Secrets of the Koran
The Koran is one of the most important works ever written. For almost one billion people worldwide, it is the Holy Scripture, the word of God and his prophet.
For others, it is a historical artifact that has left an indelible imprint on the world. Decoding the Past: Secrets of the Koran probes the heart of the work that many outside Islam find mysterious.
This feature-length program examines the history of the verses and their implications for modern times, as well as the striking similarities and differences between the Koran and the Bible.
Trace the influence of the Koran from the Golden Age of Islam to the modern rise of jihadism, and hear from top Islamic scholars and holy men as they share their insights into the work that lies at the foundation of one of the world’s great religions.
The History Channel provides the perfect guide to understanding the fundamental work that has shaped the Muslim faith for over 1,400 years, and will long continue to influence modern history.
The "documentary' is of poor quality. Worse, it is definitely biased in favor of Islam. Plus, any supposedly informative work on Islam that quotes Reza Aslan as an "expert' CANNOT be taken seriously. Aslan is merely a propagandist for Islam. He is certainly NOT a member of the ulema, nor is he a recognized authority on comparative religion.
The History Channel is usually better than this. Looks like, on the subject of Islam, they have opted to be politically correct rather than factual and objective.
if you want to see an interesting documentary on the topic, search "Islam The Untold Story ' presented by Tom Holland. you can see it on you tube.
stoning of adulterers is spelled out in Qur'an???? WHERE!
This documentary is full of wrong stuff and skips many stuff and it is very general i.e. it is not about Qur'an but about history which is based on many accounts that might be true or false.
Also, since when murderers are muslims? Just cause a certain axis of evil proclaims extremists as muslims does not mean that they are!
Most of the prophet came in middle east to teach them how to live and they still dont understand...if you betray the prophet of God how you will be HIS. Good folower same thing happen to all prophet even Mohammad next 500 years people i mean so called muslim killed all His family even his Daughter Fatima and her Two sond and did not gave Fatima which belong to her mother and father and given to her by prophet of God in writing..Muslim dont have any enemy its Munafiq muslims likeSaudies are Islams enemy...
If the Koran is about Peace then why do these people strap BOMBS on their children and send them to blow up and murder jews and others? Try answering this question that is factual and happens every day and will never end as long as religion breeds more fearful people.
Would you blow up your child to kill people you don't even know???
Its all bull and its Bad for you to indoctrinate your self and your children with this fear based bull. And on and on it goes, sadly.
I have never in my 20 years of living have ever met a muslim: man, woman, child ever say that's what islam tells people to do. Show me one quote by a scholar or even in the qu'ran that says to "strap bombs on your children". I understand your parents didn't raise you right and your favourite tv show is probably fox news, but please keep your nasty propaganda to your self.
That's right!
And...Islam is perfect, muslims are not...
Why does US bombs a country every year? Are you from texas? Get out of that box man.
Dude, muslims are the number one victims of bombings carried out by weapons and ideologies nurtured and protected by U KNOW WHO.
Terrorism
the share of Muslims in the global population is approximately 24 per cent; however, only about 10.3 per cent of all terrorist attacks since 1970 have been conducted by (supposedly) Islamist-motivated groups.
This share has increased recently but still remains well below 24 per cent. In addition, where a larger percentage of Muslim citizens exists in a given country, the tendency is for fewer terrorist attacks, if anything.
Put simply, if you encounter a Muslim anywhere in the world today, that person is less likely to be a terrorist than any person you might meet who is a non-Muslim. To claim that Islam is systematically related to increased terrorism is simply incorrect. It is also worth noting the majority of the victims of ‘Islamist terror’ are actually Muslims, casting further doubt on the supposedly religious motivations of terrorists.
Statistically there has been more terrorism from other religions or race groups compared to Islam
Consider other, non-Islamist terrorist groups and how they are viewed: nobody would blame Christianity as a whole for the Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA), which operates mostly in Uganda and has killed an estimated 100,000 people (the group’s brutal leader, Joseph Kony, aims to establish a theocratic state based on the Ten Commandments).
For example, so-called white nationalist groups have recently committed several acts of violence in the United States, in the process killing numerous innocent people. Of course, mass murderers like self-avowed white supremist Dylann Roof – who killed nine African Americans in a church in Charleston, South Carolina – are not representative of white Americans by any means.
Islam is a religion of peace. If anyone following Islam acts against the teachings or law of Islam does not mean the teachings are wrong. I urge you to do your own research, u will find terrorism in Islam makes up 3% whereas the rest is from other religions and or races.
All Religion breeds Separation and that sucks big time. Its bad enough that our government does it daily. Get over it, their is no god, its only a lie someone taught you to keep you in line and controlled. Nothing more than that. Their is no hell either except what has been created in your mind.
Islam is full of hatred, however i appreciate their sincerity in almost everything.
This film is very cognitive. I have a deep respect to the Muslim culture and Islamic religion and both of them trying to provide a peace and rapport between people. And Quran - really GREAT book with wise words. But, unfortunately, not everyone have abilities to understand verses in a right way, without distortion of holy words.
I totaly agree with you . the ability to understand verses in a right way is what make Quran beautiful but there is a lot of people including some muslums do not fully understand the great meaning of this holly book
I find it very interesting that so many Muslims become so upset if you "insult" their religion to the point where they will use this "insult" to justify a violent response to the insulter. If your god really was powerful enough to create this universe then he does not need our praise and respect. I do not believe in any of it and it enrages me that they are people who would want to hurt me because I believe that their religion is crap. I think that a truly mature person would be able to say, "well that's your loss, for rejecting the truth" and move on, It seems that in the present world muslim men cannot do that, instead they try to physically punish anyone, who "disrespects the prophet". A case in point was the publication of cartoons about mohammed that lead to property being destroyed and people being killed. It is this attitude of "if you don't show respect to my god I will kill you" that makes me despise all religions and have nothing but contempt for many modern day practitioners of islam
Jukker if you can give me an example of any other religion that is so staunch and steadfast in their beliefs and is so passionate in what they believe in please do show me. We do not call ourselves muslims for the sake of being born into a religion that we wudn't follow or abide to. When we call each other brothers and sisters in Islam, no matter what country a muslim may be in or whether we would ever meet that person or not, if tragedy strikes or war is upon us, i guarantee that somewhere in the world or better yet the rest of the world there are muslim's lifting their hands in prayer followed by a trail of tears. Our religion teaches us compassion to such a point that a Coptic Christian church was being protected by muslims in Egypt two weeks ago. The muslim men made a human chain in front of the church to prevent it being damaged during the massacre, there was no other men present not even christians (please do google it for reference). If we can't safe guard the word of god and the his sacred teachings, then who will ? In conclusion god is god, he's called by many different names and prayed to in many different ways. The distances and measures we would go to, to protect the word of god so that in later years our childrens children would have that same teachings and honourable upbringing to live a life of purity, generosity and so many other positive things. Why should we deprive them ?Driving them into sin and evil? So no there is no justification violence and killings that has been done by muslims or having a good enough reason to do it, in the end of it all anger cannot defeat anger. Yet i can't see reason as to why muslims would want to hurt you other then the fact that maybe you had committed a violent act to one of them on a personal level. We would not cause violent acts for a mere reason of not having to believe in our god or our religion, why should we when every human being has a right of opinion and choice, all we ask for is that little respect to not be vocal and criticise something you have no knowledge of , which your mimicng the hatred of what's being heard. Most recent disaster Syria after nearly 2 yrs 1 million refugees. Over 100000 civilians killed an now the dictator assad uses poison on kids. And still the world watches. Unlike IRAQ. LIBYA. Syria has no oil. How does bombing Syria becomes the right thing for the United States. This is what Barak Obama said at a press conference at the White House, a short while ago.
G20 summit next week is where Obama is now going to discuss the matter with world leaders. All in the interest of America, don't forget.
German Muslim scholar replies on TERRORISM ...I liked the answer of this German Muslim scholar when he was asked about terrorism and Islam :He said :Who started the first world war? not Muslims ?Who started the second world war ? not Muslims ?Who killed about 20 millions of Aborigines in Australia ? not Muslims ??Who sent the nuclear bombs of Hiroshima and Nagasaki ? not Muslims ??Who...
Today : 2 boys starve to death in cutoff town: Two children died Saturday in the suburbs of the Syrian capital . SNHR reported 466 children killed in #Syria in January 2013, an average of over 15 children per day:SO I ASK ?? Who is willing to be vocal for the kids that have died not even knowing what politics surrounded them at that time. Who is willing to criticize and be heard for kids who wrongfully played in the street while a war was happening ? Where was the web page which would slander or voice their opinions on the wrong that occur's. While we sit and criticize religion committing blasphemy , there's innocent women and children in the middle of a gun war initiated by men sitting behind their fancy desk, still having their fancy lunches and probably relaxing in their fancy baths with bubble bath, while a mother carries her three year old bloody wounded lifeless body to a place of safety. And you ask why muslim's get all worked up when we called terrorist and get accused for war and for forcing our religion which we refuse to merge with the “westonised” world. We refuse to believe the righteousness of killing innocent people would better the economy of a country. We will not pray to a government who continuously blind fold their people into believing that their acts of war is for the people and that muslims are the enemy. We live a life created by our god and live the life he has chosen for us and which is written for us 1400 years ago which will never alter or change. So they may strip us of our Islamic wear to satisfy them in believing that they closer to their "One World Order", but in actual fact you have to cut out our organs to achieve that. The love we have for our religion we would gladly close our eyes while they rip us apart. There's only one thing that life can guarantee and that is "every soul shall have a taste of death" So if you still confuse as to why muslims get so worked up? While the war in Syria is still happening as we debate on which religion is better then the other, muslims come together in all corners of the earth planning on how to get funds,medical assistance and food for those victims caught in a crossfire of "powerful men and their ego's". When the rich wage war its the poor who die. Tell me what does the rest of the world do at times other then watch the news in amazement for a few minutes and later go on with their lives? So before you call something that's godly "crap" walk a mile in a muslims shoes and redirect your anger at the creator's of this anarchy
I completely understand and appreciate your sentiment. I am a Muslim and I believe that Islam does not teach its practitioners to attack those who do not practice Islam. I believe everyone has the right to believe whatever they want to believe. The Quran itself, in one of the verses, says: "They have their faith and you have yours." That is it. Therefore, I think that when a large number of Muslims physically attack others for not being Muslim or for insulting Islam, it actually defeats the purpose of Islam itself (which literally means peace).
I was a hindu who became a muslim after many years of studying islam.the quran says THERE IS NO COMPULSION IN RELIGION, TRUTH STANDS OUT FROM FALSEHOOD.
I am in agreement with your comments but theseare attitudes expressed mainly by Ignorant or extreme muslims.you must remember that IF you are insulting the true God and his prophets there will be consequenses even if you are ignorant of this.
I can with certainty tell you that this is the true religion of the one GOD , but its up to you to search the evidence and accept the truth when ou see Iit.
Some of the ideas in this documentary are not accurate. The documentary argues that the verses of the Koran were learnt by heart and never set on paper. That's not accurate. The Koran was already recorded on paper during the time of its revealation, but it's the collection of these various texts and compiling them into one text that had to be done after the death of the prophet.
SERIOUSLY WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE??!! IF YOU CAME HERE TO BE A HATER ABOUT ISLAM THEN EXIT THIS WEB PAGE!! AND LEAVE!! IT'S SIMPLE.But if you came here sincerely to learn about Islam and most of all the most beautiful and pure Qur'an you can sure stay. Be at least respectful towards religions especially Islam my religion and I am proud! Okay? keep your hash and hateful comment to yourself. Some are just too blinded my hate and jealousy since Islam is the right religion and the fastest. SCORE!!!
But sadly this channel is not exactly right with the information especially the guy with the glasses so this is not a very reliable source to learn about Islam. :/
Naema, you're apparently filled with rage about the opinions of other people about your religion. They are just opinions, no better or worse than yours or mine, which I will spare you.
I'd like to know more about the information you mention being wrong, for that's the only really interesting part of your comment.
"Each person understanding of the scripture, is his own."
My ass.
Very spiritual comment and appears to be biblical too!!
Quran is trash. Is the word of ONE MAN, who said only he had a revelation of Allah and no one else in history has ever talk or listen to this so called god. In contrast the Bible was written by several men who have heard God or were writing the experience of someone that has heard God, or have witness an interaction with God; The Bible is the work of several men who had an experience with God and not just one man claiming to be the only one. These men, wrote also about the same things in their own style and they match, prohpecies in the Bible have been fulfilled and it talks about a God who became like us and died for his people in order to bring them back. That's love. Not a god who wants his people to die for them like the so called Allah. Allah talks about lying, beating, killing. The God of the Bible talks about love, grace, compassion, mercy, peace and understanding.
Hi, you don't have a minimum knowledge of The Qura'an. It is a perfect, flawless and correct book. You have to read it and understand it to realize the core of it. The Eenjil (The Bible) is also a holy book and was a collection of Creator's (God's) words. But after prophet Eesa (Jesus) has been picked up by the Creator the Bible has been rewritten by different writers and the words of the Creator have been changed gradually. Eesa (Jesus) will come back again in the earth at the eleventh hour of the Earth and he will lead the mankind according to The Quran and The Hadis.
Thanks. Wish your good luck.
is earth flat? are thr angels flying in air ? r thr magician beings granting u ur wish?
Muslims were the first people to say the earth is round... not sure what your talking about for the rest of your comment :/
You speak about The Qu'ran and The Bible with the authority of a scholar, but have very obviously not read either in their entirety.
I'm not Muslim, and I find your comment very ignorant. Have you actually read the bible or any of its forerunners in their entirety ? For if you did, you would certainly not think very highly of this "GOD" you speak of. Furthermore, for all we know, there could be additional books of the bible that describe this "GOD" to be further of a sh*t head, that the council of nicea didn't deem to be fit for the image they were building. I think, your time will be better spent in not following the apocryphal works of men (bible, torrah, qu'uran) and focus your remaining days on this world by educating yourself in the natural sciences (Physics, Biology, Chemistry).
lying, beating, killing ? Obviously you pay no attention to the Old Testament !!!! And nowhere in the Quran does Mohammad claim that he is the only person who has heard God. It is the same message being reminded to all Children of Abraham who are not paying attention to what is right.
people who wake up from temporal lob seizures do not remeber what happens during that and they are not as elequent as Quranic language is. Any stupid will believe that.
all muslims believe that jesus (peace be upon him) is slave and prophet messenger of the on almighty god just like muhammed (peace be upon him)
anyone st*pid enough to watch anything regarding anything by the history channel, is by definition, an id**t
I've read it and rate about equal with the Mormon Bible
This corrupt video is blasphemous, from the beginning it shows symbolic pentagrams and the Illuminati's all seeing eye in back of the dollar bill.
Those secret societies want to disrupt the message. On the otherhand I am glad that enough of us got to expose it. I truly regret trusting the video first before reading the comments our Ummah put down. and For the people who find the Quran too complicated for their soul to grasp.............................
Get Real. It is you who needs Allah(Only 1 God) not the contrary. From the way you guys try to sound i can feel the coward slipping out, if you want a cure Try some secret math first.
The Qu'ran isn't that hard to understand... i don't know arabic 100% so i read the qu'ran's that have the english translations on the side. Which make it very easy to understand.
'Words' my friends are the problem. What ever you say and however you say won't reach the other person un-manipulated. Visuals and experiences on the other hand are more reliable. Better go and experience for yourself instead of playing around with words!!
Not sure if this has been commented earlier, but the Qur'an is not organized according to the length of its chapters. I stopped watching the video as it is unreliable; after all it is from History channel!
these guys makin a big mistake here the Quran was already written,the revelations were hadiths that they wrote down after the holy prophet Muhammad(saw) past away.
I would recommend a few Islamic scholars for the non-muslim audience, whether they be Atheist, Jew or Christian. There is too many misconceptions associated with Islam. Sheikh Hamza Yusuf, Sheikh Imran Hossain, Sheikh Khalid Yasin, Ahmed Deedat and Dr. Zakir Naik just to name a few exceptional inspirational speakers especially for the western audience clear up these ill judements made by the critics, media and illiterates which influence and turn the mass populas of society to believing the hype.
All you need is to be open minded and non judgemental and start analyzing the facts and not fiction. Infact do your own research if you feel sceptical about what these Islamic scholars say. If you listen with a little attension, you would be shocked to know the real facts about Islam including Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism. These schoars i have mentioned clarify the truth from fiction.
I would say Dr Zakir Naik would be good to listen to escecially to the logical type of minds and common reasoning. He covers science in Islam and comparitive religion as well as many others, he tells the real truth about Christianity with precise quotes from both Quran and Bible,Torah and Hindu scriptures as well as many other sources of texts which would make any sceptic do there reseach for them selves and come to find what is genuine truth and you will find Islam prevails.
Sheikh Hamza Yusuf is a motivational speaker, as well as the ones i have mentioned. These can easily be found on site called Youtube. They will have some kind of impact to your belief system.
why they do not represent the opinions of the most intelligent brains in the history of sceince and knowlege?
they pick informations witch are oly able to make pictures in the way to make pepeole believe what they want,for exampel like in kinda garden. teaching pectures not knowledge.this method holds pepeol from real perceptions,people of the western world must be carefull and they must protect the quality of the understanding because actuelly knowledge is generally confused with information and most of people are looking for information or experience,not knowledge,they do not find knowledge.
in this video the ignorent persons are using a sireous vioce with hepocryt caractér,traying to give bad image to islam and to plant a seeds of what against submission to ALLAH.
those who are attractedby externals,who look for the outward signs of teachership,who rely on emotion in studies or watching like this kind of videos(kinndagarden videos)or reading any book they might choose are the pond-flies of the islam reality and it tradition,they skip and skim upon the surface.Because they have words for´profound`and `significant`,they think,incorrectly,that they know these experience.This is why we say that,for practical purposes,they know nothing.
they should know that the essence of islam or submission to the Will of the creature of the heveans and earth and what between them is superior to the terminology of How? or why? .
These videos contain a lots of errors , ignorance , simplism , stereotypes, lies , historic inaccuracy ...concerning islam , moslims & their history , unfortunately enough: very poor videos.
The makers of these videos were only interested in their own hypothesis concerning whether islam encourages violence or not ...silly assumption really .
Well, when muslims or others are oppressed , attacked , humiliated.....they have the internationally recognized human right to defend themselves against western israeli &other imperialism : one does not need the Qur'an for just that .
Why people around the world need a God to respect the others ? See God in each of your fellow brothers here below on earth and that we'll make you feel better. Religion as shown in this doc is mostly urgent social regulation. Anyway we must have all respect for the beliefs of all religions.
this documentary is full of lies and here is an advice when you talk about bible you don't get muslims to tell you about well it is the about coran bring a muslim schooler that is objectivite
gradualy he started to beleive he is a profet reeeeeeeeally !!!!!!!!!
muhamed wanted to kill him self !!!!!!(part 2 4.50)
from where did you get that.
the only group of people and culture who understands the creators message and his prophets are africans, we europeans never understands the concept of GOD and divinity and when we comes into contact with any religions we mess it up with politics the only culture we understand. when i visit africa and began studying the people, their cultures and religion i see deep spirituality, these people posses spirituality in them something that most other cultures or people lack. so my point is, if we want to understand today's religions or scriptures we should refer back to africa and her cultures to enable us get a better understanding as it seems all evidence points to her being the source and concept of god or creator. if we do not get to the source we will remain confused and messed up like we already are..........
I cannot agree more.. But this spirituality is not limited to Africans only, you can find this in South Asians and in some middle east places too
Erm, have not read all the comments here but just to clarify, Mohammed did not have sex with a six year old girl. The most valid sources explain he was officially married to Aisha when she was nine, but did not start a proper relationship with her, including a sexual one, until she had reached puberty. We should all bear in mind 1400 years ago a girl in puberty would have been mentally and emotionally mature enough for marriage as society and upbringing was completely different to today. And this was not only the case in the middle east but all around the world.
True dude. Quite true. This documentary got many flaws and contain wrong knowledge.
listen to Zakir Naik to clear your thoughts about Islam
Very good.. but it would have been nice if they went over the Sunni/Shia split and the differences between them...
Countless people through history have used relegion as an excuse for war or to supress "less" informed people but those people choose what parts of religion best helps thier own personal goals. Terrorism continues because of the complete lack of respect for other religions. I believe the war on terror was just, but not to the extent of complete invation of afghanistan and the Iraq war wasn't about the war on terror. I think we have done enough in the middle east to grow a whole new crop of terrorists as it is. To loosely quote Ron Paul, If you think that terrorists are attacking us because we are the greatest country in the world your living in a fairytale, i don't always agree with him but he is honest. I don't believe in any religion myself but encourage people to follow whatever they believe in, as long as they don't hurt other people, its freedom of religion. To pigeon hole all muslims as terrorists is wrong no matter how you spin it. There are still many instances of terrorism other than by muslims in recent years. Lets stop stereotyping and go after the individual people that commit these crimes instead.
Allah guides who he wants, so do not bash your head trying to convince each other . As the quran says, to you your religion and to me mine. That means leave each other alone and live in peace. But a informative dialogue is always healthy for both sides. Who ever said exchange of knowledge is wrong.
From the begining the Admin of this blog has been kind of mocking others and there belief, forgetting the arogance of his own, he is on the war with all of those who rejects his idea of being the sons and daughters of mere monkeys.
No matter how many times one may answer his question, he comes up with the same tired idea and repeats it over and over. Rejecting others idea and proclaimng to be the one who knows all.
Whenever, when a evolutionist come face to face with a creationist, talks about facts, but forgets that his so called Facts are actually Theories. Now very cleaverly he will tell any one that Theories are not just the collective of ideas but Facts.
In his previous posts he made so many cliams according to which, i am a brainwashed person, only looks at one side, haven't read other scriptures and so on. As i replied to him and answered him, actually showed him the mirror, he went mute. He then chose to ignore the questions i asked and bombarded me with another slot of question which i systematically answered in my previous posts which could be seen and read.
His claim that all the Muslim theologians, scietists, mathematicians, astronomers, musicians, etc, and there work was actually work of some other people. Yet he denies that his over rated evolutionist darwin was nothing but a person who actully not only copy the idea of someone but also stole the entire concept. Surprisingly this all knowing admin did not know about this simple fact which is around us since.
No matter what ever argument one gives, what ever explanation one presents, the mind of a person who rejects to even consider other ideas, is never even going to give one single thought. Very typical and extreme as it comes, as we all know there is nothing which was made out of nothing, however a man like this admin who would go on and say without any hesitation that we as well as all living thing just happen to be. Created out of nothing. It is all random, it just happen there to be ONE SINGLE CELL created itself (from what) from which came all living thing, how absurd. Even in his own life nothing happens out of nothing, yet he willl claim all of this happened itself out of nothing.
It is sad to see people going so deep in the lower part of the humanity, proclaiming things which cant even be proven by those so call evolutionist, being accpeted blindly by people who are confused themselves.
This admin said and i quote.
"By your reasoning we can expect at any moment a member of an African tribe (let say with high IQ and a Bible/Quran in his hand) to prove the String Theory right. . . . ."
The nonsens of this statement is at its best, in my reply where i asked him if he can prove the theory with the help of all the equipment he need. His answer was obviously No.
We can see here the helplessness of a evolutionist, who can actually come up with some ideas (i call it in some occasion fanatsy) and resemble it with the reality.
If the theories are not just idea of an individual, why can he then not prove this so called String Theory? According to him, theories are nothing but Facts?
An african tribe-man may not be able to prove how life funtions, but it can display the best way to live without being a delusionalist.
In our fragile balance of society, Riligion and Science must co-exist, as they are the two sides of one coin. Religious institutes may have been currupt but the religion itself stays in its pure form only if one can understand the nature of its existence and the value which it prescribes. Religion without a doubt have made us what we are today, however one (thinking ones) can reject that it is the science which is shaping our world constantly. One must not forget the benefit of the science and the goal of the religion. Without religion the world would live in ignorance, helplessness, ego-ism and self-ism will rule the world and the values, which is already being lost in the west, will be lost forever. Imagine a world where every one believes that He created Himself out of nothing. The tyranny is already in its full flow, those who actually believe in self-creation are the one caring for none but themselves, such cruelty, merciless, unjust views which often derives one to acquire power over another by any means as the self-creationist would love only himself and there will be no way where others will be spared.
The very example is right here in the form of this admin, who runs behind any one every one who doubt his Evolution theory.
Such harsh words my friend. Why cant you understand. These are some, what our Last Prophet Muhammad (May Peace Be Upon Him and his family) called as "Jahil" (means :lost souls or who don't know). You must not show anger but pity, and don't think bad for them but pray for them, may their eyes are opened to Islam, before its too late.
You are right, but you know some people will just try you untill you react in a way which is not yours. Thats what happen to me when i read somthing here firt time and over reacted, yet i have no regrets as i only defended my own understanding. But thanks for your advise.
@911_was_an_Inside_Job,
That was one BIG rant. You twisted everything I've said.
So far I responded to every comment of yours by carefully quoting and answering each paragraph. I'm not going to do that anymore. Why? Because arguing with creationist is almost impossible.
It is impossible because they/you don't understand some basic scientific and historical concepts:
What are the theories?
What are the facts?
Did people really come out of monkeys?
What is the difference between Evolution and Abiogenesis?
Was there scientific advancement before Islam?
etc.
So I'll encourage you to believe in your God (2/3 of the people on Earth will believe in other Gods) if that makes you feel better, but please don't put it under our noses as the right one.
I can see what u are saying Mr. Vlatko, but i tell you one thing. You cannot define every thing with the current scientific knowledge you have. We cannot say any thing for certain, if you understand what i mean. Talk about The Arc etc.
@v2fftb,
You only prove the point in my previous comment.
Where did I say that everything can be defined with the current scientific knowledge we have? Nowhere.
You are yet to prove the evolution, the microliving organism which created itself out of nowhere. Explain it to yourself before you go on the mission to expalin it to others.
I don't need to put my thoughts under anyones nose, you took it that way while i was referening an i**** who just brag like: bigbang in quran is wrong, iron in quran is wrong, fish in quran is wrong, like na i****. Stereotype.
Your evolution has just let you go down and vanish like you may have come to happen "out of no where".
I do not need encouragement, as i already believe in God, may be you need it as it appears the earth is sliping away under your feet.
@911_was_an_Inside_Job,
1. Don't call people idiots. No one called you an idiot.
2. See. you don't understand the difference between Evolution and Abiogenesis and still you're arguing. You really have to read upon it.
Evolution is the body of theory that seeks to explain how life got to be so diverse. It begins where abiogenesis ends.
We can't create life, we don't know for sure how it was created. That is the domain of Abiogenesis, which tries to postulate some explanations, unfortunately without success so far.
On the other hand we are sure that life evolves, which is in the domain of Evolution.
3. Once more, all the scientific miracles in the Quran are over simplified, basic, often wrong interpretations of what was already known. I've explained that well in my previous comments.
4. I don't know why you think the earth is slipping away under my feet. That is not the case. I assure you.
What i meant by that was.. That you cannot say just yet that SOME Qur'anic verses are wrong. We may still need Qur'an, as it is still referring somethings we don't know yet for sure. Like the 7 skies.
I just say this. Take a line from Qur'an,,, an idea that was yet to be discovered by human science till now. (by human, i mean one that is not related to these Books) and research on it. Be it right or wrong. Why can't you understand that the QUESTION is the most important thing for any research? and so, if we study Qur'an in a better way, in search for knowledge we may find it easier to move further.
And yeah.. both of you looks at your limits.. please calm down and just talk.. don't try to impose yourself on each other.
Calling an idiot "idiot" is an act of truth. I got to say what truth is if i have investigate the fact. I do not go runnig after people, nor i pick fight, all i did is answered an IDIOT who needed to know that he is indeed an IDIOT. I practiced my freedom of speach in the same way some one go out and insults a person worthy of being admired. You would not mind and would not alter there thoughts but you would certainly banned my openion if i call someone who was insulting my faith an IDIOT. I hope you know what it is called?
The guy i answered here happen to be my first post here, i can not understand why every where when people say something absolutely rubish about Islam is tolerated in the name of freedom of speach and some one who answered that retard is edited by people like you? Who are you to limit my view which actualy does justice but leave the other who is actually crossing the limit where freedom of speach becomes freedom to insult?
People like you cant stand people like me, for my understanding all your points are actually not even clear to yourself. You are playing blind here, pretending to be know all, advocating things which you dont not understand in first place. Copy paste even a kid of 6 years old can do as precisely as you can. But that does not make the kid cleaver or intelligent. Atleast not in my openon.
Not only you cant creat life, there is none living today can do it, not even those so called top notch scientist sitting in there lab can do that. Thats the funny part, after knowing every thing about DNA, how it is made, the elements, the function etc. these helpless people of science still are as puzzle as they were at te beginnig.
Look, i do not disagree with the basic of the evolution, i agree we all came out of the water, i just disagree with all thos bogus fatcs which tells us that a living microorganism just came to be out of nothing. As i have said many time, nothing can produce nothing.
What Darwin said what other followers of Darwins are saying is same as cow dung in my country hanging on the wall becomes a center of attrction by the westerners, thniking how the hel in the world a Cow can shit on the Wall like that. LOL.
@911_was_an_Inside_Job,
You don't understand what is ad hominem either do you?
When you label a person, attack his personality, rather than his arguments it is called ad hominem, and you're full of it.
So don't call people idiots. This is one subtle example of your insults:
"People like you cant stand people like me, for my understanding all your points are actually not even clear to yourself."
It doesn't matter who am I, or what kind of person am I, what is clear or not to me. What counts is the discussion, the arguments. But I suppose you don't understand that.
"Not only you cant creat life, there is none living today can do it, not even those so called top notch scientist sitting in there lab can do that."
You're still clinging to this. I've said many times before. No, I can't create life, and no one can. But that is not going in your faith's favor. It doesn't prove or disprove anything, whatsoever. I suppose you have nothing else to add.
"Copy paste even a kid of 6 years old can do as precisely as you can."
I believe I first warned you about copying and pasting someone else's opinions. So who is being 6 years old kid now?
"Look, i do not disagree with the basic of the evolution, i agree we all came out of the water, i just disagree with all thos bogus fatcs which tells us that a living microorganism just came to be out of nothing."
Now you're changing your stand, and you're still openly displaying your ignorance. Abiogenesis (which is not a solid theory) is not suggesting that the microorganisms came out of nothing. Please educate yourself.
So what can I say. All your points still fail miserably.
Wait a second, im worried here about our way of talking to each other, i see it going out of control. I am saying sorry to you and to those whom i ever isulted and stopping this useless talk for good. Please forgive me if you can. Good bye.
You know what? I have been visiting this forum for 3 days now regularly and watching you guys fight. But i had no idea how to stop you guys. Good grief that you understood
Old saying: Half knowledge is dangerous. Let me explain..
1) The Holy Qu'r'an is not story book like Bible.. "Once upon a time" stuff. All the verses in Quran are like slogans. Some verse can be explained in few sentences while just another verse will need an entire book of explaination. Like a simple slogan "Milk does body good" for a child it means it someting tastes good with sugar, for an uneducated person it means food to fill stomach but the same slogan to an educated person means milk not only fills stomach but also gives vital nutitions and vitamins to make body healthy.
2) It says very specifically God made all living things from water. Science has proved the very first organism was a one celled organism was first born in water and all living beings evolved from it and this organism was actually arrangement of certain acids and bases originally existant in earthen wet soils (Qurnic word equivalent to 'sticky mud or clay') . Go check your science journals. No where in Quran is talks about evolution from one species to another.. it does not have to be explanatory .. as the world and science progresses they will find all these facts to be true.
3) About IRON it says WE (GOD) sent it from heaven (sky): Now please go check History Channel and do reasearch in Science Journals scientists have only in the last 7 years proved that iron was never an element on earth it was deposited by few major metiorites which crashed on earth.. and for your kind information these scientists are mostly atheist and for sure has no information about any mention of such thing in Quran to work on their research.
4) The very first Verse of Quran "Praise be to God (Almighty) Lord of WORLDS. not just world. HE is GOD of all the worldS not just earth, HE is GOD of every living and non-living created things of entire existance, wheather life on earth, Mars, planets, novas or under earth crust, sea, sky... While according to Bible life is only on Earth and Earth is flat and also center of universe.. Galelio was imprisoned for saying Earth is round.. (Already mentioned in Quran earth to be egg shaped sphere), Earth is not the center or universe and if any form of life even microbes found anywhere outside earth will shatter the Biblical theory. Sorry about it.
5) Also mentioned in Quran it says (dont have verse in front of me now so not verbatim) WE (GOD) has protected us by 7 skys (tibaqan= layers) .... and for your kind information our atmospere is made of exactly 7 levels namely: 1. Troposphere 2. Stratosphere 3. Mesosphere 4. Thermosphere 5. Exosphere 6. Ionosphere 7. Magnetosphere. Each one protection from various harmful rays from space..
There are other hundreds of verses which was mentioned in Quran over 1420 years back is being only discovered and proved true in the last few decades and advant of powerful telescopes..
Hello, i read your reply but am unable to figure out why did you sent those to me? I know all this and have read a lot of documents regarding it. Any way, Good work and may Allah reward you for your effort.
The claim that ” During the life of Prophet, the Koran was never written down”. I don’t know what’s the source of historic events in this documentary.
Documentary said: “Muhammed died at the age of 62. As he exhaled his last breath, the Koran was complete. However it did not yet exist in any physical form but only in memories…. “This claim is quite baseless and neglecting known historic events:
1: 2nd most important figure in Islam; Omar (the 2nd Caliph), in the famous event of accepting Islam when he went to kill Muhammad with bare sword in his hand. And then moved back to the house of his sister on news that his sister and her husband already accepted Islam, and there his sister hidden the written Koranic chapters on his arrival.
2:Bukhari( the 2nd most authentic book after Quran among Muslims) narrates many Hadith about written chapters of Koran. Like chapter Taha’s transcript was sent to Madina before the migration of Prophet to Madina.
3: There is a known list for the writers of Koranic revelation who were formally appointed by Muhammad. This list include Zaid bin Sabit, Abu-Bakr, Omar, Usman Ali, Abdullan and Ubi bin Kaab etc.
4: During migration to Yasrib(Madina), Muhammad given a written confirmation of Peace to Suraqa who was following him. This written approval to Suraqa is strong evidence that Prophet kept stuff with him to write down any possible revelation, during his life time.
5: During the month of Ramadan, recitation of whole Koran is a special worship with strong emphasis in Islam. It is also much known that Prophet normally recite whole Koran once during the prayers in Ramadan. While he recite Koran 2 times in the last Ramadan of his life. Around 4, 5 months before his death.
6: Western researchers also witness Koran at various places written in the life of Prophet. For example:
1:Andrew Rippin(Ed) in Approaches of the history of interpretation of the Quran
2: Dr. Maurice Bucaille in “The Bible, The Quran and Science”
3: Kenneth Cragg in “The mind of the Quran”
4: Karen ArmStrong: A known Roman Catholic writer and historian of our time
I can name a lot more if needed. Also i can reference the old books for all above events for research if anybody is willing to.
Then it proclaims that the event of compilation of Quran was initiated first time by Caliph Usman in 51 Hijri after 19 years of death of Prophet. This is also wrong.
In actual, upon the command of the Prophet his Companions would write down what was revealed of the Noble Quran. They used, for this purpose, palm branches stripped of leaves, parchments, shoulder bones, stone tablets, etc. About forty people were involved in this task. Among them was Zayd Ibn Thaabit who showed his work to the Prophet . Thus, the Quran was correctly arranged during the Prophet’s life, but it was not yet compiled into one book.
When Abu Bakr became Caliph after the Prophet died, a large number of the Companions were killed during the War of Apostasy. 'Umar Ibn Al-Khattaab went to the Caliph and discussed the idea of compiling the Quran into one volume. He was disturbed, as most of those who memorised it had died. Then, Abu Bakr called for Zayd and commissioned him to collect the Quran into one book, which became known as the 'Mus-haf.'
And all this compilation took place during the very next 2 years after Prophets death.
Reza Aslan narrates about very first revelation on Muhammad:
“IN HIS MIND, he heard this voice. And the voice said: RECITE ………”
see the emphasis of "IN HIS MIND" by the Reza, which is quite contary to being unbaised.
@v2fftb,
The Greeks beat your Quran to it by many many years, around 340 BC Aristotle said that our planet is a sphere, 150 AD Ptolemy elaborated Aristotle ideas into a cosmological model, and so on, and so on. All that science stuff in your Quran is plagiarized.
Harsh tone? all beliefs are respected until they try to force their beliefs on others.
there you go again.. stay calm and cool down.. we are not here to fight.. but to clarify our points.
So what is your point then.. do you believe that the Greeks are good to be followed and their books should be read and followed?
I already told you my point, nothing to clarify, case closed.
By my question it means that i don't understand your point. And since i am left un-clarified. Case cannot be closed..
Would you be humble enough to explain it to me one more time.. Briefly this time.
Untill today, not one single scientist have ever manage or even come closer to creat a cell, or a drop of blood, out of nothing. It is not because they dont have what they need in order to creat it, it is because they just cant. A Human can not creat something living out of nothing, with no help. It is the ability of almighty God.
The compitability of some Quranic or Biblical verses are unchallengable, unrefutable. They contain ultimate truth, secret of unseen and mystries which is being discovered time to time. One can not deny, if one study these scriptures, that these books have the power which is not possesed by any other book ever written.
@911.....
Your man made Quranic and Biblical verses about your invisible gods did not create something living out of nothing either.
Except your "slippery slope fallacy's"
Edit: By the way are you over 18?
Hahahaha.
Keep it up, the work i mean.
P.S. by the way have ever been to school? You must learn how to talk.
Here we go, when all else fails for you religee's the "ad hominem attacks" are at the ready!
Why do you mention school? are you a school kid?
@Vlatko And here i am asking again and again.. If a Human wrote that Book. Then at that time, with that technology (1437 years past) how did he knew that the earth is round?.. how did he knew that worlds and sun and moon, revolves in their paths? Why do i have to mention again and again this verse?:
"It is He Who created The Night and the Day, And the sun and the moon: All (the celestial bodies) Swim along, each in its Rounded course." [Al-Qur’aan 21:33"
@Achmes_Razor
I don't really know much about it but i think those religious people get angry when you use that harsh tone to commute and harsh words for their believes.
Respect their believes and they will listen to you respectfully.
School, this is where you actually learn the manner of talking to someone, anyone. I guess you failed at this miserably.
If you want to talk or discuss on this issue, do it like Human does, not beast. I'm not here to fight with any one who disagree with me. Chapter closes here.
@911_was_an_Inside_Job,
Do you even read what was being said?
Evolutionary thought goes back way further to the time of the ancient Greeks (and before that). Most of what Muslims attribute to 'enlightened and independent thought' is actually taken from concepts that have been going around for centuries earlier.
Hahaha, indeed.
I'm deeply offended by the fact that this documentary claimed that Prophet Muhammad (SAW) wanted to kill himself when he found out that he was the messenger of the lord. First of all the Prophet knew all along that he was the messenger of God. Secondly this documentary is showing the messenger as a weak person, he was infact pure and strong and had a lot of patience.
Indeed indeed.. thats why i always say, what they show is not all true.. perhaps very few among them are... and a NO, i believe he didn't knew all along that he was the chosen one. Because when Angel Gabriel first brought the first revelation, he was surprised and astonished. It is said that he (S.A.W.W) went to his house where his wife, Lady Khadija supported and encouraged him, and then took him to her uncle, Warqa Bin Noefil, who told him that he was the chosen one. And so we cannot say that he knew it all along
I believe this is the original verse that i mentioned.. I do apologize for that naive act that i did back then.
It is He Who created The Night and the Day, And the sun and the moon: All (the celestial bodies) Swim along, each in its Rounded course." [Al-Qur’aan 21:33
Sorry about those [i] and [/i].. i was thinking of is as a normal chat box
I really can't go along with that answer,
Okay, here is a thing that will suffice me a bit more if answered.
If u have gone through the Qur'an, u must have gone through a verse saying:
"And the suns and the moons and the earth, revolve in their assigned paths"
That was written in it about 14.33 hundred years ago. and if i recall correctly, man just discovered that world is round a couple of centuries back, before that we were thinking that world is flat and this and that.
But Qur'an, even told us then, that thats not the case. Didn't it give us a hint? I am not saying that you must believe that Qur'an is not a man written book, what i meant was th KNOWLEDGE EXTRACTION PATH, if we can have something from it in advance why bother discovering it again? like man took a thousand years to discovered something that was already mentioned in this book.
Like Rutherford discovered atomic model, but we are not discovering it again, are we?
Now i know this discussion is old, but that discussion was very vague and was un-understandable, it does not help you to have an idea.
What i say is that take what these books got, and make our path researching them. Finding them correct will make our day, won't it? After all, we all want to KNOW and TO KNOW is all what we need.
(And what do you mean by BAD STUFF?)
that verse is not in the quran. perhaps it comes up differently if you would like to quote where it is in the quran that would be great.
now what about all the times the quran is wrong:
quran says there are 7 planets....this is wrong
Allah is He Who created seven Firmaments and of the earth a similar number. Through the midst of them (all) descends His Command: that ye may know that Allah has power over all things, and that Allah comprehends, all things in (His) Knowledge. Qur'an 65:12
apparently the moon is further than the stars according to the quran
See ye not how Allah has created the seven heavens one above another,
'And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp Qur'an 71:15-16
here it says the stars are the closest things
Surely We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment, the stars. Qur'an 37:6
here it says the moon gives off cold
Reclining in the (Garden) on raised thrones, they will see there neither the sun's (excessive heat) nor (the moon's) excessive cold.
Qur'an 76:13
They think the moon gives off its own light. The moon does not emit light. The Arabic word for reflected (in`ikaas) does not appear in this sentence.
And hath made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp?
Qur'an 28:16
the quran says sperm is made not in the testicles where we know it is produced, rather it says:
He is created from a drop emitted .Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs. Qur'an 86:6-7
when speaking of animals it says:
And of every thing We have created pairs: That ye may receive instruction. Qur'an 51:49
but we know there are some animals that produce asexually not needing pairs.
humans were never a blood clot:
reated man, out of a (mere) clot of congealed blood. Qur'an 96:2
here the quran says that bones are formed first then flesh wraps around them, but we know this is wrong. the muscles form first then the bones and flesh form at the same time
Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones then (not and) clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!
Qur'an 23:14
oh my goodness i could go on and on about how wrong the quran is. but why listen to me. you can just do a google search and make sure you dont go to Harun Yahyas websites anymore. he is lying to you.
As i said in my earlier post that i am a beginner to this stuff, and that i wont be able to interpret things too well. I am actually a Kid at these things, but hope to have your support in my path.
I am not in offence, but am just a knowledge seeker, the one who believes in truth and don't believe in things like media or any HUMAN'S SAYING (need proof for every thing, don't we?. I am sorry about the origin of the Qur'anic verse i mentioned, i will give it to you very soon). . To understand Qur'an, i think one must know Arabic. Study it in its own language, shouldn't we?
But thats not what i meant. What i meant was if we had taken into account of what Qur'an has to say, we might be standing in a totally different area. You know what i said about KNOWLEDGE EXTRACTION? If we take a path from it and research for it we might be able to reach an idea?
Since the most toughest part of any research is the QUESTION, am i not right?
But there were some misunderstanding i got with the above defined verses. Before what you said, what i believed about these verses you gave me were some what like this. Please correct me, 'cause i have been thinking them as:
[i]quran says there are 7 planets....this is wrong[/i]
I don't really know about it, if u see the ARABIC version, the word Firmaments can be replaced by HEAVENS, i believe that is about the 7 skies, not 7 worlds.
[i]'And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp[/i]
I believe, the word "MIDST" means middle not above, i believe.
{i}Surely We have adorned the nearest heaven with an adornment, the stars.{/i}
That is saying about the stars are on the NEAREST HEAVEN, not that they are closest to us.
[i] Reclining in the (Garden) on raised thrones, they will see there neither the sun's (excessive heat) nor (the moon's) excessive cold. [/i]
With these ancient scriptures my friend, things are a bit more tricky. You cannot take them all literally. I think, what it MIGHT meant was that its cold at night.
The things in "(*)" are the words that were added only in TRANSLATIONS of Qur'an for a better understanding. You should learn Arabic.. I mean it literally. And study the Arabic version for a better understanding.(no offence)
[i]And hath made the moon a light therein, and made the sun a lamp?
Qur'an 28:16[/i]
Wrong origin, i can't find it at the mentioned area.
[i]And of every thing We have created pairs: That ye may receive instruction[/i]
We know that even those guys need paired cells for reproduction, (inside them even if thats what the case is)
[i] He is created from a drop emitted .Proceeding from between the backbone and the ribs [/i]
I really don't know about it, but doesn't testis lie between the back bone?.. at the end if you see human skeleton from the front? It might be said about women. You know, where uterus lay?
[i]Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump;.[/i]
The word CONGEALED is actually CLINGING, meaning ;stick or hold together and resist separation, isn't that true? And we all know that the baby is not flying around in the womb.
[i]Then We made the sperm into a clot of congealed blood; then of that clot We made a (foetus) lump; then we made out of that lump bones then (not and) clothed the bones with flesh; then we developed out of it another creature. So blessed be Allah, the best to create!
Qur'an 23:14[/i]
Doesn't LUMP means a peace of FLASH dear sir?
And i just saw the video of a baby forming, and i really can't understand how can you believe that. I mean i saw a lump, after that a very THIN version, (which really needed some proteins .. lol) , and finally that THIN thing becomes a bit healthy.
Please clarify me, because i am getting confused here.
Thankyou
(And one more thing, i don't believe in ONE PARTICULAR SITE.. so i don't believe what this Harun Yahya has to say, i had to confirm it from different sources and from more authentic ones)
I am pretty new in these kind of things.. and i wont be able to give out a better explanation or better questions.. I had gone through the comments and there were some things that became my concern.
Mr Vlatko, I can see through your comments that you must have read many books, and your knowledge level is way too high above me. In all of the comments of yours i had read, i saw that you are completely against the religious or ancient scriptures. You have proven some where too well about why do u believe, and what do you believe. I must say that i am impressed, i am really impressed.
I have a question for you. The way you were talking about Bible and Qur'an.. I don't know why but i felt some thing that i wanna share. I wanna ask with hope for a truly honest reply.
The questions is... Have you ever gone through Bible or Qur'an? Do you know whats in there? That is soooo into focus now a days.. even in the presence of these Modern theories?
Now i read that the answer is a YES from you. But its really too hard to believe, as a reader, i don't believe that i have seen any one in my life who can go utterly against a book. I mean i have also been problems with some of the ideas ( actually many of them) of a couple of books, but even so, i cannot find my self go utterly against them.
It seems like even if you really had gone through them you NEVER DID CONSIDERED THEM BOOKS, BUT SOME THING DIFFERENT THEN THAT.
These are mine and mine alone thoughts. I would be happy to have a good honest reply. Clarify my concern please.
Thank you
@v2fftb,
Not a problem, I'll give you the answer.
I'm not going totally against these books. I admit, there are many valuable thoughts in them. Lot's of wisdom can be harnessed there (in a philosophical sense).
However those books are full of metaphors, contradictions, errors and justifications for a really bad stuff.
Please answer my question.. i think i forgot to reply you.
with you all the way and all the time.....systematic brainwashing sooner or later sips into your dna and it becomes almost impossible to make ppl see they've been led on and exploited for centuries by god and religions....you only see things clearer by autosnapping out of religious stupor,only then could ppl realize that religs are tailor-made to control ppls of the world
this documentary is heart breaking. its full of lies about Qur'an and Islam... and they are doing it very very purposefully...my brothers and sisters believe yourself and your own wisdom instead of believing what's being said about Islam. do you own research. Read Qur'an and study Islam and decide yourself. Peace be onto you.
The fact is Qur'an was written down in Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him's life. The people who wrote it down are called Kaatbeen-e Wahi. They are believed to be six and Prophet Muhammad peace and blessings be upon him gave them news of paradise in his life for this noble work. Prophet peace and blessings be upon him used to speak to them and they would write it down. Their names can be found in many Islamic history books and also in Hadith(sayings of prophet peace and blessings be upon him). There were Quranic scriptures already existed at the time of Prophet's death thats why caliph Usman ordered burning all other except the one with his daughter and Prophet peace and blessings be upon him's wife Hafsa may Allah be pleased with her.
There is no contradiction in the Holy Qur'an and its very easy for a lay man to understand it. As Allah says in Qur'an "and we made it easy for you to understand". If you don't believe me read it yourself you ll know. Though its in Arabic but translations are available in all languages of the world. You can easily find online.
Many things being said in this documentary about Qur'an are very very wrong. My sincere advice to all my brothers and sisters in humanity is please don't believe what others say. God has given you wisdom, read it yourself and decide for yourself.
One thing I must say about True Islam is that most of the people who follow it truly do follow it. Apart from extremists and every religion has them. You will not find many Chistians following every commandment in the bible. It also is a beautiful culture. (Again apart from the crazy people that all religions have) Great program!
Ahhh...finally someone who gets it! Thank you, brother! Peace to you and to all beings!
bin ladden belongs in a US political documentary under employees!!!! He is totally not relevant to this documentary!!! how silly, before religion, there was chaos, all law come from religion, without reliigion, we have chaos, satanism and athesium is very fashionable these days, do what you want with your free will, dont insult other peoples otherwise you outline yourself as being pathetic, increase the peace all
Your whole argument is predicated on the assumption that 'religion is peaceful'. It really isn't. Many wars, and many people have died in the name of their religion.
As for the 'chaos' you refer to being abundant before religions arose. That seems to say that man was not as intelligent back then as he was in the modern era. Religion had nothing to do with the advancement of modern man... in fact they suppressed and killed geniuses such as Galileo and Socrates.
And lets not mention the church's power over their people. So much so, that if you were to speak out against the church or not pay their dues, you were excommunicated.
I'm not sure where you get your nonsensical ideas from. But I would really like to see some credible sources.
islam is a very credible source if u seek peace in modern era ;)
Dear Fuad, I agree with you that religion has been responsible for many wars and crimes in this world but before we jump into conclusion, we need to look into the reason behind it. Afghan war and Iraq war were not religious war even thoush millions of inncocent lost there lives, more from eastern side. Moreover, we know how bad history we have about communist under the rules of Mao, stalin, lenin etc. Prophets of GOD never taught anyone to fight and kill innocent being but encouraged people to worship the GOD alone but it is the people later after the prophets death uses religion for personal political gains. When did moses fought against inncoent people, when did jesus fought against anyone. Muhammad fought in defence only to protect his community, prophet noah, lut, solomon, david, they only encouraged people to worship GOD alone. Yes some wars have taken place but we need to know the reason before yelling out anger on the religion. World war I & II were due to political reason. Christians changed there book and fought war against inncoent to convert them into there religion and today we put the blame on innocent Jesus who never fought in his life. There is no compulsion in religion, you do whatever you like with no offence. May GOD guide you my brother
i disagree, its not religion but human greed for power and total control is responsible for wars.
what is the fault of religion if some people back in time used it to suppress others and benefit themselves? its not religion its people responsible for using it in such a way. search for yourself. search the truth. if u really want to find u ll find it.
bin laden doesn't exist!!!! And to put him in a documentary about the quran is insulting!! he should be in a US political documentary under employees!!!! He is totally not relevant to this documentary!!! IDIOTS!!!!!!
yes they are idiots..but this world is full of idiots. we don't have to act idiotically in order to respond them...instead respond wisely as our Qur'an teaches us. peace be onto you.
@Iram Syed,
You say, yes they are idiots... and then, but this world is full of idiots... also u r living in the darkness of ignorance...
Don't you think you've responded unwisely (contrary to what supposedly Qur'an teaches you) by confirming that they're idiots and that the world is full of idiots, also that they're living in the darkness of ignorance...
Religion is man made....to not realize this is distortion of the mind....it is a form of mental illness....no human can to this day know what created everything...and anyone claiming they can is full of shit....no one is fooled all of the time....
see this is a problem u think wat u see is wat islam teachers muslims dats wrong this muslims (especially in the west) have been put in pain by the americans israilies....... and dats why they show there hate when they see forigns from the countries thats gone against them threw war, but islam teachers us to love one another no matter who they are. and to fight for jihad is to only fight wen ur in da war not on a street were its calm ok.
The Quran explains the big bang theory
The Quran explains embryonic development
The Quran explains the movements of the planets ( both solar and galactic )
The Quran explains the movement and tendencies of our galaxy
The Quran explains the layers of our atmosphere
The Quran explains the role of mountains in holding land together
The Quran explains the rotation of the sun
The Quran explains the reflected moon light
The Quran explains the shape of the earth.
Above are just some of the things I realize not many people know about the Quran, not my attempt at any proof / disproof
before you pass judgement on a religion as if you are above and beyond it, actual read it. We will never all agree on what / if religion is good or bad, but at least let us not fly with our egos. therefore we should all agree on freedom of worship.
Let us make sure we defend the rights of those here who do not agree with us, if not for their sake, for the sake of our freedom to disagree with them.
respect and love for all, as Islam has taught me.
One can always read into texts these sorts of claims. Indeed, the Hindu texts (you know, the texts of those horrible and ignorant infidels that you guys supposedly talk peacefully about but the Koran does not) are far superior when it comes to eliciting philosophical views congruent with modern science as many, many scientists have said. In any case, the proof that you are wrong about these teachings being inherently part of the Koran is the fact that Muslims learned these things accurately only after western science told them. Afterwards, they could say, "Oh, look how the Koran said this all along!" Geesh! Don't any of you people understand how literature/language works? On the other hand, the Gita explicity says that reality as we know it is purely illusory and that, at base, all is one. Now, THAT is crystal clear and thoroughly in keeping with contemporary science! And besides, the Koran has the literary quality of toilet paper when compared to the sacred texts of Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Taoism, Judaism, and Christianity. In fact, the second proof that you are wrong is that, of all these great religious texts, the Koran is most backward in theology, ethics, philosophy, and politics. Of course, I wouldn't expect a Middle Easterner or African to know the difference. But anyone else? Dare to compare!
"the Koran has the literary quality of toilet paper when compared to the sacred texts of Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Taoism, Judaism, and Christianity."
Just how many languages do you speak?!
"In fact, the second proof that you are wrong is that, of all these great religious texts, the Koran is most backward in theology, ethics, philosophy, and politics."
Just how many texts did you read?!
"Of course, I wouldn't expect a Middle Easterner or African to know the difference. But anyone else? Dare to compare!"
White Power !!!
(even though most Muslims aren't Middle Easterner or African)
read it before you say anything..u r living in the darkness of ignorance ...not ur fault...u know whats being told to u...has not the time come u find out for urself? use ur wisdom find out what's the truth.
Lol did you say that mountains hold land together? Looool epic fail there!!!!!!!
The Quran explains the big bang theory....but its wrong
The Quran explains embryonic development....but its wrong
The Quran explains the movements of the planets ( both solar and galactic )....but its wrong
The Quran explains the movement and tendencies of our galaxy....but its wrong
The Quran explains the layers of our atmosphere....but its wrong
The Quran explains the role of mountains in holding land together....but its wrong....so very very wrong
The Quran explains the rotation of the sun....but its wrong
The Quran explains the reflected moon light....but its wrong
The Quran explains the shape of the earth.....but its wrong
all of these are based on later interpretations that were added AFTER the information was already known in science.
SO WHAT IS THE TRUTH
the truth about what?
Brother if you don't understand something you have no right to pass any comment on that. Read Qur'an yourself. its available for everyone to read in any language. Read it and decide for yourself. You have every right to disagree but criticizing without knowledge is not fair.
i have read it. so i have knowledge and have grounds to criticize it.
you have not understood the HOLY BOOK
yes i have. you have not understood the bhagavad gita
“And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Surah like thereunto;
and call your witnesses or helpers (if there are any) besides Allah,
if your (doubts) are true. “But if ye cannot –and of a surety you cannot –then fear the Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones –which is prepared for those who reject Faith.” 2:23:24
If only could you beat this simple challenge.
But if you cant, and im sure you wount, it will be prove of your own ignorance and foolishness.
Forget about disproving Quran's any statement, as you are not able to do not any man today or in coming future.
Dr. Kieth Moor accepted the idea of Embryology of the Quran.
According to the famous physicist and Nobel Prize winner, Albert Einstein, “Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.”
You may be an Atheist, Agnostic, or whatever, dont think for even one single second that you go on and talk nonsense about Quran or other religious books, as you may not comprihend.
“Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth
were joined together (as one unit of Creation), before We clove them asunder?” 21:30
This surah explains the Big Bang theory, where and what exactly do you find incorrect? What is the source of this information in the Quran?
“Seest thou not that Allah merges Night into Day and He merges Day into Night?” 31:29
Now do you understand the surah above? Prove it wrong.
“He created the heavens and the earth in true (proportions):
He makes the Night overlap the Day, and the Day overlap the Night.”
39:5
“And the earth, moreover, hath He made egg shaped.” 79:30
Have a good laugh now, egg shape earth, as i guess you are a poor linguistic. Now learn the meaning of the word which means or refer to egg in Arabic in this verse.
“It is He Who created the Night and the Day, and the sun and the moon: All (the celestial bodies) swim along, each in its rounded course.” 21:33
Prove it wrong.
“Blessed is He Who made Constellations in the skies,
and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light.” 25:61
As i mention before, you may not understand these verse and surahs as you have set your mind which does not give enough room for a new idea. Well, it is ok to me, it is your own way of seeing things and understanding it. As we all have our own way but some of us accept the logic and sense with open arm and some stay stingy for the rest of there life.
@911_was_an_Inside_Job,
Yes we heard that story before. Quran had the scientific answers way before the science proved them right.
Are you for real? You point out several verses and you expect someone to prove you wrong or right. It is the other way around. You prove for example that the verse about the Day and Night is in fact an explanation of the Big Bang theory.
Now have you read the Bible, or the Bhagavad Gita, or the Dhammapada? Read them. If you already have read them, you obviously didn't understand them.
Do you get the point? Every religion has a book that describes the origins of the world (each book in a different way) and sprinkles some moral codes amongst the justification of war, slavery, murder, sexism, pedophilia etc.
Your comment is an insult to the countless of hours of dedicated work done by thousands of scientists across the globe.
Hello Vlatko,
well, i just read your comment and im not surprised to your reaction on it. I answered some one who was also acting in the same way as you are right now, you are trying to sound smart and all knowing and it is you who is comparing books not me.
"You prove for example that the verse about the Day and Night is in fact an explanation of the Big Bang theory."
The verse which gives us the glimps or sign of the Big Bang theory is not the one you are talking about, so read carefully what and where have i posted the verse which deals with the perticular subject.
Its 21:30 which talks about or gives us a hint of the BB theory, it is clear to me coz i know my book, it is clear to many Muslims non Muslims who know how to understand a verse and its context.
Quran has the answer of many question, and also the question which science has known today. I dont need to put those things here once again as you are a cleaver person, you are defenetely aable to research yourselve.
"Your comment is an insult to the countless of hours of dedicated work done by thousands of scientists across the globe."
My comment can never be an Insult to any one, living or dead. I am not comparing Quran with Gita or Bible.
@911_was_an_Inside_Job,
If you know your book, that is good, keep it for yourself. No one is taking that away from you. But please don't try to put it under our noses, as a perfect or scientifically accurate. Many of us have already read it, amongst almost all other scriptures like: the Bible, Tripi?aka, Guru Granth Sahib, Ägams, Bhagavad Gita, Dhammapada, The Talmud, etc... etc...
That is what I call an open mind. I bet you'll never dare to read them. You allow yourself to be limited to only one book.
And yes, your comment is an insult, but you can't see it. Let me open up your eyes a little bit: it will be prove of your own ignorance and foolishness. You've just named a living man an ignorant and fool. I also bet your book is not guiding you to behave like that.
Im not here to go on this useless discussion, and im not the one who is puting Quran under any ones nose. I dont want you to believe in it at the seme time i would not allow anyone to insult it. I have read Bible, the new the old both, Gita and ramayana i grew with. So here you see who is open minded and who is not, who is assuming things who is not. I, in my entire life never ask anyone to believe in what i believe, nor i go and insult anyones believe. On the other hand you are coming out loud and claming that Quran contains lies, then you must also point them out so we all can see it. But as i can see you are simply unable to do so which means you are the one who is not telling the truth, you are one who is just saying thnigs you dont know yourself.
Open your eyes and try to get rid of the web of prejudice for a perticular person or comunity. Im not going and posting bible talks about this and that, coz if i want to do it i would find the way to do it too. Im not going out and claiming that Veda's and Gitas contains statements which are this or that. You are doing it so why dont you grow up?
Once again my posts are not here to insult any one rather to justify or to explain things. Im sure you would find so many things in the Quran which does not make sense to you, but does that make you the person to judge it coz you failed to understand it? No, it does not.
I have read books of many varieties, you dont know about it, yet you assumed me as a Not Open Minded Person. Does reading varieties of books makes you open minded? Thats the most illogical argument i have ever heard. Being open minded got nothing to do to with reading gita, ramyana, quran or bible, it has to do with understanding, being patience with the people around you, leaving the prejudice behind, to be impartial, to be just, to be honest to yourself and to others, to treat people fairly. These are some of the quality of open minded people.
I hope you are not gonna delet or block my account from your site, i really enjoy the docs and i really enjoy your work. Thanks a lot for leting me be here.
Take care
People need to open their eyes to Islam. As said in the Qu'ran (Koran) those disbelievers that say "we believe in Allah" during the end of the world will surly go to hell. Start believing now before its too late. Its all about faith. Some people will say "spare me the bullshit" and "religion is a lie created by people". These people will burn in hell if they do not seek forgiveness for their evil and sinful ways.
Sinning comes in all forms, i like to use being gay as an example. Its a choice, not natural. Because if you are saying its natural and someone was born gay then a gambler, alcoholic or thief is born this way. NO, not true, environmental factors will always affect a persons mind. Also there is no such thing as a "gay gene", this notion is incomprehensible, because if you are saying this, then how can this gene be passed down? And just like an ex-gambler, ex-alcoholic you can get an ex-gay.
Man invented religion....it was a man who wrote down religious texts......no human being has ever proven any God of any kind ever....name a human who can prove it....show me empirical proof...not hearsay....not old books...just the proof please...and it is interesting you saying " convert now before it's too late"....WHAT is THAT?
almost like a veiled threat just because others dont hold your view!! where is your conscience?
why not start searching reading from "old books". who knows u find a clue...
If your god is going to punish people for not believing in him, he should at least have the courtesy to come before every human when he/she becomes an adult and tell him what his expectation on that human being is. Then he can start watching and judging that person and punish or reward him when he dies. Instead we are made to believe that he appeared before someone 1400 years back in a cave and told him stuff which he passed on to someone else, who wrote it down and humans from that time on is supposed to believe and if you don't then you will be punished. I think you need to have a sh*t load of faith to believe in this cr*p.
Read Qur'an. it will give u all ur answers. and just to correct you He did not appear before any one 1400 yeas ago. instead it was the angel Gabriel who came to the Prophet(PBUH).
Why Iram, should I need to read the Qur'an (which is worth reading), when you seem to dictate to me what the Qur'an should mean to me before I read it.
Is that not between Allah and I?
Make no mistake the eyes of the world are wide open to islam and it is payback time for the slaughter of mankind throughout its history. What makes you think infidels will say they believe in allah when the world end? You people respect no other faith and the days are gone when your religion forcefully converted, raped, killed, ruled others etc simply because they were of a different faith and you talk of disbelievers committing sins. How do you explain muslim gays/lesbians (and yes there are plenty out there) and those that drink alcohol, gamble and so on. The arab world uprising is no coincidence so sit back and enjoy the bumpy ride. Make amends, be humans, learn to respect other before the world moves on from oil as all efforts will be seen as too little too late after that. Good luck and you will need it.
Dude think you're mixing up Christianity with the muslim religion, Muslims as a doctrine do respect other faiths, mainly Judaism and Christianity, they believe they are the same just that mohammed came after jesus. It was the chrisitians that slaughtered people of other faiths not the muslims, or have you forgotten the inquisitions and how faith was taken to the americas? learn your history a little. And before you ask I'm and Athiest. blaming one religion for wrongs it mainly didn't do doesn't help your cause.
also you can get an ex-muslim. ah no your book says to kill him/her sounds peaceful to me.....
i liked how the documentary ended.with the message of how people can use the interpretation to justify horrific evil and violance in the world but also can be used to incite peace and love. don't think it was pro islam propaganda at all, i enjoyed about islam from a non muslim perspective and with the plus side of not being preached at as you do with islamic perspectives!
Cristians in Pakistan Hates west More then Muslims. n don't talk about Religion u people don`t even knew how to treat Black a century ago and talking Sh*t about others, Don`t spread hate plz know your history first
forget history, the past has got no relevance in the present, evil must be destroyed and there cant be any tears for wicked men
really...arabs had slaves ...hate to ruin your day
@ Shah Gee
No religion whatsoever means a single, complete class of evil, gone from the face of the earth!
Eradicating Small Pox from the face of the Earth did not eradicate disease from the face of the Earth. But at least one horrific disease is gone forever.
Let's get rid Religion?all religion!
Religion = Blood
0z
Christians in Pakistan are part of an ignorant culture....oh yeah, it's Islamic!
The present world condition is nothing but a cactus plant with multiple thorns protruding from all sides. People if you see today it is the "muslim world" especially the middle-east part wherein you see the colonial power (whether u call it modern day crusade or call it just the hunger of humans for power & wealth) are looting and tearing it apart and unfortunately you have muslims staying in this region (if it was majority christians probably everyone especially the media would have labeled them Christian Jihad or Crusade..funny right how tables are turned in this world) and the muslims who are staying in this region have no option but to fight...it is altogether a different dimensional view what means they adopt(currently the Gorilla warfare...terror attack) however these are things which we are "Meant or Suppose to know and understand" what the reality might be is these terrorist might be individuals who are used because of their bad circumstances and therefore easy to get them motivated to do any such acts. Also it might be possible that Al-Qeeda or what ever sh*T kind of organization that have sprung up are actually MNC sort of Brand names that are popular & have high sale value & hence all terrorist acts are sold by these brands...wherein reality it might be the case of individuals fights against a global power...which ofcourse will look like a terror(as innocent people get killed) and indeed they are terror attack because these individuals have no unity, no government, no soverignity (who can voice their concerns) and they live in absolute Anarchy, an Anarchy situation that has been perfectly manufactured & I must say kind of perfected. In all this the bottom line is that we people whether whatever religion or sect we subscribe to are fighting against each other whether physically or verbally to just set to see that we can finally see a day when one of us will wear the noose of guilt...but I want to know whats next...how many of us will continue to do this to each other...IS IT UNTIL WE ARE JUST LEFT WITH ONE PERSON WHO IS ALL POWERFUL LEFT IN THIS WORLD - AND THE PARADOX IS WHAT RIGHT WILL THAT ONE PERSON WILL HAVE TO CLAIM AT THAT POINT THAT HE/SHE OR THEIR ORGANIZATION IS RIGHT!
And undoubtedly Islam has stood against this sort of system & Insha Allah will stand against this sort of system & abolish them and spread peace. Because to kill a system you need a system and Islam is the right system because the very foundation of Islam shun all difference between human beings and bring them all to one platform of understanding...that provides that very sought after Launch Pad for a better Human Being...the Super Man of Neitsche, the Type 3 kind of Human Being suggested by a Physicist Dr.Kaku and numerous other people who have actually en-visioned the true future of Mankind...
But today's situation is pathetic, I pray to Allah he uplift us from this state..give us strength to follow his Words...
islam is a relegion of peace ??? how is that ?? ok so why any terriorist attack in the whole world you will find only muslime people did it ... any body want to see what is islam just google and see christian coptic in egypt >> muslim killed christian in egypt they kidnap their womens they destroy the church and burned it .... the government try to open church in egypt and they couldnot because of muslim they said that they dont need any churches ..
islam means hate other people who dont beliefe in it .. <<>>>they just enter any country as a minority then become the majority because they can marry five hundred girls like this and after native people of the country will not find the place in there countries .. like exactly what happend in egypt . egypt before it was a christian country now it is a muslim country and the christian in egypt will disappear soon .
too bad islam is an off shoot of Christianity which its self is an off shoot of Judaism. they are all the same basic religion the only differences being jews dont believe in jesus or muhammed and islam is the only one who believes in muhammad. they all preach fundamentally the same things. and Christians have a history of terrorism as well( killing 90 of the natives of america, forcing the native people of the countries to convert or be murder tortured to death. the Spanish Inquisition, Portuguese Inquisition, Roman Inquisition, Goa Inquisition, the crusades, slavery of africans and natives. in fact basically everything in the history of Christianity is them killing or oppressing nonbelievers/ heretics. so i dont really see a difference. even today their are fundamentalist christians killing abortion doctors in america. Timothy McVeigh (of the Oklahoma City Bombing) was a roman catholic, hitler was a Christian.
old news but mostly it was because they disriminated against people because they didnt think they were equal human beings because they had the culture of savages. It does help to put things into context, it might have been wrong but maybe it was a natural reaction and had nothing to do with christianity which is about peace if you ignore the old testement which is not taken literally like the Koran is, Islam cannot claim to be a peaceful religion although it does make that false claim often.
@James del Valle
ahahahahahahahahahaha that's the stupidest answer i have ever heard.you sound like the extremist justifying terrorists actions that you claim to hate.
to this very day mosques get vandalized and Muslims are discriminated against and persecuted in America. i hear statements from chrstians just as ignorant and hate filled and disgusting as anything Muslims say. after 9/11 sikhs were attacked because ignorant american mistook them for muslims. france passed anti hijab laws. discrimination and mistreatment of others isnt only an islamic problem. and saying it is is ridiculous.
you are a joker Muslims get treated way better in the west than non Muslims get treated in the middle east, what do you think would happen to a minority western christian community in the middle east if christian fundamentalists had flown a couple of airplanes into mecca holy sites, I think you can see what I'm saying, nothing has happened to Muslims in the west which was not did in the name of preventing further terrorist attacks, you are a fool who has been sucked in by Islam because you think they are being oppressed all over the world when the reality is they are getting well respected in the circumstances after all what has Israel got to do with the west. Israel is the reason there is terrorism and it wont go away until Israel does, no muslim is on our side because they think we support israel because we dont oppose them enough, they dont oppose terrorists so we have a stalemate and that is reality.
@James del Valle
ahahahah you sound pretty eye for a eye to me, the opposite of what Jesus preached. For someone so opposed to the way they act with statements like "no muslim is on our side" you sound very similar to them. also when you lie and say things like "they dont oppose terrorists so we have a stalemate and that is reality." that's just ridiculous they don't support it either since their are billions of Muslims and the terrorist only number a few thousand world wide. Ive never meet a Muslim that support the actions of terrorists in my life. In fact its the exact opposite. if they were all terrorists as you imply we would be under daily attack here in the usa, which obviously isnt happening.
Are they terrorist if they start fire in their own contry? america invaded irag/iran. jews invaded palestine. Dont talk s*** man. the 9/11 was the illuminati. can you show me a terrorist attack? no 9/11. evryone knows it was the illuminati.
There is no illuminati, ignoramus. Besides, the proof that terrorism isn't because of the USA is this....Islamic terrorism in the Philippines, India, Indonesia, Russia, China, throughout Africa, Spain, England, Canada. In short, put Muslims somewhere and they'll feel they gotta bomb somebody because no one wants to respect their superstition, and especially their claims on the world. Finally, only the Muslims have stooped so low. Many people have been oppressed and even within the USA. But no one is so willing to kill the innocent as Muslims. The facts are what they are. Like it or not.
You know what is the root of all these ideas regarding muslims as terrorists?? JOURNALISM... most journalists lack responsible journalism.. the MEDIA started all these "Muslim a.k.a Terrorist" propagandas..
you can see the evidence when you watch or read news.. when someone rob a store and it happens to be he is a muslim, the headlines will be like this "Muslim caught for robbery" but if he is a christian, jew, hindu or etc. the headlines will be "Man caught for robbery" . . with this kind of information feed by media to the public, what do u expect of public reaction against Islam.. the media makes the public ignorant of islam..
the ironic of this 'terrorist branding' is when an Iraqi bomb an American military truck in Iraq, the American will spread the news with "MUSLIM terrorist bomb military truck!" How can an Iraqi be a "TERRORIST of his own country?" when at first place it is the Americans who are strangers in his homeland? Why do media need to place a "MUSLIM' word when in fact the main reason of bombing of that person is not directly related to religion. he is just fighting for his freedom against this 'foreign invasion'..
Is this responsible journalism? the media should be much more responsible in delivering unbiased and accurate information to the public??
??????? ??? ????
“Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those who say this are witless. Islam says: 'Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all! Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter their armies'.”
~ The Ayatollah Khomeini
The Story of Umm Qirfa
Umm Qirfa was an old Arab woman contemporaneous to Muhammad, the prophet of Islam. She belonged to a pagan tribe named Banu Fazara at Wadi Al-Qurra. This old woman who was also a chief of her clan was brutally killed when Muhammad and his followers raided her tribe and overpowered them. The incident took place almost six years after Muhammad’s Hijra (??????? Migration) to Medina in 622 AD.
Ibn Ishaq, the first authentic biographer of Muhammad gives us the details in his Sirat Rasul Allah:
Zayd B. Haritha’s raid on Banu Fazara and the Death of Umm Qirfa
"Zayd also raided Wadi-l-Qurra where he met Banu Fazara and some of his companions were killed; he himself carried wounded from the field. Ward b. Amr b. Madash one of B. Sad b. Hudhayl was killed by one of B. Badr whose name Sa’d b. Hudhaym. When Zayd came he swore that he would use no ablution until he raided B. Fazara; and when he recovered from his wounds the apostle sent him against them with a force. He fought them in Wadi-al-Qura and killed some of them. Qays b. al-Musahhar al-Yamuri killed Mas’ada b. Hakama b. Malik b. Hudhayfa b. Badr and Umm Qirfa Fatima was taken prisoner. She was a very old woman, wife of Malik. Her daughter and Abdulla b. Mas’ada were also taken. Zaid ordered Qays b al-Musahhar to kill Umm Qirfa and he killed her cruelly."
Ibn Ishaq 980
“And he killed her cruelly”.
The cruel method used by the holy warriors of Muhammad to kill Umm Qirfa is described in Al-Tabari:
“By putting a rope into her two legs and to two camels and driving them until they rent her in two....”
"Allah’s Messenger sent Zayd to Wadi Qura, where he encountered the Banu Fazarah. Some of his Companions were killed, and Zayd was carried away wounded. Ward was slain by the Banu Badr. When Zayd returned, he vowed that no washing should touch his head until he had raided the Fazarah. After he recovered, Muhammad sent him with an army against the Fazarah settlement. He met them in Qura and inflicted casualties on them and took Umm Qirfah prisoner. He also took one of Umm’s daughters and Abdallah bin Mas’adah prisoner. Zyad bin Harithah ordered Qays to kill Umm, and he killed her cruelly. He tied each of her legs with a rope and tied the ropes to two camels, and they split her in two."
Tabari Vol.8:Page.96
Ibn Ishaq continues:
"Then they brought Umm Qirfa’s daughter and Mas’ada’s son to the apostle. The daughter of Umm Qirfa belonged to Salama b. Amr b. al-Akwa who had taken her. She held a position of honor among her people, and the Arabs used to say, “Had you been more powerful than Umm Qirfa you could have done no more”. Salama asked the apostle to let him have her and he gave her to him and he presented her to his uncle Hazn b. Abu Wahb and she bare him Abdul-Rahman . Hazn."
Ibn Ishaq 980
An expedition led by Abu Bakr As-Siddiq or Zaid bin Haritha was despatched to Wadi Al-Qura in Ramadan 6 Hijri after Fazara sept had made an attempt at the Prophet’s life. Following the morning prayer, the detachment was given orders to raid the enemy. Some of them were killed and others captured. Amongst the captives, were Umm Qirfa and her beautiful daughter, who was sent to Makkah as a ransom for the release of some Muslim prisoners there. Umm Qirfa’s attempts at the Prophet’s life recoiled on her, and the thirty horsemen she had gathered and sustained to implement her evil scheme were all killed.
Saifur Rahman al-Mubarakpuri/ The Sealed Nectar: Page 152
It has been narrated on the authority of Salama (b. al-Akwa') who said: We fought against the Fazara and Abu Bakr was the commander over us. He had been appointed by the Messenger of Allah. When we were only at an hour's distance from the water of the enemy, Abu Bakr ordered us to attack. We made a halt during the last part of the night to rest and then we attacked from all sides and reached their watering-place where a battle was fought. Some of the enemies were killed and some were taken prisoners. I saw a group of persons that consisted of women and children. I was afraid lest they should reach the mountain before me, so I shot an arrow between them and the mountain. When they saw the arrow, they stopped. So I brought them, driving them along. Among them was a woman from Banu Fazara. She was wearing a leather coat. With her was her daughter who was one of the prettiest girls in Arabia. I drove them along until I brought them to Abu Bakr who bestowed that girl upon me as a prize. So we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her when the Messenger of Allah met me in the street and said: Give me that girl, O Salama. I said: Messenger of Allah, she has fascinated me. I had not yet disrobed her. When on the next day, the Messenger of Allah again met me in the street, he said: O Salama, give me that girl, may God bless your father. I said: She is for you. Messenger of Allah! By Allah, I have not yet disrobed her. The Messenger of Allah sent her to the people of Mecca, and surrendered her as ransom for a number of Muslims who had been kept as prisoners at Mecca.
Sahih Muslim 19:4345
That is Sahih Muslim I quoted, do you know it?
The True Story in Full: Here I give the full account as to what actually happened. Reading the accounts of the event given in both Sirat Ibn Hisham and Tabaqat Ibn S’ad will help us understand better. 1- Zaid bin Harith (RA) went on a trading journey to Syria and with him was the merchandise for Companions of the Prophet (PBUH). While he was near Wadi'l Qura' he encountered people from the Tribe of Badr of Fazara, whose leader was Umm Qirfa. They attacked him and his companions and snatched all they had of merchandise. 2- Some of his fellows were killed and he himself was carried wounded from the field. Zaid vowed that he would not wash his head for ritual purity (i.e. he vowed to abstain from sexual intercourse) until he fought the people of Fazara. 3- When he recovered from his wounds the Holy Prophet (PBUH) sent him to punish the treacherous people and ordered them to move by the night and rest by the day as a stratagem. 4- Zaid went and fought the Fazara in Wadi'l Qura, killed some of them. Qais bin Musahhar killed Mas'ada bin Hakama. Umm Qirfa, her daughter and Abdullah bin Mas'ada were taken as prisoners. Zaid ordered Qais bin Musahhar to kill Umm Qirfa and Qais killed her by putting a rope in her two legs, tying it to two camels and driving them in opposite directions until she was killed, ripped apart. (Tabaqaat Ibn Sa'd 2/90 & Sirat Ibn Hisham 2/617) In Sirat Halbiyya, another source they cite on this issue, it is clearly stated; “Zaid bin Harith went on a trading expedition towards Syria and with him was the merchandise for the Companions of the Holy Prophet (PBUH). While he was near Wadi?l Qura he met a party from the Tribe of Fazara of Banu Badr. They attacked him and his companions and snatched all that was with them (of merchandize).” (Sirat Halabiyya 2/192) 5- Further we learn that Umm Qirfa in her capacity of being the tribal leader plotted to harm the Holy Prophet (PBUH) in person (Ar-Raheeq al-Makhtum p.457). In Sirat Halabiyya it is stated that; “Zaid bin Harith ordered the killing of Umm Qirfa for she used to revile the Prophet, on whom be peace and blessings of Allah, and because she had prepared thirty riders from amongst he children and grand children and had asked them to attack Medina and kill Muhammad (PBUH).” (Sirat Halabaiyya 3/251)
Facts and the Lies! Now this clarifies certain points.
1- It was the Tribe of Fazara, which was headed by Umm Qirfa, who first attacked Muslims who were merely on trading journey. 2- They killed Muslims and took their merchandise. 3- Muslims made a counter attack to punish the trigger-happy tribe. 4- There is no authentic report whether Holy Prophet (PBUH) ordered her killing specifically. Infact it was Zaid bin Harith (RA) who ordered her killing as she was, being the leader of the tribe, responsible for all that happened. And we just read Zaid himself had seen their aggression and merely survived it. 5- Her killing was perfectly justified as she led her tribe to commit violence against Muslims. She was no innocent a woman and was rather a hostile enemy. 6- The manner she was killed was not ordained by the Prophet (PBUH) but was carried on by the people who had undergone the terror practiced by her men. It was a reaction by such people; nevertheless it goes against the mannerism taught by Islam. And though such a behavior is deplorable, it is Umm Qirfa herself who is to be held responsible for such a reaction. 7- No authentic report makes any mention of her head being brought to the Prophet (PBUH) and then paraded in the streets of Medina. This is a myth and a lie! The books these slanderers produce as a reference are no authority as they are not written by trustworthy people and no authentic report in any of the classical books gives even a hint to such a happening. The Daughter of Umm Qirfa: 8- Now coming to the daughter of Umm Qirfa. There are two reports and these liars refer to both of them. According to Sahih Muslim, she was given to Salama bin al-Akwa’ and then Holy Prophet (PBUH) took her from Salama and she was given as a ransom for Muslim captives in Makkah. While according to Sirat Ibn Hisham etc she was taken from Salama and then given to Hazn bin Abu Wahb and later bore him a son, Abdul Rahman. 9. She was not raped: According to Sahih Muslim she was first given to Salama (RA) and he himself reports: “…we arrived in Medina. I had not yet disrobed her when the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) met me in the street and said: „Give me that girl, O Salama!? I said: „Messenger of Allah, she has fascinated me. I had not yet disrobed her.? The next day, the Messenger of Allah (PBUH) again met me in the street, he said: „O Salama, give me that girl, May God bless your father.? I said: „She is for you. Messenger of Allah! By Allah! I have not yet disrobed her.? The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) sent her to the people of Makkah, and surrendered her as ransom for a number of Muslims who had been kept as prisoners at Makkah.” (Sahih Muslim, Hadith 3299) Now one can observe that Salama (RA) said that he had not disrobed her when they reached Medina and again when the Holy Prophet (PBUH) met him in the street he told that he had not disrobed her. And even the next day, after the night having passed, when he was again asked for the girl, he testified that
he had yet not disrobed her though she fascinated him. This is enough proof that Salama didn’t forcefully lay with her as it was against the teachings of Islam. Islam does not allow a man to forcefully have sexual intercourse with his slave woman, otherwise no could stop Salama from sleeping with a slave girl who fascinated him. And if she later gave birth bore Hazn bin Abu Wahb (RA) a son then it must have been by her own consent. We have seen the conduct of pious companion Salama (RA) and there is no reason to say that another pious companion Hazn (RA) would have violated the Islamic injunction and forced the daughter of Umm Qirfa into the intimate relation.
What is your problem you don't have to live by Shariah, is it because we submit to the One True Allah.
its because you are dangerous in your ideas and in your belief.
cuz only islam mistreats people"? ahahahahahahah to bad christians have way more blood on their hands,i.e. the crusades, the many Inquisition, the crusades, genocides in america, and africa. christianity was even used to justify slavery in america.
The question is not, "Is Islam violent?" but instead, "Why is the Arabian Islamic culture still so 'old worldly' and modernized? Why has Christianity not retained its traditions as purely as Islam; how has Islam done this? Is Islam wrong because its people and leaders excuse the violent methods by which people are executed, and the brutish treatment of women? Being violent, as some believe Islam to be, does not disqualify it from being a revelation and a traditions of truth. The violence of ancient, medieval, and modern Christians does disqualify the truth of Christianity as some have come to think. Religions are a philosophy, and philosophy is judge on merit of logic, meaning, and historicity. Islam is false because it was written by a lying talented man, who simply combined the religions of the era into his own philosophy and pushed it like a good salesman. As for my first point, Islam is simply 500 years behind Christianity, if you go back 500 years Christianity and its leaders were similar men, of similar terrible leadership. Globalization will speed up the Muslim modernizations, but not without much suffering and social strife.
Actually it is your argument that is thousands of years old. I believe that Moses, Noah, Abraham and Muhammad were all accused of been charlatans at the time they were receiving revelation. Allah always gives victory to the believers. And Always Allah has sent one message, There is no god but Allah and submit yourselves to Him.
@ Bilal Bruce Morpeth,
"Moses, Noah, Abraham and Muhammad were all accused of been charlatans" because they were all charlatans!(although I am not quite sure Moses, Noah, or Abraham, ever even existed!).
"...submit yourselves to Him."
Stop ordering people about! Who do you think you are, anyway?!
"Allah always gives victory to the believers."(?)
Now, then, what does "victory" mean? Usually the word "victory" is used in a context involving violent battle. Do all Muslims think like that? Is Islam all about force and battle; all about the victorious and the vanquished? I have always thought so, and now you seem to be confirming my suspicions.
Sounds like a really 'butch' religion!
In addition, I am confident you clearly remember once having written that lashings for an adulteress was a mercy! If you honestly believe this, then either you, or Islam, or both, are very sick, indeed!
No victory as they didn't go to Hell, which is wear you'd tell me to go if I continued arguing with you, but hey, thats not my nature. May Allah guide us all and go with peace.
@ Bilal Bruce Morpeth,
You are not, nor have you been, 'arguing' with me. Your responses have no logic whatever but are merely defensive in nature.
Also, I would like to know from you whether you are saddened over the 4000 Muslim state sponsored executions of gay men in Iraq since 1979.
Would you care to share your feelings?
Do you have any feelings?
@ Bilal Bruce Morpeth,
"...submit yourselves to Him."
Bruce, I have asked you once, and I am asking you again, please do not issue orders to me, alright?
Everything I have said I believe, Removing open adultery, pornography and deviance like homosexuality from the society are a mercy on the innocent.
All your arguments have been heard before and countered successfully by people who are more sincere and better in character than me. My feelings, well when I was at the Mosque yesterday and the Imam said that no one can be guided or misguided except by the will of Allah and that we must strive our utmost to convey the message of Islam, I cried, so yes I am human, with feelings, thank you. I cry in my prayers to for people like you to be guided.
I fear no one but Allah and if anyone tries to stand in the way of His message, they face their own ruin.
Everybody submit yourselves to the only True Power Allah.
My man, this "submission to the will of god" doesn't exist for you are still a sinner.Your prayers doesn't change you , you only believe it does.Your religion might change your acts but it can never change who you are*sinner*.Oh yes, you can't blame your sinful acts or thoughts on the "devil". Evil is your free will.If you see God as perfect ,you can't put sins in levels and measure them; they are all the same in the eyes of god.
Your insane! why is it that muslims like yourself ram this crap down peoples necks! Why does your friend Allah see the need for you to go round telling people to "submit" I don't belong to your faith or any other. Religious people always see themselves as superior to others when in reality they are the weak, they read a book and think God come to earth with a pen. When are you and other religious nut jobs going to shut up and stop spreading this crap!
Modern Christians disqualify the truth of Christianity, but it does not disqualify the truth of Christ. The message of Jesus is all about peace and love and forgiveness. How religious entities incorporate violence into the fold is beyond me, but I have a hunch that it is mostly due to the concept of hell and man's inability to solve he problem of evil. Since man could not find a solution (he failed to ask God) then came the wrath of God and the idea of eternal damnation. Christ did not mention hell in the context in which people think, he was speaking of the 'Lake of Fire' within, not some actual place where there exists a great torture chamber. The Bible is full of contradictions; Jesus asks us to forgive our enemies--- while God condemns His, whom are we supposed to believe? One cannot believe both. A good example of this was the old law of loving your neighbors and hating your enemies; what if your neighbor IS your enemy? Which law applies.
'God HATES a coward,' ' For I am a jealous God,' these statements are totally illogical; God hates nothing, the devil is the one who hates. Envy is a sin and is obviously a deficiency --- a perfect being is utterly devoid of any deficiency of any kind. Unfortunately the Good Book was partly written to control and brainwash others, without the writers even knowing it, some 300 of them. Jesus spoke of 'soul evolution' and reincarnation, but this equalizes everyone and Constantine wouldn't have that! The hell concept completely complicates people's understanding of forgiveness and tolerance, the concept is his ace in the bag.
Many Christians cannot believe in reincarnation because they do not understand Christ's message, they do not want to forgive and actually have no right to call themselves followers of Christ. When Jesus shunned those who claimed to know him and serve him by saying, ' Flee from me, I never knew you,' it simply means that really they do not know him, so how could they serve him if they never knew his true nature?
I believe it says in those rules we can quote scripture, so sorry admin you are wrong:
Quran 3:43 O Mary! "Submit yourself with obedience to your Lord (Allah, by worshipping none but Him Alone) and prostrate yourself, and Irka'i (bow down) along with Ar-Raki'un (those who bow down)."
Quran 3:20 (Yusuf Ali), "So if they dispute with thee, say: "I have submitted My whole self to Allah and so have those who follow me." And say to the People of the Book and to those who are unlearned: "Do ye (also) submit yourselves?" If they do, they are in right guidance, but if they turn back, Thy duty is to convey the Message; and in Allah.s sight are (all) His servants."
Quran 36:17 (Mohsin Khan), ""And our duty is only to convey plainly (the Message)."
Sorry admin but, I am only trying to convey the message, our religion is not of compulsion. You said I could quote scripture and Allah tells us to submit to him. I only convey His message.
@ Tom Rabbitt,
I cannot answer for you your excellent questions.
However, I do wish to point out one important error in your comment.
"Religions are a philosophy,..."
Actually, Tom, no religion is, nor ever has been, a philosophy.
Religion is a scam.
This is one very interesting opinion!
I totally see why you can declare Religion to be a philosophy. Philosophy IS a persuit of wisdom.
To millions of people this pursuit requires a higher self to show the way. a GOD. A religious person looks at perfection as something unattainable but venerable. A religious person is forbidden to say "I am GOD". A religious person may believe in "superhuman Jesus", Allah or GOD the all mighty but never believe he/she may be God it self.
To an atheist this pursuit remains in the physical realm, in the provable, explainable. Life is explained by the 5 senses. God doesn't exist and we are but a fart in the cosmos.
As an energetic spiritual person. I have serious doubts that this reality exist or the one that i experience when i am asleep. The real me is somewhere between those two worlds.
The awaken me functions in a tangible world, a world of money, scientists, wars, religious centers, shopping malls, the pursuit of the beginning or the end. Always going in either direction, not realizing only the middle again is irreal/real.
The sleeping me is free like a magician, There are no limits to the expression of the IT living the dream. It is the pursuit of the pursuit for the pursuit of no end no beginning.
Who am I? Am i GOd or not? I am the composite of the physical and the ethereal of my Self. What else can being be?
the middle and the surrounding
I live in a donut as a dough nut.
That is the snake bitting it's own tail.
az
500 years ago? is that why most American Christians dont want sex-ed to be in school? they like condoms or abortions? the average American wont vote for someone who is not a christian. most American Christians are Creationists. Look at the justified violence done in the name of america they framed the war on terror as a new crusade implying a religious aspect to the wars we are still in.
I wish your mom had taught you not to call anyone a liar unless you have enough proofs of it. And Muslims don't need an enlightenment like Christianity. They will be 500 years ahead of the world if they returned to the same Islamic way of life which they practiced till about 900 years after the revelation of the Holy Qur'an. And the Muslims had their glorious days in those centuries when all the scientists rose from Islamic World. And the Muslim empire reached even Spain. But the christian world was dark and ignorant. They stole Muslim science and built it on and started to call it their own creation.
Hey.
There is a mistake in the introduction to this documentry ..."the word of God and his prophet."
That is incorrect as it is Allah's Speach. The Quran was revealed to The Messenger of Allah through different means over the 23 years of his Prophethood.
As a side note- I won't be responding to any uninformed and negitive commenets. Thanks.
Hey.
Well, if we wanna be really precise, then we should say: it is the word of Muhammed, who then said it was the word of a god who spoke to him. Then you are free to believe it or not. Right?
Beautiful Documentary, we need more of them to dispel the widespread lies created by the western media (to steal american interests i.e, oil and weapons industry)
4,000 lesbians and gays have been executed since the 1979 Islamic revolution. Methods of execution include; beheading, chopped in two, stoning to death, burning alive, and being thrown alive from a high building
wow so for over 1400 years the koran hasnt been altered a single time? i find a miracle in that
Not a single letter has been changed. Do you want to know if it's God's word?
Actually that's not historically correct. There were at one time several versions of the Koran -- there was a call to destroy some variations -- and some stories that had been written down were lost.
@ Abe Jones,
Thank you, Abe, for the clarification.
@ metalmaji,
4,000 lesbians and gays have been executed since the 1979 Islamic revolution. Methods of execution include; beheading, chopped in two, stoning to death, burning alive, and being thrown alive from a high building
@ James_May, I find a lie in that.
disapointed in this series. they missed many opportunity to point out flaws and fallacies in the koran. Rather showing them as possible truths. very disappointing.
I guess youve read the Koran?
I have.
It's garbage.
all myth no logic makes Ali a dull by ...
islam makes a lot of fantastic claims for itself,however modern science dispells its many claims,a brief read of the hadiths will show you that muhammad was a meglomanic pedophile warlord that invented islam for his own ambitions,you only need to look at the 1941 kaaba flood photographs to see that they worship a powerless rock other than a supreme allah
Muslims dont worship the rock.
If the Kaaba wasnt there Muslims would still worship in that direction. Its a symbol of unity.
Muhammad (pbuh) was just a man.
If you want to see "ambitions, meglomanic, pedophile, warlords" they are described in the Koran.
Look up the Pharaohs of Egypt.
They claimed to be "g-d on earth".
do you believe that the Phoraohs were mistaken as being ancient aliens, I believe the idea behind all religions arose from alien visitation in the past, there is a lot of evidence to support this theory.
@James
Angels like Gabriel and Michael could be classed as Aliens.
The Koran says that we as humans are more powerful than Aliens/Angels. It says there are many other worlds.
@James and far far: You've hit on a subject that I have long-contemplated.
Let's say --as science often likes to speculate-- that there are many more advanced species than our own occupying this galaxy; and that there exists a race of beings capable of traversing hundreds, thousands, or even millions of light years distance... Well, if you could do all that just to come have a look at a race of primitive, upright-walking monkeys, wouldn't you want to hang around for a while? Maybe mess with their heads a bit; occasionally fly down and perform a few "miracles"; or even plant a half-breed in their midst, calling himself "The Son Of Man"?
Food for thought.
Muslims dont worship the Kaaba or the rock.
They would still worship in that direction if it didnt exists.
Its a symbol of unity. First house of G-D.
Its like saying when you pray in a Church you are preying to a building.
@ far far,
4,000 lesbians and gays have been executed since the 1979 Islamic revolution. Methods of execution include; beheading, chopped in two, stoning to death, burning alive, and being thrown alive from a high building
? did you even watch this documentary, you don't belong here.
If Allah is all merciful --- why do Muslims still punish and stone people to death? I'm a Mystic Christian, I believe all Bibles have things to say of great value. But things like stoning someone to death for adultery is hypocrisy. I find most Christians and Muslims to be hypocrites; they talk about peace and love while they justify killing at the drop of a hat. If someone commits adultery it is bad enough, but it really isn't anyone's BUSINESS but the sinner's, the spouse and God(Allah). It's another trick by Satan to control people and trick them into exacting cruelty.
Stoning someone to death for Adultery is a mercy to a believer and an expiation of their sins. Do realize that in order to stone someone they need to of either testified against themselves 4 times or there is 4 trustworthy witnesses who see the act of penetration. All of this has to go through Islamic courts. I remembered seeing something disgusting on a Jerry Springer show, it was called I am pimping out your girlfriend, where the guys best friend sold his girlfriend at a cheap hotel to a line of eager men for a few dollars ago, while he watched this on a big screen. That does not happen in a society with Shariah.
Consider the following:
1. Adultery and fornication is just using one another to fulfil one’s passion and desire. A human being should be respected and not just used. In marriage, there is loyalty and commitment.
2. Adultery/fornication either leads to illegitimate children who feel a sense of immorality in their entire life. They will lead by the example their biological parents set for them. Adultery/fornication may lead to abortion if the partners do not wish to have a child. That is murder.
3. Adultery and fornication that leads to a person having multiple sex partners. That is the cause of Aids and other epidemics.
I read that a woman came to the Prophet and said I have committed adultery and I want the punishment of God.
The prophet questioned to see if she is aware of what she accusing herself.
She insisted and she said I am pregnant.
He said then go and take care of your pregnancy. (that is 9 months)
After she delivered she brought the child and she said I am ready I want to be cleansed.
He told her go and breast feed the baby (that is 2 years)
The woman still came back and said the child can now eat food and I am ready for the cleansing.
Now you see the contrast.
No one followed or caught the woman, she came to admit herself
The prophet was giving her an excuse to go and not come back because she was not restrained or imprisoned not monitored she kept coming back on her own accord.
There are no record of policing and spying for sinful people trying to catch people at fault in their private life. None what so ever.
Punishment only applies if a person is declaring their sins in public (this is a universal rule)
All other privacy infringement we hear about are all blown out of proportions, false or non-Islamic in nature but culture.
I understand that laws are necessary, but ' Let he among you who has not sinned cast the first stone...'
Punishment isn't necessary but correction is. Sin is a tragedy, not a slight against God. Until the world realizes this it will remain the way it is. You are using excuses to 'defend' God, don't you see that He sees through your lie?
I would rather be guilty of adultery than murder. Cleansing? Cleansing is when the soul has evolved into a higher state, this cannot be done if the person dies before doing so. This 'sinner' is your brother or sister and you will find yourself guilty before Allah because since you cannot forgive --- you will not forgive yourself. It would be better to give the person a chance to repent like the Prophet did with the woman. It is good she wishes to be cleansed, but the Prophet likely saw that she was in reality a masochist.
What many like yourself don't understand is that one cannot (unless they are the Messiah) evolve spiritually in 1 lifetime. I can tell u that in the future there will be a new 'unreligion' which will sweep the world; Christianity and Islam are not getting the job done. The Messiah will come again when the time is right, but not until then. Although I am a 'Christian' I do not believe in the idea of a church and power structure, where Satan sifts in --- wherever there is false power he is there. However, a 'council' will be formed involving Christians, Muslims and all the main religions where debate will revolve around eradicating beliefs and half-truths which only hurt the 'School' for the sake of the world's future. The world is a school, we must take care of it. I do not like people telling lies about my brother and Father in heaven.
The purpose of this world is CHANGE, latching onto antiquated beliefs which cannot stand up to scrutiny only leads to folly. People are not bad, but bad IDEAS make people bad.
If you wish to debate, please get back.
May peace and love be upon you...
Islam's judgement's are not passed by simple human emotion. You should watch the documentary the Arrivals to see who your real enemy is. After all shouldn't obedience to Allah be our life's priority. No I don't want to debate, it is not encouraged in Islam and can cause hate. So I just say Ameen to your last words.
@Kman, give me just one word that say we should stone people to death, just one word taken from coran...just one !
the law in coran for adultery is 100lash for maried people and half (50) for no maried people. its a hard punishment, i'm agree, but its not "dead" punishment !
please, please please, dont read any thing and say its from islam !
The Quran says to obey Allah and his Messenger, can you give me one Ayat in the Quran, that tells us how to make ablution? No. .. Thats why we have the science of hadith. I suggest you read up a little bit more.
May Allah guide us.
4,000 lesbians and gays have been executed since the 1979 Islamic revolution. Methods of execution include; beheading, chopped in two, stoning to death, burning alive, and being thrown alive from a high building
There is no True Islamic Shariah in the world at this time.
It was a Shia Islamic revolution, remember that.
stop spamming
@ Bilal Bruce Morpeth,
a) spamming ~ I hardly believe that the calculated state sponsored slaughter of 4000 gay men can possibly be overstated, and I am very sorry for you that you do. I pity you.
b) stop ~ I do not take orders from the likes of you.
c) "It was a Shia Islamic revolution..." ~ That's right, Bruce, blame it on the Shiite's. They're not REAL Muslims. I wonder what Shiites have to say about that. Typical! When faced with the truth, make excuses and blame it on others. Coward!
d) "There is no True Islamic Shariah in the world at this time."
WELL, I AGREE WITH THAT!!!
e) "Bilal Bruce Morpeth, Embraced Islam in 2002,..."
Don't complain to me about it!
f) Bruce, you forgot to express even the slightest sorrow for the thousands of young gay men slaughtered(by the Shiites). Since converting to Islam, has your heart turned to stone? I guess so.
Typical!
____________________________________________________
"Stoning someone to death for Adultery is a mercy to a believer and an expiation of their sins."
You are sick. VERY SICK. Please, Bruce, I beg of you!
Steer clear of civilized people.
____________________________________________________
"May Allah guide us."
Please, Bruce, do not swear at me. Thanks.
ReligionIsGood, looks like you know how to copy paste from google haha, niceone...fail.
A common condition nowadays.
REad it over again ......they drove you out first.......then you gain the upper hand to regain whatis originally yours. Muslims are not enjoined to attack peaceful ones.
This is not a historical investigation but a pandering to believers.
Did Mohammed really talk to God or was he like so many cult leaders we see today? He was successful because he was ruthless and clever in battle, a master at mind-control techniques ("blessed is the name of ..." etc), and he had the historical good luck to find two empires about to expire.
Just because a lot of people follow him proves nothing of a religious nature. If you are born Muslim you must believe or suffer dire consequences.
Mohammed(pbuh) didnt talk to G-D.
"in Islam G-d reveals only his will, not himself"
Its an important fact.
Its the idea that if you look you can see the order, the creation or the "force".
I think you need to look up the definition of the word fact.
This is all supposition.
@Abe: He basically said: "It is an important fact that in Islam, G-d reveals only his will, not himself." There is technically nothing wrong with that statement.
if the texts are not clear and offer so much room for interpretation as to be mysterious and labyrinthine, what is the point of having a book. it forces you to cherry pick and 'interpret' the text based on your own intrinsic morals - which means making moral decisions outside of the 'sacred' texts. which negates the necessity of the book in the first place.
The bible says you should not suffer a witch amongst you, and the koran says to kill those who will not convert - however most chrisitans and muslims don't run around looking for witches or blowing up heathens. they have decided for themselves that killing other people who are not like them is wrong and go against their 'sacred' texts in order to be more moral and humanist people.
You are completely ignorant about Islam and the Koran. You really need to read more. No where in the Koran it says to kill anyone. You are looking for an excuse to trash religions.
Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out"
This verse was intended to urge the people of the new faith to stand up and fight back the oppressors as they were not allowed to fight in the first 13 years.
I am a Muslim and I have studied my religion very carefully. You can fight only who fights you and after the ruler has declared war on them and only the people that are in the army for the fight .
I can not go and kill anyone for any reason other than in self defense or to protect one's family or property. You seem to have bad intentions to begin with and you pick and choose certain verses cut off from the whole chapter to use as your evidence for your point of view.
If you intend to really learn the truth about this religion or any other, you will find a lot to learn and appreciate. I would like to know if you really want to learn the truth or just playing games.
it actually does lol many times
The intention of the written word is often lost on it's reader.
It is written that in the end days, many will believe only in the material world. Do not let that anger you. These things must be. It is not for us to judge them; for we ourselves are no closer to the truth in what we believe. How could we be? We have not the capacity to understand God.
well, no matter what the book actually says, it doesn't stop muslims from killing others, does it. same with christianity :/
But this is only a problem of people not religion. Failing to understand religion and apply it as should be is the cause of these problems you refer to and this was predicted by the prophet many years ago. Well, you can start with these facts.
Islam is the fastest growing religion in the world and the
fastest growing religion in the US. Shortly after the 9/11 tragedy the number of converts to Islam in the US quadrupled, you may want to double check this, and in the UK the number increased from about 5000 a year to
over 60,000 for that year.
This is only when people took the time to find out about this religion, they were pleasantly surprised. They do not see this religion as a threat to this country or any one. Again, I will go to the end of earth trying to explain this religion to you or any one interested.
Then you make your judgment based on the truth not falsehood. You may like it or not, but you will base your judgment on what it is and not what they say.
Sieben your words are an epic fail, christains were burning witches for centuries and possibly the only reason it doesnt happen today is because athiests wouldnt tolerate it, it is athiests who maintain the balance and prevent religion from destroying us all but we can all be destroyed completely by religion during this century easily, ill be surprised if there is no nuclear war during the next 100 years.
I'm confused - what source can you site that says that atheists stopped the witch trials and the inquisition?
the point of my comment was to say that even religious people make moral decisions about their religious texts using external sources of morality and ethics based on communal values. if you HAVE to cherry pick what is in the text, you are using another moral compass to decide what in the text you follow and what you do not - therefore doing this negates the necessity of the book in the first place.
A very good documentary that gave me an informed, invaluable understanding of Islam and its present struggle to adapt to modernity in the face of its reactionary, fundamentalist minority, who are resistant to change. A similar path that Judaism and Christianity passed through.
minority may not be true, what if the fundamentalists are the majority, the jury is still out on islam, far far points out that other religions are protected by Islam yet in Saudi Arabia it is illegal to practice anything but Islam even in your own home, who are the fundamentalists? the keepers of the book seem to be just that.
How are we to know? Which way do we gamble? Would you want them in your community if <1% of them were extremist fundamentalists wanting to kill you and you could not tell the moderates from the extremists?
Even the US state security dept. states that the fundamentals of islam constitute less than 1% of the 1.6 billion muslims.
Saudi Arabia is a retarded country that doesn't have anything to do with Islam. Just because Islam was founded there doesn't mean that a government who rules there (backed by USA) represents.
That's like criticizing democracy by analyzing the corrupt system in Greece.
Sam thats the craziest statement I've ever heard, all Muslims take their instructions from Saudi Arabia, also most modern reverts are wahabbi, of course the west dont class the saudis as fundamentalists otherwise politicians could expect a severely premature end to their political careers after the Saudis crash the economy of the guilty offender by withholding oil or messing with supplies for everyone. If it wasnt for the black gold the Saudis would be top of the USAs and the UKs hitlist because they are messing up our society massively with their teachings, Saudi Arabia is drawing a wedge between the Muslims and the west for which the purpose of requires guesswork but logic would be a better and easier method of determining why they are doing it, just look at what this teaching does.
The big secret of the Koran is that its the book the Bible should have been!
The first part was a good introduction to the Koran and history of Islam.
The second part starts talking about the crusades and then Jihad. A bunch of Muslim apologists appear in between pictures of Osama... horrible...
A religious doc and no ping pong match between Achems and CnN...what's wrong with this picture?
az
It is not about Christianity. CnNs chosen faith and Achems chosen target.
No subject is a too distant for those two normally, all they need is one to start. Wait for the vacation to end, you'll see!
I am not complaining, i think they are very entertaining and i think they think that too.
az
I really don't like to watch docs like this (I read the comments first and usually let it pass unwatched). It's pro Islam sounds like; not interested at all.
I have seen that most religious people are more critical of other's religion than atheists are, which is strange since that is exactly what religion condems while supporting it. All religions have many things in common.
Why would you not be interested if religious thoughts is what your life rest on. Don't you think you could learn a thing or two or may be even change a thing or two?
I bet you anything if Achems had made a few comments here, you would have given equal replies.
Which is good....tells me you enjoy your discussions even though they are miles apart.
az
Az:
I sometimes don't comment where Achem's comments out of not having watched the doc, etc. or lack of interest, believe it or not. I don't enjoy documentaries that are blatantly pro-Islamic for personal reasons best not stated online.
However, atheists may reject all religions, but Christians KNOW there is a truth to spiritual matters and that is why "religious" people are so furvent for thier beliefs. I'm sure people would point out other religions are equally convinced of their truths. Time will surely tell.
But, I would say that atheists are just as dogmatic about destroying all faith, like Richard Dawkins, the ACLU, etc. They aren't polite as I tend to be when I address even Muslims. You can't even pray over your lunch at school with the ALCU bringing a law suit nowadadys. Now tell me that's not militant hatred, please, that even "religous" people cannot match----99.9% of the time against Christians.
Peace to you.
Charles B.
@az
"I have seen that most religious people are more critical of other's religion than atheists are" . i believe you are right to a point. while religious people are more critical of the actions of other beliefs they usually stay clear of actually criticizing the writings for out of fear that those same arguments can be used to discredit their own beliefs. as an atheist (a huge minority but gaining ground) i can only speak for myself but with the exposure of religion i grew up with (mostly christian). i had to base my feelings towards others more on who they are as a person and not their faith. or i risked disliking almost everyone around me. the large religions have an easier time excluding other beliefs and still having a social circle. to end with a quote that explains it better than i just did.
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you
dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." Stephen Roberts
@over the edge
I don't call myself an atheist or a theist, although if an atheist is to not follow any religion than i am an atheist for that meaning. I do believe GOD can be something he isn't for any religion. I do believe there is more than a lump of skin, bones, and whatever Science think i am made of.
There is a "creator" as much as i am "created'...although it is still a mystery, i tend to think i am both the creator and the creation itself.
GOD is not above, under, besides me, it is me, i just don't know to what point yet.
az
@az
i have read many of your posts and while i don't share your beliefs i rarely feel the need to try to dispute them. i consider you spiritual as opposed to religious and even tho i consider Charles religious i will say to you what i say to him. if your beliefs make you a better person i have no problem with them. unlike some others i do not hope for an immediate disappearance of religion (or spirituality) . the vacuum that would be created would cause more damage than good in my opinion. but i do hope that the influence of such teachings diminishes and eventually disappears. if god is "within" you all i ask is that you keep him there
@over the edge
Are you suggesting that people should not state their own opinion? Does this only apply to Spirituality or what? I have never attacted anyone based on their beliefs, i do not care if what people believe or think is not in my line of thoughts. It is very easy to skip over them, all you need is a finger on an arrow.
The fact that you don't share my beliefs is necessary for you to be you, same for i.
az
@az
i knew as soon as i posted that it might be taken that way. my bad and apologies. to be more clear everyone is entitled to have and share an opinion. i meant that a belief system should not be forced on others or injected into unrelated topics. and other then suggesting science look for god you haven't been forceful with your beliefs
No religion will find what GOD is. All religions claim they already know what GOD is and proven everyday in one way or an other that they don't.
It leaves it to science to clarify. Is GOD god? Or can GOD be what it is not? Why not? Isn't that what we do, search until we find?
az
"All Religions"? Or merely: "All Preachers"? ... Because my religion says that we can never know God. Or rather, I should say: "the book says", because I claim no particular religion (pretty much for that very reason).
All religions base their idea of what GOD is on old translated and/or interpreted books. Were those words interpreted the right way and does it matter?
We are in 2011....let us use everything we know as of this second...and come up with a more meaningful GOD. One that may put to rest religions and allow independent spirituality to bloom.
az
I'm not sure that I comprehend the difference between religion and spirituality. The idea of a "spiritualist" always struck me as a someone reluctant to commit to any specific belief - possibly for fear of being mocked. Yet, mocked ye shall be, for any consideration other than the politically correct. Nowadays, that only requires the mere mention of the "G" word. 1000 years ago, the situation was the exact opposite. The tide may turn yet again, should science prove not to be the savior everyone is looking for. Time will tell.
Az: That's doubole talk. Yes, we can surely and truly know God, but we will only know him and find him when we search for him with our whole hearts as the Bbile says. Selfish seekers and the half-hearted need not even attempt it.
As far as a standardized belief system, I think the measuring stick is who we say Jesus Christ was and is (my personal opinion). Nonetheless, no two people fully believe or understand alike, so there is some room for "grace" in the belief system, but narrowly--as Jesus himself said that "narrow is the way that leads to live and few would find it". That passage of Scripture has always truly saddened me, but it's prove to be very accurate indeed I'm sorry to say.
Peace to you.
its pro Islam for sure but there are severe weaknesses within Islam which have been highlighted, its worth watching.
Ok. I might as I have time. Thanks!
it seems the Koran has a split personallity, it says in this Jews and christains are people of the book also but it also says in the Koran not to take christains and jews as your friends, ive heard later verses which got revealed to Mohammad cancel ones from before if their is a contradiction, how much of all this dirt on the Koran is true and how much has been invented by the Jews to gain support for their aggression in the middle east?
Christians, Jews and many other religions of the Abrahamic faith are specifically protected in the Koran/Islam.
Although there is a general rule about love in the Bible are other faiths protected?
"Verily, those who have attained to faith, as well as those who follow the Jewish faith, and the Christians, and the Sabians - all who believe in God and the Last Day and do righteous deeds-shall have their reward with their Sustainer; and no fear need they have, and neither shall they grieve." (Quran 2:62)
The question of befriending depends on their belief and acceptance of your own belief.
explain why it is illegal to practice anything but Islam in the home of Islam Saudi Arabia, this video makes a good point in saying that people are misinterpreting the Koran but when the message which is said to be given (in video) contradicts the reality of what is happening in the real world, what then is the truth to be based upon, reality in the physical world or what people claim the Koran really means in their opinion.
I wonder how many ppl who have commented here have actually watched the documentary.
Probably more than have read the Koran.
I will tell you what is hilarious, and at the same time present you with a free lesson in reality. Islam is just another religion. All the "wise" people on here trying to denigrate Islam are simply unmasking themselves - because what you fail to mention in your words of wisdom is that IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH RELIGION YOU ARE REFERRING TO. ALL ARE IMAGINARY. Denigrating one insinuates that you know of a better one - which I know for a fact you don't - which will make you the butt of my jokes ;)
By denigrating Islam, you demonstrate your underlying racism only. All religions are similarly guilty, and trying to argue that any given book or prophet or god is "unworthy" just makes you look like the ignorant $#%@ you are.
If you want to make statements about specific religions in public, I suggest you harden the $%#@ up and be prepared to be ridiculed. Because all religion is BS, and by choosing one, you expose your small minded religious tendencies.
History looks something like this:
The Jews stole from the Zoroastrians, Jesus stole from the Jews, Mohammed stole from the Christians, and the Muslims invented the scientific method. There is no revelation.
Thanks for listening.
Hope you don't mind me putting my two cents worth in. After reading your entry, I really couldn't help myself. I agree with you that all religions are imaginary, but if you denigrate one of them, how exactly does that 'unmask you'? Surely all of them are worth denigrating! Since these posts are related to the documentary about the koran, it stands to reason that this is the place to denigrate the koran. When you say that denigrating one insinuates that you know of a better one... well, how's that? I denigrate Islam. That doesn't mean I think there is a better religion. Nor does it mean I am racist. Those are absured claims. If you really mean them, please back them up. Does it mean if I only denigrate christianity I am racist? Against whom, exactly? Your thinking is faulty on those claims - I think because you were blinded by your heated emotion. So, it's okay for you to ridicule those who ridicule the koran but not okay for those to ridicule the koran? You must either still be a muslim or you once were a muslim and you don't know how to think straight! O
He's something of a troll who likes to argue about every statement anyone makes. You are, of course, correct in your reasons as to why the comments on this doc concern Islam and not religion in general. Read his previous posts which you will find to be contrary in nature but unenlightening.
for over a thousand years people have been warring and fighting each other and so much suffering among tribes and nations across the earth, all over differing interpretations of one single book.
and the name of that book is.
'Beyond Anger, A Guide for men - how to free yourself from the grip of anger and get more out of life'...
.............
They dont fight over books they fight over loot and the power to tell the illiterate people whats in the books! So they understand how to Respect Authority and so they can be told what they are fighting for! Laissez Les Bon Temps Roulez!
I am sorry but I know many, many angry women. And I don't think Cleopatra and Catherine the Great encouraged their armies to take up yoga.
I tried to read the Koran (supposedly a good translation from a university press). I have previously read many religious texts and a lot of atheistic and anti-religious books as well. I put "The Holy Koran" down after it became impossible to decipher - never have I read so much gobbledygook, honestly in my life. The thoughts were incongruent and scattered, the phrasing was mysterious and there seemed to be no point to it. This is the kind of book anyone could take and mean anything by it. Not that people don't do that with the Bible, too but the Bible is at least readable and has stories with a beginning, end and supposed moral to them.
Love to see someone comparing the validity of religious books. So counter-intuitive its insulting!
Bible beginning: God did it.
Bible ending: God did it.
Moral: Fear God.
I don't think religious extremists care about your idea of manners.
but in the process try to have some manners. they go a long way.
at least until those respected and benelovant people create an established beauracracy which undermines another voiceless and powerless group, and the process begins again.
in every religion there is someone who proclaims a new idea, which threatens an already ruling class, and struggle ensues, people are persecuted and blood spills.
I think there is more truth and more to learn from this process and it's repetition throughout history. if this phenomenon is studied with diligence, urgency, and benevolance by respected people then I think humanity can go a long way.
Yeah, until somebody accuses them of being religious nuts.
Mohammad was a pirate. He raided caravans, raped women, paid mercenaries to do his dirty work while he himself received one fifth of the total booty. He was a pedophile. He married Ayisha while she was six years old, rubbed himself sexually on her thighs until she was nine and then he consumated the marriage.
Wow imagine that 1500 years ago. The newspapers and press must have been horrified.
Believe me - you don't want to know what YOUR ancestors were up to 1500 years ago.
Get a brain.
What Kim Bruce noted is true and your personal attack on him doesn't change the fact that Mohammed was a military leader masquerading as a religion and had no problem wiping out entire communities of Jews and foreigners, a nasty habit Abu Bakar mimicked. I doubt Kim Bruce's ancestors were quite so notorious.
I doubt either you OR Kim Bruce have any idea what life was like 1500 years ago, because you demonstrate your lack of perspective and education by targeting a particular religion's ancient beginnings. If you had a clue, you would realise that the BEST you could hope for was your ancestors were murdering brutes themselves - because if they weren't, they would have starved - and you wouldn't exist to sprout your "knowledge" on the internet.
This is a public space, and you are targeting other peoples religion. If you want to partake - then harden the $%#@ up and stop being so precious.
What do you think his new brain would provide you with?
az
Probably a valid perspective.
Either that or a brand new comedy routine.
Mohammad was also suspected of being an epileptic.
rofl.....and your point is.......?
Einstein was probably autistic, as I suspect Jesus also was.
Even worse, your ancestors used to eat body lice.
His point is: Epileptics with temporal lobe seizures are prone to hallucinations, a relatively important item, if true, in someone in a position as a religious leader with a supposed direct line to the Almighty.
Just between you and me - I think it is safe to assume anyone who has a direct line to the Flying Spaghetti Monster is completely bonkers.
Are you trying to assert there are OTHER people around who DON'T have epilepsy but DO have a direct line to the Flying Spaghetti Monster?
Because that makes you bonkers.
Again dead-on Dead_Head
az
There is a certain type of mold that grows on Rye grass. Rye grass is a staple in the middle-east. Middle-eastern religions make an awful fuss over holy bread. Someone might want to look into that further.
The Qur'an, like the aHadith and Sira is a load of crap written by a pschopathic narcissistic madman who had a messiah complex. Mohammad tried and failed to sell his ideology to Arabs, Jews and Christians of 7th century Mecca for the first 13 years and failed. So he fled with his life and a few folowers to Medina. When he came back to Mecca he had an armed force and began slaughtering anyone who refused to believe in his ideology.
If i didnt belive in any book from god which the koran. I would go steal i would go and kill people i would go torture people i would commit every crime and take every drug thats is avilable but guess what stopping me from all this my Religon :)
@ 01bad2dbone
If you need a book to tell you right from wrong then you are seriously lacking in intelligence. I have never needed any book or religion & I have never stolen or killed or tortured anyone. You've got me with the drugs though. lol
Ya, but he's #1 bad to the bone! lol
az
Dude dont do drugs/carry or they will stomp you and take all your money then tell you its your fault and you sould be sorry it took them so long to set you to right! Hello using drugs is like saying the holocaust did not happen it's code for get him!....Laissez Les Bon Temps Roulez
lols well then you are what is known as a "psychopath" - and no book will ever cure that.
I have no religion, or book - and I don't steal, kill, torture, take drugs or commit crime.
So how about keeping your mental healths issues to yourself, and stop trying to force people to do things your way - not all of us are crazy and need an imaginary god to help us understand the difference between right and wrong.
good play! lol mho
az
i agree but imagine if u lived in anciente time with no education i will garantie u would do bad things thanks to religion we r here without religion no marrige ...............................
@01bad2dbone...and the cops.
watch the documentary on uganda gay people.... it shows how power and religion can push the buttons that would get almost any legislation passed.... if it was not the koran.... somebody would write another book.
I read this book at it doesnt make sense, I dont know what the fuss is all about with the Koran, as fairytales go i would put it somewhere between the wizard of oz, and alice in wonderland. Not worth reading tho :->
This is not restricted just to this religious book. The bible (old and new) is just as bad.
Moderators, please remove my ID. I didn't realize that signing in with FB would allow a link to my FB wall. Thank you.
@ Cheryl Nagele Chambers
If you click on the DISCUS tab above you can change your profile, so that this no longer happens.
Everyone's privacy is their own responsibility, welcome to the internet Mrs Chambers. lol....
rofl ppl like you should be forced to get a license for the internet.
In many ways it very similar to the Bible & it is equally irrelevant today. They both show a view of the world as it was seen around 2000 years ago & both were used to try to answer the questions that we now have the answers to thanks to scientific discoveries. Both the Bible & the Koran have been used as much as a political weapon as they have for religious spirituality. Neither still have any relevance in these modern times. It is time that we all moved on from these outdated myths, secular Humanism is the only way for Humanity to progress.
no u are wrong. there is no such thing as secularism when ur economy (lifeblood of a civilization) is run on talmudicjew practices like usury, rent etc. both islam and christiaity forbid such practices to avoid economic disasters. why do u think our economy so unstable and hit by crisis every 7 years? answer: zionist bankers :D
typical. blame the jews for everything. yes the jews control it all thats right, you keep believing that.
hilarious how anti-semitics have used conspiracy theory to hide their racism.
Yes I vas der juwes definately der juwes. I vood elaborate but mein boots are needink der polish.
@StillRV, you guys are pretty funny tonight!
az
Terrible quality :-
Spare me the details. They lost me with the no booze rule, and anyhow who would want 4 wives are they #$%^in crazy. If they would have said 4 girlfriends that would at least sounded reasonable.
Zatarra the way you like to confront people constantly, you're possibly lucky if you can keep one girlfriend, 5 would probably have you in a bad position, two holding your feet and two holding your hands and one holding the knife in the midddle...lololol
az
this may be a bad joke, but it is a joke!
az
I NEVER SAID I WOULD WANT 4 And 5 is not even legal in the koran god even knows better than that. In america the first one might ding you in the head with a .38 cal while u sleep if she catchs you. Im just sayin where this is praticed women have no rights so why bother to marry any of them because it aint fooling anyone but themselves.
Crazy woman^
@Psinet
i play for i
to win the dot
and dispose the words
in the middle
of a long harmonious phrase
az
Interpretation of those old books is what keeps religions going, is what keeps division happening, is what keeps peace constantly for tomorrow.
Not until we throw the old books away will we be able to start a new beginning.
How can we go on believing something written 2000yrs ago when we can't go on following our own past perception of right and wrong from day to day.
az
This almost seems like pro-Islam propaganda. I dunno.
NO WAY! THE KORAN IS PRO ISLAMIC PROPAGANDA???
omg that means the bible is...and the torah is....omg my brain...
lame! all organized post pagan religion is pyramid power; the creation of Islam was a retort to the intended genocide of rival pyramids-Anglo European greed. The alleged need for protection from pagans by Islam is especially lame. a true God would have tried to help them at that time.
pagans were turned into a dysfunctional culture of addiction, crime and mental illness because their culture was destroyed by pyramid genocide and slavery. In 1400 pagans were a mass of dysfunction beyond repair because of Christians and Jews, the slave traders and prison economy people. Now, all of the people on this planet are polarized ready to kill everyone, most of all, the gun toting Christians of Southern California, the industrial/economic Rome of the 21st century.
my people design weapons systems and manufacture them were I live for perpetuity's sake. I have esquire at the end of my name, I am at the top of the pyramid you would think, but no freedom is in my life and injustice via tyranny can affect me in my life as easily as those at the bottom of the pyramid.
the solution is using this system to change itself. it alleges it worships truth and justice. time to put your words into effect and stop the duplicity. honesty and transparency have to start because of the internet. if not, the people (corporate widgets) are gradually going to lose motivation and this thing will just be too slow to work. we do not have to fight this time, just lay down. make them be honest with us starting very soon.
we did not need a prison economy here, the civil war created it though, now it is here to take over
AS a muslim, I am amazed watching this :D
I'm not saying ti's not a good documentary (especially by their standards); I'm just saying that The History Channel has never provided a "perfect" guide to anything. Overselling a bit there, guys. I would take a Nova doc on the same subject over a History Channel one any day.