manipulation that was never reached so far and man when all this will fall down, it will be the largest and most devastating end of an empire we ever seen so far.
"... people were dumber and less educated in 60's 70' 80'...."
Which is why we went into that smart war in Iraq. People are just as dumb, or at least not paying attention, even when reading mainstream media or screaming
online.
BOY!You guys just can't take a pointless non-sequitur,can you?Oh well,Mark.Try again,bud.Anyway,WALDO-you always have something well thought out to share.Thanks.At least it validates some of my seething contempt for the G.W. Administration and that cunning pack of liars and thieves.Was ANYTHING that came thru their teeth true at all?Nope and nope.Why are we so dumb?WAG THE DOG
More and more I hear people scoff at the major network news outlets. People are losing faith in the verasity of the media. That is a good thing. The independent news sources, however, need to do a better job of becoming more obvious to the average citizen.
Good doc. It seemed to remain non-partisan in its stance wich was a surprise. Few negatives though. While I do agree that the evidence of propaganda media has been present since WWI the presenters attitude is, quite frankly, insane. I can understand being anti war. However to take stance against WWI and WWII is mad. If the allied forces had not gotten involved in those conflicts where would this presenter be? In the events of a nation invading and conquering their neighbors with intent to subjegate it is sadly the duty of others to stop that. If we were to decide that the potential loss of life made deposing a dictator who is bent on world domination was unjustifiable where would our world be?
Second is the African Americal political figure interviewd in regards to Obama. What I don't understand is why she keeps saying "The balck political establishment" and "the black people" etc. Seems she is more racially motivated, biased, and oriented than she should be. In a country that claims time and again that our goal is to eliminate racial boudaries etc. It seems that attitude would be antithema.
Overall a great doc. with an inarguably important message that we as the people need to have accurate information and that we are being deliberately misled.
@ denchernyk
I would like to believe that they would be judged at some point myself, what they did is apalling. But I am afraid that this whole idea of ultimate judgement after death is nothing but our desire for poetic justice over riding our reason and logic. We shouldn't leave it up to some imaginary diety to set things right, they should be judged right here right now.
I understand why Obama didn't try and hold them accountable though, we were in a huge finacial crisis and he needed republican conservative cooperation to get anything done. He would have never gotten it if he had of went after Bush, besdies Cheney is who really made the decisions in the presidency. Bush was just a front man, too thick headed to even know he was being used by the neocon machine that aims to keep America THE global power at all times. Also, this would have consumed the country and congress at a time when they had to pay attention to other things.
I think that the United Nations should hold them accountable, Cheney first. What they did affected the whole world, not just America. Now we Americans have to put up with all the hatred and contempt toward ourselves on line, the American way of life and what we have always stood for in the past has been destroyed by these men- Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, the entire Bush family, Douglas Feith, William Luti, Stephen Hadley, Richard Perle, Condalisa Rice, Donald Rumsfeld, Newt Gingrich, Rupert Murdock and the fox news family, and many more neocon criminals. And now we have a bunch of neocons in disguise calling themselves the tea party coming to power and capturing the negative emotions of the American people inorder to keep the agenda steered in the direction they want. They demonize anything that isn't christian, imigrants, the poor and use the irrational fear of terrorism as a label to discredit and divide. I am losing faith in the American people to set things right. We have lost the ability to think critically and been distracted by the massive weight of just surviving in this country anymore.
@ One
And I can't believe that after watching this informative film someone would group all Americans into the same gullability. They exposed propaganda taking place all over the world in this film, not just in America. Yes, it happens here on a mass scale and people buy into here on mass scale, but the same can be said for Brittian during WW1 and much of WW2 as well as the invasion of Iraq by Tony Blair and Bush. Though I will admit that Churchill at times was brutally honest with the British citizenry. We are all susceptible to propaganda and all pour governments are guilty of it. That said, gees Mark couldn't you get past what I found to be a charming accent and pay attention to the message?
I am not surprised at the actions of the British, Israeli or US governments. I never put them on a high platform to begin with. But this luxury of illusion is dependent on their populations having prosperity and opportunity. When that is taken away, the populations in England and the USA become angry. This is why Julian is getting popular attention. People are economically hurting like never before the 1930s Great Depression and trust for the government is failing. This seriously threatens USA and British governments power to continue these wars.
After watching this docuit appears that the elitist will listen to no one, they gamble with out lives and lie to us about it, the people of the earth should realize that we out number these devils millions to one. If we do not light our torches now and challenge these people then I am afraid we are finished. We will experience nuclear war in our life times. There needs to be a revolution of knowledge to awaken the masses to this destiny that they can easily change.
That why they want to control the news, information is power. Read the book 'Confessions of an Economic Hitman' and you will be shocked at just how these people have taken over the whole world.
Rise up o' you mighty patriots.
I am not a big reader. All my research on the behavior of this lying stinking imperalistic govenment comes from independent films such as this. This film is extremely blunt and informative. It is just heart breaking to see the pain and suffering the US government brings to other parts of the world under false pretenses. The War You Don,t See just confirms all the imformation I have been gathering over the past few years.
Art Pelley
Required viewing for all Americans (U.S.A.). Unfortunately I fear the majority of them would believe this doc to be enemy propaganda. The timing of this & Wikileaks albeit a good thing, is all too little too late. At the very least maybe the world will start to get the truth if we are allowed to use technology freely & we will avoid travesties such as these in the future. It is nothing short of criminal what the media, western military & politicians have incited through dark agendas & lies.
I have read some of John Pilgers stuff in the past. How refreshing the wind of honestly in your face,thank you John. If you read some of his books you will see a frank sometimes brutal honesty, I espcially liked My Own Country brilliant read. The world has become a very corrupt and evil place, the wellthiest have total control of the governments and its people, we are all slaves to thier greed and want for power. Wake up people you've been invaded and you dont even know it.
Speaking as an American, Mark Oakley wouldn't know a great journalist if it bit him on the backside. This Australian is *The Real Deal* with the credentials and credibility to make Bob Woodward's testicles shrivel. I *LOVE* how he blistered the BBC lady unmercifully. I may NOT agree with the man's politics, but he's GOT A DAMN POINT, and he's absolutely NOT stupid. John Pilger RAWKS.
Mark Oakley no doubt you are American ?
Just astounds me how anyone can come away form watching this to just comment on the man's voice .... are you for REAL !!! ???
So much respect for John Pilger a true Journalist of our time, which due to the appealing state of the Mainstream media could also give him the title Revolutionist.
In a time of universal deceit — telling the truth is a revolutionary act. George Orwell
I saw this when it was shown on ITV3 in England and is definitely a must see documentary !
Its great how he got to interview the Us and UK Journalists face to face asking all the hard hitting questions. It was good to see Ragi Omah of the BBC admit he hadn't done his job properly.
I
5 stars The best Docu I've seen in a long long time.
standing ovation for those who speak out against the machine.... yaaaaaaaaa
bd thumbs up!!!
the real terriosts G.Bush and Tony Blair will pay for their war crimes;if not in this life then in the next life when they will answer to a hiher power.amen
I hate this journalists talking voice, Its just so damn annoying and its pompous
Then pay attention to the context (like we are doing when we ignore your ignorance of the English language in order to decipher the meaning of your post).
when i said entertaining i mean there incredible mass deception not the suffering and death of innocent people... and also one has to take in the fact these folks have plans for the next 100 years so that means there are making plans for your kids!!!!! forget about you they already have you
lol they seem to get better with there propaganda with every war i wonder what there going to say to justify a war nuclur war with china or arctic war with Russia or future energy wars with everyone else...i guess we have no choice but to wait and see but it should be very entertaining
i wonder if bbc is gonna play this docu :)