Massacre at Virginia Tech
This documentary details the story behind Cho Seung Hui, a South Korean student at Virginia Tech University, who committed a mass murder of 32 people and wounded 25 others in the shooting rampage which has come to be known as the Virginia Tech massacre.
Cho killed himself after law enforcement officers breached the doors of the building where he had killed and injured the majority of his victims.
Cho arrived in US at a young age with his family. He had a severe form of anxiety disorder known as selective mutism in middle school as well as depression.
During Cho’s last two years at Virginia Tech, several instances of his aberrant behavior, as well as plays and other writings he submitted contained references to violence, and caused concern among teachers and classmates.
This is a unique look inside the mind of a mentally ill murder. One of the best true crime docs ever made!
Cho Teacher gave up on him . Because of his violent writing style . That really hurt his feeling .This mean he looked up to his teacher . Knowing that he did not talk much and his teacher just stop communicating with him . Then he could not talk to any females in the school . Because they all just thought he was just crazy and strange . This boy was in college and could not talk to any females . they label him as some strange crazy college student . This boy was locked up in jail by the police for trying to communicate with a white girls . To find a girl friend . He went from jail to A mental hospital . He was so up set about what happen to him . his last words to his male friend was taking his own life . Because girls started calling the police for him . and calling him crazy . that means he was made fun of . but no one would step up and tell the truth on camera . Cho did tried to communicate with students in his own way .but it was little to late . When the females labeled him as strange . With the police ready to lock him up with one phone call . Cho just stop communicating like four walls just close him off from the world with no door to walk out . and lost it . To brake out . If he would of slept with one girl . this would of never happen . It don't take a rocket scientist to finger that out . the boy kept telling his male friends that he wanted a girl friend in so many ways .
Maybe Cho should have stuck with the females of his own tribe, instead of trying to poach a female from the White European tribe and he might have had better luck.
For the life of me, as a White man who respects the natural and healthy and normal desire of each and every race of people on this planet to wish to preserve themselves and to pass on THEIR genes instead of the genes of some other race which is totally unlike themselves - I cannot understand how so many non-whites seem to adopt this attitude of 'entitlement' and think that it is their right to steal a female from White European men. I have no desire to steal any non-white females, not even the best looking ones, from any other man's race - because I RESPECT the right of each race to prefer to produce children that look like THEM. I have no 'right' to fish in any other racial group's pond and neither do other races have any 'right' to fish in my pond.
As a white girl I'm offended. Talking to all people and respecting all people is not sleeping with them, nor is it having children.
Being kind isn't sexual
You can't be serious. Everyone now a days is mixed also love should not be about culture or race, it should be about LOVE. I see nothing wrong with mixing cultures in fact I think it is a good thing that brings about understanding, and new ideas.
That's interesting. You're assuming that Europeans are genetically the most dominant or desirable gene pool out there, when in fact Asians have higher I.Q.'s by and large population wise. My Asian wife is a perfect example. Love her much. And our kids are really really good looking!
I agree with James as far as the sense of entitlement NOW in this day and age. living in America, its evident and we also like to think its 1900 on one half of the country and 2050 on the other side. Its very divided, and of course DIVERSE in culture.
However, we love who we love. If one is fixated on one race, look, what have you.. it can be obsessive but also a humans effing standard.
However, James....evolution. we are all bloodlines of our ancestors it doesn't matter where we come from. Our heritage as a race is only human, not a skin pigment.
This entire world was once one land mass. What ponds are you talking about? who gives a ****? European is what you are, not white.
Anyway, Our human brains are capable of insane ****, It really just comes down to what you do with your time here believe it or not we ARE born of the same abilkites and opportunites as HUMANS. This topic obviously, if its to kill like cho, the columbine shooters, ted bundy, david parker ray, any sadistic mother****** out there, okay...OR to sit on your ass and collect government checks because you have 8 kids with 5 different dads, okay. If you want to be a wealthy ****** prick and evade taxes, be my guest, if you want to live in the wild, sure some humans do in parts of this world...you get where I'm going with this?...
YOU CANNOT PREVENT what happens to this earth, to people, to yourself. This world will do what it wants and we need to just let it be. Stop trying to save everyone and stop trying to live in our past history. Again, Evolution. AND humans are simply animals. we sure do act like it.
There are all sorts of reasons why people snap. Sometimes it is preventable, sometimes it is not. In Cho's case, it appears it could have all been avoided if he had been bullied a bit less in the Virginia Tech English department or if he had managed once to get laid.
An interesting new book that covers all of Virginia Tech's disasters -- including beheadings, suicides, and other murders -- is coming out next month called "The Many Deaths of Virginia Tech" by Chuck Marsh. It is supposed to be available on Amazon. com.
Getting laid. The key to preventing mass murder...LOL
I believe Khalil Gibran said it best from The Prophet:
"Oftentimes I have heard you speak of one who commits a wrong as though he were not one of you, but a stranger unto you and an intruder upon your world. But I say that even as the holy and righteous cannot rise beyond the highest which is in each one of you, so the wicked and the weak cannot fall lower than the lowest which is in you also. And as a single leaf turns not yellow but with the silent knowledge of the whole tree, so the wrongdoer cannot do wrong without the hidden will of you all. Like a procession you walk together toward your god-self. You are the way and the wayfarers. And when one of you falls down he falls for those behind him, a caution against the stumbling stone. Ay, and he falls for those ahead of him, who, though faster and surer of foot. yet removed not the stumbling stone. And this also, though the word lie heavy on your hearts: The murdered is not unaccountable for his own murder, and the robbed is not blameless in being robbed. The righteous is not innocent of the deeds of the wicked, and the white- handed is not clean in the doings of the felon. Yea, the guilty is oftentimes the victim of the injured. And still more often the condemned is the burden bearer for the guiltless and unblamed. You cannot separate the just from the unjust and the good from the wicked; for they stand together before the face of the sun even as the black thread and the white are woven together....." ect. Read it for yourself. I cannot read through all of it without shedding a tear. I believe there is much more to this story than the media would have us believe. Par for the course. Peace
"And when the black thread breaks, the weaver shall look into the whole cloth, and he shall examine the loom also."
what a mongrel
Selective Mutism is not choosing when to speak, it's physically being unable to speak in certain situations. It's not up to the individual.
please, selective mutism is just another facet of the war on introverts. As a "selective mute" (I am a regular human being except in certain social situations - and in those i .. "cannot speak" isn't exactly the case. It's more that i'm not engineered to speak when i feel certain ways. I could probably. But i can't. Hard to explain to someone who hasn't been there.. )
This is common for true introverts. But we spend our lives being called weird. And being told that there is something wrong with silence to the point where it is branded a disease (just like hyperactivity in children has somehow become a disease. Just like hyper-intelligence in children is now also considered a disease) Very strong introverts will react quite dramatically to being forced into uncomfortable social situations. Not because they have a disease but because they shouldn't have been put in these situations to begin with.
You know what i think? In western culture, if you're not lazy, loud and stupid, you're considered diseased.
I think we need to stop putting disease labels on people and thinking that maybe, JUST MAYBE, the reason some people are so ****** up is because they've spent their entire lives being judged for having an unusual personality.
I agree.. and I have had friends who were not outcasts and at age 26 have never even hugged a girl because people considered them weird and shy etc. Guess what? Smartest and greatest people I have ever known. One was very skilled hacker.. but I will not comment on that ;)
Having said that of course what Cho did was ****** up. And terrible and shouldn't have happened. But I honestly wonder if he just got sick and tired of people trying to fit him into a character box he simply didn't belong in? Not everyone recharges by being around others. Some people recharge by GETTING AWAY from others.. And that is perfectly, wonderfully okay. And normal. And not a disease.
I admit I had my angst years, too. I developed social anxiety as a child. the worst part is i didn't know what i was feeling and although i knew it wasn't normal, i couldn't tell anyone. as i got older, my social anxiety became worse and worse to the point i couldn't even hold a fairly stable conversation at school without holding my silence in embarrassment and fear or freezing in terror when someone who ask me something as simple as where the science lab rooms were. it was awful. people saw me as weird, and often they showed it by poking fun of me. i hated them all, and there definitely were times it got very intense and i let them get to me because i wouldn't even stand up for myself and just take it. I had a lot of anger at how i was treated, but it never progressed to the point of me fantasizing about shooting and killing people. It didn't because of a godsend of a guidance counselor i had.
that year in high school, i was failing a lot of classes. two speech classes down the drain. math, english -- i failed those too. he guessed, and asked me if i had social anxiety after much probing of questions of why i failed those speech classes. i said yes and broke down crying hysterically. i knew i always wanted help but i was too scared to say anything. he arranged for me to see a social worker many times. i got very emotional in those meetings.
my parents were the most bemuddled, though, because i didn't want to talk about my social worker visits with them. even if i wanted to, i simply did not know how to share such intimate details i wanted to remain private. i also disliked how my parents were very skeptical about the work of a social worker and what exactly they were doing to "help" me.
I am not korean, but chinese. I suppose it's different for everyone but my experience in a chinese family is they don't believe in the work of psychotherapists. hell, my own mother thinks only crazy or mentally retarded people need to see therapists. my dad on the other hand is afraid a stranger will try to trick and launder off with their money in a scam. and what did i do? i began, after high school, to see a private psychotherapist for two years. it was the best decision for myself. anything i discussed with my therapist in sessions were to remain private, but my parents didn't seem to get the message. it was a very touchy subject, especially since i felt like my own parents cared more about the money they were spending on my therapy sessions rather than my growth as a person. i heard my own mother complain (during the time i was still seeing my therapist on a weekly basis) through the phone on speaker about the money she had to work for only to have it go into someone else's hands.
overall, i still have lapses in social anxiety but i'm getting by. i have some joy in my life now although i struggle at times to push myself forward. I feel lucky i didn't become like Cho.
My father doesn't believe therapy either and he's Dutch. Sometimes these attitudes are cross cultural.
Hi, I stumbled on this because there was another shooting in Santa Monica. I really respect what you wrote. I also developed social anxiety (we moved around a lot) and I often felt like everyone was looking at me and judging. I was diagnosed with clinical depression, but later with narcolepsy. My life got better after school, but I know how lonely it can be. Thank you for sharing
Just so you know my parents are European and same thing. They don't even believe I have narcolepsy! (just lazy..)
@ GoughLewis
thank you for your very constructive critic, you lobbyist for the NRA.
I like you too, you remind me what i want to prevent:
to be old and to be a fool, or, as we in Germany like to say: "Alter schützt vor Torhheit nicht."
PS: I guess you like it, that some countries have a-bombs( because they have to protect themselves, of course).
So should every country have a-bombs, or only the "superior" [attention: irony] ones like USA,GB,Russia, Israel and some others?
i have met people with this kind of persona...difference is the didn't get hold of a gun
Guns, knives, bombs, vehicles, tall buildings, water... What do they all have in common? They kill people.
Yes. Just like cars are to be blamed for drunk driving.
Fail.
He came from quite a respectable middle class background which suggests contradiction and hypocrisy on his part. I don't think parents are the be all and all to justify a person when he becomes an adult. Some children just stay children hung up on their own twisted bitter idea of the world. My angst years came and left me, everyone can be a hateful person but killing innocent bystanders is just beyond vengeful for me, it's the lowest common demoninator of being remembered, it's the internet, it's yesterday's news. R.I.P. all those who were victimized by this pathetic excuse for a human being.
The problem of this incidents is that it can be prevented. People like him should just get more attention on the right way and help on the right way. But sadly most parents don't care about there children anymore today, so then this can happen. Parents should be educated on how to react to a frustrated/depressed son who has no other way then suicide. Religions are useless, that is for sure. And now gonna watch this docu:P
This guy was suffering from a mental instability which was quite likely a physical problem. To blame his parents is no different than blaming his parents if he had developed a heart condition. Also, you don't know his parents have no right to judge them.
Cho still holds the record. Wonder if anyone will break it.
I'm sure some dumb-ass American will break it soon
A guy in Norway just broke this record. Apparently he suffers from the same types of biases that you do.
Wow, that's scary...I feel really bad for his family. I even have sympathy for him as there were a number of signs that he needed help, but most of all i feel for the people deeply affected by this outcome.
His mother took him to priests instead of therapists. He was even 'exorcised!' Just another example of where religion can sometimes lead
rundownthestreet202,
I don't think you are a sheep . . . I'm certain you are a walking dead.
I still don't get it if he was retarded or a genius, or it's just the self determination that makes him achieve his goals? why was he so obsessed with his perv persona? selective mutism seems to be a very dangerous disorder :S i was afraid all the time while watching it because it could be anybody around me.
there ain't any justification for any sort of brutal sick acts
Well Trumpsahead,
The irony is we are on the same page about a lot of things, considering our few posts. I whole heartedly agree and share your outrage over the 911 false flag / stand down operation that was conducted. Millions upon millions of people are aware of it.
The empirical scientific data is overwhelming for controlled demolition of the North & South WTC Towers and WTC7 on that darkest of days. Old school False Flag operation, and this technique is as old as Rome. Finding massive quantities of militarized explosives called Nano-Thermite in various stages of detonation in the dust of those towers does not support the official fairy-tale. The accredited Scientists, Physicists, Architects, Structural Engineers, Intelligence Officers, Retired Military Brass, 911 Researchers, Scholars, 911 victim families, 46% of all New Yorkers, and Millions of Americans are calling for truth and justice.
I understand your frustration. I guess, sometimes I catch these individuals mixing a bunch of "conspiracies" together in an attempt to discredit them all. That was my initial response to you, but I can see your opinions are earnest at this point. With all the mainstream media lies and disinformation that stream out of CNN or FOX "Fair and Balanced" News... in the name of good ole' propaganda to influence the masses, you are right to apply a bit of Healthy Skepticism. How many PSYOP's do you need exposed/caught red handed being run on the American public before you look sideways at an event as polarizing as Virginia Tech. Fair enough....
I just want to say, I was not always pro firearms for self defense, but that is an undeveloped younger self who was a little green around the ears. I don't trust the Government or the "Peace" officers for that matter, to look after my well being. I have evolved into a Constitutionalist, and the Second Amendment of the American Constitution is as important as the rest.
I have read everyones posts, and have found it all quite an interesting debate.
G
Dear trumpsahead, your way of communicating seems to imply that you somehow don't feel heard and that your point can only be made if you put the views of other people down. This actually results in people not taking you seriously, which I would think is the opposite of what you'd like to achieve. From what I read, you're quite wellspoken anyway and you actually have no need for ranting and raving to present a clear argument. Unless that is the primary aim of your posts and not the content. In any case, good luck.
Thanks Daisy, you got me cold.
I tried one last time to reply to Waldo sans the angst. Check my latest and longest comment.
Very astute of you,
turns me on.
Ciao.
Where's my comments to AZ and C and N ???
In reply to C and N,
Wow, how sympathico! You actually paused the video on each school photo, oh, God must love you girlie girl.
Well then, you must have sobbed your eyes out during 9/11, since that was the most horrific crime our country has ever seen.
I thought this documentary was done so clinically and devoid of all feeling, almost no emotion to speak of. Thought I noticed one of four school boys get a bit choked up when speaking to a reporter near the dorms. Other than that, every shot was a close up, posed pensively all those students, no smiles, no sadness, perfect makeup, just quiet thinking.
For my money honey, that was the kind of film I'd expect a govt propaganda machine to make, devoid of humanity and spontaneity, nada.
Now 9/11, there are more spontaneity and emotions and real footage and explosions and screams and omg's than you have ever heard in any one movie in your life. The most heinous crime of the century rightfully documented into a zillion great movies with questions and answers and arguments, lectures, expert testimonies, more arguments and downright outrage. That was real and emotional.
But you of course must know all this because you are a patriot, right?
See, all you can do is revert to 911 over and over, nothing to say about VT which is the topic of this conversation. If you had of ranted about 911 I wouldn't have had a word to say, but you didn't. You made the offensive statement that the VT shootings were faked and that since we never saw the bodies and blood we were sheep for believing. Well now we tell you we did see the bodies, we also have posed several very logical questions to you which you can't answer obviously. In short, you have lost the debate and now are just stomping your feet and cursing like a five year old throwing a tantrum. Yet you hold yourself up as some debate god that knows everything we don't. It's sad man, sad. This is why the conspiracy crowd catches so much flack. We all know conspiracy exists, that 911 is fishy, etc. But when you start this kind of drivel you make the whole crowd look pitiful. You have even got some guy talking about how we are trying to mix conspiracies to discredit them all, we didn't mix them- you did. We were talking about VT and you keep throwing in 911. See how you guys seem to twist everything you see, even when its in black and white right under your nose. All he had to do was read to see you were mixing these topics, not us.
By the way, C and N is not a girlie girl. I am pretty sure he happens to be a pastor and is some what sensitive to the human experience. He has also spends tons of time providing hands on help for needy children in third world countries. Now I may not agree with his religious views, but at least he is contributing to this world in a positive manner. That's more than I can say for your venom spitting rants.
Despite the unprecedented nature of the 9/11 false flag attacks some might argue that the wars it directly led to (in which possibly up to a million people have been slaughtered thus far) with millions more displaced, and two countries ravaged, constitute greater crimes than the initial attacks. Of course these wars are directly tied to and enabled by, 9/11. Vietnam with 3 million Vietnamese and almost 59 thousand US service members killed speaks for itself. ALL in the name of corporate greed.
The VT attack was about mental illness and the ready availability of guns and how the two combined often lead to tragedy. We saw this again recently in AZ with the attack on Rep. Gifford and others Cho, who had recently been described by a circuit court judge as a 'danger to himself and others' was thereafter able to walk into gun shops and legally purchase powerful semiautomatic guns which he turned into weapons of mass destruction. Tragic on all sides. But obviously we need to keep people like this from guns.
If his mother had sought out professional psychological help early on instead of dragging him from church to church (even subjecting him to an exorcism) who knows..it might given him the tools to prevent this. We know god didnt help that's for sure.
You are one angry individual. I sincerely hope that any one who has lost a loved one in this tragedy never has to read your hateful rants. To lose a family member and then to have someone say that it is a lie and that it never happened would be especially painful. Unless you have absolute proof, I think it would be prudent to keep your ideas to yourself.
If you are such a patriot, then why don't you go to Virginia Tech. Talk to the students and teachers, find those who claim to be related to the shooting victims, corner all those you call actors and expose them. Prove to the rest of us that you are not crazy. I know you won't, however. You would never run the risk of being proved wrong since that would be more devastating to you than the loss of those innocent lives on that horrible day.
Anyone who feels sorrow over the untimely deaths of the victims of VT or even 9/11 is not a girlie girl although a cold hearted person such as yourself would never understand remorse.
To Az,
No, the VT Massacre was never televised. Oh, it was on Fox allllll day long, but I quickly realized it was a five minute loop except every couple hours they'd add the same 30 sec. segment a few times then repeat back to the old five min. loop. Why? It was "off limits" to other news stations. Orders for that must come from govt since it is they who give licenses to media. See how this works? Do as I say or we cut you. And most people think we live in a free country, ha.
If it can happen, it has happened, and if crap happens elsewhere, it can happen here. Remember, Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Amin, Bush, were not cartoon characters, they were real.
Oh, you missed it, gee, too bad. Most of us miss what's going on. The govt trick is to make living so difficult you need to work two jobs to pay your bills and you don't pay attention as govt pulls the wool over your sleepy eyes. Wake up NOW or wake up when you feel the pinch of the bracelet around your neck, your choice. All patriots seek and learn the truth and tell all who care to listen.
We must return to the Constitution post haste, and the only man to help us is candidate for president Ron Paul, or Gary Johnson.
Narrow your attact on Virginia tech so we can know exactly what you are trying to say.
az
@ Trumpsahead
I have tons of stuff I would like to say to you about your opinion of what happened at VT, but I'll keep it simple and civil I suppose. What shred of proof do you have that VT was a false flag operation, I mean besides the rather flimsy reason that they didn't show the dead mangled bodies on prime time television? I mean this whole thing is so easily checked by any reporter and there would have to be so many people involved for your false flag operation to work- it just doesn't hold up. Besides what could the government hope to gain from this, the administration that was in office at the time was pro gun, IRA members to the last. The school certainly had nothing to gain and everything to lose, even possible civil and criminal prosecution. The families would have to play along, so would the staff at the school, the local law men and first responders, and of course the students that died and the young man who admitted writing the twisted stuff he did, buying the gun, and shooting these people. Any reporter can check easily accessed documents to prove these people did not really go to school here or live here or even exist, and trust me there are plenty of them that would jump at the chance to expose such a thing.
But if you have more proof than just your opinion, I will gladly listen. I mean that is the advice I get from the conspiracy theory crowd all the time right, question things- don't just accept what you are told. I say we start with your fantastical assertion that intelligent and sane people that knew each other, saw each other everyday, some how got confused or decided to lie about whether or not they just saw their friend get shot, just saw their students get shot, or even saw anything at all take place- how the parents of these children that are well known throughout the community as well as their kids have some how fooled the rest of the community that their children got killed. It just doesn't make sense man. Now think about the fact that you are wrong, and these people did get killed. How do you think it makes their families feel to hear things like this? How do you think anyone connected to this on a personal level feels when they hear such insulting nonsense?
Let me guess, you just learned to read but comprehension is still a puzzlement. Hang on child, you will get a grasp during the coming economic depression if only because you will hear every other person cursing the govt.
Okay fool, I'll try to make this quick. Did I ever say 32 students were not killed, no, but it remains a possibility though slight since it does seem families of dead students wanted their governor to Reopen the investigation, which I "believe" (but don't know) is true. Seems that mental health records from the University were "discovered" 28 months after the massacre even though they were demanded right after April 16, 2007. Found 28 months later in the "former" Director of Mental Health Counseling's home, in his damn home 28 months later. Oh, just an oversight. Really, when everyone is clamoring for CSH's mental health files, it never occurred that the Director took them home, or even that the Director never thought about it? C'mon, when were you born, last year?
Here's something: the only person who literally jumped out the window and escaped that day, Jeff Soriano, was killed in a fireball car accident one week later. There were so many anomalies to this case that it sounded like 9/11 all over again.
That's all you're gonna get, if you can read and are a patriot, investigate.
Now about false flag operations. Did 9/11 happen? Of course it happened. But it did not happen the way govt said it happened; it is proven beyond a reasonable doubt that 9/11's three bldg crash were Demolitioned.
I believe and apparently millions of people think similarly about this VT case but are wiser to keep their mouths shut. Most people voice contrary opinions only if someone in main stream asserted themselves first and got some publicity; with VT I don't recall that ever being the case. On 9/11 however, millions believed or knew immediately the hundreds of anomalies. But to what avail? Today we still cannot get answers because we are bullied by govt.
Your naivete really shines: What does the school have to gain you ask. Well how do you know who they have their allegiance to, when the Principal or President has a dual citizenry, USA and Israel? You said how can they get away with so many lies, but what of 9/11. I'm certain in the history of our Planet there has never been more lies perpetrated by so many people & on so many levels to cover up truth of a conspiracy.
You don't get it. You're way too young. You probably believe we live in the land of the free and the brave.
Wake up and smell the bullshit kid because a tsunami of it will be hitting a fan in your neighborhood really soon.
O.K. so now we are talking about 911, why? I never mentioned it and it has nothing to do with the shooting at VT. Can you say red herring? Lets stick to your assertion that the shootings at VT were faked, which now you want to try and back out of. Give me a break junior, your out of your league on this site, all opinions and assertions with no real facts or even common sense. Just because the government may have perpetrated 911, and that is a big maybe, doesn't mean every news story is fake and we can't believe anything even when it makes perfect sense. All we know of 911 is that we don't know the truth, period. If you KNOW more what are you waiting on man, spill it. Bust the case wide open for all of us poor illiterate children (priceless).
Personally I could careless what you believe, it doesn't effect me in the slightest, I just wanted to to give you the chance to let your paranoid freak light shine, and you did- brilliantly. Anyone that has followed my posts knows that I am vehemently against the governments crooked lying and deception, and that I spend much of my time involved in legitimate volunteer work and grass roots organizations to try and change that. But, I do so with facts and intelligent debate, not paranoid delusions and random assertions I can't really back up.
In the last presidential election I registered over three hundred people in my county alone, worked for hours and hours writing email and robo-call scripts for Obama and the democratic party in general, and organized the "no-labels" movement in my area. Its a political movement that tries to do away with party labels and ideology in favor of common sense government in the best interest of the people. I also organize debates between the citizens of my county and the members of the local commerce board, many of the larger corporations in our area, the utility companies, etc. To give people a chance to voice their concerns directly to those that control the local economy and infrastructure that we all depend on to live in this area. I also hold a job in the theology department of the college I attend and am completing my second degree currently, majoring in physics. Now this certainly doesn't make me a genius or anything special, but I feel pretty safe saying I can read and have a far better chance of changing things than someone spouting insults and accusations but little else. I don't pretend to know to what extent you are really involved in our democracy, but your input here doesn't exactly reflect civil responsibility, intelligence, nor simple decency.
As far as any further attempts at intelligent debate with you- Please address your juvenile attempts at insult and random complaining to the nearest brick wall, it will make just as much impact in the long run. That is unless you really have some FACTS, not just more amateur opinions and random assertions sprinkled with the occasional attempt at insult.
I paused the video at the picture of each victim at the end of the doc just to see the "human life" captured in a face that was lost. I was too stunned to even comment last night.
May i ask why it was never televised? Or was it?
I must have been somewhere on some trip, i do not remember this story!...or very vaguely. I watch the smallest amount of news as i can.
az
Your twisted view of the world is a bit nauseating trumpsahead. It's clear that wald0 made many valid points and you base your entire argument on your own paranoia. And do you actually believe MILLIONS of people think this shooting was some giant conspiracy? Woooow is all i can say... You take a tragedy that has an obvious and verifiable explanation and twist it to fit your own selfish fantasy world. Pathetic!
To be honest you sound very mentally ill and you should probably seek some kind of treatment. But I know you won't since im just another "sheep" in your delusional eyes.
Firstly, I have no proof that VT was a false flag operation, never said I had. I'd like to point out that it has never been proven that 9/11 was a false flag operation either, but it was - it happened differently and for a different reason and by different criminals than govt "investigation" says it did.
The 9/11 official report is unquestionably a "conspiracy theory" and a poor one given that most of the claims and timetable regarding the towers, PA crash, and Pentagon have more unanswered questions than sensible, logical and verifiable answers.
You said how can so many people be in on a coverup at VT, the students, teachers, even parents. The 2nd time I'm saying this to you: what about the coverup of 9/11, which btw I am using only because there are many similarities to VT tragedy.
In 9/11 there was no evidence that Arabs even were on any of the flights; no evidence that bin Laden had anything to do with it; there was thermite and nano thermate in all the powdered debris; where oh where did the insides of the biggest bldgs in our land disappear to if it was Only a collapse? This was clearly a Demolition, which means a ffo.
At VT, Jeff Soriano was a student who escaped by jumping from a window. It is written he confided that the killer was an "incongruous Cho lookalike", and a week later Soriano died in a fiery car explosion.
Ffo's have been an effective means of rallying the people since the beginning of time. It is said Nero burned Rome inorder to rebuild it; McKinley had the Maine sunk as excuse to fight with Spain; Hitler and his Reitschtaag, etc. VT may have been set up to attack the 2nd amdmt right to bear arms (which backfired).
Anyway, why must there be "proof" if there is no "independent" and satisfactory investigation? Maybe 32 students died, maybe not. Did they die the way govt says they did is the question. What if govt sent in an expert shooter to kill these kids, then used Cho as the patsy because his problems could be made into a story, and he had very little family here. Of course, the plot would have been designed ahead of time.
Remember McVey in Oklahoma City? After the face of the bldg collapsed from the explosion, it was discovered there were charges still attached to beams that failed to blow; read it in the papers myself, then later in many "conspiracy theory" articles. This mistake allowed for proof that McVey was a patsy and yet he was found guilty and was killed for it. He parked his truck and left the scene, but never planted bombs. This is another false flag operation.
So what is proof anyhow if reality is determined by whoever has the biggest stick?
One month before the massacre Cho bought the guns and 50 rounds of ammo. Where did he get the remaining 150 rounds or so needed to kill 32 students and injure 25 more. It was written in several articles I read that all the students were shot several times and All dead students were shot in the head. If you read about guns and moving targets you will discover it is extremely difficult to shoot 32 students in the head especially when they are ducking and moving and the perpetrator has two hands full of guns. This clearly needs depthful investigation, you don't answer this with one effin sentence. Btw, I also read but did not verify (don't know how) that Cho himself was shot twice in the chest and once in the head. Now why didn't anyone challenge that statement? Sure it's easy to say "another stupid conspiracy theory" to every question that can't get an easy answer.
If Cho's actions were premeditated, why were the serial numbers removed before the massacre? and can't forensics determine the numbers anyway (I don't know) but must be asked.
I watched the interviews with parents shortly after the kids were killed (the next day I guess it was) and as I mention in detail in another post here, I was shocked by the smiles and unbelievable wrong emotions that were presented to viewers. This is a very strange anomaly that must be addressed although I have never heard anyone mention it but me - how come?
I can't write all that I know; I would have to check with references I had made and I'm not getting into that. You know, during the two days of that VT shooting and interviews I wrote down 31 anomalies that were large enough to warrant investigation. I held onto them until I moved my residence then tossed them.
Was I the only American patriot glued to the tv for two days because I saw something no one else saw?
Now I must present proof so we can do what? Rock the world? There is nothing Big enough in this world or any other world that would be proof of its existence if the powers that be determined otherwise. Are UFO's real? Was drunken misfits Doug & Dave responsible for crop circles that takes mathematicians many days to figure out on paper? What is reality anyway?
Real investigative thinking often requires a leap of faith. You check the obvious and logical but you must always move beyond to other possibilities.
Why couldn't all or certainly most of the people in that VT documentary be actors, or paid handsomely to be "directed" as they certainly seemed.
Most of our News today is entertainment anyway, virtual news.
Why aren't you proof demanders demanding proof that govt is Not trying to destroy America when every action and decision is totally against American citizens.
I quit, I'm rambling but this format makes it difficult to check what I wrote. I'm outta here. Sorry for all the angst. ciao.
911 was an inside job, and the evidence is prosecutable.
You have no proof that VT was a false flag operation but you still believe that it is. You would make an excellent juror.
Anyone that says what you say about 9/11 is just not correct and this is a poor podium to spread your ignorance. You have no idea of the force of a Boeing 767 at 400 miles an hour loaded with fuel and a large percentage of magnesium in its construction. Then you want to go onto the passenger manifest being bogus or that "there were no arabs on the planes". That pretty much is where I stopped reading because it is not worth it. But anyone saying that a fully loaded with fuel Boeing 767 could not drop a building is just ignorant.
If your government was so brilliant at doing what you say don't you think they could have found WMD in Iraq? They can do all these conspiracy things but the one thing that they could have done to get the whole world on their side could not be accomplished. And you would say it could not be accomplished for the same reasons everyone blows holes in your theories.
American Culture = loving conspiracies
Not true for all but reading the posts on this site on Doc's it appears to be the reality.
@ Trumpsahead
Look pal, you can believe whatever you want, one more moron wont break the camels back surely. But believing VT was a false flag operation makes no sense what so ever. What would be gained by such a thing, how would you explain the families that lost their loved ones, the fact that anyone can check death records and confirm that these people were killed and how, that anyone can check birth records and other official documents that prove these people did live here and go to school here and so forth, the eye witnesses that saw what happened and have no connection to the government as many of them are still attending VT or going on with other normal lives that can also be easily checked into, the school admitting that this had taken place on their campus which had to be the absolute worst thing a school could have to admit, the interviews with local police and so forth that have worked in that area and know everyone long before this took place saying they saw what happened, etc.etc.
People like you are exactly what gives the whole conspiracy theory scene a bad name. Everyone knows that conspiracy takes place, always has always will- but it is never these elaborate meat headed schemes people like you dream up. Its much more tame and bland, never as easily proven or dis-proven as a public shooting taking place on a college campus while classes are being attended. The students that died, and they did die, knew people from the neighborhood , had families that were also known in the neighborhood, had documented history at the university, were well known amongst both students and faculty, the list goes on and on.
Now, can you give us one shred of evidence that what you say is truth? I mean besides your whole obsession with why the news did not show bloody carnage and dead students, which by the way is customary when covering an event of this nature. These children's parents and the college would have gone nuts, along with the rest of the country, had they of shown the bad taste displayed by putting such things on prime time television. However, they did show the response to the incident, ambulances and tons of police many of which knew people on the scene and could not have been actors.
But hey, you are the one asserting a fantastic claim so you should be the one that has fantastic evidence to back it up right? So where is it? Or are we to scrutinize everything we hear except that which you deem worthy to spout about. You say wake up, I so o.k. lets start with you.
@pnbj88
Yes I'm from Ireland, trying to say that alot of people know somebody in the IRA is utter nonsese and then trying to play it dumb by saying I dunno is just silly. By your logic I could say lots of people from Italy know the Mafia gangsters and lots of Russians know KGB soldiers...but I dunno.
Acutally for the record I am student studying for a B.A. in Music Technology at Maynooth Univercity, Kildare.
Nice...
funny thing is that the majority who get popped for gun charges are low rent drug dealers, teenagers trynna look cool and mentally handicapped rappers trynna act hard.
dude, u guyz are really confused if you think any gun "law" or "ban" will reduce violent crime ..
if someone is willing to commit murder (break a uber law with uber jail time)
you think your little felony gun charge is a deterent ???
oh or maybe crazy suicidal kid doesn't want to tarnish his criminal record with a gun charge.. "oh darn it.. i guess its no killing spree for me!"
rofl.. u scaredy cats are so funny. u'd give up your rights so the only people with good weapons are the ones willing to break laws.
that is such pitiful reasoning.
I did not see this documentary but am opposed to gun laws. Americans should be able to carry guns but automatic weapons should not be for sale to regular citizens.
Having said that, I'd like to know: How do you know that Cho killed 32 students? Did you see the bodies? No? Did you see blood? No? Did you see all the news stations? No, it was not televised? Did you see the mournful expressions during family interviews? No? Families were ALL smiling when interviewed? Wow! So, we in America have come a long way from demanding good news coverage to accepting virtual news, and Virgina Tech reached a new high in lies and creating reality for the American idiots.
Wake up America! You do not know what reality is anymore. I welcome an economic depression because it will bring needed responsibility to lazy sheeple individuals who believe anything govt lays on them.
Do you still believe Timothy McVey blew up the Oklahoma bldg? If so, you're a moron. Happy that Osama bin Laden was killed while Papa Bush was lunching with Osama's brother at the Carlyle? Get a life.
Prove to me that Cho killed those students. This documentary is probably a govt fiction story designed to cement the idea of the official govt reports of that day and to rally a cause for "gun control" by govt. More lies by govt just like the lies of 9/11.
I bet if someone made a documentary on "How To Think and Reason" no Americans will watch it.
Get the tinfoil off your head. Get help. The sooner the better.
Was 9/11 a false flag operation or not? Yes it was, jerk52. In a fair trial it would easily be proven beyond reasonable doubt that 9/11 was a Demolition of three buildings, and all the evidence points to the White House.
I believe VT was also a false flag operation and there are many anomalies of that day to validate what I'm suggesting. Read my other reply to your traitor friend.
But you are quick to put me down. I am a Patriot of USA and proud enough to question everything govt says. I firmly believe that we are headed for a Great Depression because of people like YOU, jerks who cannot see the lies, and accept all that govt says. Shame on you. When we go into a civil war one day soon, you will be on the side that protects the status quo.
Like that other bozo, if you can't say what happened on VT day, then shut your trap. I care about my country, and I'm ashamed of what's going on and what govt is getting away with. You must not see it. Get a brain.
@trumpsahead,
You are absolutely correct.
And don't let 'jerk52' or any other nincompoop who
never did his science homework tell you different.
Here's all the ammunition you need:
THE BUSH-CHENEY CONSPIRACY THEORY
The wildest conspiracy theory of all time!
Newtonian Mechanics dictates that the free-fall collapses of World Trade Center buildings 1,2,&7, were each the result of controlled demolition.
Source:
F = ma, where a ? 32'/sec²
F(due to gravity) = G[mM?r²] ? T(for WTC bldg's1&2) ? 10 sec.
~ Sir Isaac Newton (1703-1727)
_______________________________________________________
ACTUAL time of collapse, T ? 13 sec.
_______________________________________________________
And the USA PATRIOT Act was ready and waiting before 9/11.
Consider the following:
The USA PATRIOT Act, at 342 pages, consisting of 156 separate sections, under 10 discrete titles, covering 350 subject areas involving 40 different federal agencies, was written within the 3 week period prior to its introduction to Congress, on Oct 2, 2001, at the average calculated rate of 16 pages per day.
During the ensuing 3 weeks, subsequent to its introduction to Congress, while the act was being read and debated, a series of anthrax letters were sent to news anchors, leading Democratic senators, and to the Supreme Court.
The bill was then passed by both houses of Congress.
Then, on Oct 26, 2001, 45 days subsequent to the controlled demolitions, the USA PATRIOT Act was signed into law by President George W. Bush.
_______________________________________________________
Patriotism is supporting your country all the time,
and your government when it deserves it.
~ Mark Twain
After watching the horrible events in this documentary, I am absolutely astounded that someone actually tied it in with 9/11. If there is to be a revolution, I can only hope that you are not among the leaders. The ones we have now may be bad but they pale beside you, if the hateful rhetoric you've posted is an indication of how you would run the country.
That is all I can say. I've already said too much, apparently, since the rule seems to be that I must agree with you or be quiet.
Good luck and watch the blood pressure.
Well Trumpshead, you are either a government troll, or, need to work on your persuasive rhetoric a bit. You are actually bringing up some interesting truths, and mixing it with 100% pure wack job?
Are you doing that on purpose? This is a technique called Bad Jacketing/Death by Association/Smear Campaign - by including the target idea/individual/movement along with another topic or personality that is disliked or discredited (UFOs, anti-semitism, nazis, etc.), the original subject can be smeared and dismissed.
Everyone knows, with half a brain, that False Flag Operations are as old as Rome, and governments lie all the time, but Jesus buddy... I just have to ask, are you Cho Seung Hui reincarnated? Or are you just channeling him? Holy moly oh my gosh you are crazy....haha
You and I both know it is you who work for our criminal government, you sleaze bag traitor. You did not offer one answer but a tirade against me. You know nothing about what happened that day. If 9/11 was a false flag operation why couldn't VT be also, which I believe it was?
I ask again: Did you see any bodies? Blood? Was it televised? It was most likely a creation to divert attention from invading Iraq or something can't remember what was going on at that time.
I know what's going on in our country, and watched every minute of the day on two tv's and counted about 31 anomalies that convinced me it was a false flag operation.
If you have nothing to add, just shut your traitorous face.
I mistakenly wrote "bin Laden died while Papa Bush was having lunch with his brother..." but meant to say Bush was lunching with bin Laden's brother during 9/11.
Yeah, I'm an angry patriot. But you sir are an analytical moron. I meet people like you every day; they're in my family even; they're up on everything that's happening and glib as all hell but know nothing, cannot see what is unfolding before their eyes.
Who are you? Do you mind answering yes or no to a few conspiracy questions?
Did Oswald kill Kennedy? y/n
Did Sirhan Sirhan put the fatal bullet to Robert Kennedy?
Do you think John Kennedy Jr died by accident?
Did Timothy McVey blow up Oklahoma Bldg?
Was 9/11 Demolition?
Was bin Laden responsible for 9/11?
Do you know Cho Hui massacred students at VT or you believe it because you were told?
If you cannot answer my questions, go scratch.
ha ha is right!
az
@ Trumpsahead
Sure, I will answer a few of your questions: (1.N (2.I don't know enough about this topic to comment (3.N (4. Maybe, but most likely not - the undetonated bombs was the giveaway on that haha. (5.Y, Obviously (6.N, Obviously
Now this is where it gets really gray, but you have me curious. What is your evidence that Tech was a PSYOP.
P.S. you come across like a crazy person, way over the top angry at the world type guy. Just roll out the Empirical data, the measurable/weighable/definable, I am curious. Be accurate, not passionate, if you don't mind. Also, watch the movie first, before replying if you will so indulge me.
i like the way you think. with and opening of "I did not see this documentary but am opposed to gun laws" i did not read his till after your post. then i see this rammbling post after post he is putting up. No he saw the show b4 his 1st post .
I hope he is just some crazy. Posting to things he didn't see. Or be working for big or small government. Ffs i'm not even gonna reply to him directly he scares me and is sound's like he has gun's or think we should all have them.
Or im the crazy one. I would be the last one to know
Yeah lewis,
I saw your clever govt rhetoric. "Should we extend the patriot act, or one strike you're out instead of three, what else, change the Constitution, etc. . . ." You govt shills are clever enough, talking like you're for 2nd amdmt but you throw in an entire paragraph so morons who don't know what's going on remember wrongly and follow the leader.
I read some comments who disliked what you have to say, and I don't think it was what you said but how you said it. I think you are not as clever as you may think.
Most people are getting the hang of the Bama BS by now also; say one thing then do the opposite, a political ploy used even before the Roman Empire, ha.
You did not read my comments, too bad. Thought maybe I could enlighten you. ciao.
I read all of your posts trumpashead. I got to say, we see eye to eye on a lot issues.... Particularly on the False Flag 911 / Stand Down operation. I think what it is, is your debating style is so hostile! ...haha, makes for good reading though! Your beginning to make sense…must be time to up my medication. You grow on people - like a wart! I don’t know what your problem is, but I’ll bet it’s hard to pronounce.
ok lets break this down
to start i googled Virginia tech massacre and the first site i checked on answered a lot of your questions (try research sometime)
"Did you see the bodies?" yes (some not all)
"Did you see blood?" yes
"it was not televised" i found video
"Did you see the mournful expressions during family interviews?" yes
"Timothy McVey blew up the Oklahoma bldg?" yes but irrelevant to this subject
"Happy that Osama bin Laden was killed while Papa Bush was lunching with Osama's brother at the Carlyle" no he wasn't
now you seem confused you are making the statements and asking others for proof. the onus is on you. you are making the claims so you provide the truth.
Over the edge,
You are obviously over the edge and a liar.
I was up at the crack of dawn on that day and watched as the first dormitory murders were announced; Fox News was on for the remainder of the day (at least I think it was Fox) and all other channels showed once in a while "breaking news" which was only what Fox was showing all day.
You did not see bodies because I was watching and there were none except one. One body was carried out on a stretcher. It was a very large man who I doubt was a student. I felt that this man was not dead, and they showed that clip over a thousand times since the only News you saw was a five minute loop all damn day. This is the fourth time I'm mentioning this. If you give a damn, why aren't you reading my other comments? There were plenty of ambulances lined up at the curb, but no action.
When did you see blood?
Again, the video's on youtube are all from the five minute loop from Fox.
I watched every family interview and could not believe my eyes that they all were smiling like a great big inside joke was being foisted all the while speaking of their only-hours-before murdered daughter or son. I have never seen anything like that in my life. I thought maybe they came from where Jimmy Carter grew up 'cause he smiles at the end of his sentences constantly, but this was eery, I thought they were actually having difficulty containing their mirth as each family (parents and/or siblings) recounted a similar format of each student's life and character.
And you're telling me mournful? You sir, are full of crap. I missed not one interview, was glued to the tv for two days because I saw anomalies left and right, and thought something terrible evil thing was unfolding before my eyes and I caught it.
Oklahoma was McVey? You must not even be American. Only patriots know the truth because they care enough to investigate. You are a sham and irrelevant to this subject.
I corrected that bin Laden mistake as I was thinking faster than I could write. One of my posts is a correction of that.
Maybe I should just shut up because every time I speak about what is going on in America I feel I am in the land of the walking dead.
Why do all the shills ask for proof. 9/11 proved Demolition but can we take action on that? Reality is determined by whoever has the biggest stick - Mel Gibson.
One question: Have you ever gotten a lobotomy?
@trumpsahead
you are still talking but providing no proof. you want to be insulting and attack me personally? you don't even know me but you feel qualified to make accusations about someone you never met. i guess you use the same level of proof for your judgement of me as you use for your conspiracy. don't worry this will be my last post to you because i read your posts on this subject and none of them contain a shred of proof only speculation and misdirection
ok lets break this down
to start i googled Virginia tech massacre and the first site i checked on answered a lot of your questions (try research sometime)
"Did you see the bodies?" yes (some not all)
"Did you see blood?" yes
"it was not televised" i found video
"Did you see the mournful expressions during family interviews?" yes
"Timothy McVey blew up the Oklahoma bldg?" yes but irrelevant to this subject
"Happy that Osama bin Laden was killed while Papa Bush was lunching with Osama's brother at the Carlyle" no he wasn't
now you seem confused you are making the statements and asking others for proof. the onus is on you. you are making the claims so you provide the truth.
What is wrong with USA?
Once i stumbled upon a website, where all the american school-shootings were listed. And i was thinking "wow,a very long history in school-shootings - what the hell is going on over there?"
I'm from Denmark, and we have only experienced school-shooting once. It happened back in 1994 at the University of Aarhus. The way I remember it, the shooter killed two people with a double-barreled sawed-off shotgun, and not a 9 millimeter Glock or tactical automatic weapons. Maybe the problem is, that these psycho weapons are easy to get in America? Compared to USA, you cant buy these guns here In Denmark.
Well actually, you can buy 9 milimeter pistols in Denmark if you have been a menber of a legit gun-range association, for two years! And you have to get the permission from the district police chief, but you will never own a legal automatic rifle.
My point is, that its hard to get rapid fire weapons in Denmark or any weapon at all. You might be able to find an old shotgun at your grandfathers farm. But thats pretty much it.
wow you really must be naive if you think you cant get those guns there. You just don't the "right" people to get them from. Guns are illegal in Ireland, But for the right price and a few phone calls to the right people you could get anything from a 9mm to an RPG launcer. No joke. Also to say what is wrong with America is wrong, There are fine law abiding citizens there too. A few bad apples... yes but show me a country that doesn't have these. There is no denying that America has the most school shooting partly because its HUGE and has more schools there than a lot of smaller countries in Europe.
So you are from Ireland?
I guess a lot of people in Ireland know someone who knew somebody who had something to do with the IRA conflict? It may be easier to get the RPG's in Ireland. I dunno.
Im not saying that these things does'nt exists In Denmark. But you make it sound like its similar to buy some dope - well it isnt.
You would have to know someone in the Bandidos or Hells Angels. And I think you would have to know them really really good. And I also think that if you know someone in those places, you are probably not a studentt in any way.
Im only saying, that even if we put all of Europe together we still havn't got as many shootings as the USA.
And if your of a mind to kill that old shot gun works just fine. There are plenty of countries with just as many if not more weapons owned by the public, still they do not have the violence and killing like we have here in the states. Don't get me wrong, I am all for a ban on certain kinds of weapons and for the huge clips that hold like thirty bullets. We recently had some guy open up at a rally one of our congress women was having, he had a thirty round clip and no one could get him down until he ran out of bullets and tried to reload. If he had of just had a standard clip much fewer people would have died that day. My point however is that here in the u.s. there is a deeper seated problem than just access to weapons. If it was only access to weapons other countries, like Canada, would have the same amount of violent crime and killing.
Roger Moore did a documentary on the problem and why it is so prevalent here in the states, its called Bowling For Columbine. Columbine is a place where we had another school shooting here in the u.s., this time it was a high school. You should check it out if you are interested in this issue. Its named after one particular incident but it tries to cover the larger problem of why we have so much killing. People try and say its our violent past, but countries like Germany have had more violence in their past than we have yet they do not have this issue. They say it is violent video games and movies, but other countries watch the same movies and play the same games.
I have no idea why we have such an issue with our citizens wanting to kill one another, but I don't think taking their guns will completely fix it. I think bans on assault riffles and machine guns can help, and am all for them. No one needs these kinds of weapons to protect themselves and if you only have it for a hobby, is that hobby really worth people dieing? That said, we have to get to the deeper underlying issue here in the U.S. or this will never really stop.
In Canada people are a lot less religious, a bit more cynic/pragmatic and they are not involved in war mongering for 100 years. I think that has a lot to do with it.
So I say it is a matter of propaganda: the church keeping people under intelectualized and war propaganda saying it is right, honorable and exciting to kill. It is not that people want to kill each other, it is culture teaching it is ok to surrender control of emotions to religion and the government, so when people lose it they use the easiest alternative to discharge their wound up rage.
I am also inclined to say there is a lot to do with how easy it is for people to simply give up on their families, a major source of understanding and comfort. it is too easy to have an independent life, so kids simply ditch all that is truly important and live life compounding unresolved frustrations and struggling in the status game.
Now I think gun control is a bad idea, but proper gun training is a good thing.
@Leonardobdas
"In Canada people are a lot less religious". Right!
There was a time when just about everyone in Quebec was Catholic, the religion controlled most schools...it even controlled politics.
But French Canadians said enough is enough...and it was enough!
az
First of all. Good comment.
Roger Moore played James Bond and James Bond love guns, Micheal Moore did the doc ;)
I saw Bowling for Columbine and I think he is right.
But if those guns weren't around, the disturbed kids and students couldn't have killed as many people as they did..
I think it is insane that these young people could get these weapons so easily.
Taking the guns away from people would help a great deal in the short term and would be the most effective way to start, and then deal with the underlaying problems.
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. People with guns - that is.
@azilda
yes yes agreed, but just like in brazil where about 3/4 of the people are catholics... canada's catholics are harmless and don't take it seriously(most of course). They are different than the bible tumping born agains and baptists and penthecostals and blah blah blah. no?
"The essential American soul is hard, isolate, stoic and a killer." — D.H. Lawrence
The slaughter at Virginia Tech on April 16 forced Americans to think about themselves again, once again trying to puzzle out this latest act of wanton violence that left thirty-two dead and many more lives scarred. For about a week or so Americans seemed genuinely concerned about the level of violence the country is capable of generating at any given moment.
The Questions: Is it religion. Is it Hollywood. Is it lack of Gun Control. Maybe more prisons are the solution, with harsher sentences... One strike your out, instead of three. More police. More check points. Harsher Patriot act laws. Enhanced Interrogation techniques conducted on average joe American Citizen to see if they might commit a crime in the future. Dismantle the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, just trade ones freedom for safety.
When it became clear that Seung-Hui Cho, the murderous student who killed all those people had, shall we say, serious issues, Cho himself and his act of violent self-assertion was dismissed as madness. Nuts, of course he was — way around the loony bend.
Based on Cho’s videos and the comments of those who knew him, Cho was deeply disturbed. The FBI investigation labeled Cho a "collector of injustices." He was... insane.
But...yeah, the states is crazy. Dangerous place actually. Good place to own a hand gun for self defense.
Denmark is such a little country, and it is one of the best in the world. It has a highly educated population and fantastic infrastructure. It has money, resources and history to control its population and people are homogenous enough to self police. The US is a different animal.... a whale compared to a denmark's hummingbird. if you try comprehensive gun control there it would be instant civil war man.... there are almost 300 million guns in US civilian hands.
For what I know places where a gun ban is in effect crime soars. Chicago is an example.
Whale compared to Denmark's hummingbird?
I bet you that the whole of Scandinavia plus Finland, well even if we include all of Europe (that is almost 500 million people) we are not even close to the number of USA school-shootings.
I like wald0's comment better.
I am just saying that the occasional massacre is just part of the show....and government should not take the right of millions to own whatever weapons they want because of it.
SHould the government ban bacon cheese burgers so less people die of heart attacks? How about cigarettes? should we ban them too? How about cut foreign relations with holland because they sell drugs in bars there?
Jokes aside....the city I come from ni brazil has 50 murders a weekend..... yes, one city with about a 1,5 million people. So the US having 10-15 thousand or so murders a year of their 300 million is really a minor risk specially considering how safe life is in the US in comparison to 'normal' life in the average country where not everyone is white and mighty.....
well I suppose another factor is that people in europe know very well what it is to have bombs dropped over their heads, so guns are a bit of a no no.... they have the high moral ground in this issue (one can say that) and I think it is cool.... but that won't work in the US... guns keep people in check here... cus you never know if that guy you are about to yell at is carrying a concealed weapon.... so you tend to shut up you know? My girlfriend walks around with a fun in her purse.
One interesting factoid is that 3/4 of gun related crimes are commited with hand guns.... so..... I am pretty sure the US won't get rid of pistols.
One of the worse school shooting happened in Montreal.
I am not arguing the rest of your post...just stating.
az
only 1 dead in Montreal, hardly the worst... its also less than an hour to the us border.
@julien ranger
**One victim died at the scene, while another 19 were injured, eight of whom were listed in critical condition with six requiring surgery. The shooter later committed suicide by shooting himself in the head, after being shot in the arm by police.**
Oh ya! you're right it wasn't that bad! Hum.........
Az
Well pnbj88,
There is nothing wrong with carrying a fire arm for self defense, and if you don't want one... that's fine too. But, it always should be a choice.
The whole school shooting thing disturbs me. We must remember Cho Seung Hui was literally insane in this case. The right to carry a fire arm for self defense is not diminished for me by this tragedy, but enforces the argument for the need of the 2nd Amendment in the United States Constitution. I don't want to come across as a cowboy, but the right to defend yourself is an option we all should have.
@ pnbj88
The country you are from, Demark, also spends more per capita on education than any other nation on Earth!
Maybe that's why there's less insanity in Denmark than in the USA.
Hmm. Its true that education in Denmark are free and students even get money from our government in support while taking an education.
But, you are saying, that because of this we do not have school shootings?
"Sung-tae Cho, the killer’s father, came from a poor rural area. He was a “country bumpkin” and considerably older than his wife, the daughter of a refugee, said Seung-hui Cho’s great-aunt, Kim Yang-soon. “We practically forced her to get married.”
Hyang-im’s father had fled south during the Korean War that separated the south from its communist northern neighbor, according to Korean news reports.
Sung-tae and Hyang-im Cho were ambitious and apparently educated because after they settled on the still semi-rural outskirts of Seoul, they bought a used-book store. One could make a decent living selling secondhand books in the 1970s, before South Korea’s economy began to boom. But one relative said the bookstore just eked out a profit.
To ease his family’s plight, Sung-tae Cho left his wife behind to be a laborer in the Middle East, working on oil fields and construction sites in Saudi Arabia for most of the 1980s.
Back home, his wife gave birth March 22, 1982, to their daughter, Sun-kyung. On Jan. 18, 1984, Seung-hui was born."
Karma is the teaching about the complexities of human action
your an idi*t goughlewis
Well Sam your a modest little person, with much to be modest about. Keep talking, someday you'll say something intelligent. There's nothing wrong with you that reincarnation won't cure. Too bad stupidity isn't painful.
Keep talking. I always yawn when I'm interested.
Ok Gough, your ignorant banter is still shocking.
I consider this documentary a strong case for owning and carrying a fire arm. A good Smith & Wesson Revolver would be a handy tool to have at ones disposal at Virginia Tech that day, the only sure victim-prevention tool for the victim-to-be. When seconds count, the police arrive in minutes (Or hours). We call the police because they have guns, not pens to document what already happened to us. One should look at fire arms as a last line of defense for your family, or for example, personal self defense from creeps like Cho Seung Hui.
The Virginia Tech Massacre – Cho killed 32 people and wounded another 25. Gun-Control (Read Victim Disarmament) has turned our schools and streets into killing zones. Don’t those darn psychos know that guns are not allowed on campus? Actually, people like Cho do know and that’s why they choose a place like a school campus for a shooting rampage: Sheep to the slaughter, fish in a barrel, sitting ducks, etc.
So, why not carry a Smith & Wesson Revolver that you can protect yourself against criminals/serial killers/mass murder crazies who use guns against you as a deadly extension of their inability to deal with people. Every living creature has the natural right of self-defense. Believe it or not, some people find this argument of carrying a self defense revolver ridiculous. "That is what the police are for", they say, as they argue passionately against your right to bear arms for self defense. I put money on it, those Virginia Tech victims "would have just died for a... Revolver" that day.
According to the FBI, States with 'shall-issue' right-to-carry laws have a 26 percent lower total violent crime rate, a 20 percent lower homicide rate, a 39 percent lower robbery rate and a 22 percent lower aggravated assault rate than those states that do not allow their citizens to legally carry guns.
Final thought, All studies show a dramatic decrease in violent crime when more private citizens are permitted to defend themselves (All of Switzerland for example, also all concealed carry States). Conversely, violent crime rises in direct proportion with the number of gun-control laws as seen in England, Australia, and all states where 2nd amendment rights are denied like California, New York, Illinois, etc.
Armed societies are polite societies, and Switzerland is armed to the teeth with virtually no crime.
Happy Trails,
G
That's the most m0ronic statement have ever heard. Yeah boy, lets arm everyone and revert back to the wild west. I don't want college campuses covered with a bunch of Yosemite Sams looking to save the day from the next psycho. Have you met the average college student?
haha, actually you have a point there Wald0. The average University Student are pretty dumbed down. Still, I believe in the Second Amendment of the Constitution... period. I'd like to see things from your point of view but I can't seem to get my head that far up my ass.
Ya! let's go back to playing cowboys, the US would be the best at the game for sure. Thanks to guys like Charlton Heston, ex-president of the National Rifle Association.
Let's try to make sense here!
az
@az
I'm pretty sure we don't have to go back to playing cowboys, we never stopped. When the US ran out of Native Americans to corral we started to move about the world trying to do the same thing to other cultures. One look at my country and its lopsided poverty plagued condition and it's no wonder that we have to use force in order to bring "our way of life" to others. I like to think, and I could be wrong, that if our founding fathers were still around then there would be a long line of politicians, bankers and corporate leaders waiting on the gallows. My basic idea about all of this? The attitude and actions of the government should be a reflection of its people. Here, the attitudes and actions of our goverment are slowly and insidiously infecting "we the people". The use of violence, deceit, greed, corruption, manipulation and a myriad of other harmful traits are becoming more common place in the daily lives of US citizens. Seeing all of this happening can bring on a feeling of helplessness which causes some to lash out in unpredictable and violent ways. The longer we allow it to happen, the more difficult it will be to change. Sometimes I'm afraid that it's already too late and at other times I'd like to start building those gallows. And just maybe, as a symbolic gesture, I will build one. I really don't know right now.
Sorry mate if no one has guns in the first place then no one needs a gun to defend themselves. Secondly Australia is one of the least likely places to get shot in the world. Violent? maybe if you consider getting a smack in the mouth for being a dick head.
I'm sorry that my belief in the right to have a fire arm for self defense is so "insane" to you. It is a part of the Constitution of the United States of America.
Maybe it's the old Australian Penal Colony head space left over in you from when the British Empire used the entire country as a prison, you certainly don't allow guns in prison, self defense or not. I'd like to leave you with one thought ... but I'm not sure you have a place to put it!
I'm not even going to waste my time trying to argue with you (I think you're deranged). I will only point out that your right to bare (sic) arms gives you the right to short sleeved shirts.
Tom, you must have 911 on speed dial buddy, thank god for the United States Constitution. This is no battle of wits between you and me. I never pick on an unarmed man.
No, you don't get it. It was an attempt at levity at the expense of your poor spelling, vocabulary, or both. The correct spelling is the right to BEAR arms, not BARE arms. You see, when someone writes "(sic)" it informs others that there is an apparent error in the preceding quote. Perhaps English is not your first language, or you can blame your American school system. BTW, in your reply, the correct spelling is right "TO" self defence, not "TOO". Even spell checker will not improve poor grammar.
Thank you Tom, I stand corrected... you would make a great secretary.
I'm all for moving to Switzerland, probably the most Democratic country on the planet, and they apparently don't get involved with wars. . . . and who would bomb it since millions of secret bank accounts are kept there; it must be off limits to attack. Definitely a safe haven from the coming Revolution.
I wanted to reply to your post to me. Yes, 9/11 was beyond reasonable doubt a Demolition which could be proven in an unbiased Court trial. However, suits of that nature against govt (it must be determined by unbiased investigation that govt was at least complicit) are "off the table". Hell, we could be suing the govt for a hundred different breaches of our Constitution if it were allowed.
Govt is too big for their own or any citizen's good.
I'm glad people aren't screaming for more gun control on these forums like they were when this first happened, he could have been a serial stabber as well. Or a bomber, all these "security for liberty" crap is killing me lately. TSA shoving their hands down your pants, no knock raids, sneak and peak with no warrant, American citizens on assassinations list, some being held indefinitely, U.S. torturing Iranian nationals, Bradley Manning, cyber laws, intellectual property rights, all this coming at the same time as they are getting ready to tell you you have to get the DHS's permission to buy firearms as ATF agents openly sell guns to Mexican cartels in operation "fast and furious". Civil liberties are under attack in America, if you think gun control will save you, go to Mexico (heavy gun control, only the criminals get to have the guns) or China (no civilian firearms people are forced in slave labor for the government). "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." ~ Benjamin Franklin
You set up a false choice, either we have the current gun laws or they take all guns. You can still have guns to protect yourself without having fully automatic weapons available or pistols that hold thirty rounds. The shooting that took place in Arizona recently would not have claimed near the number of innocent lives that it did if the guy had of been forced to use a standard clip. Many policeman would still be alive if gun shows didn't create such a loop hole for criminals to buy fully automatic weapons, or to buy weapons with no back ground check what so ever. The NRA pushes for simple access to basic hand guns and so forth when in public, but behind the scenes they want full access to anything they desire- no mater what the consequences are for the rest of America. I hear people saying its their right and they enjoy these guns for a hobby. Are we really that thick and simple, that we would protect a small minorities twisted enjoyment of a destructive hobby even unto the expense of innocent lives? Any one can see that the current gun laws do much more than just provide people with basic access to basic protective weapons. I am all for U.S. citizens that can pass a background check and a mental evaluation having access to basic weaponry that could protect them, but no normal citizen needs a weapon that holds thirty rounds, can shoot through bullet proof barriers, or is fully automatic.
I agree wald0. I live in Mesa AZ which is about 2 hrs north of the Tucson shooting and the gun mentality in this state is surreal. We have federal agents allowing the sale of high powered weapons to Mexican drug cartels and citizens arming themselves to the teeth partially because of drug runners with high powered weapons! NEWSFLASH - As smugglers rely on stealth, the last thing they want is a gun fight with innocent people and even more so with authorities. Kind of defeats their goal doesn't it?
I thank our Governor for refusing to sign a bill that would allow firearms to be carried on college campuses; a bill passed by our neo-conservative legislature and opposed by the majority of AZ residents. We don't need 100 or so students returning fire on a mad man. Instead of 200 rounds there would have been a thousand or more fired from every direction and headed in every direction.
A very loud burglar alarm deters most would be home invaders. However If a person does need a firearm for protection then he/she should be trained well enough to do the job with a dual action revolver or a shotgun not an AK-47. A rifle that, among other things, can be made fully automatic with a twist tie off a loaf of bread.
But I digress...
What's the solution? I wish I knew. I do know where to start though. When a disturbed person, such as this student or the ones before him, goes on a rampage, many people point their finger at "society" like it was some far away and unchangeable force. Look in the mirror folks, you, me, family, friends, neighbors, we all make up this thing called "society" and I can only change my part in it while helping others to do the same. And then, only if they're interested.
Apathy is always the beginning of the end. We are well on our way.
I recall that the day of the mass killing in the Virginia Tech, I felt extremely disturbed and sad. And I was 12'000 km away, at college. I sent a mail to VT and told them that all of my colleagues and I felt that day we all belong to VT. Universities have historically been a place for reason and understanding and no arms have been ever allowed in the campuses. All the best from Spain.
i think access of information from school to school regarding the mental health issues of a student should not be private, if someone needs to be taken care of then the schools have a responsibility to pass that information along. This i feel was the weakest link in protecting him and others around him from doing what he did to hurt so many people. by continuing what little psychiatric help he was getting from school to school he could have maintained a level of observation to have kept him from the event at Virginia tech. it is not the access to guns to that allowed this to happen as you can see, ...every one has access to guns and this type of event a cures to a very rare or to even a unique event. do not blames guns, .. blame the lack of care we actually have for our fellow human beings around us as a society. what happened was very tragic, what could have happened was that, that kid be forced to remain on his treatment to keep him from either from entering the school altogether or to have helped him maintain a grip on reality and help the Doctors keep a better eye on his mental health condition
As i see the case, he was not enough external psychotic to be recoginsed by the authorities (teachers, doctors, mates, parents etc.)
Ok, maybe some informations were not sufficient evaluated, but he disguise his latter violant nature very good.
I think the rejection of his society (fellows, teachers, women) did hurt him most. And this is something which you cant avoid, even with the best sense of sensibility. Besides there were some people who tried to help him, but he learnd to veil his intentions.
You cant change the cruelties (the obvious and the hidden) in a society but you can change the law in order to hamper such a massacre.
Imagine for a moment, everybody is allowed to bear a gun, in school , on work, in discos, everywhere.
What do you think would happen in the world?
I know , its very exaggerated but its only a picture what people would do if they had enough "power" in an argue for example.
I cant understand many americans why they advocate there holy weapons, i dont say you do it, but many others.
good idea we should disarm the police also...after all if no guns made or allowed, nobody needs to get shot....
wrong.
crims will buy guns illegally and make them also, they are easy to make....a crazy kid unable to buy a gun or steal a gun will just make a gun...which in itself is worse because their lies the potential for kids all secretly making guns in their spare time because its cool and bad ass....without ever learning and gun discipline....so the last thing you want is to flood teenage society with "how to build your own gun" manuals and them running around secretly showing of their cool home made toys.
The law cant stop gun movement, only get itself shot trying.
the reason cops have guns is because they would all be dead if they didnt...civs not being loaded up with guns makes little sense as the cops always arrive to late.
yet when the victims are armed, things often turn out for the better....doesnt mean everyone should be walking around armed, but the ability to own a gun is a massive deterrent when crims expect you to have one.
In my country were after 1 incident, guns restrictions came in and crime rate had previously been going down for over a decade was undone in 1 year flat and has continued to increase ever since then.
all because crims know civs are now mostly un-armed.
additionally why is it so easy for military to gain control of a nation and do bad things to its people....because there always mostly unarmed...when the civs are armed it acts as a deterrent against government corruption and so forth...and is needed when as ALWAYS government go corrupt to the core, to revolt and replace them....such is the need in most democratic countries now anyways...a corrupt gov does its best to disarm its people so they don't pose a threat against its corrupt control...obviously...nothing to do with protection...to disarm is to become vulnerable.... that's why an army exists, because otherwise the nation would be vulnerable...there is always a Hitler, but such as what the US and nato are doing...thats pure idiocy and genocide....not what a army should be used for...defence, not greedy aggression.
The rejection of his society or his rejection of society?
Corcoran, the second amendment is a constitutional right. I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid.
I agree, he probably did understand more than most what is happening to America and the world, but also they skipped over the fact that he was on antipsychotic drugs, which is sure to rewire your brain temporary or permantly
I was also waiting for them to bring that up, actually.
Very sad story about an invisible outsider who transformed into a monster.
Once again this is an opportunity to rethink the access of weapons in the USA.
Once again this is an opportunity to be a Constitutionalist.
Thing is, either way, if someone really wants a gun, they're going to find themselves a gun. The people who really want a gun will be 100% willing to go to the black market to get it, therefore supporting criminals.
Just like people who want to, quick example, smoke weed. The government can try it's hardest to pointlessly ban the plant, but all prohibition ends up doing is creating an underground market, funds gangs/drug-dealers/criminals and it isn't stopping anybody from smoking the darn thing if they so choose.
Insecure and yet super arrogant. Very bad combo. Sad it came to this... but with ALL the warning signs, they failed to recognize it. Why? There is no money in helping people. Society IS sick, just look at the coming economic collapse. The wars. I am very concerned.
Cho may represent many that are isolated and war torn. Even if he may had been a privileged college kid. The human mind is complex. This incident will go down in history for many psychologists to mull over.
Social isolation in one can trigger devastating acts.
On a few levels, this case reminded me of the Port Arthur Massacre.
If you investigated the Port Arthur tragedy again, you may find more than meets the eye. Cho was nothing like Martin Bryant. Furthermore, Bryant could not have carried out the deeds he is accused of; Cho was, by all accounts, incredibly intelligent, although disturbed. Martin was a clinically defined retard, with an IQ of 65 and the demeanor of a 12 year old. (who refused to fire guns at glass bottles. He instead opted for paper targets, so as not to injure any animals - this was one of the few lines the police allowed to be printed in transcripts from their 8 months of interviews with Bryant, who was held in solitary confinement, until he admitted his guilt, at the insistence of a government appointed lawyer). According to the story, Martin, in the first 90 seconds of his attack had killed 20 people, with 29 bullets; 21 were shot in the head, one survived. Another 10 were wounded by bullets exiting bodies. Brigadier General George Serong claimed the massacre demonstrated a clinical display of shooting capabilities, that were much greater than his, and he posited that no more than 30 men in the world could have pulled off such an attack. Cho, obviously much more intelligent, fired 200 rounds in half an hour, and needed 4, 5 or 6 bullets to finish off his 32 innocent victims, who were locked in class rooms. Please do not tarnish an innocent man with the deeds of another, without conclusive evidence. Bryant must be exonerated.
I'm tarnishing a guilty man, but each to their own.
To thus clarify then, I was contemplating about the AMOUNT of people's lives taken randomly by a gun man on a mad rampage-whatever their motives/psychological state of mind. I'm sure there are other cases with such magnitude of victims, however the Port Arthur massacre came to my mind.