Jesus Camp
The feverish spectacle of a summer camp for evangelical Christian kids is the focus of Jesus Camp, a fascinating if sometimes alarming documentary. (Shortly after its release, the movie gained a new notoriety when Ted Haggard, president of the National Association of Evangelicals, who appears near the end of the film, resigned his post amid a male prostitute's allegations of drug use and sexual misconduct.)
For most of the film, we follow a charismatic teacher, Becky Fischer, as she trains young soldiers in "God's Army" at a camp in North Dakota. Some of the kids emerge as likable and bright, and eager to continue their work as pint-sized preachers; elsewhere, the visions of children speaking in tongues and falling to the floor in ecstasy are more troubling. Even more arresting is the vision of a generation of children home-schooled to believe that the Bible is science, or Fischer's certainty that America's flawed system of democracy will someday be replaced by a theocracy. (In one scene, a cardboard cut-out of George W. Bush is presented to the children, who react by laying their hands on the figure as though in a religious procession.)
Filmmakers Heidi Ewing and Rachel Grady maintain neutrality about all this, maybe too much so (they throw in some interviews with radio host Mike Papantonio to provide a liberal-Christian viewpoint) and one would like to know more about the grown-ups presented here. Power broker Haggard is the creepiest person in the film, an insincere smooth talker whose advice to one of the young would-be campgoers comes across as entirely cynical. Time will tell whether the film's Christian soldiers will be marching onward.
Josiah is an id**t.
5 min in and I think Im gonna be sick. I was raised in evangelical church in Canada, and this is NOT true Christianity... it is fundamentalist nonsense, control and exploitation.
I was raised catholic and personally find this film extremely sad. And I wasn't even looking at it from an athiest or agnostic view. It was disturbing that they all kept using the word "training" as opposed to learning or growing because soldiers don't think for themselves, they just follow orders. I grew up surrounded by religion, but it was never forced on to me. At my church, in my 18 years of going there every Sunday, never has the priest mentioned homosexuality nor preached hatred for any group of people.
I also found it pretty disturbing that the girl thought that you had to be jumping around screaming at God in order for him to hear you. There are so many ways to pray, and not everyone connects to God in the same way. I prefer the quiet and I often can't focus when there's too much going on around me. That girl has no understanding of other religions or denominations, and you could probably guarantee that she's never been to another church but her own. The fact that she thought she knew who had faith and who didn't based on their method of prayer was pretty frickin sad.
It also blew my mind when that mother was saying that science wasn't important nor even made sense. These people must not understand that not every part of the bible should be taken literally. Evolution is pretty much a solid fact by now, and ignoring science is wild to me. Also, when did the word "radical" garner a positive connotation?
I love how they request "let the electricity no go out in jesus' name" like dude, why not say "let's help the starving" but hey what do you get when people follow this dumbass fable? you get republicans, tea party members, and not to mention criminal psychopaths who use "because the lord said so" as an excuse
As an Atheist, I have no problems with Christianity. There's nothing wrong with believing in what you would like to believe in, it is a humanitarian right to have a belief. However, being an insecure, middle-aged, brainwashing, fear inducing, blind, and weak woman that manipulates the very core foundation of the children is more than wrong, it is taking away just about every chance of functioning normally within society from them, and mar their personality and actions, day by day. The cult they represent is almost as ugly as the putrid living disgrace they call a "woman". I rarely, if ever, do feel pity for anyone, though, these children will never have an opportunity to live a normal life, or even have the opportunity of deciding for themselves how to integrate religion into their lives, as it is binding to their beliefs that anything but what they believe is "evil". I place ultimate putrefaction on this "woman".
Interesting.
I'm christian and I think this is messed up, very. I was glad to hear this camp was shut down soon after this doc aired. A lot of these posts hate on christians but I really hope you don't think we are all like this.. otaku *COUGH*
BTW I came here because I heard this is were Levi from Shingeki no Kyojin got his name, Anyone know if that's true?
I'm christian and I think this is messed up. Very. I hope a lot of you people watching this don't think all of us are like this... I'm an Otaku xD Its like what that guy on the radio show is saying, these people have their own messed up, distorted views.
BTW I got here because I heard this is where Levi from Shingeki no Kyojin got his name.
I lost my respect for christianity when I was a small child. It began with the song "Onward Christian Soldiers Marching as to War." I'm not down with that. The real history of this religion is so full of hate and killing that it's laughable anyone would treat it seriously as a means to peace. Sorry to the faithful. I mean you no harm. I am after all an atheist. We don't preach celestial vengeance.
I lost my respect for christianity when I was a small child. It began with the song "Onward Christian Soldiers Marching as to War." I'm not down with that. The real history of this religion is so full of hate and killing that it's laughable anyone would treat it seriously as a means to peace. Sorry to the faithful. I mean you no harm. I am after all an atheist. We don't preach celestial vengeance.
This woman could use a fast or two... just sayin'. Maybe she should celebrate Ramadan as well. Couldn't hurt. Oh, by the way, this is the 666th post! Go figure...
Probably the only way a tune like 'Onward' could've ever gotten through to me would've been if Jaco had done a take off on it. Then you know it would've been monumentally kick a$$.
Truly terrifying how indoctrination and brainwashing can truly ruin an innocent child by feeding lies to encourage not questioning or thinking otherwise.
A bible camp in Devil's Lake. That's irony if I've ever seen it.
It would be GREAT if they followed up with these kids, like the 7-Up Series. It's a little sad. They're all so smart and enthusiastic. I'd like to know what they're like at 20 or if they're still anti -science. To see that little girl punish herself for joyful DANCING OF THE FLESH - sign. I want he to go to broadway and knock em dead.
She's really espousing terrorism on anyone who isn't Christian. No different than suicide bombers. They think they're RIGHT, too.
I think a lot of these people just dig the spotlight. Particularly the mullet kid. He's got the fame bug. We'll see what happens. I see absolutely no difference in JESUS CAMP than Chairman Mao. The point is to push theocracy and that IS just disgusting.
lol the hypocrisy. Obese woman talking about fasting! Wow...
This video is shocking even after watching it several times. I love that the guy on the radio talk show in the beginning said that he was a Christian and even he was shocked by these people. This is a fear based society that breeds fear. Child services should be called in on some of these parents.
Watched again for the 100th time. This doc Always lifts me up and reminds me of the most important thing in my life - God.
are you serious? this is a movie about how extreme religion being taught to kids like this is a form of child abuse.
if you think anything being taught here is true or "good" then you are a sick person like Becky Fischer.
You are obviously not a Pentacostal or Evangelical. Those children were happy and content because they have a personal relationship with Jesus - it's beautiful. And you are wrong that this movie is about "extreme religion." You should watch some interviews with the two female Directors of this documentary. They left it up to the audience to decide what it all meant. My experience as an Evangelical was that it was beautiful and inspiring. But I can definitely appreciate that many people have not been exposed to the way we worship. I'm sure speaking in tounges and shouting out to The Lord amongst other things looks scary - but it's not. We try to connect to the Holy Spirit in an openly physical and emotional way. There is an estimated 50 million Evangelicals in America. A lot of people worship this way.
Glossolalia is one of the funnier bits of this nutty religion (redundant phrase, I know).
I suppose it might be scary if I knew someone that thought they were actually speaking something other than nonsense.
Makes for good TV, just like falling backwards on cue.
its delusional brainwashing of children. Its disgusting and you have been brainwashed to think its something wonderful. There is nothing i can say to help you. you are too far gone.
I have a wonderful life, your help is not needed, but thank you.
you have a wonderful life just like a robot who doesnt think for themselves.
Talk about tolerance jeez. You wouldn't talk to a gay person like this. Why attack him?
what does homosexuality have to do with anything?
The person is defending this child abuse. it is disgusting.
> Those children were happy and content because they have a personal relationship with Jesus.
Jesus is a fictional character in some very bad comic books. You can't have a "personal relationship" with a fictional character. You might as well have a personal relationship with Batman. I'll stick to reality.
But you don't have to do things like speaking in tongues to connect with the holy spirit. You don't have to do some of those crazy things.
I was raised this way. This camp is no different than those I went to as a child. At the time, I felt like a pretty normal kid. My parents were just stricter than most. Looking back, and watching this video, I do feel it is extreme. These children are a bit too young to form opinions of their own and ask important questions. However, parents that truly
believe in something, religious or not, will try and raise their children to believe the same thing. Can't really blame them. Unfortunately, majority of people are not open minded and perhaps our bipartisan country is to blame. Most Americans are expected to conform to one party or the other. Two parties. That's it. And yet we wonder why people are so extreme. Anyway, I turned out okay. Relatively. Haha. But I wouldn't blame the church. It did teach discipline and compassion. I'm an educated 30 year old woman and I do believe
in God. I may not attend these kinds of churches anymore, but I do have a faith. I don't think I have contributed ignorance or bigotry to this country because I was "indoctrinated." To the contrary, I have always given back to my country, volunteered in my communities, served the underprivileged and facilitated conversations on tolerance. This is what the church taught me. Lastly, these kids seem pretty content, happy and at peace. Granted, ignorance is bliss, but they'll grow up and learn. Hopefully they will carry a peace with
them throughout life and not end up medicated for depression and anxiety like so many of our youth, including those not raised in a "Jesus Camp"
This was extremely disturbing... Should be considered a form of child abuse. Those poor children :(
The absence of evidence that God does exist is not evidence that God is absent :P
...But neither is it proof that god exists.
But it isn't proof he doesn't either.
The absence of evidence that Bigfoot exists is not evidence that Bigfoot is absent.
The absence of evidence that Batman exists is not evidence that Batman is absent.
The absence of evidence that Zeus exists is not evidence that Zeus is absent.
You can do this endlessly. So what?
kids should never ever be subjected to religion of any kind, its too easy to brainwash a kid
34:00 Nestle brand holy water?
Training camp for 'Children of the Corn'
Bring back the lions!
While this documentary is disturbing, and while I'm certainly no fan of indoctrinating children, some of the responses of atheists are just as scary. Absolutely, there have been horrific things done in the name of religion, and no, there's no way to prove there's a god. The scientific method AND just plain native intelligence requires that people keep an open mind about things they don't have an answer for. One could easily make the argument that relativity, say, was false until recently, because there was no proof of its existence. Admittedly, the odds of the existence of God being proved are very slight. The odds of disproving the existence of God are far worse, however. For me, agnosticism seems a reasonable stance, while atheism is just another blind faith.
the odds of disproving a undisprovable thing is like saying disprove there is a teapot orbiting Jupiter a teapot too small to be seen by telescopes, you cant disprove big foot but the odds of him existing are very low, the burden of proof is on the religious to prove god ,not on the atheist to disprove,
its like asking you to disprove the teapot instead of asking me to prove it exists first
Jesus camp....located at Devils Lake??....Just saying.
"Fat and lazy" she says... Oh the irony.
This scares me more than any horror movie
highly disturbing especially that creepy old bastard taping kids mouths and that lady admitting what she is doing is indoctrination.
how if you don't read the bible does your spirit get weaker, surely it just wouldn't get stronger
I just dont understand how so many so called intelligent people can't see that religion was designed to control the less intelligent in society and keep them in line. It's terrifying that this nonsense still exists and is believed in spite of being slapped in the face with FACTS!!
One third of our U.S. population believes in this hardcore
bs. This is child abuse, pure and simple.
So her reaction to kids being indoctrinated in the Middle East isn't "wow, that's pretty f***** up", it's "wow, we really need to get on their level".
I would've loved to see her face when she heard Obama got reelected.
Exactly! She is all for Christian Jihad against non believers.
Despite the film's attempts to maintain neutrality, the filmmakers had an opinion. There is a slight bias towards the creepy. That being said, I have to agree with them. It is creepy. I have no issue with teaching children about God or even with Becky's enthusiasm for raising a generation of children who are motivated to go and make positive change in the world. But the overt political message of many of Becky's sermons gives her whole effort a sinister undertone. It's not about teaching children about faith and the love of God anymore; it's about raising children who will conform to an extreme conservative viewpoint.
I have never understood the fundamentalist Christian desire to control politics and essentially outlaw anything they don't approve of. If your church does not support abortion, your members are free to abstain from getting abortions. That's their choice. It's disturbing to see them indoctrinating children to actively fight to take away the ability of anyone to get an abortion. The church should never have that much power.
The discussion about this documentary shouldn't stray into whether or not God exists. What people believe is what they will believe. However, we do need to discuss the extent to which religion affects politics and how some groups are using children to accomplish their political goals. That is really what is at stake here.
Creepy is right. I don't recognize this kind of Christianity. I was raised to love one another. Why so anti science? How does keeping children ignorant help them? Why preach that they want their country BACK when it's a new country to kids. They are not preaching love and hope but hate and fear.
Would someone truly please show me some real proof of the exzistance of "god"? And im not talking about some cheese miracle or a near death experience or how you were cured of cancer or some other illness by the hands of god healing you. Please people if you really look into it there are hundreds of thousands of things scientifically that could be the reason you were cured or "Saved"! Im sorry but do you see people go out every day and read a book then believe that the main character is a all powerful being??? In my opinion the bible was wrote by a group of teenagers, Simply because if you really read it what are the biggest parts, Sex,violence,nudity..to me that clearly came from the mind of say a 15-18 year old person then they started running around telling there story and people were stupid enough to believe in them because of how well they managed create the story through there words....even then im sure people were desprit enough in there mind to make this 'Story' seem true and to believe in what they were saying. Also just a fun fact..if you look into it apparently the story in the bible has happened oh...8 times and they were all far before the time of this man called Jesus.
As for me i can not wait for the day when science proves completely that there is no god, or the day that we find life on other planets. Because not only will if completely destroy all forms of religion that believe in "God" but it will end century long conflicts and i wont ever have to listen to bible humpers at school or anywhere again!!
I'm sorry you have not had a good experience in this area. As a youth, I left the church because there was a person there I thought was mean. God made Himself known to me when I was 36, and what a difference He has made in my life, & now that I'm 60, how I regret I didn't know all this as a young person.
If you truly want to know if He is real & know Him if He is, ask Him to show you. If you were to talk to a godly person who KNOWS Scripture, you would open the door to knowing for yourself. I used feel as you do, but I was "blind". God loves you & doesn't want you to perish. We have either 2 births, or 2 deaths. One physically & one spiritually. I urge you to be open & allow Him to prove Himself to you.
God isn't proven or not proven - each person must learn for himself. I did not quit going to dentists after I went to a dentist who was crooked & didn't do the job right.
But if every dentist ever couldnt fix youre teeth and told you that dentistry wirked by tooth faries fixing your teeth, and no tooth faries were ever shown to have existed, you would stop going to the dentist and believing in faries till they could show you a farie , or the effect if a farie
Priests tell you they have knowledge of god and that god can do things to affect our lives, neither have been shown to exist, the gods or effects of god, so it is UNREASONABLE to believe in a god and preists are unreliable , just like the farie dentists
The only response by believers is that if you believe youll believe.
1. Thats circular reasoning
2. Im asking(and most atheists are) WHY we should believe that your claims are true, its not up to the atheist to prove you wrong is up to you to prove your right , i wouldn't ask you to prove an invisible undetectable dragon lives under my house, you would ask me " how do you know" and i replied "i know becuase i know" or "becuase i read it in a book" you would rightly ask for more evidence than "you have to believe in the dragon , if you believe in the dragon youll believe in the dragon "
If you asked for more evidence than my belief the dragon is real,and i got angry and said the dragon is real and you should believe its true because the dragon is real an i feel his hot dragoney spirit inside my, you would rightly walk away not believing in my dragon and thinking me insane.
And yet the religious claim i should do the same i should believe because of belief, because if i do i will, but most atheists care more about the truth and ask why, why should we believe in the dragon/fareies/god
Why should i trust the preists/farie dentists/crazy dragon guy , that have never shown thier magic monster is real and repeatedly shown that they cant do dentistry or cant tell you how they know the dragon is real
If you wont believe in my dragon in the basement
Or tooth faries that fix your teeth
Why should i believe in you sky god in the clouds
Give me ONE good reason that i cant use to prove my dragon
A single piece of evidence that can be verified and tested, ill need more than that to convince me but a SINGLE piece of evidence would be nice
You want real proof of God's existence, well you won't find it because God is in the hearts of His people. His spirit is alive, and He only exists in that form on this earth. This world belongs to satan and so shall it burn with all its problems and evils. If you really want to know God I suggest you stop listening to and focusing on all the bad things and find out the truth. God calls people individually and so no one comes to God until they have been called. It may be hard to understand it now, but opportunities will come where you can get to know Him, don't lose those opportunities and don't be afraid. Most people say nasty things about God because they are afraid in one way or another, they want answers for things, and they want cures, and they want all these things without first knowing who God is. The only proof of God you will find is in the true faithful, and honestly there isn't many of those people left in todays world, this is why suffering has increased.
so god exists because his followers think he exists,
i could make the same argument for the flying spaghetti monster[FSM](May he touch you with his noodley appendage)
you can only know his noodlyness in the hearts of his followers,you can know his meatballyness if you stop shutting your eyes and trust in his noodles,
most poeple are just afraid of his saucyness, "It may be hard to understand it now, but opportunities will come where you can get to know Him"(his carbohydrate rich majesty).
the world is made by the antipasta: the ninja(bringer of the apastalypse)"and so shall it burn with all its problems and evils"
"The only proof of [flying spaghetti monster] you will find is in the true faithful "
"[FSM] calls people individually and so no one comes to [his tastiness] until they have been called. "
unlike your god we have proof: pastafarianism(the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or church of FSM) has predicted that the lack of pirates would cause global temperatures to rise, pirates have gone down,temperatures have risen, therefore FSM(flying spaghetti monster) is real
exactly the arguments you made just replaced GOD with FSM (and made clever puns on names)
may he touch you with his noodly appendage
and may pesto be upon you
and may we meet on the slopes of the beer volcano in heaven
r'Amen
-the holy prophet madmidgitz of bobby mountain
ps. @wyatt youre making atheists look stupid,@everyone else most athiests come to the godless view of the world through reason plz dont judge us from wyatt, i wont judge all of you[religious folks] for jesus camp, ill just judge the nutbags in the movie
Jesus existed, there is scientific proof. And Jesus is God. Therefore, God exists. Plain and simple.
I've seen this documentary several times now and it still creeps me out. It's bizarre that in the 21st century teach their kids creationism. It's ridiculous. I wonder what they tell their kids when they go to a natural history museum or a zoo.The praying to the cardboard cutout was weird. However, I think hardcore atheists are just as kooky and weird. You've got one group saying "god is the only way to save the world, he created heaven and earth..yada yada yada" then you have the other group saying "God doesn't exist and religion is killing the world....rinse repeat" Both complain about being persecuted and say they're being denied the right to practice whatever religion/lack of religion by the members of the opposite group. I think both are pretty ridiculous.
They probably want those kids to be like that, without the ability of critical thinking, so when they grow up, they will be rich people's slaves, obey orders without questioning
Haha and the documentary about the bigbang that the children are watching doesn't make any sense at all. Is it really legal to show children crap like that?
The fat woman sounds like a manipulative dictator. Can't be good...
that woman knows that gluttony is one of the 7 deadly sins? and has she forgotten that her body is a temple of the holy spirit? maybe go easier on the cheeseburgers, idk
in a way i respect that they are taking an active interest in the development of their children.
I don't have an hour and twenty minutes to spend on this crap.
God in the beginning its like christian dumbledore's army only scarier ..And less cool.
That fat bitch in the stripy top would do well to give up the big mac's and give up this child abuse she is a disgusting brain washing pig.
Just another crazy cult.
I can see where you're coming from. I am what you would call a christian as well, but I don't like the way they are talking to those children. Yes, it reminds me a little of brainwashing. This is not the way of God. God's way is love. His way is that we receive his love and give of that love to others.
Knowing Christ is not about following orders like a robot. Knowing Christ is about a relationship with a loving Father. A loving Father that is perfect, better than any father you could dream of.
Our earthly parents do have good sides and they have given us love, some more than others, but no human is perfect. Our earthly parents have made mistakes and they have hurt us in a small or big way. But God wants to show us that he has always been there. Every person has their own unique story. I don't know yours, or anyone else's, but I know one who knows. He knows exactly what you've been through, and he knows exactly what you need to restore what has been broken. When you cry, he cries. When you laugh he laughs, when you smile he smiles.
In the presence of God you'll find peace, freedom, laughter and joy, comfort, healing, rest, strength, depending on your circumstance. You'll find love if you let him.
ok, just a question. are you male or female? weird question I know:S :P
I would just like to point out that Harry Potter isn't a warlock, or a real person..... he is a fictional character from a book of fiction... kinda like god....
This documentary is terrifying.
I agree this is scary and kind of ignore. But that's my idea. But only because of the somethings they believe. Bush isn't that great look at Katrina. Bush slowed down the evcaulation of the few that could get it to put them to airport security. (watch Nature of Fear goes more into this subject and many others) the main problem i have with some of they sayings is that they aren't using it in the right contact. I'm sure the Founding Father's a good historian or a smart person on the street. Will tell you this Country was base on frees and not just good. I'm sure we would all say hey stop stealing my stuff or dude don't murder not cool with out this religion And guess what we did Like the Polo Egyptians and Greeks ( a.k.a. real basics of American Government) as "Land Under God" That doesn't mean just your god but every religions god or gods !!! yes with a yes. And why are these kids learning about the Pro Life movement when they don't even know about SEX First off there 3-12 years old. I personal wouldn't of never told a 3 year old unless thy heard of it and ask me or had a sexual tram. And there parents are probably never told them about sex and protection and that type of things. And that comment about the Islamic things No not Islamic don't teach there kids how to do that. Only GROUPS OF RADICAL THINKER DO like.....ADOLF HITLER ! and to be true it looks like what you've doing too. Kids shouldn't be doing tradition war dances that young. Yes i know at lot of places in history start it young traditional. But NOT before there teenage years. This does seem brain washing to a point. I get your trying to keep yourself your children the country and etc safe and on a patch you think is right. SO is everyone else even if it's not with God or one god or no god at all. But we all are just trying to live on this earth together. Just remember we're all different we all live on this earth And we all agree on Chicken. Yes I got that from Homer Simson but it's true we all do agree on chicken....But Vegetarians. So everyone let your Freak Flag Fly have fun and be safe and happy. Just remember that Thank you to anyone who cares to read my rant. :)
The sheer ignorance is terrifying. Another day shall begin where I'm grateful I wasn't born in the US.
That was one of the scariest documentaries I have ever watched. I respect Christianity, but there comes a point where enough is enough. Leave kids alone and allow them to have their own thoughts.
Once these pastors start talking about government THEY DESERVED TO BE TAXED
Yeah no more abortions! yeah only god can take lives! except the 500,000 iraqi children killed during the iraq war... thats different cause bush said it was cool.
this is literally the most disturbing thing I have ever seen in my life. Brainwashing children thats despicable.
Documentary Review: Jesus Camp
Jesus Camp is a documentary (from 2006) about Becky Fischer, an extreme Evangelical preacher of Christ, training the new promised generation of young Evangelical Christians at the Christian camp called “Kids on Fire School of Ministry”. Becky’s goal is to raise an army of God, dubbed “God’s Army” that is equivalent of the (by all personal opinion of Becky herself) army that the Muslims are raising themselves (An army of a new generation). Becky claims that the Muslims in the Middle East are training their children at the age of five to handle grenades and machine guns, therefore they should also start teaching the children about the power of God at a young age. Fundamentally, Becky is teaching the group of children at the summer camp to have extreme opinions about Christ the Son of God.
In the end, the true face of Becky Fischer was revealed. “Make war with them”, “this means war, this means war, this means war, are you a part of it or not”. These quotes were said without context. However, simply by judging the tone of these messages, Becky is not a preacher of peace and harmony.
This documentary is unlike any other documentaries about Christ and Christianity. By looking at the methods of the teacher, Becky (cause), and the way the children behave (effect/outcome), it seems like the process of “brain-washing” has taken place. The evidences of this form of “brain-washing” are from scarring scenes of when children go into a trance and try to speak using a lot of tongue, when all the kids cry because they believe they have sinned and have become impure, and when one of the kids fell on the floor and started to have spasms in the entire body in ecstasy of the presence of Christ (according to the Evangelical Christians, Christ is present and with them), just to name a few incidents.
Another unordinary thing that happened was their reverence to President Bush. They believe that he is a holy man and it is thanks to him that Christianity has flourished so much over the past few years in America. Aside from the “holy deeds” by Bush, the kids also learnt to stress the importance of God over others. To paraphrase the little evangelical girl, she couldn’t care less about what other people think regarding what she does, only God matters, she only cares about what God thinks because God is the sole decider of her fate. The same girl also claimed that the other churches (other branches of Christianity) are “dead churches” because they are dull, they sing, but aren’t active. From this one can only assume that the kids have been taught that the other branches of Christianity are tolerable, but only Evangelical Christianity is truly right. These Evangelical Christians seem to have been blinded by obsession (for example: An adult said that Bush is with them, brings up the card board figure of Bush, and everyone is revering the card board paper and touching it) and that this is more serious than anyone can imagine.
-EdwardSC
Only in America, Eh??
Hi everyone! My name is Archit and I wrote up a little movie review for anyone interested:
Jesus Camp is a documentary about an evangelical summer camp called “Kids on Fire School of Ministry”. The film also adds in footage from a Children’s Prayer Conference and a radio talk show called the “Ring of Fire”. Essentially, the documentary provides a brief look into a facet of America’s evangelical community. It was particularly interesting (and slightly frightening) for me to see kids as young as nine years old being indoctrinated into a particular way of thinking. Specifically, the movie narrows down its scope to three kids— Levi, Rachael, and Victoria— who are devout Christians attending the summer camp. Levi is interesting because he is very vocal about his hopes for the future (one of them being becoming a preacher). In addition, he is homeschooled by his mom, who teaches him that creationism is the only plausible beginning to the world, global warming is only a political hypothesis, and other such things. Rachael is probably one of my favorite characters of the documentary because she seems so earnest in her thoughts and actions. When we are first introduced to her, she prays to Jesus before she bowls, asking him for a strike. Then she throws a gutter ball. A short while later, she hands a Christian pamphlet to another woman at the bowling alley (and later tells the camera that God told her to do it). The third character, Victoria, I also found pretty interesting because she uses music and dance as a way to get close to God and show her devotion to Him. In essence, the movie uses interviews and footage to show the indoctrination of these kids (and others like them) into a specific mode of thinking.
All three kids are very honest in their belief of God. While the documentary seems to be trying to suggest that these kids are being brainwashed by the camp (by showing some very extreme scenes and juxtaposing them with scenes of the moderate talk show host asserting that the extremists of the Church are taking it in the wrong direction), some of the scenes with these children seem to suggest that they are thankful for the belief the camp has provided them with. Still, I must admit that no matter how happy and earnest they seemed, I can’t quite get over the fact that they are being molded into a particular way of thinking. Especially considering the relative freedom I have been given to muse over the different religions (and muse over my opinions on life in general), it is a little frightening to see such fervor at such a young age. It seems to me, that Fischer— the woman who runs the camp— believes that the means justify the ends. She honestly seems to think that her actions are protecting the kids from the flaming inferno of Hell. While I find such passion admirable, I disagree with her. I believe that it is wrong to give impressionable children one doctrine and call it the truth. I believe that everyone, especially kids, should be given the privilege of pondering the truth for themselves and deciding what they want to believe in. Also, the church goes farther than just religion and instructs the kids on social issues like homosexuality, abortion, and even political elections. All in all, I think this camp is wrong because it is manipulating its importance in the community and using it to advance its own (IMHO: small-minded) opinions.
I think most moderate and educated viewers would agree with me that this camp is not teaching its kids in the best way. But I also think it is important to go back to the issue of the filmmakers biases. Throughout the entire movie, the filmmakers are inserting their bias, in varying levels, against the camp. It is obvious that they do not like the nature of such “Kids on Fire”. Sometimes, by piecing together scenes in a certain order and putting eerie music behind it, they are trying to show a certain viewpoint. Obviously, this cannot be stopped in the razzmatazz world of Hollywood, but it did lessen the impact of the movie for me. For example, the movie pairs clips of kids with war paint dancing to a Christian song with the kids “speaking in tongues”, muttering an unintelligible prayer. Right before this, Fischer talked about making these kids “as committed to Jesus as Palestinian kids are to Islam”. The filmmakers make it seem like she is the Christian version of militant Islamic extremists, when she is actually just trying to say that she wants devout Christian kids (like there are devout Muslims in the world). Many people would agree that Fischer and her cohorts are terrible people, but it is important to note that the movie has a particular bias that it is injecting into the audience. Overall however, I really liked the movie and its look into this evangelical Christian community.
If you have a chance, listen to the commentary of the two film-makers. I think you will gain more insight into their "biases" and why they filmed certain things.
There are several instances where they express their admiration for Becky, though they do not share the same faith. They respected her honesty, energy, and, however we may disagree with her methods, the fact that she DOES care for these kids. They did not find her to be a "phony" in any way.
The only person where they were filming who made them uncomforatable was Ted Haggard (and this was filmed before that scandal broke). You will have to have the DVD to do it, but I suggest you listen to their commentary. They would likely say that their bias was as curious (but not hostile) outsiders.
How come everything else that is sold and advertised has to have a warning on the pack?I'm just wondering because intelligence obviously ain't promoted with this product so sooner or later someone's definitely going to get hurt!
All religion keeps people restrained, it keeps them in a box and limits their minds. Everything is written and said BY MAN....it is all man made for 1000 different reasons, if you follow any religion you are doing nothing other than following some fool and his words.
These children are extremely intelligent for their age and I think it's really kind of sad that their minds are being filled with nonsense and that they are being disallowed from a real education by their parents who keep them out of schools.
That also is distressing. Education is supposed to be about learning how to reason for oneself. Learning how to think. Not just being filled with facts (and a political agenda, which I found more disturbing that the tenets of faith. They are never told that there are other Christians who even think differently than they do. It would be interesting to see how they turn out as adults.
I consider myself to be a disciple of Jesus Christ and this documentary has absolutely nothing to do with Jesus Christ. It is not God who is responsible for all the lies and destruction that are taking place in the world and it is not God who is causing people to speak in tongues in this manner. It's all the work of Satan to lie and deceive and trick us all. It's only by Gods Grace that we can see what is really going on, a spiritual war between Jesus and Satan for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places Ephesians 6:12. Please pray for these children to be protected and loved in a Godly way and for them to be brought out of such oppression. Please pray for the parents to realize that they are leading their children down a deadly path and please pray for them to all realize that it's not the Holy Spirit leading them in their gibberish tongues, it's the spirit of Satan. Please also pray that the pastor who is misleading the youth will have her eyes opened to Gods Truth and realize that she is leading these kids down a very wrong path. Peace and blessings to you all :)
it is always funny to see the comments on these types of pages because you have Christians defending their faith nobly and other people who are not Christians claiming sometimes facts and other times crap they heard somewhere. the fact is, if your going make a stab a Jesus, read the Bible first and from cover to cover. and then consider what He said and did. and if your going to defend Jesus then remember that's His Job, as it says in the good book.
side Note:
I always find it funny when people claim things like Jesus camp are so wrong because they fanatically promote a religion. However, what is public school?
it is an institution that promotes self centered people, teaches a science that really has less truth to it than the Bible (Bible has a lot of historical truth). and also claims to teach education, yet we rank way the heck down on the education level compared to other poorer countries. so what does it teach? to be a non religious, opened minded, open sexually, no morals, lack of intelligence, self focused, person. that's sad. they are their to teach education. not standards ( that's the parents job). basically what I'm getting at is, public school is really no better than Jesus camp because they both are pushing an ulterior motive.
also to the guy below my comment about no proof of Jesus, read the Bible. and tell me how many other people in the world think He existed. one guys forged writing does not prove crap. even the Bible has a dozen guys just in the new testament that believe he existed and even died to promote it.and another thousand died for Him that was recorded (read foxes book of martyrs).
I have read the bible multiple times. I went to catholic schools for over 10 years, and all I can say is religion is the greatest lie ever told. Open your minds to reality and you will see that you can live a happy moral fulfilling life without a man-made deity.
Your credentials are impressive, however since Catholic school starts around 6, and Bible study is a large part of it, it seems any 16 year old could claim as much credibility as you.
So many problems with your post, I'm not sure where to start...
Public school is far, far from a religious point of view. Everything taught in schools is backed up with peer reviewed, verifiable and repeatable evidence. There is no such thing in religion.
It's been shown many times over that the Bible, while getting a couple things right, has far more historical inaccuracies. That aside, the historical validity is still not proof of a God. Hitler's Mein Compf may have some historical accurateness. Does that mean we should accept and worship every other word in the book as gospel? No, it does not.
Lastly, there are quite a few people that question even the very existence of Jesus to begin with. When examining historical records, you will find only one single, solitary record that only makes a reference in passing to a person named Jesus. There are no other historical accounts outside of the bible. For someone who was supposedly doing so many great things, you'd think there would be more accounts.
As far as I'm concerned, the very fact that we have to even debate whether God exists, or that Jesus was the son of God, is enough to show they are simply human ideas, much like Apollo and his fellow Greek Gods.
Josh, I haven't seen the op you replied to, so please forgive any misunderstandings. There are a few points I would make.
First, the writers of the various books of the Bible may have written about historical events, but they are NOT history books (as WE understand that term) or biographies. While there are different purposes for different books, using different forms of literature, they are all coming from a perspective of faith, and are reflections of faith.
This is one reason why there can be such a gulf between their world view, and ours today. They lived in a completely different world.
Whether God exists, or whether Jesus was God incarnate, -- that is something only you can decide. "Proof" as in empirical evidence is not possible.
As to the historical existence of Jesus, that is another matter. There is not going to be a great deal of material even existing from the first century -- so learning about that period is going to be difficult. Galilee wasn't even the center of Palestine, let alone the Roman Empire.
And Jesus was hardly the only itinerant teacher who was ministring in that land at that time. There were actually very many. Most are lost to history, but that does not mean they did not exist. I suppose the question is, why is this one remembered?
As for physical evidence, that is even harder. There are two NEAR contemporaneous mentions, Josephus mentions him briefly (about 40 years after his ministry) and I believe Philo of Alexandria also mentions him. Certainly his followers were gaining attention.
The most solid piece of evidence which has been found is that we do know that Pontius Pilate did exist. A stone was found in Caesaria (the day-to-day Roman capital of the province. Pilate would only have traveled to Jerusalem during the pilgrim festivals (such as Passover) becasue the city's size would swell, and that was when the Romans feared an uprising.
The stone was found with enough letters still present that we know it is Pilate's name, and it had been used as part of a Temple to the Roman Emperor, and later re-used after that building was gone.
Granted, it is not much, but you have to remember that a devastating war was fought (67-73) between the Romans and Jews (the first of two, actually) so written records would be a problem.
The oldest writings in the New Testament would be the Epistles, the Gospels were not written until quite a bit later. The reason for this was that the original followers believed that Jesus would return during their lifetime, and it was only as that generation passed away, that someone figured some of this ought to be written down.
Again, all anyone can do is examine what is available, and then make a choice.
If there was evidence of the kind you want, then it wouldn't be faith, would it?
Yes, that's what I end up hearing quite often when debating religion. "It requires faith." Well, that's simply not good enough if you care what you believe is true. Using faith, you cannot distinguish between Christianity, Mormonism, Muslim, Scientology, etc. Faith is not an answer, it's an avoidance of an answer used whenever it's convenient. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and the lack thereof is more than enough to comfortably reject any religious claims to date.
It's also worth pointing out that there's no good reason for a God to require faith. Why would an "all loving" God choose to willfully punish billions of people by making his existence so easily questionable? Doesn't sound like any sort of respectable moral code that I want any part of...
There is not much that I can say in response to this. One cannot use empirical reasoning to find "evidence" for something that is supernatural.
I am not sure what you mean when you say that God willfully punishes billions of people.. I am not one who believes that people who do not share that faith are going to be punished.
In the end, creeds are not important. What is important is how we live our lives, how we treat others.
One does not have to be a believer to be a person who cares for others, and tries to make this world a better place.
And one can be a believer and commit some of the worst acts out of that faith. I worry more about the latter group than the former.
Ultimately, none of us KNOW with certainty the answers to your question.
Which is why "debating" religion is somewhat pointless.
The evidence of God, the God of the Bible, is found in the powerful works of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God, here on earth today. Some of these works we don't recognize as "miracles" because they seem normal. Some of these "normal" miracles is people who are radically changed by an encounter with God through the Holy Spirit, which most people won't recognize it is the Holy Spirit, but just something that stirs within them and urges them to know more about this Jesus who became our mistakes, took our punishment so we can go free, and rose again from the dead to send the Holy Spirit to live inside us and give us eternal life and peace (and a lot more awesome stuff).
Some have huge instant change, like stop drinking or stop doing drugs, stops hating and starts loving their family and friends. Others are more slowly changed... The true change though, only happens through an encounter with God through the Holy Spirit.
This living Spirit can also do miracles in the sense that we would normally think of them. For example, giving deaf people the ability to hear, blind to see, cure cancer.
Personally I have for example prayed for someone who had a headache and it was gone instantly, or a cough that went away, or shinsplints in the legs that were healed. I know these might not be "great" in your eyes, but that doesn't mean God can't do those things you think are great.
For God the most important thing is not the miracles in themselves, but his goal is to love his children. God is not a religion that is about doing all the right things. God is all about love. He IS love actually. He is also about grace, forgiveness, kindness, mercy, joy, peace, hope and much more! He is longing for all his children to come back to him, so he can love us, embrace us and strengthen us.
We don't have to, in fact we cannot, work and earn anything from God. The reason is that every good gift from him is free because of the sacrifice of his Son Jesus Christ.
Watch this documentary: "Finger of God" !! :) I loved it. It might be kinda freaky at first, but just hold on and keep an open mind and it'll blow you away!
Bless you, and may you find rest for your soul. May also God love and bless your family and friends.
hahahahahahahahahaha wow...i cant wait for the day that you are watching tv and they prove that god doent exist!!! on that day i will be laughing at you and every other christian on this earth
!!!
Jordan ( I think I posted a response to someone who responded to this post). One thing it is important to stress is that we (who dwell in the 21st Century) cannot just pick up a Bible, read it, and expect to understand what we are reading. For one thing, you are reading someone's translation of what was written, because the Bible was written in Hebrew and Greek, not English. That is important, but it is only the beginning. There are forms of literature used that we do not use. And while we are used to history and biography, and science, there are no books in the Bible which are written as histories, biographies, or as science books (Empirical reason was centuries away). It was a different world, and we need to make an effort to understand that world, if we are going to have a chance to understand what we are reading.
Fortunately there are many scholars who have spent their careers trying to understand what is written, and what that world was like.
But you cannot use the Bible as evidence for God, or even as to the nature of Jesus, because the Bible was written through the prism of FAITH. It presumes that the person who reads is a believer, and is not written to try to persuade someone who is not.
Faith is a choice, and there are many different ways people come to believe what they do.
But science is no help here, because science can only deal with natural events. And since God is "supernatural" (literally "BEYOND nature") science can neither prove or disprove the existence of God.
The problem occurs when people start thinking Genesis is a sciencebook of creation, when its authors never intended it to be. For one thing, there are TWO creation accounts, from completely different sources, and where two different methods are employed to create. Both CANNOT be LITERALLY true. The meaning is one that is deeper, and this often gets lost in fruitless debates, and attempts to force public schools to not teach evolution (and I am sorry, but the evidence for evolution is overwhelming).
Genesis examines the WHY of creation -- not the HOW. Science can tell the latter, but it really is not equipped to tell us the former.
And different methods of reason are appropriate, depending on what one is doing. Science does what it does very well. It is amazing the advances of astronomy (my favorite) and cosmology have made in just the last generation.
What THEOLOGY is, is something different. The best definition I have heard is that it is "faith seeking understanding" -- which means it has the persepective of faith. So it cannot be used to PERSUADE someone to a position of faith.
There need not be any conflict. Just because one is a believer does NOT mean we check our intellects at the door. Reason is a GIFT, we are expected to use it.
And ANY faith which seeks to brainwash or indoctrinate is not doing a service to its members. If you recall, the only title Jesus ever really had was "Rabbi" -- that word means "teacher". I can think of no more noble title than that.
So if you want to mock Islam you have to have read the Qu'aran and the Haddiths first then?
17:00 I love jesus so much i think he needs to be rescued from the bible and nutjobs like you.
17:00 more lies, the founders were mostly atheist or secularist.
11:20 this woman wants to send my (not ye existence) kids to die for her stupid cause? FORGET that.
this, is what will happen if states get rights, like ron paul suggest.
IF, and that's a big IF...."Jesus" did exist and was "reserected" as is CLAIMED, (there were lots of "other-Gods" who claim the same thing, even the Moses story was taken from King Sargon, like Noah was taken from The "GILGAMESH" was indeed "reserected," I'd sure like to see the "White Horse" he "rides in on" through OUTER SPACE! That "Van Allen Radiation Belt" (which WE have NEVER "been through") which causes the Federal Government, to tell "BOLD-FACED-LIES," that "we" have been to the moon! (Thank you Stanly Kubrick) Fact is, NO HUMAN has been THROUGH the Van Allen Radiation Belt, and lived to tell the story. To PURPOSELY TEACH "Biblical Bullsh*t" in a classroom setting, should-be RESERVED for Parochial-schools! NOT "public-schools!" ANY so-called "Religious-teching" should-be....up to THE INDEVIDUAL! "Children" will BELIEVE whatever you tell them! Then live their lives through a LIE! "Konw the truth, and IT will set you free." (Jesus) "The Truth" is NOT what's being taught here. What IS being-taught, is a bunch of FAIRY TALED and BOLD FACED LIES! STUDY WORLD RELIGIONS. NOT just So-called "Christianity." You will be amazede how "alike they are." Christianity" is NOT the "Christianity" that begun a couple thousand years ago. L.Ron Hubbard said, "If you want to be a Millionaire, start a religion." aka SCIENTOLOGY. (Yet ANOTHER "CONTROL SYSTEM")
You have a very nasty edge to you Mr. Goodman, and your spelling is atrocious.
Even folks who do not believe that Jesus is the Son of God recognize that He actually lived; He has been recognized as an historical figure for centuries. Even the Jewish faith acknowledges Him as a great prophet.
Yet YOU'RE still unsure if He even existed???
It sounds to me like you carry around a lot of unresolved emotional baggage, and you may benefit from psychotherapy.
Good luck to you.
@Summery Warm.
Disagree, no empirical evidence that your Jesus, existed, show us proof, the onus is on you. Even Titus Flavius Josephus writings on Jesus were known to be forged.
Well, Josephus would have been a generation later, as would Philo of ALexandria. The problem is that Galilee was not even the center of Palestine, let alone the Roman Empire. And there were MANY itinerant teachers who were active during this period. Perhaps the question should be, why were most forgotten, when this one was not.
It would be very difficult to find written documents from that period-- especially as just 40 years later there was an extremely destructive war between the Romans and the Jews (67-73), in which much was destroyed.
There was an even more comprehensive destruction in the 2nd Century CE, the Bar Kochba uprising, and the Romans were VERY thorough in their destruction of the city.
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense. One thing we DO know was that Pontius Pilate did exist, a stone with his name (some of the letters are missing, but enough are present to figure out that it was a stone used by Pilate as part of a temple he dedicated to the Roman Emperor. After that building was destroyed, it was used (as common practice) for something else, possibly even a paving stone.
Now Pilate doesn't provide evidence of Jesus, but it is circumstantial.
Ultimately, however, these questions are one of faith -- and if we had evidence, then there would be no faith.
That may sound like a cop-out, but I am not telling you what to believe or not to believe.
That is a decision only you can make. And as a believer, I am not one who thinks that one is condemned over a creed. IF Jesus existed, then much of his teaching emphasizes that what we DO is important, not what we believe.
And Paul once wrote that if one had faith to move mountains, but had not love, then one is but an empty gong.
There are those of us Christians who do not believe in chucking away our reason, and perhaps that is what is most distressing about this film, that there is more indoctrination (and LOTS of fear) being used, not genuine teaching, and teaching these kids how to think for themselves.
I am not a literalist, and know that the evidence for evolution is overwhelming. I also know that one of the first theorists to develop what is now known as the Big Bang Theory was an astrophysicist who was also a priest. But he stressed keeping each domain separate. His faith did not interfere with his science.
Modern Biblical scholarship also uses many scientific means, not just to better understand the Bible (whether one is a believer or not) but also the world in which those people lived.
I told another poster here that the only real title Jesus ever had was "Rabbi" -- which literally means, "Teacher". I can think of no nobler title.
And even if one is not a believer, there is a lot in those teachings which is worth following. Certainly we would have a happier world.
@jcmass:
Thank you for your post and your reply, there may have been a Jesus, the man. But a biblical Jesus, there is no real empirical proof for, only some books written by desert dwellers, and then only some of all that was written about the religion/Jesus was offered for inclusion in the 4 gospels the rest is and was suppressed.
If you are referring to a "Monsignor George Lemaitre" a Roman Catholic/Jesuit priest with a degree in astrophysics who in 1927 developed a theory about the big bang, you are correct but I do not see what any correlation on his scientific work and his religion have to do with anything, his evidence of proof lies on the premise of science/facts and absolutely no empirical evidence of proof that religion had anything to do with the big bang, only faith, with doesn't mean squat in "fact" based science. I could believe in many things and still do science.
You say there are some good things in the bibles to live by, I say they are many books that offer many good thing to live by, without all the abject horror offered in your so called good books.
I am responding only now, because I got an e-mail about this only now.
Finding empirical proof about Jesus is very difficult -- just as it is very difficult to find empirical proof about MOST people living in Palestine in the First Century, CE. The Gospels you mention were written long after Jesus' ministry. We DO know Pilate existed, because archaeologists found a stone from that era with his name carved on it. But finding more information is difficult. That part of the world is not as arid as Egypt, so documents simply do not survive for 2000 years. And Jesus, like Socrates, never actually wrote anything.
As for Lemaitre, I cannot remember why I brought him up, but it is likely to make the point that it is possible for believers to use different kinds of reason -- depending on what they are doing.
He was a scientist, and as he was working on his theory, he and the pope had correspondence where the pope made the mistake of trying to take his work and use it as "proof" of creation.
Lemaitre himself advised him not to do so, for the methodology of scientific reasoning, and theology are not the same,and should not be mixed.
The Bible itself is a very complicated set of books. There ARE many horrible acts depicted in the Bible (there is also erotic love poetry -- read the Song of Songs sometime). Many Christians make the mistake of seeing the Bible as an answer book, but in reality it often asks questions (like why do bad things happen to good people) for which there is no answer.
And the horrific things described there are meant to show what is called "the human condition" -- Why, for example, do you think the story of Cain and Abel is one of the first stories (shortly after the creation accounts) related in Genesis?
I am not trying to persuade anyone to become a believer, or change what they think of the Bible. That is ultimately a decision each one of us makes.
Again, I want to stress that in the end, what is important isn't creeds, but our actions. THEY define who we are.
I have been thinking, and I remember why I spoke about Georges Lemaitre. I was pointing out that not all Christians toss their brains out if they are devout.
In the US, there is a history among some fundamentalist sects who see the use of reason or intellect as somehow being negative.
But this is not a universal trait, and it is not only the ignorant and ill-educated who are believers.
You rather undermine your credibility about Jesus when you then go on to reveal that you are a moon-landing denier. Even Van Allen knew that as long as the exposure was brief (and the trajectory for the TLI was planned with just that in mind), that it was survivable.
What concerned the mission planners was solar activity with men on the lunar surface. ( The Command Module could suffice enough in a pinch, but as the LEM had much of its surface only as thick as three sheets of aluminum foil -- easy enough to kick a hole through if an astronaut was careless), there was concern that a solar CME could cause a serious problem on the Moon.
And there WAS one event (which fortunately happened between two of the later missions) which WOULD have killed any astronauts had they been on the moon. All were quite fortunate.
There is one question I have always wanted to ask those who deny these landings existed, and that is, why have the six missions (the last two or three were cancelled) go to the moon (there were actually 9 missions, but Apollo 8 and 10 never landed there, and we all remember why 13 did not.)
All that was needed, if this was a "hoax" was one, and the more missions you have, the more people who would be in on the "conspiracy" -- and yet no one who would have known has ever claimed a hoax. (That in itself would possibly, given human nature, be a greater accomplishment than actually going there.)
Why fake 6 landings, with the last three being very complex, extended missions, with a lunar rover and everything.
I know we are off topic here, but if one is going to be credible when talking about issues like the historical Jesus, then one has to be grounded in reality.
I saw this documentary a few years ago when the DVD first came out. The child abuse, esp. emotional abuse, shown here is simply appalling. I marveled at the filmmakers, who apparently just stood by and said nothing while getting all of this down. That it won accolades from the film industry confuses me even further (though I could somewhat understand the latter).
This is brainwashing 101. "I'll do what you want me to do. I'll say what you want me to say." Did no one see anything wrong with this???
Compare this to the videos on YouTube showing little Muslim terrorists being likewise brainwashed and even trained to kill. All these poor children should be enjoying their innocent years, playing in the fresh air, studying nature, having fun before adulthood and its problems and responsibilities descends all too soon upon them.
That kid who admitted to having seen a Harry Potter movie-does one get the feeling that the others might lynch him if they felt they could get away with it?
A lot of these poor things are going to need some serious psych counseling as they get older. Although the chubby woman (isn't gluttony a sin?) and her cohorts must shoulder most of the blame, what I want to know is how could any parents subject their offspring to this insanity??? They are the ones who are eventually responsible for this horrid abuse of young minds.
P.S. Does anyone know if this type of camp or whatever they want to call it is still going on? I shudder to think nothing has been done about this.
This is a documentary about religious and political intolerance, and you're asking why the documentarians tolerated the subjects they filmed???
In case you're still under the impression that you're the only one who saw "...anything wrong with this...," rest assured that the "wrong-with-this" factor was the entire point of the exposé.
Yeeeesh.
And at what point do we call DCFS?
Well said!! As a survivor of the child abuse that goes on in these types of churches, I can describe the long term effects of being subjected to these kind of teachings as devasting. This documentary reminded me of what I was forced to endure from age 4-10. As an adult, I have struggled in many areas of my life and undergone long term intensive psychotherapy in order to erase the damage of these teachings. I am currently pursuing a degree in social work and feel that CPS needs to start intervening in situations like this.
Well said!! As a survivor of the child abuse that goes on in these types of churches, I can describe the long term effects of being subjected to these kind of teachings as devasting. This documentary reminded me of what I was forced to endure from age 4-10. As an adult, I have struggled in many areas of my life and undergone long term intensive psychotherapy in order to erase the damage of these teachings. I am currently pursuing a degree in social work and feel that CPS needs to start intervening in situations like this.
Cc81-I hope that your future is bright! It will be people like you who will help those subjected to religious abuse. Thank you!
This was a shock.
How can anyone read a book that was written over a Millenia prior to scientific method and try to place science in it. There was no such as thing as science at that time, how irrational. This level of fanaticism, hatered, and fear tactics are reminiscent of 1930's Germany or even the Dark Ages for that matter. Tell me this isn't what it seems to be, or that we can bring reason to this plight. It is bad enough that the top 1% of our country control almost all media sources, now they are infiltrating the relgious sector. I will be fleeing the country before I am persicuted under a theocracy that hates me for researching history and drawing conclusions for myself. NEVER underestimate the power of ignorant people in great quantities.
To: Dylan...
"the bible wasn't peer reviewed" (Classic)
This is despicable child abuse, teaching kids that backward superstitions and bronze age myths are 'true' is disgraceful.
These people are some of the most hypocritical human beings I have ever laid my eyes on. They are ignorant and resentful people. However, they do truly believe that they have good intentions. Religion is meant to bring people together and I know for a fact that Jesus would be horrified by people using his name to discriminate against others.
Good god, or not so good god, especially in this case. It honestly freaks me out that this is based close to where I live (St. Robert MO. I actually go the that bowling alley 'buckhorn lanes'). As horrible as it sounds, I probably would have told that little girl there was no god if she proposed god wanted her to talk to me. These kids are being brain-washed. And that lady burning on Harry Potter? Making a huge deal out of it? It's a ******* fiction novel, grow up lady. Children should not be introduced to any sort of an ideology until they're capable of making logical choices. Any-who: Absurdities in a religion, or maybe even absurdities at all, in which you hold a presupposition, can only be seen, and fixed by introspection. Which, don't get me wrong, can be 'ignited' through a non-biased study of various religions, or non-religions(atheism, agnosticism, etc. etc.) Oh, and one last thing, evolution has been proven. I mean, it's still a 'theory' but so is gravity, the 'theory of gravity'. Just because I drop my cell phone, doesn't mean angels were pulling it down.
Good post. At least Harry Potter teaches about the benefits of true friendship and love and devotion to family. Apparently this is a message these "good" people fail to understand and teach their little ones.
there is no god live with it... or be one of the millions who think your getting help lol
George Bush is the worst President HISTORY!
Children are SO gullible! They will beleive anything you tell then!
"This means war?" Where in the Bible are those written? Speaking of "following God?" Bush fakes prayer? This FAT BITCH is warping these children's minds!
What a STUPID bitch! Brainwashing children! No wonder this world is in such trouble!
"In Jesus name?" You might as well say "in the name of George Harrison. Talk about BRAINWASHING! I CAN TELL FAJE "SPEAKING IN TOUGES !
her whole life is EATING! And SHE has the nerve of faking speaking in touges!
SHAME on her!
"But the Lord told me..." Oh really....what ?id he sound like?
Just to prove how STUPID this overtly obese bitch it telling CHILDREN they can speak in tongues! I THOUGHT I received the Holy Ghost, but I was 39! This overtty-fAT-BITCH is BRAINWASHING these babies.
She Talks About George Bush?...."GOD SPEAKS THROUGH ME," Bush said. THAT'S AS DUMB AS WHAT SHE IS BRAINWASHING these kids with
"Prayer" does about as much good as getting DRUNK!!
This cake eating bitch is talking about "lazy fat people?" What a joke! And a BAD joke at that. My mind was cramped and distorted by the Lutheran Church! The name was "OUR SAVIOR LUTHERAN CHURCH." I RECEIVED A VACCINATION THERE. THAT sterIlized me! IT TOOK ME a hundred women, but only ONE got pregnant 3 TIMES! A year after we divorced, I got "tested," and Guess what? I cannot "make babies! Don't let your kids be VACCINATED! I adore children, however, the church sterilized me, and I have none; and never will. THEY are still killing the first born sons. Even today!
If you want to find the most pedaphiles per capita is? The Roman Catholic Church!
that lady is too radical.. all of the problems, discriminations and etc are the cause of these people's acts and beaviors like that. she exagerates most of the things, she labels the whole muslim community as the enemies of christians...why? She has a prejudice to the whole muslims just because of some radical so called "muslims" that made terror acts. in fact, those people who did that are not real muslims, because Islam does not teach people to kill, it's a peaceloving religion as many others, as well as Christianity. For example, I myself do not hate American Christian for invasion of Iraq, Vietnam and so on. First of all because I do not have a right to do so, and secondly because it's not Christians fault or whatsoever, it is just a political game in which the only responsibles are politicians and other special interest groups and not any other ordinary believers. That is the same situation with the 9/11. She is so fulfilled with stereotypes, which in turn proves her narrow views and horrizons. In my country all of the races, ethnicities and religions live in peace,tolerance, and respect despite the fact that there are more than 130 ethicities living in Kazakhstan. P.S: please, be objective, I know that most of the things people know about KZ are from the film Borat which is total bull ****)) come and visit, if you want to know for sure.
(I am not refuting, making fun of, mocking, or disproving the CHRISTIAN FAITH. THIS IS just A DOCUMENT WHICH I FOUND INTERESTING AND FRIGHTENING.) After you've watched this you'll think this is some pretty twisted stuff. I believe there are great Christians who really make a difference, who do great things and help other people just to be nice and not for personal gain. Then there are those who are only "outside" Christians, like U.S. politicians. (0_0) The first 20 minutes of this documentary "wowed" me. She's asking for Christian children to be as radical as Muslim extremists who become shahids (martyrs) for the cause. I question a lot of the stuff these parents are teaching their kids when they home school them. These children are young, they'll believe anything an adult says, and when that one way thinking is nurtured, the child grows into an adult who has never known the outside world and chosen for themselves on what to believe. Like I said, my rant isn't to talk bad about Christianity, so don't think I'm "persecuting" you for your beliefs, I'm just glad that your belief and faith in God and Jesus are a positive element in your life and promotes positivity.
The brainwashing taking place in this documentary toward the young and impressionable children both in a religious and political sense is morally appalling. The sad thing about all of this is that the adults who are using shame and scare tactics to indoctrinate these innocent children into their specific way of thinking were once indoctrinated into it as children and it is a cycle that is seen in many religious circles. My problem with what these kids are being told is that it will entrap them in a vicious circle of shame and self defeat for just being human and feeling certain ways. It's also unhealthy for the social development of these children as they will see everyone who isn't of their specific religious belief to be evil and that may have more disastrous effects towards society if a chemical imbalance presents itself during or after puberty in some of these kids. I also feel that the mixing of religious message with strong and overt political sentiments and overtones that these children have been subjected to is not that different from what must have taken place at youth camps in Nazi Germany.
What these religious fanatics neglect to realize is that they are doing far more harm than good with their rhetoric and they are stunting the intellectual growth and doing great emotional harm to their young by subjecting them to this blatantly biased drivel.
Personally I feel that the further we keep religion and politics separate the better. A country cannot run efficiently when something as encompassing and polarizing as religion is brought to the forefront as it was when bush was in office. And these right wing, religious fanatics should not be allowed to bring their overbearing brand of faith to the political arena.
You are absolutely right on in all of your comment. Religious indoctrination is child abuse -- period. Our culture doesn't allow someone to hit a child, sexually abuse a child, but psychological abuse in the name of a religion is moral? Those that do not see this too have been brainwashed themselves to protect their pathological narcissist. They have become an inverted narcissists by condoning the behavior -- putting a text above impressionable children (including themselves starting out as psychologically abused children -- believe this doctrine -- or else! Now they are adults posting rebuttals to this wise way of thinking, just as you have posted here Josh). Indoctrinating children into any religion when they can't think for themselves cognitively is a narcissistic cycle from generation upon generation, not just the Christians -- Jews, and Islam abuse their own offspring in the name of God. I am a proud Secular-Humanist Jew for this reason. The Bible/Torah repulses me. Organized religion and abuses make me furious. This sort of argument goes above and beyond a right to practice whatever religion. What about a child's right to not be abused in the name of it? Our laws need to change to protect the innocent. Religious abuse is the worst kind of Stockholm Syndrome. Children learn to bond with their own abusers. Jesus freaks and Torah idolators are all hypocrites. Someone please change the laws to protect the children.
So I hate this for two reasons. 1.) I hate that this documentary puts all of the blame of the possible demise of this nation on Christianity. There are many secular implementations that are contributing to the demise of this nation 2.) Not ever church teaches there people the way they do. There are many secular institutions that teach their students or participants a radical idea that eliminates some aspect of American culture.
It's amazing how it's okay for gays and evolutionist to fight for and coerce government to implement what they want, but when Christians fight for what they want it's called brainwashing and trying to take over America. Gays want schools to start teaching an acceptance to homosexuality and evolutionist want evolution to start being taught. In what way is that right? Let's remove one person's opinion to install another person's opinion? Really? There is no scientific evidence that proves that homosexuality is a biological inscription in someone genetics and evolution is still just a theory. There is no need to try and paint Christianity as some kind of monster that is going to destroy our nation.
@Timothy Smith:
Do you even have a clue as to what you are talking about? I sure don't.
Maybe you should revamp your post with better definitions as to what you are getting at, but with a caveat, the onus is on you to show proof or empirical evidence of your allegations because if you do not your post basically means squat!
Religious addiction is what we`re talking about,and this is absolutely religious addiction.This is fact and not just a theory.The demise of this country will have many of its roots firmly grounded in superstition.
Tim, you need help with your religious addiction.I suggest a good treatment center.Your thoughts are not rational on this subject.Good luck.
"...evolution is still just a theory."
Like the theory of gravity is too? A theory in scientific terms isn't just guesswork.. It's based on observations and evidence.
Regarding homosexuality, it's not unique to humans.. Lots of animal species show homosexual behavior. Do they do that just to piss God off? I think not..
It's not Christianity that is destroying nations, it's ignorance, prejudice and fanaticism. Christianity is just a vessel to project those terrible human flaws.
well gotta correct you here. First off, gravity isn't a theory, it's a law. Hell scientists have more evidence for evolution than gravity if you can believe it. What most Christians do is they fail to realize the difference between "Theory" in English and "Theory" in the scientific world. What they know as Theory scientists call "Hypothesis" and a Theory is just a Hypothesis that's been proven true over and over again with numerous experiments. Sorry had to go science geek here haha. Either way I do completely agree with what you said at the end. It's disgusting really.
"There is no scientific evidence that proves that homosexuality is a biological inscription in someone genetics and evolution is still just a theory."
You're kidding right? "still just a theory". So what you're suggesting is that because evolution is just a theory it should be disregarded? Then what of Christian views on homosexuality and evolution? Do you have any concrete evidence that disproves them? The bible is not concrete evidence. The "word of god" is not evidence. It is all speculation.
A theory is an attempt to explain the inexplicable. The difference between christian theories and scientific theories is, there is actually tangible evidence with science. For both evolution and the biological underpinnings of homosexuality, there is an ever increasing amount of evidence. While it may not be a wholistic explanation, there is far more *concrete* evidence in support of these theories than the words of the bible that are taken for granted as truths.
***********The bible wasn't peer reviewed.************
Think critically for a second, by embracing the bible without question you are blindly trusting someone who you have never seen or met and has no REAL credit to their name that would give one reason to trust them. I don't have anything against religion, perhaps there is a god. I can't confirm or deny that. But I refuse to be led blindly by a group who they themselves accept a book written by men as the word of a supernatural being. The fact that this very group has such sway on America is a scary thing. I actually pray that god shows up to tell fundamentalist Christians that they are wrong and the literal interpretation of a metaphorical text that is being spread is slowly but surely chipping away at the foundations of humanity.
That's just my two cents.
She sums it all up perfectly: "The Devil goes after the young."
Where is the rest of the documentary? I felt that I didn't see the whole thing? From personal experience (my opinion) :I grew up Pentecostal. Spoke in tongues, slain in the spirit, took part in alot of what you saw here and more. I remember being young and seeing this for the first time and being scared at what I saw. Then an adult told me that it was the Holy Spirit and that I should not be afraid. I then began with my relationship with God in the church. Over many years of my life I dedicated every thought, min of the day to reading the bible or praying because I was told that I should and that to be a good Christian that was what I was suppose to do. Also not to question the bible(the word of God) And not to question the preacher or pastor in there teachings because every word from their mouth was from God as well. As I started Highschool I felt lonely and depressed and isolated from everything around me. I began to ask my church friends if this was normal and they said "Your not of this world" so therefore you wont be treated the same. It was normal for me to feel this way. I spent many years in highschool isolated because I could not have non-believer friends and I didn't know any christians. I wasn't encouraged to hang around non-believers because from what I was told they would corrupt me and take me away from God. So fear of death and Hell I clung to every word they said and started to want to die. I felt like I wanted to leave the world and its earthly desires because I wanted to fully worship God and was tired of trying to please God here on earth it was draining me. I asked God to take my life many times. My parents began to be worried about me and brought me to a therapist who then put me on medication and told me that I should read this book called "Spiritual Abuse". As I began reading it I saw how similar these people were feeling to what I was feeling. I cried and felt a sense of relief that I wasn't the only one feeling this way. I stopped going to church as it was the cause of my mind being filled with these thoughts. I needed to clear my head. I stopped reading the bible. God still felt very real to me but Church felt like a scary place and not at all a safe place. I never felt angry at God. I felt as though people were twisting the words of the bible to benefit themselves or the church and I wanted nothing to do with it anymore. I attended Bible college and that was an amazing experience for me. I asked several questions and saw the bible in a whole new way. It was never intended to condem or make people feel this way it was a book about history. Learning about Jesus and how things were back then. Not how we should try and be like him. Although it taught us to love. What I experienced was not love but constant judgement and condemnation. I felt more love from my non-believer friends. I am 33 Years old and I have opened my mind to learn more about religion, God, and the bible. I have been told all my life that to do this was wrong. To learn about science or whatever was believing lies of enemy and that Satan is trying to turn me away from God. As I watched this it felt very close to home for me. It was like watching my experience from afar. When you are involved in it,it doesn't feel the way you all see it. You actually feel a presence, you feel a wave of emotion come over you, you feel love, you are told this is the holy spirit or Jesus trying to talk to you and to open your mind to hear him speak to you. As a young kid it is dangerous and I never ever saw it like that because at the time it all seemed normal. All I see is kids trying to be kids but are so afriad of sinning or upsetting God that their robbed of the joy of their childhoods. Everything is revolved around God or religion. They are told what to say, what not to say, what to wear, what to watch and so on and so on. Where is the freedom in that to be a kid. Who cares if Britney spears talks about boys and girls its real life. Now that being said. Parents can still sensor what age appropriate things their kids can watch but to say they can only watch church things and nothing else is to keep them sheltered and away from the real world. Enjoyed the documentary thanks for posting.
@Momoftwo2012:
That is called brain washing, and you still are brainwashed to a certain degree, you will never be really free until you let go of all that erroneous religious garbage that was instilled in your brain at an early age.
Religion is and always was a tool for people that are fearful of new things that get them out of their comfort zone.
And once religion found out that they can use what science has to offer to spread their erroneous beliefs to the masses, they basically stopped burning people at the stake.
"I like? your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Mahatma Gandhi
im Catholic, was raised Catholic, went to Catholic grade middle and high school, have read the bible many times, was taught about God, but also taught evolution, and taught to think for myself. nowhere in the bible does it say any of the things these extremist wackos teach, the bible is all inclusive to everyone, Muslim, Christian, Jew, Catholic, Anglican, Lutheran, all encompassing. Jesus never said that God loves some more than others, God loves all the people of the world, to cite scripture like these lunatics do John 3:16 (probably the most famous verse ever) God so loved the WORLD that he gave his only begotten son. These people believe that Catholics and everyone else are going to hell, and they contradict every value that there is in the bible, down to the golden rule, love your neighbor as yourself, it doesnt say love your christian as yourself. Having said the religious part, i am a Physics Undergraduate student, and I can assure you that although id like to believe "intelligent design" the big bang theory is one of the most sound scientific theories to come out in a long time. science has proven evolution, and it makes sense, it doesnt make sense, or fit in with history that, poof! there was adam and eve, if adam and eve were the first (and only) then the human race would no longer exist because of disease and famine. the bible was not meant to be taken literally, but spiritually and as stories and lessons, i mean revelation is written entirely in code? Duh! come on, wake up, pull your head out of the highly chlorinated gene pool you live in and start to think rationally and use the brain that GOD HIMSELF gave you. and quit brainwashing the kids, thats absolutely sick, on par with people who prey on kids, because they are no better, they prey on them because kids automatically believe what they say because they dont know better. Kids need to be taught every side of the story, and be allowed to make their own choices as to what they believe, its ok to teach them your beliefs but not to ram it down their throats.
@Drew:
You say you are religious and a physics undergraduate student? and you believe that the BB theory is sound and science has proven evolution? and then you also believe in the religion fairy tales?
You say the bible is not to be taken literally? That means you do not believe in Genesis? So what good is the bible? You offer complete contradiction only, what kind of physics undergraduate student are you anyway, if any?
Or are you doing the "pascals wager" thing? It seems that you are very scared to let go of your religion fairy tales!
And by the way, your god does not love anyone, read the OT. The NT is only an apologetic version, your big JC deity is a make believe deity from a long line of deities.
I went to those camps and I never felt I fit in or accepted it. As a child I was torn between a mother who was a fanatical assemblies of god pentacostal and a stepfather who sexually abused me. I went to church camp and felt guilt for not believing in god the way everyone else did because god never answered any of my prayers. One summer I almost killed myself at age 13. I have a great distaste now for religion and god as an adult, if you notice, I do not capitalize god for a reason... I am atheist. Multiple summers of church camp like this jesus camp were emotionally scaring, and like someone else said, watching this I felt cold and angry. So many lies.. This brings up a good point about the motives of the church however, a lager aspect, trying to form the US into something of christian storybooks... people like Rick Sanctorum in the presidential campaign scare the hell out of me, and prove that the message and brain washing of the church is in grip.
this is really extreme.. poor children. its like raising them to not be free thinkers. it is really disturbing what that lady is doing. this isnt what america is about. it was never founded on religion. religion is a cult.
holy ****! and thats about it.the founders weren't very clear about guns and militia's(right to bear arms) as well as freedom of religion.should be written freedom FROM religion. do what you want but get out of my way to soldier field,wrigley field,united center.you can go to your lame way of life,i got beer to cry in as the CUBS don't go to another world series.god exists?99.9% of CUBS fans doubt it.
I do not agree that religion should be outlawed. Sorry, but if we want to be a free nation, then we have to allow religion to exist. ONLY by proving that no gods exist can we ever hope to be free of religion, and I am totally for that part. Let's prove it. Then we can tell them to shut up.
I agree with you that outlawing religion isn't the way to go. Outlawing religion has a way of making the religious impulse even stronger (eg Communist Russia). But proving a god's non-existence is impossible, as science can't really prove a negative. We can prove that a god is unnecessary for the world to have come about the way it has, but those who wish to believe and who wish to manipulate others through belief will always find a way to shoehorn god into the scheme of things.
The only thing we can do on a societal level is to stop pretending that religion, even in it's mildest form, is ever totally innocuous. We can no longer eschew our responsibility to confront the greatest societal evil that exists by saying that we must 'respect' those who choose to reject reason in favor of dogma.
I grew up as a Southern Baptist, which is not this extreme, but still fundamentalist. When visiting the churches of friends of mine (Pentecostal, Church of Acts etc) I sometimes witnessed entire congregations incl. children speaking in tongues and writhing around. I also remember singing and dancing to many of the songs in the film as a child, which is freaky.
Even for me, the events in this film are truly scary. I agree with those who call this brainwashing. Bombarding children with imagery and dogma in order to recruit them to a life-long philosophy: as the lady said herself, it's no different than what extremist Muslims do to train someone to be a suicide bomber. They are creating an 'army' who will be called upon to do whatever their leaders ask of them for the rest of their lives, be it voting for Republicans or bombing abortion clinics.
That said, there may be hope for some of these kids. At some point in their lives, many of them will question what they were taught, and may even look back on their indoctrination with disgust and resentment. This kind of treatment leaves no room for middle ground. They either stay in this frame of mind forever or they move to the opposite end of the political/spiritual spectrum. I'm now a proud atheist and I know many others who 'grew out of' this rubbish as young adults.
Organized religions of all types should be forbidden and subject to
legal banning .... organizers, preachers and etc. should be subject
punishment like the bank robbers who go to prison when caught.
Religious freedom is only free choice when the organized churches
have been shut out of civilazation.
"Organized religions of all types should be forbidden and subject to
legal banning"
We all get it, or most of us should, that people like these are radical idiots with nothing but an agenda. These are the minority of Christians just like suicide bombers are the minority of Muslims. I guess you can completely forget about the Revolutionary War where people bled and were torn apart by bullets to give us freedom since you completely hate the First Amendment.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."
Nobody is forcing you to send your kids to this stupid camp. Just because you don't like something doesn't give you the right to act like a Nazi and forbid other people from practicing their beliefs. This "Jesus Camp" isn't abridging anyone's right to life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness.
Sick Bitch! This woman should be arrested for child abuse.This bitch should be in a mental institute.She prays on young innocent children with dumb parents.... Poor Kids! Where is the FBI on this matter.I', i'm in a shock that people allow this to go on! Why aren't American's stopping this crimes on children?,this could be your kids!!!
Is this whole world gone crazy?
Can't be my kids if I don't send them there. Focus should be on re-educating the brainwashed fanatics, not laws. Our laws allow for free practice of any religion, even if we think it's crazy. It's one of the things that keeps our country free. I'm sad that these kids have no choice in the matter, but the only way to change that is to educate not ban.
Children should be allowed to be children, They shouldn't be approached with this garbage until they are old enough to think for themselves...
the saddest thing is that these people probably think that this documentary is portraying them in a positive way.
The fact that these people are allowed to have children, now THAT is a sin. These must be the dumbest people on earth....
I was raised Roman Catholic and was a devout believer until I took a real hard look at the Bible and began reading books and listening to audio recordings by the late, great Alan Watts, whom I still look towards today for wisdom and guidance. Now I'm much more happy and at peace with the world than I was when bound to the Dogma of Abraham.
Wait until these kids are a little older then give em' a good lecture by Mr. Watts, see if it doesn't change their minds somewhat.
absolutely agree with you, Alan Watts change my whole vision of the world and of life... he's amazing!
poor children... I feel so sorry for them, because they don't really have a choice, they look up to their parents and imitate them, believe in them. Hopefully some of them will grow up and open their eyes....
and poor Harry Potter, sent to hell by that fat horrible woman!
Everything about this is so unsettling. Having lived through this, it makes me feel cold inside, and makes me realize how horrible this cult really is... Brainwashing the children, making them be what they want him to be.
I hate cults. ALL cults.
Very disturbing video. This is brainwashing and these people will stop at nothing to indoctrinate children. People keep your children close and safe from this evil. This is not about teaching about Christ. This is about power and control.
Our future Republican leaders.
This is a very small segment of our society who are unfortunately attached to that party the same way unfortunately communism is attached to the left. There are extremists everywhere, and that comment does nothing to further the conversation about the brainwashing that is taking place in this documentary.
"We pray over this equipment...we know what the devil likes to do in these kind of situations..." LOL that damn devil, turning off the electricity XD
it is undeniable, that though it maybe difficult to justify plainly, there is a sense that something is wrong and disturbing about this jesus camp....the real truth is that what they are teaching these kids is not the truth, and simply because that woman is passing her false knowledge to these children whether intentionally or unintentionally. and i refer to the part where she was making her little presentation about sin an death. the gospel teaches us that we who believe in Christ, have been freed frm the law of sin an death. we live through Christ, in faith, by grace from the Father. there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ an those who believe he died an was risen. this woman is playin on these childrens minds, making them feel guilty, condemning them, enforcing moses law on them. she might as well be the devil himself for her deceiving attitude. and her sole justification is the muslims.... this very same attitude of making a gospel of peace and love, into radicalism is what got christianity into its history of murder an atrocities in the first place. why is she studyin the muslims? why doesnt she mind her own business and focus on her salvation, and leave those kids an let them find their own path an who they are in Christ? and why dont the parents of those kids cover their lives in pray (if they are so scared they sin an go to hell) rather than send them to a literal mad house!
It's amazing that we've developed the technology to instantly stream this documentary to a magic box sitting in my room... and yet we still haven't cast aside this bizarre urge to worship all-powerful entities that somehow know us and care about us.
I didn't really watch all of this but from the few minutes I did see I want to say a few things. 1. Whoever made/cut this movie had a very clear agenda, even listen to the 'horror' music being played when the kids are praying...I mean you can make a child on a swing seem ominous if you play the right music in the back ground. 2. I don't really agree with what this woman is even saying off the get-go, says in the Bible we wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities...I mean she says enemies and then mentions some country. The problem with this is that there is some truth mixed in with lies so it feels easy to throw a blanket over everything, that's like me saying Hitler was an atheist and therefore all atheists are such and such a way, which we know is faulty reasoning, watching one video and saying all Christians are such and such a way is just as faulty in reasoning.
especially since Hitler was not an atheist but a christian.
but if you watched the whole documentary you would see that its just saying this is a bad way to treat children.
It's really obvious you didn't watch this as you say, because at the beginning, the documentary opens with Christians talking about the kind that go to this camp being so extreme and "not Christian-like" at all. Perhaps you should watch and listen to the entire thing.
Harry Potter is not a warlock....
This Was a Very Disturbing Movie....
Please keep in mind that this is definitely an extreme way of living, even from someone who is devoutly Christian. There is a lot here that I disagree with, but I don't think it's wrong to raise kids Christian if you believe in Christianity. If and when I have kids, I will tell them about Christ and I will do my best to raise them to love the Lord. I desire for my kids to know truth, and Christ is truth as far as I've found it.
@Taylor Jenee Witcher-Page:
Raise them to love your deity? desire for them to know truth? should be a law against you brainwashing your children at a young age, it is child abuse!
Make sure you read all the bibles, that means the holy horror book of terrors the OT! Cherry picking is illegal!!
I have a feeling that you would teach your kids about science. I don't see a difference. I'm not brainwashing them, I'm presenting them with my opinion. I wouldn't every force them to believe anything.
You must know that science and religion are two different things, you do not have to force your kids to believe you about your religion, they would believe you by default alone!
You're right, you're teaching them your opinion... we aren't though, we're teaching our children facts.
Science isn't opinion, it's tested facts. Not teaching a child the basics of science (or worse, telling them that it's wrong) disconnects them from reality.
There is a MAJOR difference in the sciences and religion. Religion is just mythology that people believe is the truth. Science is based on facts and experimentation. Teaching my kid about science is informing them about how the world works. Teaching them about religion is teaching them to live their life based on outdated mythology.
This is exactly my problem with religious people. It is not wrong to raise kids christian? How about letting your kid decide...
It's a lion not a tiger.
these guys are perverted bigots, training and brainwashing children to believe in and do things no sound person would allow to be done. what is truly unsettling is that fanatics like Becky Fischer are completely and fervently passionate and convinced in their twisted logic of tit for tat to the point of murder, genocide and child abuse; it is not out of desire for material gains (on the face of it, anyway) that they do what they do. Instead, they truly madly deeply believe in the foul words that exude from their mouths. A sad, disturbing state of affairs.
Disgusting. I can't believe they're actually trying to justify religious brainwash by saying people who have different religious believes (and according to them the wrong ones) than they do use it as well. Those kids don't get to decide for themselves, and you only need common sense to realise that it's wrong. Making someone believe the same way you do by making them feel guilty or scaring them with lies about what will happen if you don't is just plain sick. Let the kids grow up and figure out what they believe or don't believe in instead of forcing them to agree with you.
Come up and get anointed with this holy bottle of Nestle water I grabbed from the fridge real quick.
This stuff makes the Hitler youth look sane.
Your species is defective. These specimen's have severe mental problems passing it onto kids. Harry Potter should be put to death lol.
"Some of these liberals gotta see this and start shaking in their boots. The intensity of these kids..."
Yes, I am shaking. But I'm not afraid for myself (though perhaps I should be, as we've seen what extremism can become).
This is one of the most terrifying things I have ever seen. It made me cry, and not from being overcome by Jesus, either.
Im ouraged! This is child abuse. Brainwashing? CHANGING THE WORDS of the pledge of allegiance? Teaching bible as science? sobbing? DISGUISTING!
Surely a more stark and undeniable action would be these mega-rich, fully-integrated insurance companies foregoing cash profit to actually help those suffering the effects of the fat-cats getting it so wrong.
Who could fail to see the sincerity of a major corporation using their billions to end greed and hunger?
Why do these "christian" organisations show so little trust in Christ that they refuse to withold bonus payments to their "christian" shareholders in order to make these very simple things happen.
Patients removed to the street because their "care package" cash has run out? Please, people. How did the Hipocratic Oath get so buried along with Christian faith, all in the name of profit and greed for the few?
I find this terrifying. I'm glad my kids are old enough and wise enough to avoid this stuff.
Come on, an anti-abortion messages in the middle of grace for lunch?
The dangerous thing about bringing political issues to those too young to vote is that People like Bush get swept in on a tide of messianic furore.
All life is important and created by God, so why do you spend so much time and effort saving the unborn whilst at the same time sending thousands of troops to die to secure a pipeline or oilfield for the uber-rich to benefit from?
This, to me, is child abuse, pure and simple. To infuse children with unwarranted guilt and shame, to fill them with anger and hate, to make them cry and sob and then DELIGHT in their misery? It's sadism. It's abusive.
Hell yeah Jaina, it is!
At 8:25 , when she starts speaking in tongues (it is demonic) , listen carefully... she says : "so called whore"...
all this action is 100% demonic. The Bible orders to love and have compassion and forgive...
All this false teaching does - it teaches to hate, accuse, destroy...
At 8:25 she asks to pray children in tongues (this tongues thing is DEMONIC),
listen carefully at 8:25, at beginning in speaking in tongues - "so called whore" - she says!
speaking in tongues is not demonic..i think you need to read your bible a little more carefully.
@Zara Joseph:
Just because your books/bibles written by man says speaking in tongues is not demonic does not mean that it isn't, sounds eerily demonic to me.
All your bibles do is offer circular man made fallacies. Means squat!
mmm speaking in tongues isnt demonic, its actually very rooted in scripture, for example: Acts 2:1-4 says "When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place. And suddenly there came from heaven a sound like a mighty rushing wind, and it filled the entire house where they were sitting. And divided tongues as of fire appeared to them and rested on each one of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance" Another verse would be 1 corinthians 14:37-40 "If anyone thinks that he is a prophet, or spiritual, he should acknowledge that the things I am writing to you are a command of the Lord. If anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized. So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. But all things should be done decently and in order" and there are plenty more. Whether you believe in the bible is up to you, but if you do, then its important to know that the bible does very much support speaking in tongues.
Tongues was needed on the day of Pentecost because there were thousands of people from 15 different nationalities all gathered together, but all understood what was being said. Read I Corinthians 14:2-11, especially 9 and 11. I will pray you comprehend the Truth as it is in Gods Word. If there is no one to interpret the message for others to understand and to edify the church, then it is not from God. Speaking in tongues in massive groups is demonic, it's straight from Satan and I pray that you will receive the light.
We are not a Christian nation. We weren't supposed to be a Christian nation..
"Christianity is the most perverse system shone to man."- Thomas Jefferson
"Lighthouses are more useful than churches." - Ben Franklin
Treaty w/ Trinidad & Tobago 1797 drafted by Washington & signed by Adams, "As the government of the United States of America, in any sense, is not founded on the Christian religion..."
whole lota brain washin happenin there.....
Jesus Camp, held where?! Devil's Lake, North Dakota. The irony, hahaha.
This is goddamn horrifying.
anyone else reflect on the fact that the woman in charge of the camp clearly is guilty of gluttony and vanity?
i mean, 2 out of 7 of the deadly sins, thats not very christian in my book (the bible).
also, there's a scene where she's on her sofa in front of the TV with a box of tissues so its probably also safe to add lust to that list. 3 out of 7.
As a Christian I don't believe this film clearly stated what denomination this group was a part of, and that made Christians in other denominations very angry. I have totally different beliefs.
These people are forcing religion on their children. Yes I believe children can make a difference, but if you are shoving things down their throats that only sets them up to rebel or become weak. Faith is all about mistakes. Sinning is inevitable and we will all fall short of the glory of God. That is what makes us stronger in Christ. You should not welcome sin, but you should not separate yourselves from society. Some Christians believe that if you don't believe what they believe that you will go to Hell. This gives Christians a terrible stereotype of thinking we are better than everyone else.
"If only more christians were committed to meeting the threat from islamic world domination." Is one of the quotes that hit me the most. There should be no war of religions between Christians and other religions. If you are truly Christian you know the bible good enough to know that we are children of Christ. Whether you believe in Him and have accepted Him or not He has created us all, and we are all His children. How you could ever hate your sister or brother in Jesus Christ is beyond me. Before Jesus gave His life for our sins he was always condemned for His knowledge, and thought of as different. In a way you are doing this to others if you are trying to "fight against islamic domination." We are trying to bring people to Christ this will not happen if we condemn them for not believing when we introduce them to it, or shove it down their throats. We are called to live within all beliefs bad or not.
As it says in Matthew 13:27-30
And the servants of the master of the house came and said to him, ''Master, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have weeds?' He said to them, 'An enemy has done this.' So the servants said to him, 'Then do you want us to go and gather them?' But he said, 'No, lest in gathering the weeds you root up the wheat along with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and at harvest time i Will tell the reapers, Gather the weeds first and bind them in bundles to be burned, but gather the wheat into my barn.'"
if only more christians were committed to meeting the threat from islamic world domination
If only more Christians would open their mind up just a tiny crack enough to take a second to try and understand other religions, like Islam. Then maybe they would see that a faith founded on peace is unlikely to take over the world by force.
God gave you a brain. Pay Him some respect and think about trying it out once or twice.
Caroline I am totally confused who god is, is he the christian god or the Islamic one? Muslims will say allah is the same god but he is the opposite of the God jesus represents, he could be the jewish god but if jesus is God then the Jews killed God himself and that could only mean they are doomed. Maybe Satan is God but I had a revelation last night and there is a God but how do you know which one is the right one and which one is satan, either Islam or Christianity is evil, my money would be on Islam being of the devil but Muslims seem to be so nice to me in comparison to christians who seem fake and insincere, I'm certain islam must be the evil side because they stone people to death and behead people in the name of islam, I wish their could be peace but I feel that since no one but muslims can enter islamic holy cities such as mecca and medina then that islam has no room for compromise in asserting islam as the true religion, there is no tolerance of other religions and so the question still remains, the answer could be obvious, if islam was from satan how would it behave, or how would you imagine it would behave?
@James Irvine,
Yeah! (Quote) : -"Confused" to say the least.
But it ain't that bad considering that desease of your's.
Pierre.
@James Irvine,
The least that should be said is that the USA does its fair share of it by killing so many in Irak, torturing and slaughtering everyone they can find? Aren't so happy with this obvious "Domination"?
I understand that it just can't be as much as a pleasure as when in Vietnam a couple of genarations back, seeing a pre-teen girl running over a bridge, her skin dangling down her back after her family house was bombed with napalm!
Those were the days, isn't it James?
Putting to death foreing religions and performing ethnic cleaning!
Haven't you gotten a heck of a good erection?
What a thrill, going back in time to the age of the christian inquisition where the christians used to boil the "Infidels" in boiling vegetable oil!
Only one thing though, it that you and fr sure the pope will need to get treated some day. Cause as far as I'm concerned, you ain't better than any beast that can be found on planet earth.
If a god shows up some day, you sure will be one of the first he'll get rid of. Thrash.
Pierre.
Pierre I might believe allah were not satan if muslims didnt stone people to death and behead people, I'm all for Islam but its a hurdle I cant get over, whatever you may say if you visit yourself and ask if Islam is a religion from God and you can say yes then he is a very dark personality and it must put a question mark on whether god is actually satan. You can say the west is evil bla bla bla but you know people are just evil but you try to make out that it has nothing to do with why these wars have taken place, just blame all americans why dont you.
@James Irvine
That war was against simple peoples was only one among so many these past 50 years. would you like to get the list?
Murder and overthrow of the democratically elected Chilian president to replace him with a psychotic totalitarian dictator (Found guilty at La Haye) known as "Pinochet", overthrow of the democatically elected Iranian president Mossadeth replaced the the Shah, another fine human rights offender criminal.
Reagan who promoted the Contrats arms deal in exchange of hard drugs entering the USA through your beloved CIA.
Guatemaleen criminals being trained by the CIA to seed sedition & revolt, same in Panama with the tolatitarian drug dealer while the USA was under the ordeal of George W. Bush son of a known NAZI partner who took part in providing a safe heaven to NAZI war crime convicts.
Could you spare me the war crimes that the USA commited in both Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia since that you guys still provide safe heaven to known and recognized war criminals like Kissinger among many, so many other convicts?
I shall add that the whole didn't occur at random but was planned by a gang of blood thirsty psychopaths as we seen at the "School of the Assassins".
Have a search on Google about what was this US based school...
Once they felt the heat of the medias, they moved their school of murder and torture to Panama.
Pretty well documented!
Thinking about your comment: -(Quote):
"If only more christians were committed to meeting the threat from islamic world domination".
I repeat : You are a thash.
You don't evren have what it takes to make if as a human being.
Pierre.
I just read your full comment, b4 i just skimmed the beginning and was bored but man you have got some issues, I think you are in a dark place and need some help, you talk 100% hate, you have evil in your soul. If I were you I would start taking a nuetral viewpoint, I bet you hate the Nazis aswell but you think that everything islam do is in self defence, get with the programme the Nazis faced persecution after ww1, they had the same attitude towards being victimised and also created an aura of superiority and they also embraced the world in a PR excercise during the olympic games. They had their own personal agenda which is good or bad depending on your viewpoint and it is not much different a viewpoint from islam across the world today at every level. The Jews and the Yanks are bad people but just remember all people are bad even you.
@James Irvine
I may need help but you need a psy.
As much as these spychopaths displayed in that documentary who teach that christianism is good so that it permit anything as you mentioned ("If only more christians were committed to meeting the threat from islamic world domination)".
You took your stand and the world would be a fine place if it wouldn't be individuals like you. No doubt that just as Cheyney and his gang, you cannot be cured.
Got nothing more to say to such thrashy delirium tremen.
Pierre.
Are you saying that the world should lay down at the feet of islamic radicalism and submit to their will, what we could really use is the Hitler youth who were trained for war as kids like the muslims but this is a peaceful defence movement not an offensive movement like the danger that faces future generations, yes I would like total war and the destruction of the world but it is a better fate than the alternative. Make peace with hell Pierre because the earth is going to be that very place very soon, its revenge for not seeking perfection of self and acceptance of self greed and fulfilment over thinking of others before yourself.
@James Irvine,
Nope! Never said: (Quote) -"That the world should lay down at the feet of islamic radicalism".Rather said and I repeat, that humankind should be very wary about psychotic delirium tremens such as:=>
- (Quote) : -"yes I would like total war and the destruction of the world".
-PS: I never expected to see such a thrash on a decent website as SeeUat Videos!
Cause such a concept was what cause such ordeals as 9/11.
It doesn't emane from a leftist or right wing, but rather from sub-human blood thirsty beasts that already tasted blood.
A lot worst than any Satan or Belzebuth that any tormented individual suffer during his peaks of delirium tremens.
No cure for this!
At best, only a cage can be of help.
You were obviously born to go through your delirium tremen suffering.
I guess that you'll inhirite it through deatch.
With such words (Which were not the firsts), who ever God there can be, doesn't want that sort of individuals.
This being said, have sweet dreams destroying the world.
Pierre.
Pierre you are very closed minded, you dont read between the lines or keep up with world events. Israel is trying to start this war but they are also going to be the first country to be completely destroyed by it, also there has been wars in the past which have been unjustified and very nasty, people remember them with delight and continually reminise about the heros even from the first world war, well particularly that one because they have to wash the blood away and hide the truth about nations killing their own for being scared to fight in a war orchestrated by the royal dynasties. This war would end the oppression of Muslims from Islam and destroy the capatilists and zionists. It might completely destroy the world because it will go nuclear but human beings are destined to kill each other, its in our dna and you should celebrate the wonders of nature. How amazing is it that inanimate objects can come to life and compete so much and have the inteligence to manipulate nature itself to create a bomb powerful enough to kill everyone on the planet, and justify doing this in the name of something they have never seen or have any proof of its existence. The ideas behind christianity are good and thats what sets it apart from islam who fear god so much they stone people to death in order that god wont punish muslims for what that person did. If christians did this they would be evil but at the end of the day all the religions are wrong and only the ideas about improving the world are valid. The only answer is to embrace the priveledge to understand enough to know how crazy the people of the world really are, the end is coming for sure because there are too many possible ways it can happen and their are too many people determined to make it happen.
@James Irvine,
Fully aware Mr. Levine.
I seen "Israel Next War" on PBS...
Kind of the documentary that zealotes like you is unable to watch.
You know? Kind of religee who's convinced that it's a sin to graphically represent "Their" Muhamad since he still living (500-1,000) years ago?
-Else, that christian belief that blood is the spirit of human beings since one bleed to death, "His soul" goes away has he dies?
That make it quite explicit how any homosapien has, have the potential to turn into what we know and should qualify accodingly to their behavior as "NAZI" criminals. Even jews are subject to this desease. Especialy in now days where see see to which these zealotes are sickoe's. About half way to you are.
How many years, rather generations and centuries in peace over there before say, something like 1900?
Bad thing for the arms dealers, for the blood thirsty religees.
In short, the most common thing any and all religion have ever brought to humankind was blood bath.
The so-called extremist jews as well as the extremist moslem suffer from the same desease of not being fit to live in modern world. Just as you are, they are convinced that some day some God ofb their own will come and solve all of their problems tho then commit crimes for them.
That is the basic principle behing deeply rooted racism for which, the only real goal to seize other's weath.
And this, as you stated earlier, is the main leading concept in the USA.
Only one little problem... The real peoples who own the USA (The "We the Corporates" just couldn't care less anymore about the USA citizens.
They truely have only one goal, get the goods ($) out of anybody.
And they finally realized "Where" located most of the weath down on earth.
You ain't out of the wood yet!
Still, you're a waste.
Pierre.
Comment removed by the Administrator. Read the comment policy.
Mr. "Levine",
Your psychiatric healh is in a very bad state.
I seen your reply in my email before it was "Cleaned".
Earlier, much earlier, you were all out against moslems, the world's pleague to hear you (See read). Then, came the christian turn...
And now, we'd be in for the jews?
The holocaust was a bad joke?...
I'll tell y'a how sick you are since 2 of my uncles took part of the liberation of 2 concentration camps...
You just donno what you're talking 'bout and need medical psychiatric care. On top of this, your family name would be "Levine"?
Incredibibly sick!
Pierre.
pierre you are not a fair man, you have opinions and dont seek the truth, the truth is right in front of everyone, it is so stupid why people dont see it
you dont seek the truth. you seek a bias that makes you feel good.
i doubt it, i feel bad about the lies, its something that must be stopped but at the end of the day there are a lot worse things to worry about for people who want the best for their families
i dont think the world is as evil and scary as you think it is,
i think you are paranoid. the world is not a terrible place. there may be terrible things happening but look around you. you have clean water, you have food in your fridge, you have a computer with access to the internet.
you have everything you need and even more. trust me. its not even close to the end of the world. we are all still sitting pretty.
for the west thats the case but in countries such as chile, argentina and Russia it was a nightmare for the people and look what happened in iraq, the us government were not interested in the people there but they got a bad nosebleed and a lot of troops got killed all because they had no interest in helping the people of iraq but just themselves, to make individuals money, it is an evil system
@James Irvine,
There are typical extreme that are very easy to see as one either talk or write.
Seeing your's, it made me certain that whatever my uncles done in Germany, cleaning up the wastes which are a copy of what you expressed, is a very good thing.
Again, the world would be a much better without guys like you.
Read back what you written and confide this at least some (5-10) sain persons.
In some countries, let me tell you, you're in for a couple years of internment.
Lucky you, you're on Internet.
Pierre.
Pierre you are a bigot who believes propoganda, i dont even think you know what is going on in this era never mind in an era tarnished by bad propoganda, its a disgrace
Apparently you buy into religious poopoganda.
@James Irvine,
I pretty much satisfied of what I am and keep away from peoples like you who has the line of conduct that state: "Yes I would like total war and the destruction of the world".
BTW: Didn't seek you pys yet?
Because this is a sure sign of bigoteries.
Pierre.
search on youtube for presentation by David McCalden, watch from 16 minutes until 21 minutes and feel the light of God
this was my childhood.
While I believe it is a difficult film to watch without feeling some sort of anger towards these individuals, if there is anything that I've learned from my post-secondary education it is the importance of empathy. Of course, if your beliefs don't match up there are still ways of listening to others and trying to understand their point of view.
When it comes to Christianity, I am also a Christian myself. However, the difference here is the intensity of 'them'. 'Them' being Evangelical Christians which seem to have some sort of 'rule book' which they follow when it comes to the word of the Lord and how it is that we are supposed to follow him.
This film however was very helpful and inspiring in a religious sense even if you don't agree with them, if can help you to better understand why you are part of one religion and perhaps not another.
I do get why people believe even things as extreme as this, it's an easy answer.
You don't have to think for yourself anymore, anything you need to know and need to be has been written down in a book that has the truth. That has all the answers. There is nothing wrong with believing in the bible, but I think you must consider if the things written in it are still as relevant as they were 2000 years ago. Even the bible carries a lot of contradictions. You just shouldn't let an age-old book think for you.
I also dont think is fair for children to be forced into something as extreme like this because it contradicts advanced education, not because I grewup as a christian and found the bible and religion to be wrong time time again by scientific fact, but I base a lot of everything I do on faith which is mine is very strong its not faith in the lord but faith in myself and people i believe in to do good things. I feel strongly that children are very impressionable are easily influenced and just because actual intelligent adults who think for themselves dont buy into their crap ideologies, doesn't mean they should be legally allowed to prey on children to believe in their half whit ideologies.
I find it comical to hear statements of Science being wrong. You are using household items that had to be chemically altered and manipulated to be in it's current form. And being a talkshow host for a radio station, using a radio tower which sends signals through the air, to send working reception from point A to point B. Hmmm.. I guess science plays no role. Another thing, how hypocritical is it to nullify and disregard another religion, and claim yours as the only correct belief? Everybody views this world on their own facet, and to claim jurisdiction over all of it, is the most ignorant thing any relatively intelligent being can do.
that mother's teaching is so full of logical fallacies.
#sogladtoliveincanada
I personally found this hard to watch and I'm a Christian. I don't agree with the idea that children should be "trained", they're not pets and neither are they soldiers. Growing up in Africa and hearing all the stuff about child soldiers makes me cringe whenever children are referred to as soldiers. I've got an eight year old neice and she doesn't even speak the way some of these kids do. They're seriously not being allowed to be children. Growing up in a Christian family never influenced my decision to become an actual believing Christian and neither has it influenced my neice or any other kids I see at church. These kids should be allowed to choose, God didn't create us to be robots.
In reference to Bush, I reckon she's either naive or confused.
WTF harry potter ? :D laughable is what this is !
As a lot of people here have mentioned, this movie was made in an objective point of view, meaning it was shown as a true documentary, not a (I'm shoving this down your throat so believe it) point of view, this shows how they are, how they feel, how they learn about God, Jesus and every religious belief they have, they're really just giving us a look at their lives, not trying to make us fully accept it. I became a child of God this year, but i was introduced to his existence when i was 5 years old, i didn't understand what he was till i found out myself, my own way. After just watching this, i don't fully agree with what the woman speaks of, but i do see some point in it all. We all have our opinions, but if you thought that this documentary would be something you wouldn't enjoy, then you shouldn't have played it.
HARRY POTTER RULES
I agree Harry Potter is awesome Lord Voldemort was evil.
I believe in a God, not that that's really important, and I agree with a lot of the stuff that the bible says, but I think that Becky's comments are disturbing. She claims that the supposed 'enemies' of Christianity are targeting children to create radicals and fundamentalists. Her geographical discrepancies aside, does she not think it wrong to prey on people's minds when they are still too young to really make up their own minds? Is that not using children in the same way as these supposed enemies to create an army? I mean, fine if you think that a religious army is a good thing, or even a necessary thing, but conscription into the ranks at a young age? Even Stalin would have probably baulked at that..
Peace.
P.S I know that Stalin probably wouldn't have baulked at that, but you get the point. Child soldiers are always a tragedy, active combat or not..
"I have no problem with God, it's the fan club I can't stand"
I am stunned. One user has already commented that you should attempt not to feel anger towards these people whilst watching. I don't know whether to feel tearfully sad for these poor, poor children, or to feel murderously angry at these adults. I am bewildered. One person comments that "science does not prove anything", but then at no point during the rest of the film does any one of these "Christians" show any proof whatsoever for a Sky-God. I am sure some will repsond that it is "rude", "not my place to say it" etc etc, but really, do these adults have any education, critical reasoning skills, or simple common sense between them? I admire people who have and stick to their values, and certainly as a moral idea, as a parable, the bible (also the Quran, the Torah and many other old stories) do contain ideas about living reasonably along-side your fellow humans, but seriously..... I feel so sorry fo those poor, poor children.
I grew up in the evangelical paradigm in Colorado Springs as a kid and I must say that I truly believe that these adults mean well. I was happy that this documentary was pretty objective. It's not very hard for the viewer to form his/her own (usually very strong) subjective opinions.
I have grown and developed my own spiritual views since then and my only hope is that these kids will be able to do the same, especially Levi. He reminds me so much of myself, it was heart-breaking. Shifting out of that paradigm was so hard that I almost ended my life and I pray (yes, I still pray) that all of them will come to have their own personal experience of God free from the radical and CONDITIONALLY loving beliefs of others.
There is some Truth hidden deep in there somewhere, but you definitely won't find it at Jesus Camp.
I live in a society where religious dogmatism is almost absent. Thank lord!!!! ( just an expression....) I just don't get why religious people want everybody else to embrace THEIR vue? Being an Aetheist i do not beleive God exists. But who knows? I may be wrong, you may wrong. Everybody may be wrong and we actually we're brought by aliens. Not. BUT, what I really want to say is leave people alone. I really (really) don't give a damn about your beleifs, as long as you are a good person. Yes a do things which ''should'' send me to ''hell'', no i am not an evil person. Yes their are different view points, no their are no wrong ones. Why should someone be told wrong. Except creationism which is a disgrace to modern knowledge. Any kind of oppression is wrongful, be it for God or for reason.
I am sooo happy i wasn't raised in that figurative hell hole.
One thing that's really wonderful about this movie is it was made not to present any viewpoint about evangelicals but to show it objectively. Most people get the same opinion of it though. It irks them, shows them that this viewpoint is abnormal. I think that this proves the atheist idea that when you apply objective logic to religion it topples the entire institution. If you're watching this for the first time don't let it upset you, learn from it and know that life is not hopeless without these silly superstitions. :)
haha Jesus Camp. *shakes head*
I wonder how much they all have in the bank? What is a camps child preachers wage, my bet pretty good.Isnt the last guy GAY and likes male WHORES!!! Get a grip GOD loves everybody christians catholics muslims protestans lutherans atheiasts jews blacks whites yellows tans off whites and some greens.Man we are all in this together right now.RESPECT goes a long way.Got to give to get.Try to help people whene they need it.THATS GODS WAY!!!!!!!
If there is a Hell, Ted Haggard will be going there when he dies.
As a mature Evangelical Christian I find this extremely disturbing, bordering on brainwashing young minds, who should be led to Christ, not herded and cajoled like this. I wonder how many of these young people are still true confessors of the love of Jesus today? How many of them have a bad and fearful memory of this experience. It makes me think of the load of guilt thrust upon me a a child during my Catholic upbringing, before I knew the true love of the Lord and the forgiveness and redemption freely given and most gratefully received through His grace. I also wonder what impression it leaves with those who are searching for , or have doubts about Christian faith.
And how much ammunition does it give to those who decry our faith and would put every obstacle in the way of the those in youth ministry?
Duncan Galbraith - father of Sian Galbraith whose comments appear below.
I've been a Christian for a long time and involved in Youth Ministry for year's, and all I can say is this so wrong and not Biblical. Not once do they say anything about God's Grace and His Forgiveness. So wrong on so many levels.
Emotional manipulation as well as many other things. I only pray that all those young people will come to know the Loving, Gracious, Forgiving and Caring God who desires intimacy with every person He created. And yes there is sin and we are destined for hell and that is why He sent Jesus, on our behalf so that Jesus would take out place on the Cross (if that isn't Grace then I don't know what is?!) and yes, satan is real and does want to destroy us, God though already has the victory and we don't need to plead with Him to save us or answer our prayers, we don't have to pray to be accepted, He has already chosen us through His love for us. When you have faith you take everything to the Lord in prayer with Thanksgiving and Praise, knowing He will answer and it isn't because we are begging and pleading with Him to answer.
He is Just and Loving and Forgiving and Gracious and He doesn't need us to stand in His stead!
All I can see is they are frightening children and putting fear into them. When you read 2 Timothy 1v7 God clearly say's "I the Lord your God have not given you a spirit of fear, but of Power, and of Love, and of a Sound Mind." Something those people are doing the opposite to. satan is the one who makes people fearful. Not God.
"satan is the one who makes people fearful. Not God"
Are you sure?
Gods the one with the massive bodycount!
errrrrrr god bless america cos if this is what it is like - it really needs help. this is wrong on so many levels i dunno where to start. but its definitely a form of child abuse.
I will pray for all who have left negitive comments that and all of you who do not belive in Jesus, and hope that one day soon you will open your heart to the Lord. God bless you all.
@ scott
"I will pray for all who have left negitive[sic] comments..."
Does that mean we won't be hearing from for a while? :-))
0z
do you have any idea how offensive it is to be prayed for by a religionist if your atheist, prayed for by someone who honestly thinks i (a good moral person) should go to hell to burn forever and ever this is a wish against me worst than what Hitler wanted for the Jewish.
Hi, Ben!
I think you mean to direct your comment at Scott, not me.
Scott's the one doing the 'praying', not me.
I'm an atheist and wouldn't know how to pray anyway! (lol)
Scott said that he'd pray for us and so I sarcastically replied:
"Does that mean we won't be hearing from for a while? :-))"0z
It's a little confusing because I quoted Scott, out of habit. I always put the name of the person to whom my comment is directed at the top and beneath that I always quote something from the post to which I am responding. As you know, this discussion system only goes two deep and so I do a little overkill to avoid any possible confusion as to who it is I am addressing.
And so what did I end up doing?
Causing confusion! (lol)
Sorry 'bout that!
0zyxcba1? When you say: "You know, this discussion system only goes two deep"?
Then, if it gets three deep or say ahum, six deep?
How much confused would we get?
'Coze if you'd go over ten, I'd have a little prob'm.
Oh! 20 in fact, the 10 other ones smell a little!
Pierre.
crucify them, if jesus died for your sins then you can die for yours too................. in your next life maybe you will choose your assumptipons carefully
This is proof to me that there is no merciful God. Observing history, it seems more likely that there are many Gods, if any, who enjoy the entertainment of watching our species repeat the paranoia based hatreds that lead to division, genocide and wars that benefit the manipulative greedy power hungry few. It seems our species will never evolve above and beyond this as long as we are given to all kinds of group think.
How many of these "Cookoos" is there in the USA?
My gosh! The rest of the world will have to take that seriously late of soon.
That some 3% of human beings are becoming dangerous to humankind, espacially when they show up and tell the rest of the world: -Either you are with us lying about the WMD in Iraq, or againts us".
Pierre.
Wow, now this is disturbing... Can't wait for the unedited version showing children with guns in their hand shouting "Death to Allah!"
There are no limits to human stupidity.
haha what the f*** harry potter is a worlock and thus an enemy of god!!!! If it was in the old testiment he would be put to DEATH!!!!!! hes a fictional f***ing character what is wrong with these people
isn't gluttony one of the 7 deadly sins? outrageous.
This is a disgrace. These adults are lying straight to these kids faces and teaching them to not be a normal individual, a free thinker. These kids are too young to understand the politics behind abortion. I absolutely hate these parents for doing this to their children. I was absolutely floored when I saw the mother of Levi telling him that creationism is the only explanation and evolution is absolutely false and stupid.....These people are endangering the future of this country...Their exploiting these kids as well for their own personal gain...I believe South Park covered an episode about that
All these people are obsessed with is war and bloodshed...
IndoctriNation
i cannot say how discusted i am at this. it literally brought me to tears to see what these kids are put through. they are being trained to take down the government and take away rights of anyone that is different. i would never condem them for being or believing different than me so why should they do that to the rest of us? that one girl even spoke out against other christians churhes, and you know those were not her words, but words that were forced into her mind by repeated conditioning. this isnt christians against "non believers" this is christians against christians... its sad
Why do you blame all the worlds problem's on Palestinians? The lady at the beggning, she explicitly states she wants radicals as they do. And that she has the truth, that is not only selfish, close minded, but its wrong. She venerates Bush, and does not look inwards into problems of consumerism etc... Into the problems withint the country, with the Poor-rich gap, and is oslely focuses on religious... Ah enver mind.
from Wikipedia:
"There is also a scene at New Life Church in Colorado Springs, Colorado where Ted Haggard preaches a sermon against homosexuality. The scene was shot before the scandal following revelation that Haggard had had sexual relations with men. "
and
"In November 2006, escort and masseur Mike Jones alleged that Haggard had paid Jones to engage in sex with him for three years and had also purchased and used crystal methamphetamine.[1] Jones said he had only recently learned of Haggard's true identity, and explained his reasons for coming forward by saying, "It made me angry that here’s someone preaching against gay marriage and going behind the scenes having gay sex." Jones made the allegations public in response to Haggard's political support for a Colorado Amendment 43 on the November 7, 2006 Colorado ballot that would ban same-sex marriage in that state. Jones told ABC News, "I had to expose the hypocrisy. He is in the position of influence of millions of followers, and he's preaching against gay marriage. But behind everybody's back [he's] doing what he's preached against."[13] Jones hoped that his statements would sway voters.[14]
Eventually, Haggard acknowledged almost all of the allegations against him, including using meth."
Now I am not a big fan of religion or the idea of God, but I seriously doubt that this is what Jesus intended all of those years ago. This is disgusting to watch. And the worst thing is that A LOT of people look at islam like twisted religion, which it probably is. But this is not better at all. I think the US should take a hard look at this problem.
I'm a christian by choise, but not belonging to a church and I know bible's been altered by man. Seeing how these kids are denied of a choise and a free thinking makes me sick. It's not right, it doesn't feel right, and the morale is all screwed up when you preach against abortions on the one hand but advocate violent mass murder crusades, warmongering and narrow-sighted hatebreeding on the other. My religion singlehandedly teaches not to lie and pretend, and I don't like the way some people preach about it like it's all something you just have to believe without thinking yourself or accepting someone else's thoughts. Staying true to yourself... I wonder if these kids are allowed to stay true to themselves. Seeing their scared and suffering faces tells more than any word you put on their mouth.
I hope someone will get it to those children's heads that they're humans, beings that can make mistakes, inherent mistakes too. We all make some. It is important to recognice, accept and carry your life on after that. It's both a dangerous and very punishing way of thinking to think otherwise, to think that you're above humane mistakes. To just carry on. And to teach them how real world works. The whole deal smells like american bubblegum pie made in the white ivory tower to the boot. It's gonna be a bigger shock for them later on if the smartest and truly bravest of them start to question the way they were raised, and see that all the pieces really don't fit, those who just can't bear the feeling to their grave. The rest of them staying comfortably with the blue pill, giving same life to their children.
There's still something so humane about them.
The Bible wasn't "altered by man"--the Bible was CREATED by man. That said, I'm glad that professed Christians recognize that there are many psychotic Christians #babysteps.
I sincerely hope that some of these children grow up and realize how insane their parents are and leave this brain washing behind.
Sarah Palin comes from this kind of brainwashing from an early age. She is the poster child for these cult crazies. Ironically she is a gift to those of us wishing to awaken the American voting public to what is a persistent and growing conspiracy by the powerful people behind the curtain, like the Kochs, who fund, create and cynically use these cult warped brainwashed robots to gain more political power. This is the "dominionists" movement and it is based on a warped old testament approach rather than following much of anything Jesus is credited with teaching.
Scaring the Hell out of these children with going to a pit of fire and brimstone if they do not walk a righteous path, THIS IS MIND CONTROL!!!!
Reminds me of the movie, "The Children of the Damned", this is brainwashing of religion at its worst!
Scary stuff! Harry Potter should be put to death? Home schooling- teaching Creationism! F*** Middle America is retarded.
The bit where the woman said "(the children) are so usable in christianity" made my blood curl.
"Use your cute kid face, until you are 30 and by then you'll have good content."
What a mean thing to say to that kid. (about one hour into the film)
Cody, terrorizing children into believing medieval metaphysical propaganda is, as determined by the rational few, most decidedly crazy.
It's very true that everyone is entitled to their beliefs. But where people like this cross the line is when they believe that people who don't share their values are infidels upon whom it's necessary and their duty to declare war.
Science is, for the most part, at odds with the beginning of the universe the bible espouses. It's true that anything is possible, and it's possible that there is an almighty being that created the universe. But until the free thinkers are shown more evidence other than the fact that the theory can't be concretely disproven, I think it's safe to say that we'll stick to our fact-based science and reason-based conclusions.
Hope, love and peace are some of the most important things in this world. I find that I rarely feel hope in believing that if I don't strictly follow a book that tells me that the world was created thousands of years ago, I will suffer eternal damnation.
Religion's main attraction for most is the sense of community and fellowship with others it brings. But there is absolutely no reason not to have fellowship and unity with others without chanting to a likely nonexistent entity. I think I would feel just as hopeful and uplifted spending time with people who shared my beliefs of tolerance, gentleness with the earth and each other simply for the sake of it being the right thing to do than if we were praising a god.
I'll end simply by saying, the next time you think religious zealots aren't that crazy, remember that it was never an atheist who flew a plane into a building or burned someone alive at the stake.
This is the first time I've seen speaking in tongues. Truly terrifying.
lol at Pastor Hippo calling other Christians fat.
If warlocks are enemies of god, what the heck was the LOTR book doing on top of the kitchen table in one of those homes?
Brainwashing to this extent... the most evil poison of them all.
I saw the book, too and wondered the same. I was kind of expecting them to burn it in some kind of ritual~*~
maybe that's in the director's cut.
why does everyone see this as crazy? it seems like everyone despise Christians, just because of there beliefs. If this were a documentary about Islam, Hindu, or whatever else you would say have an open mind. When it comes to Christianity, everyone has a closed mind.
All I am trying to say is, this may have validity to it. Like all the other religions we should be tolerant to. Christianity should not be discounted just because of the perception you have seen of it.
I am talking of the spirituality^.
As for the homeschooling and all that, I would have to say why couldn't God, the creator all things (like they say), use science? Why i science not true? Why couldn't the Big Bang be Gods use of creating the world? When God spoke, something had to have happened for the world to be created. I am just trying to think and get others to think.
God is real to me. This christian lifestyle gives me hope. Hope that there is good in the world. That we are all connected and care and love one another. Jesus was an amazing individual who led a sinless life and knew how to live. These people, in the documentary, teach this stuff, but live a different way, it seems.
Don't follow christians, follow God and Jesus. The only true way of life
..Yeah, it's the brainwashing people seem to have an issue with, not the religion itself. Brainwashing IS crazy and should be intolerable. Individuals should have the right to choose what they believe in, instead of having an adult shove their beliefs down their throat until they believe that is the only way too.
Yes, it IS because of the beliefs. What else did you think it would be? Preposterous claims are preposterous, regardless of religion or origin. Christianity is most frequently picked on because it is the most visible and most familiar. Its teachings have been thoroughly picked apart.
The big bang can't be the Christian god's use of creating the world because that isn't what the bible claims. Even if you did manage to link it to the very start of the universe, other elements of the creation story (creation of man and woman, etc) would still be ridiculous. Additionally, the big bang is just a theory. More plausible than the invisible man in the sky but a theory nonetheless.
Your lifestyle and beliefs may give you hope. But that doesn't mean that they are true. Religion doesn't have a monopoly on spirituality and morality. There is greater joy in living without being crippled by fear and ignorance masquerading as truth.
ugh...the christian persecution complex is the most ironic thing in the world!
Christians aren't being persecuted for their faith, they're being ridiculed for being insane.
God can't use science, because his existence breaks all the rules of science, I'm sorry dude, but the fairy tale is over, it's time to put away childish things...there is no god, there cannot be a god...And holding on to a concept of god is keeping us from discovering what is really out there!
God and jesus are no way of life, because they don't exist except in the incredibly flawed philosophy that keeps them bound to us, and keeps us in a state of constant war.
I clearly heard the psychopathic female preacher state: "War", bring war" while being frantic under some machievellous spell.
You and your gang are not talking about god but rather torture and murders as it we once seen at the school of assassins in Georgia USA that you also exported to Panama.
And you guys are still voting for that, albeit you are fully aware.
As aware as any NAZI ever been.
Obviously, you are totally unaware that the apocalypse was written by peoples who were on psychedelic mushrooms.
So take your garages and shove it where it goes, you sure know where!
For now, USA doesn’t have much wisdom to teach to anybody.
Pierre.
the most interesting thing about Belief, is that there's a clear lie tying the two ends together.
Tolerance ends where ideas and actions that cause harm to the psyche of other human beings (who are not capable of nor empowered to protect themselves) begin.
I'm critical of those who are burning men and women to death because they believe they are witches (yes, this is ACTUALLY still happening in our world).
I'm critical of those who hack at the genitals of boy and girls; be it religious or cultural.
I'm critical of those who put guns in the hands of children and teach them to hate specific groups of people who are not really their enemy (even if some in that group are or might actually be).
I'm critical of those who attack the civil rights of our brothers and sisters and children and parents and siblings and friends and loved ones who happen to have been born having either a gender identity of sexuality that is outside of the ignorantly uninformed gender binary norm.
I'm critical of those who advocate violence, especially when it is violence against civilians -- and yes, I'm critical of my own government having committed horrific acts of violence against the civilians in a growing list of nations. They do not represent the will of the people in these actions - we are kept largely uninformed and we have as little power as you do to stop our governments from acting badly.
I'm critical of those who promulgate racism and sexism, doubly so if they do so as part of an ideology (mere ignorance can be corrected).
For me, Christianity ceased being an option when I read the Bible and educated myself as to the genocide, infanticide, slavery, and intolerance (e.g., against homosexuality) inherent in the Bible itself.
1 Samuel 15 slaughter the infants and suckling babies
Joshua 6 another slaughter that includes children
2 Kings 2 bears sent to slaughter young men in response to ridicule
1 Kings 18 850 priests taken and slaughtered when they couldn't prove their god was real
Exodus 12 all first born killed
Jeremiah 50 all Merathaim slaughtered, including children
Exodus 22:17 kill witches
Numbers 31:18 kill everyone but take the virgin girls as sex slaves
Deuteronomy 7 Genocide the 7 nations and take their land
Leviticus 25:45-46 foreign slaves are your property for ever; but treat fellow Israelites as indentured servants & be nicer to them.
Even in the New Testament Paul sends the slave Onesimus back to his master and ONLY entreats for his manumission because Onesimus 'had become useful' (became a Christian). Shows incredible intolerance and speaks not one whit against the institution of slavery.
And for the few things in the Bible I find positive I didn't need the Bible to tell me about them.
Combine that with a complete lack of even basic medical knowledge, the mentally ill have 'demons' cast out of them, no understanding of the actual causes of disease such as virus, bacteria, genetic, poisons, etc. No pointers to any of the hundreds of plants that could have actually relieved some suffering (pain killers, antibiotics, etc).
A sad & disturbing doc.
Religious fundamentalists are the biggest threat to Humanity & the Christians are Just as bad as the Muslims & Jews for brainwashing gullible children. Why do the Christians insist on saying that America was founded on Christian beliefs when it was not, It was founded on secular beliefs. Children need to be protected from these religious nut-cases, because they are gullible enough to believe this nonsense. That crazy woman really needs to take her medication. She can believe whatever outdated myths that wants to, but please leave the children out of it.
Dear USA,
WTF?
Sincerely,
The rest of the world
Hey now, no fair... if you recall Europe* dumped a lot of their religious nutjobs on us early on and we're still trying to recover. :)
But seriously, we're not all like that & our secularist movements are trying to grow.
That woman is wackaddoo.
The lack of knowledge of those heading up the camp is, to understate it, wanting. Children are no different than adults in that their degree of comprehension varies, but it is interesting to see them phrasing their faith and convictions away from the camp environment in the last video. That is good. The most appalling, boarding on disgust, was Haggard with his shallow, carnal comments into the camera and to Levi after worship. If ever there was a display to shock those kids back to reality, Haggard fulfilled that role.
This is the kind of activity which throws some people into spasms about brainwashing. Get real. As mistaken as is Becky Fisher and her associates on doctrine the brainwashing tactics are absent. Please. Do not diss the children's intelligence even with their limited knowledge of scripture. I believe the street witnessing at the end of the video is a fair testimony of the power of the children's mental capabilities as heard between Levi and the little girl. Her comments, especially, are powerful insights as to their witnessing work, people's reaction, the kids' own perceptions to the people's reactions and the fact they are just kids.
What troubles the radio guy, as I perceive it, is his total inability to respond to Becky in the framework of faith/religion or politics he seemed so comfort doing so with callers to his show of like mind with himself.
Fundamentalists christianity in America seems to be ruining politics. The Republican party is flooded with religious crazies. Its seems that you either vote for people who give money to corporations, or vote for people who use the bible to govern the country.
I am no more alarmed about the alleged ruining of politics which you state than I am concerned about the errant handling of faith to produce an outcome in politics. Whether one approaches their country or world, be it politics or world poverty, it is our exchange in discourse between us all that produces an outcome.
The truth is dialog is discarded in deference to sound bits (or should I say "sound shots") to disparage, ridicule or otherwise give the impression we have a better or true understanding of matters. That's alright. But, lets bring it to the table.
Interesting...
Worlocks are enemies of god!
Terrifying...
Would it be wrong to crucify that woman?
Lol.
Yes it would be -- she was probably brainwashed/indoctrinated (whatever you want to call this) as a child herself (not that when it happens really matters, THAT it happened is clear) and as someone recovering from a religious upbringing myself I would urge you show them more compassion than they show others.
You don't liberate other minds by demonizing them. You can be critical of the beliefs and actions but you have to find compassion and empathy for the human being.
Even if someones actions are egregious enough to warrant imprisonment we must still have compassion, Imprisonment is, of course, foremost to protect society but if we don't even TRY to help people find their humanity so they can truly pay their debt and become productive members of society then we become the 'savages'.
Work to build a society where you can be proud of how it treats the least among them.
The sadness of this documentary is, that we are told in the bible and by all morally perfect church going people. That we have free will! Yet, I see nothing of Free Will being taught to any of the children or adults in this film. Let alone given a choice to use that free will.
Tell me this?
If you ask someone after becoming knowledgeable of God by
another who told you?
Wouldn't it be right to tell them.
If you weren't told to begin with, would you even believe?
I think Yes it would. Because it is by one another that
we pass down this fairytale to begin with.
These are the type of people which cause many to lose their faith. They not Christians. They are bigoted zealots and have much in common with cultists and Nazis. It is everything that is wrong with organized religion.
There's something sad here, athenascurse, but it's not the documentary. Is it merely because the term "Free Will" or a session on Free Will was not held at the camp that you say the children were not taught it?
What do you call their willful determination in the street witnessing in the last video whether to go to one person but not another or even to be out at all? As posted earlier, the little girl's comment "we're just kids" speaks volumes to your point about Free Will.
Great doc, these are extremist though
What is it the extreme element as you understand it, Christopher?
The documentary is worth watching. However, it is very disturbing and I was sorry for these children. I wonder though if this film only depicts an extreme, or is more common place in the US than I can imagine. I liked the “raw” style of the movie - there wasn’t much commenting.
Full Disclosure: I follow Christ and His teachings and those found in the Bible....obviously with my interpretations of what those teachings mean and how they are applied. I also attended the church where Lou Engle was on staff in Pasadena, CA. The documentary was fascinating as an outside observer AND inside observer, having worshiped at a church that fully reflects that of the kind of Christians shown in the film.
To say I have very mixed feelings about the people in the film is an understatement....there are many tensions. For leaders to raise up young leaders with the language of "spiritual battle" in an age of terrorism must be done so very carefully, but to judge that such churches and children are domestic terrorists of a different stripe is ignorant at best, or worse, outright bigotry. I am not against home-schooling, either, but to tell your children what is true, go against science in a narrow-minded manner without extending and cultivating freedom for your child to think critically and decide for themselves...well, even God doesn't do that with us, right? To the question of indoctrination...yes, I think that happened here...but doesn't EVERY parent raise up their children with THEIR philosophies and/or religious beliefs either by outright speech and correction or mere modeling of personal behavior? Let's be real here: you just DON'T like the church's spiritual and political views....be honest. Don't indoctrinate yourself into believing you are so reasonable and decent when you just don't agree or maybe even feel challenged to change and possibly agree with them.
What the church did here that was profound was challenge the "young" to greatness. When the children were praying for the nation and weeping for the sins of our fathers and mothers, our leaders...that was powerful. My heart broke with them while simultaneously being humbled that such a work was being carried out by "the least of these". It didn't justify everything that church was doing in its faulty, narrow-mindedness to overall truth, but to disallow the beauty and spiritually truthful vigor of the youth would be tragic.
Absolutely disgusting.
this is the scariest thing i've ever seen
*face palm*...wow
This is a good documentary, it think this has shown a lite into a great ministers. The last commenter was right, about how if you don't walk in the spirit you do not under the spirit. And if i were out side the church i would think it were craziness, not even i under stood what the Holy Ghost was untill i got it myself. So i dont not expect anyone to understand this a well. but i think that people worship in diffrent ways this is not like my church, but if you are fallowing God and ask him to help you understand you can and will one day.
Nothing surprises me about America any more. These people are probably well intentioned (on their own side of course!)and almost certainly not very intelligent. They cover their fascistic views up with the Christian faith and use a doctrine of love (Jesus anyway) to push for hate and intolerance, then they feed this bilious mixture into the heads of their unfortunate offspring - tower and a rifle anyone? No wonder American politics is so FU if the politicians have to pander to this group of fanatical fascists (just in case you're in any doubt, fascists are people that tell others how to live). The trouble is that these reactionary halfwits tend to outbreed thinking folk at an alarming rate. I'm with Richard Dawkins - religion is a blemish on human consciousness. Hurry up and evolve, we're waiting.
I also wonder how much it costs those parents to send those kids to her camp?
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”
“Let him who is without sin cast the first stone.”
“Put your sword in its place, for all who take the sword will perish by the sword.”
Wow, doesn't sound like strap on explosives and be violent towards anyone who doesn't think like you to me. I also love how she's like "There's so many fat lazy Christians," when's she's as big as a damn house. Hypocrite much? I think Christ would be ashamed of these people, he condemned religious phonies above EVERYONE, rather than shame prostitues, tax collectors, and adulterers. I agree with the radio host that we must allow people to form their own beliefs and be able to think for themselves. How dare this woman call these children phonies and make them cry!
This documentary honestly scares me. That's all I'm going to say on this.
This film and The Right Feeling So Wronged will frighten the H*ll out of you. We have the first indoctrinated citizenship that have discarded education, science and human history as liberalism and fantasy. These are the people that will vote against themselves on red herring issues like a women's rights and pro-choice; that will vote against themselves because they've been told to fear same-sex marriage (when heterosexual marriage ends in divorce and infidelity 90% of the time!) These people are why a nitwit from Wasilla almost became VP. They can't see past their own indoctrinated dogma from the Jerry Falwell TV Evangelical brainwashing they've spent the last 30 years absorbed in. They are a larger version of Jonestown. And it's frightening; our education system has failed.
This camp is disgusting. I have no problem whatsoever with religion of any kind, but brainwashing innocent children is sick. I am so glad people do not go to these kinds of extremes in England, and even if some tried i would not be shocked to see a large scale protest against such things to follow.
There is nothing wrong with people believing whatever they want to, but they should let their children have free will to choose what they believe after teaching them all the available options with no bias.
Afterall, if the christian god does exist, he intended human kind to have free will. These people are disgusting, highly hypocritical human beings and if the day of judgement comes, they will be held to account.
Money and political vote factory! Nice amount of THEM, 80 million. Happy that my children do not live in America!
God bless America! ;)
It's sad but if any of them would be thrown into a horrible situation their faith would be questioned.
This is sick.... It took me 3 hours to watch this because it is so hard to watch these kids being brainwashed and a lot of them won't ever be able to get out of this environment and think for themselves. Science is wrong? Global warming isn't a problem? If they were taught about religion in school (not bias to christianity) then they could develop their own opinions and believe what they want to. I must admit, this ending was hilarious though and Rachel is def my favorite "Jesus Soldier"
lmao
this movie honestly freaked me out big time. I think its cool that there family is raising them to know about jesus at such a young age but i think they take it too over board. these kids are going to believe anything you tell them there kids and it just freaked me out. another thing that i was kinda ify about was when one of the little girls was judging other churches calling them dead churches i think any place where they speak the word of the lord is holly people just have different ways of worshiping him but over all this video was totally BS to me.
i would like to request a death match with fat pastor lady. i'm not above it, i would bust her fat face.
quit projecting the disgust you feel for yourself onto these kids. enough of self-loathing monotheistic religions!
was interesting (not "neat") to see yet another Religious group put Eskrima sticks & headbands into the hands of children, {I'm really starting to worry 'bout those three Abrahamic Faiths}
@Vilya
Just some historical facts: Galileo wasn't killed by Church. Jordano Bruno was.
It's a pure zombyland! It's absolutely disgusting! It's not only about the misleading stuff they are being taught but also they way HOW they are taught. I would even say, it's a crime to break young minds and to use such tactics. They will become zombies and tirans like Hitler.
How great it would if Huxley's "Island" came true:
"It was the Old Raja's idea," Vijaya answered. "He wanted to make the children understand that all gods are homemade, and that it's we who pull their strings and so give them the power to pull ours."
This video was pretty sad, those people just took advantage of all those little kids. =[.. Their k i d s! There never going to have a mind of their own, nor will they get a chance to openly explore the world and the people.
Disgusting, I had to stop during the second part. Did the fat **** really openly envy that people die for the belief in Islam and that she would be happy if these children would grow up to become Christian suicide bombers??? **** her and the parents who readily deliver their children to these people instead of protecting them. This is child abuse of the worst sort, at least the catholics only **** their choirboys, looks like the born agains take it to a whole new level...
Poor childeren!
They are brainwashed!!!
This 'religious people' think to know what jesus en god exactly wants en think and if you don't folow his 'rules' you go to hell that is so stupid!!
Only in America...
Highly disturbing that we have something like that in 2011!
I understand and respect formalized religion in moderation, not in the fanatical way like in this doc.
It's scary to think that the US, which is relatively young and naiive in terms of developing it's own "culture" can be swayed by such extremist Christians. These religious folk are swaying elections, and thats going to result in legislation changes, changes in power at the supreme court, changes in how America wages war.. it will literally affect world relations.
America better watch out because these Christians clearly get really riled up when they're chanting about the blood of Jesus. Who else is ever going to stand up and confront the descisions that they are going to push for? As America develops into a more dominant power this shit is what the US will stand for, ALL Americans included. God Damn! I wish atheists and scientists and Darwinians could get this unified and fight back against this madness. When you compare the numbers Atheists outnumber hardcore Christians by far, but where the f--k are they to sway the vote? Unless people can find a way to stand up to this bullshit American society will eventually be based solely around Jesus Christ, is that what America is?
Jesus.... move to Canada already.
Jesus can come to Canada. Those wackos in this doc can stay behind.
This is probably one of the saddest things ever. It's so wrong that I can hardly believe it.
"We'll wash them in the water of your name God" - I wonder how much Nestle had to pay for God for the endorsement?
That woman needs to read Proverbs 23:20–21, Proverbs 28:7, Proverbs 23:2.
This is one of the most twisted and disturbing things I have watched. I am 13 and watching those children some even younger than me get in such a state was just wrong. God would never have wanted 'Soldiers' or 'War' I though god and Jesus' message was all about love. The woman talked about these children in islam learning to fight at camps and how wrong it was and then she went on to preach to children about being soldiers and dying for god. Hypocritical much. Why are they encouraging children to feel that way, willing to die for someone that they can't even see! Its ludicrous and God/Jesus would have never wanted that. On Harry Potter its ridiculous what she was saying about it. its a FICTIONAL book and JK Rowling wrote it from her imagination, she never intended it to send out a message about christians. They need to sort out the difference between fiction and reality in their minds. I agree that children learning to love their neighbor, not steal etc is good if it helps get the message across to love each other. But they should not be weeping and crying about god. Seriously I was horrified, Homophobes should also GO TO HELL. As I have said before Gods message is a one of love and acceptance. No human being should be shunned because of their sexuality. The Global Warming thing at the start also disgusted me, its clearly a problem, Animals aka Gods creatures are dying because of it and because of human greed. Gloval warming also unbalances the earths atmosphere and can lead to natural disasters again loss of more life. Science is an important fundamental lesson for children to be taught and to completely lie to them about it is just an absolute joke. Seeing his has made me resent religion , I go to church every sunday and I like the basic principals of loving those around you. But what I have seen on this video is taking things to far. Its really is disgusting I can't even talk about it anymore.
What are "Biblical facts", Alex?
I believe this, above all else, emphasises the importance of the seperation between church and state. Good thing you have a new president who seems to be less eager to let his faith guide his policy. I can't understand believing in God. I guess if you do you do and if you don't, you can't.
this is disgusting.......
All I can say is that, having watched the film and read the comments in their entirety, I now understand even less about the rationale of those Christians who posted here to DEFEND Becky or state that she cannot be judged by a non-christian than I thought I did.
When confronted by a set of practices ranging from ridiculous (Warlocks are enemies of God) to insanely dangerous (wanting to indoctrinate Christian kids like she supposes Muslim kids are indoctrinated/ to die for god), the people of faith who posted above seem more interested in rationalizing Becky's behavior or even commending it than taking a frank look at what is being done in the name of their ideology.
I believe Charles B referred to the kids in this video as balanced and well-adjusted...
That makes baby Jebus cry :(
@Miguel
Speaking of not knowing, no one has any idea of "God" or for that matter what his so-called word is and you are no exception.
Speaking of not knowing, I'll even go so far as to posit that you are ignorant of the very Bible that you preach and quote from.
Speaking of not knowing (or perhaps knowing), your evocations of T.D. Jakes, Joel Osteen and Benny Hinn reads like a roll call of the despiccable.
These people in the film aren't perfect, therefore, they will make mistakes here and there, but compared to those who do the opposite of what God says in the bible, these kids are on the right track. There definitely needs to be some explanation of the certain behaviors to teach the viewers so they don't judge blindly what they don't know. You'd have to learn the truth from the bible in order to realize that these kids understand far much more than what most adults know nowadays. I don't see anything wrong with worshipping God and obeying his word. There is a special invitation in heaven from the Lord, some will respond the call and others will ignore it and continue with their worldly man-made customs. T.D. Jakes, Joel Osteen, Benny Hinn and many more would be quite happy for these kids. May God bless us all.
Evil. How can you take away a child's innocence like that??
My heart is breaking. This is documented systematic child abuse. I am shocked and stunned. Ignorance is rife and growing it is propagated by these sorts of "I need clear answers because thinking hurts my brain box" types.......
The lady said near the end "how can I enjoy heaven if I had not told the ones I love about Jesus" I want to ask her where is her compassion. How can anyone enjoy heaven when you firmly believe there are people burning and suffering for all eternity in hell. What type of faith can teach such horrors.
You guys are all religious nuts. Religion is false. That is all.
This is why I moved to Israel. It's people like her who make me sick. Americans don't know this, but Israel is mostly secular. And the crazies you actually do see don't make their kids "speak in tongues" and convulse on the floor. Child Protection Services should have control over situations like this!
Becky Fischer and flock: Do you have any idea how downright silly you look and sound?
Enough has been written about the deleterious effect of your ululations and pululations on children.
By the way, if god is so all-seeing, etc., why need our prayers be so repetitious, puerile, servile and prolix? As a matter of fact why pray at all. If god is so omniscient (again etc.)--he should know what we seek before we raise our voices in supplication.
I'm not as bothered by these religious people as some. At least they are trying to live what they rant about. Of course I think they are brainwashed to believe such a thing as an invisible being that is watching over everything and refuses to show itself but just expects you to "have faith".
Some thoughts I had tho watching this was - man these kids cry all the time - do they ever laugh and enjoy childhood? I also noticed that they only prayed heavily with the adults around. All the praying was funny and I admit I laughed when they did it for everything. It shows to me a lack of humility and no idea of sharing that whether or not for example your powerpoint works while others are praying for family not to die or something. Why bother god with petty things is what I was thinking. It's like they don't give a moment away to be their life, their mistakes, their faults, they just pass their entire existence over to a god because if they pray over it all then they can blame anything bad on satanic interruption and attribute anything good to divine intervention. Not a shabby cycle to reinforce belief.
The problem I had was one part where the guy was passing around visuals of babies at different stages of life. His 7 week baby was fully developed. That is not truth nor is it how babies look at 7 weeks. This reinforces the brainwashing, these people are given false information and they roll with it.
If they never look beyond this religion they will just be the sheeple that gave up their "free will" for belief in a god that their fathers told them about and never search or question it or even investigate other religions - let alone being non religious. I got smacked in the mouth as a kid for saying there was no god. I feel their entrapment but not everyone escapes religion so some of them may never get to research outside of their bubble and are lost causes. I am an atheist so don't mind me, just passing thru.
To bad every Christian in this world isn't like little Racheal all the negativity surrounding Christianity would cease to exist if every Christian was sincere, compassionate, and kind like she is.
When they're blessing the church, I think it's really funny that they pray to God so that He won't disrupt the message going out. Why would He want to disrupt "His word?" Maybe because they're screwing it up and making what might have once been a nice outline to live life by into a psychotic form of extreme religion? Hmm.
Interesting documentary. I am surprised how many 'atheist types' are constantly using this as antichristian propaganda when here is what I am seeing:
- The video seems to begin from the perspective of Christians calling out nonsense among their kind. This is VERY GOOD and tells me Christians are sensible and to some extent 'police themselves'.
- The doc shows us an aberration. This is something unusual and not normal among Christians (relatively speaking). So that is good. The exception is proving the rule. This tells me Christians, as a rule, do NOT do this.
- When I looked at overall stats and investigated I found that these types of 'charismatic-evangelical' groups make up a very small % of Christians and then it is still only a fraction of those groups in 'Jesus Camp' type corners.
It also amazes me how many post, link, refer to this video as 'example of Christianity' when most (not all) but most in these discussions are well aware how documentaries can obviously just find any crazy corner. Few people are unaware of this. Most of us are not so dull and naive to watch this and say to ourselves "Oh wow! THIS is what Christians do?".
Anyways, good documentary and as a Christian who actually does something about this kind of heresy/aberrant movement and as someone who actually has to deal with these types (including their counter-attacks) it is good to see Christianity does have its own 'error checking' mechanisms, calls out BS and exposes unhealthy movements like this.
Mind you... having said all that. It's not like these people are doing things like teaching the kids how to have 'fisting sex' or that Jews and Americans ought to have their heads cut off or that suicide bombs are their destiny. So getting a grip on the 'seriousness' you have nutters 'praying for America' and promoting 'crying for peace and love' etc etc. This is the last thing people need to act like they are 'scared of'.
As if THIS is a real worry in your society. It isn't.
I agree with Irish Dave. This is amazingly terrible.
Best comedy of the year! Hands down.
Charles,
Thank you for the suggestion, but I hate politics. I prefer to make people happy with my music. I'm sorry if you were hoodwinked, but I was not. I was told multiple things and made up my mind. Luckily I had an excellent school system which did say that it was a theory and not fact. I'm glad to hear you are open to them learning through university. Good luck in all of your future endeavors. It is fantastic that you are planning on becoming teachers by the way.
Dan
Daniel: You should go into politics as well; you said 3,987 words without saying a thing! Good job.
Of course I plan to give my kids every advantage I can in life; science, litterature, and faith, but the greatest of these is faith. If they want to learn about the theory of evolution in college, that's fine. Until then, I intend to provide for them sound counter arguments to such so that they do not get nearly "hoodwinked" like I was as a kid by my teachers that didn't say, "This is only a theory" but this "the truth; evolution is a proven fact." I could have lost my very soul had I not learned later how fallacious they were.
I'm glad I had Christian parents, but I wish I would have had highly intelligent parents that could have helped guide me in the ways of faith and science together, rather than fully trusting the untrustworthy public school system to "do no harm" to their kids.
But, if my wife and I become teachers/professors at a Christian college/school, like we are planning, our kids can go there too, and I'd feel much better about that. To honor God is paramont to all else in my mind.
Good day and peace to you.
@ Charles
You realize I have never stated what I believe about the origins of man. Being exposed to multiple theories was not a negative thing. Anyone who is aware of the theories can still believe in creationism, just look at many christians. Although they are aware that the theory of evolution is exists they believe in god's word. You yourself are aware of what information is out there and you believe what you wish, but I feel you won't be harming your children by giving them information. It reminds me of a former aquaintance of mine from saudi arabia. He was quite against the women's rights he saw here in the states because he was raised to think otherwise. And although I disagree with his opinions on suffrage etc. I still think he benefited from being aware that other systems of rule exist.
Another example could be seen with the Amish, who raise their children very religiously until they have a period of self-reflection during which they decide to either leave or return to their families. Many of them are happy that they left, as there are also those who are happy staying. But all were aware of the differences between their lives and the outside world. They made up their own minds based on what was presented to them and in the end each feels they have made the correct decision. I think all children should make up their minds based on what is presented to them, denying that would be like the Amish denying their kids to explore the world and decide for themselves. From your tone it seems as though you think I was marred by my school system. Well, I'd like to think that being raised religiously has made me a better person, and also think that being told what exists in the world has made me better as well. From a young age I was always interested in two things, science and music. Both are a large part of my life today. If anyone had denied me the chance to learn of both, it would be quite a shame. Just because one reads of a theory does not mean one must accept it, but knowledge is a gateway to self reflection, whether it be knowledge of religion, poetry, philosophy, or history. I see we may disagree own how to raise our children, but I hope you support yours, no matter what they choose to believe about the world. Support them, and they will love you for it.
God Bless
Daniel: You are a prime example of why I want to homeschool. Thank you for proving my point. I narrowly escaped the quagemire that is the evolution solution pollution that mires our kids' minds starting with the cartoons on T.V.
I feel as though it is unfair for the mother in the beginning to say that creationism is the only possible answer. My parents did not talk to me about evolution growing up, I learned through my public school system. I also learned of the way god had created all living things through my religious studies. I have made up my own mind about the origin of man and am happy that I was exposed to more than one theory. It is sad that the child in part one of this video would be content at a school where one would be called stupid for believing in evolution. It would be better for all parents to discuss the theories out there, as evolution has valid points not to be ignored by those who blindly accept the word of the lord.
In addition, I feel as though the children were being raised to think that if you are anything but a christian, hell awaits you. As in the end of the movie when the young girl approaches a few individuals and asks if they think they will go to heaven, they respond "yes." She walks away surprised, having initially thought they were muslim. This concerns me. It makes me conjure up theoretical scenarios whereby the congregation featured is approached by jesus. Jesus would enter stageleft and say, "Hey everybody, I've been observing all the work you've been doing and well it looks great." Followed by an ecstatic response from the congregation, "Thanks Jesus, we've tried to live by your word." Jesus replies "Well, about that, it seems you've been teaching that all religions except those which believe in me are incorrect paths to the lord and that they will be damned for all eternity." "Yes, of course, we teach as we have read". Then of course Jesus responds with "I see, well, those rules were written a pretty long time ago, in a completely different language, don't you think its possible that god was testing your tolerance, maybe you did not consider god's faith. Perhaps god believes in all paths to him as long as the individual is a proponent of peace, or even if one may not believe in him at all. If god made man to have free thought, do you really think he would punish them for not having faith? It would be like god punishing people with cancer for using chemotherapy because its not "natural"".
That would be a truly interesting conversation to witness. If Jesus returns, I really hope he tells the christians to lighten up and say "Hey theres nothing wrong with being muslim or Jewish, I'm Jewish if you forgot."
I never really liked roaches.
Am i the only one that thinks that there are breeding extremeist? So many time on there i saw them talk about how the HAD to come to controol the government. It scares me to think that there are people that are going to put that much effort into telling my children what the should and should not think. If i wanted people like that controoling my kids I would take them to Iraq. This is why I keep my kids out of church, its just like she said( the fat chick) the church wants to pull them in and tell them what to think before they get the chance to figure it out for them selves. Msakes me sick. Furthermore, am i the only one that sees HUGE fundimental flaws in the argument with creation VS eveloution. 1. Creationism is NOT by anymeans the only possible explination for the creation of mankind.( as a matter of fact the "intelligent desighn" theory which any person with an education can tell was based strongly off creationsm was thrown out of the scientific study in 2005 for its lack of evidence). 2.It is not ok (by law) to teach student "intelligent design" as a scientific curriculum (IAW the 10th Amendment "Powers not delegated the US by the Constitution, nor prohibited by the states are reserved to the states respectivley , or to the people." that means we have to vote on it no tthat the church gets to say what to teach.) Thats just off the top of my head Im sure i can find more if i look.
I have to say that people like these are the biggest problem with the country. What makes america the contry that we are is that we can make our own desicions and the church cant tell us what we have to think.
But who knows maybe there right, after all you know what they say " this is the 21st century and we need to act like its the 14th"
Althought this documentary sounds scary the way that is made, the things that are said, it doesn't scare me much. I believe American people have a lot of reson too that will not let the society deteriorate to extreems. Some of these children will grow up to understand the abuse they were going trough. Some would be the next prechers. But those choosing religion will be less and less. No miracle generation for Christianity in the ear of internet. However, I would not take th same stand for islam. It is far more dangerous in the times we are living considering abuse of children and difficulty to realise it afterwards bcause it is deeply culturaly involved in the lives of many livingin rural societies arounf the world.
"Evangelist". Translation - Evil Angel List.
I wanna punch that lady, right in her fucl<ing face.
Hypnotismic (my conjugation) principles were clearly at play during the opening ceremony.
Listen as she speaks between the background melody, notice the child audience mold into a suggestive state.
That's right. Hypnotism!
I`m getting extremely worried when I watch this. These kids are brainwashed. It`s no different from the Taliban schools who teach boys to fight people who belong to other religions.
And the attitude towards global warming?? Alarming. Absolutely crazy.
@Randy
Absolutely Randy,
The Founding Fathers' wanted (if i may paraphrase)a country where people could have the liberty to THINK-WORK-CREATE, not PRAY-WAIT-DESTROY.
The greatest trick the devil ever played was making people believe he didn't exist.
This is a form of lobotomy - a(n) surgical (ideological) interruption of nerve tracts to and from the frontal lobe of the brain; often results in marked cognitive and personality changes.
Watch the "Pharmacratic Inquisition", it's on this site.
"Pray over the seats". wtfQ
God don't give a fucl< about no god damned seats.
This is blood pressure raising, is what this is.
It would be harmless, except that these people are being groomed to hold the trigger on the biggest gun in the world, (the American Military).
I am an American, and it frightens me. We need to follow our Founding Fathers' writings and disregard all disparate (sp?) gods.
That is the only sane and logical way to go through life... is it not?
Ho Lee Fucl<. This is.....I don't know what this is.
@Billy Joe Bob
There are tears of laughter coursing down my cheeks from your statement.
Also, there was spewing of tea upon reading it...
"Uncle Daddy..." I haven't heard that term since I was held captive in North Carolina...
Frickin' in-bred hicks..
@A. T.
Beautiful. Yes, absolutely.
Think - Work - Create.
That's my Trinity.
My Uncle Daddy says he's gonna send my dumb a$$ to Jesus FucI<in Camp. Momma says the only thing missin is Rifle training for when we need to kill the zombie Jews and muslims on judgment day.
Ok really what the f@#$. All of this is mostly b@##$%&*. You had a Christ camp at devils lake for Christ sake. like really this is just a bunch of b@##$%&*. i mean why the f@#$ would you have bush on this s@#$%& a@# alter.
He was the worst president ever to inhabit our world. what good has he done when he was in office, all he did was b@#$% and moan about his work. and his reaction to when the twin towers fell. he did not show any emotion just sat there and just shoved it off like it was a chip on his shoulder. like it was nothing to worry about. and i consider this c@#$ brainwash!! we are taking our kids to a camp that tells them that you will be shunned and rejected by life if you dont take jesus in your life. the radio guy was the only one making sense on all of them little movies. all you guys care about is some false image that dont exist.
you have no proof of your "god". not one single shred of proof. this the biggest mistake of your life. and how your religion doesn't cause war? what do you call crusades? they are religious wars and people died. and guess what they still happen!! what you are doing is wrong it causes these kids to mature early and that is not good. if they dont want to follow the path of "god" then they shouldn't have to!i dont care what the parents have to say its not there future, they chose their paths let their kids take their own. i can understand leading them through drugs and stuff. but really? religion? why? i mean im not totally against religion but what you guys are doing is really ignorant.
it was really cute how you compared you guys to the suicide bombers who promise 72 virgins if they kill themselves. that is what you guys are doing just take away the violence "for now". when they grow up and take it more seriously than they already do. and from the looks of it its not going to end well. what if you guys cause another crusade? what will you do? take no blame for it? disown them? whats the point? its not like what ever you say could of fixed it anyways. so im just going to end this comment. but im just going to say. they have their own opinions. why cant they lead their own path?
I went to a Christian school when I was 8 úntil I turned 13. I must say that it was a very disturbing time of my life. Luckily we moved and I went to a normal high school. For a long time I didn't want to even hear about God or anything related as I was so horrified by the experiences I went through as a kid. Now as I've got older my relationship with God has improved and I can say that I believe in God and am not shame of it. I understand now that this school I went to, altough said to be a Christian school, was everything else but Christian. I remember the people there being the most judging, evil, deceitful and hypocritical people I've ever met in my life. I do not believe that God wants us to treat others in that way. I'm glad I could escape that horrible almost cult-like school, but I'm sad for those who are still living in that oblivion.
lol,
if that child had approached me in the bowling centre and started preaching her rubbish I would have told her:
My god, says your god is a wimp. My god carries a Large hammer. My god is 4000yrs older than your god. My god has a father by the name of Odin and a brother called Loki. My gods will beat your god any day of the week.
i love the part where the mum is teachin her son that science is wrong and doesn't work and doesn't have any answers and then goes and turns on her radio, opens her fridge send the kid back to the tv...... lol i'm pretty sure her faith didn't provide those.
People fail to understand that religious extremists can exist in any religion, not just in the Muslim faith (contrary to popular belief). It is disturbing to watch these people brain wash their children into fulfilling their own political agenda under the guise of religious enlightenment. Children have fragile minds and the values we instill in them last well into their adult years, whether or not the children, themselves, realize it (i.e. abused children are more likely to become abusers in adulthood.)
And if they are claiming that “terrorists” are focusing on the upbringing of their own children to wage a religious war with America, then is not a terrorist tactic to also do the same to America’s children? I’m just saying… I mean, you can’t exactly judge those whose beliefs and practices you criticize, when you are guilty of doing the very same thing. That, my friends, is text-book hypocrisy.
And in general, I just have a problem with those too involved with their own religious beliefs to the point where intuition and logic become out of practice, and dare I say it, unused functions of the mind.
Fundamentalists do not seem to be able to keep the greatest commandment. They just do not seem to be able to use their minds.
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
Jesus replied, "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and
with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and
greatest commandment. And the second is like it: Love your neighbour
as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two
commandments."
love the rat tail!
This makes me so sad. This Evangelical brainwashing makes kids believe they are powerless unless they surrender to God; they are worth nothing without Jesus. It makes them intolerable to other religions, and therefore alienates them all from the world. I firmly believe that children should be taught of all religions, and allow them to make an informed decision about what THEY believe on their own. I am thankful everyday that I grew up in an open-minded family and attended a progressive public school that allowed me to learn and make my own life choices as to what I can believe.
Like the woman says, 1/3 of the world's population are children under the age of 15. They are the future, which is exactly why brainwashing them into an unrealistic corrupt religion (if I can even call it religion, it shows more similarities to a cult). These children need to be taught about all religions, about global warming, about tolerance and peace- not this BS that's being forced upon them.
Wow. I was indoctrinated as a child (4-18 yrs.) & I'm amazed that this still goes on. I'm amazed Americans still believe in this bible bull****. The idea of brainwashing children, taking away their ability to think for themselves before they can even learn to use it, telling them they are nothing special, except that "God has chosen [you]." Be a social outcast and a religious zealout; why? To wake up only to realize that "you've been deceived," not by the "devil," but by a man, who wants you to grow up, get married, have lots of children so that they will grow up in the church...all of them donating 10-20% of their GROSS income to God (the physical church!). It's a money making machine and it sets this fat heiffer on a pedestal. Without God, she's just another fatass. But with her God, she's messiah's messenger...the faith of the generation depends upon her delusional sense of self-importance and contrived wisdom.
I have to say I'm thankful that I was able to see through the b.s. I'm not a "chicken little" or a "sheep." It's so sick that they can foster these anti-developmental teachings, only to stunt the growth of each generation, dumb them down, and make them "christ's soldiers." It's all lies, deceit, and a major setback for those who might one day wake up and see through the b.s.
good gave me the freedom to "toot it & boot it"
all of these adults pretending to know what they don't, they are corrupting the youth. Look how unhappy it is making them, they are truly being robbed of their innocence. It is disgusting.
haha I loved that quote as well Billton! this is definitely worth a watch, funny, sad, disturbing all in one!
"Warlocks are enemies of god" "Harry Potter would of been put to Death "
Bwahahaha, what an insane bitch
Jesus is my personal genie. My god can beat up your god. So.. there.
I am horrified at this, I just ... horrified. Those poor kids.
You are all absolutely SICK, and narrow minded, this is not how it is, and for sure if it is getting you politicul votes!!!! bunch of hippocrits!!!
Let's hope Becky Fischer follows the Bible's instructions. Proverbs 23:2
more entertaining than this documentary were the close to 300 passionate comments left by watchers.
definitely well spent 2+ hours of life, a good watch and read.
i almost feel bad about the emotional impact this film must have had on those individuals featured ...
As a Muslim, I was never told as a kid to be ready to be in the army of Allah or Mohamed. God was never mentioned in the science class and this was in a Muslim Arab country (Morocco). In Islamic theology, you aren't considered a Muslim until you reach the age of puberty.
That woman who mentioned kids in Palestine and elsewhere misses the point. In war zones, kids as well as adults are encouraged to fight and religion, ideology, race etc etc are used as the fuel. She has no idea what's going on in Palestine. Israeli kids are indoctrinated the same way the Palestinian kids are (BUT progressive parents on both sides have no interest in sending their kids to the army of God. They'd rather send their kids to the army of PEACE). The gods of the Middle East are jealous, genocidal, ego-maniacal and f--king blood thirsty, thus, it is a challenge for their followers to be different from them...
It is unbelievable that this is happening in USA. What has happened to rationalism, critical thinking and scientific inquiry up there? I totally agree with labeling what's going in the camp as child abuse. Those kids are asked to repent? Are you kidding me? They can barely locate their dicks and pussies and they are asked to repent???!!!! No wonder that many atheists say that they were brought up in religious families. These kids will be shaken when they are in their 20s...when they face the hard fact that God has no f--king time to answer their prayers!
A new enlightenment age is badly needed to save the world from this religious horse manure. People can fix the world and if there is anything that God needs to fix it is his own religions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam).
Spirituality when chosen by an adult it makes sense one way or another but it must be criticized when it becomes a tool for recruitment...keep religion to yourself and regulate or eliminate capitalism and the world will be just FINE...
Peace!
That little girl Rachel is a maniac in the making.
I'm not a violent person, but I would not be sad if this lady, died.
As Ron said
"Stupid inbreds. Brain washing children! No wonder aliens do not want to visit this backward planet! I would not either!"
My thoughts too my friend.
Wow. I have to say that I didn't think I'd be surprised by watching this some 8 years after the election and end of Bush's administration. I think the very interesting thing isn't that these people are indoctrinating their children. The pastor lady really hit the nail on the head when she said that all cultures and religions are indoctrinating their children so why shouldn't they? But the problem I see here is essentially two fold.
First, these people go on and on about 'spiritual war', 'God's Army' and being 'soldiers for god', etc. Granted, it's a metaphor, but it's a very fine line that almost doesn't exist by default when you talk about such things in the realm of religion and God's will. What they don't tell these kids is that God is nowhere near Americans or Muslims or anybody when they go to war. They don't tell these kids that there's no freedom or justice or Godliness in war, only limbs being blown off and guts hanging out and evil, selfish and unholy debasement of your fellow man. Sounds a lot like something that that one guy they were really afraid of...what's his name?...Oh yeah! SATAN! Sounds like something he'd love to take part in.
The second fundamental thing I see here, which is probably more of a detriment to their own belief is the empty rhetoric of God's power over earthly things while truly emphasizing a pretty materialistic and worldly agenda. For instance, I found it heartbreaking when that little girl prayed and BELIEVED that God would strike those pins down for her but instead she threw a gutter ball. Someone (we obviously know who) taught her those things. They taught her that God doesn't have anything to do in the Middle East or in Washington stopping those evil abortionists but that he is in the Bible Belt, at this little girl's bowling session, giving two shits about whether she bowls a strike or not. I say it's detrimental to her faith because doubt is VERY strong when put up against faith and it starts with the smallest most insignificant thing. That little girl is eventually going to get older and look back on that and ask, "Where was God? Why didn't he do that thing for me? What else has he ignored that I've asked him to do?" Beyond all that though, the worldliness of their agenda seems to stress the fact that they need to dance and shout and speak in tongues and pass out Bibles and ask people where they think their gonna go when they die while neglecting the most basic tenants of the ministry of Christ. Good works, charity, how you treat the least of your fellow man. Also, I thought religion is about how you live YOUR life not worrying about what someone else is doing? What pride, where's the humility before God?
But, I suppose that we don't really have to be that scared. I mean, they (and pretty much everyone in this country by now) have attributed 8 years worth of Bush policy to these people. I mean he put his religion so far out front and said "I'm this and I'm that" that I think, in effect, he has tarnished his own faith in the eyes of most non-Christians and non-Evangelicals. I mean, I think we can all thank them, personally, for the Patriot Act, thousands and thousands of dead civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan, the flower of our nation's youth returning without eyes and arms and legs and their humanity, billions and billions in wasted tax payer money, and the list goes on. They had their time in power with their scandalous and wicked tongues at the ear of the most powerful man in the "free world" and look what they dragged us, as a nation into and look at all they did when essentially given the will behind the reins of power; nothing but more of the same old. And look at what became of Ted Haggard. Hypocrisy can be denied but it's generally more vindicating than ANYTHING you can say after you've been exposed for what and who you truly are. So, 25% of the American electorate or not (which is probably pretty much a bullshit figure) I think the other 75% of us have seen them weighed, measured and found wanting and we'll see if they ever get the chance they had again or for a very long time.
I'd just like to say I have the utmost pity for those people. They're not EVIL but the road to hell is definitely paved in good intentions.
Humans are all completely disgusting filthy creatures......and this documentary proves it....full of hypocrits.....but still a very entertaining and informative documentary about how horrible humans are! great job!
How disturbing!
how unsettling! that is shocking!
Nothing leaves such a bad taste in my mouth like the sanctimonious, self righteous, ridiculously OVERZEALOUS Jesus freaks of the world. They all think they have the inside track to God's will when the truth is that NOBODY really knows what God is thinking. I just hope some of those kids are smart enough to seek out their own truth and not submit to the nonstop daily programming (and they are being programmed) they are subjected to.
"It's the only possible answer to all the questions."
"That's what dad said!"
Of course that's what your father said.
Religion makes me sad and leaves me feeling helpless but with all this crazy nuts believing in RADICAL ideas, it's no wonder. Yet they recruit more and more people ever day...
Well, you know what they say:One's born every minute.
Religion is wonderful, but cults and brainwashing aren't. I was watching with a straight face until that lady was like: "Warlocks are enemies of God!" What crack is she on? Harry Potter isn't REAL. Harry Potter is a character in a fictitious book written by a woman with a wonderful imagination.
Anyways, this documentary made me cry. They aren't teaching God and Christianity. They are teaching hatred towards those who are different and have different views and using God's name to do it. These poor children don't even realize that the adults are taking advantage of them in order to use them for greed and sin. Not for God.
These people should be locked up.
good movie. makes me want to cut off the land below the masondixon line and cast it out into the atlantic ocean, but good move ;)
I guess I'm burning in hell because I wasn't as blessed as these children to be going to a jesus camp, but then again many children in africa suffer from dehydration and hunger, where is God at!? to help all the hungry poor children dying in third world countries. seriously in america you are spoiled, you have all your commericialism and religious beliefs and churchs, yet that money isn't being used properly.
AND YOU THOUGHT THE BOOGIE MAN WAS SCARY! I'm more scared of Jesus getting me than the boogie man after watching this film. I Didn't know this kinda stuff was going on. Isn't one of the rules of our nation Separate Church and State, seems to me that these people are dead set against that. What I got out of this whole thing was you become one of us or else. And I don't like what that "or else" might be. I'm not anything, unless "kindness" is a religion. I just try to get along with everyone. If your against abortion, don't have one. And the whole thing that this rock we live on is on about 6000 yrs old, well pretty damn hard to stand by that statement when there is bones being dug up, and some fossil laying around pretty much everywhere. I do tend to believe scientists when it comes to that department. Along with global warming, okay maybe for arguments sake on the speed of it, one guy says slower one guy says faster, but to flat out deny it? Even the faster slower arguers are not denying that it's happening. But what overwhelmed me the most was that woman, was she not saying "brainwashing is much, much easier when they are young" I know she called it "teaching" now that was scary to me. Make them believe by any means possible, guess that throws the word choice out the window.
The Lords Resistance Army in Africa kidnaps children to indoctrinate and train them for war and murder in the name of God. This woman would want the same thing apparently. Its truly a sad film but one that everyone should watch. There are radical and extremists in all religions.
How ironic is it that the ones who are 'pro life' should've had an abortion themselves. no fundamentalist should be allowed to have kids.
this gave me goosebumps...it's really heartbreaking to see these kids lose their innocence because of indoctrination by fundamentalists!
That is one sicko lady. Why in the world would you compare teaching children about Christ like teaching children in Islam about suicide bombing. Not once did i hear about "love". Wasn't Christ's way about loving, but not condemning? This whole documentary is no different than "The Cult of the Suicide Bomber." We are not to "train" out children. All this video talks about is training our children this, training our children that. They're not going to Islam. They are not suicide bombers. They are not soldiers to fight. They are children, the last of innocence now tainted with dumb ideas that this video supports.
I agree with many of the comments here, this is hard to see for me.
Here is something i found as i researched this documentary:
["Papantonio questions Fischer's motives for focusing her ministry efforts on children. Fischer explains that she does not believe that people have the freedom to choose their belief system once they pass childhood, and that it is important that they be immersed in evangelical Christian values from a young age. Fischer also explains that democracy is flawed "because we have to give everyone equal freedom."]
This just makes me clench my fist.
heartbreaking to see children lose their childhood like that, in my opinion it is childabuse and why aren´t these camps stopped, when she went on about Harry Potter being evil my heart sank as the childrens imaginations were sucked out of them, they all had blank saddened eyes, i´m too angry to comment on that woman.
heartbreaking to see children lose their childhood like that, in my opinion it is child abuse and why aren´t these camps stopped, when she went on about Harry Potter being evil my heart sank as the childrens imaginations were sucked out of them, they all had blank saddened eyes, i´m too angry to comment on that woman.
@charles B the woman stopped the program after the show because IT IS CHILD ABUSE.
you are a disgusting person for encouraging the psychological abuse of children.
i only hope your children are smart enough to see you are a nut.
I STILL think this is a great program. wish I were there to be a conselor at Jesus Camp . . . . along with my wife and kids!!! Thank you very much. Seemed like fantastic kids to me. Hope mine grow up to be as well behaved and passionate about their love for God as the ones featured here (the main ones).
God bless you, Miss Fischer, and keep up the good work.
I love Part 5. Our favorite characters take quite a s*** on. She says something along the lines of, "we don't install political beliefs in the children" and immediately it shows them discussing abortion. haha. Best Part.
This did a great job of showing what kind of fears are put onto us as children. I still remember the fear I had, knowing I did not believe in any of it but still making up the lies in my head, somehow trying to convince myself I believed in Jesus and anyone who didn't was to burn for eternity. I just didn't think all of those people going to "hell" was very loving.
i think christians are the easiest people to call hypocrits just because theyre trying to keep people from sinning but everyone sins so its not like they can really help it, obviously its not something they want to do but its human nature to sin so it just seems like theyre being hypocrits
Actually yes Solomon.
What essentially Jesus Camp is about is child abuse. And as a retired police officer I can say that I would definitely have "blown my whistle" arrested these sickos and bring them to justice. But then I`m a Brit and things work that way over here.
BTW police have new fangled radios now and compuderrs!
Well oh well,,, we have a programmer at hand other than the lady in the film…. and one really approved and supports them but not knowing what and where it will guide us into.
Is there any Police force around? I’d rather listen to them about what is going on, than from people who rants about life and other religion activities. I love to hear Police whistles guiding traffic for our own sakes.
@ Big Dipper:
Very well written!
Very well said!
Thoughts on the film.
The woman is actually retarded and quite disturbed. It is obvious to the observer that she is angry at herself over the guilt she feels deep down inside, that she herself does not actually believe in her heart, despite terrorizing herself during that process. She believes in God only to the point that it is the only thing, in her reality, that connects her to her own family, and stops her from becoming an "outsider". I can really see that sub consciously she can't find it in herself to believe, despite having dedicated a life to trying to achieve that end. Her desperate rants are clear attempts to persuade no-one else other than herself. She is extremely irritated that she can't find any peace with it. She is freaked out by the muslims because they look like they really really do believe. It frustrates her, and threatens her own existence of fanatical perpetual persuasion, a compromise she has become comfortable with.
You can clearly hear it in her voice when she shouts "God, we will do will whatever it is you want us to do". The frustration in that sentence is very apparent. It is frustration with her own soul. She feels that recruiting the kids will somehow make it better, but deep down she knows it will change nothing. And she doesn't want to face that. Which is why she is so angry and full of hate to those who have found peace in their lives away from a supernatural god. The comparison with Manson is obvious. The death of these children is her political goal, and not those of the individual children.
And then that boy, learning to be a preacher. His words are "I really feel it, I mean, I really do, I really really really do feel him." These are not the words of peace and understanding, but panic and fear. Almost pleading. And then the old guy, who speaks to Levi. He says "God knew you, before you were born. Extra ordinary". Even he admits it is beyond belief. If God is so obvious and natural, then it wouldn't be extraordinary. It would be logical.
But she is definitely borderline retarded. And possibly traumatized somewhere along the line. She is too addicted to winning peer approval, and has lost sense of her own reasoning. She does not belong to God, but emotionally she does belong to someone else.
Essentially, what fundamental Christianity does in this film is demonstrate its arrogance and intolerance to the world, as well as it's paranoid insecurity. Educated and balanced people know that God's existence is impossible to prove, by definition. For then what would be want the need for faith? It therefore is a private matter between the individual and the soul, and not a matter for coerced indoctrination.
And on a matter principle. These people say they are willing to die for God as a sacrifice. But to my knowledge, they are still there. I think it is extremely arrogant to try and bribe God, and then not turn up with goodies. They have pledged their life, but they are still alive. That would conclude that this promise was just hot air, and is a clue to their mental stability at the time of pledging their own deaths to God.
The devil really features big in the neighborhoods of these people. They seem to be running away from a dark side much more than I am, or any of my friends. It is ironic that nearly all of their distainful descriptions of outsiders seem to be descriptions of themselves.
They keep maintaining that "Tonight is the night", or "Today is where it all starts". They always seem to be restarting the program. They seem to not see much success in their own group. Today will always be the day when it starts.
The little girl screaming "no more Lord, no more", when talking about abortion, is evidently blaming God. She seems to think he has the power to stop this, but chooses not to.
This is definitely brain washing. It is definitely damaging to the children's rights to be a full and free individual of their own choosing. These children are looking for nothing more than approval of their peers. Like all other children do. It is really selfish and uncaring parenting. They see their children as an extension of themselves, and not free independent individuals in their own right. Shameful.
Her final words demonstrate that she feels she has the right to speak for others, when she clearly only speaks for herself. I would anticipate that if she really did believe in God, then she would be a lot less vocal in her inner anger. People who think they speak for others are narcissistic, dictatorial, and generally uneducated in world issues. As a typical evangelist, she is very keen to tell people what she believes, but is not so generous with her time when it comes to listening about their beliefs. She is a sad woman. It is so sad that people with such vivacity get caught up in a life of non meaning drivel. No wonder they become so irrational and extreme. The adults really do not seem like happy people.
7.53, episode 7/9. Listen to father Ted feel really threatened by a 10 year old. He has no praise of encouragement. He just feels defensive and threatened. What a deceitful dishonest deceiving little maggot on societies ass that man really is.
Finally - Where is Father Ted Haggard? He is on the run from the press for wasting most of his life spending most of his money with junk up his nose, and a cock in his ass. Gay prostitutes and a bag of meth was his congregation. Harry Potter would have been put to death if he was in the old testament, but Father Ted would have met a grisly demise too.
That concludes the argument for the prosecution.
If this was the UK, she's be jailed.
Well, it was made for those people who can afford it. That is science. :o)
'science doesnt proove anything' yet there is electricity, planes, cars, tv... oh wait god made them, doh?!
I see no difference between this woman (the one leading and teaching the kids) and Charles Manson (assuming that he actually did give the orders to murder those poor people)... Actually I find her to be more repulsive, for she is manipulating inocent, unknowing children, while Manson was manipulating people who could think for themselves...
This is absolutely horrific!She is actually turning them into little brainwashed soldiers... And all that in the name of GOD! Does nobody remember that one of the commandments that God gave you is thou shall not kill, yet this woman blatantly says that she would like those kids to be more like their Muslim peers who eventually blow themselves up and injure hundreds of people!!! WTF people!!!
I feel bad for Harry Potter. He's a nice guy, keeps to himself yet she wants to mess with him. I mean, I never saw him take on voldemort with voodoo dolls or a ouija board. He never lit black candles or used powdered bones to destroy dark wizards. I guess Magic the gathering is pretty pissed right now because she is gonna start saying that they produce tarot cards. She should be teaching the kids about forgiveness and kindness, not "This is war". I mean, who takes their kids to a place to get brain damage. If you pledge alliagence to the bible and make kids do it, you will be more punished than Harry Potter for doing magic. Poor Harry.
If you start taking it to extreme and do harm to human beings, whick is what this will come to eventually, you are going to cause those kids post traumatic stress disorder, something that american soldiers truly have to go through every day of their lifes. Making soldiers is not a joke. You could screw up people for the rest of their time here on earth.
I feel sorry for this woman too. This is a woman that was a huge harry potter fan and when she asked harry for his aughtograph and harry said screw u she went tottaly besherk.
Trying to compete with Al- Quaida is not the answer either.
P.S. I read all 7 books of the Harry Potter series and they were awesome! I'm not a voodoo priest.
Did you fail the personality test?
It is more of a closed society to me...
just explain to me about the dinosaurs
This scientology thing is super creepy isn't it?
Chrisian
lol.... Yeah though, just like King David... In his misery, he seek the Lord. Imagine a thousand kills... All I know about thousand kills are in e-games or in the World of Warcraft! lol
Achem said: "I do believe that they know this deep down, is why they try to convert people at all times, more justification, and safety in numbers!"
You left out the main reason....misery loves company!!!
Christians prayed a lot because there are losers out there... and if you have the urges to find out who, read the Bible!
Predators and emotional vampires the lot of em.
The doctrine you are referring to is "Spread the word."
Muslims have their alternative "Go forth and multiply."
Religious people always seem to be so smug, like the cat that ate the canary.
They figure they know something that the rest of us do not.
I read somewhere that Christians are "required" to convert people into there beliefs. Fathers house? sure! They want to go back to there mommy and daddy.
They are scared and insecure, afraid to face life's reality on there own.
They do not realize that they have the power to govern and change there own lives. Instead of refering to some ancient manuscripts on how they should live.
They live in constant fear of being struck down by so-called Gods vengeance and spend eternity in their man made hell, if they even think, or do anything contrary to what the ancient manuscripts tell them.
They have no "freedom" at all, only a constant fear and gilt trip.
I do believe that they know this deep down, is why they try to convert people at all times, more justification, and safety in numbers!
Lonnie, you slimy bloody hypocrite. Have you forgotten your earlier lofty speeches in this dialogue?
"I do not come into these places to preach or to try and convert anyone, but to add another perspective to the view."
Michelle tells us her very moving story and you sickeningly preach to her with that guilt ridden conversion message.
In an earlier comment you stated that "you had lived that life" (presumably as some type of Jesus Camp). Well that's all well and good and obviously the mind control worked better on you. Michelle clearly has a much stronger and rational mind. By all means tell us about your experiences and use some of that "wisdom and discernment" you're so proud of." Who are you to tell anyone what faith to believe. You cant even tell us why you chose yours.
Michelle thank you for your moving testimony. I truly hope the scars heal and you realise how much of a stronger person you are because of your experiences.
Whom do you prefer to have, the sick who was healed or the one who are getting sick?... As it is, i don't believe in miracles, I only believed on restorations.
So you had a bad religious experience with some people that maybe weren't quite on the message and you are using that to justify becoming an atheist? Quite a fall there... I think you know better in your heart, don't let people turn you away from your Father's house make it be about your personal relationship with your creator, not what some misguided person or persons have done. Why let them steal your inheritance? You are smarter than that.:-)
wow. brings back the memories. i was homeschooled and "taught" the creation b.s. . went to the camps. was forced into speaking in tongues, although i thought it was ridiculous. just sat here and cried a little , seeing those kids, who are made to feel worthless , because they like harry potter. the bullying and manipulation by these adults fills me with disgust. it's selfish to use kids as pawns. would christ have done that? such a lack of compassion from the authority figures. when the young blonde boy confessed to not believing in god, you could just see the judgmental eyes on him! it's unsettling to think intolerance is encouraged in our churches. jesus hung out with prostitutes, and touched lepers. would these same folks really want to be around jesus if he came into their church? the only thing i have to thank the pentecostal church for, is its glaring hypocrisy showing me the way to agnosticism . how did christianity come so far? when i think of jesus, i see a man full of love and life, a guru, and a healer of the mind. where does george bush jr. fit into this? here's a bible verse: "train a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he will not depart from it." - news flash- the religious fervor fades. it's the damage which remains. that is what they don't depart from. the lack of self worth, and also a self loathing which takes a lifetime to erase, as a result of being told you're nothing - without god. or, being told you're a filthy condemned sinner who's going to hell - when you're six years old!
Nice one achems. I presume there may be a Quran version out there too. I`ve tried to point out some of it's absurdities on the privileged planet doc to "1400 years" but he ignores me and quotes clever people with theology phds.
Wow!Ted Haggard was one messed up dude.Talk about suppressed rage.And what is this obsession with Muslims.Name one Muslim country that could mount any type of assault on the continental US.God does have a place for people that mess up kids and another special place for people who start wars in his name.How people can be so blind to the blatant evil that was the Bush administration is beyond me.The guy was like cartoon evil.
@Achem, I'm not hiding my identity or my nationality...
@Reb, my only dilemma is missing some words in my sentences... the most critical is on where I am on my sentences... I mean if I am in my own self or with someones else view...
Anyway, it is not my fantasy to be Torok, I am asking it since some of you have been fantasizing about it as me... what I said is, I am content with Crusaders... and this is the content of my post.
Thanks for the documents, Vlatko, Happy New Year....
Solomon, if Torok is your fantasy, go for it. Just watch the sentence stucture a bit more...we will help. Happy New Year and our neighbors are putting on quite a fire works show too.
Solomon:
You could have told us you are Filipino, in the Philippines.
There is nothing wrong with that.
You gave it away by stating that Manny Pacquiao, the welter weight boxing champ is your neighbor.
Anyway, should I change my name Torok? He is a troll King anyway... Hehehehehehe... But would rather have some rest with the Crusaders...
It's 10:20 am here right now... We have a good new year celebration. With a lot of firecrackers and fireworks blazing in the sky, compliments from my neighbor, Great Boxing Champ Manny Pacquiao!
It's still 6.5 hours until the new year for me, but Happy New Year to everyone anyway! And I mean everyone!
Happy New Year and remember, we are all in this together even when we don't agree on everything. Perhaps I will begin the new year with a kinder gentler me...naw. lol
Vlatko, thanks for this site. The work you have done by getting all these docs is mind boggling. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks my friends. All the best to everyone in 2010.
It is 7:10 p.m. here. But.
Happy New Year.
Vlatko.
Reb.
yavanna.
tim.
and everyone else.
Oh-yeh. even Solomon.
And 1400 Years, that I was just talking to on The Privileged Planet.
You're alive! we were worrying!
I think Solomon is a drunk Yoda.... oh no wait that's Eric.... Happy new year peeps 00.11 here. Lets hope this one is better and the chem-trails are less.
Ah yes, the rapture...another issue the christian world is in conflict over. It will be pre-trib, no! it will be mid-trib, everyone knows it will be post-trib. Kinda like, do you like your baptism with a full dunking or a light sprinkling? The diversity among the believers is endless. Instead of 'build a bear' they should open a 'build a doctrine' boutique. Let me see now, I'll have a few slain in the spirits with just a couple of drunk in the spirits. I think I'll pass on the tongue talking. I also prefer the health and wealth doctrine that is now the rage. Sure beats the hell out of suffering in the here and now in hopes of goodies up yonder.
Tim, the rapture index shows how pitiful religion truly is. Yes, all these things have happened throughout history over and over. People don't read and they sure don't know history. I imagine the victims of Hitler and his monstrous crew thought the end was at hand and who could blame them? The church has to keep people in fear to get their money. Religion has always been about control by fear and it still works.
Yep, the rapture is coming and troll Sol will be driving the get away cloud.
I really hope Solomon isn't a drunk troll. Those things are extremely dangerous. Hide your cattle.
That rapture index is hilarious. Don't most of those things happen all the time in every era anyway? Will people EVER give up on crying "The end is nigh!"?
Reb:
Do not know if he is a drunk, now that you mention it, might be.
Yes, a troll is bad enough, but a drunk troll!(LOL)
You mentioned the Rapture, if anything, probably Alien's coming to fulfill the prophecies.
That even makes more sense than religions.
Achem, I believe Sol is a troll. Either that or a drunk, or a drunk troll. How in the hell do you read that mess more than once? Some things are better passed by and left alone unless you are a glutton for punishment. Several people have alerted him to the fact that his comments make no sense yet he gets worse than ever. If this is his way of seeking attention he can have at it but I will not participate.
What ever you say, Solomon.
=(Achems Razor
December 31st, 2009 at 23:20
Solomon:
Why do I always have to read your threads 3 or 4 times, and still never understand what it is you have said.
Gives me a headache.)=
I Hate this but “dogs eat dogs theory” will suffice on this. The line of mentality thing to believed or the free flow of thought upon the subject matter would get entangled with such vicious scheme of denials…
Hah-hah-hah-hah.... LOL
That was a joke, right? LOL
Solomon:
Why do I always have to read your threads 3 or 4 times, and still never understand what it is you have said.
Gives me a headache.
I Hate this but "dogs eat dogs theory" will suffice on this. The line of mentality thing to believed or the free flow of thought upon the subject matter would get entangled with such vicious scheme of denials...
From Wikipedia: A religion is a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a supernatural agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
So, with just this although there are among other definitions... and of getting out of its reality upon us, is denying the past. One could exist without recalling their past but what is 'the future' in your children mentality if you teach them that you are only responsible for yourself and of your own actions. Everything happens as it happens. You don't owe it to anyone or anybody else. Just be glad that it was so... and no one else to blame or to praise of your own reality of concern. Nobody or no one would be responsible of them being them as they would be to whatever they would be. It is the reality of living the practicality of ones life on their mere existence.
It may sound out of context for this trend or thread but it was so in defense to the religious upbringing. My only concern is the teaching of the leadership in this 'film' that is in our scrutiny.
yavanna, I know about the logo and have read all of Clays work and heard his interviews. I am well past the point of giving a flying sh*t if someone thinks I am a conspiracy nut or not. When the FOIA released documents proving how long our government has ordered chemical and biological tests on unsuspecting Americans without their knowledge or consent, well, that was the day I decided our government was now being run by imposters and killers. Also, the release of the mind control documents ie, MKultra, Project Artichoke, Project Bluebird etc. is almost mind numbing. Even tiny children were used in these nazi style experiments and had their entire lives destroyed and this is American, the land of the free?? Our government knew exactly what they were doing and what they wanted when they used Project Paperclip to smuggle the Nazi scientist to this country. We have monsters in this government who make the nazi's pale in comparison. The entire Bush clan hails from Nazi roots by the way of Prescott Bush. It is almost unbelievable how so many people prefer to live in a la la world and pretend all is well or that jayzuz is going to take care of everything. As it usually is, the very few will bear the burden of the battle while these cowardly fools keep following the herd right to the slaughter.
Yes Reb I wasn't discounting that Rik was probably silenced and quite possibly he had stumbled on something. I think it was him that first noticed that logod in the 2008 Olympics could be rearranged into the word Zion, As can that of the 2012 logo.
Google secret Olympic logo.
yavanna, yes Rik Clay could be a bit 'out there' but his sudden death at such a young age was a real shocker. I truly believe he had stumbled onto something by accident and was possibly permanently silenced. That would not be a shocker.
As for the mind control article, most if not all 'christians' would read it and apply it to everyone but themselves or their particular church. I think it was Thomas Paine who wrote "trying to give knowledge to those who have closed their ability to reason is like giving medicine to the dead". That is probably a paraphrase but the very essence of what he meant. When people choose blindness and ignorance that becomes a way of life.
Tim, we know from past experience and reports obtained via the FOIA that high tech gadgets and weaponry we know about has been in existence for many years before it was known by the masses. The level of extreme high quaility of holograms is just being made known to the people and researching what Japan has already achieved in that field in a mighty interesting read. We know what we are told and when the powers that be decide they want us to know. There are people that still have no idea what HAARP is or how deadly it can be as a weapon. That was one of Tesla's ideas that governments are using for destruction instead of the good he intended. Tesla is also the man who read the instructions from god to moses as to how to build the first ark. He knew immediately it was a death machine and not a box to haul yahwehs' ass around in. It also functioned as an electric communication device. That is the reason the pharoah was chasing after moses and his band of thugs, they had stolen the ark that is shown numerous times on pyramid walls. It has long been thought that the great pyramid of Giza was used as some sort of communication base and most likely the ark is the missing capstone insert. One of the NASA engineers got his idea for the legs of the lunar probe from reading Ezekiels wheel in a wheel flying object. I had read about this engineer before and the History Channel featured him in a segment just a few days ago. These are tidbits the lying church leaders will never divulge. The sorry scum!
Julymorning, your first comment only just came through for some reason. Google "Obama Youth." also "Obama - Yes we can!" It is widely thought that GW was as bad as he was because then the people would accept Obama far more.
Jesus Camp is nothing compared to that scary movement.
Reb - I read the linked doc on mind control. Very enlightening, most interesting is that the only people he believes are immune are some Buddhists. I highly recommend all peeps read it. The site it's on is interesting too. Hoping there's a section on "de-programming."
I wonder if religious people having read that doc would be able to see that this has been done to them, or better still to be able to free themselves from the mind control.
WoW you've all been very busy, some great comments and discussion going on.
Welcome July, your right in everything you say (except the respecting religions bit), it is very tiring. It would be a lot easier if say there were only two or three religions, each had their instruction manual clear and set in stone so there were no misinterpretations and then the millions / billions of believers could just agree with each about something. If this were the case we could all have a rational debate instead of having to deal with the vacuous differences in belief / faith between one believer or another.
Hi Ciph3r too, some great comments.
Reb, Thanks for the link, will read it after posting this.
Those interested in Rik Clay, his last radio interview was with red-ice radio (Sweden) where he talked a lot about the 2012 olympics amongst other things. You can find Red Ice on you tube, I`m subscribed and its listed under my favourite channels on SeeUat Videos forums. I recommend you take a look. Hendrik the host (its all in english btw) interviews a huge variety of guests. Mostly "conspiracy" type stuff. Some of it is really whacky, but interesting nonetheless. Rik Clay was very animated and happy during this interview and his suicide a few weeks later is a mind boggling mystery. He goes into detail in the interview about the area the Olympics are going to be held, pointing out biblical references in the street names and so on. As I have lived and worked in the east of London and the City of London all my life I felt he was stretching his theories a great deal as most of the streets in that part of London have biblical names. Just call up a street map for the City of London and Stratford (the venue) and you will see. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to understand why Stratford was chosen. It was a wasteland of defunct Victorian industrials. Its very close to Central London and has very good mass transportation connections. And some of his references didnt seem to be well researched. For instance he excitedly claims that a nearby area is called Bethnall Green and surely that has a massive significance because it sounds like Bethlehem! The origins of Bethnall Green can easily be googled. I love conspiracy theories as much as the next man and Rik Clay was certainly a rising star in that field and very entertaining. However a lot of his stuff was borrowed from others in his field.
Solomon, I dont understand what you are saying on most of your comments. I dont know if English is your first language and I mean no disrespect by saying that, but they seem muddled, You then throw in stuff like "What is Lamb of God?"
Your main comment is however "science plus money equals atheism." I`ve known many many very poor atheists. Also there are still in this world undiscovered tribes in such places as the Amazon who have never heard of God or science or money therefore they too you would label as atheists. I dont think you really thought that sweeping remark through. If you meant that "rich people dont need God" to some extent that might be true. Most often it is the very poor who feel the need and comfort of a faith. Some are in desperate circumstances and the various religions seek out these people deliberately. However there are probably as many rich atheists as there are rich believers. Perhaps you could be more clear then we wouldnt have to use guesswork. You go on to claim that Atheists are making their children live like little adults and stealing their innocence. Is that what your favourite evangelist told you? Utter poppycock. So you watch a video about an obscure cult brainwashing children and counter with that argument? My turn for a sweeping statement. The vast majority of atheists bring up their children as CHILDREN and protect them from malignant influences. They allow them a lot of freedom within respectful limits. They allow them to formulate their own opinions and express them. And ultimately if their child decides to follow a faith they will support them in that independent view and love them just the same. Because it is through our children that we all gain "immortality." This is one reason why atheists dont beg for rapture and join death cults. All children should be treasured as they are the future and in them they pass on our genes and contribute to the success of our species. "We" do not mind control them or set them up as weapons(as per Jesus Camp or some Islamic Fundamentalists)! There are exceptions to every rule and there are probably "evil" atheists who effectively brainwash their children to their own ends. Have you actually met any atheists Solomon? I`m getting the impression you live in a very closed society.
Lonnie. Calling a spade a spade is a very common saying in England. It has no racial element here (I wasn't aware of its roots). Its basic meaning is "To speak plainly - to describe something as it really is." You then went on to illustrate that to some people a spade could be decoration which I think demonstrates some rather abstract thinking on your part. I was merely trying to emphasise my answer to your point about there being nothing as it appears. Allow me to try again. Not everything is a conspiracy theory. a stick can just be a stick, a stone is a stone and so on. There's no need to drill into everything for hidden meanings. If we all did that constantly nothing could ever be communicated. (I would have preferred a spade could also be a weapon by the way - that would have emphasised your point better.) To finish I somewhat glibly demonstrated in my last comment to you how I understood you to have chosen your particular faith system. I would be very interested in how you came to pick one over the other, for you must agree it is a fact that there so many variety of religions. If that's not too personal of course.
I`ve gone on a bit again sorry guys, would say a lot more as some of the comments are really interesting but I dont want to bore you any more.
Some interesting discussions on the forums too, and please feel free to share favourite You Tube channels with me there. Mine are listed.
People debating over this. People who are like me, who respects every religion in the world should not debate with fundamentalists christian cos they're just mad! They won't listen to anybody different from them. That's why they 're mad! There's no way to debate with them cos they've got god! these crazy people are just using the word god in order to justify whatever they say. More you argue with them, you'd feel tired. I'd better go somewhere helping poor children or donate a penny to UNICEF.
this is insane. These people probably saw OBAMA elected to the president of the united states. I wonder how they reacted ahahahaha. The scariest thing is that J W Bush believed in such a thing or at least pretend to believe them because of the election and the whole world not just America were mocked by him and his choice of religion. Thank god for ending this nonsense after 8 years. but I've never knew behind the war and all bush's christian crap, there would be this kind of madness. OMG
@Tim, Well... time will tell what I am saying here on all of you. Atheism as far as I am concern are making children live like adults and steal the innocence out of them by their kind of love for them... well, in fact it is killing them of their life that they can have with 'white lies'. Reason of all reason, the true reason will come out of them and not from anyone. Their salvation is in their own affair... which is just a beginning.
As for the film here, the real issue is the leadership and not about the doctrines that the children are having in the name of Jesus, as every one can see that every parent of the children are there to support them.
The leader are educating them of her own knowledge about God but to my recollection of her, she doesn't know anything about Jesus... or the teaching that Jesus is trying to impart to His Disciples. she is more on the King Saul and King David with the dual livelihood of King Solomon, treating them of their own beliefs...
@Reb... Christians are good as far as they see it fit for them of where they have started with Christianity that comes from Jewish Prophesy which was have been Hebrews.
Solomon... I have no idea what it is you are talking about, I am more confused with your latest post than I was by your first. As I stated before I have no intention of entering into a debate about who or what Jesus is, so I am finished with it. My only intention as I said before was to point out that the people that made this film were more than a little biased.
Yavanna my friend I never called you dumb, or stupid, or even mildly insinuated anything other than that you lack knowledge in the area this film covers(The dictionary definition of ignorant). And yes when you see a spade call it a spade, but when is a spade not a spade? This is at the heart of my point. One man's spade is another man's wall decoration, or were you referring to the suit of cards? Or perhaps the old racist comment that my ignorant fore-bearers used to refer to the people of color of that time? You see?
Just when you think something is a pat and "DONE" deal along comes another perspective you had not considered. THAT is my point. I don't care how well read or educated you think you are, compared to the being that created this ant farm we call earth neither of us are very knowledgeable; at all. I take great pains to avoid using language that infers a lack of intelligence on anyone's part. So if you felt I was calling you stupid you mistook me, I reserve that word for very, very special circumstances and I definitely would not use it in your case. Ignorant. Yes, as am I in many, many areas. Spiritually blind? If you cannot look around you and see the handiwork of the Creator all around you, well if the shoe fits... In any case I wish you well and I pray for your spiritual well being above all. Be well.
Tim I should have answered you first, and the answer is NO for God's sake let's not kill anymore innocent people in our lust for the almighty dollar in the form of oil in the middle east. However according to Biblical prophecy the middle east is the crux of the whole matter and when the curtain comes down it will be in the middle east that the key scenes are played out.
One of you implied yesterday that I was praying for the world to end, nothing could be further from the truth, according to my understanding of the Bible the vast majority of the population of this planet is not going to survive either physically or spiritually. I have droves of friends and loved ones who do not fall into what the Bible describes as "SAVED".
The thought of even one off these folks or you for that matter, not being here with me or wherever "Heaven" is breaks my heart. My fondest wish is that we could all somehow find a common ground upon which we can agree and stand there together united. But there is a God and there is a Satan and they are at war and have been for who knows how long and the main point of this war is to decide who has the right to claim humanity so it all comes down to who will you follow? That is a choice only you can make for yourself. No amount of name calling or referring to others beliefs as "cults" or stupid, or illogical, or any other number of slights that people tend to go to when they do not have the ability to gather their evidence and prove their case, will change anything. I have discharged my responsibility and told you the gospel to the best of my understanding and now the burden lies with you. You must make a choice; will it be God through the shed blood of His one and only Son Jesus the Christ, or will you follow the god of this world and perish along with him? Unfortunately those are the choices. Myself I choose Jesus. I wish you peace and prosperity in this new year, may God be with you always.
Tim, have you heard of Project Blue Beam??? If there is truth to this I would suggest christians think before they run out the door to participate in any rapture.
Tim, I was reading excepts from ancient historians on various subjects and I ran across one from a man who stated he could look at all the evil around him and he knew the end of the world was at hand. He wrote that in 683bc. Every generation, and I do mean every one of them has thought they were the last. You can go into old churches that have libraries where they store old old sermons and no matter how far back you read, the end time sermon will be found. That is just another tactic of setting the congregation free of filthy lucre. Just as you said, they should go ahead and sell what they have and give it to god if that is what they really believe. That won't be happening since christians are just as greedy and materialistic and the rest of humanity. The bible was written in such a vague manner every generation has been able to apply the doomsday prophesy to themselvs.
Achem, now that the vast majority of the dead sea scrolls have been forced from the hand of the RCC and every scholar and translator in the world has access to them, the pope is most likely backpeddling because he knows damn well those scrolls will rip all three of the abrahamic religions to shreds. More and more books are coming out and with each one more truths are coming to light and it is quite a story. Most people never had a clue that the church refused to allow the contents of the majority of those scrolls to be released. Now we are learning why. The pope is trying to cover the churches lying ass. I'll check out your link.
ciph3r:
Exactly; there are countless sects within Christianity alone, and every one of them claims to be the true religion. And every single one was created my human beings, and every holy book was written by humans as well. But people insist that the Bible is true because it says it is. If you ask them to prove that the Bible is the word of God, they'll quote from the Bible.
Reb:
You're right, there is a ton of money involved in religion. They may use some of it to help the poor and the needy, and that's fine, but a lot of that cash goes to building megachurches that seat thousands of people who come to hear one man's interpretation of some old books. Scientists, on the other hand, use money to do important research that benefits the human race. But somehow I doubt that's what Solomon means by "atheism."
But I guess we won't need any more scientific research since we're living in the ends times (like we always have been). Maybe the true Christians should donate everything they own to charity before they get raptured away and people start looting their houses.
ciph3r, the pope has made some very strange statements and even old pope paul stated that you didn't have to believe in jesus to be saved or even be in the RCC. huh!!! He also said that Mary was co-redeemer with jesus and she can save too. The church was losing many victims/members in the west due to the scandals of pedophilia so they came up with a new user friendly format, one size fits all!
The popes speeches are available on the official RCC site or you can google Pope Benedicts strange comments. The RCC still weilds more power than most people think. It is without doubt one of the evilest organizations in the entire world.
Reb: True stuff, I will google Rik Clay.
How about this for an about turn. The Pope now agrees with Evolution.
Check my link on Panspermia here on SeeUat Videos "How did the universe begin"
october 20th. 2009 at 22:42
Wow, Reb, that's awesome, I didn't know that. lol, the pope is a puppet that keeps changing it's mind. Too many puppeteers ? At least it's not as violent as it used to be, although I've still heard rumors that they still have hitmen.
BTW, everything I've posted here is a point of view, you may agree with it or not, it had to be posted. If it makes at least one person think a bit more even it's worth it.
Oh they also talk about George Bush.
Has anyone ever thought how ridiculous "God Bless America, now let's go to war in the hopes of controlling the world's oil supply" sounds? Pretty sure God doesn't like war or greed. Just speculating. In the end I know it's a politician's saying though.
Oh Solomon, religion plus money equals a TRILLION DOLLAR PER YEAR industry built on lies. The poor, homeless and hungry are given crumbs and cheap lip service while the rich at the top of the dirty heap get richer. Get a clue.
This is the problem with religion. I've seen that faith can achieve wonderful things, but you don't need a "religion" for that. How are there sooo many religions out there and all right? 700 different branches of Christianity out there.
Also, remember that the Bible was written by MEN and based on stories. While it has important subliminal messages, I think taking it literally is an irresponsible use of rational.
We watch this documentary amazed of how horrible it is, but it happens in most of our back yards. I know many people that have been indoctrinated since they were very young and there is no changing their minds even though they are in the scientific community.
Our mission should be to better the world, ensure the advancement of the human species and not brainwash kids and preach our 1 out of 700 religions door to door.
Could have used the funds to run a research labs for something better than expanding the Borg-like sect. lol. This applies for any religion including Islamic religions.
Some people though need religion to have faith as it offers a set of rules. It's the only use I can see for it, but it can be easily abused.
Achem, once the Pope would have had the head of anyone who stated that UFOs are real and there was a possibility of aliens. Now he says that beings from other planets are our brothers! In one speech he wondered if we were supposed to witness to them and if they could be saved. How is that for a complete turn-a-round from the most powerful seat of religion in the world? We have either been lied to on purpose or we are in for a huge deception soon to come. I am wary of anything that comes forth from the RCC. The 2012 Olympic theme is UFOs all the way, If you are not familiar with Rik Clay, I suggest you do a little research on what he was finding before he 'committed suicide'?????
Reb:
I agree, I bookmarked that site you put on for yavanna, it looks interesting.
Tim: I do not need any convincing about the evils of religion, although any new input is welcome.
And Solomon, I still hardly understand what you are saying, but since you have become a fixture, hang in there.
Solomon:
"As far as I am concern, science plus money equals atheism… It would not be who needs God but who needs who…"
Care to expand on that? Or should we just take your word for it? Truthfully, science plus money equals research, not atheism. You can easily have atheism without either of those. Atheism is just people minus religion.
And also, What really makes me wonder of the events that is taking place in our own very societies with the influence of the Bibles of Emperor Constantine and his Christians is the "graft and corruptions"... Imagine the original Gospels to be a gnostic beliefs!
So, may I ask... Does anybody knows or giving us a hint of what is the 'Lamb of God' is?
God bless...
As far as I am concern, science plus money equals atheism... It would not be who needs God but who needs who... :o)
Razor:
Actually, I have heard some Christians speculate that UFOs might have something to do with angels! Of course, it's no better an explanation than calling them demons. What really frustrates me is when people claim that visions of non-Christian supernatural beings are the work of the devil. If that's true, then the devil has been at work FAR longer than God, tricking people into worshiping false gods since the beginning of time! I wonder why it took so long for Yahweh to get to work making his religion, or why everyone forgot about him moments after he created the world and kicked them out of the garden. What exactly do Christians believe happened to monotheism between Adam and Eve and Abraham? It's really strange, especially when you consider that there were already people with rudimentary civilizations and religions around the time God was making everything.
Achem, without a devil the christians would have no scapegoat to blame their 'sins' on. He is just as important than the savior figure. They seem to do more business with the devil than with their god. Sure, they will admit to doing wrong but it is always due to the influence of some demon when the person is spiritually weak, which is a lie if they truly believe the 'book'. Jesus said to resist the devil and he would flee, yet the RCC makes millions from the confessions of those who must not know that verse.
Look at the record of top christian leaders such as Swaggart, Haggard, the Bakkers, the TBN crowd and on and on. When they get caught doing some nasty little sin they all, without exception, give credit to the devil and his wily ways. In fact Jesus taught is was impossible to sin once you have been saved but apostate paul had a better idea that you can't outsin grace. People liked his religion much better. That is why Martin Luther taught it was gods will for us to sin and sin often. He even advocated adultery all day, everyday! What a sick twisted religion.
yavanna:
All right, I will give you the benefit of the doubt.(LOL).
Yes , Quantum is weird, a few things for you to Google if you are interested in Quantum Mechanics. Google "Schrodinger's Cat".
And "Uncertainty Principle"
Absolutely! Demons and devils, Satan, Lucifer etc: are as real to religious people as there belief in Heaven and Hell.
Most religious people see devils and demons lurking behind every corner, anything that is unexplainable to them it is the Devils work. The first thing most of them say when confronted on the topic of UFO's is Demonic. It is never Angels on UFO's.
Basically any religious website will always talk about the Devil, Lucifer etc:
I do not think Religious peoples minds are very free at all.
I`m curious Achems - no! don't worry not in THAT way!
You are a hack student of quantum theory (your words), something to me is more like magic sometimes than religion itself.
As I am to understand it, under the rules of QT you can subject your own reality to observational changes. IE the individual; can make changes to their own personal universe. I hope this isnt gobbledigook; as i understand it QT scientists believe that the science is wierder than the fiction! And I may indeed have totally misunderstood. "May" is an understatement!
My point is however - and we are getting rather abstract with my theorising here - is that religious peeps can pretty much conjure up their own God, their own religion, therefore it is quite possible (within the constraints of your Jedi belief system - humour me) that the reality of god, religion, angels, demons, maybe even dragons and trolls are a reality to our religious brethren. It is very real to them! This I can deal with. Imaginary friends I cant.
Brings a whole new meaning to "free your mind" dont you think?
Quite true Reb, I prefer to think of this scientifically. Lets hope our technology reaches the stage where defective genes are able to be repaired and this comes before one of these nut cases gets hold of the button. (instant rapture yay!) I`d rather worship fire as a God than the psycho God these peeps "love" (and fear) At least fire is as honest as it can be and the caveman in me says it will keep me warm and keep the predators at bay! God began with the humble camp fire - lets praise Jesus derr! Evolution displayed within religions' progress - albeit in a retarded fashion. Very little transitional fossils but lots of fossils.
yavanna:
Yes, there has, and is, a lot of scientific study and evidence of the "GFID Chip" in human Brains, brought about at the beginning of our Homo-Sapien existence. And compounded by evolution to our present day standards of the thousands of belief systems that are now prevalent in our civilization.
New Religions are being made up all the time, probably even as we speak.
The 'god gene' would be the warping of common sense and ability to reason by intense brainwashing and instilling fear of eternal damnation for failing to 'honor thy father and mother', which really means NOT to forsake 'the faith'. In the OT the penalty for dishonoring parents by attempting to leave the faith was stoning.
The christian mongrels took up where the hebrews left off and found burning innocent people at the stake was far more effection and more enjoyable to watch. Cruelty and murder are the foundations of the three Abrahamic religions which has produced mass insanity and created religious idiots and monsters.
The GFID chip!
On a serious note there are whole books on the subject is there a "God gene." There has been serious study on the subject by scientists.
It would certainly save these fundamentalists a lot of time and effort if either existed.
Help! God's are everywhere!
Truly convinced, you have to born with a matter of brain chemistry.
Called a "God Module" in your Brain via, evolution.
To even consider and contemplate the fairy tale, tales, scenario of all the man made God, God's, from our little tiny carbon based units of understanding of all their is!
We need a lot of banjos!
Lonnie
Could the forthcoming "massive disappearance of Christians" in the "prophesy" mean that they simply stop believing? Maybe they all become Muslims because after all in their prophesies they win in the end. That would be on or about the day that the sun rises from the West as my limited, ignorant, "youthful" uneducated understanding allows.
There have been numerous prophesies about the world ending before and wow we're still here! What if this big rapture of yours doesn't happen - would that mean the end of Christianity. Will you all stop worrying about your God's punishments and thuggish gun to the head love me or else policies? I somehow doubt it. There would be a few that come to their senses, the rest will just adjust their cults to fit the latest non event or make brand new ones. Perhaps you could start believing in Matrixism instead. (It exists - google it.)
My post was not an attack on you. I`ve read it back a few times and I`m sorry you decided to be insulted and felt the need to produce such a beautiful sermon. I made several assumptions about you and yes perhaps that was wrong, but I was very correct in any case. You read like an open book. As a "charismatic Christian" there is the usual smugness and gushing bull mixed in with the inevitable personal insults. You display very poor judgement in your reply and confect many things about who you think I am. Patronising as are the rest.
I agree on you on a number of points. Nothing is as it appears - well yes a spade is a spade and I will call it one but without indulging in further word play you are partially right. I would never claim myself an expert on anything, there is always something new to learn or adapt to. No one knows the big picture and never will. But when you throw in the comment of my "limited perspective." Perhaps it is time for you to take a long look in the mirror. The guy on the radio is a Christian, just one of a more recognised versions than whatever cult you hail to. And getting back to the actual video documentary for a moment - HE (as a christian - and his callers) is as disgusted at the repugnant practices documented as most of the planet would be if they watched it. I would love to see a documentary for Jesus Camp from the apologetists bias point. I`d still be disgusted and apalled.
Take my belief system to pieces. It's not going to happen my friend. I am what you might call an atheist. I was baptised but I stopped believing religious dogma, fairy tales and other nonsense about the same time I realised Santa wasn't real either. And to help you build a further picture of me, I am a retired police sergeant with a degree in criminology - a proper qualification - not the type that creation "scientists" mail order from shacks in the desert.
On the other hand you are as you say a former atheist. So I assume you didn't believe any of this nonsense then decided to? I do have some respect (and a lot of pity) for people indoctrinated from birth (and indeed brain washed at places like Jesus Camp), they had no choice in their brain washing but you actually consciously decided to lobotomise yourself! And as you intimate after many years of truth seeking you decided on a system that best suited your beliefs eventually. I don't know what denomination you favoured.
We atheists have it so easy. All we have to do is not believe in "God." So I truly appreciate your irritation. Because You on the other hand have to constantly come up with answers. You have to justify (even if only to yourself) why good and bad things happen to people of all faiths. Why miracles and tradegies happen to religious and non religious people alike and then to top it all explain why you chose Christianity over all the other religions.
So your truth seeking quest for a faith that suited you must have gone on the following lines. Firstly you had to pick your religion. Secondly as you decided on Christianity you had to pick which version to follow. Should it be the one that refers to unicorns or one that calls them wild oxen? Hmmmm. Once you`d picked a version of a bible you then had to decide which parts are real or literal. And which parts are merely symbolic. Then you had to decide which type of Christianity is right (like ahem yours) and which types are fake.... like ALL of the others. Then you had to contend with all the people who follow your beliefs who disagree with you about your own interpretations.
Whenever a religious person debates on these docs there is always certain trends, one of which is to assume that because an atheist doesn't spend half their waking life preaching, being preached to, or otherwise "studying" and trying to find hidden meanings in whatever bible they decided was right; that the atheist has a lack of knowledge and his / her level of intelligence is at question. Or to put it simply - Atheists are stupid because they don't believe in magic.
This is why it is so difficult to discuss matters, especially with Christians because you cant even agree amongst yourselves. So you "lived" the life portrayed in this excellent video documentary and can most probably claim some level of authority about the subject matter. I for one welcome your input. But when you say things that are abundantly off skew expect to be challenged by people such as myself. You will find there are far more bible "educated" people on this site than myself. I only chip in occasionally when I can do so within my limits. I have no wish to waste my life on such things as bible study. I don't wish to discuss such matters in depth because people such as yourself can only talk in the intransigent whereas I prefer to school myself in realities.
Thank you for correcting Sol on the Jesus the Jew issue. It's nice to know I`m not completely stupid and ignorant. So I'll step out now to allow the further congress of your scripture battle with Solomon. Or to use a fitting metaphor. Banjo duel. Have fun.
Hey, hey... Lonnie, I have given you my source and it was in the Bible. So, let me bring you to the Verse:
Matthew 3:13
[ The Baptism of Jesus ] Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John.
Now, who is John? Let me remind you then:
24Jesus replied, "I will also ask you one question. If you answer me, I will tell you by what authority I am doing these things. 25John's baptism—where did it come from? Was it from heaven, or from men?"
They discussed it among themselves and said, "If we say, 'From heaven,' he will ask, 'Then why didn't you believe him?' 26But if we say, 'From men'—we are afraid of the people, for they all hold that John was a prophet."
27So they answered Jesus, "We don't know."
Then he said, "Neither will I tell you by what authority I am doing these things.
And as for Jesus as Roman Citizen and have been paying taxes:
Matthew 17:27
"However, so that we do not offend them, go to the sea and throw in a hook, and take the first fish that comes up; and when you open its mouth, you will find a shekel. Take that and give it to them for you and Me."
Lonnie: So if we bring MORE war to the Middle East, will that buy us some time?
I had, nor have, no desire to turn this into a religious debate about who or what Jesus is or was, nor did I try to insult your intelligence or question your belief system yet you find it necessary to do so in my direction (Yavanna) I could "cherry pick" you and your beliefs to pieces, but that isn't my aim. My intention was to attempt to add some balance to this discussion and a "Charismatic Christian" Perspective to the conversation. The fact that you find it appropriate to launch an attack on me is an interesting bit.
I feel no need to justify my position but for the sake of informing you (Yavanna) I have not always been a Christian, I claimed atheism for a time and have read many of the other religion's holy books and interviewed and communicated with many good folks from many other faiths. I consider myself fairly well educated and am constantly looking to improve upon what little I do know. I have been alive long enough and sampled enough of life to assure you that nothing is as it appears and when you think you are an expert in almost anything, that is when you are most likely to be very wrong. Also so you will know (yavanna) I watched the film in it's entirety and can tell you that as is the case with anything told from one perspective it is replete with insinuations and inuendos that if addressed by the folks who agreed to the making of this film MIGHT give you a side of things to consider that MIGHT make some difference in how you view what was going on. The Film was not fair, nor was it neutral. How do I know? Because I have lived that life. I can speak from the perspective of the subjects of this film, can you?
As for the guy on the radio I guess you would have to believe in God and understand my point of view before you could see what I saw and heard. Imagine if you were a great brain surgeon and some guy went on the air talking about performing brain surgery and started talking about stuff that was absolute rubbish, I would hope you would say; "I don't know what this guy is, but he definitely isn't a brain surgeon." To which I (being uneducated in brain surgery myself would say to you) "How do you know?" I would not be so arrogant as to attack you and insinuate that you were being unfair or that you were unqualified to make such a statement without first checking your information and attempting to see things from your perspective. I suspect that you are in your younger years and everything still appears black and white to you with very little grey area, that is a disease of youth and I hope it passes as you gain wisdom and understanding to go with your limited perspective. I am a seeker of the Truth therefore I will and do listen to all available points of view when making a determination and then I still leave room for error on my part because I know how very little I do know of the big picture. As for removing my head from scripture and getting off my knees praying for the rapture...well you are just ignorant, so I will let you figure that one out on your own. You may have read the Bible, but you definitely haven't "STUDIED" it digested it, dissected it, checked it against historical documentation, followed the prophecies through the entirety of it's books and epistles, listened to hours of teachings on it, or sought the indwelling Holy Spirit for understanding of it. This is why I say "you are ignorant" in the truest form of the word, you lack knowledge of the area in which you portend to educate me.
Jari...I do not want the world to end, nor do I want to see anyone die or suffer in anyway. Your suggestion that I kill myself was a little over the top even for an atheist.
Because of my study of the Bible and it's message and prophecies as well as Hopi, Mayan, Buddhist, Islamic. Cherokee, New Agers and some I cannot recall; one as well as my ability to "connect the dots" I can see that we are in what the Bible refers to as "The End of Days" The next big event that you should be watching for is a massive disappearance of "Christians" and then a hardcore persecution of Christians that for reason or another were not right in their heart at the time of the rapture. Soon after there will come onto the stage a very charismatic leader who will bring peace to the middle east in an almost miraculous manner. There will be a short time of peace and then all Hell will break loose because he will sit himself upon the throne of God in the newly reconstructed temple in Jerusalem and declare himself to be "God", the Jews will know him for what he is and they will run like hell. The battle in the valley of Megiddo (Battle of Armageddon)will take place shortly after that and well... I hope to be long gone before then, it would be nice if you went with us.
Solomon... Yavanna was right about one thing Jesus was born a Jew and died a Jew and rose three days later still a Jew, He was and is the Messiah, we call ourselves Christians to highlight our belief in Him and His teachings as He was the Christ (Anointed One) and God made flesh. John didn't want to baptize Him because He knew that He was literally baptizing The Son of God (In the Flesh) AND in the Spirit, God Himself, I would have been on my face too. Jesus told him to Baptize Him because it was necessary to fulfill prophecy, so John did as he was told, as I am sure you and I would have.
Solomon, are you a Jehovah's witness by chance? Because I don't know where you got your Biblical education unless it is from "The New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures" Which I have read as well. No matter just curious.
(In general)
I do not come into these places to preach or to try and convert anyone, but to add another perspective to the view. If you cannot at least entertain my comments and consider their validity, it is not I who am closed minded and ignorant as you would seem to want to label me. I pray for God's divine wisdom in your lives, please open your hearts and eyes before it is too late.
@yavanna... Jesus is a Roman Citizen that pays taxes and was baptized as Christian by John The Baptist. King David's Kingdom created Christianity out of the Jehovah's Messiah of King Saul... You can check them all out, where ever you want to surf them.
By the way, Jesus was treated like God as the word God would mean anything from. The word become flesh and the flesh dwelt among us.
God bless.
If you bible bashers are going to preach you should at least get your mythologies right, even if you cant believe your own eyes when you watch a documentary which tends to contradict your belief system as most do.)
Solomon - Jesus if he ever existed was a Jew and as Christianity hadnt been invented at that time he also died a Jew. A very few people apparently wrote a few stories and 200 years later a Roman Emperor called Constantine cherry picked the particular stories that suited him and started the cult that you call Christianity.
Tim is quite correct Loki was the Norse god of Mischief and though I get your "join the invisible dots" idea about that perhaps making this a biased documentary Lonnie, perhaps you should take your head out of scripture and get off your knees and stop praying for rapture long enough to see reality once in a while.
Lonnie you're used to treating things as misinterpretations or metaphors when something dont fit your particular belief system. So when you say "The Guy on the Radio is not a Christian and doesn’t follow the Bible." - you probably get that from one of his opening comments (If you managed to watch more than 3 mins into the doc) "I have been raised a Christian all my life." I might go so far in extrapolating that at some level he follows the bible....or at least read it as have most atheists.
Christians were martyred throughout history for their belief in Christ. So what? Many times more have died because of religions. Inquisition, crusades and so on. Look at history yourself!
"You don’t “KNOW” anything, nor do I." Well you are half right. We would obviously differ on which half though.
@ Lonnie- But if you so want the world to end, why don't you kill yourself now? LOL-- sounds like a shortcut to me!
Anyway, Jesus is a Christian and not a Christ as baptized by John the Baptist.
The Baptism of Jesus
13(AC)Then Jesus arrived (AD)from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John, to be baptized by him.
14But John tried to prevent Him, saying, "I have need to be baptized by You, and do You come to me?"
15But Jesus answering said to him, "Permit it at this time; for in this way it is fitting for us (AE)to fulfill all righteousness." Then he permitted Him.
Type in the words "Loki god of" in google and see what you get, technically you are right, it is not a literal translation more of a character translation. Loki was a deceiver and responsible for the "Evil" to the Norse, so let's just say he was a "type" of Satan. As far as me being right or wrong about this being the last days, you don't "KNOW" anything, nor do I. But the signs are all there, every prophecy that need be fulfilled has been, and the one world govt that the Bible warns of is well underway so if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on this being it. Hit me back this time next year and we'll see if you still thing I am wrong.
I wish you wisdom and discernment in these troubled times.
@Lonnie: Loki is not Satan, Loki is a god from Norse mythology. Get your facts straight.
Also, I really hope you're wrong about this being the End Times and Christians about to be killed. Actually, I know you're wrong, and I'm glad.
I would like to point out that this film was made by a company called "Loki" films and Loki is another name for Satan so I doubt they were very neutral about it, even if they tried to be. The Guy on the Radio is not a Christian and doesn't follow the Bible.
That being said these people (The Christians) are very "Religious" and are still operating under the delusion that GW Bush and his fellow liars to include Clinton and Obama are Patriots and have the best interests of this country at heart. By now I hope they see the truth, but I doubt it.
There will be no "rising up" for this nation or for it's Christian population we have entered into the "End Times" and some Christians are about to be pulled out of here, and when they do it is going to get very ugly, those that are left will be killed by people like yourselves who see Christianity as "The Cause" of all the world's problems.
When they speak of warfare and dying for Christ that is what they mean, they aren't going to strap bombs to themselves or take up AK47's,
They are preparing to either rapture out or be killed by their own friends and neighbors. You should check out Fox's book of Martyrs it tells the story of some of the folks who have been martyred throughout history for their belief in Christ.
Don't judge what this lady is doing by this film, it is badly slanted and is quite a skillful piece of propaganda. You can't judge a thing till you know a thing.
Sorry... Maybe some distinctions would help in the future...
Oh I didn't mean you Sol.
This is about the doc... It is about the leadership that is going on with "Jesus Camp".
Razor:
Agreed. Seems like people have stopped talking about the doc and started preaching.
Solomon my man:
You hit the nail right on the head!
Jesus washed His disciples feet... as if saying "go in peace..." Resigning Himself of their bondage to Him... Setting them free.
Those who wish to be the leader of His Ministries should know what is Freedom and Liberty is. You could not get out of a prison just to be imprisoned by another. Anyway, tell me what is and how should salvation works... to believe because others have said on what to believed or to believe because in knowing what to believe?
Peace be with you all in the name of Jesus....
Rachdanon:
No preaching allowed!
If you are going to say anything, talk about the Jesus Camp!
Not everyone that calls Jesus "Lord, Lord" shall be saved. The Bible is very clear about this in Matthew chapter 7. The Bible is also very clear the wheat and the tares, the goat and the sheep, in other words the saved and the professing will be churched side by side. Go back to the Bible to find out the truth. Read it for YOURSELF. No hearsay, website or documentary should replace that. It's your salvation. Be sure to get to the truth. Just felt the need to say this. It's my first time posting.
God's a childish fable : (
Unfortunate?
Not really.
CB, I am curious. Do you live by the OT Levitical laws?
@Reb,
Jesus did preach of what was written, and you are correct, even Jesus told it also:
Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.
He had also told us to keep the utmost importance of our father over the knowledge that we acquire. He also noted that we should not call anyone father but our own father. And I am glad that He had kept our father in heaven as we acquire our desired knowledge to go through life...And for its promise;
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
God bless...
God Made Mrs Clause get her brother to drink her pee! It all makes sense now!
Wibble... Wibble.......Wibble.
I can't believe that people are arguing whether or not jesus is for real? I mean of course he's for real. How else did we all get here? The invisible man in the sky that no one has ever seen put us here 5000 years ago, duh! I mean what are these people thinking. Do they think it's a women or a cumulus cloud or something? Or dare I say evolution!!! How believeable is that? Since I was born I basically haven't changed at all. Except for drastically not having any of the same traits I had then. All those years in school to I didn't learn anything more then what God had already given me for knowledge. Don't you see that? God has a path for us all. He watches our every move. The other day when i pee'd into a cup and told my brother it was orange juice. God knew about that. Infact, I actually think he made me do it!
Mr. Razor: :-) Yes, I knew what you meant. I was just trying to be clever and upset REB at the same time.
Come on Charles B:
I did not mean Hell literally and you know that. I used it as a figure of speech.
Let me rephrase that than, I should of said, give them "truth, proper reasoning, and proper knowledge" hows that, is that better?
REB: I'm not unthinking. I've very deliberate indeed.
Indeed mankind, which is created in the image of God has wisdom inately given to it. That's what makes us human. The penning of the Bible was a slow process over literally thousands of years. God had been speaking to the faithful in some form or another in all generations, such as with Job (long before Abraham) and Jethrow who was Moses' father-in-law, but as far as I know not a Hebrew. Rahab the Harlot was a Cannaanite women, and Ruth was a moabite, but they knew truth when they heard it (or God revealed it to them), and had wisdom to discern good and evil and were rewarded for it by God Himself. In Rahab's case her whole family were spared also for her faithful discerning heart.
Moses was trained by the Egyptians. He was in fact an Egyptian prince, was he not? It's not surprising that the Word of Truth (the Torah which he penned) reflect some of the wise ideas of Egypt; it would be shocking if if it didn't, but I think the Exodus account is accurate. My opinion of course, but I do read and research my opinions also from time to time.
If you wish, I appologize for my jab about you heading to Hell in a handbasket. I was trying to be a little tongue-in-cheek while at the same time being a little serious. You don't pull many punches, REB. If you dish out the insults, you should be wiling to accept a few in return.
Let's make peace for a while if we can.
Charles B.
CB, you are one big hypocrite! How dare you preach to anyone on using the word hell in any context. I seem to remember you putting your pious self in the position of telling me I am going to hell in a handbasket. Furthermore, I don't give a rats ass how many languages you speak or how many biblical classes you have taken. So what?! What a waste of time and it didn't seem to do you much good as you can't get it through your thick skull that the bible is a tool of control and you are marching right along with the rest of the mindless unthinking herd.
There are hundreds of bible versions and you can find one to say exactly what you like. For an 'unchanging word of god' that has got to be one of the biggest jokes in history.
You wouldn't know the truth if it stood in front of you and slapped you on the head. Everything that jesus is supposed to have taught was said by many wise men before him. You can find all the commandments in the Egyptian book of the dead and the laws of King Hammurabi, both predate christianity by hundreds of years and also the time of moses. Every story in the entire bible was 'borrowed' from other cultures.
REB: I have a minor in Biblical languages. I used to be able to read a fairly good portion of the New testament in the original text. John was easy, but Paul is Ph.D. level Greek. Hebrew was much harder. I've not used them for a while however, but you do have an "imspiring" way about you. I've not wished for my Hebrew and Greek manuscripts more than I have this year since college. I'm not tied to the King James version or any other; I understand completely that they are translations. Thanks for your concern for my well being in accurate Biblical study.
Mr. Razor: Giving people "hell" is nothing to be proud about; you should be excited about giving people "truth" and "life" rather than something that is quite fittingly deemed doctrines of "Hell". Peace. ;-)
Tim:
Coincidence, I borrowed "Harry Potter" and the Half-Blood Prince DVD.
today, Could only watch half of it, bored me to tears, so low key, no action.
There was no story line, no substance of any kind. There is nothing bad about "Harry Potter" series. Pure fiction.
Confusions on Christians doctrines: God the Father, God the Son, Sacrifices or Offerings, Convictions of Innocents... but one thing is for sure of the people on loser sides, they will never get into the world of Christianity.
Losers are just sore loser who keep on getting into the nerves of winners! lol
Very true, Nina. I will never understand the whole "Harry Potter is evil" thing. I'm not a fan, but I definitely don't thin it's going to make anyone a bad person. Hell it's not even gonna make anyone start using magic, if that's what they're afraid of. You can even be a Christian and read Harry Potter. It's just fiction.
One of the most disturbing things i have ever seen.
Whenever the kids in this documentary are not crying they look confused, terrified or quote they're parents.
Isnt it more relevent to teach kids to be loving towards everything, live and let live..? instead of yelling at them that Harry Potter is the devil?
You really think Harry Potter will be a destructive force in society?
memorable quote of that pastor Ted Haggerd "use your cute kid thing until you are 30 and by than you have content"
saying 'Use the kids to build an army for god' is sickening. You dont USE kids in ANY possible way!
Love it!
Thank you Reb, for sharing your knowledge.
Like I said before, give them hell, and make them think.
The KJV of the bible has been edited more than any other version. I suggest you find yourself a bible with original wording. Of course, you will have to comb through hundreds of versions. King James was queer as a three dollar bill and his bible came about solely for his own selfish egotistical agenda. You are so deceived it is sickening.
...cont'd..
do you deserve hellfire?
Charles, I have no gods in my life and I am not evil. There are more than 4billion people in the world who do not believe in the christian god and they are really good people (at least no worse than Christians).
Tell me, if you were born in the mountains of Tibet; lived your life as a Biddhist monk, and then died....
REB: You really are a sharp one! You make me think, and it's nearly 1:00 A.M. I don't have a King James handy, but my translation says for Isaiah 45:7 "I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things."
In the New King James the word there is translated "calamity" rather than evil; but either way, the idea is JUDGEMENT. To the one underjudgement, be it man or nation, it certainly is calamity, or "evil" for them if you please. Of course judgement belongs to God. No mystery there for me.
As for the evil spirit and King Sual, that's sad. I know the story and I would interpret the idea as "allowed" the evil spirit to torment the moral corrept king that once loved God. If God "commissioned" such to be sent to Saul, I'm not sure, but I do know for sure that if Saul had not been an evil man, then such would not have been "sent" him. It's the results of his own wickedness.
Again, the dire results of sin such as starvation and having to eat your own children are judgments and would not be imparted to a righteous people. God doesn't enjoy seeing suffering, but He does enact justice and can be provoked to anger at gross and prolonged sin, especially.
The nostrils thing made me laugh! I don't think of dragons, REB, I think in incense. We all like a little smoke up the nose sometimes if it smells nice.
I think the meaning of the passages where God takes pleasure in burnt offerings and the scent of the animal scrifices properly done is because of obedience. In the first chapter of Isaiah, it talkes about how He has NO pleasure in their sacrifices, so if He only wanted blood and gore, then that's what they were giving him faithfully, but what He wanted was an act of faithfulness from the heart. When your sins are called scarlet, but shall be white as snow, and black like crimson, but you shall be white as whool, that's a heart matter.
All sacrifices foretold of Jesus' ultimate sacrifice. They were symbolic of what Christ was to do, therefore, animals were good enough, and I don't think that children were ever used as an actual sacrifice which pleased God. He never wanted the gore and the death, but the faithfulness and the archtype of what would come with Christ. Death and gore doesn't please God's heart; righteousness does, and it always has.
I may not have been able to study as indepthly as you have in some ways, but I know God's Character, and I know His motives, and the big picture is what is essential here. I don't think anyone in the New Testament actually drank blood or ate flesh, but rather grape wine (juice) and bread. It's symbolic (RCC believes in transubstantiation), but that's an act of God, not our actions during communion.
Good night. God bless.
Thank you, REB for challenging everything I believe in. I mean that sincerely. My heart's desire is to go deeper and deeper still, and the more I learn and the more I understand the difficult passages of the Bible, the more I love Him and see how "deep" He truly is. As the Word says, "Deep calls to deep" meaning the half-hearted need not apply!
lol, I meant gobble up jesus snacks. Wouldn't it be funny if jesus crackers were packaged like animal crackers? If you are sick and miss the silly church ritual you can open up your own personal jesus snack and have at it, even in your PJs.
Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.”
This awful god not only created evil but he uses evil spirits to torment men. He is the one who sent an evil spirit to King Saul.
He threatens to send an evil on his 'chosen' where they will either starve or cook and eat their own children. It seems this bunch of savages didn't have a problem with cannibalism and is carried over symbolically in the NT by pretending to gooble up jesus snacks and wash it down with a little vampirism of blood drinking. How sick. I wonder if jesus taste like chicken?
This god is also described as having smoke going up from his nostrils and the only creature in myth that blows smoke is a dragon which the Book of Revelation warns of. He loves smelling flesh burn just like any other pagan god and satanists. You would think this god would try to be a little more civlized than the rest of his god brothers. A manmade god is no better than the fools who create them.
FREE WILL???? Jesus said to believe or burn. Now that is some free will.
As I have said before, any demented creature who could even think up such a heinous form of torture as an eternal burning hell can go burn in it himself.
God DID create hell. Some folks just don't know enough about the book they worship to make a good argument.
Hmmm so what you are saying is people created Evil (through sin) because of free will? But the all knowing perfect God created man in his image and furthermore created them capable of creating evil in that case.
Your argument that God didnt create evil is like saying a gunsmith didnt make a gun that could shoot and kill.
So God only created the nice stuff? Cute fluffy bunnies etc?
David Attenborough when asked if he is an atheist said:
"My response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And [I ask them], 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy"
As you believe Humans created evil do you also believe we created Hell? My understanding is the origin of Hell is Jesus himself brought that concept into play. That eternal damnation in Hell was brought in for the sequel - the new testament. And though humans can certainly do evil acts I dont think we've reached the technological point of constructing such a place.
Whatever we call it Evil or wrong or both - that's the message I get from this video. Children should be allowed to formulate their own beliefs not be brain washed like this.
Ayanna: Matthew 10:22 "And you will be hated by all for My name's sake. But he who endures to the end will be saved." I agree. It's still just surprising to me when it happens.
God bless! :-)
Jari: One of the things God created was something called "free will" which gives sentient beings the right to sin or not to sin. To imply that God created everything and therefore all that is also evil is a wordplay.
For another example of wordplay, "Can God creat a rock to big for Him to lift?" If so, then He is limited to lift the rock. If He cannot create a rock too big for Him to lift, then He is limited in His "creative" powers. to make that rock! It's easy for us to play wordgames, but that doesn't change who God is.
Evil is just the absence of God's goodness. It's not a real "cration" of God at all.
God bless! :-)
Charles, you said "What ever evil there is in the world is not from God"
But God created everything, LOL!
REB: We fundamentally view the world, and God in particular, totally differently. I know God's character to be one of holiness and perfection without even a showdow of "evil" in His character. I'll study out the passages you've mentioned and get back to you, but I'm quite sure we will never see eye to eye even if I give a perfect answer to your posts.
What ever evil there is in the world is not from God, as the Bible says that He does not tempt men with evil, but we ourselves go that way independently of His will for us. Paraphrased. Anything of a doubious nature is not of God, so you look for the alternative solution, which is always the correct one in the end.
You on the other hand view God's character (and yes, I mean The Judao-Christian God) as evil in His ways and basic nature. You therefore choose to want to "prove" your basic assumption even if you twist the facts, motives, or both. Neither one of us will change, most likely, but give me a month or two, and if I don't forget, I'll get back to you on this matter. If not, then I would suggest you rethink your understanding of who God is. Did you used to be a pastor? I'm just trying to understand why you are so vitrolic towards everything Christian.
Peace.
Most Sincerely Yours,
Charles B.
REB: Let me study this out further, and I might get back to you in February or March or later.
REB: Thank you for the information. I'll add it to my list of 101 things to look up or study over Christmas. I'm off to visit family. May not be back for a while.
KK
Sacrifices is not about the animals offered but of the labor and part of the wealth of the concern in focus who is giving the animal to be feed among his constituents. Burning is just a traditional practices and not an issue but eating is the main agenda. It is free, once a week is enough for God's children to enjoy the fruit of their labor since there is no money at their time.
Kelly, I do believe in a creative force but it sure the hell is not the viper represented in any book written by man. If you can read this and still deny god was against human sacrifice then you are as bad as some others here. I will NOT serve a manmade god that behaves worse than the devil he rants against. The OT only mentions a devil a few times because with yahweh on the loose who needed a devil?
Jepthah the village idiot sacrificing his own child to an even more idiotic god.
Jepthah, in his prayer to yahweh for a military victory in the bloody wars of the Israelites, promises a human sacrifice to yahweh and this ‘god’ accepts the deal. In other words yahweh approves. Since Christians insist that this so-called god knows everything from beginning to end and even the intentions of the heart, he knew exactly what was being offered and kept his end of the bargain. This bloody god could have refused this barbaric vow that he knew would end with the brutal death of a child but that is not the case.
It was the custom for a servant to greet the master of the house upon his return but the daughter is the first to exit the house and an all knowing god would have known that beforehand. He gets his victory and sacrifices his only daughter. Oddly enough, his daughter is upset not over being killed, but over dying a virgin. Human sacrifice was not a surprise to her or apparently to any of the other family members just as in the case of abraham and his son. This goofy religious nutjob cuts the throat of his own child to slowly bleed while she is roasted alive to please this demon god. Christians insist that their god would never condone human sacrifice but this is clear evidence to refute that claim. If god knows the intention of the heart as the bible claims, then he would have known if Jepthah intended for an animal to be sacrificed and would have forbid him to kill his child. Did this maniac god tell Jepthah not to kill his child? NO, the bible says that god accepted his vow of human sacrifice. Judges 11:30 to 40) What kind of parent would serve such a despicable barbaric god?
We should not be surprised since over and over in the bible it speaks of god loving the aroma of burning flesh in anticipation of eating his own creation. Does anyone else see a problem with a ‘god’ insisting on the destruction of even animals he created let alone HUMANS just for his delight in smelling them burn! The method of these sacrifices were almost to cruel to describe. The priests would bind the poor animal or human then slit their throats to bleed them while they slowly roasted. All this in honor to the tribal god yahweh.
The command in Leviticus 18:21 against sacrificing children to Moloch comes out not as a ban on child sacrifice, but a ban on the worship of foreign deities. This is confirmed by Exodus 13:11 to 16, where Yahweh asserts his ownership of all first born males, both human and animal. What saves the humans from sacrifice is the substitution of additional animal sacrifices, but that was not always so.
Actually, human sacrifice was seen as something so holy and powerful, that even the sacrifices to other gods was recognized as legitimate when practiced by gentiles. In 2 Kings chapter 3 is a desciption of a war against Moab. When the Isrealites surrounded the capitol of Moab, the Moab king fearing defeat sacrificed his son to his god on the city walls [2 Kings 3:26-27]. On seeing this the Isrealites fled in terror because the Moabite god Chemosh having received a sacrifice would surely defeat them.
Many people, especially first born sons, were only saved by the substitution sacrifices of additional livestock. [Note: Wives, children and livestock had the same legal status. There is also the hint that the purpose of circumcision was either as a substitution for the sacrifice of the entire baby boy, or a marker that substitution sacrifices had been made. 1 Samual 18:24 to 27 on the use of foreskins as a way to track the numbers of kills. The circumcision would let god, or the priests rather, know not to take that particular child. Is this sick or what?
This repulsive human sacrificial tradition may have gone back a long long way. The jewish heresy of christianity only makes sense if these sacrifices were still going on at the times of the christianity's origins. Whether Jesus was a man before he was a god; or was killed on a tree or was crucified does not matter. This all makes no sense as an act of redemption unless there was a human sacrificial rite to begin with and end with the so-called son of god!
Well, this sure explains the violence which has been created by fanatics, Jews, Christians and Moslems. What sprang from and fed by centuries of ritual murder would only be expected to create more hate and death.
CB, you have got to be one of the dumbest people on this site and you have no idea what your holy book even says.
Charles B. I think you have valid arguments. It seems that what you are saying is that the good is from god and the evil is the result of sin apart from god. Correct?
Reb: If you are a deist, then that means you believe in a god of some kind. To which god should we attribute all of your actions as a whole? Logically going along with your logic in the above posts.
REB: Praise be to God who has given us a Holy Bible that tells the truth! Despite the fact that you twist everything to be non-factual to your perverted form of logic, it's faith-building to consider that no matter the sin (or not sin) of the Old Testamemt patriarchs characters were listed. I'm quite sure anyone wanting to lie wouldn't include anything that poeple such as yourself could use to distort God's Character with in generations to come.
Not only are your facts very biased, but your interpretation of facts are spiritually numb. You make many unfounded claim about not just my character, Biblical people's character, but God's character as well. This shows how foolish your way of thinking truly is. Whatever spiritual flaw the Israelites had were not of God's character. In fact, aren't they forbidden to enter the Promised Land for sin?
For example, there is no indication that God asked or required Japhtha to make such a stupid oath or to carry it out.
If people were committing murder of Christians in the name of "REB" 5 years from now, would you condone or be pleased with that? Let's hope not.
Jesus was a righteous man. Whom did he rape, murder, rob or your favorite, molest mercilessly? Whom did His 12 disciples disembowel in His name?
Those that follow His Character are Christians, and those that don't aren't. You listed on another thread list after list of mass murder on the scale of millions by the Chinese and Russians, the Nazi, etc. Hum. Seems to me evil is basic human nature unless one follows the Prince of Peace willinging, who is Christ Jesus.
Don't you think it interesting that Jesus called those by God's name that did evil "Children of the Devil"? That is your true source of evil on earth no matter whom you choose to put forth as an example.
But, for those in the Bible, when they made a mistake or sin, and repented, they were not cast out, but those who chose to be evil without repentance are in Hell as is just.
Have a little more faith and trust in the eternal holy nature of God. He can be trusted.
The leadership in that "Jesus Camp" is in big trouble. It doesn't know the internal conflict of being a Christian with Jesus. As it is, God bless be unto King David and his Lord.
The children are of their conscience unlike of the baptismal. Everything about the events was on their parent's watch who are not seeing the leadership but only of the indoctrinations.
Peter, if moses and his band of cut throats were alive today, they would be tried and convicted of war crimes, crimes against humanity, rape, pedophilia, bigamy, sorcery, kidnapping and genocide, just to name a few.
Abraham was the original dead beat dad and pimped his own sister/wife for gain. He was living in an incestuous relationship.
Lot was a real role model who raped his own virgin daughters when he was dog drunk and they bore his bastard incestuous kids. Of course, the authors of that tale blame the daughters. Isn't it odd they managed to end up on the run hiding out in the mountains for fear of their lives yet somehow mysteriously packed enough wine for a drunken orgies!! lol
Jephthah sacrificed his only daughter to a demented god that accepted this vow knowing an innocent childs life was at stake. Imagine cutting the throat of your child and letting them slowly bleed to death while being roasted alive to please your god! Even worse, imagine a 'god' that would even allow such a heinous act being done to honor him.
The sordid bloodfests and sexual perversion that fills the OT is far worse than anything published today yet people like that bitch at jesus camp teach this trash as the word of a 'holy?' god. Those poor children.
this Jesus camp is wrong on so many levels.
Im the first in line to burn that fat bi**h,because beter one significant death then thousands nonsignificunt,and the bi**h is making herself an army
Bloody hell, this documentary is disturbing. This is child manipulation at its best, shouldn't she teach the love of god rather than scaring the poor kids with sins and death? And even more to the point, these kids should be riding their bicycles and playing some sports not be brainwashed about abortion, global warming and the like. And my favorite part: if Harry Potter lived in biblical times, he would have been put down to death! He's a character from a fairy-tale for children..
Tim: I agree with you. It's a bit harsh sometimes.
Reb: Out of sheer kindness I decieded not to comment on every doc you have, but I thought about it because you called me a "buzzard" that's always poking his nose (I think technically it should be "beak") into all the threads. I've no interest in the 9-11 conspiricy stuff, so have at it. Yes, yes, you're welcome. You're so welcome! Don't mention it. No guarantees however. :-)
(Cue happy cheerful birds singing and children laughing background noise now . . . .)
Just remember, "Buzzard B." is circling the comment threads just waiting to make you joyful and happy in all new ways with my happy and cheerful posts of Truth! . . . . . . . . . . Or maybe not as I do have a life, but ya just never know. ;-)
God's warning about the "tree of knowledge"... you'll never know the good if you'll never know the bad. So, doing what was practice is good and, faith and beliefs among the authorities is the guiding influence... that will establish what is good. As always, the "Words of God" should be as always be without past or future!
Is it just me, or have the personal attacks gotten worse lately? I prefer to attack ideas instead of people. It's not illegal to brutally assault an idea. =)
Cb,
Your a total wierdo And just slightly creepy.
Reb: You said that Christians (and by implication me specifically) and I quote: ". . . don’t give a damn about what is going on in the world around them." You're also said that all I give is "pompous pious self-righteous spill." Wouldn't you also respond had I said that trash about you?
It is known by most professional psychologists the overuse of 'I' and other self-proclaiming personal pronouns is a serious indication of a highly narcissistic personality. These people have the need to constantly point to themselves and the good they have done and crave attention they feel they deserve. Many who claim to be devout religionists use that claim in order to elevate their imagined status of superiority by aligning themselves with a god. When they speak or write they usually give minimal lip service to that deity but never fail to focus attention to themselves and what they have done. The vast majority of posters here NEVER do that.
Example: "That may be true of some, but it’s not true of me. I care. I’ve even been the one to “go” on missions trips and actually do the work of feeding and building churches, and I want more than anything to be a full-time missionary myself on the ground, but I didn’t make the moral cut in the past, but I still hold out hope for the future. I give both time and money to what I believe in because I do care. You need not know the details, as God asks us to keep our works and deeds low key so that our motives are for His smile alone. Be cordial if you can’t be nice at least."
Talk about blatant hypocrisy!
Matthew 6
1"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
MATT. 7:1-5
“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and; behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.” KJV
Ghandi once said "if christians behaved more like Jesus I would become a christian".
REB: I forgot to addess this comment.
"You can fall for his pompous pious self-righteous spill but I have seen hundreds like him who don’t give a damn about what is going on in the world around them."
That may be true of some, but it's not true of me. I care. I've even been the one to "go" on missions trips and actually do the work of feeding and building churches, and I want more than anything to be a full-time missionary myself on the ground, but I didn't make the moral cut in the past, but I still hold out hope for the future. I give both time and money to what I believe in because I do care. You need not know the details, as God asks us to keep our works and deeds low key so that our motives are for His smile alone. Be cordial if you can't be nice at least.
REB: I'm not on here 24/7, 12/6 maybe, but I'm going on vacation soon. Be patient and you can comment without anyone to challenge it in a week or two. Believe it or not I actually watch some docs and enjoy them and don't even leave a comment.
REB: I'd be the first to admitt there is a lot of "sin" in the church as well. To our shame it is true. Jesus warned His own close disciples and friends to beware of the teachings of the Pharisees least they too fall into doctrinal error, but you can't throw out the baby with the bathwater. Not every Christian is as evil as you say, but I would conceed a few are, and for those I do appologize. Shame on us for greed and power-mongering, sexual sins we've hid while praching righteousness, subjugation of others in God's name, and any other wicked thing we've done in God's name in ages past, and I mean that sincerely. Many a wicked-hearted "Christian" will get theirs eventually. But, not all of us are evil-hearted unless you define evil-hearted as one who is a "Christian" without exception.
As far as me about to spew out "Westboro Church" venom, I doubt that. Jesus is still my eternal hero, and my example; He was gentle and kind to the needy and to those in need of God's love, but He didn't let the religious know-it-alls slide either. He wasn't very political, however. Perhaps I should just let that aspect pass more. He was kind when kindness was called for, but He was confrontational when that was called for also. The trick is knowing when to be kind and when to be confrontational.
I try to do all I do because I truly believe that one day I will also stand before God to give account for every action I've done and ever word I've spoken and how I've conducted myself while under His name as a "Christian". That is who I am, and "venom" isn't the first word I would use to define myself.
The only thing I want written in blood is my name, in the Lamb's Book of Life; written in the lovely scarlet precious red blood of Jesus Christ, whom I love with my whole heart; my Savior; my Redeemer; my Friend, and my God. Just guessing. I don't think there's any Scripture to back that hypothisis up with unless you know of one.
Tim: You seem pretty well balanced. You don't seem relgious, but you seem fair-minded for both sides. Thanks. you're an interesting person.
Tim, nothing has changed and that is why this world is in the mess it is in today. Charles B lives in a la la land and can only 'prove' the bible by using the bible. That is totaly useless. You can fall for his pompous pious self-righteous spill but I have seen hundreds like him who don't give a damn about what is going on in the world around them. He is a member of the new 'chosen' and are just as vicious as their zealot doctrines and bloody church founders. Hell, you can't make a comment on this forum without that ever constant buzzard poking his ignorant nose in. He must sit on the site 24-7 and I for one have had enough of him. I wouldn't believe a word that man said if he wrote it in blood. He has appointed himself as the spokesman for his nasty god and who the hell cares?! Give him a little more time and he will be spewing venom just like the Westboro church freaks. He is almost there now.
Charles has a good point. Missionaries do a lot of good things today. You can't really blame them for what other missionaries did in the past.
REB:
P.S. I've been to Thailand as a missionary (short term) and no one is being forced to attend any churches built there. If someone doesn't like it, they need not come, but thousands have and are greatful and thankful and joyful and happy.
It would be nice to have a quote from a mother who was saved from sickness while she was pregnant by a free medical clinic or a church there, (my X-girlfriend was Thai for a while and so I know of Thailand).
How arount a testimoney from someone that found their heart's desire in the Person of Jesus Christ. My friend from church came from Thailand where his parents have been missionaries for 30 years there. Would you like me to ask him for some links or testimonies from Thailand this Sunday so you can read the other side of the story? I'm sure he'd be willing to help balence things out for you.
Ultimately it doesn't matter what all you mockers believe, what matters is if a man or woman is faithful to God and God's call on their life.
REB: You seem to know the Bible well enough to ignore the passages you don't want to use and use the ones you think are most damning.
You wrote: "This mood of conquering the heathens by any means, at any cost, is supported in the Bible:”
“Thou shalt save alive nothing that breathest. But thou shalt utterly destroy them…” (Deut 20)
“But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.” (Luke 19.27)"
Duet. 20 and Luke 19:27 are passages dealing with the judgement of God on wickedness and wicked people. Period. You twist everything. It has nothing to do with missions.
Matthew 28:16-20 is the missionary Scipture talking about going into all the world to make disciples, TEACHING AND BAPTIZING. I can't find any mention of raping or killing anywere.
But the fact of the matter is this:
The Apostle Paul dealt with the matter of a person's motives. Even in the first century some "preached Christ" out of selfish motives, nonetheless, the message was given out and people had the opportunity to believe no matter the motive. When god judges the heart, He judges the intentions of your heart, not just the works of your hands. Any evil "missionary" or "pastor" or dare I say "atheist" that is wicked in their heart at the time of judgement will not get away with it.
With that said, I've traveled the world, and I've met dozens if not hundreds of "missionaries" and I've never found an "evil" one yet. Which if the orphanages, which of the hospitals, which of the schools, which of the universities, which of the feeding programs or housing projects or church projects should I call evil? Even Habitat for Humanity was at the start a Christian mission.
Wherever true Christians preach a true Gospel, then love, joy, freedom and redemption from sin and shame follow. People florish. Even my dear wife was part of medical missions where they did all sorts of medical help and circumcisions (requested by the hundreds) to get rid of the worms and bring hope and life.
I've yet to find an "Atheiests againt God Hospital" or "God is Dead Medical Clinic" or school dedicated to education in poor countries ran by atheists. The Peace Corps does a lot, but I would dare say that many many of the members are also Christians there. I've thought about Peace Corps myself.
Rest assured, no evil man or woman, no matter what their title or even the actions of their hands fool God. But, at the same time, the Scripture does say, "By their fruits you will know them" as a good person shows his or her goodness by thier actions. In my opinion, the longsuffering, selfless missionaries I've met time and time again that educate, literate, and heal as well as bring Good News vastly outnumbers any evil examples you may have.
The victims of Hurricane Ondoy in the Philippines were helped by whom? The government some, yes, but by the thousands the victims turned to the church and to "missions" for help. I have pictures if you'd like of the missions we support feeding hundreds if not thousands.
And a good author for you to look up is Crying Wind Stafford. She is a Native American and does a fantastic job of explaining why missionaries are so very needed among her people. She said that before her Chrisitian walk she was in bondage, fear and tried to committ suicide several times. She said it's very Western to romanticize animistic religions, but she said they are in bondage to demonic entities that only bring distruction and fear and spiritual slavery. If that is what they want, fine, but others don't and they should have the choice to choose, just like you and I have, but you reject. Give others the choice too.
Helping others to have that choice to know and serve God or not is my whole life's goal and I make no excusses for it.
Missions is at the very heart of a loving and rieghteous God and if the economy becomes so bad that all other help for the neeedy fail, you can rest assured that missionaries of some kind will still be self-sacrificing to help meet that physical need as well as preaching the Gospel. Of that I'm 100% sure. God bless them every one.
lets pray in tongues baahahahahahah. they should call it the Twitch-er's Camp.
Tim,
Lets start a new religion. Its going to be "The Right One" :)
Religion has become the most dangerous parody of the modern times.
But Cheeku, you forget the important difference that she points out between her religion and fundamentalist Islam. Her religion is the RIGHT one! =P
This is easily the most disturbing documentary I have ever seen. Becky is a very influential and hence a very dangerous religious zealot. What happened in the Jesus camp was sheer child abuse and indoctrination to ideologies that clearly do not encourage a free society.
I used to look at videos on youtube and feel disgust at how Palestinians were creating terrorist factories by indoctrinating young kids into radical Islam. But now, I stare at my screen in utter disbelief and horror. The indoctrination in impoverished middle east is at least understandable because they are the people who have no access to food/shelter/clothing, let alone to internet/information/civilization. In the heart of what the world considers to be a true democracy, the strongest power in this world with a super high percentage of literate people, this kind of fanatical indoctrination is ignoble and shameful.
Where are the sensible people in America who should stand for the rights of these innocent children? US should forget cleaning up Afghanistan and clean up the mess within its own land. This is horrendous violation of human rights and Becky Fischer and her likes in the Jesus camp should be incarcerated for the rest of their lives.
If this continues, No God can ever Bless America!
Tim, the US now has peacekeeping forces all over the world. At least Peace Keeping sounds more politically correct that complete takeover. Wherever this happens the christian parasites set up camp and do their thing. Sometime when you get time google 'FEMA clergy response teams'. This is paid clergy working with the government to help subdue people by their wily witchcraft called religion. Also, India is once again a main tarpet of christian missionaries.
There is an excellent lecture on this site called 'War and Globalism'. If you want to know what all this is about you need to hear it. Only you and a small handful here will get the meaning of what this man is saying. It is under the 9/11 documentaries. There is another article online that cuts right to the chase called Total Population Control. I consider it one of the best ever written. Governments and religions are branches of the same rotten tree and always have been. One dirty hand washes the the other. The followers are only needed to supply the dollars and support, and they do. They are being groomed for a living hell on this earth if they don't wake up.
Scary stuff! Missionaries don't do that today though, do they? I'd like to think people have become more civilized.
I agree, Reb:
A 1992 3 hour movie that I have, called "At Play In The Fields Of The Lord" with Tom Berenger, based on the novel by "Peter Matthiessen.
To me, sums up some of the missionaries protocol in trying to make Christians out of the natives.
Of course Christians will say it is fiction...Bible not?
The part that really hurt me was when she was bashing Harry Potter.
I've grown up with that series and it has literally drawn a whole generation of kids to reading and teaches lessons of friendship, love, and courage that Christianity can never pull off!
This, by far, is the funniest documentary I have ever seen in my life. Plenty of lul-worthy moments.
K.X.
If you want a reply (as you mentioned me specifically), I think you are lukewarm. You sound nice, but not really to me. Remember that in Revelation Jesus talked about a lukewarm person was vomitus to Him. I'm just being honest with you. You're opposed to evangelism and seem contenct to be "blah" within your understanding of the things of God. Have you ever lead even one person (including your kids if you have any) to know God or Christ? I thought not.
If you want to know why we do "missions" by every and all means possible, then read a wonderful book called Pearls for Popbeads. It's about a misionary's struggle to cope and bring the good news to the Balangaow people of the Philippines. You have access to the Gospel and can accept it, reject it, or just treat it like milk and toast (like you seem to do). Fine. But those who have not heard do not have that option. It's not "sinful" to evangelize them agressively if you can, and give them the same options you take for grated.
By the way, only after years when the peole understood fully, did they convert en mass and realized what a precious gift she had brought them: the Word of God in their own language. If we followed your advice, you and those like you would be the only ones that could make that choice to serve God or not now. And to take it a step further, aren't you glad that in the 1st century when Greece was being evangelized by others that they didn't have your mindset or you too would be out in the cold and dark without your option to choose to be a Christian or not, and no other options. Thank god for passionate people like the Apostle Paul, missionaries around the world and people like Becky Fisher in this documentary.
Before their own master a servent stands or falls, meaning God is ultimately everyone's judge, and not us, but my gut is telling me your philiosophy is even more poisonous than outright rejection of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
God bless, but please get some passion.
It never ceases to amaze me how hateful people are to this movement. They call black white and white black and evil good and good evil! Truly the Bible is proven correct when it says that in the last days such an atmosphere will arise.
This is a Godly women doing a good work. Doesn't anyone have any form of Godly disscernment any more? Now the Westborogh Church is awful indeed. That turned my stomach for their lovelessness.
dray: This camp is nothing like Hitler and what he did. You're comparing apples and oranges; good and evil. Be nice.
Kate: No he didn't get caught with "boys" in a hotel room. Appearently he had sex of some kind with an adult young man in his church and/or a male prostitute that squeeled on him because he thought it "hypocritical" for Haggard to condemn homosexuality while having sex with him. No underage kids were involved and all consentual, but I'm not sure about the drugs. Who cares about that?!? The other is so embarrassing he will never pastor again, most likely.
Be sure you practice what you preach as your sins will find you out. Poor pastor Haggard. I wonder how much damage he's done by not practicing a little self control.
Did Mr. Ted Haggard get caught with boys and speed in a hotel room somewhere? You know, Mr. Ted "I hate gays" Haggard?
Hitler Youth rehashed - watch these docs side by side
This is lunacy in its truest form. I feel sick just watching how this woman is taking advantage of children and preaching lies and hatred.
Ignorance and blind faith, such as the herd mentality requires of it's clueless members is a 'sin' that bad typography pales in the presence of. Some people who cannot justify their perverted believes use petty silly issues in order to avoid the obvious. The obvious being they are a product of their culture and poor upbringing from parents/guardians who were brainwashed and dreadfully forced into following a superstitious errant religious system. One generation deceived will in turn deceive the next. Thankfully, more and more are beginning to wake up and question the multitude of problems that lie within every religion. As Thomas Paine so rightly wrote "Religion is an accident of birth". Few choose their religion as it is chosen for them before they are born. Even fewer have the courage and intellect to question or think for themselves. These creatures depend on the leader of the herd/flock to do their thinking, and the omegas wallow before the alpha. What a degrading state for men to live in. Nothing makes men more revoltingly effeminate than religion. Just seeing grown men get on their knees before an imaginary man in 'worship' is purely repulsive and perverse.
Bad typography is a sin.
Child Abuse. A good ass kicking is in order for an adult who teaches this garbage to a child.
I watched this video in, oh, seventh grade with my best friend at the time.
I was disgusted then, and five years later, I am even more appalled...
It amazes me what these people get away with. I have nothing against religion, I really don't. I just have a problem with people like these that use it as a tool for violence and hate. Not to mention manipulation and fear-mongering of innocent children! What kind of parent would allow such things to happen? I wouldn't even let the kids I babysit go through that. It's abuse.
...Everyone should be a Buddhist. =P
The following are my personal opinions and I do not write them down to judge or persuade others to share them. I hope for healthy conversation and am open to it. Having said so here I go:
1) I am absolutely against abortion and this has almost NOTHING to do with religion. Life is a wonder however you see it, as a scientist, a religious person or simply a man. There is so much void of life in the Universe. Billions of planets bare of anything we could even compare to organic life exist and none yet has been found that bears it besides our beautiful earth. Entropy is tearing at life, we decay, age and ultimately die. The only way we can fight this power that drives us to nothing is given to us in the form of childbirth. Birth is the fight of life to go on. I will not condemn men and women who chose to let entropy win over the order of life through abortion, but I truly hope that appreciation for life will grow in time. May it be a sick or healthy child or any creature in fact, life should not be stopped for any but the most serious of reasons which is the preservation of another life.
b) Proselytism, I am against also. Yes we have a duty to teach our children and I understand people sharing their beliefs and protecting them is alright and sensible if not necessary. But, the act of enforcing your beliefs through various means like brochures and sending people with gifts into underdeveloped countries to preach of god and tempt with goods is almost sinful in my eyes. How to school a child in religion is something I don't think can be written in a book like an abc guide. Religion comes from the heart and should be given with love and above all with the risk of the other party not accepting your heart's feelings. Any means like games, songs, goods used to convert a person stray from the road of true christian sharing in my opinion.
I would not call it brainwash actually, as you can't call any type of teaching brainwash. Behind everything a person teaches can be either good or bad intention, that does not go only for religious schooling.
c) Competition with other religions I also am against. God gave us the freedom of will and taught us his compassion and tolerance I believe. That someone does not believe in the same religion as you and for that to try to change him or eliminate him are just man-made obstacles made to hide the true meaning of being a good person. God, I speak of the christian God, gave us ten laws to obey and if you check them they have little to do with praying every day, fasting or those things that we do or the other religion's followers do and which drive us to be appart. No our basic laws are "You shall not kill" etc things that we clearly should follow. To me each that can stick to those basic things of being a good human towards yourself and others are all a man needs. Striving to judge men and women on more than their moral and kindness is folly in my eyes. I do not think Jesus judged humans on their beliefs either, but on their character and morals. And even those He did not agree with he considered his brothers. We should not do any less than that either I believe.
I am an Orthodox Christian believer from Greece if that is of any consequense to my opinions. :)
Alex, Charles and the rest of you who wrote here I read through your comments and I truly wish that one day all those differenses that create gaps between us will be eliminated with bridges of love and understanding.
Thanks to those who went through this large post of mine and best wishes from X.T
This made me so sick I couldn't finish watching it. As I took it, Christians were about love and acceptance? Not war and tyranny.
I agree with all the people who said this is child abuse.
Joe: My heart goes out to you for having experienced something like this. I admire your courage to share that in this forum and speaking out against it.
Charles B.: If summer camps are about learning and healing and growth, send the kids to a non religious summer camp, where they learn about team spirit, sharing, friendship and get to experience their natural surroundings or a new sport. Theres no need to brain wash them into believing that they are being judged by some mystical power.
I dont understand why parents bother "dictating" how the world works by reading from age old religious texts to their kids without actually know anything about it.
Science is rooted in hard facts and encourages questions. Teach them science so they can learn, and when they do ask questions, they get encouraged for it instead of marginalized or told to shut up because "that's how God wants it"
Religion does not explain the working of the universe around us. Leave that to science. Stop arguing with things like global warming and evolution.
What I dont understand is this craze of fundamentalist religious groups to secure their spot in this mystical eternal heaven. Why cant we just live in the present with the ambition to further ourselves and each other? Why cant humans just be honest and helpful toward each other? We do not need a 2000 year old text to teach us these things. If we are honest, strive to better ourself, respect our peers and elders and reach out and be empathetic to our fellow humans I am sure that, when you do die, (assuming that the millions of scientists are wrong and there happens to be a God)and find yourself at the pearly gates, I am sure God will find a way to bend the rules a bit let you in.
Joe: I'm sorry. Try not to blame God if someone (especially if it was a pastor figure) has hurt you as a kid (assumed).
Razor: I doubt we will come to any form of compromise on this one as we see the world through totally different eyes. When I think of "camp" what comes to my mind is healing, good times, love, growth, encouragement and being challenged to be a better and deeper Christian. This is also what I saw in this documentary.
Joe: I really disliked that church that preached against homosexuals (a lot) and much more than this Jesus camp. I don't think the two can even be compared. Was this documentary really that disturbing to you? Yikes!
As far as the documentary itself goes:
It was pretty fair I thought. It said what Miss Ficher said, and didn't add unneeded commentary; it let the camp speak for itself. I liked it without some commentator dissing on everything. The only thing that I didn't like as much was the political support seemed a tiny bit militant, but any focus on holiness and love of God with your whole heart, soul, and mind is very admirable in my eyes. There is a Scripture that says, "The kingdom of God suffers violence, and the violent take it by force." This just means you can't be a pansy and be an effective Christian; you have to be proactive, ambitious, and earnestly striving to procreate the faith; no physical violence is condoned here. Faith is a spiritual battle against that which is evil in this world; that's what I think Mrs. Ficher believes also and was trying to convey at her camp. I see nothing wrong with that.
Anyway, Salute! I'm not planning to comment on this thread again unless someone has a specific question. I've added my 2 cents worth already! :-)
God bless!
Charles B.
Joe:
My Mother, for some strange reason, she was not religious, decided I should go to a Catholic kindergarten when I was 5 years old.
I remember looking at all these big wall murals of brimstone lakes, full of fire, and naked people being burned to death. The Nuns telling us if you did not believe that is where you would go. I did not believe even then, and told them so. They were not happy with me.
So they got the Rev. the Father, to talk to me, after berating me somewhat, I actually at 5 years old, told him to f....off.
That did not go over good. So I was no longer welcome there.
The Rev. went to see my Mother to inform her that maybe there was something wrong with my head! That was the wrong thing to say of course, to anybodies Mother!
I guess I do not have the God module in my brain! thankfully!
:D
That was one of the most disturbing movies ever.. To manipulate children to that degree is unforgivable. Hopefully these kids will learn the truth about everything when they are older and they will in fact be the ones who bring an end to it.
Of all the docs here at SeeUat Videos, personally, I find Jesus Camp most disturbing.
Charles B.
Charles, I think you are being naive. Most of those kids who speak in tongue will grow up messed up. Only few, very few, will be have a balance life as an adult. And this I speak from my experience because I used to be one of those kids.
This doc does a poor job of portraying what these kids actually go through in those camps- no one can understand unless you were there as a kid. You have no idea how messed up this is...................................we were so young back then. :(
Charles B.
It it a Brain washing camp for little ones that do not know any better!
There should be laws against such things!
Adults are trying to portray there beliefs on children, so they will grow up to be as screwed up as there parents.
What a way to live EH! Charles, living to be scared sh****s about everything! Like I said before, for your religion, and all religions,
thanks, but no thanks!
:( :(
Kat: Where you see child abuse, I see a wonderful inspirational camp and mentally healthy, well-adjusted, self-determined kids, that are being given a chance to make a difference in their world for good. Whatever political overzealousness the "preacher lady" has is forgivable in my opinion.
To be a fanatical Christian and a fanatical Muslim has two very different outcomes and purposes and shouldn't be compared. Trust me, she doesn't want these kids to kill anyone or themselves as suicide martyrs. When you "give your life for Jesus" it's in service, not with dynamite.
When you have kids, raise them the best you know how and we shall do the same, and homeschooling is definitely the way to go to keep them off drugs and off the streets and instill in them a faith at a young age apart from the evolutionary trash I had to stomach and sort when I was a kid. Or a good private school.
P.S. I can tell you, these healthy happy kids are not being abused. I wish I would have had the chance to go to this camp when I was their age (for healing and encouragement from my peers); nonetheless, statistically, most of these kids (if they don't have committed Christian parents) won't even be Christians when they grow up, so you have no need to worry about that.
"All men are born with a nose and ten fingers, but no one was born with a knowledge of God."--Voltaire
I've watched this documentary several times now, and each time that I do, I get angrier and angrier.
These poor kids are being abused, brainwashed, manipulated, and treated as pawns in this country's religious arguments.
This preacher lady wants these kids to grow up so that they can die for jesus like muslim children die for allah, she wants them to be as militant as terrorists.
One would hope that a parent would stand up and protect their child from this hatred being shoved down their child's throat, but not a single one of them do because they believe in every word that is being preached.
They lived in closed off communities whee everyone believes the same as they do, they all home-school their kids so that they won't ever hear anything but what the parents want them to know, and it's just so so wrong.
The scene where all of the kids are crying and being called sinners, hypocrites, and blasphemers, publicly humiliating them in front of their peers, making them all feel so low and alone, making them wash their hands in bottled water, is so freaking disturbing.
It's child abuse.
This is child abuse and no one is helping them.
My heart breaks for all of these poor manipulated and abused children. :(
Dear Alex, (Not me, Alex- but the guy that just ended hus coment with god bless)
Do you really agree with everything those evangelical people were doing? Letting kids get so worked up about god and faith (something the adults themselves admit the kids have little knowledge of) that they start crying and speaking in tongues - honestly dude - let's be realistic - wtf is that shit?? - and what the hell was that psycho seizure shit that one kid had on the floor?? - you radical christians are messing with the minds of children. This is a force that can have unforeseen consequences. I can't help but be reminded of the Hitler Youth when U see some of that shit - fun activities by day and radical indoctrination by niight - the promising of a better tomorrow and teaching them to hate themselves...
I believe that there are few worthy wars nowadays - but I would gladly lay down my life to wipe you twisted people off the earth.
Alex:
You would be hard pressed, to find many Comenters that would disagree
with you. But you where replying to the religious Alex. He is off the air ,so to speak. For various reasons I believe he is banned from commenting on SeeUat Videos.
No ugly fat bitches in jesus' name!
- also - for the ugly fat bitch: Don't talk about islam and countries like palestine and pakistan, and then think its smart to throw israel in there, just for good measure - it isn't a muslim country you ignorant cunt!!!!!
How do these children have the emotional capacity to feel such overwhelming pain? The scenes of children weeping, preaching, etc. seem to go beyond "brainwashing." Are these spiritual gifts coming from God or from the pains or fear of a religion so terrifying? I've always thought of crying/prayer/worship/spirtual gifts as yes, a movement from God, but also a catharsis for whatever sorrows or sadness people encounter from living in this not so great world; troubles innocent children couldn't possibly know. Maybe I'm setting limitations, but God does not want childrens' hearts to be disturbed. Also, what's up with children speaking about abortion when most likely they don't even know what sex is?
Truly sad. This kind of brainwashing is proof that there is no God and it is exactly why I will never allow myself (or any kids I have in the future) to follow anything blindly and/or unquestioned...
I always told myself that if there is a God then he is not a God of compassion, forgiveness and all the other BS the bible preaches but a corrupt, sick and twisted entity that is clearly bored and playing games for his own amusement, because it's pretty clear that a loving, just God would never let a world like this exist. A world full of pain and sadness and constant war... this is Gods plan? (hmm and to think he would let this happen and not simply say... "wait a second, this isn't right...")
I suppose at the end of the day it's much easier to beileve in a concept God and accept an idea of eternal bliss after death then it is to face any other possible alternative.
What if we artificially create life, we know the sequence for creating artificial sperm in labs just haven't invented tools able to create patterns in amino acids which would mimic DNA. Humans are working on producing artificial eggs for growing infertility problems around the world. If we ever succeed in conception of artificial embyro's can we kill them for stem cells and it be OK with god?
Wow, i've only watched about 8 minutes of this "movie." This is why people do nt ike christians. They are all crazy like this. They are speaking in tounges for Gods sake. The fact that i do not believe in God does not play a part in this. This is a solid fact. The people are crazy and this should not be allowed to happen.
Wow, this is just DISGUSTING.
I just have one thing to say to the woman in Jesus Camp.
'Leave them kids alone!' - Pink Floyd
Michelle welcome!
So you believe abortion is not murder when it is.
My view: If someone believes in the God of the Bible, he would initially dismiss the idea due to that he would be "playing God" in deciding the macabre death of a fedus/baby. And after that, he has more reasons for dismissing the idea. If he's not a believer, but a moral person, again when having to decide between stopping life in its procedure and finding a solution to avoid this, I believe he should decide the second.
-There is no right reason for abortion. Saying it might be born handicapped, is almost like saying we should have killed all handicapped people at conception, people beloved, many times gifted.
Also people who make "mistakes", should "pay" for them, instead of making a little baby pay for it! This is how society should bring people up to think. But what it does is teach: Don't worry! You've done it, we'll fix/kill it!
Now if a girl is raped and becomes pregnant, society should foresee this, giving her the choice of giving that child over to the states care, unless of course she wants to keep it.
The state is in my opinion responsible in making itself safe for its citizens on one hand, moral on the other, by removing anything in society that promotes rape(porn/pornography and inferiority complexes), replacing it with Christian values. Much more can be said here.
Society is obligated to find a solution to prevent such death, like a home/orphanage for "neglected" children and for children that can't be financially raised by their parents. This is the solution.
Now, speaking to kids against abortion is great! When they grow, they will do what they can to avoid unwanted pregnancies, and spare themselves and society of the negative consequences.
Society should grow responsible people who cherish life and help them in the process.
I'd be more concerned that your niece is never found in such situation. Giving her Christian values is the best way.
God bless!
I don't think God has a plan for Levi but those adults definitely have a plan for that bright young child.
And that deeply disturbs and saddens me.
How sick is that to set those kids up to believe that their potential friends were murdered before they were born? I am actually very concerned now. I think I'm going to ask my family if those are the kinds of places they are going to send my young nieces to when they are old enough because I have a strong objection to that kind of horrific abusive inculcating behavior.
And these adults have the gall to talk as though what they are doing is moral!
Steve, I apologize. I didn't mean to personally attack you. The words "child abuse" for training your kids to love God (in my opinion) just seemed so extreme to me. Sorry. I do indeed sincerely hope you are not "lost," but only you and God know that for sure. I do, however, hope you change your opinion about the Bible some day soon.
Charles
Now I get how an ***** like Bush got into the white house. For shame.
Charles, you are so completely wrong- I am not lost, And I do not need an ancient fairy tale book to know what is right or wrong in life- it is just called common sense, which obviously you don't have if you have to get all of your morals from a book.
Charles,
I must say, what you wrote, is good enough for me!
God bless you!
PS. Pray for all here!
Alex: I am very careful with my kids too, and I would like to think very discerning. A person's strengths are also thier weaknesses. A strong-willed person can also be a bully and a calm-natured person can sometimes be a victim. That's just the way things are. With the Jesus Camp, as far as I know she's an "evangelist" and not a church "pastor" who's job it is to tend the flock, and to ground them in God's word. Their jobs are different.
I try to be fair, and I highly suspect on the day of judgement that the souls she has helped make Heaven thier home will vastly outnumber 99.9% of those who call themselves "Christians" myself included. Before I am "truthful" about a Christian who is taking ground away from the enemy, I try and look at the fruit that is produced in thier lives and in the lives of those they touch. Granted, this was a short documentary and has only a limited slice of the whole picture. Nonetheless, I saw repentance, passion, devotion, and determination, a focus on Christ Jesus, and wisdom and love for the souls of the children. Whatever "quirkiness" there was is "forgiveable" in my opinion. The vast majority of Christians never "reproduce" themselves, and sadly sometimes not even with thier own bilogical children, and only a small number of ground breakers do most of the evangelism and church growth in America and abroad.
Jesus was "quirky" when he spat in the dust and then put it on the blind man's eyes. He was highly "offensive" when he used parables such as His body being "bread and wine" and David was "quirky" when he danced "naked" or partially clothed in joy before God. Old Testment prophets were just plain odd and did really odd things too.
In fact, many intercessors I have met and talked to are just plainly "odd" in someways. I liked her, and I think I'm a pretty good judge of character. Unless I know of some "sin" that she was doing/condoning/teaching the kids, then yes, I would say she's great. She's "militant" in some ways, but who is to say that's not appropriate at such a time as this? I'm quite passive in person in that I really hate any form of agressive emotions around me and I adamently avoid negative people, but there is a place and time and a person for every move of God, and I think she's at least a part of what God is doing now. I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt.
The question of "God's will" is tricky. It's God's will for people to repent and be changed, but I do think He allows us to have our own personalities; I love vanilla icecream, but I really really really hate chocolate icecream. And I hate chocolate syrup. Alot! How I go about making a banana split sundae I'm sure would be quite different from most.
I trust her more than some pastor's I've met. The only thing that I would say is her weakness would be that she is probably moody. The ups are realy up, and the downs are realy down. I'm quite sure about that. But, I would also agree, now that you mention it, that it would be good for the kids to be more Biblically grounded apart from the emotional hype. I wonder if that was not also being done, but we didn't see that in the documentary.
People think she is using "guilt and fear" but I rather see hope and a chance at redemption. Alister Crowley (sp?) was a terrible heinious man who knew no "fear" or "guilt" of God and it is reported that his last sentence was "Sometimes I hate myself." Hum.
Anyway, Alex, I'm off to bed. I guess Christians and non-believers will continually see the world through different eyes. I'm sorry for that, as Jesus said that wide is the way that leads to distruction, and narrow is the way that leads to life, and only a few will find it. I'm so sad about that. I really am.
As for you and I, I think when I call something "violet," you call it "purple" and we're really not that different from eachother when all is said and done. Hopefully. :-)
Do you think anyone else will even read our lengthy conversations? Do you think it might do anyone good? Or harm? "Mr. Razor" is on my mind tonight. I might pray for him before I sleep--I'm assuming it's a him and not a her. I hope our conversations work for good and not harm. It's at times like this we must just put the whole thing in God's hands. I try to be very careful not to disagree with a fellow Christian in real life, especially in front of unbelievers. Souls are far too precious to not be sensitive in all ways and at all times so that in so doing, we might win some that might otherwise be lost.
Charles,
1) I don't see it as being harsh to her. It was honest well intended criticism. My intentions I believe were clear. But, yes, raw truth in itself sometimes seems harsh because most are not used to it. But Christians should be. They should love light no matter where it comes from.
2) Also, I don't see that you are a minority in your view, at least in the Church, unless you believe everything Becky does is according to God's will. I hope that's not the case. If that is the case, then yes I believe you are in the minority as you say.
3) Why would you be amazed that you are a minority on this thread?? Don't you know this is mostly an atheist's playground? What did you expect? I mean, atheists don't agree
with sound things put forth by Christians, are they going to agree with phenomena as Becky, when -in my opinion- most Christians don't agree with alot of her practices as well??
4) As for Christian parents giving their children at home what Becky may not, well this is a risky factor, one I would not count on. Foundation in Christ is not an easy thing in today's material society. Besides, I would never allow for any one (like Becky) to have a stronger influence on my children than me, unless I saw that I myself could not be the Biblical influence I should be, and even then I'd be choosy, with hands on care...
We live in weird days...
God bless!
Alex, I'm assuming thier parents can groud them in Biblical knowledge and thier home churches. That's not Becky's job, but who knows when the turning poit is for a child (or an adult). Emotional experiences cannot be dismissed that easily as we all "remember" the emotions we feel at a time or place and acutally forget so much about what is said and taught. But I truly am shocked at people who say that raising a child to love God and be wholesome and kind, and disciplined and patriotic and productive is called "child abuse"!!! What kind of person would say something like that except perhaps someone who is so totally lost that they have no perspective on what is truly valuable in life. Truly I do feel like a "foreigner" when I speak to such people and they acutally have my pity. But, if Jesus was hated, so will we. It just still feels so "bizarre" to me when it happens. I would like to compare "steve's" kids to the kids we saw in the video to see which ones were more emotionally and sociologically soundminded. Seriously.
You did seem a bit harsh with her. I could find no one who has said anything positive without a "but" and it really got me upset. Can I truly be that "minority" in my opinion? I even looked up her website to see if she was still ministering to kids. I guess so, but it wasn't a very good website I found. I might look again. Anyway, too much time internetting! :-)
This is just child abuse in my eyes- how disgusting, No child should be brainwashed into an religion. Shame on all you religious people who do this to your children.
Charles welcome!
1) I hope I wasn't included in those first sentences about misjudging Becky. I clearly said: See August 30th, 2009 at 21:53 and September 2nd, 2009 at 23:07 (Further down in that comment/to Nyax point 2,b )
2) Indeed I agree with you in pointing out her good intentions, but...
3) Becky needs knowledge of The Bible, wisdom and discerment (as you say). We are not to sweep anyones mistakes under the rug, but give what is due to the one it is due to. She could as I pointed out, help children grow near The Lord and zealous in His work, but not the way she does. I can list her many mistakes (and indirectly I did), but this is not the place.
4) Cultivating zeal in children without a very good basis on Biblical facts and experience of spiritually sober people whose "fruit" follows them, will in the long run, fade away, because it's not built on The Rock, but on sand. She talks to their unrooted faith (due to age/I'm talking about "roots", not leaves on the ground) which hence isn't in Biblical truths i.e. those regarding life in general and life in Christ, and appeals to their emotions, since that's mainly what children of that age have.
This brother Charles, will wither if these children don't receive knowledge/wisdom/discernment as they grow. I've seen it happen.
5)So yes to camps that give a firm basis on matters of faith and service, sanctification, and this headed by Spirit filled elders/servants, but no to the rest. The Church is the most serious thing on the planet (fro reasons you understand) and it should be seen that way... first by The Church itself.
May God give you His increase!
Is there no one with wisdom? No one with discernment and understanding now?!? Won't anyone stand up for truth?!? Shame on us (myself included). How can so many people say such terrible things about this wonderful person? This was a wonderful God-fearing woman, and an excellent documentary, despite thier efforts to the contrary. Truly the blind remain blind, and the dead remain dead (spiritually speaking). Look what they did to Jesus, and he was kind, humble, wise, and loving in the superlative . . . a paragon of perfection, and yet they hated Him and even killed him. The person with the higher education from one of the nation's oldest theological schools was especially sad in my eyes--that is why 70% of our kids loose faith in watered-down Christianity, not because of those like Becky Fischer who help people press into a more personal relationship with God. Lord, I repent of my own lazy half-hearted committment to You!
I only wish I could go back in time and have my childhood in such an on-fire God-fearing and loving family! Intelligent, wonderful parents. How wonderful it would have been to have that much love and compassion and direction at an early age in my life. My mom did a good job, and my dad tried, but life sucked a lot of the time. I hope and pray those kids keep their fire and love for God.
If I were in the United Sates, I would love to send my children to this camp in a heart beat without reservations.
P.S. I shall tell you why I am pro life. My grandmother was raped when she was 16 and the child she bore was my beloved wonderful mother. Had they aborted her, where would I be and all my brothers and sisters and my children?!? Adoption is an option.
God bless Becky Fischer, God bless Jesus Camp, and God bless America! How I miss the Red White and Blue!
this movie is funny but the comments govin here about it is better. people people people, this is how EVERY religion works. if you say otherwise your bullshitting .
Sarah hi!
a) I agree with your conclusion on self awareness first of all.
b) Well, I said your comment was strange (although I got what you are saying in general), because your sentences are. You don’t use periods and commas and you write as you are thinking at the time, but someone cannot follow you, if your sentences don’t accurately and clearly add up to something, an example:
“…as I aspire to walk within his message again aspire its not an easy path THIS MESSAGE IS TRUTH a message emphasised by the central characters of each major religion even by those of you who profess atheism so why are we so quick to judge belittle”
Commas? Periods? Then you say, that Christ’s message (the gospel of salvation from hell; this is the message. This is what Becky is spreading [by wrong means.]) -although you probably mean “love”- is “emphasized by the central characters of each major religion”, when as we all know this is not true. Even on theological issues of love, religions differ.
God bless you!
Ps. Please see my comment on the film (here on SeeUat Videos) “The Case for Christ”.
Nyax hi!
You write:
1) “Now first I think that we do not have the same definition of “objective” and “subjective”, but I understand how you think you are more objective towards Becky : Your beliefs are similar, they seem less “subjective” to you, so more “objective”.”
----Objectivity means taking into proper account only the real facts of a situation/topic, in order to arrive to an unbiased conclusion on them, hence without adding or subtracting from it, due to personal subjective views and emotions.
2) “Now I have been to Church many times and heard the priest talked many times, I’ve read parts of the bible in my childhood. And I know for fact that guilt and fear are inherent to the gospel.”
----Fear yes, guilt no, rather conviction of sin; guilt is just a moral response to it. Sorry Nyax, you “know for a fact” nothing as to the truth of Christianity. This is clear to me by your comments. Just honest with you. If you really want to learn about true Christianity, see -among many other things- my comments in the films Zeitgeist The Movie and Zeitgeist Refuted and exposed and Zeitgeist Addendum, or in the forum under religion and philosophy (go to “edit” and then to “find”, typing Alex).
3) “…..to the contrary most think they are doing the best good in the world. But in the end it is still using fear and guilt to make people beleive, to make them give up their critical thinking, they eventually do it willfully, but it is still coercion, manipulation (yes it is, they gave up their will to doubt, to question, because they feel guilty and/or are afraid (look at the children when they talk about Harry poter and what not)).”
----As non believers do, it is so easy for you to just throw out unfounded accusations. Amazing. Real easy for you, though real tiring and boring for me. I’m use to it though.
a) No church uses fear and guilt to make someone…. believe?? WHAT? Please be logical, rational.
b) No church makes people loose their critical thinking.
c) Christians wilfully do the above? Oh you are definitely no expert on Christianity, not even an inch close. Not exaggerating.
This is how I sound to you? My thinking process and emotions were never manipulated in ANY way! Free-Critical-thinking is a trait of Protestant Christianity (with all its faults!), this is how thousands of denomination come about!!!! Nyax sorry, your opinion after this, means nothing to me, and this for reasons I’ve already explained in my previous comment. Yes you’re in that category after these “up in the air” comments that would even make a knowledgeable atheist blush. You have NO IDEA how false what you are saying is, NO IDEA what is happening in Protestant churches. NO YOU DON’T. Please don’t pretend to yourself that you do. Humble your self to this fact rather than exposing yourself. You sound real young.
4) “By problems I was not referring only to actions. As I said before, questioning and doubting everything, especially if not backed up by facts, is an important personality trait. And religions get rid of that, which is a problem.”
----a) Just absurd. Don’t you see you’re chanting psalms that others have taught you, having no substantial, objective, “Christian problem” in mind as you are saying this??
b) But to go just a little deeper, I’ll add, religion is a set of beliefs which are initially based on indications accepted as evidence. The theory of these beliefs never teaches “accepting the false as being true”; this is what some foolish people in a religion may do. A religion (its theory) may tell you: “A is true!” But will never tell you: “Don’t ever try to prove A is true nor to disprove B is true!” This is what people (exceptions) may do.
5) “Then you could go and keep not doubting sources of information as long as they push the right buttons, say what you want to hear.”
----This sounds -so far- like what you do. This is not an insult, but blunt open well-intended observation.
6) “I could go on and on, but this is really the basis of what’s wrong with religion, the rest pretty much comes from that, people giving up their ability or will for critical thinking.”
----Same old chant Nyax parroted by people who know nothing about religion, much more Biblical Christianity. Just shallow comments with no roots in truth.
You sound like a person who will never search the truth of Christianity. A real shame.
I suggest you realize that other than your -probably- catholic upbringing, there’s a beautiful Christianity that lives in love and truth and the supernatural. Catholicism is not Biblical Christianity. It is dead religion (not talking about exceptions) since it bring believers to Mary and the saints, who are dead and are now souls; a form of spiritualism, calling upon dead people. They don’t bring people to the source of life Who is God, they don’t even know how, since they are lost in all their human religious traditions. Don’t mistake Biblical Christianity with Catholicism and Orthodoxy.
Tried to be of help to you, but there are things you can only do, and no one else for you.
Truly, may God bless you Nyax.
Nyax: I for one, agree with what you say!
Alex, first thank you for making your post clear and not a big bloc.
Now first I think that we do not have the same definition of "objective" and "subjective", but I understand how you think you are more objective towards Becky : Your beliefs are similar, they seem less "subjective" to you, so more "objective".
What I meant by "not all Atheist believe all Christians are brainwashed" I meant "Some Atheist beleive some Christians are not brainwashed". Here the brainwashed term is really only describing the blind faith of Christians (no doubt or questioning in the face of fact-less claims) and what I said before about guilt and fear.
Now I have been to Church many times and heard the priest talked many times, I've read parts of the bible in my childhood. And I know for fact that guilt and fear are inherent to the gospel. Ether from the fear of hell or guilt for having sinned, that requires repenting and confession. The examples are all over this film. I don't say priests or other Christian teachers do this with malevolent intentions, to the contrary most think they are doing the best good in the world. But in the end it is still using fear and guilt to make people beleive, to make them give up their critical thinking, they eventually do it willfully, but it is still coercion, manipulation (yes it is, they gave up their will to doubt, to question, because they feel guilty and/or are afraid (look at the children when they talk about Harry poter and what not)).
By problems I was not referring only to actions. As I said before, questioning and doubting everything, especially if not backed up by facts, is an important personality trait. And religions get rid of that, which is a problem. Then you could go and keep not doubting sources of information as long as they push the right buttons, say what you want to hear.
I could go on and on, but this is really the basis of what's wrong with religion, the rest pretty much comes from that, people giving up their ability or will for critical thinking.
p.s. ALEX
Ater reading Your last comment I wish to convey respect that you un abashadly confront misconceptions and adequetly convey the view point of this film through the eyes of a believer satans greatest victory was to convince man God does not exist playing upon the original lie That man himself is God and so I leave this to our comentaters " For those who are in accord with the flesh set thier minds on the things of the flesh but those in accord with the spirit on the things of the spirit For the minding of the flesh means death but the minding of the spirit means life and peace because the minding of the flesh means enimity with God for it is not under subjection to the law of God nor in fact can it be So those who are in harmony with the flesh cannot please God." ......" Consequently I entreat you by the compassion of God brothers to present your bodies a sacrifice living holly acceptable to god a sacerd service with your power of reason And quit being fashioned afer this sytem of things but be transformed by making your mind over that you may prove to yourselves the good and acceptable and perfect will of God....." "Miserable man that I am Who will rescue me from the body uergoing this death? Thanks to God through Jesus Christ our Lord So then with my mind I am myself a slave to Gods law but with my Flesh to sins law"..... I know I know this is not my personal web page Im slightly nervouse to leave this I bonced through scripture a bit in hope I could Do the teachinging justice without wrighting a novel but I thought to leave a gift perhaps someone could be kind enough to tell me I cant type worth a lick and need a spell checker but Im done Check Romans for further insight all those whom may be interested
Hi Alex
As stated previously I dont usually comment and while this is more of an invitation than a comment,you have inspired me to leave more scattered through these pages,reminding me that as a believer it is a privelage to share what I know of Jehovah (Viewer faith is certainly not defined in this film but rather fanatisism...I should google for correct spelling but ey you get my point) My opinion is odd perhaps because I am odd and desired to highlight that well... who isnt. I am not sure wether you found a particular subject strange or merely the over all tone. My objective was to encourage reflection NO ONE IS ALL RIGHT OR ALL WRONG I was equally disturbed by the DJ's comment on the teaching of intelligent design as a lie. ( Viewer might I suggest you review The Elegant Universe,Journey of mankind or A history of God really Jesus camp is more of a side show rather than brain food which I admit wathching only to witness a catastrophe, ...pretty sick I reference my earlier comment when I say I aspire flesh is weak)I can objectivly state that atheisim presents a valid hypothosis, suggesting God is an evolutionary consequence, a self induced suggestion to calm are fears,a purpose to contradict a pointless existence, explain what we can not comprehend or validate what we believe.What is lacking in this view is fact. Jehavah can niether be proved nor dissproved as
God cannot be defined hence the name I am The possible where lies impossibility
Mike,
No problem!
God bless you!
Nyax hi!
You write:
1) “What? Christians are more objective judging Christians than others?”
----No Nyax, I said: “Christians on the other hand **can be** more objective, since they will (should) judge her or him (1Cor.5:12)according to Scripture and in fear of God.”
I said "can be" and in a few words, I expalained why.
a) It is normal for a non Christian to disagree with my view here.
b) Now, I also said:
“…bluntly put I really don’t want to hear anything about Becky or any other Becky, from non Christians(!), since they are not wearing Christian glasses, but atheistic glasses. They are in no position to judge Becky.”
You really believe that this is not true???
Atheist believe that The God of The Bible does not exist. Then this leads them to believe that Christians have been brainwashed from children or even later on into believing He exists. With these inevitable “glasses”, how will they see Becky??
As someone who brainwashes children into a false idea. But THIS IS WRONG.
These are the facts seen form Christian “glasses”:
*God exists.
*His gospel is His message to the world.
*Becky’s zeal, good intentions, and clean conscience before God, are pleasing to Him. (not her choices)
*God does not consider what she is doing “brainwashing” but service to Him.
*God loves children and wants all of them from a young age to come to Him, and even serve Him, in a child’s way of course.
Atheists do not have these glasses, as you know.
The problem Mike is, that the above good factors are splattered in mud due to her…. Charismatic theology. This is her destruction and in my opinion, the spiritual harm of most of the children. She does not have a big measure of wisdom given from God, so after a point, she just does what she thinks is right.
An atheist sees this “spiritual harm” that I mention as meaning:
“depriving children of their youth” (“youth” as they define it),
“making them hate other people who are not Christians”,
“teaching them to disbelieve evolution”
“putting a false fear into them concerning A God and a Satan that do not exist”
Etc.
All of the above are false. Becky is not guilty of these! But most ateists will judge her on this terms.
So, with these atheistic glasses, again I will say: I don’t care about atheists’ opinion on Becky or any other Christian, since it cannot be free of the emotions and false belief the above atheistic glasses promote.
I hope I was more clear this time.
2) “You are as subjective as anybody else having an opinion on this matter (or anyone else on everything else), just in a different way.”
----Wrong. I am more objective on what she is doing wrong than an atheist can be. I already just made this point. I would be subjective if I lied when describing her, which I didn't.
3) “As for atheist thinking all religious people are brainwashed, that’s not true, as much as thinking all Christians are brainwashed is wrong. Some of them are, some aren’t, but the bottom line is that religions bring more problem than it solves."
----a) Your first sentence is wrong, but I got your point.
b) When I said “atheists” I was generalizing, hence there are exceptions to the rule. Indeed most atheists believe religionists are brainwashed. Don’t fight it Nyax, most do believe this, and I understand where they are coming from. I mean you honestly believe that most atheists don’t believe Christians are brainwashed?? You’d be the first.
c) “religions bring more problem than it solves”? No, you are wrong. This to me is yet another proof that atheists do not correctly realize religions. But please do give me an objective example. Before doing so though, visit any church from any religion and get to know the people who indeed practice their religion and see how they live, and then tell me how they create more problems than they solve.
4) “(By brainwashing I mean simply using fear and guilt to coerce individuals into a set of behaviors and beliefs, sometimes as a way of creating support for your cause/agenda, like those people do).”
----Of all who preach, do you know that just an insignificant small minority of them (among all of the millions of Christians) fulfil your above definition? That is, “using fear and guilt”, and this for their causes. Of course, you only need a few (and television) to give Christianity a bad name, and this is the case.
Christians preach the Bible. This many times brings fear and guilt. But, by -almost absolute- rule, the preacher’s purpose is not to manipulate (“use”), since this would be sin on him, and because some Christian’s will pick this up, and put him in his place…
Nyax, hope I made sense to you. I tried.
God bless you.
My apologies. You make a good point that the "fall" of Ted Haggard was not exactly world-wide news.
Mike hi!
1)“No the film does not say anything about Ted Haggard being a homosexual– as that little bit of information was not revealed to his congregation or the world until AFTER this film was made. Do you read newspapers at all?”
----a) Ok, thanks for the information. I didn’t doubt it.
b)Your question though is weird. It’s like me asking you: Do you read Greek newspapers at all?
I live in Greece Mike. All who participate on the Net are not from America….
2) “So all along he actually WAS fulfilling the last part of your biblical quote.”
----No, this is wrong. My quote was:
Rom 1:32 “who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but ***also consent with them that practise them***.”
The last part Mike was: “also consent with them that practise them”.
I saw Haggard openly speaking against homosexuality, hence he was not consenting to it.
There are homosexuals that do what they do, but do not claim it’s wrong, but even say it’s right.
Again, Haggard is guilty, but not of this.
3) “Ted Haggard. Jimmy Swaggert. Jerry Falwell…and you wonder why these religious zealots just look like hypocrites to us.”
----I wonder? I WONDER? When did I say anything like this??? Please be considerate when “quoting” me.
PS. Zealots and hipocrites come in all shapes and sizes…
God bless!
What? Christians are more objective judging Christians than others? You are as subjective as anybody else having an opinion on this matter (or anyone else on everything else), just in a different way. As for atheist thinking all religious people are brainwashed, that's not true, as much as thinking all Christians are brainwashed is wrong. Some of them are, some aren't, but the bottom line is that religions bring more problem than it solves.
(By brainwashing I mean simply using fear and guilt to coerce individuals into a set of behaviors and beliefs, sometimes as a way of creating support for your cause/agenda, like those people do).
The same laziness for true critical thinking is cause for shallowness on both sides (Pagans don't fear our god enough to have a valid opinion; Christians are too brainwashed to have a valid opinion)
Alex hi!
No the film does not say anything about Ted Haggard being a homosexual-- as that little bit of information was not revealed to his congregation or the world until AFTER this film was made. Do you read newspapers at all? Ted Haggard admitted to hiring a male prostitute for sex--AND smoking meth with him on more than one occassion. Probably happend concurrent with the making of this film.
So all along he actually WAS fulfilling the last part of your biblical quote. So I guess, in addition to losing his position as head of his New Life Church, he is also losing his place in Heaven. Ted Haggard. Jimmy Swaggert. Jerry Falwell...and you wonder why these religious zealots just look like hypocrites to us.
Sarah hi!
I have to say your comment is somewhat strange. Now, regarding Haggard, I don't like what he says, and how he says it. Is it stated somewhere in the film that he is a homosexual as you say? Anyway if he is, at least (...) he doesn't -according to his words that do convict him as you say- fulfil the last part of:
Rom 1:32 "who, knowing the ordinance of God, that they that practise such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but ***also consent with them that practise them***."
Sarah I gave my input on this film just before your comment, and bluntly put I really don't want to hear anything about Becky or any other Becky, from non Christians(!), since they are not wearing Christian glasses, but atheistic glasses. They are in no position to judge Becky. Since, anything Christians do, to them is brainwashing anyway. Christians on the other hand can be more objective, since they will (should) judge her or him (1Cor.5:12)according to Scripture and in fear of God.
God bless you!
I rarely contribute my thoughts as I prefer the audience base their opinion on the content of the film rather than the content of my opinion however I myself skim through the comments to judge what the majority deem worth watching......rather hypocritical I highlight this particular human flaw as it is inherant within us all as evidenced by the film While many of you mentioned the pastor BECKY pointing out the truth of gluttony within our society without looking towards herself DID NO ONE RECOGNIZE TED HAGGARD the closet homosexual damning himself with his own words I am saddened by the lack of self realiztation in the majority of comments left for the religious material posted on this sight I consider myself a follower of christ as I aspire to walk within his message again aspire its not an easy path THIS MESSAGE IS TRUTH a message emphasised by the central characters of each major religion even by those of you who profess atheism so why are we so quick to judge belittle and ostracize each other we are brothers and sisters as family we should strive to support and teach those led astray As an american we should recognize the right of freedom of religion and it is there decision how to raise thier children while I would brand this group of individuals wackos whos to say on another path or even in other ways I am not a wacko or you for that matter I feel regret that that the children portrayed here have ben exposed voraciously to the fears of thier parents and yes in essence lost the aspect of innocence to be enjoyed by all children but thats my view I dont think girls gone wild promos at 4 pm have done a world of good either so in this long winded essay I guess what Im trying to say is should we keep throwing stones well all be six feet under leaving the cochroaches to rule the world
Two mistakes:
The last word of point 2 is "objective", it should have been "subjective"! Also, again in point 2, strike the second "on" in the second paragraph, first sentence.
Sorry for the mistake!
1) She means well, but she is misled, and misleads.
2) "Brainwashing" is an easy word to use, especially by those biased against Christianity. The Christian adults in this film believe what they believe 100%. According to their conscience they would be depriving their children of the best if they don't lead them to Christ. Hence a leader or a parent who wishes his/her child the best, will and should give their child a Christian upbringing. If this is "brainwashing" then let be so!
The question on which most of the commentators should ponder on is whether Christianity (not christian subculture madness!) is the God given truth or not. THIS IS THE QUESTION. Once someone answers yes to it, then his perspective to this film as well as to all other things in life, will be a different one. The same goes if his answer is no. This question must be fully adequately answered. Otherwise all that someone says about God, The Bible, Christianity, is superficial, hearsay, arbitrary, frivolous, objective.
3) If this film's purpose is to portray all of Christianity round the world, then it's an atheism/evolution propaganda and the makers are completely in the dark. Check out a church near you! There are so many denominations, which go at things way differently.
4) Believe it or not, most likely, paradoxically, many if not most of these beautiful children will leave Christ when they grow up, since their views are not based in The Bible, and will wither away. The reality of God is a different on from what they have learned. Really sad for them, for the Church, for The Lord Himself!
The contents of this film is a shame for many reasons.
this is crazy, i mean, i feel so sorry for those children, everyone 'sins' sometimes, and to make them feel so dreadfull for it. Harry Potter? evil? oh dear. Fair enough they have a different belief system, but surely they're still allowed to have fun? to be free? to be children? to make mistakes.
Wow this has to be the craziest documentary i've seen so far based upon religion.
"I find it ironic that these people, who scream the loudest about the evils of abortion, are a great advertisement for it." -WOW. Hahaha! So true!
Harry Potter would've been put to death!!?? Hahaha, what the f***? That's bold. Way to sucker the kids into remorse, all kids dig HP. Comon!! I think those kids need to be told their being fooled. That wasn't the word of the Lord they washed their hands with, it was Nestle bottled water! I knew it. They're probably a corporate sponsor for shit like this.
Also, for a religion that preaches love and tolerance, God's little army does not have much of either. Especially not their ring leader, who also claims to love democracy. Yeah, as long as it is hers...
Don't you love these people? Practically deifying Bush who is known to covort in groves, sacrficing human effigees to germanic gods. Gotta love them!!!
PS: This IS what's wrong with the world...
this is the scariest.... anything i have ever seen. at the start the "fat" lady starts talking about muslim kids being trained from 5 years old. when did religion become a competition?
disgusting.
Sick Sick Sick! USING innocent children to fullfill the will of man... Not the will of GOD. God is too big to fit into just one religion or just one book. Teach these children all facets of God! Buddhism, Muslim, Hindu, Morman, Johova, Babtist, Luthern, Cathloic.. ect.
Stupid inbreds. Brain washing children! No wonder aliens do not want to visit this backward planet! I would not either!
lol. the fat b**ch sees herself in competition with jihadists from their madrasas. she's like "folks, we're losing the fanaticism race, we shoulda do smth bout it"
how can you out-fanaticise the fanatics?
this documentary is a classic already. we need to get rid of the religious before they get rid of us;
my support goes to the 101st Airborne Division, the 3rd BCT and the 101st Combat Aviation Brigade in afghanistan and the brights movement in the the US and UK.
cheers from good ol' germany.
lol damn and i thought fundamentalist muslims were problematic to the world. I have no problem with people having beliefs in religon. Even though I don't. But these are just kids, they can't grow up to be mentally healthy when they have been brainwashed since a young age. To all this jesus bullshit.
What is admazing is that this kind of brainwashing is going on in America of all places. That 'Us vs Them' mentality is where they're going wrong. Religion is whats wrong with our world and always has been. What's going on in this film and others like it has Nothing to do with Jesus. It's all about control...it's all about them wanting to be able to tell everyone what to do, how to do it, what to think, etc. Personally I find it really scary. Unfortunately, it's more involved than you may think. C house in Washington D.C. Check that out. War is their God..and blood is what they're after..total control...just like North Korea, like that other writer stated..those poor innocent children, what chance do they have at a normal life? Where will the leaders of this monsterous movement stop? Will they become like the Taliban? Strapping bombs on their children all in the Name of God? This is child abuse!!!
Amazing, terrifying and disgusting. How you can brainwash your own children like that is beyond me. Free will is a fundamental component of faith, or any other belief; the children in this film were never given that chance.
I find it ironic that these people, who scream the loudest about the evils of abortion, are a great advertisement for it.
The world would be a better place had they never existed.
What is highlighted here is important to everyone in America and around the world as religious leaders and educators alike are in positions of power to indoctrinate kids.
These people are aptly described as activists. They are political religious activists. They have extreme religious views against liberal values that have shaped America, and the global community to date.
The scary thing here, that was highlighted by Ted Haggart in the documentary is that these people are being bred to move in on government and help facilitate some of their drastic right-wing conservative ideals.
Basically creating a neo-conservative dictatorship destroying the worlds 5,000 years of social evolution.
Children should not be indoctrinated with lies about god, heaven or hell. Stop trying to tag and bag all non-believers as sinners and the cause of all the worlds ill. There is no heaven and we are here to stay.
"Heal the world" MJ - with trees, love, harmony and understanding.
sick stuff. Morons and idiots rule the world. What do you expect from people who think the devil put the dinosaurs here to "test their faith".
A.J. While it may or may not have worked on you, I feel that I should point out that the first thing an indoctrinated individual would categorically state is, " there is no such thing as indoctrination anymore". Good luck with that free thinking.
my favorite parts: wittnessing to that blonde chick at the bowling alley and her missing that shot even though she prayed,lol. Sickest part= passing out plastic fetus's, and oh, yeah, when they had that stand up of Bush; bout made me barf; well, you know- with the whole 911 thing and all...and you see people praising him like he's the best thing since sliced bread... thats when it really sets in how manipulated these people are...and they call us THE LOST -get a grip man-
WOW! ...this movie is INTENSE! I don't even know what to say! I'm living proof that this type of indoctrination only leads to rebellion and contempt twd the church; Once you get old enough to think for yourself, and/or you accidently eat a psilocybe mushroom (a handful or so) you relize how much you've been lied to, and it makes you wanna barf. No, not from the mushrooms- FROM REALITY!
evangelical Christian's are not followers of Christ. They are no different from Zionist Jews. Both financed by the same money changers.
***** she thinks Israel is Muslim (and that all Muslims train their child like she does), that shows an amount of ignorance and racism that is disturbing in a person who is in any contact with children. Not to mention the creepy fanaticism. I think this kind of child abuse is near the level of things like pedophilia or sequestration. Those people should not be free, so long as they are they will be a danger to children around them. This is just plain disgusting, and I'm not just referring to how much she is ugly.
I grew up in this conditions like those kids, but I can think for myself. I don't need the bible to teach me good or bad, so there is no such thing as indoctrination anymore, if the kid want to learn he will go online and thats it
4.5/5
flawless and to the point.
you most likely will see what you like best:
a camp in the name of god,
a camp that is misusing god,
a camp that explains that there is no god.
well, no one ever gets it right,
- 0.5 pt. for possibly manipulating the viewer:
though showing the radio station throughout the documentary is a good red line, it's also blurring the otherwise unbiased view of the camera work and cutting.
also using "mood-shaping" music influences scenes.
this is hypnosys...
as a christian, i think letting that kind of thing happening in the name of our LOrd Jesus Christ is just something we have to prevent as it goes straight against our own belief...
i feel really sorry for all these people that are brain washed and can't see the truth at the moment.
this video is absolutely frightening..... naive kids taught by gullable hicks.....im bouta puke
Poor kids.
Some people are just plain idiots. It's a real shame that such people have kids.
Stupid people should not be allowed to educate youngs.
It's just scary as, like Haggert says, if evangelicals vote, they decide who's the president...it's just scary.
Having received both my graduate and undergraduate degree from two of the oldest Christian universities in the nation, I think I can speak with some confidence about what I've just witnessed. This documentary is truly disturbing. Nothing that I learned about Christianity warrants this type of brain washing of the young into this bigoted, pseudo-militaristic version of a religion that should be based on love, forgiveness and tolerance. Hopefully, by the time these children reach maturitiy and are exposed to other versions of the truth, most will realize that their parents and leaders have been deceiving them about the true nature of Christianity, science and the world. Man, they are going to be pissed!!
A quarter way through, the only way I can describe my reaction to this film is that I'm pretty sad for these kids. I mean, I feel like they're losing part of their childhood to religion. Parents, raise them with morals by all means, but don't make them commit themselves to faith to the extreme degree they're at in this film. The sight of kids pledging allegience to a Bible and speaking in toungues is terribly saddening to me, and I wish parents like this could just let their kids grow up. There's no need to make them into something of a cult following like that.
wow this is as scary as that documentary "welcome to North Korea" and the way the people on this documentary are manipulating and using just obsurd false propaganda on these children seems something familiar to the workings of the North korean gov. on its children.. its teens and its adults.. sad sad world we live in..
If this religion was true then every child would be born with a bible in their hand.
A god that require others to speak for him is weak.
To speak for god is an act mocking god, God is 'man' enough to speak for himself.
as soon as the fat lady said something about too many christians being fat and lazy and not wanting to fast for three days...i almost choked on the air i breathe. Thank god there aren't many people like this.
This is so insanely scary, you can see in her eyes that if Bush told her to send those kids in to war she would be preaching go for it.
... I love that the woman said "there so many fat lazy christians today that wont ..." is she an example of an in shape christian? ... I thought you were supposed to practice what you preach.
There is no science behind Global warming? ... 0.6 Degrees is NOT a problem? ... good god .. WHAT? its called a TREND ... and you try to stop the trend before it gets so bad you die .. not when you start dying off you decide ok maybe we should do something about it. Creation is the only solution that has all the answers..? .... ??? ... Why is the earth not flat, why are we such a minute speck in the galaxy much less the universe, what are Dinosaurs, and all the other prehistoric life. Is this really what the supposed nation that leads the world teaches its children. If these Ideas are so right and so much the truth they should stand up to questioning, and children should be able to learn every idea and then chose that one, it should not be pushed into their heads with no other option from birth.
GHAA!!! and Galileo would have been KILLED by the church if he did not "chose Jesus" that is why he supposedly changed. Even Einstein realized that many of his theories basically tossed the whole christian concept of god out the window and thus made different sets of theories, just because he did not want to stray too far from god, in the end what was realized, the theories that he almost did not want published were all true.
Too many more things to say ... but to end it, if as you say GOD can come down any time he wants and poof change the world to save YOU because he loves you soo much, why doesn't he?
that woman's expressed goal is to have those children become more more fanatical than the muslim kids? she wants these kids to be ready to die for christianity? i cant grasp this concept. why cant christians specifically teach the loving message of jesus?
i think its because they have no love. the words of jesus are based on love but the roman religion based on him is rooted in power. regardless of whether protestant or catholic its all about control. there is no room for love left.
wow.... "let this power point presentation work in the name of jesus..." How f..up is that???!!!!
I agree with a comment with "child abuse" statement.. I mean, these children were crying every day in that camp, what's good about that???
If they were crying they hopefully recognized that there was something bad going on. The ones who cry are likelier to grow up with their heads intact than the ones who were laughing and cheering.
So if i love everyone and treat people as i would want to be treated,BUT i dont believe in god, does that make me bad, or a sinner or evil?
This is just an awakening to the reality in this country that their are people who are as closed minded as the devil they preach against. HEY RELIGON, GUESS WHO WINS BETWEEN TRUTH AND GOD.
I thought of a way to test someones true faith, I will even play along... In this challenge I will go a month of religion by studying the word of god and going to church as much as possible,hey ill go every day why not, and if i do this anyone claiming that god can save you, they have to go a month shooting dope(heroin) and see if he saves you. I will guarantee that at the end of that month I will be back to my beliefs and they will be a junkie unable to kick.If that persons belief is as strong as they parade it to be, than prove it!
one word.
Indoctrination
These kids are young and naive they will believe anything you tell them. Hell, tell the girl there is chocolate in side the bowling ball and the only way to get it out is to get a strike she would believe it as she thinks jesus was real.
It's receive, not 'recieve.'
I personally find it hypocritical of you to call someone you have not even seen a 'carnal mind' when you guys are supposed to love them, since they are all supposed to be your neighbors. But then bible contradicts itself often, so why shouldn't you? :]
This film saddened me. It would be wrong to highlight and focus on certain individual’s inflammatory comments as it would also be wrong of me to quote contradictory passages from the bible, but I found various parts of the movie to be equated to child abuse. What ever religious beliefs a person may have surely the protection of the innocence of children is paramount to a peaceful coexistence on this world. Surely if we believe the “Enemy” has bigger weapons than us shouldn’t we just make our enemies our friends rather than creating bigger weapons of destruction where no one can win?
>It would be wrong to highlight and focus on certain individual’s inflammatory comments as it would also be wrong of me to quote contradictory passages from the bible...
Why would it be wrong for you to do either of those things? What could be wrong with pointing out contradictions in a book upon which hundreds of millions of people base their lives? And why should you not direct attention to some of the horrific attitudes and comments in this which are, as you go on to say, child abuse?
> Surely if we believe the “Enemy” has bigger weapons than us shouldn’t we just make our enemies our friends rather than creating bigger weapons of destruction where no one can win?
This is, with all respect, highly naive. How do "make" somebody your friend? Particularly somebody who hates you?
The world avoided a nuclear catastrophe between the USSR and the USA precisely because they each had a powerful nuclear deterrent, not because they were "friends".
It is so good to see these children being raised up in the truth. The carnal mind cannot recieve the things of the spirit, so I do not expect everyone to understand this.
This is the most disgusting movie I have ever watched. I can't wrap my head around how hypocritical these people are.