Do I Drink Too Much?
Alcohol is by far the most widely used drug - and a dangerous one at that. So why are so many of us drinking over the recommended limits? Why does alcohol have such a powerful grip on us? How much of our relationship with this drug is written in our genes?
What are the real dangers of our children drinking too young? Addiction expert John Marsden, who likes a drink, makes a professional and personal exploration of our relationship with alcohol.
He undergoes physical and neurological examinations to determine its impact, and finds out why some people will find it much harder than others to resist alcohol.
Even at the age of 14 there may be a way of determining which healthy children will turn into addicts.
John experiments with a designer drug being developed that hopes to replicate all the benefits of alcohol without the dangers. Could this drug replace alcohol in the future?
I had a girlfriend who is is an alcoholic, Ive known her for 13 years and back then she used to drink wine but a whole bottle in one sitting, nowadays is more like a litre of rum a day, It is a terrible thing, i've witnessed it all, The withdrawals, the cold sweats, The internal bleeding, passing out, urinating on herself, Hiding bottles all over the place, keeping water bottles full of liquor in her purse, No matter what we did, vacations or having a nice time out, she always thought of alcohol and always found a way to get it. I tried everything, rehab/detox, nothing worked. She couldnt work or do much of anything but drink everyday, it took over her life. To see someone you love fall that far down is devastating. after 8 months of this i had to end it, It is so hard to deal with someone of that calibre and try to balance your own life, alcohol is just like any other addicting drug, so dangerous and it will ruin your life, I dont even drink any type of alcohol because of my experience. It is horrible.
My first visit to this website and I want to thank you for your comments all but one of which I agree. It is that the "non-addict will never understand the addict". I am not an addict but, I would like to think that I do understand the addict. I have and do to this day love each one: from my co-workers, church members, friends,neighbors and relatives. I dont pretend to fully understand the addict or anyone else for that matter. I believe you can only understand as much as a person is willing or able to reveal. And, with the addict that is not a great deal. Their defense mechanism is on high alert 24/7/365 even long after they are sober. And, with good reason I may add. Whoever, addict or not wants to expose anything more than apsolutely necessary to such an unforgiving, hypocritical, stereo-typing etc...society? Untill we live in a trusting, forgiving and loving world we will ALL always have our secrets. And, untill that day will anyone truly be STRONG enough to reveal all to even one other human being?
One question: What does "Nobody ever died from giving up slowly!" mean?
In response to your question: Giving up alcohol "cold turkey" when you've been a long term alcoholic can cause extreme withdrawal symptoms; sweats, seizures, pains and even death. The condition is called Delirium Tremens and is commonly referred to as "The DT's". By gradually decreasing your intake, your only probable physical symptoms would be sleeplessness. Although, that obviously requires some serious discipline.
I used to drink more than I do now, this is a very interesting documentary. I had never realized all the effects alcohol has on the human body. Really good film that I would suggest to anyone to watch.
Trust me, booze is the soul mate to the alcoholic. Your whole day...week…
year........LIFE! ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING in your life is centered and
and balanced around the poisonous liquid. There wasn't a day that went by
when I was drinking that whiskey didn't get my full loyalty. (even at work)
I've been sober for 3yrs now and can say I have no need for it anymore..
....but! I know me..I have an extremely addictive behavior and there's always
something to take it's place. Addicts can relate to what I'm saying. There
isn't a AA on this planet that can implant sobriety. You either wake up one
day and and say enough...wake up in jail and be forced to sweat out the DTs
or you don't.
PS. always remember just because an alcoholic has
refrained from booze it doesn't always meen their
sober......there's always something else to take it's
place. So be careful!
The fact that most of us came here to watch it and even question it? seriosuly everyone check out AA on the web - it's amazing what is the guidelines are now for being considered an alcoholic I didn't think i had a problem till i read and watched the video on aa - btw I am a 30 year old professional female - i binged drink every single weekend of my life , but it has now cost me regret , bad encounters and I am better then this
Was really enjoying this - then scene 5- 6 cuts out If i would of read below I would of known this - gutted
ok
The only reason most people go to AA is because the stinking court system makes them. Group therepy doesn't help the physical addiction to booze.
Therapy can and does help people with alcohol issues
I LUV THIS SITE ITS SOOOOOOOO INSITEFUL!!!! <3
it's not the full movie. it's not complete.
If alcohol is costing you more than money then Alcoholics Anonomous can offer a way out.
So can SMART recovery incase you're not into the religious aspects of AA.
Some people can have a few drinks but some people cannot. Alcohol is like a allergy. Maybe you can have 3 beers today and stop but there is a bender right around the corner. This is coming from a recovering alcoholic. Will power for an alcoholic is not enough to stop. This concept is hard for a non-alcoholic to grasp. God bless. If you think you may have a problem please reach out for help. A better life is also right around the corner.
By far the worst of all the drugs that I have ever tried & that is most of them.
Boo!! I drink one beer everyday.. at least. I'm already a college graduate. I have a great life and great friends, and two wonderful dogs. no kids yet, but I really don't think my drinking habits will have such a GREAT impact on my future years.
my buddy would have said the same thing, except that now he's still saying the same thing but now it's a bottle of wine and a six pack a night... slippery slope my friend.
I love beer too!! I'm actually drinking one right now... while watching the doc XD Anything in excess is BAD, but when you can control yourself by saying "that's enough for me", then you can do whatever you want.
i love beer
To everyone in this thread, hope you are having a great 2011, just popped back to say hello, to those that have quit, bravo, to those that are struggling, hope you make it.
xxxx
Wine has been my best friend, worth enemy since my teens. A paradox I’ve been fighting for years. One of the very odd things about my drinking habit is that I am actually allergic to it. The more I drink the more I sneeze.
One thing is for certain, I do show signs of dependency. The preparation to that glass of wine, turned bottle is the aim most days, between excitement and regret. -Am I an alcoholic? Yes and know - Yes because like a junky I constantly deceit the true dependency I have to the rewards. Know because although I am dependent I am also manageable.
The older you get the more vulnerable you become. I would like to drink less.
Durin watchin this doc i was intreaged by the whole programe and relate to most of what was said!I myself have bean fighting my deamons since 14 to 15 years old and now at 24 with 2 kids am still into most drugs mostly drink!! I stopped drinking with graet difficalt for 10 to 12 month but started getting a herion habit then i knew i was going to loss everything so went to a doctor n that done shit sent me to rehab which is not the place to be!!! at this moment in time i love my life at full but am struggling to stop the addictive personallity !! i will try more help n addiction programs as b4 !! thnx for the documentry xx
i so much want to be normal for myself 1st my kids 2nd ??
@Randy:
However appealing your theory seems, It has some mayor flaws. First of all it would take considerably longer time then a couple of thousand years for evolution to make any difference like that. Second, as alcohol makes you dehydrated, drinking it against thirst it pointless, u also need clean water to even be able to make beer AND last, our livers are not strong and do not handle alcohol well. It differs from person to person and a lot of factors but there is nothing physically healthy about drinking alcohol so what ever. The only healthy aspects of drinking whine are the anti-oxidants in it and has NOTHING to do with the alcohol.
Getting pissed might be mentally and socially healthy and probably helps keeping us sane at times, but its hardly any good for our bodies.
Alcohol kills slow and weak brain cells.
interesting doc. you tards on this comment thread are a bunch of self-righteous, overly opinionated slops with some sort of entitlement to a hegemonic position on the behaviors and justified prejudices of others. survival is first. disappointing discourse here. get it together, fools.
SimonTheSorcerer,
You are interesting:)
Has anyone watched "Making A Killing: The Untold Story of Psychotropic Drugging"?That was a real eye opener also!I have a lot to think about.I love Documentaries!Like logic said...knowledge,we need knowledge.It's our most important weapon.
Logic,
"I gave up smoking and now I have cross addicted to alcohol. I don’t have one or two *insert addictive substance or process of choice*. One becomes two become four becomes eight. My brain is imbalanced and requires constant emotional stimulation. If I don’t get it one way , I will get it in another! It’s amazing that many of us addicts live a relatively normal life; we work, are intelligent people, have a family… We just know how to hide it well due to a lifetime of being in a depressed state when not partaking in our mood altering activity of choice."
You have it all so down Pat and say it in a way I understand all too much.great insight to say the least.I said my previous rude blurb because I thought you were just repeating over and over in your comments......then I actually read everything.You certainly have a handle on what it's like to be an alcoholic.I was wondering..how can you have a drink without smoking?That would drive me nuts!Again my apologies.I think I've killed a few brain cells in drinking career.
@JS
You are so right!It is a passionate subject.I have so much to say that I don't know where to begin or end.I appreciate your honesty.The strange things I often say to myself are"If I quit drinking,who will I be?"What will I do to fill my "drinking"time?How can I still have the same friends if they are still drinking?Can I handle all the things that I'll have to finally admit to(the things we don't like to think about).It seems like so much freakin work!Much easier just to stay on my liquid path.I'm so glad to have watched this DOC and found this comment forum.It feels good to let it all out.And here,trust isn't an issue.
All The Love,
Kelly D
P.s I have been sober five and a half years. (I am a female).
I completely understand what people have had to say about not being able stop once they start, and I didn't get sober in isolation - I went to others for the benefit of their experience and had to take actions my head fought, but that my body and then my head benefitted from.
I wish anyone with the compulsion to drink, and the obsession with drinking the very best of luck and hope you can get the release needed and support of others.
:D Its all good K-D x
Its a passionate subject isn't it?
My apologies people:)LOL @JS!I guess I was overwhelmed by all the words!Meanwhile I had quite a bit to say myself.Again.sorry!
Good luck Js - keep fighting it x
Nicely put JS. :) I enjoyed reading what Logic Had to say.
For those that cannot cope with more than 145 characters in each contribution - there is always twitter...
@K-D
How does Logic discussing or commenting on a comments area stop other people speaking? When you click on this page do you get a pop-up that says "Sorry we are unable to accept your comment at this time because Logic is contributing"?
No one has to attend to their contributions, and they are not the only one saying things. If they were needing to "say it all" they would surely send themselves emails and not come to a public message board that others can contribute to.
They are using this page for what it is intended for. I don't get your problem, but enjoy... :)
@ myself, K-D, and anyone interested in the nature of addiction,
I hope that this message finds you well and I thank you @K-D for your sincere attempt to describe your addictive outlet of the current moment, alcohol. You hit the nail on the head when you talked about addicts in the family making you more predisposed to addiction and also about the addict having an imbalance in the emotional centres of the brain, more than likely genetically inherited. There is nothing the addict can do about it; the non-addict will never understand us and we will never understand them.
The choice of addictive outlet is pretty unimportant in the sense that you can give up drinking and cross addict to 'recreational drugs', give up drugs and start gambling, give up gambling and start obsessive sexual activity. The cycle and requirement of an addictive outlet is the main pleasure incentive for the addict. It is more than likely due to our base levels of brain chemical release being lower and as such not as effective as people who are 'normal'.
The 'solution'? As you mention is not an easy one! Due to the inbuilt genetic predisposition/requirement for an addictive outlet; be it substance or process, there is always a danger to cross addict when giving up the current drug of choice and a real possibility of multiple addictions when giving up fails. Another danger is societies tendency to consider nicotine as a safe substitute and prescribe other 'safer' drugs to counter-act the effect of the drug being given up; Methadone for heroin; patches for cigarettes; and so on. For an addict this type of 'help' is bizarre and not helpful. It's like giving a child a shotgun. The ONLY way to get the full emotional benefit is to give up ALL addictive substances and processes. To achieve this, help from a third party is absolutely essential.
I gave up smoking and now I have cross addicted to alcohol. I don't have one or two *insert addictive substance or process of choice*. One becomes two become four becomes eight. My brain is imbalanced and requires constant emotional stimulation. If I don't get it one way , I will get it in another! It's amazing that many of us addicts live a relatively normal life; we work, are intelligent people, have a family… We just know how to hide it well due to a lifetime of being in a depressed state when not partaking in our mood altering activity of choice.
The key is knowledge! All addictive processes and substances when used by addicts act as an emotional substitute; feeling good, have a cigarette/drink/...; feeling bad, have a cigarette/drink/…; just got laid, have a ciggy/drink/…. Didn't get laid, have a drink/ciggy /… For the addict, the full effect of emotional independence is gained by giving up ALL addictive substances and processes; only then, can we get the benefits of an emotionally balanced life, that others take for granted.
According to some sources 10% of people consume 50% of the drugs! So this is a good estimate for the number of addicts out there. It's not our fault that we are addicts ( having a genetically inherited imbalance in the emotional centres of the brain) but it is our fault when our addictive outlets negatively affect others. Incidentally, just because a condition is genetically inherited doesn't mean that nothing can be done about it. Many people have eye correction surgery or glasses to correct genetically inherited eye conditions.
If you are not an addict, enjoy your 'safe' use of drugs! For the addict, I'm afraid that complete abstinence is the only way to get the full benefits of an emotionally balanced life. Self realisation and understanding of the problem is needed and 3rd party help and support is essential. Remember. Nobody ever died from giving up slowly!
Quitting cigarettes/booze/... is easy, I have done it many times - Mark Twain.
This just made me feel like drinking!
I'm an alcoholic.I'm 43,female.What everyone seems to be forgetting about in the documentary is the differences shown in brain chemistry.The differences in the part of the brains reward systems and whether you have the variant gene.The brain that had the brightest reward area lit up had two alcoholic parents.I had two alcoholic parents which gives me a genetic predisposition to alcohol dependence,not to mention an environment where alcohol seemed to be involved in all aspects of my life.It pisses me off because I want to be "normal" and I'm not.I don't drink often but when I do,I drink a lot.This has caused immense problems in my life"the worst things that ever happened to me happened when I or someone else was drunk".Call me weak if you wish,I've tried to quit many times.Remember:
alcohol addiction — physical dependence on alcohol — occurs gradually. Over time, drinking too much changes the balance of chemicals in your brain associated with the pleasurable aspects of drinking alcohol. Excessive, long-term drinking can affect the balance of these chemicals, causing your body to crave alcohol to restore good feelings or to avoid negative feelings..........it sucks.
@JS
THanks :)
Simon, I wish you all the best.
Well I thought I write a follow up since I last commented I quit cold-turkey. It works out so far with occasional relapses but Im in control now 90% of the time and even a relapse binge is just 4-5 beers not the end of the world. It was the latest in a long line of addictions for me hope this was the last I luckily have no medical symptoms whatsoever apart from slightly high blood pressure.
Psychologically it is another thing constant chronic fatigue, depression, insomnia , panic attacks feeling s@#$ overall and being extremely bored with the world so called "real life". But that was the reason behind all of my addictions to begin with. Well I can't complain my situation is better than most ex-alcoholics so there is no complaining for me and I will always have the Internet as a refuge for me. Have you noticed how beautiful the film American Beauty is when you have depression especially the ending.....
9 times out of 10 its because i've drunk to much, fallen asleep early, woke up in the middle of the night, that i spend the hours til sun rise reading the posts on this site.
Great reading everyone's thoughts on booze though. I have a friend who always says 'reality is an illusion caused by lack of alchol', he is Irish as well.. has many saying come to think of it, mmm.
AA is not a cult. It is not a christian cult. Christians are not banned from it, nor are athiests. It neither fits into the criteria of a cult - nor is it Christian. See basic literature for clarification. This is stated at the beginning of every meeting. So to he individual that claimed it was, you are no more an authority on AA, than the christian persons that upset you. xx
You're right it's not a religion (not officially), just very very very much like one, and if you don't admit that you are delusional. And as far as it being a cult goes well... I won't say it is but... I won't argue against someone who says it is, because I'll lose that one. I was in NA, they only accept atheists if the athiests converts to believeing in a "higher power" outside of them self. Once they do that, they're no longer an athiest. The foundations of AA - under close observation - become an oxymorn.
Okay...is it just me or is the filmmaker quite a pretentious, self-absorbed kinda guy? The point of his film is well taken but he's tough to like. Hard to believe that while he refers to himself over and over as "an addictions specialist", he lacks even a basic knowledge of alcohol. Amazing!
me too guys
...There is an old Irish saying, "The liver is a muscle... you have to work it!"
LOL!
I humbly thank you, trevor.
Incidently, did you read the recent news story, (I make no claims to its veracity, as I read it on the internet), that a University is studying Ozzy Osbornes epi-genome?
They are trying to understand why, after 60+ years of hard drinking and drug abuse, that he has no liver, kidney, prostate, or heart problems of any note...
There have been studies that seem to show Western Europeans being more tolerant to alcohol than other human tribes with no early adoption to fermented beverages... but...
This could prove interesting, eh?
@Randy:
"Absolutely. You know why? Because, geniuses and great artists, (usually one in the same), see the world differently and speak a different language than the rest of the mediocrity with they are surrounded.
They have no one with which they can relate, they feel straight-jacketed and bound by conventions… *sigh*"
This pretty much sum up exactly how I feel, and that's not to say that I am any kind of genius or artist. I feel like I'm at a loss as to why people do the things they do and there is a perpetual feeling of disconnectedness from modern society. Drinking gives me a chance to feel normal and connect with people on some level; for me this is difficult to do while sober. I do drink too much but, luckily for me, it has not gotten in the way of my academics or career.
On a side note: Randy, your posts are insightful and funny to boot. The documentaries are always interesting and the conversations which follow provide great feedback, thank you!
I feel so lucky to have embraced the Baha'i Faith. As Baha'is we are not allowed to drink alcohol and I feel that this has served to protect me from myself. If there were not a red light on alcohol consumption for me then I could see that I might also have over-indulged and be living with the consequences.
I have seen those consequences with friends who drink, my grandparents who died of alcohol-related diseases further to prolonged consumption and friends of friends who have died further to alcohol-related road traffic accidents.
In the Baha'i writings we are told that:
"It is forbidden for an intelligent person to drink that which depriveth him of his intelligence; it behoveth him to engage in that which is worthy of man, not in the act of every heedless doubter."
"The drinking of wine is, according to the text of the Most Holy Book, forbidden; for it is the cause of chronic diseases, weakeneth the nerves, and consumeth the mind."
"I hope that thou mayest become inebriated with the wine of the love of God, find eternal bliss and receive inexhaustible joy and happiness. All wine hath depression as an after-effect, except the wine of the Love of God."
anyone have any idea what the drug is near the end of the documentary? they never give a name, or even a class for it.
@SimonTheSorcerer:
I "cannot" help you, you can help yourself though as I did, if you think it is to hard to do it yourself, than "do" contact AA in your area, see your doctor, or at least talk to your parents, and ask them for their help. That is as far as I go to give advice, am not qualified to go any further!
@Achems Razor
Hope you dont mind I would like to get in personal contact with you my drinking "habits" seems out of control and my parents threateaned me with eviction. Maybe you and your expereience could help me . Thank you a hopeless "maybe" alcoholic. Please help me if you can!
@ Randy
I spend every day surrounded by bolloxology and people trying to sound clever. I watch the docs in bed at night and read the posts. I dont think many get out much on here ha ha. Your posts are quality dude, your a funny man (even better when your cranky) keep up the good work!!
@rich miller
Thank you, sir...
But, I must admit, there have been times when I was in a cranky mood or someone really said something wildly insipid, that I have posted some pretty bone-head things that I regret...
However, again, thank you!
yet again randy kicks arse.. i couldnt even be bothered with the doc, to busy reading these lol
randy you freekin alien you rock!!!!!!!
(anyone who really wants to stop drinking should read the late evan tanners blogs 'believe in the power of the one' rip)
do i drink too much?
no, but i do smoke too much. i'm hoping the MA mettings will help that though. :)
heather,
would just like to alter your last sentence.
"when you REMEMBER how to have fun without it i think it's a wonderful thing"
we all had fun, social, pre-drug experiences.
those of us with dependancies must rediscover the ability for unadulterated elation.
for me, chooseing to not drink often is beacause of health reasons. Simply it is very unhealthy to put it in your body. I feel the same with processed foods and meat and stuff. although there is a limit they put for men and women (1 for women 1-2 for men a day). In general it is bad for our bodies. That is something I keep in mind before I decide if it is worth the fun of haveing some drinks. I am 20 year old attractive girl and ofcourse i am confronted with the options to drink and party often. I even dated an alcoholic and drug addict for a few years. I was able to be surrounded by that, but not have any myself. I think watching the damage it was causeing to the lives of the people around me and to myself, caused me to want it less in my life. I do like to drink more the the recomended amount when i do, but I don't drink often. I have learned how to go out and be around others drinking and not drink myself. Wakeing up the next day feeling refreshed and healthy and still haveing had a good fun time. I feel many people my age forget how to have fun without alchohol being involved. Thats what i find sad. People forget how to do anything without it. When they don't have alcohol in the picture they just have no idea what to do with themselves. When you learn how to have fun without it I think it's a wonderful thing.
I hate drink. My mother and father were both chronic alcoholis i suppose thats why i dont drink and i'm IRISH! haha
I agree with some of the others here on AA being very cultish. Any organization that tells me I have to have faith in some sort of higher power to help me overcome an addiction is asking me to replace alcohol with another crutch. It's also a complete violation of my own personal beliefs to put faith in some sort of higher power to help me when things become difficult.
@Blah
Indeed, there have been many primate alchoholics in human captivity over the years...
Monkeys, apes, humans... no difference...
So...Monkeys love cocktail ic
@entropy
Absolutely. You know why? Because, geniuses and great artists, (usually one in the same), see the world differently and speak a different language than the rest of the mediocrity with they are surrounded.
They have no one with which they can relate, they feel straight-jacketed and bound by conventions... *sigh*
Also, as the brain LOVES the sugars created by alchohol, it goes into overdrive, (for a short period until it runs out of the brain chemicals that create inspiration...), and creative and keen insight is possible. That is not opinion, that is science.
The price for that is high, ask Hunter S. Thompson...
But, yes, you are not wrong, my friend!
@LarryMoe
It takes a weaker mind than an addict's to make such a broad generalization about all addicts.
Every addict I've met was always very intelligent, often compassionate and/or artistic.
@Achems Razor , @Randy okay thanks
@SimontheSorceror:
How I quit? well it was either that or die, I suppose.
Was in the hospital so many times the head nurse came up to me one day and said are you going to keep on drinking and coming in here every month? Or do you ever plan on quiting?
I looked at her and said, you are right and said I will quit right now! I guess at that moment had a flash, that cemented my resolve to quit.
One thing that I have going for me is that I have good genes, became healthy again, I think one thing that helped me is have took martial arts for 12 years prior to my drinking.
I did quit, had craving for a couple of years, was a dry drunk for a while, finally got my personality back, worked hard and almost got back everything that I have lost through drinking. Lost a corporation I had, new house, land, etc: etc:
So let me tell you I can relate to alcoholics, but no one can help them but themselves! Period!
@Simon
I'm sorry to talk out of turn... I know you were asking Achems... who has real-world experience...
I was just talking as a med-student...
Carry on...
@SimontheSorceror
At first it is the altered mind states, sure. But, the brain chemistry is altered, eventually, and it begins to need the drug.
The brain can be a spoiled child, if it does not get what it wants, it can give you horrible pain, even to death, (the DT's or Delirium Tremens, a medical emergency that can stop the heart in minutes), siezures... etc.
But, there is a part of the brain, (the frontal lobe), that realizes that you can not function in the world with this level of addiction. When you feel that is the case, you must dominate that spoiled child, (the R-Complex, or even the mid-brain, in many cases), and focus on the responsibilies that you have to yourself and your loved ones.
When the physical addiction gets too high, you may need Valium, or it's family of drugs, Diazipam or Lorazipam, or more radically Adivan or the Beta-Blocker family of drugs to combat the DT's... but after that it should be just a matter of will-power.
I could go into the European methods of point-calculating addiction management, but I won't because it would be a longer dissertation....
@Achems Razor
How did you quit after so many years? Do you still have the cravings ? Is it true, that alcoholism and drug abuse or any kind of substance abuse go hand-in-hand ? The way I always thought and experienced is that it is the desire for altered mind-states or to put it simply to get high is the problem, not the alcohol itself. So ultimately the responsibility lies with us and our screwed up little mind to make the transition. That's why prohibition ( of any substance ) will never work.
@Achems
OMG! Yes, well if anyone should know it is you, my friend!
WOW! A testament to will power! My Irish spirit tips his drunken hat to you! (LOL!)
Seriously, though, that must have been hell! What respect and admiration I have for you to come through that and still be... ALIVE... and cognisant (sp?), and quite intellectual...
(Although a hippie! LOL! You know I love you!)
Just inspiring...
@Randy:
I am with you on that, also never thought that alcohol addiction was disease.
Good thing to use for an excuse in case of relapse though, to me it all depends on priorities.
That is why could not stomach AA, everybody crying the blues saying that am powerless etc: help me help me.
Nobody is powerless over addiction, my motto is "if you want something bad enough nothing should sway you"
And in case somebody will probably say, well I never drank to much, I was drunk everyday for 15 to 20 years, sometimes 24/7
Excellent.
And he proves my point. Don is the majority in the USA, and he brings it down with his 18th century anger... ah well, as I always say, I will be dead soon. Doesn't matter to me anymore...
Let me just put forth this piece of blasphemy that I had a huge problem with in med school, even... Addiction is NOT a disease. That is a terrible, and silly excuse, that invites disaster to the addict.
And you are NOT powerless over your addiction, that just invites relapse, and more money for the addiction industry.
Let the feeding frenzy begin...
Why should I, or anyone for that matter, research you? Research yourself.
Oh, and you may call me Dr. Randy, btw...
@Don
Hey, if you are talking to me, you are way the hell barking up the wrong tree...
I agreed with much of what your first post said, but my point is this country is drowning in hypocrisy.
You need to do a little research on me around this site, before you jump to snap conclusions...
And yes, sometimes, surrounded by orngutans (in every aspect of life, professionally, in the White House, in the financial sector, media, etc...) as I am, reality is hard to take, and needs to fade away a bit. Yes.
The crumbling ruins of the "stupids-nation" is mostly funny, but sometimes tragic.
And by the way, any of you who think recovered alcoholics are all Christians, sissies or "less than you are" might well consider the long, long list of those who have recovered, rather than your fantasy stereotype you've dreamed up in order to allow yourself to keep on drinking....when you know, deep down, you couldn't quit if you wanted to.
What's so bad about reality, anyway? Can't handle it?
Here's the problem:Our subject notices a strange feeling after taking the neutralizing drug to counteract Dr. Nutts alcohol substitute drug. That feeling of restlessness, irritability or discontent is the same as an alcoholic feels without a drink. A normal drinker doesn't experience this feeling of need, but a heroin addict does. Dr. Nutts substitute does what all drugs do, they create an addiction, where alcohol does not. "Alcoholism" creates the need- and that is borne out by the proven variance in brain function and geneology discussed in this very film.
A "substitute" for alcohol might very well create a 100% addiction in all users, as opposed to the 10 to 15% alcoholism present among the population.
The truest, most succinct commentary is to be found in listening to what the alcoholics, interviewed in half-light, had to say. Their comments were much different than what a normal drinker would say regarding alcohol. Alcoholics are different. I'd be quite willing to bet that if a pill were marketed today, alcoholics would still drink, and the number of pill addicts would balloon. Alcoholism is not just a physiological condition, it is a form of insanity, involving obsessive/compulsive behavior.
WELL DONE DOCUMENTARY! I was leery at first thinking the creator wouldn't be a drinker at all, and those folks are like ex or non-smokers, SLANTED view. I really enjoyed this film, particularly this part; "I'm not in my hangover comfort zone!" That was funny.
@All
in moderation acchohol is a fantasic and liberating drug. Allah bless the muslims for inventing the first still!!
The irony is that they cant enjoy it... hahahahaha
@420 Vision:
Well Hi, Trisha, I,ll stock up just for you.
@Randy
Occasionally drowning sorrows with alcohol is actually quite harmful. I don't know if it's just me but people around me if they have something on their mind and they drink. They will first be really happy and then be sad as hell and do crazy stuff. I think i read an article about being depressed and drinking. Something about being depressed and drinking makes people hyper depressed or something.
I've been a heavy drinker. Drank vodka and whiskey everyday for about 2 years. After that I just had enough of being depressed so I got rid of the alcohol and then I got enough courage and confronted the things that were making me depressed.
I think most people that drink think they get courage and forget about the sad things in their life. But actually it's the opposite(In my own case at least). And what they need to realize is that you can do a lot more without being drunk. For example if you're scared to tell someone you love them. You only do that when you're drunk. Instead of drinking, just count to 3 and do it.
That's just an example, my problems were way different and complicated but still that thing worked for me.
Oh, sorry, you guys may not know me as well as Achems, et al... so I must let you know that I am Irish American, so I poke fun at myself and other Irishmen... even as they would probably kick me until their legs fell off, (we are always fighting amongst ourselves... probably the drink that does it... LOL)
Anyways, my wife loves that joke... I wonder why...?
@420 Vision, (and I, too, enjoy 420 vision...)
HAHAHA! Yes. It does have that effect, although, remember it is an anesthetic, which means it decreases feeling in the "extremities"...
There is an old joke from Boston:
What is the most useless thing on a woman?
A drunken Irishmen...
I like alcohol because it makes me really horney, and want to have rough sex !
@m.z. who wrote:
"There is a bright side to you going to prison, with all that time spent in the “yard” lifting weights man boobs will probably not be an issue. I’m not sure if this is worth the trade off (that being, you’d have to be someones bitch). Thanks again :)"
------------------------
ROFL!!! And also LOL, and all of the other indications of laughing good-naturedly with a clever comment that you kids enjoy on the interwebs, these days!
Very cute!
Yeah. I've heard that all of my long life... "alcohol is a crutch..." and everyone spouts it and repeats it like they are saying something...
Um... if I had a broken leg, would you try to take my crutch from me? Would you heap scorn on me because I was using a crutch?
Well, most people have broken minds and psyche's because life is a debilitating, horrible, mutilating experience and sometimes we need crutches to struggle through it.
Maybe you think it is all peaches now, because you may be young and full of fresh faced promise! Well, life will beat that out of you quick enough!
I'm not saying you rely on it, certainly... but the occasional drowning of the sorrows can certainly make the pain fade away a bit. It is an anesthetic, afterall...
Drink all you want, just don't smoke tobacco, that'll kill you for sure.
Everyone, off course is a professional on these matters. Alcohol is a crutch, or rather what you make of it. Perhaps if we realized why we need this crutch we could make more sense of whether we need it. Transcendentalism is older than religion however, what kind of society would it be if there was no transcendence? Even in the self destructive. We're a masochistic race who needs to feel this way perhaps to actually feel alive.
@Randy
Thank you, that's kind of you to say and greatly appreciated. I didn't get clean for other people; I did for myself, but it feels good to be told that someone can respect me for doing so. There is a bright side to you going to prison, with all that time spent in the "yard" lifting weights man boobs will probably not be an issue. I'm not sure if this is worth the trade off (that being, you'd have to be someones bitch). Thanks again :)
AA/NA is unquestionably a christian cult. Anyone who is a member and denies this is lying to themselves or does not know the history of the program. To be honest, I went to a LOT of meetings at first, and still go occasionally. My experience with the program may be a little different than most, though. I'm from Chicago and we have over 4000 AA meetings a week, not to mention NA, CA, and CMA (crystal meth), so it's possible to find meetings with level headed, non-religious individuals that meet simply to offer support to one another to get clean without being indoctrinated into some religious cult. These meetings, and meeting attenders, are few and far between, but they do exist; at least in Chicago.
I was reading the comments, what interests me is the variety of opinions in relation to alcohol. Some say it’s bad, others say it is good, but I think all are missing the point of the documentary. The point that was being put across is alcohol is a cunning drug; let me stress this point, it is a DRUG! It is no different to heroin or cocaine; just because you can buy it over the counter does not take away from this fact. The film was not trying to be ambiguous when referring to alcohol as a drug; where the ambiguity arises is when people are asked their opinion about alcohol. The comments reflect this, as does the movie, which only serves to give more credence to the films assertion that alcohol affects different people in different ways. You can chose to take alcohol or not, but what was clear from the film is the fact for some people the drug has a detrimental long term affect – hence it is no longer a choice. I am not against alcohol, what I am against is something that causes division and a loss of personal freedom in society.
@Brian
IMO,Alcohol is the worst drug out there,and I wouldnt be suprised if it was promoted by the “Elites” to keep people stupid and brain dead…”
i think there is some kind of creativity linked to alcohol (other drugs too). take writers... but the truth is for one drunken master, there is an army of drunktards
@Achems
Indeed. Discipline and self control is all you need. Very good for you!
@Brian Cohen
I couldn't agree more. Alcohol is definately being promoted by the ruling elite to keep us stupid and drugged.
@Randy:
I agree with you on AA, was not my bag, probably good for other people but not me, Did not do any 12 step program or the one day at a time stuff.
Went to AA maybe 2 or 3 times, to much whining, and woe is me.
Don't need no support group or higher power, dropped the booze 15 years ago, and never looked back.
All my friends are drinkers, moderate to heavy, we leave each other alone on the booze issue.
@RoachInKansas
Hmmm... I like the way you think....
Who cares..I mean we all drink and the only variable that really counts is that genetic predisposition. By the way that also counts as far as other drugs go.Oh and it's not just genetic predisposition but also environment.So what have we learned? Nothing!We are still in the most infantile stages of research.
@m.z.
Well, congratulations! Seriously, getting your life together the way you have done, after so much insanity is really remarkable and admirable!
That makes you a powerful and strong human being, frankly.
Myself, I much prefer cannabis to drink, but, as has been pointed out... drink is legal... and I am much too pretty to go to prison!
I'm serious. With my long red hair and 57 year old man-boobs, (that no amount of push-ups can seem to eliminate!) I would be raped a lot!
Seriously, M.Z., conquering all of your afflictions, and doing well in college now, I must say... you have my admiration.
@Achems
Well, I did write, "MOST" of them... you are the exception, obviously...
But, again, a 12 step program may be what you need to get your life in order. Statistics show that they don't work that well.... generously, perhaps 12%, but if that worked for you, GREAT!
And the "Addiction Industry" makes money so... you know... there is a vested interest in making people feel guilty about drinking-- all the while prescribing horribly addictive and liver damaging drugs, (even WORSE than alcohol!) but... whatever, man!
Leave everyone else alone! Just like any other religion, and I have written extensively on this subject...
@Brian Cohen who wrote:
"Alcohol is one of the greatest evils in our society today.And the saddest and most irritating thing about alcoholics is that they dont think alcohol is a drug—and yet,Alcoholics do more damage to this country than all the rest of drug users out together.
IMO,Alcohol is the worst drug out there,and I wouldnt be suprised if it was promoted by the “Elites” to keep people stupid and brain dead..."
Brian, I come from a long line of alcoholics and I have had my ass beaten repeatedly by nasty drunks. If anyone should be against alcohol, it should be me, but I ain't!
Listen, "all things in moderation-- including moderation..." The worst evil in this world is christianity. Alcohol is a bad drug, but holy Hell... the Western World, and everything we know, is much more credited to alcohol than any other influence.
That's just history. There is no way that we will ever give it up, so just back off.
The reason "Prohibition" was over-turned was because courts could get no convictions... because jurors also loved their booze, and couldn't imagine prosecuting people that just loved a nip.
AA/NA and all 12 step programs are a christian cult.
Get over it.
Stupid British person: "Oi mate, you can't drink a drug, drugs are only pills and smokables for bloody crumpet's sake!"
I missed out on another oppertunity to hang with friends , thanks to vodka. maybe next time.
Alcohol is one of the greatest evils in our society today.And the saddest and most irritating thing about alcoholics is that they dont think alcohol is a drug---and yet,Alcoholics do more damage to this country than all the rest of drug users out together.
IMO,Alcohol is the worst drug out there,and I wouldnt be suprised if it was promoted by the "Elites" to keep people stupid and brain dead.
Youre a twat! Alcoholics are the most likely to consider booze a drug!
@Randy, I, like Achems Razor, am a former drinker (and drug user) and I would like to think that there is SOMETHING worse than me. I understand there are those "in recovery" that are sanctimonious pricks who wish to deny others there pleasure simply because they deny themselves, but, we are not all like that. I for one don't care what others do (my girlfriend smokes a joint every night when we get home from school). But, I've made a decision not to partake since I'm a self-absorbed evil human being when I do. By the way, I am definitely NOT a christian, nor am I associated with any other religion for that matter.
@larry_moe, "only a weak mind allows addiction." I was 12 when I started drinking and smoking pot, at 14 I was smoking crack, by 18 I was injecting heroin, cocaine, and meth. This is my experience and I can't change that and I don't want to change it. Once I was shown that was not how I had to live my life I cleaned up. I am currently about to start (in 3 weeks) my junior year of college with a 4.0 GPA and this is not the action of "a weak mind". I won't argue for or against a genetic predisposition, but there is a social aspect your statement ignores. Some of us don't have an upbringing that is cohesive to learning appropriate social behavior, this does not make us weak minded it simply means we have to be fortunate enough to meet someone who is willing to help us find a better way of life. Thankfully, I was so fortunate, many are not, this does mean they are "weak" or "ignorant".
What an amazing documentary. Definitely an eye opener!
@shelby
In this case i agree
@Larry_Moe "Anyone that allows themselves to become addicted is naive and/or ignorant. Only a weak mind allows addiction."
Talk about ignorance. Do you need a blanket for your blanket?
Even though, am a reformed drinker, about 15 years, do not deny anyone their booze, @Randy: and am certainly no Christian! (LOL)
I personally can't stand getting wasted; I find it uncomfortable and it's not worth it. I like to get drunk, but unlike some people I know my limits. No barfing or hangovers for me, thanks.
You sound like such a little turd when you use the phrase "unlike some people". Just saying.
I think the real truth thats being ignored above all, is the ease of availabilty, even the law does not prohibit the making of alchahol, only the action of distilling (in canada anyway, only because people would kill them selves trying to seperate methanol from ethanol)
I am not at all anti-alchahol, but the simplicty in making this drug, and it is a drug, makes it more comonplace then anything.
I'm not saything thats a bad thing.
Apparently I'm one of those people who don't get much pleasure of alcohol (seems to be also true for my father). It does make me feel relaxed, but then it quickly turns to fatigue/drowsiness. There's no feeling of "high" and no craving for more.
This of course plays out awkwardly on social occassions. I suspect that the "hosts" typically belong to the "alcohol lovers" category, so obviously they make the assumption that other people would perceive it the same way. On the other hand, I don't naturally come up with an idea to offer alcohol to my guests or throw up a party.
Hosts take offense or at least find it strange when I don't share their enthusiasm or reject a drink outright, possibly attributing it to some "attitude" or "culture" type of thing. It would make life simpler if everyone knew that perhaps we are biologically different.
Very interesting doco. I was coincidentally having a drink when I began to watch it. I used to drink 4-5 bottles of wine a week, but I decided to cut down to 1-2 a week which has made my days a lot more productive. I think we should save a good drink for celebrations and good times, not as a crutch for times in our life which are less than pleasing.
Anyone that allows themselves to become addicted is naive and/or ignorant. Only a weak mind allows addiction. Common sense could save us all. Peace. Genetic predisposition is only an excuse.
@RoachinKansas:
"Why does alcohol have such a powerful grip on us?
well thats easy1 they cant break down your door and take you away for it!"
Bingo!
@RoachInKansas who wrote:
"uh…and oh yeah…people like to get high. thats just how it is. how its always been...."
Well, that's true too, of course.
Life is hard. Sometimes, everyone needs something to... make the chaos fade away just a little...
It is quite nasty for folks to deny others these reliefs. And, frankly, those that do? Are just miserable addicts themselves that want to share their misery.
There is nothing worse than a reformed smoker, or drinker, or drug addict, etc... and SURPRISE! Most of them become christians....
Oooops!
For hundreds of years, perhaps thousands, Europe, (particularly Western Europe, including England, Ireland, and Scotland), had poisonous water.
After the fall of Rome in the West, especially, raw sewage was dumped into any available water source... it was nasty.
People quickly associated water with sickness and so... men, woman, and children, drank beer and wine morning noon and night for any thirst they may have felt.
This made for very strong livers in Western Europe, (the Irish say, "The liver is a muscle, you have to work it!").
This is an evolutionary process. There is very good work available for this. You can look it up.
Native Americans, Asians, people of the world that did NOT rely on alcohol for liquid sustenance... they have weaker tolerance and suffer far greater from alcohol addiction.
But! Never mistake that the history of The Western World was sculpted and feuled by booze. For better or for worse, (mostly for worse!).
A quote from Homer Simpson, "To ALCOHOL! The cause of, and solution to, all the world's problems!"
Amen, Homer!