Thunderbolts of the Gods
7.13
Ratings: 7.13/10 from 61 users.
This film introduces you to the key themes of the Thunderbolts theory and includes interviews with a number of the principal figures in Electric Universe research.
Thunderbolts is designed to prepare the viewer for the work of David Talbott and Wallace Thornhill now being presented in a monograph series of which THUNDERBOLTS OF THE GODS is the first, the ELECTRIC UNIVERSE the second. The film also includes contributions from other members of the ‘THUNDERBOLTS PROJECT’ group.
The Thunderbolts promises the viewer, in 64 minutes, a clear understanding of the major elements of the theory being explored by Talbott, Thornhill and their associates.
(ahem) ... also interesting about the book "The World is Sound - Nada Brahma" is how the Major and Minor musical 'scales' inform or relate to the mathematics and proportions of the physical universe. For instance in all biological systems (plant/animals/insects etc) .. ie 'living organisms' the *major* scale is revealed in the gender *male* forms while the *minor* scale is revealed by the female forms.
In non-living forms like minerals and so forth it's only the *major* scale that informs their geometry and proportion.
This applies all the way out to solar systems and most certainly beyond as well as down into the atomic and subatomic levels. In fact one of the 17th or 18th century astronomers (Kepler?) used this 'music of the spheres' idea to postulate where one of the great planets would be found and indeed it was eventually discovered right where it should be according to *major scale* mathematics.
fascinating stuff .... God is GOOD!!!
I didn't mean to leave out the magnetic forces music unleashes through it's 'dancing' whirls and swirls of rotational vortexual (sorry I had to add it to my dictionary too!) attractive/distractive IN/OUT breaths of spinning interactivities of all kinds
addendumitis ... and so it's certainly clear (to me at least, and really as He reveals to us in scripture) that GOD by act of creative WILL by His all powerful divine mind through action of His VOICE/sound/music/vibration/resonance/amplification/pebble-in-the-pond-rippling-infinitely-OUT not only causes 'stuff' into existence through the *organizing* principles of mathematically exquisite sound/vibration but all that motion-in-motion then works further in ways we will spend the rest of eternity studying (and or playing with) on said 'stuff' creating thermo/dynamic/"electrical" forces of all kinds bringing all that we now see into existence
sorry to wax so 'poetic' but this IS .. GOD .. we're (or at least *I'm*) talking about and there's only SO far the human mind can (or will EVER be able to) go before we return over and over and over to, and are overwhelmed by, pure AWE STRUCKEDNESS, CELEBRATION, WORSHIP, and REVERENCE ... in the midst of all that SWEET {{{SWEET}}} music ... there'll BE MUSIC (simply) EVERYWHERE .... ALL AROUND THE "WORLD"(s)
a couple other thoughts of note (sorry!) re music .... and the 'power' thereof
once you allow things to go 'there' ... you get into such things as 'amplification' and 'resonance' ... music is totally 'self organizing' ... it 'suggests' things .. has movement ... tangents ... discussions ... argument ... entwines itself in exquisite 'relational story lines' .. 'songs' ... which along with the inside/inside innate structure of the sound/vibration that, say, a 'pure note' has in and of itself ... that 'makes' that particular note 'a note' giving it it's being and shape ... it's 'sound'.
And then along with that, each note strung together 'creatively' then makes the 'song' already mentioned that brings or suggests and then creates such things as 'bridges' and other *structural components* that just goes on from there ... no end in sight ... the dance of life eternal.
I see fractal imagery as the bride or groom of sound/music ... *definitely* a marriage. And definitely NOT one of mere *convenience* ... hahaha ... but literally the primordial "love match made in heaven" ... ;) ... what was the first thing that God created with His VOICE (his song?) ... LIGHT ... and so there WAS!!
"The World Is Sound: Nada Brahma: Music and the Landscape of Consciousness"
by Joachim-Ernst Berendt
A truly fascinating book I read years and years ago exploring (and revealing) many of the exceptional qualities, aspects, and powers of sound ... particularly organized, mathematically beautiful, sound .. ie 'music' ... that now as a Christian who actually believes the bible, taking it at it's 'Word' sees it's opening description of God's creation of *everything* in a whole new light in which God not only literally 'speaks/sings' His creation into existence but maintains it by that ... *creative* art.
Although the book ranges far and wide in scope, after reading it it becomes clear we, and all that is, are literally bathed in ... no ... *encoded by* ... MUSIC ... sweet sweet music ... there'll be music everywhere .... in such unusual ways nobody seems to think or certainly talk much about except musicians and those who love music
And God said .... "let there be ... "
In all my years, I've repeatedly observed a human condition that seems undeniable; that some people chose to trust their indoctrinators, buying into what they were first taught, rather than simply viewing it as information which "may" have merit under certain conditions, until something better comes along. Not entirely their fault since some indoctrinators like to think they are correct and "the way it is" rather than telling the lads and lassies they are merely espousing a theory. So why do some seem to get so irritated at additional information? Because what they bought into, their world view is being challenged. Because they might be wrong and they don't like to be wrong. No scientist is perfect. Not the fellows in this docu and certainly not those who find absolutely no merit in anything they said.
Einstein was not the only one dissatisfied with his theories. Tesla chuckled at the speed of light being an upper limit to speed since experimentation proved otherwise, such as instantaneous actions at a distance. He mentioned the name of another scientist who determined the rotation of electrons? to be about 1.24 times the speed of light (if I recall the number correctly). I refer to Tesla because he did a lot of experimentation and made things that worked rather than postulating and then trying to find some math to prove it. His theory was that items smaller than electrons were responsible for current flow in a metal. That the electrons were the things causing heat build up due to being in the way of the other particles.
Then there are scientists who believe that gravity isn't what you have been led to believe at all. They think it a PUSH instead of a pull. An everywhere force that pushes from all sides. The force gets blocked or partially so, on one side, by an object in the way, such as the earth blocking that side of that force from you. So you are pushed to the ground by the unblocked side of that force. Scientists have claimed that there is a tremendously huge amount of energy in a cubic centimeter of space or air around you. Accessing this field of energy or aether is the problem. They speak of plucking like a guitar string.
Eric Dollard mentioned that someone asked him to investigate the sun (not sure who or why) but he determined that it was more of a porthole through which the light radiates rather than a burning ball.
Wish I could refer folks to some neat videos by a physicist who seemed to replicate the look of galaxies in his lab with plasma. Then used medium sized magnetic bowls with holes at their center to describe how things work at the atomic level are the same at the galaxy level.
I am glad they are working on an electric theory of the universe, even if may only be part of the picture. It sure helps confirm a number of doubts I had about what the indoctrinators have been saying for too long.
If we consider all the existing theories which tie together to be, what we can call, M theory, then yes there are holes. Modern science admits that, which is why it continues to build upon and strengthen our existing knowledge. The beauty of modern science is that it acknowledges its short comings.
The Electric Universe/Plasma Theory doesn't acknowledge shortcomings. And, in fact, directly ignores contradicting evidence. There's a reason most of the world's brilliant minds discount this work. And no, it's not because of a conspiracy or ignorance. The 'theory' just doesn't stack up to what we know and can prove.
I came into this video open minded. About half way I was losing interest. About 45 minutes in I was convinced it was absolute hogwash.
I just finished Immanuel Velikovsky's 1950 book 'World's in Collision.' I hear his basic 'catastrophic' ideas drawn from mythology and his electric predictions throughout this presentation, but never heard him mentioned or credited. The interdisciplinary approach works against the pet-interests of specialists. The evidence is well synthesized. Well worth watching for my bit.
A one sided presentation indeed with no one from accepted science fields to either corroborate or present contrary views.
It is quite possible that these fellas drank too much water near Sedona..
"All truth passes through three stages; First it is ridiculed, second it's violently opposed, third it is accepted as self evident." Nearly every one of the great paradigm shifts in science has at first been ridiculed, marginalized or openly dismissed until it was then proven true.
its fake sadly, they talk about comets and show a picture of a Ragnarok painting, lame.
Fascinating video. Plasma Cosmology offers a sensible alternative to the prevailing math based dogmas. The trouble is, while these new electric theories are evidential, cosmology today is dominated by mathematicians and not real scientists. It is almost impossible to model plasmas mathematically, so unless we can change a lot of the personnel...
I studied and worked with plasma in the laboratory for a few years. So, as a research scientist I subscribe for every word of these outstanding people who DARED TO OPEN our eyes to the reality. GREAT STUFF! WELL DONE!!
Having watched this presentation again after several years, the proposed model still makes a lot of sense to my simplistic mind. So much so that i am convinced that it might take quite a while before it will be allowed to become standard lore to academia.
Very interesting i left this docu with a lot of questions,i then searched the facts on Google Scholar and to my amazement found most of the information to be fact.I was not taught any of this theory and most of this theory stands up to subjection. 10/10
I dont understand all the hate towards this documentary. Dont people understand how science is done? It all starts with an idea, hypothesis, testing and then results. I cant say ive watched the whole thing because the youtube link is broken which sent me here and now the video is private for some reason.
It doesnt seem all that farfetched. Gravity IS a weak force when put in perspective. And seeing as how all matter is purely energy condensed to a slow vibration, it seems as though an electric universe is pretty convincing. Just look at the way the sun behaves, the earths own magnetism. Im not saying that gravity doesnt play a part, but NO ONE KNOWS WHAT GRAVITY IS. Einsteins theory of relativity has recently fallen on its face since light is not a constant, weve been able to slow it down. And there is unconfirmed talks of particles traveling faster than light, again unconfirmed.
Now i would like to see all of your credentials that say you know half as much about what your talking about than these guys, WHO GET PAID TO DO THIS S*IT FOR A LIVING
Interesting theory and have a gut feeling they are correct which explains postulations and binds ancient knowledge with the present. In reality because the universe is so diverse a combination of these theories must be correct.
It seems like the cruxt of this concept is:
5-10 thousand years ago, the planets were much closer together. So close, in fact, that planetary surface features and even the rings of Saturn were visible to the naked eye. Perhaps this interesting idea was only brushed upon here because it has less to do with plasma-cosmology and everything to do with mythology.
I've always wondered how the ancient star-worshiping cultures had such detailed knowledge of the planet's appearances.
Too bad I can't find any other reference material on this subject.
no. watch the documentary. the WHOLE documentary. not just the first bit.
I watched the whole doc. Nothing impacts on mythology. And @ mudshark to what are you referring? Were Saturn's rings known before the telescope? And are there other myths relating to extraterrestrial appearances of which you are aware?
being an old engineer i appreciate the attention to the world i was part of and
occasionally witnessed such phenoms.
This documentary focuses way to much on interpretation and very little on evidence. Its interesting, but its not likely to be true. If it is true, theres no reason someone should believe what they're saying after watching this documentary.
Sorry mate but they prove it by re-creating the same phenomenon that they witness in the lab. That has always been the winner in science and will always bee the winner in science.
I agree. I can't believe these guys call themselves cosmology experts. They don't even have the correct language to explain what they are saying. Gravity is NOT always a weak force depending of the source of where the energy is coming from. The spin and distance dictate the force of the field. Gravity could be said to be the same thing as electric field.. It's just a matter of a variety in shapes in the observable force field.
Gravity is incredibly weak compared to electromagnetic force! A small toy magnet can overcome the effect of the entire mass of Earth acting on a pin.
This doc is a cool one to watch for a second time or a third.
Afterwards i watched The myths of Science conference by Chuck Missler on youtube. Although he brings forth ideas about the bible (2 or 3 times) which may not be in line with most people interested in science, i thought his conference was very interesting in explaining the ways of science. Give it a try for 30 minutes , you may be tempted to watch the rest.
az
...and when it comes down to brass tacks, nobody "really knows" what the universe is made of. Except Frank Zappa, Frank knew.
Beware of yellow snowballs. They accumulate negative charge as they accelerate through the cream cheese-ether.
BTW. That was @ jcgrant... 7 down.
what a scam, smells like moneymaking to me
Super nice photos & electronic animations!
At one time, one of the scientist in there said that creating a small lab bench plasma has been done a little while back and that its morphological behavior was the same as one that can see viewed in outer space!
Isn't that fantastic? I spent the rest of docu waiting to see that.
You know what? They never shown it.
Next one...
Pierre.
actually belizean i think its 97% of the universes mass is considered to be dark mater while the other 2.999987% is mass found in stars and the rest being rocky planets such as earth, those numbers are from a few of the episodes of the universe serious. I have a little.. more trust in that over wikipedia..
Wikipedia was talking about ordinary matter, i.e. the stuff that is NOT dark matter or energy. By far the majority of that matter is located in stars and thus in the plasma state. Your numbers say the exact same thing.
Sunspots are not dark. Alone, they would blind you. They appear dark compared with the rest of the star.
Also, we cannot duplicate the solar fusion process in the lab, because we lack the pressures found in the core of the sun.
This sounds like religion to me, invoking ancient myths as fact, and all.
I don't understand the correlation between our lack of knowledge of the pressures found in the core of the sun and your statement that this sounds as a religion. The latter is just a theory. Given that the currently accepted one has not been verified experimentally (as we lack knowledge of the pressures in the sun's core, you yourself admit), why is this a worse theory than what we currently think is correct? Do you have any other, more scientific data, that would support your statement?
Forget the myth stuff, it is just a nice little coincidence that says the ancients saw some strange things. So what. Of course the sun spots would blind us. So would the sun!!!! But if it is a nuclear reactor the sun spots should be brighter, as it is like a little hole into it's heart and it's heart should be brighter than it's skin. But it's not; and our imaging shows that it is not.
At around the 15 minute mark, they lose me, and they should lose everyone when its stated, "99.9% of the universe is made of plasma."
jcgrant wrote:
At around the 15 minute mark, they lose me, and they should lose everyone when its stated, "99.9% of the universe is made of plasma."
Reply:
Actually, that part I think is true. The reason is that most of the matter in the universe is found in stars, and stars are made of plasma. From the Wikipedia article on Plasma:
"In the universe, plasma is the most common state of matter for ordinary matter, most of which is in the rarefied intergalactic plasma (particularly intracluster medium) and in stars."
Whether it's really as much as 99.9%, I can't confirm, but I think I've heard something like that elsewhere too.
Well since around 25% of the univers is dark matter ( = gravity without an explanation) and another 70% is dark energy, it would be a pretty bold statement to call 99.9% plasma.
Obviously. But if you guys would just read my quote it says plasma is the most common state of matter for ORDINARY MATTER, which does NOT include dark matter and dark energy. So nobody's claiming that all that stuff is plasma too. Hope that was clearer :)
...note that the narrator said,"...visible universe". I don't know if this is makes the statement 'truthier', but that's how it was actually said.
OK quick question to anybody....The current understanding says that stars are nuc. and the fusion of hydrogen into other elements happens there....So if these guys were right how do they explain that portion....also what if a nuc, fusion reaction just happens to be an electric dynamo????? There is alot of movement of atoms in there...lots of friction lots of static elec..??? even the core of earth prod. mag. field so this dosent just answer everything...Maybe some of it needs to be factored in but I dont think it is a stand alone theory...
It takes a few viewings to grasp this film
No thank. It ain't my cup of tea.
Pierre.
These guys remind me of the Expanding Earth crowd.
how do they remind you of the big bangers?
pardon me i misread you. How do they remind you of the expanding earth crowd?
absolutely facilitation
What? That means nothing.
Ok, so how in the world do they explain the rotations in the solar system, with this electric crap they call science again? ?
How does ''Magnetic Field'' explain, the orbit of the different planets and any other body in just our solar system ? If they can explain? ''only'' that, nothing else, with accurate science, then I could maybe start to pay attention to all this nonsense.
How on earth can Einstein's General Relativity, theory completely base on gravity, describe with unimaginable accuracy the orbit of every single body in our solar system, if gravity was not the cause of that body's orbit and movement ?
Do they really think it's perhaps some sort of coincidence ? I mean? how damn naive can this get? ??!
If you want to question Don Scott or wallace thornhill search the links in thunderboltsinfo. Or holoscience site its posted afterthe film or google around once or twice if you are not afraid of loosing old beliefs. Men eventually stumble up the truth but carry on as if nothing happened W. Churchil
I am not an Astrophysicist, but my best friend at the University is. I forced myself to watch the whole thing, despite it having more holes than Lorraine Swiss cheese in the first 5 minutes. I am going to force him to watch it, so I can register his disgust on video. Don't hit me with that being stuck in the "Standard Model" thing either...They don't have a model. At best they have an assertion, and a very uninformed one at that. Once someone starts tying Immanuel Velikovsky into their conversation, let alone their science, as more than a joke, they lose all 100% of that thing called credibility, and become part of the tinhat end of the spectrum.
Where are their papers, reviewing their experimental proofs to be submitted for peer review, and verified independent experimental proofs to back this up? Where are the letter submitted to Scientific Journals with their new discovery? Why don't they have this? Because this isn't even pseudo-science. This is a "yeah that sounds about right" approach to Astrophysics. One, out of all of them had Physicist as his title. Another was an electrical engineer...wrong again Bob, nowhere near his field. The maths aren't even the same, and for a good reason. They don't have anything to do with each other anymore than being a dentist and a veterinarian. The main guy's first listed occupation was Mythologist. That about sums it up,all that was missing was a plumber and a psychic.
This hits top documentary just after a huge discovery was made about Dark matter just this last week. Pretty hilarious timing.
Seriously, please listen to Feynman, Gell-Mann and/or Leonard Suskind's lectures. They are in entirety on YouTube, and in short order you will see how ridiculous this is. Physics equations have to be accurate to 6 decimal points. Nowhere else in science or anything else is that accuracy required. That is a seemingly ridiculous requirement, but that is what it takes to cut the physics mustard. Where was just one equation from these guys? To me they seemed long on critique of other theories, but very shy on proofs of their own. I could make a video with a bunch of crackpots, with a half assed, discovery channel knowledge of things, and produce a hack theory that would seem plausible to a given amount of people, but why?
Good Lord, is Ron going to laugh, and be really upset that this is being accepted by anyone.
I tell ya what. When these guys win the Nobel Prize, have an Element named after them, or even appear on CNN, or the cover of Scientific American for their amazing discovery of the Universal Theory of Everything, which flies in the face of years of proven science. Laws as well as very fleshed out theories. When that day comes, call me, and I will eat my hat on YouTube, but I feel confident I do not need to leave my number.
I wish i could say it was enjoyable just for cheese value, but science is far too important for total hacks to sound formal enough in their near-alchemical understanding, to convince a fair amount of people that they know what they're even talking about. At the very least, rent Cosmos and watch it....these guys made at least 20 statements that are demonstrably wrong. They probably actually believe this, much as the fake moon mission guys, but conviction doesn't make you right. Years and years of dull work, hoping for one big Eureka moment is how science is advanced. Its painfully dull at times, but the moments of discovery make up for all the drudgery. These guys in the video didn't submit their ideas to such a rigorous inquiry, they decided they were correct, case closed. A good scientist is a skeptic, most especially of his/her own work.
who's to say anyone is correct about anything. the fact that we think, is enough reason for anything to be thought-up. not to mention, you seem very well convicted to your position.
Your "belief" is strong. Too bad we aren't talking about religion here. Electric fields and magnetic fields are intertwined. You tried to point out that their logic is flawed because one can exist without the other. That is true, as long as there is zero motion. If the electric charge moves, it creates a magnetic field, and vice versa. In none of the instances this addresses are the charges/fields stationary. So, permanent magnets and capacitors need not be addressed in conjunction with this.
Einstein did say that he was not satisfied with his theory. He said that it did not explain everything properly. It was everyone else that started taking it as fact. This currently proposed theory isn't even addressing the quantum level. It is addressing the stellar, interstellar, intergalactic, and interuniversal levels.
In essence, this new theory based on electro-magnetism would be very easy to dismiss if it didn't perfectly explain, with predictable evidence, repeatedly all the workings that the current, widely accepted model fails to explain. You can either choose to believe in your "religion" of the current universal model, or rejoin the scientific community and look at the evidence to make your conclusions. The current model fails too severely in too many ways. If you supplement what we currently have with this new information, suddenly, everything is working as expected and we no longer have to use magic and create new mysterious forces/substances to patch the holes in the theory.
Of all the theories I have seen and delved into, this makes the most sense of the how and why about everything so far to date. Einstein always said he was missing something but never could pin point what it was. Looks like Tesla's concepts applied to interstellar interactions too. People seem to keep forgetting that ALL of the natural forces apply in EVERY situation. This does not dismiss any of the gravitational effects, What it does it is put electro-magnetism back in its proper place alongside of gravity. Too bad everyone always thinks on such a limited scale. We probably cold have figured this out a long time ago if it wasn't for that.
Wait a second. I can pull a ball bearing off of a magnet, that means I'm stronger than magnetism and gravity combined, therefore I must have created the universe. For all the people here stating that this is a good documentary I have one question. Atlantis, true or false?
i think you're missing the point entirely..
Me too, apparently. Its hard to believe this isn't a mocumentary.
This is a great documentary. I have watched at least 6 times now. It radically changes the current gravity based view of the standard universe theory to the electro-magnetic model which makes much more sense.
Tesla discovered his research that eletro-magnetic energy surrounded the earth and filled the vacuum of space. Electricity in its form was gaseous (his words) which today might be explained better as plasma.
From the current observations of uniformly spinning galaxies, to a better understanding of pulsar stars, to how are sun might actually be working an electro-magnetic universe makes infinitely more sense.
I look forward to more scientific research along the lines of the electro-magnetic universe as the the building blocks of all matter is electro-magnetism.
Thank you for adding this great documentary!
Arnold Vinette
Ottawa, Canada
Not familiar with this theory. I will have to check into it some more. The electrified particle theory between galaxies sure makes a lot more sense than dark matter and dark energy and it more readily explains why everything isn’t clumped together; look how a magnet organizes iron filings into patterns… Im still processing this information, very interesting. Another good document!
Martin, thanks much for the references.
I only hold a BA in math, and only minored in physics, and I know nothing about electrical engineering, so I lack the wherewithal to comment on the efficacy of the rather vague ideas put forth in this documentary. I do know, however, that gravity can be completely ignored in calculations involving problems dealing primarily with electromagnetism.
If a galaxy were viewed as a rotating disk of plasma sweeping along normal matter within the dynamics of its rotation, then the need to postulate dark energy and dark matter would fall by the wayside. This, alone, leads me to be interested in just what it is these guys might be, sort of, kind of, maybe, trying to say.
That's what's wrong with this doc: that these men are actually even presenting an hypothesis must itself be viewed as an hypothesis! And that's a pity, because ANYTHING that gets rid of 'dark-stuff' is worth a look at.
Anybody here know where one might turn to find out exactly what it is these men might be trying to say?
They are very close to the understanding of it all. You always have to be careful of eliminating any of the natural forces. The currently accepted model essentially forgets about all but gravity. That is why Einstein wasn't satisfied with the explanation of it. With all the information he had at hand, he overlooked the other forces.
yes im the one who suggested this film. Heres a start. ive watched it several times. Oh try cosmology quest and see how this so called scientists treat their peers who have disagreed with gravitational theory
Current theories about the nature of stars like our sun are inconsistent with several observations and it has therefore been long known that they aren't complete. They have, however, represented the best match with experiments and therefore been our best working model.
This article simply notes that recent evidence supports a different model (completely unrelated to the thunderbolts theory). This happens all the time and is the strength of the scientific process.
If at all related to the documentary above, it goes to show that the current consensus is by no means protected as dogma and that accepted paradigms can change ... provided that they offer a better explanation of empirical evidence.
The Freeman
'I notice more than one erroneous statement on this video. The statement was made that “only an electric current produces an electromagnetic field.”. This is demonstrably false, as both a flow of water (a fluid) in a pipe and a flow of air (a fluid) in a duct, can produce a measurable EMF. An electric current can be picked up from this flow by wrapping a conductor around the conduit.'
Electric current is defined as the rate at which charge flows through a surface. In your example isn't the charge already flowing before you wrap the conductor around the conduit? Your use of the term "picked up" itself implies the current is either detected or induced from it's existing flow.
Not saying there weren't erroneous statements made. I just think this wasn't one of them.
damon yerg,
well done! Lucky me you don't charge for your lectures. I think I followed your exposition, despite dizzy spells.
My take is that 'the Universe' is unitary, which rules out the existence of a supplementary, external, "I" or consciousness of same. The unity subsumes all, finis.
But we can accept a universe as a continuum of existence, of some kind? If consciousness/knowledge necessarily arise (not a bizarre accident), equally, subjective & objective are necessary phases of that, giving knowledge/consciousness of an incomplete but expanding nature.
Yet how else? Perfect knowledge implies the stasis of completion, which cannot exist, if the universe as existence is a continuum.
Of course, all that falls if knowledge can be a state outside space-time. Over to you, quantum mechanics, or Vatican, I'm dizzy again. OGT
I surely don't claim to be an expert OGT but I think the Strong Anthropic Principle (SAP) is more in the realms of philosophy than cosmology (though I concede the 2 disciplines are inextricably linked).
There are 2 main versions of SAP floating around. One by Carter "the Universe (and hence the fundamental parameters on which it depends) must be such as to admit the creation of observers within it at some stage. To paraphrase Descartes, cogito ergo mundus talis est."
The Latin tag ("I think, therefore the world is such [as it is]") makes it clear that "must" indicates a deduction from the fact of our existence; the statement is thus a truism, i.e. self-evident.
The other version is from Barrow and Tipler "The Universe must have those properties which allow life to develop within it at some stage in its history."
This looks very similar to Carter's SAP, but unlike the case with Carter's SAP, the "must" is an imperative, as shown by the following three possible elaborations of the SAP, each proposed by Barrow and Tipler:
(1) "There exists one possible Universe 'designed' with the goal of generating and sustaining 'observers.'"
This can be seen as simply the classic design argument restated in the garb of contemporary cosmology. It implies that the purpose of the universe is to give rise to intelligent life, with the laws of nature and their fundamental physical constants set to ensure that life as we know it will emerge and evolve.
(2) "Observers are necessary to bring the Universe into being."
Barrow and Tipler believe that this is a valid conclusion from quantum mechanics, as John Archibald Wheeler has suggested, especially via his participatory universe and Participatory Anthropic Principle (PAP). However, the argument leads to a chicken-and-egg problem, for those observers must exist in some universe of their own in order to act (unless the observer(s) is self-existent, which returns to the prior possibility)[citation needed].
(3) "An ensemble of other different universes is necessary for the existence of our Universe."
By contrast, Carter merely says that an ensemble of universes is necessary for the SAP to count as an explanation.
My own view is consistent with Carter's SAP: The laws of physics are indeed such as to allow life to exist, or I would not be here to write this. However it is not clear that we can deduce anything about our own significance, nor even the significance of life in general, from that. I'm a believer that if a tree falls in the forest it makes a noise, regardless whether anyone or anything is there to hear it or not.
So back to the Paul Davies interpretation vis a vis the "dismal possibility ....." Certainly sounds pessimistic and something Creationists might latch onto.
Let's consider how much we've already been able to nut out in the tiny fraction of a second (in the cosmological timeframe) we've been in existence as a species. And think of the great leaps forward we're making in terms of computing power and AI which will undoubtedly facilitate a greater understanding.
Maybe it's true we'll never know everything there is to know, but heck what a ride we have in front of us in the quest to get there!
Some very good comments above; thanks chaps. Me, I'm as impartial as only the physics-ignorant can be.
Correct me if wrong, but from memory, I think it was Paul Davies who wrote about the 'strong anthropic principle'. This was the dismal possibility that we can never u/stand the universe fully. Our brains/minds are too intimately involved with it to allow an outside, objective perspective.
If so, there will always be "something missing" from our theories. What the experts think? OGT
Much of the mythology references draw rather a long bow. Might not local lightning account for much of this? Venus and comets yeh, but hardly likely the ancients were able to see cosmic nebulae etc. It is an interesting theory and one likely to add to our knowledge of the workings and origins of the universe. I have to admit more appealing than The Big Bang, Black Holes and Pulsars spinning 300 times per second. I'd like to hear Stephen Hawkings response to "You can't pack neutrons tightly together....."
Hogwash.
Although I admit the concept was interesting at first, having repeatedly heard false statements in the video made me turn my head.
The first and major-est one would be that only electrical current creates electro magnetic fields.
Any sort of movement could create an electro magnetic field (basically static electricity) and as we know permanent magnets also exist. Those might have been shaped at first by electric current (a possibility, one of many of a creation of a permanent magnet since the ways are numerous) the magnet itself does not derive its magnetic field from electric current.
The one that bugged me more however was about how Stephen Hawking claimed that another variety of black holes can exist, a kind that spews matter only because we've observed matter spewing.
This is enraging since its a discarding of all scientific fact known to us today.
Black holes can easily account for the phenomena of spewing matter since black holes, combined with large amounts of matter surrounding it, would create a great deal of motion in that matter which would translate into powerful electro magnetic fields that would shoot out jets of charged matter out of the polarities of the spin around the black hole.
And the second "black hole" that Hawking supposedly proposed is in fact a White hole, and is a theoretical stellar body which spews matter that a black hole at another point in space swallows. It is in no way proposed to become a convincing explanation the such phenomena as seen in the centers of certain galaxies (quasars) which spew matter in the mentioned way, but rather a suggestion of an idea. Regular black holes can account to that, being a combination of both the laws of gravity and electro magnetism.
Einstein never said he isn't happy with his theory, the theory of relativity (both the first and second) were groundbreaking in the way they allowed us to perceive the universe. They were nearly flawless and hit the spot dead on in every possible scenario so far. Even todays science, our modern progressive and highly evolved physics rely on the theory of relativity because of its accuracy.
Einsteins theory didn't connect with quantum physics because it focused on gravity and electromagnetic forces, while the Quantum theory opened up a whole new world in which these forces are no longer valid, they just aren't enough to dominate the subatomic world.
In short this documentary is hogwash, and these scientists are hogwash.
They may present an interesting idea but to validate it they "forget" details about the real world.
To believe this one must do away with everything we know about "hydrodynamics & magnetohydrodynamics, thermodynamics, gravitation, nuclear physics, statistical physics, and electromagnetism." This is a statement made on the above web site recommended by IS. I will not make fun of those that want to believe this as I know most people do not understand physics and cling to the intuitive, which serves them well in the world they live in. And there is nothing wrong with that at all, I have worked construction and farmed most of my life and intuition served me well. But, scientists (particularly physicists) must be ready to let go of the intuitive if the data requires it, its called imagination and creativity. Two words most would say do not belong in science, but on the contrary they are essential to science. Without them we would know nothing of the universe we live in. Now don't take that the wrong way, we do not just create things or imagine the way things are and call that fact. Instead we use imagination and creativity to see what might be, then we design eperiments to see if we are right. If the experiments prove what you hypothesized then it is accepted, if not it is rejected.Of course I have not yet made it to hypothesizing yet, I merely learn what has already been hypothesized and then proven.
Like it or not the standard models make excellent predictions and explain much of what seems unexplainable. As a physics major I have often gone to my professor and said, "How can this be?" His reply is usually, "You will get it when you learn more, right now just accept it and build the foundation you will need to support future knowledge." He is invariably right, later down the road I see exactly why that unituitive thing was correct. Sometimes he says, "We don't know how that is what it is, it just is." And he is right then as well, we have the data to prove things like light is a wave and a particle and so are electrons. No one knows how that can possibly be, but it clearly is. You can not come to any other conclusion once you see for yourself that light shined through 2 slits causes a wave interference pattern. But, light shined on a piece of silicon acts like a particle and knocks electrons loose, its called the photo electric effect and explains solar power. To me it is what makes physics so interesting, otherwise it would be all intuitive and boring.
Someone should keep Hubble images away from these retards.
martin, thank you for your down to earth view and I take your points. I dont claim to understand it all. It just makes sense to me. And I think there is absolute value in what we as humans continue to discover. I dont need to put the primitives on a pedestal but I do think by virtue of their connection with nature that they on average had a intimate understanding of it, compared with the modern man who lives with technology without knowing even how it works. I have seen some amazing unexplainable phenomenon and I understand that as humans we put a face or symbol on our experiences to give us a more tangible comprehension of it. Angels and dragon dont exist as we portray them but there are electromagnetic forces out there which are perhaps even more dynamic, powerful, intelligent then we could ever imagine.
I am very happy to be alive now and continue to enjoy the unfolding discoveries!
Great you enjoyed it, freelove, and if you want to add this to your world view of crystals and spirituality then that's fine. But don't confuse it with "making total sense" or scholarship.
While those of deep faith in an organised religion won't be tempted by this, those with a similar need to believe will be. The contents of this theory appeal to those looking for a mythology to fill their lives; whether it be one or more gods, dragons or electricity (though preferably a combination of these).
The only ones that don't see the point in this are the highly rational.
As for ancient cultures, if you start out thinking that those which sprang up thousands of years ago, for example in Mesopotamia and China, were primitive then, yes, they will appear advanced once you start reading about them. But don't let that shock coupled with your new-age-romanticism trick you into thinking that they surpassed ours. Engineering, science and philosophy have all evolved greatly since then.
You may prefer the world view that you imagine upon these ancient societies, but I assure that our modern society has a far better objective understanding of the world.
"From the Heliconian Muses let us begin to sing, who hold the great and holy mount of Helicon, and dance on soft feet about the deep-blue spring and the altar of the almighty son of Cronos, and...."
Oh, wait, this film isn't about Zeus at all!
Wow, that's like, totally tedious. All aboard the hippy-trippy to Venus. Light toke paper, & away!
Scientists may occasionally be reptilian Dr Strangeloves, but they do manage to stay in touch with realities. OGT
fantastic. ties everything together and makes total sense. I have always revered electricity. God is electric!
In order to understand the greater forces we have made symbols and archetypes in our own image. electrical waves create feather like waves...angels. We see ancient culture as primitive but they understood the world far better than us. I enjoyed this documentary very much. To me it links in with electromagnetic fields and the unusual phenomenon they create. I have experienced paranormal phenomenon and i can recognise by the waves and pulses of these experiences that they were electrical in nature. I am reverent of electricity, the sun, the stars and dragons. And I am certain that seemingly fluffy headed hippies (like me) are in total agreement with these scholars as well as your average educated person. It is only the highly religious who may not see the point in this.
Conspiracy or not, it's a non-player in astro-physics and there are too many factual inaccuracies in this documentary to explain anything.
The link that "is" provided is interesting and useful. The websites connected to the material published in relation to this theory are not.
is,
the video explains a radical theory set. It is not about a conspiracy. Your ad hominem remarks are also invalid. Eg., it is equally nice to stay in the theoretical mainstream, lick boots, get tenure, & win a good pension. OGT
I'm not really sure where to begin on this documentary. While there are many gaps in our current understanding (notably the coronal heating and solar wind acceleration, which the Solar Probe Plus is set to explore) the case for this thunderbolts theory seems poorly argued.
The cultural references are highly suspect and seem to have many obvious alternative reasons and the science is simplistic at best and inaccurate at worst. As an example, the gravitational interaction is not "infinitely weak" though it is much weaker than the electromagnetic interaction. It is, however, further reaching since charged particles with their dual charges shield electric fields but gravitational fields only add up.
Furthermore, talk of measuring charges or currents with radio telescopes is odd since static charges or currents don't produce any electromagnetic waves. Similarly, their hypothesis for pulsars is rather more fantastical than the well supported theoretical model of standard cosmology of which their criticism seemed awfully uninformed.
I'm certainly not one to say that we've got all the answers or that current paradigms may not get cast aside, but just about any argument they make is flawed in some way. It's good to have a large variety of ideas floating around (many theories have eventually been proved right and benefited from the persistence of their advocates -- though many more have been rejected) but the stuff in here doesn't seem to offer much if anything over existing paradigms.
Interessting theory but I don't understand why Gravity and Elektromagnetism should exclude each other (I don't mean mathematically but both being highly influential forces on the grand scale of the universe). I'll have to do some research on the topic. The doc itself had some fishy parts and was pretty overdramaticed which is unfortunate because it really damaged its credibillity from my point of view. What was troubling me especially was the list of unexplained phenomena of fusion theory. With some I was pretty sure that there are well established explanations wihtin fusion theory e.g. the varying size of the sun or the origin of heavier elements. But not being a physicist I could simply have misunderstood so please correct me if I got it wrong.
@ gto
I beg to differ concerning Edison. He was not the great discoverer that he is made to be but actually the brand name for the research and inventions of around 15 other inventors he had hired. He should be really admired for his great marketing skills which where indeed ahead of his time.
i thought electromagnetism is already part of the formulas since everything is charge even us.
its sad that we leave in the electromagnetic age but its are most least praise achievement(electromagnetism has always been are number 1 energy tool that we use).
thomas edison and nickol tesla should be are number 1 science discoverers not newton or einstein. cause their the one who build this future.
I'm afraid I cannot comment on this video as (being a little hard of hearing) the background music was so loud that I could not fully understand the speech, but as the producers felt that they needed to dramatise this documentory in this way, I could not take take there theory too seriously.
The arguments the church made against the idea the solar system revolving around sun forced the church to jail the man who knew better, and for the rest of his life. Then proven correct by others astronamors. The church abandons any idea to new understandings.They for some reason still do now alow new modern understandings in mankinds scientific progress. To retain the belief of the ancients who wrote the rules in the years of slavery and controlling dictators and illogical rulers demanding control of society. Which creates followers of a bazzar illogical belief in the non-existing invented God who brings you hell.
The arguments the church made against the idea the solar system revolved around earth only, so the unknowing church jailed the man who knew better, and imprisoned him for the rest of his life. Then proven correct by others astronomers. The church abandons any idea of new modern understandings and avoid any scientific approach. So by this intended approach man is kept within the grasp of biblical slavery. Ancients wrote these rules in the years of slavery and with the extreme need to control. Dictators and illogical rulers control society and create slaves to obey them, and only them, through fear of an invisable place called hell. Which creates followers of this bazaar illogical belief in the non-existing invented ancient God, who brings you his hell. How really silly is that? Not much as changed our involvement with ancient bible which is not needed in our advancing into a new culture and freedom. Since the bible restricts any human advancements into man future, why do so many follow the illogical passage way restricting humankind to advance? Doesn't mankind know by now -that God and Hell are working together as one? The holy bible aims man into a path of self destruction because the Vail of evils are hidden behind God's plan you know nothing of.
This is one of the most important documentaries on this website. Plasma Universe theory is in my opinion a so much needed revolution in our understanding of the Universe and of the way we should accept the new theories in science altogether.
Kurrrt,
yes, Fort is a powerful check on contemporary scientism. 'Science' is pictured a a capitalist production line. Each slave-researcher adds a nut or bolt of knowledge. Except, no-one knows what the end product is, or what drives the belt-line. OGT
Perhaps this Universe is a one massive hologram with life inside, with space within space and place within solid place. Other Universe's are other holograms with life also within it's inner sections. Which also allows the advanced alien/human life forms that seeds, to continue to seed. That we sometimes witness from time to time.
This particular planet aged to allow and harbor enormous amounts of select life, is the grandest gene pool around for advanced life forms like alien/humankind etc., to select their fair share of what seeds of their choosing. Which continues the flow of lifeforms. They are strategically allowed to enter or leave this existence. Laws of the Universe are applied and strictly understood and enforced by these advanced alien/human life forms. Some of them are perhaps our forefathers.
When human life dies on this planet, human spirit enters into this hologram of their next non-physical existence, and cannot comprehend the physical world anymore, like most of all humanity cannot comprehend theirs.
Einstein correct about the sun? Our sun shares with another solar system within this one, in a restricting frequency density which you do not see, and never will physicly be able to. This brings reason to stars directly behind the sun and are openly viewed next to it.
Whales and dolphins are as alien to this planet as you are. And those were put here in earths early on oceans. And bring frequency's to the life of any living planet with an ocean, which brings harmony(whales) and energy(dolphins)to a percise balance to aid and continue other life within as one planet becomes alive.
Not understood by so called modern man, because belief systems such as for instance various religions beinng #1, which restricts many forms of new understandings and entering into mankinds new and next culture. It's done for reasons of only those darker forces within humanity, then power structures.
If your glass is overfilling with knowing illogical ideals, it must be completely emptied before new understandings can take place. Darker forces realize this and constantly makes great effort to keep your glass full and overfilling at all times. But I'm not an expert, just sharing pure thought. Open your eyes to a new great day, everyday.
At the end of the last paragraph in my last comment, which read : "I guess for now, it doesn’t matter where the aetheric electricity came from, (some form of re-CURRENT Big Bangs or pony tails ???) but rather what can we do with the electromechanical understanding of the observed present universe & the obvious direction of our future universe, in order to replicate the machinery here on earth as it is in heaven !"
I should add : {... in order to save ourselves from our peaking energy economic problems & environmental mess }
This is the real benefit of this new Thunderbolts science. This truth will set us free!!!
Could it be that the moral character & false pride of the
scientists who assumed positions as priests, blinded them so that they could not understand & therefore created a pretentious lie that over time grew to be so obviously ridiculous, & that now many unfairly, covertly & unscientifically continue to spin their perspectives in order to save their jobs ??? They have the same spirit of the guys who supported the Pope to execute Galileo.
I guess for now, it doesn't matter where the aetheric electricity came from, (some form of re-CURRENT Big Bangs or pony tails ???) but rather what can we do with the electromechanical understanding of the observed present universe & the obvious direction of our future universe, in order to replicate the machinery here on earth as it is in heaven !
though I was initially put off by the mythology aspect, I think I've just witnessed the next movement in cosmological thought. Ground-breaking, and left me with new found wonder.
What other assumptions do we hold that might prove as frail as a nuclear-fusion based Sun?
Thanks to "The Freeman" too for pointing out the pink elephant.
Wouldn't it be great if we could understand the engines of the universe, so that we could build replicas to power our homes, transportation & industry ? YES WE Can !!!
oops...should proofread before i post..The. Now I stand self corrected!
E-lec-tricity huh?
Brings to mind what George Washington Duke said while being interviewed. There are 3 things that I don't understand or profess to. Tha 1st is the Holy Ghost,the 2nd is Electricity
and the 3rd is my son "Buck" aka James Buchanan Duke. Interesting doc though. Lot of speculation with the mythology twist but such things are our nature. @ Achems Razor...I knew there was a method to your madness and I would never try to correct you on your handle for by your posts you seem extremely intelligent and insightful.
A kick up the black hole for whoever dubbed in all those crass background noises. Planet? Cue rumbling noises. Collision? Cue explosions & cymbals. Empty space? Cue the distant trumpets.
If only vids were as silent as space. O/wise, v/interesting. OGT
This doc. reminds me that I know squat about electricity or magnetism. i got some reading to do.
The mythology is quite a stretch for me. A thought provoking theory nonetheless.
CMB looks like it refutes it Scott. Maybe the background radiation is caused by our own atmosphere? Who knows.
Good documentary!
There has been no explanation for Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation in the Plasma Cosmology.
God's peace all;
I notice more than one erroneous statement on this video. The statement was made that "only an electric current produces an electromagnetic field.". This is demonstrably false, as both a flow of water (a fluid) in a pipe and a flow of air (a fluid) in a duct, can produce a measurable EMF. An electric current can be picked up from this flow by wrapping a conductor around the conduit. The theories espoused are failing to account for the "flow" of LIGHT ... treating light as a consequence of the observation instead of recognizing it as the cause of the observation ... a flawed presumption compounding an erroneous assumption. The electromagnetic phenomena are the result of the actions of the light ... the light precedes the energy consequences, the material is drawn (or repelled ) by it's electromagnetic properties.
There is much to be learned from the observations, but there is also much room for misinterpretation of cause and effect in these new "fields" of study.
Just my $0.02
TheFreeman
"I am a moderate science enthusiast. I watched 20 minutes of this and was completely bored and uninterested in what they were talking about. Wouldn’t recommend unless you are really into this subject."
So it seems you're the type that likes to keep believing the official stories of things, even if they are false, and keep your head in the sand. It's sad that so many are like this.
This is not a documentary to be viewed for entertainment or "if you are into this stuff". Sure, many people may find it interesting to watch, but this is groundbreaking truth that needs to come out.
Just like previous major scientific discoveries, it is important that the evidence and truth comes out. It's not something to be wishy washy about, like "I'll believe in gravity when I feel like it." It can help us solve problems and make new discoveries and advances for future technology and understanding.
It explains the very pretty colors in space (LOL). Like every thing else, i'll take some and leave some.
I would say that Space, Stars, Planets, our Planet of course are all Negative Energy, so this could be why they do not collide among themselves, even when sucked in by Black Holes they do not collide when in the whirling funnel shape thing. As you can see i use very scientific words LOLOOLOL. The Positive Energy i believe is at the exact instant of the Thunderbolt, Light, Glow, i mean i don't see any Pull or Push in our Space. Movement caused be Atomic or Nuclear Energy yes, but not Electric Energy. Do we have an Electromagnetic Field around our Planet ? Could Instant Combustion be produced by Electric Energy ?
@ Achem Razor, i will not go for those Condoms you believe we exist in, as believed in the String Theory LOLOOOLOOOOOL.
very interesting. although there is still much to be explained, this makes a lot more sense than the big bang theory.
I am a moderate science enthusiast. I watched 20 minutes of this and was completely bored and uninterested in what they were talking about. Wouldn't recommend unless you are really into this subject.
TRUE!! Electromagnetic fields permeate the Universe! The Human Body runs off Bio electricity. The Earth is a giant Magnet. Light is an electromagnetic phenomenon, both a wave and a particle. In terms of Quantum Mechanics, electricity and light are the same.
Everything in existence is EM (Electro Magentic)in nature. Brain is a tool to interpret EM signal. So it should be ElectroMagnetic Cosmology not just electric cosmology. Very good and recomended to watch.
Bryan
Dave: Occam's Razor is a medieval philosophical principle based on Aristotle also called the principle of parsimony. it basically states that all things being equal, the simplest solution is often the right one. I am using Achems Razor because I happen to like Kenneth Thomas "Achem Razor Videos" on You Tube. Now go waste somebody else's time!
It's "Occam's" razor, not achem. Thank you. :-)
Great doc...!They still do not know by definition, what "Exactly" Electricity is, what Light is, what Dark Matter is, Nor what the Singularity was before the Big Bang. What I picked up from this doc... Electricity is formed from Plasma. Electrons moving in the direction of charged equalization forming an Electric current producing pervasive magnetic fields that have twisted narrow paths that go to all regions of space. The Universe is a big generator. Our Sun is receiving positive electrical energy much like a Capacitor. RE: Suns Corona. And since Earth is negative, causes current to flow. There are other dimensions, and according to Quantum Physics 10 to the 500 power of alternate Universes. What parameters will they use in the future? Only time will tell..! According to String Theory our Universe is like a undulating Membrane closely separated from other Universes. When the Membranes touch..( My analogy, shorting a wire producing a electric spark) Creates a Big Bang, another Universe. My own extrapolation is, this may be happening incomprehensibly fast, but stepped down by our thoughts, much like a Transformer steps down voltage. Einstein said time is an illusion. Time is movement.
Wow. This really blew my mind. At first I was skeptical, but it really ties together a lot of natural phenomena. This is a must-see for anyone who's interested in astronomy or cosmology.
I'm also a little upset with myself that I managed to ignore electricity as something fundamental. The only question it doesn't seem to answer is where exactly this electricity is coming from.
I really like this one. Great theory, is it true? Only time will tell, it does seem to make perfect sense though.
It's funny I was watching a Nova piece on dark matter just the other night and I was just thinking to myself this is poppycock. It just didn't add up. I have for a long time had problems with things like Black Holes and string theory. There seemed to be something flawed with it. I thought for a long time that this was due to me not being able to comprehend the advanced math that the theory entailed. I was in fact missing the point that was made in the presentation, Relativity acounts only for gravity.It brought it all together so that it made some kind of sense for me.
(I'm actually a little upset with myself for not putting it together for myself!)