Paradise Lost: The Child Murders at Robin Hood Hills
Paradise Lost is a 1996 documentary film directed by Joe Berlinger and Bruce Sinofsky about the trials of three teenage boys in West Memphis, Arkansas for the murder and sexual mutilation of three prepubescent boys.
The boys on trial for the crime are: Jessie Misskelley, Damien Echols and Jason Baldwin, also known as the West Memphis 3.
Despite a lack of any significant evidence indicating that they are connected to the case at all, the three boys are charged and tried for the murders.
A common theme throughout the film is the treatment of the boys based on their appearances and tastes in music, possibly as a Satanic ritual abuse.
During the course of the filming, John Mark Byers, the stepfather of one of the victims, gives the filmmakers a knife which has blood in the hinge.
The filmmakers turn the knife over to police, who examine it; the DNA is similar to that of himself and the boy but the evidence is nonetheless inconclusive since the DNA evidence produced was fragmented and can not provide concrete links. Other evidence is lost. All three teenagers are convicted.
The film was followed by a sequels, Paradise Lost 2: Revelations (2000), which suggests that further evidence was missed or suppressed and attempts to prove Echols' innocence, and Paradise Lost 3: Purgatory, which tells the complete story of one of the most notorious child murder cases in U.S. history.
@Christina Noel "I wouldn't hold my breath...(snip)"
Wow that is disgusting news, he came across as a goblin during the trial but now you say he has just given up on justice for the 3 dead boys!? That is monstrous!
What happened to those poor kids? Sure the Stepfather has come across since as seeming guilty, but why? What was his motive for mutilating those boys? Did he do it alone (or at all?)? The first thought I had was that he would make the next perfect patsy for the police whether guilty or not but to hear they closed the case is just sickening.
Also wondering has anyone seen the newer doc called West of Memphis ? I think it came out in Jan. I was looking on here but no luck
This is a great doc, I recently read the book Devil's Knot and it gives alot more information that you don't see in the doc. I believe these boys did not commit the crime. There seems to be a lot of slopply police work done, for an example when they guy was bleeding in the resturant washroom. They took a swab of the blood but the sample is missing they couldn't find it to test it for DNA. Just seems the police were in a real rush to arrest anyone to give the community a safe feeling.
Also in the book Byers story doesnt add up, hes all over the place I saw he has a book out he had someone write it for him, I havent read it yet but the reviews state he just uses it to blame others and lash out at people.
I like to know what is going on with his wife Melissa case in the Devil's Knot it was quiet interesting when they give some details into it.
where can i watch iiiiiiiiittttt'? Donde puedo verlaa,quiero saber que paso con damien !what happened with damien?did they get out of jail?
They were released from prison in August 2011.
It's an HBO documentary. You have to subscribe to HBO or perhaps an online video store like Netflix.
The justice system is just terrible. Those boys did not do those murders and it's just stupid that they go after them just because they dress in black and this the heavy metal. I'm 34 and I listen to heavy metal but sure as hell I don't have urges to go and kill. That's is the stupid excuse from the police and their lawyers where just lazy bas*$rds. I get tired of hearing that when kids murder it's because of the music they listen to or how they dress. Just Bullsh*t
i agree
Ohhhh, sorry, i saw that they are released , so i was right just by what i see (body language) what they say and my 6th sens(If scientist can say so) and those parent side advocates for the three boys.
Thanks for spoling the end dude
To me, those 3 boys did not do that. So pathetic to see people lie to prosecute just because they want a check-box checked.
Did anyone else hear him say "I got a dwi after my wife was "murdered"? I thought he said he had no idea what happened to his wife, that he thought it was her addiction.
Really struggled with this doc, had to keep looking away but unfortunately caught glimpses of things I'd rather not have seen. Freaked me out a lot! Am I supposed to form an opinion on whether or not the boys are guilty ?, well I just cant do it - too much emotional manipulation and scant facts. I'm in two minds, the lads are odd to say the least but then why wouldn't they be? I couldn't look at the photos of those little boys and ever be the same again, why would they cope any better? They are so much younger than I. Got to agree, the step dad is strange. Checked out the latest and they were released from prison on a deal, innocent? maybe, but they had to admit that there was just cause to find them guilty. And the new DNA evidence from two of the step dads found at the scene only confuses me more. Going to have a hard time sleeping tonight, almost wish I hadn't seen it .
hahaa guest,that was kind of funny,its true,this movie is really deep,it makes us feel like this is really important to know the truth.i just want to see the part 3 cause i want to know what happens at the end...did damien and jason get out of jail?
yes they did.
Yes they got out but NOT before the justice system screwed them up the rear one more time! Under some dumb ass statute they had to plead guilty but verbally state their innocences before a judge. And under that same stupid statute they had to forgo their right to sue the state for unlawful imprisonment. I'm from Arkansas and the whole trial was an embarrassment from start to finish. Makes me ashamed to even admit I live here!
someone out there knows who killed those three little boys...that stepfather was very odd in how he was carrying on he had the demeanor of a person that is wanting to do harm or murder someone...its wicked what they did whoever did this...those teenagers should not be targeted because of the music they listened to or wearing certain colors thats ridiculous but obviously they are innocent since they were freed...how many others that are innocent that did not get a second chance.. but who does not get a second chance are those little boys....Peace
the prejudice that convicted these three young men is horrible. but the real absolute victims are these three children. i think it was the step-dad. chris byers' mother believed it was him. but she is responsible too. she knew how badly her husband was treating her son. and yet she let it continue. she allowed him to believe that he had the power to punish or hurt her son with impunity because she wasn't going to do anything about it. poor soul, i am certain whether she is in heaven or hell she regrets that now. think about the fact that her husband did not even call her at work to let her know her child was missing "i didn't want you to miss work" or the fact that his best friend can state he was missing in the search for the boys that night for at least 45 minutes. or that the entire neighborhood was aware of chris' fear of that man. and the knife. his grandfather's knife. found in a drawer with the step-dad stating he had taken it from the child as punishment. yet chris never told his mom? maybe because he knew the mom would do nothing as she had always done. or maybe because it wasn't taken away until the night that sweet child -- those three sweet innocent children -- were killed. stop talking about religion except to pray, or hope or concentrate that the real killer will be caught. and that he hasn't hurt any other children since.
Hi Molly..
Think you're all little bit confused. The man you are referring to is actually Terry Hobbs, Stevie Branch's Step Father not Chris Byer's Step Father. All those facts you mentioned attribute to him, not John Mark Byers. Terry Hobbs left his wife at work only telling her 4 hrs after Stevie's disappearance he was gone.. he took Stevie's pocket knife and now Pam Hobbs believes he was capable of it... And you you are right there is an incredible amount of suspicion over the head of Terry Hobbs. But he was never questioned at the time of the murders. Who knows if there is enough evidence now for anything further to happen in this case.. Stupid WMPD...
i have not dout in my mind the the stepdad have somting to do with the morder he acts to suspitius and he is the more active out of all the parents and none was acsualy his kid and is extrange the he was the one how figth with the victim and hur the victims by spanking him with a belt befoure he die and teh police never cuestion that to beginh with thats iligal and agains the law to hit your kids or enyone elses and the hes wife kid was the olny one mutilathed plus how to the kids new demian,jesse and jason did eneybudy have make that question?,becase to be able to capture 3 kids with out nobudy notinceng it have to be somone the kids new and trust,is obios the ware kild somewere els and the esthepdad acts wire wen cuestion abut the murthers and hes posible involment in it and al around him the way he acts and stuff like way is he so proconvivting this kids so bad he makes more noise and more scandle the the patherns of eney of the kids hi is to determin to no let the supost murders free we sems to worrie the if they are free the may catch the real killer i wander why?, and the police they concil and misplace evidence and ignore it to on porpost it sems just cuse they escru up on tings and now they dont want to look bad so thats why they actin that way wich is suck and is rong convicting 3 inocen people just for there personal interest plus if the evidence was mis place,lost and theper with dont that make all the veidence in the case obsolite thats wat the law sade and dirent the cops how temper ,lost o misplace the evidence suposto be facin chargeres for that?,this case have way to much of negligence and iregularitis and rong doins is good the this 3 inocent people are now free and able to probe there inocence and hopefuly the cops how did rong wet punish and they cut the killer and also if the stephdad have somtnig to do whit it the he get the punish ment he deserve
a question that has never been raised: if mark byers was the murdered boy's step father, how could the dna on the knife he gave the filmmakers come up as either being the boys OR his?
I still havent seen this doc so I am still going by the tv show I saw on it the other week. I remember there being something said about blood on a pocket knife the kid owned but the way the whole thing was talked about came across in a confusing manner to me. Maybe it was poor editing because it was like all of a sudden they were in the middle of this discussion about a knife as if it was something they had been talking about all along. Gotta find time to watch this doc, I have 4 or 5 of them bookmarked to still get to.
As for your comment you make a good point, your DNA should not in any way have similar markers as your step fathers. When I do get a chance to watch this doc I am going to pay attention to that part and what exactly they say. I remember them saying there was very little blood on the handle so maybe both of their blood is on it, thats just a blind guess though
As I mentioned below the step father seems a little dodgy to me,
I dont know,but do you remember he took the lie detector?how to say in english,is it lie detector? Well,he prove his inocence there,but for me the zoloft and antidepresives that he was taking took control of his emotions so he could "act inocent"
It wasn't OR it was both. Both the stepson and his stepfather had their DNA in the hinge of the knife. Is the stepfather guilty of the murders? Who knows!
I've followed this story for a long time and even tho they had to plead guilty i'm so pleased they have been released, the state isn't going to admit fault so rather than say "we f--ked up" they made the deal so they couldn't be sued. If Judge Laser had any doubt that these men were guilty it wouldn't have gone this far and he definitely would not have let them go free. Damien has always said he was a smart ass when they were on trial and was naive, he believed that if you are innocent then they couldn't convict you but that was not the case. If they are guilty then they have fooled so many people but deep down i believe they are innocent and i'm so glad after 18 years they will b able to clear their name outside prison with the people that care about them.
I saw a show on I think ABC last week about this case, it was something like 48 hours mystery or one of those types of shows. I rarely if ever watch those shows because they are usually crap but this one was pretty well done and since they made it from the view point that they were innocent I was skeptical. It was slanted towards them being innocent but they did try to point out the cops and prosecuters side a bit too. I dont remember specifics but I do remember they screwed up some pretty basic crime scene rules like say maybe cordon off the area and check out all the footprints found.
The one kids step dad ( I think it was his step dad or mother boyfriend anyway) certainly seemed to warrant a closer look after (years later unfortunately) the neighbour and her daughter said they saw him at his house with all 3 boys in the afternoon, he still says he was never there. I think the neighbours said they waved to him or said hi or something, they did for whatever reason wait a very long time before mentioning it (they also said the police never went to their house when they canvassed the neighbourhood) which seems kind of suspect to me. Anyway I think I will bookmark this page and give the doc a look later.
Maybe Damien said that because he had given up. When all was lost and he realized there was nothing left to live for, he sought some refuge in an a day dream. Nothing deeper than liking Gangster rap, Horror movies or comic books. You can't convict somebody for thinking it's cool to be the boogyman. How many Freddy Kruegers do you see on Halloween...he was just a child too.
damien just have a dark humor, he cant be blame for that : )
This is just the tip of the iceberg. Innocent people have their lives stolen from them by our unjust "justice" system every single day. Consider this:
We have 5% of the world's population within our borders yet we have 25% of the world's prisoners. We have more people in prison that any other country in both per capita and total numbers.
Land of the free indeed...
All three of them accepted a plea deal today that unfortunately required them to plead guilty in exchange for release on time served! It's in no way justice for the victims but it's a start - these three should never have been convicted. It's up to Arkansas now to do the right thing, and find who really did this.
I wouldn't hold my breath. I'm from Little Rock Arkansas (I'm embarrassed to admit that) and that prick of a prosecuting attorney has stated on the record that the case is closed. He said as far as he was concerned the murders where already tried, convicted, and released. Some people simply can't admit when they are wrong. I'd love to see him falsely accused and sent to death row! Just desserts for the unjust! What an asshat! Not you, the prosecuting attorney!
After watching part 2...There is something going on with that Byer's guy. He is a freakin' lunatic! He has so much rage and hate in him even so many years later. When the question of the bite mark comes into play with Byers, he lies and says he had them BEFORE the kids were murdered. We know by watching the movie that they were still relatively new when this was shot. BACK TO THE BOOK THE DEVIL'S KNOT.... it states that Jesse talked more on the way to prison. They claim he told them more details and here are just a few statements taken from the book: Jesse claims they were drinking that day and smoking marijuana. The 3 teenagers were in the water when the boys drove by on bikes. Damien grabbed Michael and Michael's friends started hitting Damien. That's when Jason and Jesse grabbed the other 2 boys. I won't go into the gross details but he said that's when Jason castrated one of the boys. Blood flew everywhere! Jason threw the dismembered part of the boys body up in the weeds. Afterwards, Jesse left. He threw a bottle of whiskey under an overpass. He told them the brand and who bought it for him that day. They called the woman who admitted she gave it to him, same brand. So the prosecutor goes to look for this bottle which he finds...... OK so why did they not find any of that blood that "flew everywhere"? Why did they not find the body part in the weeds? This all happened in the dark, in the woods, and we're supposed to believe that they cleaned the crime seen up 100%? YEAH RIGHT!!! They need a new judge!! According to the book the defense attorneys were not allowed to admit HALF of their evidence into court. They were shot down every time! And look at BYERS who is caught in so many lies and now his wife is dead! Give me a freakin' break! Get a new judge, a FAIR JUDGE! And get a jury who aren't brain washed by the bible!
I read the book Devil's Knot and was convinced these 3 were innocent. After watching this first documentary I now wonder about Damien Echols. I remained convinced of his innocence all the way up until the end where he said and I quote: "I knew from when I was real small that people were gonna know who I was, I always had that feelin'. But I just never knew how they were gonna learn. I kinda enjoy it because now even after I die people are gonna remember me forever. They're gonna talk about me for years. People in West Memphis will tell their kids stories. It'll be like, sorta like I'm the West Memphis boogieman. Little kids'll be lookin under their bed before they go to bed Damien might be under there." SERIOUSLY? I have to wonder about that one. And I'm sorry but even though I thought they were innocent, they all had a deep stare when the camera was on them. They stared out into nothing, yet they seemed to be a thousand miles away lost in thought, as though they were in deep remembrance of something strong enough to tear themselves away from their own trial. While I'll admit that the evidence against them shouldn't have convicted any of them, and that the police seemed to have been on a witch hunt, Damien's statement at the end was very disturbing to say the least! Three young, innocent boys died and he thinks it's kinda nice because he gains notoriety from it? How sick is that? And I do understand that saying that and actually committing those murders are two different things, but no one in the right mind could possibly agree with his statement. Let alone admit it out loud. Sure, we all want to be famous, known, or however you want to put it, but who would EVER in their right mind want to be remembered for something so horrible? One answer: serial killers.
And for those of you who are not familiar with the book I mentioned in the beginning, one juror admits as to why Jessie Misskelley Jr was found guilty. The juror said that the confession may have been coerced, they can't say one way or the other. BUT Jessie admitted out of nowhere one little detail: he chased one of those boys down and brought him back. THAT is what convicted Jessie. There was no need for that statement, yet he admitted it of his own free will. The police gained absolutely nothing from that statement alone.
capo,look, everybody likes attention and they were very young,so in that moment they got attention,the were heard so that gave them some sense of security and power.I still thinks damien is very dark person,he has something that seems very different,like a very dark humor and some arrogance ..but im not convince that he is a murder yet.
thats the thinking that put an innocent child on death row.
Oh please, give me a freakin break. They where all three KIDS! Teenagers say and do some dumbass shit because they believed what they are taught, to trust in the justice system! In a perfect world Damien should have been well within his rights to act a fool, grin at the camera, dress like a satanist, listen to heavymetal, and even take credit for a crime he so obviously didn't commit and still be found innocent due to the lack of substantial physical evidence. But this isn't a perfect world and our justice system is seriously f--ked. Let leave Damien Echols alone, he has been through enough.
I read the book Devil's Knot and was convinced these 3 were innocent. After watching this first documentary I now wonder about Damien Echols. I remained convinced of his innocence all the way up until the end where he said and I quote: "I knew from when I was real small that people were gonna know who I was, I always had that feelin'. But I just never knew how they were gonna learn. I kinda enjoy it because now even after I die people are gonna remember me forever. They're gonna talk about me for years. People in West Memphis will tell their kids stories. It'll be like, sorta like I'm the West Memphis boogieman. Little kids'll be lookin under their bed before they go to bed Damien might be under there." SERIOUSLY? I have to wonder about that one. And I'm sorry but even though I thought they were innocent, they all had a deep stare when the camera was on them. They stared out into nothing, yet they seemed to be a thousand miles away lost in thought, as though they were in deep remembrance of something strong enough to tear themselves away from their own trial. While I'll admit that the evidence against them shouldn't have convicted any of them, and that the police seemed to have been on a witch hunt, Damien's statement at the end was very disturbing to say the least! Three young, innocent boys died and he thinks it's kinda nice because he gains notoriety from it? How sick is that? And I do understand that saying that and actually committing those murders are two different things, but no one in the right mind could possibly agree with his statement. Let alone admit it out loud. Sure, we all want to be famous, known, or however you want to put it, but who would EVER in their right mind want to be remembered for something so horrible? One answer: serial killers.
And for those of you who are not familiar with the book I mentioned in the beginning, one juror admits as to why Jessie Misskelley Jr was found guilty. The juror said that the confession may have been coerced, they can't say one way or the other. BUT Jessie admitted out of nowhere one little detail: he chased one of those boys down and brought him back. THAT is what convicted Jessie. There was no need for that statement, yet he admitted it of his own free will. The police gained absolutely nothing from that statement alone.
everyone is so messed up in this movie!! why is it ok for three 8 year olds to have no supervision!! I have two children and they were never out without me !!we went to parks and we went on walks,not one parent says hey there are bad people in this world ,and I want to make sure my kids are not hurt??
Your comment says it all!! The only person who could of possibly had those kids in their custody is Byers!!!
The system is a disgrace. I can't imagine the amount of innocent people that have been convicted or put to death over authority figures not wanting to lose face. It seems victory rather than Justice is the real aim
Byers so did it. The medication he was taking is the only reason the polygraph said he was telling the truth. The mark is an obvious bite mark they do not want to go by that because it is going to make them investigators do the job right and Gitchell like he said go out with a win. Well go out with a false win because no of them want to look at the real evidence.
Would I ever consider applying for Green Card? Erm..., NO!
byers killed his son.
Omfg really? Blame the 'strange kids' Byers along with some of those cops need to go to hell. Its obvious why Byers' stepson was more mutilated than the others. Poor kid was beaten before he died for trying to break into his own house. He wasn't allowed to have a key. Oh and the biggest point was his teeth! Kinda suspicious that he had them removed after the trial huh?
They really need to not refer to bite mark evidence as "100%" or "scientific" it's very contentious, and it's not nearly as good as DNA evidence. I don't know what Turvey is talking about.
I cannot believe what i just watched in these two documentries! how a person like byers is aloud to walk the streets guility of that specific crime or not is a tragedy in its self. Its the oddest case i think ive ever seen. Nothing seems to sit right....so many things brushed away and not talked about. you would think any good investigation team or court system would be looking further into a lunatic like byers???? none of it makes sense!!
I've never seen such a mish-mash of a documentary in all my life. Is that really how the N American justice system carry on at court? I couldn't make head nor tail of the whole thing. There seemed to be so much missing, and so many things overlooked. I wouldn't like to give a judgement on this case.
The only good thing about chronic liars is that eventually they get their lies mixed up. At 11:13 in the sixth clip Beyers said he believed his wife died as a result of her addiction to Dilaudid, implying an overdose of a narcotic. Right around 11:26 in the same clip, Beyers said "I got a DWI right after my wife was murdered." When talking to his two friends prior to this he stated that he went through a period when he was aggressive and violent and looked for fights, such as the one where he lost his teeth... During the polygraph, he stated differently when asked about harming other people. Beyers was, at the very least, complicit in all four deaths and the act he was putting on for the cameras was not only unconvincing, it should have sent a clear message to the investigators. Quite a travesty of justice here, with the murderers still loose.
if the prosecution are so confident that they got the right people, why have they fought to NOT have a review of the evidence and new dna testing on previously not tested items. wouldnt they want to stop the rumours and finally put it to rest. unless there is something to hide of course.
One of the craziest pair of documentaries I think I've seen... at points it becomes almost surreal and I had to keep telling myself that these are real people and not actors in a mockumentary. Byers, what a nutjob, and how is he not a zombie on all those meds?
Going by watching the documentary. From what I seen and heard, There was insufficient evidence to charge any of them. I feel very sorry for them, And dont know why they never appear angry they are holding it all inside.
"I got a DWI after my wife was killed"
the mother in the red dress....what is she doing cracking jokes about this whole thing?
I alway knew they are innocent
Click the link above to get information on the case. This has evidence showing the 3 were guilty.
Bwahahahaha the fact that you call Dale Griffis a friggin doctor and expert destroys your so called "evidence" right there!!!
Been there, done that, and your WRONG.
i agree with typolotyahs, but on the other hand John Byers says his wife was "murdered" on the lie detector test!! and the investigation on the bite marks is pure suspect!!
Another Documentary where they go to a place in the country and search for the most messed up people they can choose in order to make sure those are the only people they show on film. It is done to put forth a certain stereotypical view that people in the city like to maintain about people in the country.
So they can keep you thinking that we are all ignorant, bible thumping racists.
Fact is, the clothing the music and other things have nothing to do with why the boys may have murdered. Also no one here knows for sure that they are innocent and no one knows who did it simply based on the content of the documentary.There is not enough evidence in the film to prove or disprove innocents. I wonder how much content you didn't get to hear with this film? Based on the fact the filmmaker failed to show anyone who doesn't fit the city stereotype of what he wants a hillbilly to be, I would say he also left out other vital content, but that is obvious so I digress.
If you form an opinion based on this film it makes you as ignorant as the people they put in the film.
We people down south know that the media and filmmakers tend to seek out the ignorant when they come here. Those are the only people they choose to put in their films they never show you those of us who do not fit the stereotype which they would like everyone to believe. Those of us who do not fit that stereotype would be the majority. You will find the same number of ignorant racists and bible thumping people in any large city you go to.Probably even more in the most populated areas.
Higher populations equate to higher numbers of ignorant racists and mentally challenged human beings. Commonsense would tell you that. So you keep making your statements about rednecks and trying to feign intelligence by chanting discriminative stereotypes while at the same time acting exactly like those you call ignorant rednecks.
I mean the words "ignorant rednecks" are words used when you meet a person who is country and who bases his or her opinions of people no on the way they look and talk right.Or maybe even on the music they listen to.
So when you use those words and base your opinion of the entire population of a place on the very few you have been exposed to who were hand picked by a film maker and you dub them all to be stupid hateful and religious extremists you too are exactly like the people who actually are ignorant rednecks.
Read The Devil's Knot. All the evidence is in there. This book was written by a journalist who took all of the evidence, watched the trial, and reported impartially. You will see that these trials were a joke!
TYP, your issues with the media's portrait of southerners may have some validity, but it has nothing to do with the tragedy of this case. Go get mad at the producers of the Beverly Hillbillies and the Dukes of Hazard, because when you're attacking this film, which is about real injustices, you're way off base.
Get your facts straight. The boys were not murdered based on THEIR clothing or choice of music. It was the 3 teens accused of the murders that were judged on their clothes and choice of music. I've watched and read every single piece of info available on this case and I am a hillybilly from Arkansas. They were found guilty by a bunch of blood thirsty yahoo's who where just dying to convict somebody.
John Mark Byers did it...case closed!
mark breyer should write lyrics for slayer. he's awesome
what's worse than being a christian?
being american and christian..
I was thinking the same thing!
where is the defense?
they offer no objection. they could be a lot more vocal.
I cant believe the prosecution is asking him if he wears black.
its a complete witch hunt..
Nice town. I have a feeling that IQ's there are room temperature. No small wonder they can't solve the case. I think the real murderer is half-way to China by now.
i just thought the parts that were SUPPOSED to be funny WERE funny thats all. like where the father of one of the accused kids pulled his rotten tooth out with his wifes eye lash curler. And no i dont think that women in short skirts should be raped but those kids were out in ass rape alley. everyone in these parts knows that if you go skipping through ass rape alley...BOOM someone with rape you
I would like to have the rest of the episodes that the sound was deleted on.
@chris
Wtf is hilarious about 3 young kids getting raped and murdered? And as for saying because they were out in the woods they were asking for it, i suppose to you with your warped thinking pattern that women that go out in short skirts are also asking to be raped.
It was hilarious! kids shouldnt have been out in the woods your just asking to get raped and have your garbage hacked up
Eminem - Desperados
i just got this wrong wikipedia
"The following day, when the victims were found, Bojangles' manager Marty King, thinking there was a possible connection between the bloody, disoriented man and the killings, called police twice to inform them of his suspicions. After the second telephone call, police gathered evidence from the restroom.[14] Investigators wore their same shoes and clothes from the Robin Hood Hills crime scene into the Bojangles restaurant bathroom, conceivably contaminating that scene. Police detective Bryn Ridge later stated he lost the blood scrapings taken from the walls and tiles of the restroom.[15] A hair identified as belonging to an African-American male was later recovered from a sheet which used to wrap one of the victims.[7]"
soo im confused, didnt the second court thing with the dental pathologists prove that the round marks on the body werent human bite marks? or did they prove that they were bite marks?
i think its very sad that people were trying to say Mr, Bryer was the one who murdered those kids. yes when i first started watching the movies i thought he was really strange and eccentric and seemed a little suspicious, but as the movie went on you could really see that this man really cared for his wife and son, and seems to be a very passionate and emotional person. people who are serial killers , according to my knowledge, dont usually display such emotion and passion for anything, because they cant. well if they are a sociopath they cannot, and in my research most serial killers are.
initially i thought the 3 teenagers were wrongfully convicted. it seemed that there wasnt enough evidence. but when you put it all together, to me they kindof seem guilty, Jason looked really nervous and refused to answer some of the questions relating to the crime, he also didnt take the stand, which i find kindof suspicious. Damien, who seems pretty intelligent, kindof gives off a disturbed vibe, like maybe hes a sociopath, he doesnt show much emotion at all. The way he was combing his hair in court for a long time is just kindof creepy, like he was almost detached. i think most people would be bawling if they were wrong fully convicted of murder? atleast i would be.
the fact that that officer lost the evidence for the blood they found at teh restaurant , where that man was in the bathroom covered in blood and mud, on the same night, is just horrible. i believe there should have been a more thorough investigation into that.
either way damien says some pretty cryptic things relating to the crime, relating to the satanic book and the murders, the penis meaning power, how 3 is a special number, the younger teh victim the more power. like maybe he was just saying that cuz thats what he knew, and he didnt see himself as being guilty so it was okay, or maybe it was his sociopathic callousness showing through. who knows... very sad story. i do hope that in this case and all other cases like this all evidence is examined and everyone gets a fair trial, but we all know thats probably unrealistic
Click the above link.
The evidence, confessions and statements of Echols and Baldwin telling others they committed these crimes convicted the three. The satanic angle was only the motive behind the crimes. It has been shown the Echols was into the occult.
There was no panic as described above. Nor were there any legit investigations. There were several convictions of crimes with occult motives during this time that have been upheld until today.
There is NO evidence they were guilty. A statement isn't evidence. Someone's word isn't evidence. A child claiming they overheard something isn't evidence. And there was NO evidence of it being a satanic ritual! If it was supposed to be a ritual it's the shittest effort I've ever seen. And finally a social worker saying a person is into the occult & is capable of harming others blah blah is NOT evidence that he committed THIS crime. Don't you realise that you actually need PHYSICAL evidence to convict someone? There is not a single thing linking those boys with this crime scene or bodies. There is, however lots of physical evidence to prove of other people being present at the scene and on the victim's bodies, and of poor police & detective work by the WMPD, therefore deeming this whole case a total cock up....
Gail- Your claim that "there is not a single thing linking those boys with this crime scene or bodies" is just not accurate. While I'm not convinced the WM3 committed these murders, my personal feelings and beliefs about the case are simply irrelevant as to the evidence presented at trial. In addition to witness statements, physical evidence WAS presented to the jury. It's simply a fact! How can you possibly dispute the trial transcripts? We don't see the court proceedings in the documentaries but we hear the prosecution discuss these items with the victims' families after Jessie's conviction. The jury found Damien and Jason guilty with knowledge of these items. It's up to you to seek out this information if you want to know everything the jury heard and used to make their ruling. Even Jason and his attorney agree on camera that they'd have a hard time letting Damien go if they were on the jury.
Why continue with the claim of no evidence if you're aware it exists? Are you disputing this evidence was found at the scene? Or are you arguing the evidence at the scene doesn't link to the WM3 to the exclusion of all others? Again, we may agree or disagree about these claims, but it's irrelevant as to whether this evidence exists. Perhaps you mean there is no "smoking gun" since you insist on "PHYSICAL" evidence only, but this is where you go wrong. There is no standard suggesting physical evidence is necessary for conviction (and you do realise (sic) I mean US law, right?)
Claim the evidence was not compelling and didn't warrant a conviction, claim the jury made a mistake, claim the police and/or judge were corrupt, but base your claim on the facts of the case and drop the "no evidence" line. Nobody benefits from misinformation...
come on,In united states theres gotta be a pysical evidence always to prove that somene is guilty,,,or at least confession.Thats what happened in this case,no real physical evidence,only what they heard from others....and one of them confesed ,but they cant blame the others for the confession of one of them.They might be freaks ,but not enough to be asesinos
How to say this.... you are completely wrong. Ever heard of Scott Peterson?!?
One can be sentenced to death based solely on circumstantial evidence...
Guys, go look up "Satanic Ritual Abuse" or "Satanic Panic." This was a fad back in the 90s where fundies thought every unexplained crime was satanists in the woods doing some sort of ritual sacrifice. There were several official investigations launched and you know what? There was no evidence whatsoever that this occurred on a large scale and only a few confirmed incidents even remotely resembled the practice.
Is it just me or does the "Satanists were making sacrifices in the woods" argument just sound LUDICROUS? Satanic human sacrifice just DOESN'T HAPPEN. Especially given the panic at the time and the subsequent debunk, I am VERY skeptical of ANYONE who was convicted during that time period of being a satanist. At the very least, all three of these guys need a retrial with a level-headed jury after the emotions have calmed down, and a fresh review of all the old and new evidence.
Misskelley confessed three times. And as per the legal evidence, there was no coercion.
West Memphis Three' Inmate Makes New Appeal - NPR
However, Misskelley made two other confessions, including one just before the trials. "Jessie confessed a third time with prosecutors and defense lawyers in the room and a tape recorder running, and the story was substantially the same," the reporter says.
Jessie Lloyd MISSKELLEY, Jr. v. STATE of Arkansas CR 94-848 S.W.2d
Detective Allen asked him if he could come with him to the police department to talk about the case. The appellant readily accompanied Allen. He was not handcuffed and rode in the front seat of the car. The two arrived at the station at approximately 10:00 a.m. Detective Allen and Detective Bryn Ridge questioned the appellant for about an hour when they became concerned that he wasn't telling the truth. In particular, he denied participation in the cult activity, a statement which was at odds with what other witnesses had said. At this point, the detectives decided to advise the appellant of his rights. Detective Allen read him a form entitled "YOUR RIGHTS," and verbally advised him of the Miranda rights contained in the form. The appellant responded verbally that he understood his rights and also initialled each component of the rights form. There was no evidence of any promises, threats or coercion.
The form also contained a section entitled "WAIVER OF RIGHTS," which read as follows:
I have read this statement of my RIGHTS and I understand what my RIGHTS are. I am willing to make a statement and answer questions. I do not want a lawyer at this time. I understand and know what I am doing, no promises or threats have been made to me and no pressure or force has been used against me.
The waiver was signed by the appellant.
After he was advised of his rights and had waived them, the appellant was asked if he would take a polygraph examination. He agreed that he would. Detective Allen took the appellant to look for his father so that his father could grant permission for the appellant to take the polygraph. They observed Mr. Misskelley driving on the same road they were on, stopped him, and received the authorization. There was no evidence of promises, threats or coercion.
"completely beside the point because all he rally said was “satanists look like that guy!”. hardly proof of murder."
The expert did not say this.
"you’re ignoring the DNA evidence proving that someone else (terry hobbs) tied them up."
The DNA evidence does not link the stepfather to the crime. Hair fragments could have been on one of the boys through simple contact long before the crime.
"I didn’t realize that there were no stab wounds or anything."
The legal cases clearly show that there were serrated wound patterns on the three victims.
A youtube video is hardly evidence, especially when it is produced to defend the 3. The legal evidence from the cases convicted them, not statements from blogs and movies.
I wish there had been some kind of warning that the opening credits would show video close-ups of murdered children...I understand that it's relevent to the story but I was not prepared for that.
@Rebecca,
You have a warning message above the videos.
And much new evidence has surfaced. Some DNA that belongs to a father of one of the victims and his friend. It has become obvious as of late That they are innocent. Even the crazy dad featured in the second film has acknowleged that now.
On the wm3.org website it says that they were granted a retrial as of a week or so ago!
ok better do it properly then
"There was evidence the crimes had occult backings. What convicted them was the evidence and confessions"
no there wasnt, there was speculation which is completely different, and what convicted them was the false confession which wasnt what really happened anyway and hence shouldnt be used as evidence at all.
"The cult expert had a degree from a school that had a basic authorization licensing and the school met the state education code when he went there. The expert had degrees from other schools also. He had experience in many cases and had done legitimate work in the field for years"
completely beside the point because all he rally said was "satanists look like that guy!". hardly proof of murder.
"The fibers on the murdered victims’ clothing were found to microscopically similar to things in the Baldwin and Echols homes" as I understand it clothing fibers are not very good evidence anyway, surely anyone could own clothes with similar fibers, I doubt you could fairly convict someone based on that.
just gonna trim a bit off the last point you made..
"The serrated wound patterns on the three victims that were consistent with, and could have been caused by, a knife"
thats about how specific that evidence was.
also you're ignoring the DNA evidence proving that someone else (terry hobbs) tied them up. theres nothing you can say to that, theres just no way it can mean anything other than he had something to do with it
No, the information I posted was from the actual court transcripts used to convict the 3 and not from blogs. There was evidence the crimes had occult backings. What convicted them was the evidence and confessions.
The cult expert had a degree from a school that had a basic authorization licensing and the school met the state education code when he went there. The expert had degrees from other schools also. He had experience in many cases and had done legitimate work in the field for years.
The fibers on the murdered victims’ clothing were found to microscopically similar to things in the Baldwin and Echols homes. The serrated wound patterns on the three victims that were consistent with, and could have been caused by, a knife found in a lake behind appellant Baldwin’s parents’ residence.
You've dropped yourself in it there by saying "could have been caused". Could have? That there, my friend is a little thing called 'reasonable doubt'. You can't convict people because they 'could have' done it. That occult 'expert' was a pillock. I know more about rituals than he does! He got his PHD online and all his supposed 'evidence' was just his opinion! How do you send people to jail based on opinion? You need to seriously consider what you are implying here. I have read pages and pages of statements, evidence, photos and watched all the court proceedings I can find online (from your link)... all of the supposed 'witnesses' to confessions are not trust worthy. Polygraph testing especially that long ago where incredibly inaccurate & more so considering everyone was on so much medication! The fibers expert admitted that the fibers were very common & as well as being similar to fibers on Baldwin's mother's robe were also similar to other clothes found on the victim's closet. She even says this is NOT conclusive there for it is not sufficient evidence to convict. The whole case was a shambles, but if you want to keep kidding yourself that these are sufficient reasons to pin a murder on someone you & your conscience go right ahead!
Where are you from if I can ask. I'm from Memphis and I was living there during all of this.
@Danny
Agreed, totally off topic. sorry guys. Ive no doubt your right danny boy, but at least I know it doesnt mean "awesome" lol. I will have to study this when I have time as it was 25 yrs ago when I studied English history, im still sure it didnt become Great Britain until 1700ish and was called so because it united 3 British countries, Scotland, England and Wales, expanding the empire.
@Ramus
You might not care less, but that is the origin of the term. The fact that 'Great Britain' was used unofficially to refer to the kingdoms on the islands as a collective is irrelevant. The origin of the term is geographic, not political. It has more in common with terms such as 'Europe', 'Asia Minor' and 'The Balkans' than with the name of a country - that was adopted later. As I originally said, the term differentiated the island from Brittany. So when you say "the Great was there because of the other countries we had invaded; expanding the empire" and "Great is there since England, Scotland and Wales became one about 300 years ago" and "Great meant as in expansive" and "it has nothing to do with Brittany", you are wrong.
Anyway, this is totally off-topic so apologies everyone!
I said United Kingdom was a term used after the act of union not Great Britain. I concede that Great was used before 1700 though, but I will point out that that is unofficially. And can be traced back to King James.... or was it Charles? when they ruled both England and Scotland cant remember which. If you want to say that Brittania Major means Great Britain then yes that does go back back to roman times. But I couldnt care less what a foreign invader called my country.
@ guy posting that 'information' I suspect you are talking out your ass, or just want to beleive unreasonable things which are said by other people talking out their ass.
I cant be bothered going through everything right now but this was pretty funny..
"They engaged in orgies and, as an initiation rite, killing and eating dogs"
where did these loners who were basically each others only friends (and not jessies friend at all) find people to partake in these orgies? and where did the remains of these dogs go? I'm pretty sure finding mutilated animal remains near the murder site would be pretty good evidence for occultist activity. I can agree that the victims families are kind of being forgotten but as harsh as it sound, they're dead now, they WERE the victims whereas these three guys in jail are still victims of this and it can be put right if not for all the hysteria about satanism and such things.
"West Memphis 3" Follow-Up - Larry King Live
Statement from Diana Moore, mother of murder victim Michael Moore
Since the convictions, the media has made it a point to make this case all about the convicted. I would like to take this opportunity to remind people that three innocent 8 year old children were brutally murdered, and these three men were convicted on the evidence presented to 24 , (in total), juror members that voted unanimously to convict....
My little boy died that day. I'm his mother, and wish to say that the public remains ignorant about what happened in court primarily as a result of the Paradise Lost films, and the writing of Mara Leveritt. My voice is small compared to theirs, but I believe more relevant. They weren't there during the trials, and they didn't lose anybody. I lost almost everything, and not a day goes by that I don't mourn for Michael.
Jessie Lloyd MISSKELLEY, Jr. v. STATE of Arkansas CR 94-848 S.W.2d
The appellant was asked about his involvement in a cult. He said he had been involved for about three months. The participants would typically meet in the woods. They engaged in orgies and, as an initiation rite, killing and eating dogs. He noted that at one cult meeting, he saw a picture that Echols had taken of the three boys. He stated that Echols had been watching the boys.
@ Echols information
See, now if all this is true I am back to confusion. Who knows I guess. This doc obviousely had some agenda if it really left out all that. But why would the people making the doc want to mislead every one? Maybe because they hated the way the locals acted and wanted to show them to be defunct? But even if all that is true, the one thing I do know for sure is that the guy that said the younger one confessed in jail about putting b0lls in his mouth and all was lieing. And why would that Jesse kid not testify to get his sentenced reduced. I refuse to believe because he was loyal to the other kids, loyalty goes right out the window when you are facing that kind of time in a prison. Oh, and the absents of blood at the scene is very difficult to explain unless they did it and then brought the kids there afterwards. Who knows, I give up!
@Danny
BTW, Great is there since England, Scotland and Wales became one about 300 years ago. It became the United Kingdom about 200 years ago when Ireland joined. As far as Im aware it has nothing to do with Brittany, but if you can point me to a source which corroborates that I will concede :)
@Danny
Err where did I say "great" meant good? I dont believe I did. I was agreeing with Ez that it didnt. Great meant as in expansive.
Damien Wayne ECHOLS and Charles Jason Baldwin v. STATE of Arkansas CR 94-928 S.W.2d Supreme Court of Arkansas Opinion delivered December 23, 1996
Echols admitted on cross-examination that he had delved deeply into the occult and was familiar with its practices and where various items that had been found in his room supported the State's theory of motive that the killings were done in a satanic ritual...
Echols admitted on cross-examination in the penalty phase of the trial that he had an altercation with his father in which a knife was involved and the police were called; where he admitted that he was hospitalized that same day and that when his father came to the hospital, "I told him I would eat him alive"; where he admitted that he tried "to claw the eyes out" of a student; and where a psychologist who testified for Echols admitted that Echols had "an all-powerful God-like image of himself," that his parents were concerned with his satanism or devil worship, and that Echols's medical records included notations of statements by Echols pertaining, among other things, to his rage and the drinking of the blood of others.
Appeal puts 3 Ark. boys' murders back in spotlight
By JILL ZEMAN BLEED AP 10/2/10
- Echols' statement under cross-examination that he was interested in the occult, as well as a funeral register found in his room with hand-drawn pentagrams and upside-down crosses. Echols' journal was also admitted into evidence, and "it contained morbid images and references to dead children," the court's opinion noted.
- Echols' statement to police shortly after the murders that he understood the boys had been mutilated, with one suffering more serious injuries. That information hadn't been released to the public, the opinion said.
@ Ramus
I have a degree in theology as well, and have talked with people from all over the country about religion in general, and Christianity in particular at times. I would say no, they are generally not this fantical or combative. But lately there has been a movement toward literal interpretation of scripture, this has crippled science education horribly. It is also interfering with politics and race relations badly as well as allowing a demonization of the Muslims here in our country. Its hard to really say but I would say not as combative but just as indoctrinated.
As far as it being a hinderance, yes it is. Like I said it is hindering wise political decisions and deviding people over issues like abortion and homosexuality. But it also helps many feel safer and practice more moral behaviors. Its a complicated subject really, I wouldn't want to just say, "Get rid of Christianity" nor religion in general. But I also hate to see it causing such confusion over such concepts as evolution and cosmology. I go back and forth about the whole issue, to be honest.
@ ez
Man, imagine a jury listening to that so called occult professor with the mail order degree! A charlatan and a gobshite! And what about forensic evidence?
The volume is normal, you need to work this out from your computer.
Isn't the volume very low? How do I fix it?
If you think that they are innocent and you want to do something about it, you can join WM3.org, a group of people and artists that are raising $ to give him back their freedom, something that was taken away from them. Their lives have been shattered by the ignorance and hatred of a few.
There are 6 victims here, and the guilty person is running free.
@Ramus
Sorry dude, you're wrong. The 'Great' has nothing to do with being 'good'. It was used to differentiate the British Isles (i.e 'big' Britain) from Brittany (i.e 'little' Britain).
@Ez
You probably know more about England than me then lol. 2 places I find especially beautiful here are the New Forest and the Lake District, if you ever come here I suggest going to one of those :) I was thinking though that surely there are English type places in America but couldn't think of any though, its all plains and evergreens, you have Virginia though lol.
Re the doc, going back to my original post how much of the kind of with-hunt mentality is down to the fanatical way alot of Americans approach Christianity? Is Christianity a help or a hindrance to USA?
@ Jim Elliot
Sorry man, I agreed with you at first but after watching all of this. These kids are innocent. I will not say who is guilty, I hav no idea. But these kids did not do this I feel sure of that.
I think that Jesse kid knew something, but he lied about it being these kids. He would have testified to get his sentence reduced, he would have known more about what actually happened. This scene was absolutedly spottless they said. If they took that kind of time and attention to detail he would have known the right time of day and what was used to tie them up.
Plus the guy that got up there and said the younger one told him he did it and gave details, think about that. You are in jail and scared, you are young and small, you know about the rumors about what happens to young smaller guys. But then you tell someone you have never even met about sucking on someone's junk, putting there cohones in your mouth- no way. Besides the guy sounded like he was reading from a cue card, not recounting a conversation he had. No, these kids were pursecuted in a wich hunt by overly religious f00ls and a scared judge that felt he had no other choice.
@ Ramus
I used to Great Britian being Great Britian. I am a history buff, degree in western civics. I have always like Europe period, but especially England. My brother was stationed in London when in the air Force, but I never got a chance to go see him there. I studied Shakespeare extensively as well, once you get around the descriptive Elizabethan language it is excellent. Plus British farms are absolutedly beautiful. I live on a farm here in the US, its nice but I like the British style architecture and ash trees, cow slips, butter cups, heather- its all beautiful. Here we have pine trees everywhere, not that special really. Besides, if its good enough for Monty Python and Mr. Bean- I'm in.
@ Everyone
Man, I do think these kids are innocent. When i watched this years ago I really didn't pay it that much attention. But it is obvious these kids are innocent. No one could have done that at that sene at night without leaving some blood. and even the pathologist said he couldn't have done it in the water at night. No way three little kids did it and were that careful and precise. Plus you could just tell that younger kid was not guilty.
Echols should have never been put on the stand. he got a little to caught up in making sure people saw how smart he was, simple people around here resent that. I know I live within an hour or so of this place. People think if you have over an eighth grade education, you must think your better or something- its really sad. Plus the heavy metal music and all, he was doomed from the get go and should have been kept off the stand. even so his lawyers did a great job creating more than reasonable doubt.
This town should be ashamed of its self, including the parents of those dead boys. If they really thought these kids did it they should have felt pity and wanted them to get help, not threaten them and say all that horrible stuff. Its like all the adults turned into mean vindictive teens with no class or ability to control their anger well enough to seek real justice. Who ever did this did it somewhere else and dropped those kids there and is now free. AHHH!! it makes me madd. I wanted to slap that woman and man that kept spewing all that tacky smut and letting their anger run away with them. They created an environmenmt were the judge was probably afraid not to convict. I know these people they would have killed him and those boys if they had of let them go free. And dont get me started on the liar that said that the younger kid confessed to him in jail. His testimony sounded like it was read off a cue card. This is sickening.
@Ez
Hi dude, I think Patrick is Irish, they will hate the English until the end of time I think. I would welcome people like yourself into our country as you seem to have your head screwed on. Yes the "Great" was there because of the other countries we had invaded; expanding the empire, but now we have given them all back im wondering if it should just be Britain :)
@ Creatio-whaa!?
Wow, you are like the third person to proclaiim these kids innocent. I guess I should watch this again, I watched it years ago. But when i did I remember thinking that i didn't have enough info to know who was guilty. I know these poor people are horribly predjudiced, but is it really that clear the kids are innocent? I will watch it again, if I can sit through it. I got so mad at the ridiculus religion circus I had to turn it off the other day. I think we have to becareful here, we could get so grossed out by the town people's behavior that we proclaim these kid's innocents when they may be guilty.
I'm gonna go out on a generalization limb and make the blanket statement that the type of people who would convict these kids are the same type of people who are fans of indefinite incarceration without due process.
Ignorance, prejudice, and emotion are incompatible with the calm analytical thought that is the best chance for true justice. These rednecks live in a world where God and Satan and demons and angels are real, tangible creatures. Well, if they're right, through their own blind rage and hatred, they have allowed themselves to become tools of Satan himself. Because of their ignorance, 3 kids' lives have been ruined and the actual murderer(s) laughed all the way to the state line.
Farcical "justice" like this makes me lose faith in humanity. How sickening.
@Patrick
What a pathetic way to respond to Ramus. Dude, I'm an Irish American as well but blaming someone in the 21st century for what their ancestors MIGHT have done 200 years ago is ridiculous and, quite frankly, racist. Would you like someone to hate you because what some Americans did in the Phillipines more than a century ago?
And by the way, the 'Great' in 'Great Britain' is used in the sense of 'large' (to differentiate the islands from Brittany, France) not 'awesome'. If your going to snipe at someone, it's probably a good idea to get your facts straight first...
Wow, this doc is deeply disturbing on a number of levels. One complaint is that I don't think showing the bodies of those children, the photos and video, is necessary to tell the story. It is horrible and a bit sensationalistic.
please turn on sound for revelations
such redkneck inbreds
Click the website above for information on the case. It has information on the confessions and legal case evidence.
@ Enzo
Hey man, I haven't heard from you in awhile on here. I hope all is well. I'm sure you guys have issues like everywhere else. But overall I think my friends across the pond are wonderful. I love your humor and style, and there is so much history over there. Plus a more secular country would really suit me.
Yeah, this one was pretty depressing. i watched it a long time ago but couldn't really watch it this time. Hey, the new one on the dinos is great. Check it out.
@ez2b12
Well things aren't all rosy over here. Government cuts and all that. But I agree with your post. Anyway, I tried to watch the doc but gave up, it was far too depressing.
Documentary on the Courtcase of a Ritual Styled Killing ... cue Heavy Metal Music...f@#$%^& gotta love/hate the sterotyping (and I know it was given that it was a favourite type of music of Damien, but come on...)
@ Patrick
Man, statements like, "Maybe the reason England is no longer “Great” has something to do with your secular natures?" is what people judge Christians on. I live in the area that this murder took place in and will admit that the Christians here (rednecks) are probably not the best indicator of what Christians (sheeple) are like in general. That said the Christian faith and all others promote division and a holier than thou attitude that they use to excuse all types of injustices, the very injustices they say their faith is against in fact.
First you complain that England is not as great as it was, then you chastise them for the mistreatment of your homeland. Well if you read history and understand global power struggles you would know the treatment of your homeland, Scotland I presume, and their Imperial colonization period is what made them great, would you like them to resume this behavior? Then maybe you should not poke at them for no longer being the global power they were.
My country goes out and asserts it dominance through violence, unjust wars, covert actions, and propaganda- that’s what it takes to be a global power now days. I praise the British for their decision to not involve themselves in this and just worry about their own country, which by the way is doing very well despite not being where they once were. I would love to move their in fact as their middle class enjoys a higher standard of living than my countries middle class lately and they have been smart enough to know you can’t just keep printing money and throwing it into the system as it debases your currency and only puts off the inevitable crash that is coming.
i'm personally for the death penalty but also for justice. here that moustache guy is definitely weird. And it seems from the film at least that the evidence seems to be pointing away from the 3 in the second film.
but in the first film they seemed to never had denied that they did it.
but on the whole it is not PROVEN BEYOND REASONABLE DOUBT that these 3 did it so the capital punishment should be for the real killer....
Ummmm what happened with the rest of the polygraph???
Did anyone else notice that Mark Byers was on HALDOL for f's sake?? We give that to the elderly who have dementia and essentially turns them into drooling i@#$%^. That really surprised me.. I've seen dementia patients go from screaming at the top of their lungs to almost unconscious in minutes from the stuff. That mixed with Xanax and Zoloft...I'm surprised the guy can walk.
Now I understand that Mark Byers is just too perfect to be the killer. He's creepy, he's a criminal, a drug addict, but if you ask me Terry Hobbs fits the profile more. Much much more of a "he was such a nice guy" type. Know what I mean? Like that neighbor next door that nobody would have ever pinned it on until they smelled 40 rotting bodies in a crawlspace? That kind of guy...
Oh well, just my 2 cents.
They are so hateful. They want someone to blame, not the truth.
Fundamentalist christians preach love but display hate.
ups.. america is sick
OMG I can NOT believe it. I am lost for words!
I always believed that the 3 accused were innocent, after watching Paradise Lost. I would definitely like to hear what was muted in the video of the second film. I think that the three boys had no idea that they would be sentenced to death, or life. I feel that they thought that justice would prevail. I am sorry for the parents who have lost their children to such a horrible death, but what saddens me most if that they became satisfied with the sentencing of the three innocent teenagers, and had to look the other way when the truth was shining in their eyes. I am also shocked that the chief of police is too proud to admit that he could possibly have been wrong. And that he can sleep at night, as he claims. I doubt it, Unless he is a psychopath , himself.
@Courtney
Revelations is here, below part 1. 2 of the clips have no sound though.
BTW: Mark Byers is innocent too. This is a glaring example yet again of how easy it is to jump to a conclusion. The latest I heard is that some DNA evidence (a hair found within the knot of one of the shoelaces used to bind the victims) actually points to Terry Hobbs.
Vlatko: could we get Paradise Lost 2: Revelations on here? It's a good follow up and can be found easily on the you tube.
Ugh this is a real tough watch. Lots of graphicness and what a jacked up case. I can't help but conclude that the boys were innocent and a serious killer ran free, probably laughing at the media circus he created. I'm off to find out if they ever got free.
bullying
@Patrick
Ummm I apologise for what my ancestors did. Are you saying only the religious are great? You dont need to believe in a man sitting on a cloud judging everyone to have a good heart. Are you a Christian? Im guessing not as your vitriolic outburst doesnt sound like something a peaceful Christian would say, so what right do you have to speak on their behalf? 20 million Russians..... WTF has that got to do with my post? Oh and I hope your cough gets better soon.
Btw, this is the most recent news I could find. On November 4, 2010 the Arkansas Supreme Court ordered a lower-court judge to examine whether the three inmates should be exonerated in light of new DNA evidence. DNA from the crime scene was tested in 2008, and the results of the test "conclusively excluded Echols, Baldwin and Misskelley as the source of the DNA evidence tested," the Supreme Court wrote in its ruling. The justices also said the lower court must examine claims of misconduct by the jurors who sentenced Damien Echols to death and Jessie Misskelley and Jason Baldwin to life in prison. The Justices also ordered new evidentiary hearings for Miskelley and Baldwin.
Well, Ramus, not all christians are very good christians. You are also talking about a man with a tumor in his head. We all can't be Mother Theresa.
And to compare the actions of Christians versus their doctrines, shall we study the slaughter of 20 million Russians perpetrated by the Soviets? Shall we look at the sayings of George Bernard Shaw?
"The dude was unconvincing in his remorse and, to be fair, psychotic."
You judge christianity on the rantings of a psychotic?
Maybe the reason England is no longer "Great" has something to do with your secular natures? Its about time too, considering what you b*&^%$#s did to my ancestors.
Erin go braugh!
Christianity, or any religion, here in England is not as prevalent as in America. We also have no cults here (except the masons lol). No sororities and no televangelists. I wonder if the two go hand in hand. Most British people take a step back when the American preacher goes off on one, its not something we come across from day to day. I often wondered why a country which claims to be fervently religious (2/3 of Americans believe in an actual God, apparently) is also so fascinated with guns and death. The stepfather, Mark Byers, in this doc makes the point. He claims to be religious and quotes the bible yet he says things like "I will stamp on your neck", "I hope you burn in Hell". He also stood by with a gun in his hand while someone beat a teenager unconscious. Not the Christian way or so im led to believe. Can anyone explain this dichotomy? With regards to the doc, I started out angry that 3 teenagers could do something like this and ended the doc convinced Mark Byers is the killer. The dude was unconvincing in his remorse and, to be fair, psychotic.
I reviewed the wiki info on the case. Other than the fiber evidence, Byers' step father could also be the perpetrator. It was idiotic of the defense to put Damien on the stand. I'm not sure of the percentage of child sexual assault cases that had been committed by a family member, but I'll bet it's high. Also his presence in the courtroom and his actions seem a bit like a serial killer profile, staying close to the investigation and subsequent trial....hmmmm.
Damien screwed himself.
the ***** in my last comment refer to the male sexual organ; not sure why it was blanked out, considering the graphic nature of the video.
The most damaging testimony came from Damien. First we hear that he wanted to become a priest and that he dabbled a little in the Wiccan religion, then we see books on the subjects in question that had been seized from his house, then that he knew of Alistair Crowley, then we learn that he was the father of a newborn child, I mean, he kept digging a hole deeper and deeper.
His testimony gave the impression that he was hiding something (whether or not it was the murder is speculation). Men who want to go into the priesthood don't ask their girlfriend to marry them. He should have been kept off the stand; he gave the jury the impression that he was lying, that he was a sociopath. That combined with the physical evidence (fiber evidence, the knife, etc.) sealed his fate, and by association, that of his "accomplice".
Obviously the jury saw through the "penis skinning" testimony as circumcision has been practiced for thousands of years, and is a quick and relatively easy task to perform. By cutting the skin at the base of a penis, the skin can be easily pulled forward to the head, then removed, all in a matter of seconds. Anyone with a penis can figure that out.
There is a lot that happened in the trial that wasn't touched on. Given the preponderance of evidence, including where the crime took place in relation to the residences of the victims and the accused, one would have to consider the possibility:
What if the accused knew the victims. Living in the same neighborhood, the little kids looked up to these older ones. To have been lured into the woods by these three, they fell victim to the cruel imaginings of the twisted ring leader. It may not have been a satanic ritual, but a sexual encounter turned bad. The kids may have been killed to cover up the sexual crime committed. Remember, the kids bikes were found at the crime scene. Is it so hard to believe? The location of the bikes and the fiber evidence seal the deal.
Any other ideas?
D@mn, I forgot how bad this was, been a long time since I watched it. I often talk about how overly religious my area is. How the people here are mostly uneducated and very predjudice against anything differnet from them. Maybe now you guys will believe me, I only live about one hour from this place in north Alabama. Now do you see why I say it is so bad? I am embarassed watching this and knowing I live so close. I mean yes, the muder was awful and I see why these parents and step parents are really going crazy. I even admit that these boys may very well be guilty, like I said above I haven't enough evidence to say. But these people that are assuming them guilty based on thier appearance and taste in music or sexuality, are really judging them based on religion and predjudice built up in them from the time they were born until we see them here. I have lived here for a long time, most of life, I see how most people are raised to believe what these people are saying. Its sad, science is the enemy. I get all kinds of he11 for majoring in physics. Especially when they ask, "Wha' ya' goin do wid at degree?" I have to tell them that I want to go into astrophysics and what that means. I usually just get a blank look and a couple of blinks, but every once in awhile I get preached to about how "Man 'ull never know 'cause Gawd did it all in six days, blah blah blah." I have learned to just say, "Yeah, I think I have heard that one before, dont the guy die at the end?" and walk away quickly.
Any way, things are a little better around here over the last five years. I have never heard of another one of these weird killings, man this stuff was messed up.Believe it or not it just went wet here not long ago, that means you can actually buy a can of beer without having to drive about an hour to get it. That's right people around here are so religious, or they like to pretend any way, so they made selling beer or liquor here illegal. But they are almost all alcoholics, so they go to the line. The closest place you can buy beer is called "the line" around here. Come Sunday though- they would not touch it with a ten foot pole. Finally enough young people voted and it is now legal to just buy it here, isn't this ridiculus. When my Mom and Dad pass and no longer need me here, I am gone. I have land here and a house but I just can't stand it, I have to get out. What in the world am I going to do with a physics degree here in hickville?
@ Weirdedout
Yep, I caught that myself. Funny that sanitarium sounds great still, no matter what the play it over. Metallica used to rock, now they have sold out in my opinion. I am a jazz guy now, I can't believe I used to love heavy speed metal when I was a kid. Most of it sounds really cheesy to me now, but I still like metallica's Master of the Puppets album. Orion rules, so does John coltrane and Miles Davis though. Man, its no wonder I am confused!
@ Jim Elliot
I agree with you one hundred percent. I haven't watched this in a long time, saw it on tv years ago, but I remember thinking then that i had no idea what to make of their guilt or innocents. I simply do not have the correct information to make that judgement. After all the guy that made the remark about being the boogy man sounded guilty as all he11 right then, but maybe he was just making light of the situation- as he later claimed. Then again maybe he just wants to recall that statement after realizing that he was really going to death row and what that meant. Who is to say, like Jim said certainly not us. Just think if he did do this and they just let him out on no more info than what we have, they may be letting about the sickest dude I have ever seen go into public to do it all over again. I would have to have all avialable evidence and do several interviews with all suspects before I could come to a decision, and even then I might make a mistake- jurors do everyday.
When i started watching this documentary my thoughts were "Yea, I guess they caught them" but that turned around pretty quickly once they laid out so called "evidence" against these kids. What's more astonishing is that forums I've visited searching for information about this documentary, I found comments that didn't question the evidence what-so-ever and just label them as satan worshipers.
It's understandable to certain degree to why the parents feel these "satanic worshipers" should be out to death. Parents want justice. But this is just wrong, this is not justice.
It is understandable that those entrusted with handling strange cases like this can make mistakes and convict innocent people. I can easily envision such a possibility because of the number of people online who believe that because they watched a movie, or read a book about it, think they KNOW that not only are the boys innocent, but that another person close to the case is one hundred percent guilty. So many are ready to exchange the guilt of one for the innocence of another despite knowing even less about the case than those involved when the guilty verdict was handed out! I could read all the books and watch all the videos available and not feel that I have enough information to make such a decision from afar, especially considering the chances that I would do another possibly innocent person the exact same disservice as what MAY have been done to the three boys!
So how can you?
This is why lynch mobs are always presented in film and story as large groups of people who are WRONG, because they often are wrong!!! This is not meant to say anything about the legitimacy of their appeal, just a comment on the assuming opinions out there today!!
I think that this whole town is crazy!!!
they seem like they have had waaay too much religion forced down their throats.
Did they seriously put Metallica as an accompaniment to murder scene footage??
I remember seeing this documentary on TV and reccommend it to anyone in forensics or crime or law. or just anyone interested in the psychology of not only prosecutors but suspects.
Yeah I didn't notice that until after I recommended them to you, sorry man.
as for the documentary - this sh*t is bullsh*t man.
I think the most bizarre thing about my life growing up in small town New Zealand was the attitudes of people towards me and my friends after we started listening to heavy metal. its such an inconsequential thing, and we never dressed weirdly or anything (no makeup or black nail-polish or any of that), never did anything out of the ordinary other than wear band t-shirts, and yet people would yell abuse at us, ask us why we worship Satan, people we didn't know would try to fight us, and when we'd complain to teachers at school about it they'd act like were somehow bringing it on ourselves because we keep wearing band t shirts and listening to metal even though we know what happens.
I could go on about all this injustice in my life, made me a very angry person which took a lot of drug use and hugging rainbows to get over, but its still nothing compared what these guys have got. as sh*t as it was for me we would never have got the blame for anything like this, its absolutely disgraceful.
this guy is still on death row
Jesus and Satan all come from the same book.
I have to note that in the first playlist part 4 is missing and in the second playlist some of the parts are mute. Besides that, it should be watchable.
Do you know where can I get the second part?