Four Horsemen
As an elite class rules with unparalleled power and unchecked corruption, and a general population sits narcotized by a widespread sense of apathy, America seems doomed to fall as many other empires have done throughout history. So say the filmmakers behind the award-winning feature-length documentary Four Horsemen. This compelling film provides a thorough diagnosis of the country's massive societal and organizational ills, and offers several thoughtful remedies along the way.
Are we really experiencing the death gasps of the American dream? As a means of comparison, the filmmakers set forth the blueprint of Ancient Rome's demise. This tumultuous period was characterized by a growing disparity between the rich and the poor, unabated abuses of power, a debasement of currency, and a desire among the masses to be controlled. Sound familiar? While some of these comparisons presented in the film are downright ridiculous - are celebrity chefs really a sign of America's oncoming apocalypse? - much of the analogy rings true and resonant.
This is not a religious documentary, but the disaster it outlines is almost biblical in its scope. The four horsemen of the title refers to US-led financial wrongdoings, escalating violence, deplorable conditions of poverty, and looming environmental catastrophe. The film contends that the driving force behind this doomsday plot is the new morality in America: money. The country has gone far afield from a true free market system where wealth is shared and benefits all. Capitalism may be on the brink of extinction. Today, in the midst of massive deregulation and corporate greed, the country's financial institutions are operating only in their own self-interests. Politicians are owned by corporations, and the wars they wage are merely vehicles to drive profits.
In the film's estimation, the real threat lies with an American public that generally accepts the misinformation they're fed without question or protest. Millions have lost their homes and life savings, and their children are being killed in unnecessary wars. Are the American people fearful of taking a stand, or simply not understanding of the complexities at play? Whatever the reason, Four Horsemen hopes to educate this audience, rally their collective outcry, and inspire a movement for change.
Directed by: Ross Ashcroft
Humanity evolves driven by a basic and insatiable need for pleasure and comfort in a material world revealed to us through our senses. First we seek basic food, shelter and sex in order to survive physically as other animals do. Then we desire wealth to ensure our survival without expending as much effort as before. Once wealth is accomplished, we seek power and control over others and become as parasites feeding off the labor of others.
Unless we evolve to a state of consciousness that perceives a spiritual component to our reality which exists beyond that perceived by our 5 senses we will fail to achieve our potential as human beings and destroy ourselves.
Great documentary! It’s hard to know how to incentivize the ‘winners’ in this game to change their tactics (as if it’s played all the way out everyone loses).
the human animal has taken the organism's need for acquisition in order to feel secure to an absurd level which threatens to destroy life on earth as we know it. Can the species overcome this need before it destroys itself and all complex life along with it? Who the **** knows. But the fact that it is on the precipice may initiate the change. We have to be on the brink in order to have the will to change.
And they're even lying in the docu....
One of the best documentaries on economics I have seen. Highly recommend this to anyone who is interested to know the problems facing the human society. The philosophical approach to explaining the ills of human society is amazing.
RICH people LOVE their money- and are LOATHE to share it.. it really is that simple, from the top down... I have yet to meet one rich man, who could do something nice for nothing; and who does it, out of compassion when asked.... all expecting you to 'earn' your dollar, whilst they sit and count their profits... hypocrisy rules, why does anyone expect poverty to ever be eradicated under a regime this brutal?
Bravo
Our government and corporate masters do not want us to succeed individually. Succeeding individually is not mutually exclusive to having good bonds: look at Star Trek for example. The problem is we're not allowed to achieve our individual successes, we are only allowed to strive for them. After a number of lessons, Learned Helplessness is complete and the Masters like it that way - nice complacent cogs to boss around and exploit for pleasure and profit while we exist and then thrown away or replaced with cheaper labor - forcing us all to become sociopaths in order to "get" money. It's all baloney.
We do not have a flawed democracy as much as we have a democracy that has been tied, gagged, bounded and rapped by capitalism - a twisted and perverted system that has greed and poverty built-in. CAPITALISM is Las Vegas in 2 piece suits. A pyramid scheme (it's on our dollar bills)! The House (1% percenters) always win. They've paid (lobbyists) to win. FOR THEM MONEY rules NOT life, decency, honesty, morality, community, race, religion, greed, culture, kindness, unity or compassion matters. ONLY MONEY TO BUY POWER AND CONTROL.
It's sad that these "men of industry" (Ha!) see the majority of the American population as a bunch of ignorant fools!
Don't blame the baby boomers...put the blame on crooked business owners and politicians.
Things will only change for the majority of the people when we demand the system of capitalism be replaced with something that works for more than the 1% while 99% of the population struggles!
What kind of system would you want that only works 1% of the time? Your water sanitation system only working 1% of the time? You're medicine working only 1% of the time? You car brakes working only 1% of the time? Why would you want a government or business that only works 1% of the time? CAPITALISM (1%) is the very OPPOSITE of DEMOCRACY (99%)!
One of the hidden propaganda objectives of this doc.,is to worry you about overpopulation.
Having read most all of the comments thus far, it is clear most people see/hear what they want, very few see what is.
Skipping the several falsehoods presented as accepted fact or knowledge and going straight to the easy in concept solutions, so many prefer to avoid, because of what they require them to do, even though it is really so very little, even that is thought too much. Not only do they want someone else to give them money of high value, they want someone else to solve the problems they created by doing nothing.
What would happen if there was NO govt? Suppose you had a clean slate and could design something reasonable. Is it reasonable to take from one group and hand it over to another group? Or does that cut the legs out of the incentive for both groups to do anything? Those who forever whine about the poor and needy, set you emotions aside for a moment because they can be taken care of, but not by creating more govt programs for them (more govt).
[The usa has done that for over 60 years, the poor keep voting democrat and the result is more govt and more poor people, by design of course, its called buying votes cheaply and pocketing the rest. Republican politicians are equally guilty since they don't stop the BS and devise a workable system. Both parties have been overtaken and have become minions of the Progressive elitist globalists who desire a Communist one world govt which they control.] There is not one thing stopping all the emotional whiners from personally helping a truly needy person. The real problems is that these emotional whiners ARE to greedy to cough up their own cash and/or time. They think everyone is like them, so they decide they must pass laws to take the shirt off someone else back to help the poor.
The framers of The Constitution For the United States of America had seen much more and read much more of history than we see and read today. These problems are not new, (as this docu stated early on). The framers addressed this in The Declaration of Independence, Bill of Rights, and The Constitution. The problem is that selfish greedy people have wormed their way into subverting the Constitution. They hide behind such names as The Federal Reserve Bank, Bankers, Corporations, Lawyers, Politicians, Generals, Military suppliers, Socialists, Progressives, etc.
You cannot fix Economic/Corruption problems without first fixing the Political problems that caused them. You really cannot have so much corruption without Congress and Legislators voting for it and govt agencies protecting the corruptors; without lawyers making too much of it legal.
I know a couple of Legislators, have sat and talked with a Congressman. Some start out good and some never were. They all need to be changed on a similar frequency as diapers and for the same reason. If you want to even start to fix things YOU must see to it One Term limits are enacted. It would be much more efficient to change the House side to 3yr Terms, the Senate side to 4yr terms, and the President to a 5 year term. No re-elections for ANY of them. Lawyers must be banned from Politics. If you want to go into the law, then you cannot be in govt, period. Not a judge, nor a politician, law schools teach the morals right out of them. Never vote for a lawyer for anything, lying is first nature to them.
How can these thing be accomplished when Congress itself holds the power to enact Term Limits and the rest, and are not going to eliminate their own cushy positions?
As always and in every way, the problem is YOU. Until you decide to spend an hour a month gathering together with others to see to it wise, decent, honorable candidates are running for all offices from all parties, in numbers, so someone good will get in, supported by "the people". When you do this the parties could drop away because it will be everybody agreeing to some very basic things. And somebody is going to know the truth about each of these candidates. No more nice sounding weasels slipping by. That is the purpose of gathering together.
Of course you would have to boot out the socialists, communists, progressives, marxists, corporatists, etc. because they have no intellectual honesty (govt causes problems it doesn't solve them, more govt = more problems. lawyers write laws to enable more litigation) nor integrity and would corrupt and disrupt the gathered group. They are forever protecting and re electing the corrupt weasels, because they are "their weasels!"
The proposed candidates "the people" find, would sign a contract in order to obtain the support of that huge mass of "the people" which states, among other things, that they will propose and vote for Term Limits, a low maximum contribution limit by any entity or person to a candidate, Limits on the size of a corporation, jail time for fraud, only the people who are going to fight a war are allowed to vote whether we go to war, all wages and income for everyone in the country is reduced to that of the wages of the war time soldier -- the excess put into a pool for the war effort and their rehabilitation etc. (my take on "War Is a Racket" by Major General Smedley Butler) thus taking the profit out of war thus ending most war thus ending the largest of the drains on resources of most every type. Police kill more people in the usa every year than any foreign terrorist has. What to do about the fake news major media propaganda networks which limit the information to what the banksters want you to know so you will come to the conclusions they desire, who make vast profits from war and your ignorance about a great many things? By gathering together much of that "lack of accurate information" will be auto-eliminated. Some will take longer than others to come around, that is as it always is. A similar minded means of taking the profit out of welfare and vote buying.
Another candidate contract would be to get rid of most govt agencies. They are there to protect corporations from you, the opposite of their title which was designed to fool you. As with the Constitution, only corporations and those working for or contracting with govt would be taxed for that privilege or corp protection. What about the environment and lots of other things? This book is long enough but suffice it to say that there are solutions.
All in all this is a relatively easy thing to do, clean house, get better people and you will have better govt and consequently a much better economic outcome for all. All you have to do is rise up from you chair and put one foot in front of the other. If you can't get started on your own get a capable friend to help. That is the beginning of "gathering together." You may also enjoy freedom force international org.
The downfall of western society is assured through the prophetic course of Cultural Marxism that these countries unknowingly practice, the United States more than the others. It just so happens that I live in the U.S., and can see the result of our own brand of Cultural Marxism. So, if you were to google Cultural Marxism right now you would most likely find some alt right nonsense. However, underneath the nonsense is the truth that through an ever growing divide of people and religion, the death of the nuclear family, playing the race card for everything, and many other factors that promised in the prison notebooks that culture was the key to crushing the west. When Nikita Khrushchev said; "we will bury you", he was right.
Love the doc, they tell things so simply!
Though what they were not that aware of in 2011/2012 is seemingly the strong mechanisation and automatization of a lott of production processes and services => how are you going to employ millions of people who are actually not needed in a lot of production processes?
great documentary did any one knows the titile of the closing song
Steve Job's University of Standford address stands out for his reflection on how it was only years later that he was able to "connect-the-dots" of his seemingly random choices that at the time seems to bear no bearing to any of his future endeavours. This video is such an attempt to connect the dots.
I cannot help but be preoccupied with thinking of what kind of world will my little girl be living in. What decisions can be made now to make that future a slightly better one? This video in no way offers that answer but it helps to connect yet another dot.
There are many things to take away from this documentary but what stands out is the message that to exact any change in the socio-economic ecosystem you are part of requires as a pre-requisiste to become self aware. This is within the power of anyone to enact.
The following quote striked a chord:
"I have never let my schooling intefere with my education" - Mark Twain
The video is rich in content for further exploration. Here is a list of individuals interviewed as authorities to support the video's main thesis (in order of appearance and presentation). Hope this helps you to explore the topic further:
Gillian Tett (Assistant Editor - Financial Times)
Colonel Lawrence Wilkerson (Former Chief of Staff to Colin Powell)
David Morgan (Silver Investor)
Prof Noam Chomsky (Professor of Linguistics, MIT)
Satish Kumar (Founder - Schumacher College)
Prof. Simon Johnson (Former IMF Chief Economist)
Tarek El Diwany (Former Derivative Trader)
Prof Herman Daly (Former Senior World Bank Economist)
Max Keiser (Former Wall Street Trader)
John Perkins (Former Economic Hit-Man)
Hugo Salinas Price (President - Mexican Civic - Association Pro Silver)
George Nilson (Baltimore City Council Lawyer)
Prof Joseph Stiglitz (Former World Bank Chief Economist)
James Turk (GoldMoney Foundation)
Prof. Michael Hudson (Government Policy Advisor)
Rev'd Donal Reeves MBE (Founder - The Soul of Europe)
Lord Ahmed of Rotherham (First UK Muslim Life Peer)
Kaiser Bengali (Economist)
Najma Sadeque (Researcher and Journalist)
Prof. Richard Wilkinson (Professor of Social Epidemiology)
Philip Blond (Director - ResPublica)
Camila Batmanghelidjh (Founder - Kids Company)
Dr. Ha-Joon Chang (Faulty of Economics, Cambridge University)
Interesting Sub-Topics (not exhaustive but what peeked my interest):
The Royal Dutch Shell's world scenarios for 2075 Blueprint or Scramble.
Classical vs Neo-Classical Economic Theories
You are a having a conversation that can be best quantified as a classroom of "special needs" children, arguing over who is the smartest. There is NO monetary system that will ever suit the needs of what truly needs nurturing, Humanity. Yes, gold served its purposes, but this cycle has repeated itself since the even before the fall of the Roman empire. People would entrust the "care" of their gold to "gold keepers" who would issue out receipts of deposit, it became aware very quickly that people didn't first go get their gold to then go out and conduct trade, they just traded the receipts of deposit, therein creating the flaw in the system that has repeated itself so many times before where MORE receipts than deposits would be issued out.
The fault of any Monetary system is that it is based off a principle that in order to create wealth, or maybe achieve "greater" wealth, that there is a debt component needed. This is preposterous. We are literally about the enter an age where technology is going to take over EVER FACET of our society. Where having a "job" will be rare if not obsolete. The only real reason individuals are motivated to work particular jobs are they have found a task that they are somewhat good at or have got a knack for, and they have "bills" to pay. When literally every job has finally had the technological/autonomous aspect developed to take over, what job will really be available to the common man to earn this magical thing called "money" to pay for their living? The whole notion of "capital wealth" will collapse.
We can already see how the current oil glut, fabricated in my eye, has caused the price of crude commodities to plunge to its lowest price in a decade. All these multi leveraged tiered derivative debt structures that were built around this seemingly ever increasing price of crude are now collapsing, and the organizations that were built around them are facing the same fate. I find it funny that the best "mind opener" when talking about the monetary system could be taken from South Park, an episode they aired that had some "bank robber" crash land on earth with a so perceived crazy amount of "space bucks" stolen from the galactic community. So Earth's governments diving up the spoils and start fighting over it to which finally the aliens that had been watching come to earth and basically call everyone "expletive" retarded and subsequently isolate Earth from the rest of the universe. Yes, a bit of a stretch, but if you think about it, this whole notion of "debt" is completely made up in our mind.
Even gold, while the argument for its "value" bases itself on that it is rare, difficult to locate and procreate, of tangible and accountable quantity and hard to transport. However any "value" we give gold is still really just an intangible exercise of "consumer confidence." Gold has value because we GIVE it value, I could just as well use dirt to use as money as I could gold, although actually dirt might actually be MORE valuable as I can actually plant a crop and provide for myself with dirt, gold does what for me, gets really shiny if I polish it? The only "item" that has any REAL value for the society of humanity is "intelligence." Intelligence is the one commodity that is a living manifestation of the "time value of money." Taking the same principle of the faulty monetary system that bestows the virtue of a dollar in my pocket today being multiples of more value to me than a dollar in my pocket ten years from now. (this is fabricated due to the fractional reserve banking system and fiat currency which really makes money/currency lose purchasing power over time).
But how much more an education, not to be confused with a schooling, today, as opposed to an education ten years from now. That TRULY is a time value equation manifesting itself, and intelligence can be manipulated as well, as you can see with the corruption of the American Schooling system that producing mindless drones ready to incorporate themselves like good little cogs into the machinery, so once an individual achieves true education and gain a bit of intelligence, it is their moral obligation to share that with as many as they can. Knowing the world was round was a worthless idea, until the WHOLE world was able to see the evidence and understand. Unlike currency, where the more you duplicate it, it looses its value, the more you duplicate intelligence, the more you MULTIPLY its value.
okay rant done
I'm sorry but you can't compare the past empires to the ones today.
where could I get a text version of the 4 Horsemen?
brilliant!
Awesome!
-
Integrate the information in this documentary into middle school and high school curriculum.
-
Corporate Industrial Complex = I am in business and therefore my enterprise is a person in and of itself.......As a person I would like to contribute up to 100 million dollars in your endeavor - How does that sound?!
I can't find the post now, sorry, but no one 'has' to be rich. As humans and mammals, we share with other life forms the need for food and water to live. Moving up, we can recognize shelter and tools as part of our evolution, and other inexplicable things like song and dance which all humans everywhere seem to do.
As the beings that we are, I'd also say that we are driven for other things as well. Unfortunately, our drive for greatness always seems to disintegrate into the chaos of misconstrued and destructive myths- that 'being rich is good' being amongst the most time-defying and stubborn of them all.
At the same time, I think we all 'know,' somehow, without moralizing about it, that the greatest good goes, or ought to go, to the greatest number of people. Freedom of speech and information, health care, education, protection from exploitation and slavery- these are but of few of the values that are not necessary for our digestive system but that we regard as universal rights nevertheless. While the holding of such values dear satiates our heart and provides for emotional happiness, I don't recall hearing any convincing argument that being rich did anything at all for the heart or the stomach. So the question becomes then why do people long for 'affluence?' Is the urge itself a symptom of the disease? If so, what can cure it. Will the human race survive long enough to find out?
The next time we look at what the left hand of Wall Street is doing, we ought to be brushing up on our knowledge of the U.N. Charter on Human Rights as well. Ignored and abused, it nevertheless supersedes all nations' individual constitutions and is the law of the land. A legitimate body of law that waits implementation.
Like it or not, deny it or not, aware of it or not, there is no escaping the essential fact that you are changing the world.
Not really. The majority of people are forced into careers they don't enjoy and lives that do not make them happy therefore they never pursue their dreams and never amount to anything more than the last lifeless body that performed functions for the job they wasted their entire life performing. 95% of all income increases got to the top 5% of earners. Those people get everything handed to them on a platinum platter while everyone else is forced to make hard choices constantly, choices they would normally never accept, but our economic system is structured around taking possibilities away from the majority and limiting people in as many ways as humanly possible.
To change the world you have to be in a position to have an affect on it and most of us will never have any affect on this planet save that which benefits the special class.
In a nutshell, science demands my first statement to be true absolutely. I consider myself an activist, or an advocate if you will (well, who likes all those silly sorts of labels anyway? aren't they for people who can't think on their feet?), and when I hear that that change is relative and dependent in any way or form it ires me.
If you don't like the demands put on you, then why do you accept them? If your job has made you into a zombie just so you can 'get by' or 'pay the bills' or 'send the kids off to college' or whatever else it is that you do, why don't you quit your job and take your life back? Isn't a life worth far more than a job? When you pay the piper, the piper grows fatter and ornerier, and demands more. You endorse that system and promote it. Every purchase you make is shaping the economic structure to whichever way you are intending it to go. Every purchase you withhold is a boycott, a withholding of nutrients of a system you find unmanageable.
When I look at a society like the one in the U.S., though certainly not at all limited to that one, I see that most are poor in sprit, poor, rich, or oligarchs regardless. I see a terrible poverty of very little happiness. And the main reason for the unhappiness is because it is what the people have settled for. It is, in a sense, the collective will. Only the individual can decide to step out of a delusion of a life.
Interesting take.
It's an interesting documentary that I think is thought provoking. I'll note it's biased against neo-liberalism which guides Conservative policy primarily. Still, there's some good information.
This is a thought provoking film. I think people in first world countries should watch these types of documentaries as a counterpoint to the messages they get from mainstream media and culture. Of course, this is propaganda. Most information can be labeled as such since all information comes from the biased perspective of one or a few people. The key is to understand and listen to many biased perspectives from many, educated thoughtful people in order to get as comprehensive an understanding as possible of complex situations and systems.
Why are we not discussing this particular perspective more in our day to day discussions with fellow citizens interested in living a moral life based on deeply felt principals?
you repeat nearly exactly what is said in far better words at the end of the documentary. Your words... The key is to understand...
You may feel this is leftist propaganda "me", however I question those anonymous pinheads too afraid to use their real name in criticizing anything anywhere on the internet. NBC/CBS/MSNBC/Faux/CNN, are all corporately controlled media outlets that never challenge the Neo-Liberal agenda.
This film is almost entirely leftist propaganda. It blames everything from terrorism to poverty in the 3rd world on the West. Typical liberal anti-West thinking.
It has zero to do with "leftist" ideology. It's sometimes hard for certain segments of or society to stomach anything that challenges the long cherished narrative, the US is the supreme force of good and morality in the observable universe.
it is not just the United states, it's based around 1st world nations, even within those 1st world nations where inequality is rule.
Fracturing their propaganda is like saying that everything they know about the world is wrong.
People cannot handle that.
What can the average joe do about this apparent rip off government sanctioned green light to Goldman Saks !!The powerful will always win out over the Masses !It is the way it has been forever. Nothing will change that. The rich control the government all cabinet positions.They will sell out to corporations and the banking elite.Most people will not see this documentary. This should be a must see by all college and University students and their faculties.There is no Morality in the making of money off the misfortunes of the middle class !!The economic hit-men are alive and well !!! They now make money off loans to other countries.Lets hope their will be a shift before any revolution !!!
Stop.
Stop everything.
Stop buying anything you do not absolutely need to survive.
Stop investing in the stock market.
Invest in your own home, your children's future, your personal small business but give nothing to any corporation or bank; leave no money in a bank and nothing in the stock market.
Disconnect from, "their," economy and strangle it until it dies off.
All people who predict the fall of The United States have one thing in common,they are all wrong
All the people who predicted the fall of Rome were wrong too. Until they weren't.
Phoenician city-states all thought they would last forever, they all had the perfect political system, the most money, the smartest citizens...until they had to compete with emerging markets...until the people tore their own state apart because everyone began getting poorer every year...
ALL socio-economic problems can be traced to OVERPOPULATION exacerbated by acquisitiveness and wasteful consumerism.
Lamentably this critical fact was ignored, and remedies were vague hints at tax reform and eliminating fiat money.
I cannot recall whether it was ZPG or NPG, which logically and sensibly states; (paraphrased) "ALL attempts to remedy the problems commonly described as the "four horsemen" will be temporary, and doomed to failure without reducing human numbers".
Ironic isn't it, that generally speaking, the wealthier, more developed a country is the lower the birth rate. The higher the poverty rate, the higher the birth rate. Many of the poor have lots of children as a means of support in their old age.
Therefore, if you want to control population growth, one means is to eradicate (reduce) poverty. Another is to increase the general educational level of the existing population.
Even though I studied Economics at school I always wonder why prices are always going up & always felt that something very wrong with the system we had but never knew what has gone wrong. whenever I think There is something good in Socialism our media and the text book lied to us saying that "socialism is dangerous" & More over I always knew poverty is a man made and it can be eradicated. This Documentary answered many of my those big questions must watch for any students.
Socialism is alive and well if you are rich. That is what we call today, "ZIRP," or, "Bail Outs."
This is a very informative documentary about the fall empires like the one in the west such as the USA. Nine billion people in the world..has anyone ever heard of birth control. Progress they have always called it. Pakistan doesn't even want us there 'helping' them rebuild because it is not helping them, it is self serving. Most of the jobs we have now in the USA are only serving the higher ups. Look at all our SUVs. Who doesn't drive one? We are getting used to paying outlandish gas prices so we can continue to drive. We'll do without something else..or put it on credit. I am recommending this documentary to everyone.
Very Informative.Enjoyed this Doc immensely !
this is worst doc ive seen im trying to figure out how it got good ratings when its all about the consequences of capitalism (monetaryism) and yet it leaves no solution except more capitalism lol i guess it shows the intellect level of the average person if their rating that high when it is basically retarded no solutions no identification of problems broken all the way down with a list of clear solutions oh well what you gonna do right?
Really there can only be two ways to an economic system works. One being, fierce competition which equates to a disparity in income because the victors are the richest and this equates to generations of sustained hierarchies. There is no denying that the rich get richer, they pay little taxes, have access to great money havens, their kids may not be the brightest but their kids tend to get into prestigious schools and obtain jobs a smarter kid would dream of. Then there is the other option of exchange of services ad government control. Humans like to compete and they don't like to be controlled, it's not really a competition when the first generation has passed because every subsequent generation is just a passing on of duties and wealth. Really the best option is a mixture of goverment control and a free competition driven economy.
no. the fact that you believe there can only be 2 ways and they are what you described is a failure to even attempt to organize the world through every imaginable possibility. a 3 possibility could be to identify domination strategies through language thought intent and action and remove them from society by showing they are lesser intelligence destructive and cancerous to society. the result would be no competition no psychological games (money) just a open source world with no division no restrictions. no "exchange" or shall i say double exchange (you give me something i take it but i am required to give you something that you require to take to give me what i require) that is manipulation just like prostitution (money barter trade) it breeds sociopaths and their behavior (competition) instead we would have people advancing themselves that is the meaning of life not pieces of paper with ink or numbers in a bank that is a prison with invisible shackles that follow you where ever you go the makes of this doc never brought any of this up therefore it slipped by them somehow i am not impressed with their lack of solutions.
Yea lets remove basic ingrained human desires and instincts. Ge real, tool.
remove basic ingrained human desires? where are you pulling that from? are you suggesting that "domination" is built into humans at the brain level? what area of the brain is dedicated to this sir? what area of the brain is dedicated to making others suffer in order for you to have something you could have even more of , if everyone was better taken care of? you see your comment shows your lack of intelligence (taking into account all variables) your making cheap shot assumptions while knowing nothing about the human brain or how it has evolved. boo sir boo.
in fact for a human to demonstrate domination, or sociopathiy it is required that they shut down a whole section of their brain to do so , this is evidence that domination is LESSER intelligence than co-operation or collaboration . a second bit of evidence is just looking at the results of any situation where either a. co-operation is used as a problem solving technique or b. domination is used as a problem solving technique, in the latter the result with always be poorer for all participants due to retaliation revenge etc. i have provide 2 solid pieces of evidence to prove domination is lesser intelligence in any situation to co-operation and collaboration. it is sufficient to say that education adults and children on domination tactics and why they are lesser intelligence then removing these characteristics from society can result in better results for all humanity good day.
human's like to compete? not on the whole. i find people are happiest when sharing and collaborating. competition is often fun too, but more than likely breeds anxiety and a lower sense of self-worth in the majority.
If it was such a bad doc why have you been commenting on it? Seems it done what it supposed to do!
i dont know what your saying but read my comment to answer what you asked the information IS contained within it.
Reading the rest of the thread it seems it continues to do what it was intended to do.
if you need to be given the answers, then you missed the whole point.
Are you r*tarded??? It doesn't say capitalism is the problem. It says that we've distorted true capitalism and that we should tax consumption rather than income, etc.
It says we need to get rid of growth by means of speculative bubbles. That we should return to currency that is tied to gold rather than currency tied to politics. Gold tied currency would help stem the flow of dollars or "money for nothing".
It says that we need to correct the ivey league education that focuses on a model of economics that favors corporations at the expense of the population.
I find it ironic that you comment on the lack of education of the average person watching this documentary and giving it a high rating. You clearly seem to be the one lacking a sufficient education to actually listen to what this documentary is saying.
Capitalism is great but corporations have created socialism for them and capitalism for everyone else (which means we pay for our mistakes AND we pay for their mistakes. Meanwhile they are rewarded for their achievements, rewarded for our achievements, rewarded for their failures AND rewarded for our failures).
DO YOU UNDERSTAND WHY THAT IS NOT CAPITALISM?
Your the type of person who perpetuates this insanity because you can't seem to comprehend what is right in front of you - EVEN when it is spelled out in a very easy to follow documentary.
Socialism is still capitalism but in the hands of politicians. It is called State Capitalism.
The moment the government of America bought ailing corporations and pressured them to implement policies that aligned with supposedly political objectives, then that is already State Capitalism. It is unlike China today that owns all the means of production.
There is what we call a Tragedy of Commons that politicians would use because he represents majority rule and can afford mistakes on behalf of the voters who happen to like him.
When Democrat FDR took the initiative to reinvent the economy with a new deal he created the mortgage firms or what has become sub prime outfits. His battle cry was Two cars in every garage! The government imposed progress via household consumption - yet that was not meddling with capitalism but rather supporting the rise of the middle class who were tasked to work and generate capital if prosperity had been financed. This led to the thirst for goods and services that sustained the economic activity of the free world.
However since such politics became dated, even democrats, now embracing environmentalism, ganged up against the seemingly wasteful conditions not realizing that it was their Democrat party that promoted that policy. It was actually good while it lasted but as soon as the initiative was bankrupt of support, the recessionary forces that it successfully mitigated returned with a kick.
You deserve an infinite amount of more up votes.
don't tie anything to gold or silver. how dumb, look at who holds the gold! the only sensible 'unit of account' is each of our individual existences. new human = new paper, simple
YOU can also own physic gold......DHUUUUU!
Nothing wrong with capitalism but the capitalists...Seriously..
I would suggest YOU ARE TOTALLY CLUELESS. Why you bither to comment on something you obviously don't understand, is beyond mr.
This does have some goose-bumpy moments but definitely has a more considered message than other films. I'd argue that the Human Rights Revolution could help abolish the 'four horsemen'. Commitment and Compliance with human rights policies, combined with economic reforms would pull power away from non-human legal entities like companies and states, which are inherently susceptible to corruption.
THIS IS THE BEST DOCUMENTARY ON THIS SITE. BAR NONE.
Ignore the drivel from the TROOLS.
no its worst it fails to accomplish anything , no identification and no solutions this is why the world is in the state that is in to begin with.
You keep going through all these comments saying they didn't identify the problem or the solution. They HAVE. you need to watch the movie again.
They point out all the places where our current system does not follow a true capitalist model. There are a few self proclaimed hard core capitalists in this movie who say they love capitalism but what we have in the US is not true capitalism, for the most part because what used to be an even playing is now so far titled in the favor of a few that almost no one else has a fighting chance.
They also criticize the central banking system and tax avoidance schemes by large corporations. Taxing income and goods should be removed and, in place, we should be taxing consumption of natural resources.
Should I go through the movie again with time stamps and detail every problem they identify and again, with time stamps, all the solutions they tout?
Poverty is not increasing, as shown in a real documentary about statistics of human population and poverty.
The only problem is how to make money out of free energy that is emerging.. ( LOL)
This documentary is trying so hard to become a "goose-bump" one, it does everything to make it self sound fantastically right.
So many things i want to bring out, just to many..
If i was 19years and watch this..i would be amazed..
But going through poverty and richness myself..
I can a have a critical thinking side..
"USA DONT INVEST IN PAKISTAN, you create poverty"
when they say radical things like that, you believe it.
Its false and illogical.
And i truly believe USA is wanting to help poor countries
as USA is governed by REAL PEOPLE like you and me..
Not lizard people, or "born to greed" people.. we all got a soul.
Now dont tell me a guy planning to kill 100 people in a subway
because he is pissed he lost his "farming" work at home is a "understandable" thing.. no..its psychopathic.
Consume, and consume as much as its needed.. then we go to far away planets to find more..and more.. We will thrive!
Dont be ashamed to
ENJOY-CONSUME-HELP-COMPETE-INNOVATE
We are Humans from planet Terra.
Excellent documentary churning the coming collapse. Banking, politics, “terrorism,” resources, complacency… commentary from many including Max Keiser, John Perkins… Concluding sentences worthy of internalization…
“To really understand something is to be liberated from it. Dedicating oneself to a great cause, taking responsibility, and gaining self knowledge is the essence of being human. A predatory capitalist’s truest enemy, and humanity’s greatest ally, is the self educated individual who has read, understood, delayed gratification, and walks around… with their eyes wide open.”
if they so smart, why would they condone the use of money in the future when they show where it has brought us? they bash capitalism then say "oh yeah im a red blooded capitalist"
Those at the top of the power structure would like us to believe this is capitalism, but it is in fact clearly a kleptocracy - a world-wide system of legalized and illegal stealing that siphons all value from below, monitizes it, and concentrates it at the top. When capital is free (for banks and wealthy), secured by governments and other public "securitization," and then used without risk to "rent" us value while owning the process of legislation and taxation - this is the heart of a kleptocracy.
You might be interested in watching the very excellent interview just done yesterday with Ross Ashcroft (Director of Four Horsemen) on the 2nd half of the April 22 episode of Keiser Report. Max (he was a contributor to the movie) is always ready, willing, and quite able to put the proper “sting" back into these issues we've been numbed to.
Economic behaviour is an essentially human behaviour and therefore the problem of economics is at root a moral problem.
Like the good book says, the love of money is the root of all evil.
Even the wage slave in the uS is richer than most the people on this planet. Still demands his minimum acceptable level, his "birth right", just like the rich man, and until he gets what is "rightfully his", whilst he is a victim, an exploited disadvantaged individual, the rest of the world can damn well wait.
Do you know how many children could be fed, immunised, educated, clothed etc. in lieu of the cost of an iphone?
So the problem is greed. The solution is satisfy everyone's greed?
What about giving. What if each person considered himself rich relative to someone else, the enitre population of the world - 1 would be rich. What if everybody gave towards the needs of someone poorer than himself? Oh wait, the truly disadvantaged already know this, and share and help each other.
It is the so called leaders of the free world that kill steal and bitch to get more.
Give more than you can afford as a meditation.
Giving more than you can afford is the beginning of generosity.
end rant
if everyone was rich on the planet we would have been gone long time ago, it's a sad realilty but we need the four horsemen.
Everyone can't be rich the new system they propose works best for the whole society rather than particular group of people so those who provide the best will get rich those who perform bad will get less paid. Don't forget that no system is 100% perfect but our system run by the elite won't work for the common interest
And yet money comes from thin air created by typing on a keyboard numpad?
Yes, the problem is greed. Many though see greed as a virtue. They're called sociopaths and they have infested all top positions in the society from banks sectors to governments, military etc.
It is not an accident. An urge for power is one of the main characteristics of the sociopathic personality.
money barter or trade is immoral. they all function witha manipulation at play "ill give you this......IF you give me this" prostitution mentality this is why world falling apart it is the psyche of a rebellious teen
I just watch a 90-minute documentary and am now qualified to render judgement on the state of humanity and it's governments. We're all gonna die!!!
Today;s gung-ho, supply-side capitalist would like nothing better than to deep-six income tax and replace it with a consumption tax -- and they have all kinds of arguments to convince us that this would be for the best.
But what they aren't factoring into their plans is corporations having to pay a huge tax on every natural resource they consume -- that is, if the tax were based on the true value of those resources.
It's good at pointing faults but not at solutions, imo. It's just a temporary band-aid solution. As long as we use money, greed will exist and I don't think we will get out of this mess. If profit, consumerism and power are still valued, how is anything going to get better? Will people favour green & clean over money, pollution and cheap unsafe labour? Are third world countries going to get better? Is interest, debt and underpaid jobs going to be things of the past?
I would rather live in a world which shares all resources in a green, efficient and clean manner, food being abundant, education available to all... Where Earth is "owned" by everyone.
Mass cooperation always runs a parallel course with mass competition. The problem, the way I see it, is that we as humans haven't innately developed the ability for our cooperative tendencies to overpower the effects of our competitive ones. Power structures erected in the past, due to struggling competition, tend to usurp those structures put in place via cooperation. A loving caring helping individual would develop a gun to allow themselves the ability to maintain that which allows him to be a loving caring helping individual. The problem comes with the next guy.
-
One thing I always found interesting was how the first empire was created. Not by conquest but rather philanthropy. Other tribes whished to join the empire because of the empires philanthropic ways. Tribes did so, and thus it became the first empire. Unfortunately, every other empire since then has liked the gun more than the loving and caring part.
-
And I couldn't help but notice that most of those who were critical of fiat money happened to represent gold and silver interests. Surprise surprise. I don't buy the argument for gold backed currency, gold is useless. You can not eat it, It's impractical as a building material and clothing material. You can't use it to cultivate or grow anything. You can use it in electronics and it's excellent for preserving information, but other than it's fancy good looks it doesn't have much value other than what the markets tell me. Which is why it's about the only metal we dig up and then put back in the ground, permanently. Why not base a currency on a basket of life sustaining commodities? That way our money can be backed by all the things that make life possible. But doesn't that form of money already exist? It's the very form of money that is regrettably being exploited by the competitive.
The invisible men of the Modern Era...
The problem I believe is a general cultural apathy, and those who profit off the status quo know it. We are obsessed as a society with our own creature comforts, and the small few who cry for a new tomorrow by addressing the problems discussed in this film are met with a resounding 'who cares, you're crazy, f--k off.' The screaming of political rhetoric that supports these bankers worldview, a zeitgeist of consumerism, and a lack of social responsibility beyond the most shocking 'crisis of the week' will keep the masses in line. These are not problems that can be solved by the enlightened individual. I imagine only a dedicated army of activists, educated and displaying the details of this line of thought daily and without fail will be the only thing to bring about a public willing to hear it, and even that seems unlikely, because we are part of that system as well, and every soldier feels the spiritual drain of war, especially against a more powerful opponent. I await a tragedy of enormous proportion that will finally either awake the masses, or those who continue on this way dying off because of it. Otherwise, I fear the game is won. If there is some omnipotent Creator to our world, pray he show his presence soon, lest the entire world die of this madness. Yet, I do not advocate sitting on the sidelines, and I hope the army of activists will stay in the fight, continuing to learn new things of this economic epidemic, and doing everything they can to bring our civilization back from this subdued madness. Stay strong, pray if you believe in some Higher Power, and don't lose hope!
BEST DOCUMENTARY EVER!!!
This is well flushed out devoid of mysterious music and weird visuals.
Renegade Economists kept it plain. They Dropped Knowledge.
Future documentary makers need to LEARN from this model.
This doc is the truth about the U.S.A. Are we too for gone to stop this I think so? People do not like the truth!!
An excellent documentary, that so many need to watch. In fact, there was only one position I could disagree with put forward in this entire show, and that is the need for the re-establishment of a gold standard, which is how the elite gained monetary control over the masses to begin with. (give out loans, reduce the amount of gold in circulation, people can't pay back their loans, and lose their property) Fiat currency is legitimate when you are dealing with real value, as opposed to the perceived/speculative value of the stockmarket. This one point aside, check out this doc, it is well articulated with intelligent, and moral ideas for the betterment of everyone!
This was a great documentary. Not entirely sure what the solutions are, but its good that people are talking about alternatives/ways to fix "the system".
I am not sure a return to gold, will solve much. But I am open to suggestions/evidence. *At least in theory it means money should maintain its value for longer*
The next big issue facing us, is government debt. Both the US/UK have huge national debts that need paying off.
In the UK its now pretty hard to find a 45-hr week job. A lot of jobs are now 16-34 hours a week, and then a lot of those jobs are on a zero-hour contract, which means hours are not guaranteed.
Public sector jobs have been protected some what...., but the private sector, particularly McDonalds, KFC, most retail shops and other sectors such as warehouse work are primarily zero-hour contracts. But everyone forgets the private sector is what is SUPPOSE to fund the public sector via taxation on profits and wage incomes. So in the UK there is now a silly position where uni is £9000 a year, and yet most non-graduate jobs are now zero-hour contracts. On top of this, its pretty rare to come across a 23-35 year old that doesn't have a degree. So now even manager jobs at a shop require a degree!. Its ridiculous. On top of that, homes in the UK cost such silly amounts, that getting a mortgage is almost impossible, especially on zero-hour contracts. So we now have a massive chunk of working people who are struggling to get by.
And Pelosi applauds lower work hours because people now have all this free time to pursue their dreams!
Except in a capitalist system, "dreams," cost money.
There is nothing as powerful as an idea whose time has come. The only hope is to keep learning, keep talking - more and more people are realizing the futility of capitalism and never ending growth and accumulation of 'private' property -- and beginning to look towards a sense of community again. Not a lot of people but more and more - I'm hopeful. Keep the faith, babies.
Easyer said then done my friend!! Why because people are greedy sorry about that?
A solution cannot be arrived at without you know who
Interesting doc, but still no solution as always. BTW the comment made by one people in the doc about gold is completely absurd. Gold production is not at constant speed, and it does not and cannot in principle match the economical growth. In the last century the gold extraction is speeding up steadily and now by estimation about 70% of all accessible gold on earth is already extracted. If we keep the current gold extraction per year (in fact it will increase) and rely on it as money supply, it will dry after 20 years. Anther point is that gold indeed get consumed. About 12% of gold produced annually are consumed in industry as coatings, electrical contacts, catalysts and so on, and only a small fraction of those are recycled.
Would be curious where you get that 12% from considering we don't know how much gold is actually being produced annually (china does not report this, the worlds largest gold producer). Too add, all that needs to change is the price of gold in correlation too the currency being exchanged. Gold is just the stick by which the currency is measured, the less currency we need to exchange for gold means the stronger the currency (why at one time $35.00 would buy you an oz of gold). Finally, while pms are used often in the commercial market we need to find replacements and currently are replacing these rare earth metals for cheaper substitutes. too me though the best argument for gold as money is that we only know of one way to create any elements above iron on the periodic table and that is through the death of a rare type of star. Of those elements formed, only silver and gold are solid at room temperature, highly nonreactive to other elements, pose no radioactive threat to living organisms and are ubiquitous enough to be used throughout the planet as a median of exchange.
Just heard on CBC Radio that Obama has appointed a Partner with Goldman Sachs, Bruce Heyman, to be his American Ambassador to Canada.
Stephen Harper must be so excited.
Look out Texas! Here comes the 7 billion dollar Keystone pipeline.
What a tangled web they weave, the politicians, bankers and big industries.
I am not so sure that can you directly compare the British and the Roman empires to the western worlds integrated economy and culture? It is not the same structure. Secondly, what about for example the so-called "roaring twenties" in New York and Paris? That was a time of extreme decadence and wealth and the whole thing crashed. But then the West came back and the US became more powerful than ever. Now there is another downturn, but the global power balance has only shiftet a little. If the West could get it's **** together and regulate the financial sector and create more jobs and bloody stop starting more stupid wars (if for nothing else than the wars tend to confuse everybodies thinking) then the West may even become more powerful than ever.
I truly fear it may be to late. The mere fact that we are suffering under an affirmative action President, who has no credibility or intelligence, proves it. I don't think Americans have it in them to do what needs to be done. When law and law enforcement is prejudice against the people, who will stand up. The elected officials are, as you stated, "all bought and paid for." It's way past pitchforks or tar and feathers.
There is a lot of worthy posting below. It's hard to read it all properly in one sitting. I will go back and dot the I's and cross the T's. This over all topic is a crucial one not just an abstract muse.
forget pakistan, obamas doing the right thing!
Why assume the system is the problem? If the problem lies outside the system then nothing done to the system will correct the problem. This could explain why all systems are inherently corruptible.
Very true; These fools are putting a temporary band aid on Bolder Dam. They seek and profess the the right answers to the wrong questions. What there really saying is lets deefrag, (spelling) the present system and hope its enough to keep it running until I'm dead and out of here?
Valtko why is there a constant Edit posted at the bottom of my comments?
Keep in mind we would be saying that all systems are corruptible which means that any system is corruptible. Do you still agree it is very true?
I do agree with you! People don't like govt control. Some people forget, We are the govt. We need govt. control in banks big time. These people are not using their money to crap shoot with there using our money and with no one looking over there shoulder, that's just a set up for disaster, to me. That's like asking all the viewers at SeeUat Videos to pitch in and send me to the casino. You have no idea who i am or anything about me. Why would we had some strange banker our money and say, "Roll the dice"! So much has to be changed!!
not a mod or admin, but everybody sees the "edit" option under their own posts. allows me to correct my lousy spelling quite often, rofl
the reason that empires fall is due to government taxes and gov't government increasing its control. for example MINIMUM WAGE LAWS causes the poor to lose jobs; every 10% rise in the minimum wage causes unemployment of 3%. If minimum wage laws worked, Why not increase the minimum to $10,000/ hour worked?
the more government intervention in COMPETITIVE markets and monopolistic competitive markets. the more the GDP growth rate falls. I am not NOT talking about monopolies or common resources markets. the film is ignorant of what economists are concluding. For example, the minimum WAGE laws have caused a lot of unemployment. Every 10% rise in the minimum wage will cause a 3% increase in UNEMPLOYMENT. If one cannot understand the arguments don't criticize capitalism.
capitalism can increase GDP forever, If you think capitalism cannot grow GDP FOREVER, then explain to me why why commodities like oil and others, decrease in price in the LONG RUN. Here's a bet that economist always win. List ANY 10 commodities, over the long run, a decade say,80% will decrease in price. For example; oil prices on average fall, over the business cycle.
These ignoramuses have created a iaughable film , What country characteristic is common in countries that have created a rich middle class;? it's CAPITALISM. For example, sweden ,USA ,Germany and the asian tigers etc........ For example; HONG KONG has no natural resources and little production. It only has a port. Why does Hong Kong has a rich middle class? Answer, they are more capitalist than poor countries.
" every 10% rise in the minimum wage causes unemployment of 3%"
Ha ha ha horse****.
"Here's a bet that economist always win. List ANY 10 commodities, over the long run, a decade say,80% will decrease in price."
Ok ****wad, youre on;
Housing
Healthcare
Education
Unemployment insurance
ANY private welfare companies fees
Super fluent bureaucracy awarded back and forth to the elite as legalized bribes for selling out welfare sectors
Gold
Locally produced goods, for instance boots
The legal fees required to defend yourself from predatory capitalist practices
Dignity. Oh ****, wai...
Well that sounds good on paper and it's true free mkts correct and monitor there self. However the time it takes to correct a bad situation takes too long and a lot of people are hurt! Like Ross Perro (spelling) stated, "People have to be taught to be good". It's not that cut a dry there has to be a realistic balance between free rains and control, a protection against ourselves! Nothing i have posted is carved in stone! Wide open for input here! Just words for thought?
A lot of hot air but a few key points that make this well worth the time. Scrub away the socialist/communist solutions, along with the moron solutions, and the first solution is revealed. "Eliminate the corporate structures." This makes men responsible for their actions and vulnerable. They can no longer hide. Then true capitalism will solve the rest.
Roy I'm for that! Maybe not in those exact words. The govt. is bought and paid for! Talk about separation of "church and state" how about "separation of corp. and state"!
Look for an interview with Ross Ashcroft - Four Horsemen, also on YouTube.
I really liked this documentary. Very interesting, I'd really recommend it to anyone, since it's everybodys headache
At first glance in the "browse" section, I thought to myself, "Oh no, not another doom and gloom doc. How depressing!"
So I read the comments and they peaked my interest.
I found this doc very interesting and especially enjoyed listening to the speakers, people like Noam Chomsky.
There was a rather strange woman ay 110. who had a beard. No idea who she was and I should look her up.
This doc explained the investment banking system and economics in layman terms, so everything didn't fly over my head.
It was actually very optimistic about the future for humankind. Uplifting at the end. Lots of interesting ideas bandied about
A couple of times the video quit streaming so I had to jump a little ahead.
For a 90 minute video, this gem never seemed too long, and kept my interest.
Noam Chomsky gets better with age.
Ah, here we meet again on common ground, even on Noam Chomsky, at least on nearly every issue except 9/11.
On that issue, I find it difficult to figure out why he insists on reinforcing the officially sanctioned conspiracy theory, though he must have his reasons. There is such overwhelming evidence piling up against the Neo-Cons within government, that it behooves me how an extremely intelligent man like that can't see through the deception. I have to believe he can, but because of other reasons chooses to say differently.
Blueprint for Truth is one of the most authoritative Docs. on the collapses that I have seen, and as David Ray Griffin has said in his works: Only one falsehood has to be proven and the official story falls apart. (paraphrasing)
Sorry to have jumped way off topic. And yes, there was a lot to be gained from that 90 minutes.
Oh I enjoyed your comment. I never worry about people going off topic, no worries:)
Great documentary. So far one of the best I've seen on capitalism.
to use phrases like "democracy" and "freedom" and "rights" in any monetary system is Orwellian doublethink
This may be true but we also need to understand that the absence of a monetary system does not necessarily lead to democracy, freedom, and rights. Thinking otherwise would also be Orwellian doublethink.
try living somewhere without those things.
This is not the doc with Richard Dawkins and his merry band of pagans, you'll have to look elsewhere for that.
On a side note, I don't think the need to have "the most toys" (i.e. wealth) is in order to impress peers but unfortunately, to attract women. I'm not blaming women, but it seems like the current zeitgeist of media and entertainment make many (if not most) women judge a potential mate by how much money and power he has. If you're not a wealthy, successful guy by the age of 35, there's a pretty big chance you'll have a very hard time finding a girl who will "take you seriously". I honestly can't say the same applies to men, because most guys seem to be more interested in the way women look (which is also the product of the current zeitgeist) than in their bank accounts.
I understand the importance of both appearance and stability in terms of evolution, natural selection and the propagation of our species... but these days it is just absurd. My grandpa and grandma's courting days were completely different than today's. Back then it was more about values, religion and family. Not saying that's better, just different.
If we were to separate the notion of wealth from procreation and raising a family, people wouldn't be so pressed to hoard as much money and goods as possible in the hopes of attracting a mate. It would also allow women to stop being objectified and treated like "prizes" of successful men.
I'm sorry you feel that way. In my books, the women you describe are very shallow, and would not make a very good mate.
The women I know are interested in men who are kind, responsibe and hard-working. Of course, being attractive and having a sense of humour goes a long way, too.
Not true. I'm a good looking guy, sense of humor, talented and a hard worker. A lot of my male friends are too. Most of us are either dating or single. The guys that got married early on were usually the nerdy but established ones, the guys with the big bank accounts and high paying jobs. The ones that couldn't get a date in high school.
Women seem to be interested in money with the same passion and zeal as guys that are interested in a pretty face and a hot bod.
Both sides are wrong and this is probably why 2 out of 3 marriages in this country end in divorce. Too many people -- myself included -- are attracted to superficiality (looks, money, charisma, popularity) and not to substance (REAL confidence, humor, empathy, faithfulness, humility, honesty, virtue, integrity, etc).
Could it merely be that divorce is now easier to obtain and that the social stigma has gone down? In this respect, could it be that couples have begun to realize that their needs can change over time?
You speak entirely in generalised assumptions, women are not some singular hive mind holding the same values/desires, there are women that range from lazy worthless alcoholics, to artists, to career minded workaholics and everything in between, men being the same.
You need to drop the ego and pretend for a night that you're not funny, or handsome or talented and try to BE the values you think everybody should have.
Jesus christ calm down dude.
I understand your comment and I will agree with your comment but I would change one statement.
Second paragraph. I wouldn't say that women are interested with the same passion and zeal. I would say women are interested with equal passion and zeal. I know that appears nuanced but that nuance exposes difference.
In my books, a man who earns (or inherits) tons of money has the potential to be either a workaholic or extremely self-absorbed.
Not very good husband/father material.
And I'm not saying all rich successful men are like that!
Looking back on my 23 year marriage, we were happiest in the early years, starting with nothing.
Full of hopes and dreams. Working so hard toward our goals.
Accomplishing them TOGETHER.
We were a TEAM.
Exactly! I hope Lenny learns to adjust his outlook or he'll surely look back with regrets.
Spot on.
I added another comment below.
Can't shut-up tonight.
"current zeitgeist"? - Women have been attracted to men with power/status since year 0, something received from the age old role of male as provider, this is no symptom of our current social structure/media... You will NEVER stop wealthy people being more attractive until you wave that magic wand and remove the monetary system so there is no varying wealth to be attracted to.
Courting has always been different for different people, there were gold digging sluts 200 years ago and there are chastity preachers today. Rich people don't just hoard wealth to get a mate, power is its own drug entirely separate from procreation. B. Gates is hoarding wealth long after marrying his wife.
If a woman picks a man just because he's rich even though she knows he only likes her for her body she is objectifying herself and choosing to be a well pampered 'prize' rather than a poor but more deeply appreciated/loved human being. Both sexes objectify each other on numerous levels regardless of any monetary factors.
Lenny...you are obviously youthful and full of naivety when it comes to the opposite sex. I have had the displeasure of seeing things from the 'top' down - the vulgar rich world of hedonistic indulgences (fortunately not for too long). Men see women as objects. Love is a pleasure to be bought and paid for. It is brain chemistry. POWER is what attracts at the upper echelons of society. Its a horrible tasteless place of mirrors and chimes, where the strong prey on the weak...and sometimes that means women preying on older men who are searching for lost youth, and willing to throw plenty of money to get it. Buy and sell, supply and demand...the women get security and spending power of their own...true love never enters the equation. It's just unspoken business.
@bringmeredwine:disqus (and WiseGapist) are spot on correct. THOSE are the real qualities where true love is nurtured...the qualities women look for in a real man. There is no true love up at the top of the pyramid, because true love takes emotional courage and commitment. Up top everything is for sale, everything has a price and nothing trumps the desire for power.
I can tell you this from experience, the higher up you climb the more bland things become to your senses, and so the more you indulge to compensate. Keep it real Lenny!
I like what Bob Hope is reputed to have said, to wit and to paraphrase, "I've been poor and I've been rich and dammit I'd rather be rich."
there is NO shame in being comfortable, Robert. that only rears its head when your comfort is built on causing others to suffer. society with "tiered but attainable wealth" gives incentive to innovate and improve upon what already exists. the lack of that incentive is what doomed the "soviet serfdom" model.
So I shouldn't bet on a stock going down, lest it have an ill effect on those who bet it to go up. So the inventor(s) of the internal combustion engine were bad people because they got rich at the expense of the blacksmiths that they put out of work.
Winners and losers are merely facts of life.
"shorting" a stock doesn't cause others to suffer anymore than earning your living as an oncologist does, or a farmer profiting off the specter of urban starvation without his product. now, tout that stock as "AAA+ prime investment" to the herbs while you short it with foreknowledge of its lack of viability, and you "cross the line". IC engines just changed the parts the blacksmith made for his customers, and the services they offered, assuming the blacksmith had the skills to remain viable. less horseshoeing, more re-babbiting. even those displaced by lack of trade easily transition to production of those same IC engines, as their skillset make them of value to the engine producer, in both production, and maintenance. the petroleum fueled tractor pulls larger plowing set-ups than the oat fueled variety, thus increasing the opportunity for the blacksmith to ply his trade by restoring plow blades, straighten bent axles, adapt and create towing interfaces between tractor and combine, etc. bicycle makers produced the first airplane, their engine built by a blacksmith to their specifications. just north of me, the farrier is still a highly prized craftsman (polo country).
The point is that if I short stock honestly (i.e., not by having inside information or by outright fraud, but by using the same data available to everyone), I have no responsibility towards those who loose their shirts due to their improvidence.
I'm not going to allow the possibility of putting large numbers of people out of work to curtail my endeavors in getting my invention on the market and hopefully waxing opulent. Those who cannot transition are simply out of luck. I have no responsibility towards them.
Let's put aside the question of an honest buck. Would you short a stock dishonestly if you could and if you could what would be the argument either for or against?
No, I wouldn't, for I couldn't live with myself if I did and I wouldn't want someone else to do the same to me.
But they are doing the same to you.
After the Madoff fiasco, I got out.
i guess i saw a different doc than the previous reviewers. "gold is the only viable currency" is a completely ludicrous concept, yet spewed a few times here. "consumer based taxation" as a panacea for the poor is ridiculous to the extreme. the poor spend the vast majority of their incomes, the rich absolutely DO NOT. who will see the greater portion of their income disappear to the tax-man? "taxation of provided by nature raw materials" has EXACTLY the same pitfall. though many of the systemic problems our economic system are addressed in this piece, the "solutions" offered up are just more of the same.
You have deciphered the problems, your perception leaves scant room for rebuttal and well written.
I'm curious what do you suggest we do, have you given this some thought?
I haven't watched the doc. yet, there's enough to think about right here. I'll watch it later. And based on the comments below its got to be a duzzy.
"solutions" that retain the core economic engine will NEVER work, they inevitably just become the same dance. playing the "let's just go back to where we were all doing the best, and start there" card WON'T work, because our "industrial golden age" was built on exploiting the raw materials of those weaker than us. that ultimately MUST lead to the same table we sit at now. as the very beginnings of our US economy was based on the same base of "exploiting that which i can steal from my neighbor" (as well as the true foundation of our political system being one that served ONLY the interests of the exploiting class), genuine "solutions" will require complete abandonment of "the american ideal".
currency: true, currency should be based on some real, non abstract concept. commodities, however, being of a publicly traded, volatile in value status, are COMPLETELY unsuitable. use of gold, silver, corn, wheat, pork bellies, etc merely opens your monetary system to manipulation. the PMs are the WORST idea, as their current value, and volume won't cover the american monetary system, even if we had it ALL. the "gold bugs" promote this idiocy in hopes of a mandated value per unit that will make their piles worth an exponentially greater value.
my vision is to base the currency on "value added to raw materials". what value was genuinely added to raw materials is the next fiscal years cash in circulation, with say 10% added as "transactional buffer" to prevent currency shortages. no fractional reserve banking.
economic restraints: "firewalling" of the various classes of banking (ala glass steagel), with varying CASH reserve minimums depending on the class (lower for an "investment bank", higher for a "savings and loan", as but a single example). deposit insurance for S&Ls, Mortgage banks that ONLY serve homeowners of the single family variety (NO "investment property" of ANY kind, those are commercial mortgages), and "thrift banks". commercial, industrial, and investment banking classes, no such depositor "safety nets". private insurers allowed to issue policies to insure those classes of deposits, but on the caveat of the 70% liquidity rule (insurer must have at LEAST 70% of the value of issued policies as "cash reserve"). NO corporate co-ownership of insurer and banks, or different classes of banks. merging of banks within a class to be strictly controlled, with no "too big to fail" juggernauts allowed.
commodities trading to be restrained from speculative abuses by realistic limiting of both volume, and "exotic betting". the airline should be able to hedge fuel costs, the farmer crop pricing, but the vampire should find no vein to exploit. the same applies to ALL "exotic paper" in the financial world. REALITY must actually reign, not quant based fantasy formulae. stocks to be restrained from "single interest control", "publicly traded companies" must remain as such, to prevent the particularly malignant mitt romney form of financial vampirism.
taxation: multiple tiered taxation. genuine "wages" or earned income on a sliding scale of roughly 0 to 65%, with ONLY those earning over 20x the poverty level paying more than 10%. what is currently classed as "unearned income" to be broken down into groups based on sourcing. pensions, annuities, and other "food on the table" classes to be no longer tied to "investment dividend". "food on the table" classes will be taxed much like earned income. "investment income" to be taxed at 10 to 65%. this will be based on form of investment, as well as level of income. investments that add value to raw materials will be taxed at lower rates, speculative schemes at much higher ones (as they are usually detrimental to the economy as a whole).
services and infrastructure: certain classes of beneficial to society services will be provided by government at levels that would best be described as "no frills". medical care for illness, injury, and health maintenance, but you pay for your own lipo, nose jobs, or "exotic care" (such as artificial means of reproduction). government run hospitals, care facilities, rehab facilities, nursing homes, etc. will exist alongside privately owned "high class care" facilities. staffing will be provided by contractual obligation to work a decade in exchange for the providing of the complete education required for the position, along with a "lower end competitive" salary for the position. dedicated practitioners will be encouraged to stay, but without obligation beyond that point. free decent housing for those in need of it, and those inclined to avail themselves of it. neither hovel or luxury, just decent bare-bones living conditions. water, sewerage, trash collection and similar services provided to all by the state. education provided to the secondary school level to all. college provided with obligation to "pay" for it with community service in the field of expertise (in the same manner as the medical example above). basic dietary requirements also provided. NO chance of homelessness, starvation, or unavailability of medical care.
genuine public transportation, along with the infrastructure for it, FREE, EVERYWHERE. type varying depending on demand, environment, and geology (no subways in south florida, no elevated light rail in "tornado alley"). roads, bridges, viaducts, and other public works provided by the state, but with an allowance for the private sector to ALSO provide them in an attempt to better service, and make profit (toll roads, bridges, private buses/rail, etc).
industry: a nationalized system of "job shops" to provide components and sub assemblies that by their nature are marginally profitable to private industry. by removing profit consideration from the balance sheet related to those, that buoys quality of finished product. similar shops to produce consumer goods we currently have no manufacture of here, preferably in a manner that allows private industry to purchase and finish the product before it can be marketed to the consumer. always with an eye on NOT competing with the private sector, but supplementing it with a method of providing quality at lower cost. a nationalized shipping fleet, tasked with bulk and containerized shipping (an industry LONG gone in this country). a working partnership of public and private industry, driven by genuine market demand, thus avoiding the stagnation of technology that plagued the "communist" systems that failed.
there's kind of a "readers digest" version of my "vision" of a cure for what ails our economy. the shifting of our economy away from the production of weaponry as a form of "industry welfare" would pay for the extra costs, along with the greater taxation of "idled money". the taxation scheme would encourage investment in ways that made "productive money". all nationalized industry would supplement the ability of private sector industry to add value to raw materials, while allowing greater profits on higher quality goods. after a few decades of head scratching, it seems the ONLY viable system that allows for ALL classes in our society to benefit (worker, boss, fatcat, "bum"), and tosses nobody "under the bus". of course, the ideal scheme would be MUCH more complex, but for reasons of brevity i merely touched on a few big points, rather than pumping out 20 pages or so, which i'm certain would give Vlatko indigestion, lol
Do you really expect any of this to be accomplished?
honestly, hell no. i wasn't asked to provide what would be considered "acceptable" by those who hold the throat of our economy. that answer would be "bring back the serf system". "reward productivity, punish parasitism" isn't a paradigm shift our pals at G-S, Dixie Crystals or Walmart will ever embrace, as it makes them the pariahs they so deserve to be. it flies in the face of the economic mumbo jumbo of "we can be a nation of intellectual property holders, slumlords, and servants" our current crop of economists embrace. that would tend to doom the idea in the starting gate, IMHO
Harry this is feasible; In that when push comes to kcuf shove things get done and we are about there. You have exposed major breaches and holes in the system. You haven't put a band aid but redirected the process flow so as to strengthen economic integrity, I'm concerned with, "Incentive", i heard mention of it in the body of the text? Can you elaborate on this?
I'm going to go back and read your post again, I read a lot of it and then scanned in and out. You tacked down a lot of variables and put forth a lot of workable; viable and not to mention practical concepts!
I will read it later when I'm fresh.
Thanks for the input, enjoyed it.
the "incentives" are lower taxes for the productive (incentive to add value), reduced costs through "uncle" making those components that currently give bean counters sleepless nights (incentive to join the "partnership"), stable infrastructure and basic services (incentive to build industry in areas where people actually live), reduced cost of shipping (incentive to :supply the world" rather than "be supplied by the world"), incentive to maximize private sector workforce (reduced cost per man-hour, through the increased profitability and diminished need for "lowest tier" employee compensation to provide for the "basics of life"). there is even incentive for the parasitic capitalist to embrace the idea, as increased production ALONE buoys the volume of currency, thus increasing the pot for them skim. once again, just "readers digest" examples, as the incentives are placed through out the system (healthy employees are more productive, employees that don't worry about a roof over their head or chicken for the pot tend to be more satisfied with their position, etc), incentive to become more educated (pay for college with a guaranteed job, rather than a crushing financial obligation). it's basically a marriage of the beneficial attributes of socialism and capitalism, with each balancing out the negative attributes of the other.
Harry though your post has a utopian connotation it must be taken seriously! Not everything you have posted is finalized and must be tweaked, to say the least which I know you agree too. But just to patch up the old system and reboot won't get it. Much thinking should be given to this! I have got to go. I would like to continue my thoughts I will get back to this later.
i lay at your feet a raw pig of iron, ready to be forged, by more skilled craftsmen than myself, into the tools needed to produce that "utopia". unfortunately, the same pig can also be forged into the chains that bind the bond-servant.
Harry Nutzack for President! No, something useful...
trying to get my hair parted with a barret .50? lolol
You really have no idea what you're talking about, how exactly is all this going to be paid for, you're basically saying all the US needs to do is expand the size of it's govt and everything will be just swell (to the point of being even larger, and even more bought-out by private interests, than it currently is).
"as their current value, and volume won't cover the american monetary system, even if we had it ALL." - Wrong, wrong, wrong. Gold and/or silver can easily cover the US's current monetry base, it's simply a function of price. Sooner or later this will happen and the gold price will truly reflect the M0/M1/M2 money supplies, which would put it at roughly $2k/$14/$40k+ respectively.
" the "gold bugs" promote this idiocy in hopes of a mandated value per
unit that will make their piles worth an exponentially greater value." - Wrong once again, 'gold bugs' don't seek to have any mandated gold price, they seek only to allow people to use what ever currency/MONEY they choose, you know, freedom to choose?
The rest of your response is just tripe, you blame speculation in commodity markets, yet ignore the fact that 'speculators' gain free money from Central Banks who are desperately trying to prop up the banks (who buy up worthless govt debt) and the Federal govt who is broke because of the very thing's you're demanding (FREE THIS AND THAT, IT'S NOT FREE).
I'm not american/or living in the USA just so you know, but i follow the US closely since they're the largest/most important markets currently and your (aswell as mine+the g20 members) are all hopelessly broke and will _NEVER_ pay back the money it has borrowed, so to even suggest that more govt is the answer just shows you're either clueless or dishonest.
'gold is the only viable currency' dosent sound that bad...specially when said after 'paper money produced at will from nothing'
A must see for anyone who wants to know what is going on in the world. This should be mandatory in schools, yes from first grade on up through college.
Superb. Faultless. A rare breed amongst these documentaries. Many thanks for this one Vlatko, I've been looking forward to seeing it for months!
I was hoping that they could find this doc. It's overall scope was very universal and unbiased (mostly) but definitely a great synopsis of the current monetary system and its weaknesses. I did expect some higher order comments though.
Just got back from 2 weeks in the UK & Ireland. I hadn't been there since the late 60's. What an eye opener!
Yeah...I kinda put in my 10 cents on "Class War" (another great doc). So am still thrashing out some of these concepts there. I'm sure some heavyweight comments will flow here shortly. Although Harry is unsurprisingly out front as could be expected. :)
Eye openers can be good...or weren't they?
very interesting docu ...