Beneath The Veil
An anonymous woman, covered from head to toe in a blue burka, is dragged across a football pitch and shot in front of 30,000 spectators. This haunting image of Taliban justice was filmed secretly in Channel 4's award-winning documentary Beneath the Veil broadcast in June 2001. The woman was Zarmina, 35-year-old mother of seven. In a new Dispatches film, Lifting the Veil, Carla Garapedian went to Afghanistan to discover her story and see whether women's lives have improved since the fall of the Taliban.
After a secret trial, Zarmina was jailed with her six-month-old twins. They were confined to one room for three years. She confessed that her husband, Alozai, had discovered she had committed adultery saying: 'He said, "Tomorrow I will go to the Taliban and they will stone you to death." That night I was afraid. I hit him over the head with a mallet.'
Money could have saved Zarmina's life. The final Supreme Court ruling stated that her life would have been spared if she paid 10,000 dirhams ($8,000 dollars) to her seven children for the loss of their father. But she had no money. Under Taliban law, Zarmina was judged by her own children. Children often participated in Taliban justice and witnessed executions. Alozai's brother brought the couple's children to court. Zarmina's mother says: 'They were always beating the children to say their mother had killed.'
Very unfortunate. Today I discovered on news that Theresa May, Brit PM has described Islam "As poisonous faith of perverted Islam". World must realise that current Islamic practice is incompatible with modern society globally. Muslims must stop claiming their Islam ways in host lands or else, stay in their own cocoons. It must be said explicitly to Muslims.
I'm an afghan and I know that living in America is a best thing ever... I'm glad that I'm in a country were I don't feel a big threat. Many of you may think differently about afghans or Islam in general but let me tell you that my religion is not close to being bad. Islam is a religion with peace. We want peace that's all. But for some uneducated people we are "terriost" or a big threat smh. It breaks my heart how my religion is hated upon some people. All that matters to me is that I know my religion is a beautiful peace wanting religion. No in the Quran it doesn't say "Kill people and destroy mankind" it says not to harm one because that means you are destroying all of mankind. This is a nice video and my heart goes out to them. But don't say anything about Islam if you are not fully educated.
Has "documentary" been withdrawn from this and other sites because people are beginning to see it as propaganda?
Documentary doesn't exist.....!!!!
This documentary is interesting also by the things that aren't said. The argument of religion versus atheism is a non argument when it comes to man's ability to become a murderer. It is easily done as man is easily led. Ipen says there is no way he would attend the execution. I don't believe that for a moment. Given remarkable sequences of events and where you are placed in those events, you are capable of unspeakable acts. This is because we are animals and not enlightened, not wise and certainly not compassionate. Greed and power drives us all to one extent or another and the need to belong will have your mind working to place you in a position where you firstly need to survive. Once you have done this, you will want to succeed and advance and there you go. Your alternative is death and I hardly think that many will opt for that. Don't kid yourself that you are not capable of doing it. Citizens from most countries in the world have carried out atrocities in times of war. The difference is that for these people there is no such thing as atrocities, just necessities of survival. When we stop seeing others as our brothers and sisters, we become ripe fruit for the picking, I don't care who you are or who you think you are. God just doesn't come into it. Be true to yourself and have your own mind, care for those you don't know nor understand and try to resist being part of the pack. If there is a better way, I've yet to see it.
Like everyone else I was appalled and heartsick! It's all so very tragic on so many levels. I also have a question: How did they get 30,000 average Afghan citizens to go to the Internationally constructed arena to witness an execution? Perhaps they were tricked one time but this happened more than once. Unless I CONDONED it there is NO WAY you could convince me to ATTEND an execution, regardless what other sporting event may happen! I make no real judgment, I simply ponder the question.
Warped Sick S*it. The whole lot of them need to come into awareness and humanitarian way of life, already.
I feel physically sick after watching this. The Taliban are some warped motherfu**ers.
Whether we like it or not, the Taliban is part of the West's legacy. The U.S. government and the CIA encouraged extremist Muslim groups to come to Afgahnistan, funded the Taliban, trained the Taliban to take over and continue to work with them and fund the to this day. Many public U.S. officials including Hillary Clinton and Ron Paul have admitted that we are to blame for the direction of that country. This seems to be the usual outcome when the U.S. intervenes in a country whether it is to abuse it to gain a military, political or corporate advantage or to loot it for it's precious oil or other natural Products.
This political restructuring of the Middle East, is part of a policy of militaristic imperialism that the American and British ruling circles have been engaged in for several centuries. What is happening now with the Taliban was put in place knowingly or unknowingly by the U.S and CIA.
I admire Carla Garapedian's courage for going in to the hyena den and risking her life to make this moving documentary. Throughout, her voice was measured - never shrill or breaking. Remarkable. None of Afghanistan's ancient glory exists today. The landscape is as dry and unforgiving as the mindset of its cruel and paranoid Taliban. Another example of how religious zealotry can pollute the mind and bring out the worst in its adherents.
The definition of evil is ignorance and relgion ( all religion ).
Your a fool! Ignorance, yes! Religion, no!!!!! For your information, not that i care that you should know but the word "ISLAM" itself means Peace!!!!
Not that I dont expect an ignorant person like you to get that!!
No it doesn't mean peace at all. It means submission or more accurately "submission to god". The Arabic word for peace is Al Salaam.
Islam means to acquire peace by submitting to the will of God.
Evil = religion ? really? Doesn't religion tell us to avoid evil since doing evil things is sinful?
I agree that evil comes from ignorance but not religion. The point of religion is to give us answers for our existence and to give us a guideline to follow in order to avoid EVIL. So you can't put religion inside the definition of evil thats just...just being ingnorent.
Religion starts out well, but then people do radical things, and yes, it can turn evil. Religion is good in theory until it turns out like this. Plus its all about politics anyways.
When people do radical things, it's not the religion that turns evil but the people that do those radical things that have become evil themselves. Don't confuse a religion with its followers as followers although they might clame to come from a certain religion they don't always practice it the correct way.
using religion as a way to justify murder is absolutely heinous. These Talibans are purely terrorists, not Muslims at all.
Religion is THE most popular way to justify murder. It's a traditional thing. Yes, they ARE Muslims. Islam is blinkered, bronze age mumbo-jumbo just like the other Abrahamic religions. (although it's clearly just a later rip-off of earlier ones, which are merely the nastier plagarisms of earlier ill-informed fantasies) As such it is ridiculous at best, delusional, xenophobic and sexist all too often. This crap belongs to a barbaric time where mankind had few answers for our existence but all the same selfish drives. Religion: the most evil dangerous fairy tales ever sold. Time to grow up Homo Sapiens. Time for all those still following various types of nonsense left over from the least developed parts of the world 4000-1400 years ago to realise they are holding the species back and making this sort of vile terrorism possible -FOR NOTHING.
You are wrong. If you knew true muslims, you would know this IS NOT Islam. This is pure culture.
the Koran is filled with prompts of violence! Just read it
You yourself should read the Quran because saying that its filled with prompts of violence is totally false. Islam or the Shariah laws aren't blood thirsty as the media portrays it or as the muslims who don't practice Islam the correct way deal with things.
Because Islam is truly a religion of peace which main message is just to worship Allah, the One and Only God who created both you and me.
So please learn about the religion first from the real sources and from good practicing Muslim instead of just blindly following what the media says because saying that is totally not nice on top of being false. At least back up you're statements with proof if you can and if you can't you'll know you're wrong and that goes for everyone who tries to bash this beautiful religion.
You are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!That book is LOADED with "KILL the Infidel" over and over it a says this and you have the Balls to say that it doesn't. Horrible violent religion! Made by the sword, kept by the sword, a disgrace.
Look, let me inform you of something in order to clear any misunderstanding you might have of the Quran. First of all, you need to check the context and explanations of the verses of the Quran before just simply taking a part of what is written (OUT OF CONTEXT) and using it as an argument in saying that Islam is violent.
The part where it says ''Kill the infidel'' well it’s in a CONTEXT of WAR when the Muslims were against the non-Muslims in combat and when they were being under attacked and oppressed. Plus the verse is not intended to imply a general meaning for just anyone to decide to go around combating non-Muslims. It’s specifically during war time or when you’re facing aggression, oppression or even terrorism (Islam forbids terrorism btw) and you’re not even supposed to kill innocent people whether they are Christians, Jews, or even from any other faith for that matter. Islam doesn’t allow it.
And also, Islam wasn’t made by the sword, kept by the sword or even spread by the sword. That is another misconception many people have. First of all, Islam has always given respect and freedom of religion to all faiths. Freedom of religion is even ordained by the Quran itself: “There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong.” (Quran 2:256)
Plus the Quran recommends us to invite people to Islam with wisdom, good instructions and to argue with them in the best manner possible. It doesn’t tell us to use violence or even the sword to force it upon people.
And you know, even during the time when Muslims ruled Spain (Andalusia) for about 800 years, Christians and Jews enjoyed freedom of practicing their respective religions, and this is a documented historical fact.
And also India, another country that was ruled by Muslims for about a thousand years, had the power to force each and every non-Muslim there to convert to Islam, but they did not, and so you can see that more than 80% of the Indian population still remains non-Muslim.
So Islam did not spread by the sword and it sure isn’t kept by it, clearly everyone has the right to choose their religion and despite that, Islam is the fastest growing religion both in America and Europe.
So please, if you have any other misconceptions about Islam learn and search about it carefully before making any statements because Islam is really one of the most misunderstand religion.
I hope that clears your thoughts about it being a violent religion because that is not the case.
(And sorry if my reply is so long it’s just that I have so much to say about it because I strongly believe that Islam doesn’t preach violence and I wish people would stop viewing it as such and start learning more about it to understand it better.)
"The Part" It's many parts...Kill the infidel over and over again, what a waste!
Ok many parts whatever the case, you still need to take the verse in its context. I explained it all below, why does that verse still bother you so much anyways? I mean its not like a Muslim is going to come and kill you, its all in context of war.
I feel sorry for you, getting misinformation. Pick up a Qur'an and read it for yourself. Don't just take a false snippet from Fox news.
God you pozzi, are re*arded. You don't even know how to hold up an argument. I am no Muslim but grew up in a christian background (not claiming that I myself am one) and I see more truth and love spoken from these Muslims then from your lazy, pathetic a**. Don't even bother arguing with Pozz. THAT would be a WASTE.
I wholehearted disagree with you! Islam was indeed put in place by the Sword and it is very much kept in place by the same bloody sword. The koran says over and over again " kill the infidels...sorry
Why do you disregard all the facts that I just told you about as to prove that Islam was not put in place by the sword?
And how can you say that its still kept in place by the sword? How could it be kept by the sword in our time? Did you see any muslim threathning other people and saying if you don't believe in Islam I'll kill you?
And may I ask you one question, did you read the whole Quran with its explanations included?
Trolling my ass! Read the book and you will see for your self!!!!!!!just do it and shut up. Your religion is dangerous,,,,Bloody and nasty.
Ok...did I tell you to shut up? like why are you so disrespectful
first of all I'm already reading it and my religion ain't dangerous or nasty if you don't wanna believe in it its your problem but don't go around insulting it, how'd you like it if people insulted your religion?
what is your point? Your wrong! Driving your point doesn't matter. I have read it myself. If you read it you will see. If you don't think the statement
"kill the infidel" is a prompt of violence, we just have to agree to disagree. goodnight
Sorry to say but you're the one who's wrong. You seem pretty stubborn with your statement that ''it's a prompt of violence'', well be it, what can I say if you disregard everything explaining that verse and just stick to that? Only God can make you understand and guide you if He wants, and if He doesn't coz you're heart can't accept the truth, well it's just too bad for you.
You speak of truth, the Bible was a fact 700 years before Muhammad and Islam, Joseph Smith and Mormons and in Galatians 1:8,9 proves the truth of the Bible by God's anticipation and warning of any man or angel claiming to come from God with a gospel different than that we have received from the Apostles. Both "prophets" Muhammad and Smith claim that it was an angel that came from God to give them their truth. If truth is so important to you both religions are in disagreement with the other, so which angel bought the truth or does the verses that came centuries before make both of these religions void of truth? Romans 10:3 is God's definition of religion, it is man being ignorant of the righteousness of God and going about to ESTABLISH HIS OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS and God says that man's righteousness is as dirty rags to Him. Islam says that the Jews altered God's truth, then this means that God is weak and could not protect His truth from being distorted so that future generations could know His truth. The Bible came long before Islam and in it Jesus says that He and the Father are the same. Islam claims that Jesus was not Creator as the Bible says but a good and wise teacher. If Jesus claims the He was in existence before Abraham then how can He be a good man if He is a lair? It is man made righteousness that killed this woman while the Commandment says thou shalt not kill did God make a mistake and then come out with the Qu'ran? Islam took from the Bible what it thinks makes it a true faith and called the rest lies that is like going to a contaminated well for water and drawing out uncontaminated water, thats impossible!
"Islam says that the Jews altered God's truth, then this means that God is weak and could not protect His truth from being distorted so that future generations could know His truth."
You know, if God wanted to He could make everyone believe in the religion He sent down but he doesn't do so because He sent us down on Earth to test us and if people really wanted the truth God would guide them no doubt as we can see in the story of Salman Al-Farisi, a companion of the prophet who used to be a fire-worshipper (If you read about his story you'll understand what I mean). Just because the earlier scriptures were distorted it doesn't mean that it's because God was unable to protect it. Rather He lets man taste the consequences of his own deeds and God knows best.
"Islam took from the Bible what it thinks makes it a true faith and called the rest lies that is like going to a contaminated well for water and drawing out uncontaminated water, thats impossible!"
Islam took from the Bible what it thinks makes it a true faith? Well you know some parts of the bible hasn't been altered, those parts were instructions from the same God who sent down the Quran. You can't really say God copied his own book now can you? Cause thats basically what you're saying when you say that the Quran copied the Bible in some aspects. And how is it impossible considering nothing is impossible for God? The Quran wasn't written by the prophet (pbuh) as the verse in the Quran states concerning Mohammed (pbuh) : "He does not speak out of his own desire. It is naught but revelation that is revealed." (53: 4-5)
Besides if the Quran was written by a man there would be many contradictions and mistakes in it just like in the Bible but there is nothing like that in Our holy book, there are even 'scientific miracles' in it.
If you're interested, go on youtube and watch : More than 69 Miracles of Islam, that none can deny
"If Jesus claims the He was in existence before Abraham then how can He be a good man if He is a lair?"
What do you mean, when and where did Jesus ever claimed that? Btw I heard Jesus never said that He was God in the bible not even in a single verse. In fact Jesus prayed to God "He fell down on his face" (Matthew 26:39) . If he and God were the same why would he pray? And in the bible in many verses Jesus speaks of himself and the Father (God) as different people, not the same. I really don't know how so many Christians can believe that their religion is about monotheism when they speak of the trinity.
Btw I didn't quite understand your reference to Joseph Smith?
You are being disresepctful. How can we debate with you if you are name calling?
Sorry, but you are wrong on this.
You are incorrect my brother. I have read the entire Qur'an several times. If you want to know about Islam, ask a Muslim, not Fox news.
the Koran is filled with prompts of violence! Just read it
I also advise everyone to read the Quran. Go ahead but be sure to understand the verses within their context and with their explanations. Because its not filled with prompts of violence really.
And I hope you stop trolling this statement. You wrote twice the same thing.
We have read it. You do the same.
You should read it Pozz. I am an American female, and I am also a convert to Islam. If it were a violent religion, I would not have chose it. And read The Bible sometimes. The violence in there will shock you.
They are both fairy tales encouraging violence. All this fighting over nonsensical, ridiculous beliefs that have no evidence. It's absurd that anyone believes such cr@p.
It seems you have no problem with winged horses, the moon supposedly being cut in half with a sword etc. lol.
Here are a couple of the supposedly 'peaceful passages' from the Qur'an.
Quran (8:12)
- "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"
Quran (9:123)
- "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."
You want evidence that Islam is the truth? Here's your proof, explain this :
go on youtube and watch the video
"More Than 69 Miracles of ISLAM, that none can Deny ."
Btw you are doing what most ignorant people do : taking a verse of the Quran out of context. Do you even know about the islamic history and what truly happened at the time of the prophet (pbuh)? If you don't then instead of taking verses out of context and pointing them out, learn about it, learn about how the disbelievers at that time TORTURED the Muslims and declared WAR against them when they emigrated to another city. Learn about it and then put your grain of salt in the discussion instead of speaking without knowledge.
Love the way u quoted the verses of the quraan yet still totally take it out of context, so °̩ ask u mr docoman , who are the disbelievers ? U read what u see without having to realise the true meaning of disbelievers , do u believe in god ? If u do does this make u ª disbeliever ? How can °̩ call someone who believes in ª superior being ª disbeliever , the quraan does speak of christians hindus or ne religions as disbelievers, god speaks of those who follows satan as he disbelieves in god and so will he's followers. To me there is no greater evil then that of Lucifer , how is the quraan to call christians disbelievers if our quraan speaks of Jesus and Mary , our Isa ..and the prophets in ur bible that's in quraan ?
If u call urself ª christian or ª man who believes in god , wud u not stand and fight against the angel that disobeyed ur god ? So again °̩ ask you in this day and age , is satanism not one of the most increasing number in religion ? Does ur bible not speak of the cuming of the beast 666 ? And when that does happen whose swords are going to be drawn and against who ? The way °̩ see it everyone is so quick to dismiss ª religion oblivious of what has been written ..So again °̩ say to those who think they might know islam u don't ..do not quote from our holy book and change the meaning of it to suit u and ur hatred towards us..
Nobody hates you, and please do not proselytize, please write in plain English without text messaging speech, thanks.
Then can you please explain to me in what context "strike off their heads and fingertips" is peaceful?
Satan/Lucifer is a disbeliever in God? Where does the quraan [sic] say that?
You've assumed much, even though the very post you replied to and the conversation it was a part of contained the information to your question on whether I call myself Christian or a believer in God. Which makes your last paragraph just stupid when you find your answer, as well as your dribbling about who is a 'disbeliever'.
And I'll quote from whatever source I wish, including your book of BS, regardless of your absurd order.
Is it possible to get a conversation/answer without your silly threats and abuses? Or is that forbidden by your religion?
Depends on your level of interlact, your continuous dry humour and relgious slender which in return would get my verbal abuse , oh and please that religion punch line you think has so much humour in , has totally lost its umph..Other then that I'm open for discussion
I won't be able to personally have an intellectually stimulating conversation with you, you're too brainwashed and sadly lacking in interlact [sic], and life experience. I do have a dry humour, but you need to look up the definition of sarcasm and the difference in this case.
I really don't care what some silly little ignorant girl thinks of me or my so-called relgious slender [sic]. Watched the documentary have you? If so then it seems you have no problem with what your fellow religious nutters did to this woman, and their other atrocities that they do on a daily basis to women.
You fail to recognise that you enjoy your religious freedoms not because of your religion, but because of your countries laws containing your religious leader's aspirations. If your religion had it's way, (the same as most religions) that freedom of speech you spoke proudly of would go the same way apartheid has.
For example, that clothing you're wearing in your avatar pic... not acceptable. That little opening on your chest would be enough to be a legal excuse for men to rape you. You even speaking to males on here... no.
Ever spent time in a Muslim country? I've lived in one, seen first hand what your Fairy Tale does to previously decent people. Have you ever witnessed your religion's laws in action, like the woman in this documentary experienced?
Your excuse of vile, despicable instructions as 'out of context' shows the extent of your indoctrination.
So you can ignore the comments policy, ignore what you say you're instructed to do in your book of BS, and abuse away if you wish. Silly little girl.
“Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best. Indeed, your Lord is most knowing of who has strayed from His way, and He is most knowing of who is [rightly] guided.” (Quran 16:125)
The prophet (pbuh) said : “Those who believe in Allah and in the Last Day shall either speak good or remain silent.” Sahîh al-Bukhârî and Sahîh Muslim
As you see we're not suppose to use threats and abuse. :P
Another thing I'd like to point out to you. As you can see with the latest posts here I'm talking to two Muslims in the current conversation. You have been polite, the other has had numerous posts deleted that contained among abusive remarks, an expression of a wish to smash my face with a steel chair. Then ask for Allah's forgiveness later and it'll be all fine for her.
I grant that I've been sarcastic at times and have said some things that a Muslim would not like to read, but someone saying things like that is in no way peaceful, yet she calls herself Muslim too. Whether you like it or not, she is. And if you think of replying that she's not a 'true' Muslim that is just employing the 'no true Scotsman fallacy'.
What is an impartial reader supposed to conclude? (others reading our exchanges) It's a pity they were so abusive they were deleted, it showed her real feelings.
Did she say that she’ll ask Allah’s forgiveness later then it’ll be all fine for her or are you the one implying that she’ll probably ask for forgiveness and then be forgiven? Because if she truly wants to be forgiven there are certain conditions required when you repent to God. Firstly, you have to stop doing whatever sin you’re committing. Then regret it sincerely. Promise not to repeat it and also if you have harmed someone or have taken someone’s right you must apologise and give that person their rights back.
I’m not saying that what she said is peaceful in any way; I agree with you that it’s quite aggressive. And yes, an impartial reader would conclude by her attitude that Islam is violent as many judge the religion based on those who claim to be its followers. However,I would never say that she’s not a true Muslim because that’s not for me to decide. Also, I’m not saying that all Muslims are peaceful obviously it depends on the person whether they’re peaceful or not, no matter their race or religion. I’m just saying that from my understanding Islam’s motto is not to encourage violence as you say; Islam is not centered on violence. Its main message is the unity of God, that’s basically what the Quran is trying to teach us. Once a person has accepted that with understanding, then comes all the rest (instructions on how to live your life as a Muslim). If Islam was all about killing the disbelievers, shedding blood in essence ruthless violence, I do not think I would be a Muslim.
In any case, I guess I have a different understanding of Islam as you do from what I learned in my life.
Btw, do people (haters) really have to dislike all the comment I make even the ones in which I actually mention something that should be considered genuinely good by everyone as I was just making a point in the previous comment that we should not use foul and vulgar language as Muslims. (0.0) what is there to dislike in saying that?
It's history I don't care and didn't then, but yes, she said she shouldn't say it but ..blah blah and she'll be forgiven later by Allah. I was making a point about not all Muslim people are peaceful, yet claim to and do use the religion that way to justify it sometimes.
Please stop trying to preach to me, I know much more about religion then you're giving me credit, I don't need the basic's, for e.g forgiveness...
Otherwise you're just preaching.
Watch the doco and links or don't bother preaching please...
Sorry for trying to preach to you. I won't bother commenting on this thread anymore. I had rewatched your link earlier however, and it did not convince me.
G'day Risa,
apology accepted, I'm sorry for any sarcasm towards you from myself. There is a comments policy, you'll find it on the home page up the top. Preaching or trolling or off topic or abusive or threats etc isn't allowed. The mods are fairly tolerant, but not on some things like threats.
You are welcome to comment the same as anyone else Risa, as long as we follow the policy.
This show you should watch, as I've said there is only a couple places you might wish to listen to rather then watch, (the executions ), the rest is not like that. It's not a hate piece as you assume, it's host is an English (if I recall correctly) woman that has an Afghan father, going back to see her father's homelands and what it was like now compared to the stories and pictures she had from her father.
I'd be interested to hear your comments on it. Other then that, I'm not interested in a basic's on Islam that I mostly already know, pick a point and I'll discuss it if you want. The show if you stick to the policy. Islam and why the Taliban seen on this show are not real Muslims for starters...
I dnt see how you could agree with a person who blantly called our quraan trash,he did not raise an opinion stating that he thought Islam is violent but made a statement by quoting and misinterpreting the meaning of it all..i may not have the patience (sabr) like you, or the humble set of vocabulary to bow down when a person attacks my religion. I also don't agree that my post was aggressive in any form which gave you the right to paint a portrait of me being violent and out of orthadox..I do have a very clear knowledge of what repenting is so having to justify my comments is something u don't need to do.
Yes like I've tried time and time again to prove that Islam has not an ounce of violent teachings, i am human enough to be angered when people rewrites their own version of Islam to suit them.
Unfortunately i don't sugar coat what i say just so someone cud paint a pretty picture of who i am, if they can't acknowledge my defensive arguments as a muslim who loves my religion then I'm not prepared to be someone I'm not. Islam shud not be defined by the people who choose to defend it but by a person's own initiative by having to look up and read about it without having an alteria motive to criticize and discriminate it. To completely disrespect a religion shows that the person himself disregard any living organism on this earth. Had he been christian jew or whatever other religion the respect of ª higher power would land him respect for a human being, each religion teaches that.
Every person has a right to an opinion no doubt but no one has that right to disrespect the next person's God.Its not an individual attack which is soley allowed but an attack on everything you and a billion other people believe in.
So before you shoot me down go read my comments again and ask yourself if the person you trying to convince is actually open to your views or are you trying to fill a glass which is already full.
Nobody seems to be doing anything productive to help our fellow humans. all we do is potray there primitiveness and how horrible they are. They are monsterous(the taliban, the ones that kill the innocent) but we need to stop focusing on the hatred and make a move towards a positive action towards change in Afghanistan. Getting everyone to hate them will only make people more un-willing so it seems. Has anyone done anything productive? even after all the news on tv and documentaries about violence in afganistan. instead we should do something and fill people with hope and ideas of a positive change for the better, to help give these poor people their right to live, every person should have that right
These Talibans are hiding behind a religion to get away with mass murder. they claim they are muslims but in no way or form are they. they promote what we are against. in no book or teachings of islam do they mention us muslims having to have ridiculous and outrageous laws like these. people need to be more willing to really look behind the headlines and do their research before making claims and accusations.
But that is not what is most important in this documentary. Im so appreciative of everything i have im even appreciative that im writing this comment right now. I dont think other countries should ignore this. i think countries should get involved. if we leave to fend for themselves they have no hope. the people are slowly dying out and its sickining to watch.
they are not going to change any time soon, they have a primitive way of life that has been rooted in their mind that doesnt make them change over-night.
I am just a 16 year old muslim girl, i dont claim to know everything this is just my view
killing innocents is not justice or bringing peace or unity to the country.. liked the way its shown..but made me very much sad to know all this..
How do we judge this talibans are bad. what about this so called western civilization responsible for killing millions in the name of christian belief. In U.S.A they killed more than 14 million indians in the past 500 years and still they are the victims living in the reservations with unemployment more than 85% with suicide rate at the rate 4 to 7 every week. What's happening to the native Australians every day? Americans atrocity in Afghanistan and Iraq. Stop this nonsense trying to portray Talibans are the evils. Before coming to any judgement please watch documentary Trudell and The canary effect, this will open your eyes.
There are documentaries detailing the atrocities committed in the West. This has nothing to do with the Taliban. I cannot assault my neighbor and then deflect my guilt by pointing at the guilt of others. This film is about the Taliban. If they did what this film claims then they are guilty of wrong doing. What someone else has done has absolutely no bearing on it and is an attempt to deflect criticism and responsibility.
Past, and present, actions of various western countries does not make the action of the Taliban justified and if anybody thinks that these cowards,yes cowards,are not evil then either you do not understand the meaning of the word evil or you are in fact evil yourself. -- It is disguting to stand up and protect these shallow self righteous bigots in any shape or form. they are evil plain and simple, no excuses.
I am having such a hard time understanding how a country gains from keeping its people primitive? Keeping people poor. It just blows my mind that in this day & age there are people living like this. Unreal. Somewhere, Someone is gaining from this chaos....somehow.
Just to think, we have cute little clothes & jewellery for our treasured pets and to know there are women & children on the streets is heart breaking.
This documentary is important for everyone to view. Of course it is hard to see--but the Taliban are awful--awful isn't the correct adjective- Ruthless extremely evil men who want to control everyone. Too many people have their heads in fairytale land of never-never land ethos and are playing games instead of learning about current events not watching the news as to what is really happening. The abuses of many people in our lives seem to be nonexistent for many who are trying to keep with their own lives as hard as it may seem--- but many have nothing to compare to the atrocities that have been committed to many people in third world countries. Bad things happen everywhere to alot of people--it happens possibly because they are ill -informed or just don't realize what's occurring under our noses. Our rights slowly erode because of the few extremely rich that control the masses. This documentary is an eye opening realistic example of what people shouldn't have to experience. People have to watch the news, read and relearn history so we will be able to stop horrible catastrophe from starting. Wake up everyone before it is too late!!
My god, reading the comments here, I am astonished at the illiteracy and stupidity of most people. Thanks to people like THIS we have these problems in the world. Next time please educate yourself at least on the subject then make comments.
Who are you? Someone important? Since you're so brilliant on the subject please educate us dumb dumbs. Oh & "god" is spelled with a captial G and you really should have put an exclamation mark ( ! ) at the end to emphasize your astonishment.
hahaha couldn't resist!
This Doc watching it really really pissed me off. I'm glad I'm not from a culture like this ohhh they would have killed me no doubt, I could not live in these circumstances, i probably would be a bitter woman a Man HATER to the fullest. I'm reallly bad with holding grudges for abuse like how these women experienced. And the little kids eating moldy bread that lady had seven kids and she can't work! In a america you get ripped on so hard for having alot of children and a single mother and do not work. These people encourage that just so the mothers and her children starve. I think men like that power s*** to keep you down and controlled. Women don't do it! Have you ever been with a man that doesn't want you to work and stay at home then you have alot of kids now he takes good care of you right. But you have to do what he says and if he leaves you what do you have NOTHING, unless you marry some wealthy man or something how many wealthy men do you know or have married. From what i see most people with money sign pre-nups any way. Don't buy into that crap you better have your own income on the side just in case or you and you're kids will struggle. This is the Worst case of struggling for a women and their children I have ever seen. This doc i won't view again f*** it thats the way I feel after watching this shit.
This documentary isn't about HATE, it's about making the world aware of the atrocities being brought apon the Afgan ppls, and the horrors they have to endure. Women forced to feed moldy bread to their starving children, not allowed to work, not allowed basic human rights. Hospitals destroyed, homes torn and blown apart....and all I read here is how this brave woman is promoting hate, most of you are missing the point....she is asking for ppl to CARE!!!!!!
I watched the documentary , and I was abhorred by the injustice and the tyranny being portrayed. I don't think the reporter meant to say this is what Islam does to people , this injust , cruel , women abuser religion. After all there are women "ROWA" those who were feminists and fought for basic rights. Islam doesn't prevent women from working , teaching , or medical care. It's the extremists . The Taliban is no different than the KKK , they both killed for control and because the other party is a different ethnic group.
What is the purpose of the Taliban? After watching this documentary, that is the question I ask myself. Women aren't the only ones being oppressed, it is men and children also. I wonder if we weren't there at the moment how better would it be? They put forth rules that are required by everyday people to follow ,but yet they do not follow the same set of rules that, the everyday person must. Why is this?
I understand that many countries have a set of rules regarding adultery,fornication,murder and etc...So if you live in these few countries that stone,hang,shoot for the punishment of certain crimes. Why then is it always a women or young girl punished more often then the men who carried out similar crimes or acted out with a women to commit adultery,fornication.
Women are dealt with more harshly then men, because in some of these countries,women are less then livestock. If you are to punish for crimes then the punishment should be carried out for all who commits crimes.
It seems that groups like the Taliban,Al-Qaeda are not fighting for their peoples right, but for total control. This documentary shows just that, if they were there for the needs of people. They wouldn't murder husbands,fathers, because by murdering husbands and fathers they are destroying the entire family. After they have been killed, their wives can not sustain a family without an income, so women and children starve. Under the rule of the Taliban women can not work. So we are back at the beginning of my comment What is the purpose of the Taliban?
I cannot believe how this discussion went. So much name calling and whose country is better. What we seem was a woman murdered for committing adultery. My question is what happens to a man if he is accused of adultery? Several people made the comment that she should be killed because she knew the law. I have heard that a man can accuse his wife of adultery and buy off some of his friends to say they slept with her too and the one one punished is the woman. In that part of the world if a woman is raped, she is punished not the man how raped her. Yes women's right have been slow to come to other countries but we do have them. It took a lot of brave women standing up for their rights. I think we should bring all our soldiers home and let these people kill themselves off. We need to reduce world population.
I was so into your comment I mean I totally agreed with you all the way until I reached half of the last two sentences. That just turned me off. If i could give you 3/4 of a like thats what I would give you.
Wow, started reading the comments and got about halfway through when I realized this was a documentary meant to promote hate. Simple enough.
I only have a few comments to comment on, as I got annoyed about half way through.
The woman in the video killed her husband to keep herself from being stoned to death for adultery. So, the question automatically comes up, who's right, who's wrong, what your religious views are and where in the world you live.
All are the wrong ways to look at something. Murder is murder no matter what you look at it. Killing someone for cheating is a part of their VERY OLD culture. A people who have lived with the same laws for thousands of years don't change overnight, through force or because another culture disagrees with them. They change on their own and through their own progress. Period.
As to the Native American who stated "I will never forget the day the Mayflower sailed" You weren't alive then.
As to the woman who said "Women need more power" I call bull. You need to learn to use the power you have now to make this world EQUAL!
I am a female Native American who lives in Europe with a husband who comes from a much different culture than I do. We have a 50/50 relationship. We each do our part to make our lives work and live in the world. Women now a days are trying to take over the world, men did this 5,000 years ago and one gender ruling anything DOESN'T WORK. There are two genders on this planet, not one.
Making documentaries based in hatred only keeps us further from what should be our goal. Equality, human rights and understanding.
Stop blaming religion, region or gender and learn we are all human, no matter what way you look at it.
I do not agree with the part of promoting hatred. If you hate injustice, then that will suffice. The Taliban government in Kabul was one of the most brutal and unjust religious regime in history. And people in Kabul, specially women were no used to those "traditions" that you refer in your statement, they were as western as you can be. They were used to study, work, drive, dress in beautiful clothes, show their faces with makeup, dance... So please, don't put preconceived ideas (that are wrong anyway) in the situation at hand. Even if you were right in that fact and it was an "ancient tradition" that by itself has absolutely no bearing in the question of right and wrong. There are countries of Africa in which it is tradition to cut the clitoris of women, and in China it was a long tradition to deform the feet of girls to make them look smaller and none of them qualify as acceptable practices from an ethical point of view. They go against everything that human rights stand for.
The Taliban outlawed the flying of kites...a tradition in Afghanistan. Women were suddenly not allowed in schools. A person was expected to conform to all the beliefs of the Taliban or suffer the consequences. This type of religious zeal was unprecedented, even in the Muslim world.
take 'god' out of the picture and see man's humanity to man for the atrocity that it is. we create the world that we live in, and do not receive it from 'god'. it is ourselves that we have to change to live in a peaceful world.
islam means peace? christians are christ-like? that's like nutella calling itself a 'hazelnut spread'. we all know what's up.
Those stupid, misguided men ! they dont know how to respect & enjoy the beauty of their own womenfolk.. .. they are so driven by allah & the 52 virgins promised them. they cant see the beauty of life on earth right here on earth.. if her husband claimed she commited adultery, well then it is between the 2 of them..she was prob beat everyday.& worse .& also he may have lied about the adultry .sure she shouldnt have killed him but she knew she was to be stoned because of what her husband was about to tell the taliban, she was scared out of her mind, ! she knew her fate & that she wouldnt be believed
Thank you for doing a good job of showing us how things are going on there..it is sad that taliban is doing all this.These countries talk all about muslim of living and all but what there are doing to the ppl of they country, shame on them...it is not what they say is law and order, I wonder if yo get all of then in line and just shot them will be much better or what to do to help the little girl and mothers who need all the help from these freaks who rape and kill for fun..the other thing is when the minister talked abotu build them a plce to to kill the ppl who had sex with others or just want to kill ppl then i think who ever build the place for soccer should build a place just to kill these asswholes...my prayrs goes to all are hurting..
islam 101
And you took Ignorance 101.
@Tina
what did you mean we are causing atrosities to our own people?...I tell you what, you show me one and I will feed them and give them some clothes.The next day at 5:00AM I will wake them up with some breakfast and go job hunting.(Repeat every single day until accomplished....There problem solved
Indivisuals create there way of life(not gov.) I'm tired of perfectly healthy people who blame their financial problems on others..US..plenty of jobs..Unemployment rate is just a polite term for people who think they are to good for certain jobs...Gov. can't put some majic pill in people and give them a little ambishin to get off their lazy a$$es and make a decent life for them selves..So,most just take the easy way and collect wellfare that comes out of working people wallets such as myself! I've been working fulltime since I was fifteen and I am now 41 and have never gone without a job.I make decent money and have been puting some a way for retirement since my early twenties.I've never blamed any one when I go through some low finance trouble every now and then but I keep my head up and go to work mon.-fri. just like everyone else.
Atrosities?...NO
laziness/complaining....Ah,Yah
You sound like such a sweet caring christian person. I'm sure the people on welfare in the US are just living high on the hog, and just love the rat infested holes they have to live in, always being (more often than not, depressed, dealing with addiction, which is a disease by the way, before you start spouting off again about and doing without...always. Oh yes I understand it's coming out of "working peoples wallets etc. etc. blah blah...You know what else you pay for? The war that is going on in Afghanistan..oops I mean the troops who are there showing the Afghani people how to do things the "right way". B.t.w if you had stayed in school at 15 (instead of working full time) you may well know how to spell certain words like 'Individuals' and 'atrocities' and 'ambition' 'magic' 'welfare' and 'putting'...I can't stand you holier than thou idiots who blame the problems in YOUR life on the poor and hungry in your own country!! Oh and your problem solving ideas? No, I really don't think that it's quite as easy as you claim you think it is.
"Indivisuals create there way of life(not gov." who is doling out those HUGE checks then??
@Tina
Well if my nation and yours is messing up the world why don't you put a demorolizing sheet over your head and move to F$%^ing Afghanistan.Will see how much of your dumb*** logic makes sense.Go on, get the f%ck out!
I am extremelly proud of my nation.You like your freedom,I'm sure.Your just one of those that want it without a price.Islam is a very violent "cult" that messed up our soil.
Yes ,I think you'll do just fine over there.At least their men will keep you silent!
United states is not messing up Afghanistan. Afghanistan people just look at United States in a bad way because they are angry for whats going back there. However, you don't have to be so ignorant toward someone when they expressed there hate. I mean, I get it, you are a proud American, but please be open minded about Islam. Reading your comment, it doesn't seem like you are very educated. You sound like narrow minded individual who thinks Islam is a "very violent "cult" that messed up our soil. I mean.......really, you don't know the difference between the Taliban's and the actual true Islamic people. When you can become little bit more open minded about what goes on in other places around the world, maybe then you can post up posts about how freaking proud you are as an American. You would never know what it feels like to walk in shoes of a Muslim women or man and living in the United States. You think its hard living in Afghanistan, guess what its not that easy living in United States and being Muslim either, you dumb narrow minded proud American.
Your ignorance is so disturbing! You probably LOVE Glenn Beck, and all those hate spewing "journalists" over on Fox. Lmao! Typical!!
Sorry last thing to Proudinus
You make me sick!!!! Greatest Nation on the planet? Christian? think you need to go back to school and start learning some shit sweetheart!! Your comments are far from Christian and your nation along with mine is messing this world up, at least I can feel better that the impact the UK make will be that much lesser than the US... For that I may be able to sleep at night but you? What's the point in asking the question your just going to throw your toys out of the pram and resort to good old name calling, you are all the same.
To proudinus
I love my country (uk) but I am not proud (and neither should you) even I believe its simply a playground for politicians. You say we have freedom of speech but do we really, stand on the side of a street and start raising eyes about your government and if you put up enough of a threat I am positive something will be done..... look at Julian Assange for example, convenient don't you think that a few days after the recent leaks he then became most wanted.
We live under this umbrella of safety ( a media hyped safety) and its bullshit. Our governments f--k us up, this recent "recession" has left millions homeless and out of work and its due to irresponsible lending and bloody gambling with our countries money. These people should be taken to task.. I am anti west (I live here because for the moment I have to), America and the UK have their fingers in ever god damn pie because greed and "democracy" is what runs our countries.
The 9-11 chat you have been having with Grey area makes me laugh, Of course the powers that be were behind that, its great for the economy and gave a great excuse to go invade a Nation that has a big stockpile of oil, especially when we are about to run out. Of course they had something to do with it, the West always do.. Don't be so naive!!! The same kind of comments came from another one of you American bright sparks when I recently went to LA. "Your from Britain, f--k you for BP!!" how many more of you Americans have a brain that works like that. Open your eyes and look at our shit first.
How dare anyone have anything to say about anyone else's countries when ours is far from safe, is far from justified and is far from fair.
This has nothing to do with the documentary, which was very good by the way. I am simply sick of all westerners thinking their way or the highway and not even given a thought to the nasty under the table shit going on here.
When the Western World is causing so many atrocities to its own people I do not think we are in a position to condemn any other country or regime.
Politics and religion are the two evils in this world and it is because of them and the constant strains put on hard working and good people that we have the world we do today.
It is disgusting that we could sit back and allow people to be murdered or indeed sit back and allow people to be made homeless but we do everyday. We allow our children to eat "fake" food, to invest in "fake" economy, to be literally taken the piss out of for personal gain.
Individual people are not evil, the system is. We accept our side of the system everyday (western) and we do not seem to complain about it too much but watch how other countries do it and we are baying for blood.
I am of the belief that every country has a lot to do in order to bring their countries up to scratch, lets concern ourselves with sorting out our own and bringing that under control before we dive head first into someone else's.
To the person who made this documentry.
Yes you made a very good documentry and a lot of peoples said that you did a good job and so i am saying you did a good job. you need to understand Islam before you say some thing about islam i am not toward the Taliban as i dnt know them but the only one thing i know that in Islam commetting adultary after you are married you will be punished stone to death, so if the women who is shot dead if she has commetted adultary and it is proven then she should die because it is the law of Allah but unfortunately you your self dnt even look muslim and you dnt know about Islamic system you also joined those who are against Allah and his message you will get your answer on the day of judjment when you face Allah.
Allah sucks balls if he condones killing. If Allah exists, I can't wait to meet him so I can spit in his face.
Why do some Muslim (and Christians) seem to feel they know what God wants them to do and that they have the morality to mete out judgment on the evil doers of the world. It is an arrogance to claim to understand the mind of God. It is even a greater arrogance to believe that God has picked you out to sit in judgment of others.
Nothing is the law of allah, this is man made law just as allah is man made nonsense, this is a voice inside your head that you have created and now your asking this voice to guide your life!!, insane.- this is the 21st century,stoning !! realy?? are you seriously nuts or what ??. -- What ever happens to the man she had sex with, does he get a booby prize ??.
I happen to live in a country where we have the military force to protect our standard of living.If some terrorist come here and throws a wrench in our way of life we have every right to go into the country they are inhabiting and return the favor 5 fold.
The reason for the hatered in some muslim countries for us is because of jeolousy and religion.We can't let terrorist groups get away with acts like 9-11 because then every tom,dick and harry will think we are to sympathetic and weak and they will use this to their advantage.
Many races and religions live in the US. and most islamic people say" This is not islam as I live".Then they turn around and say give us a chance.That's all good and fine,but you have to understand the fear in the American people.You hear stories all the time about terrists getting caught with bombs trying to board our planes in the media (which is where a lot of fear comes from).Our society is not used to this unsureness nor should we tolerate it!
Like I said America is made of many different cultures and have the right to be proud of it.But when it all comes down to it they live here and need to be loyal to the US and be thanful that we live in one hell of a great nation.
Yes the M E D I A!!! Propaganda spewing, fear mongering a--holes!!
my goodness you are ignorant. most likely not very educated.
a terrorist organization is no more a representation of a country than a gang or the KKK are a representation of America.
If the KKK went over to England and blew up Big Ben do you think that would give England justification to go over and attack America?
you need to grow up. Islam is not "jealous" of America. they have a very different view on the world and how it should be run. they dont want to be like America. that is a stupid childish thing to say.
if you want to give up human rights and liberties and freedoms for security because you are scared after one attack that is your problem. dont push your fear on others.
PS: America is NOT a christian nation.
"The Treaty of Tripoli (Treaty of Peace and Friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli of Barbary) was the first treaty concluded between the United States of America and Tripolitania, signed at Tripoli on November 4, 1796 and at Algiers (for a third-party witness) on January 3, 1797. It was submitted to the Senate by President John Adams, receiving ratification unanimously from the U.S. Senate on June 7, 1797 and signed by Adams, taking effect as the law of the land on June 10, 1797.
As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
The treaty is cited as historical evidence in the modern day controversy over whether there was religious intent by the founders of the United States government. Article 11 of the treaty has been interpreted as an official denial of a Christian basis for the U.S. government."
Fundamentalism is a danger in all religions but in Islam it is a danger to the world. Muslim commenters claim this is not Islam but in fact it is and it requires Muslims to acknowledge it instead of claiming it doesn't exist or is just misunderstood and condemn it.
If you have any idea or have been properly educated about the religion and way of life known as Islam you would know that it doesn't support what has been portrayed in this documentary, it prohibits this kind of behavior and inequality. it is not the religion or the beleif in God/Allah that causes the destruction, it is the people. Religion is used as an excuse for their behaviour. A lot of the problems you hear and see going on in these countries are driven by 'cultural' values and not to mention the state of poverty and war, these are not 'religious' values. People need to learn to differentiate between the two. it is unfortunate that this religion which is suprisingly peaceful and preaches world peace at the core, is being blamed for it's supposed 'followers' in the name of Allah. These people either are sick in the head or don't know their own religion properly.
This is my conclusion after 2 years of closely studying Islam, The QURAN, The Hadith and the Sunna with an open mind, and putting aside the stereotypes.
The religion is not to blame. the people are. Just like the event of the crusades. And with homosexual pedophilia of Catholic priests. This doesn't mean it's acceptable in Catholism, it's just an unfortunate event that happened and was done by it's followers, this does not mean it is an actual, authentic beleif or part of the religion itself.
Open your eyes people.
It is difficult for some to believe that ones actions are sometimes separate from his beliefs. It is the contradictions that exist in the human psyche that make what we call "evil" so difficult to understand or explain.
I wish there were more "moderate" muslims speaking out against the jihad gangs and the insane mullahs and imans that seem to always have something to say, however, alas, the silence of the so called moderate muslim is deafening to my ears. Beware of those who speak for god.
@proudinUS
you have too much hate inside you. you say that you
"let things be what they are in government." as to divorce yourself from the negative actions of your government and then hold the average Afghan responsible for the actions of theirs. you claim the Afghans hid the Taliban but they were in charge. if you meant they hid bin laden then you are ignoring the fact that the Taliban offered to hand him over if the US would provide proof of his involvement in 9-11 . then you claim the rights to Afghanistans resources as payment for 9-11. then by your logic the US should pay for the reconstruction of Iraq seeing as the reasons for going were all lies. I am not anti-American as you will probably claim. My statements are only meant to try to hold the US accountable for their actions as they hold the rest of the world to. you also claim "that hates us because of our way of living" and you ignore the fact that these terrorists were your allies not too long ago and only when they were no longer useful did the US turn their back on them at that point i kind of understand their anger (not their actions tho 9-11 and killing innocents are always unjustified )
WOW,do you really dislike America this much? Look I know there might be some dirty politics in government.But it doesn't affect my freedom,freedom of speech,stanard of living,religious preferance or my ability to express my views.
As for forgetting about 9-11 that will never happen in the US nor should it.WE are the greatist nation on the planet and considered a christian .That's why we are hated.Not because of some "Redneck"as you call it.
Some people will always find fault with our country in one form or another.Other ,such as myself, don't dwell on the negative and let things be what they are in government.I thank God every morning I was brought up in a country where you have rights"The good Ol' USA".
I do have compassion for other cultures to an extent.But it's hard to find simpathy for those that hate so much.
Merry Christmas.
well first thinh is the government is corrupt so if they wer hidiing them its cuz ther corrupt, so like i said get rid of the govt i think we can both agree on that right. 9-11 ...get over it alredy how many years has it been? its cost more than even highest sums were thought it would . did you forget the economy crisis? thats all cuz of this pointless war. so if ur so gung ho how come ure not over ther clippin afghani kids then huh rambo? no heart? coward? or should i call you rosie then? your comment is half right but the other half is rednek blabber that wat makes the world hate america smart guy.. i mean rosie i mean rambo . if the u.s govt wernt such jaka$$es theyd feed all the starving kids at home instead of trillions on 'war on terror' where is bin laden? oh yah thats right hes in the george bush protection program , ther both probably smoking cigars in cuba right now
@grey area
Let me quess,your gay.Am I right Rosey O'Donnel?
I guess 9-11 didn't mean nothing to you.I quess we should
drop our purses and forgive,right.And they are hiding them monkey.If someone is in your back yard without permission and you don't do nothing about it wouldn't that make you a coward? Oh wait, I almost forgot who I was talking to.So tell me Rosie what would you do?
The fact that they knew they were their and didn't do nothing or tell anyone is the same as hiding them.So what I'm trying to say Rosie grey is be thankful your aloud to be who you are in a country where you can practice your "sexuality" and not have to look over your shoulder.
What exactly was wrong with the commet I made Rosie?
I'm just frank and to the point.Wait let me quess,your one of those people who feel sorry for those starving kids on the commercials that are from a different country, right? You feel more sorry for them, then the little starving kids you got in your own country.
Well,anyway coward,rosie whoever you are,I send my kisses and hugs.
@proudinUS
the only one who needs the a$$ kicking is you. let me guess...your an inbred hillbilly who shoots up a junk heap in his backyard and drinks himself to sleep every night in his trailer and says 'we dont like yer kind round here' to everyone whos not a redneck like yourself right? they dont harbor taliban you jaka$$ the taliban took over, the everyday person over there hates the taliban . get rid of the government and the country will be free from those talibany jerks. george bush jr.s like yourself should walk off a cliff
ROTFLMAO!! You said it!! ProudinUS Oh man and Americans often wonder why the rest of the world aren't that fond of them!
1.Our troops go over and get deserving justice for
9-11.
2.Liberate Afghanistan from the Taliban regime who
hides behind their religion.
3.Make sure every taliban is brought to justice.
4.make sure we stay in country and make them pay back
every dam cent it cost to rebuild our towers.
5.Take 1/3 of oil for them hiding Taliban.
6.Nah! take 1/2
7.Take ALL oppium. (for medical purposes of course)
8.Stay out of bussiness of what ever they do to their
women(don't care)
9.Send videos of us kicking their a$$ to rest of the
muslim world so nothing like 9-11 ever happens
again.
10.wake up and start all over if needed.
Im proud of OUR men and women overthere.These talibash,,
telegas,,, teleport, ah, hell who cares.The only reason these punks are getting so much attention is because of the media.I say we bomb,take what they owe,and leave the dessert to the snakes.
We dont have to understand a dam thing about a country who's hiding the trash that thrashed our soil.You left winged punks who say we should tolerate and embrace a culture that hates us because of our way of living can kiss my a$$.
PS.There's no compassion felt for those people who do self inflicking sh%t.
I have received mail accusing me of being Islamophobic - I would have thought my first made it clear I am not. To be phobic (i.e. fearful or hating) of anything you must, by definition, have strong feelings about that subject. In my previous post I made it clear I do not hate Islam, I just don't care about it. It means nothing to me. It plays absolutely no part in my life, nor do I want it to, nor will I allow it to. I will not read the Koran to "educate" myself on the subject, I will not learn or use all the Arabic phrases or abbreviations that seem increasingly common.
As I said previously get all our troops out of Afghanistan - their situation and their future haven nothing to do with us. What the Afghans choose to do with their country and how they do it is none of my business - let's run our own affairs and leave them to theirs.
It is amazing that even after watching the documentary that people could argue instead of thinking what they could do to better understand other people. This is about families, neighbours and friends being terrorized. Put down your politics and blinders. Step into their shoes for a moment as a human being. or are you a human being?
No matter who you are and what you believe, take a moment to stop and THINK how we are lucky to voice our own opinions, right or wrong. Be honest with yourself, we were lucky to be born into this world of safety. To be born in a world of civil war and then Taliban is a nightmare. Count your blessings.
Afghanistan was under soviet rule during 1979-89. The US supported the Afghan Mujahideen to overthrow the soviets and by the grace of god , it happened. But after the soviets left the region , even america like a scary cat left the region. This was because the leaders of the Afghan mujahideen were educated people from outside afghanistan who were mostly foreigners like arabs , chechens , european muslims etc.and they would in turn establish a modern islamic state which america never wanted. Then this led to a chaotic civil war by mad warlords due to lack of a centralised govt. and they inflicted huge damage on the afghan people from 1990-95. They use to kill many people who opposed them. They raped hundreds of muslim women and did horrible things to them like the serbs of the balkans. Then all of a sudden , a new man rose to the seen - Mullah Mohammad Omar. He started a small movement against these warlords to get rid of them and there tyranny. Fortunately, many locals and foot soldiers of the Afghan mujahideen supported this cause under the banner called "Taliban" meaning "Students" in pashtun language. By god's grace , they conquered whole of Afghanistan and got rid of the warlords from afghan mainland and cornered them to noth-eastern state of Badakhshan. America , happy by the change of events ordered three muslim countries Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and UAE to accept the Taliban regime.
But, during this Taliban regime, complete peace was established under the unitary rule of Taliban. There were no murders,no rapes, no poppy cultivation as per the islamic laws. This scared the west as it got alarmed to see the achievements of the illitrate Taliban. It was something the western capitalism couldn't achieve. Moreover , the Taliban didn't let america lay oil pipelines from central asia which america couldn't tolerate. So, america planned and did 9/11 all by itself to invade afghanistan. And , it invaded with the help of the old brutal Afghan warlords (Northern Alliance) multiplying civilian atrocities.
As far as killing of the women is considered , muslims only kill those who practice rape , prostitution which is not at all wrong. And the whole of the muslim world accepts it.
The west created a small groups of modernists and imposed their modernist view on the whole of muslim world.
Quran does not state that a man may beat his wife... Islam is a religion of peace...
A wife has as many rights as her husband...even a wife can divorce her husband if he does not make her satisfied in the bed!
Please do not be blind followers. Read the Quran as a book and see this for yourself rather than rely on propaganda.
saalam
No God could permit such things to happen, therefore I believe that there is no God, only evil people and those who suffer because of them. We are on our own.
What annoys me most is the Western sense of guilt and feeling we MUST accommodate the mad mullahs and their medieval ideas. I keep being told to read the Koran before I pass any comment. No thank you. Islam has NO place in my life, nor do I want it to have nor will I let it have. When people preach at me about what is happening in Afghanistan or Iraq or wherever, thet seem incapable of understanding the simple fact that I don't care - Ilam is of no importance or interest to me nor will I allow it to be so.
The UK is no longer a major or imperial power and we should stop behaving like one. We have absolutely no business in Afghanistan and that appalling and barbarous country is not worth one British life or one drop of british blood.
Read my limps - I don't care - let us run the UK not the world.
@Sacha
"May God guide us all to a much better world!"
Can't you see that it is precisely this 'god' thing and the belief in this 'god' thing that is at the center of all the horror?
If you really want a "much better world," you will struggle together with other good people to rid the world of this 'god' thing and superstitious belief in this 'god' thing.
WOMEN NEED TO BE GIVEN MORE POWER
One of the reasons the world is in the mess it is in is because men have for too long grasped the reins of power and been the ones in control. They have had far too much power for their own good - and this is not in the interests of any of us!
Men have the potential to be barbaric, cruel, greedy, relentless, uncaring, ruthless, violent and competitive warmongers. The potential havoc that they can wreak is seen in this film. If women were the ones in control, or if power were more equally distributed between women and men, then I doubt that we would see this pattern.
Please note that I am certainly not saying that all women are perfect and all men evil. However, there are certain general characteristics which we can observe.
Women are generally caring, kind, compassionate, nurturing, co-operative and peace loving. Women are a very strong force for good in the world. Unfortunately, however, women's skills and qualities, in terms of helping to build a more peaceful and just world are often overlooked.
I am a Baha'i. The Baha'i Faith (which originates in Iran) teaches the equality of men and women, that we should be as two wings of a bird. If the two wings are not equally developed, then the bird cannot fly: It also teaches that until and unless women enter fully into the affairs of the world, we will not have world peace. I like this quote:
"The world in the past has been ruled by force, and man has dominated over woman by reason of his more forceful and aggressive qualities both of body and mind. But the balance is already shifting; force is losing its dominance, and mental alertness, intuition, and the spiritual qualities of love and service, in which woman is strong, are gaining ascendancy. Hence the new age will be an age less masculine and more permeated with the feminine ideals, or, to speak more exactly, will be an age in which the masculine and feminine elements of civilization will be more evenly balanced."
I believe that not only in Afghanistan, but all over the world, the mighty talents of women need to be recognised and promoted, for the betterment of humanity and of the world.
I admire all the brave people in this documentary - women and men, who have spoken out and are standing up for what is right. I especially admire Saira Shah and the film crew for braving Afghanistan and bringing this report to us. Thank you to you all.
May God guide us all to a much better world!
Secondly.
I don't know how anyone who has read both the Quran and the King James Bible (or any other) can honestly say that Muslims have the most violent.
I have read passages in the Old Testament where God asked his chosen people to annihilate every living thing in a city deemed unholy by their choices.
Not only the men and women were to be slaughtered, but also the children, infants and all, before moving on to the animals.
I don't recall anything like that in the Quran!
The difference is that most people seek out those passages that support their hatred of Islam while ignoring the same in their own book.
I am a nonbeliever of both so I don't care who has the most violent sacred text.
I just know that neither is peaceful by a mile.
Some have asked what this woman's crime(s) was. She was accused of adultery by her husband. He threatened her with Taliban justice and that same night she killed him.
This, in fact, is NOT the same as our justice system.
One, we have abolished the death penalty. Two, there are constitutional rights granted to all Canadian citizens and a criminal justice system, however flawed it is, that protects those accused of a crime.
Powerful documenary.
Kiran. Didn't you read the Quran and Hadiths? All of the things I mentioned from the Quran and Hadiths IS the subjugation of women by Islam, unless you want to claim that the Quran and Hadith are not Islam.
Irshad Manji lives in Canada where she is free to practice her watered-down form of Islam. But if she lived in Afghanistan or Pakistan under Taliban rule, or in Saudi Arabia, she would have been arrested and maybe even killed a long time ago. She knows that and is the reason she is calling for a "reformation" of Islam. Why do you think so many Muslim women are against the idea of Sharia law in Canada? Because they know they will be abused and mistreated.
And Irshad is a supporter of gay rights. Are you saying that gay rights is supported by the Quran and Hadiths? Wake up, Kiran.
If Islam subjugates women, then why do you think 51% of Muslims are women- why feminist intellectuals like, Shirin Ebad, Irshad Manji, Amna Wadud, etc. choose to be Muslims? Your logic falls flat.
Many on here keep repeating the mantra that Islam has nothing to do with the atrocities committed by groups like the Talian. But I don't agree. Islam is the inspiration behind most of the atrocities committed by Muslims today. They haven't hyjacked a peaceful religion. They are practicing Islam the way it was originally taught and practiced by its founder, Muhammed. So-called moderate Muslims are not being true to the original Islam and are practicing a watered-down Islam.
Muhammed stated in the Hadith that the majority of the population of hell are women. The Quran states that it takes the testimony of 2 women to equal the testimony of one man. The hadith state that women are not as intelligent as men. The Quran states that a husband has the right to beat his wife. The Quran states that a wife cannot refuse her husband for sex (in other words, she can be raped). And on and on it goes. If this is what the religion of Islam states, then one cannot expect anything else but an environment, a culture, a lifestyle that abuses women. And we see this everywhere in the Islamic world. It is Islam itself that must be outlawed and eradicated. If we aren't serious about doing that, then you might as well keep saying, "oh well, that's too bad".
kglobal16 - thank you for your comments. It is very good to see other people recognise this.
Culture is not uniform throughout any population, and I'm sure those from the US who have written here would not want to be seen as part and parcel with the Bush administration and its policies, though to an outsider they may well be seen as part of 'American culture' as it looks like to the rest of the world, just as Afghans and even Muslims get tarred with the same brush. It is much easier to call another group's ways their 'culture' without seeing the diversity and conflict within that group, while at the same time distancing yourself from those who do not agree with you in your own culture.
It is unfortunate that the critique of 'other' cultures (I could well call a major part of British culture another culture to mine) always seems to come down to a childish slanging match between who did what first and who was worst. I.e. people assume if you criticise the Taliban you assume America or Europe is perfect, which is not necessarily the case.
If our own country's history and politics has to be perfect before we can criticise anything, then we are forever doomed to tolerate inhumanity just because that is what has happened before. And it has happened in all of our cultures, in the grand and bloody history of human development.
Better not to say 'let he who is without sin cast the first stone'; better to encourage free criticism of yourself and others alike (both inside and outside of 'your culture'), and to encourage dialogue between those who criticise and those who believe they are right.
But this last comment:
'you can judge a culture by they way they treat women in the culture.'
This is a problematic statement. By the way 'they' treat women? To the extent that culture belongs equally to women and men, and women play an equal part in creating that culture, and culture is no longer something men do to 'their' women... that is how we can judge.
AmadeoXI - your comments on the burqa France and 'my house my rules' are surprisingly illiberal for someone who is advocating tolerance and understanding of other cultures. Do we only tolerate difference if it is nicely segregated from us in another country? Is that what tolerance means, you can do it as long as I don't have to look at it? What does freedom of religion mean to you? These burqas in France do not hurt anyone except those with intolerant sensibilities; and in any case, those who wear them are a tiny, tiny minority.
Western European countries, and the US, are already more than ready to allow to all to 'oppress ourselves'. Cue media industry which broadcasts damaging and unrealistic ideals of the female body, which are so widespread you cannot escape from, the dieting industry, the plastic surgery industry. High heels can be called self-oppression. Not even to mention smoking, which you could say is the epitome of self-oppression.
The point is, one action, like wearing the burqa, does not mean the same thing to all people. All of these things, the burqa, plastic surgery, high heels, dieting, and smoking, represent an attempt to build a viable identity for oneself in a world which encourages certain norms about the way you are supposed to behave. In that sense, these can said to be empowering; it is the norms that are oppressive, but to punish the individual people who are trying to cope for themselves in that system of norms is hardly fair or productive.
As a woman in the UK, i can see why it might be appealing to hide yourself from the stare, comments and unwanted attention of men, that certainly at least every woman I know has suffered at some point in their lives, some to more serious degrees than others. No one is talking about the sexual harrassment and unwanted attention which occurs on a daily basis to women in these 'liberated' countries, where we are 'free' to wear what we like (as long as we don't mind putting up with this harrassment, and probably an unfair trial which will focus on whether we were 'asking for it' with our outfits if we happened to be raped). We need to change the situation where women are always forced to react to men's inability to take responsibility for their own oppressive actions, and stop talking about what women are wearing.
As for those women in France who are forced to wear the burqa, do you really think that this law will improve the situation for them? If they are already forced in decisions like this, it seems more likely that their husband or family will simply not let them go outside if they cannot wear the burqa. This law will not help those who are oppressed; it will only make it harder for them.
TheRididill, I think you put it perfectly that "The rest would do well to remember that when they are talking about a ‘different culture’, they are talking about the ruler’s culture, not the culture of those they murder, and oppress..."
Even I have to catch myself when watching documentaries on any political, social or otherwise subject of a country other the one I personally know, and remember it's the ruling class or government that dictates/mandates how a culture is shaped and its subjects behave which unfortunately inaccurately colors the perspectives of outsiders looking in.
I'm a permanent resident of the US and have been so for over 27 years (most of my life) and was born, not raised, in an African country split between Muslims and Christians, and teeming with corruption and instability. I call America my residence but I call the world my home because I'm not one to live in a place and judge without knowing of that "other" place I've never been to.
Though America is a progressive country as far as allowing personal freedoms and generally protecting civil liberties, the people at the top (the government running the country and the people who have influence over the people who run the government) of this country (both past and present) have hands just as dirty and bloody as other "barbaric" and "cruel" governments and pseudo-governments of past and present. Maybe it seems through Western eyes that the Taliban, North Korean government, Iranian figure heads, etc. are more cruel because they're more blatant about their cruelty and America, the UK, and so forth are more "civilized" in hiding it. Either way, we can see it as a difference in cultural perspective rather than one culture is better than another which, I don't think can ever really be quantified outside the strength of personal opinions, mores, and so forth.
I choose, and remind myself to choose to "judge" a culture/country by the people who live under the people in "charge" because they'll tell/show you what it is to be a Muslim, an America, a Pakistani, a North Korean, an Iranian, etc. And even then, you still have to consider the opinion of and experience of many, not one or a few, to get a sense of an overall culture.
And kuddos to Candide33 for commenting on the women of Afghanistan. And thanks Waliyah for bringing to light how the oppression of women seems to too often be overlooked as if almost either too taboo or too "unimportant" to study, discuss, and genuinely try to alleviate from any culture. There's that saying that you can judge culture by the way they treat their children. But I think more than anything, you can judge a culture by they way they treat women in the culture.
Amadeo, Qais. I ask you, what would you do in such a situation, knowing you were threatened with death? What do you know of her situation? How likely is it that she was free to marry? How do you know she was not beaten or abused, forced to marry at age 9 to someone she knew nothing of? Maybe she was, maybe she wasn't. But don't be so quick to condemn her and justify her murder for 'not controlling herself'. It may not be right, but I don't think you can judge it so black and white, when it is clearly such a desparate situation there for all.
And candide33, thank you. The rest would do well to remember that when they are talking about a 'different culture', they are talking about the ruler's culture, not the culture of those they murder, and oppress. Not those who are resisting, who want to tell the world about the atrocities the Taliban has committed that we saw in this documentary.
Yes. Thank you Candide33. Not enough is said about the women. We have lived too long in human existence where the woman is abused fatally and the subject is treated like "oh, well, that's too bad". Although I will say that its only these fundamental muslims that practice this barbarity and there are many who walk in peace. Personally, religion has proven to be as backward as war.
Thank you, Candide33. Thank you for saying just what I was thinking.
Thank you. Great documentary. Very intelligent buch of viewers. Enjoyed your exchanges Amadeo/Big Dippper. Yes, the Taliban is not a reflection of Muslim popular thougth! And I'm still on the fence with regard to what our forces are planning in Afghanistan. Lets just hope that they have really gone in there to liberate the oppressed not the opium!
In Afghanistan they call everything a woman does adultery, not wearing a complete veil in public is adultery, Leaving the house without permission is adultery, answering the phone is adultery, Speaking to any man not directly related to her is adultery, opening the door is adultery, opening a window is adultery.
They executed an old women for letting a repair man in into her apartment. They paint the windows black and keep the women and children in stifling heat just so that no man might catch a glimpse of them.
Any time a man wants a new wife he accuses his current wife of adultery and has her killed and he does not need any proof because his word worth 4 testimonies and hers is only worth 1/2 of a testimony.
They have already killed so many females that there are not enough women of child bearing age for every young man to have a wife. With no chance of ever having wives and children of their own, men might as well go fight.
That is the real reason the Taliban murder women and girls by the thousands, either by execution or bombing market places or throwing acid on them, to keep brides off the market so that they can easily persuade young men to join them with promises of perfect virgins in heaven after they die.
Dear All,
I read your comments on the video. I am glad to find some comments especially those of AmadeoXI were really interesting. I belong to Afghanistan, especially Kandahar province the heart of Taliban stronghold, their birthplace. I was brought up and raised in Afghanistan, in a culture which has its own code of conduct known as Pashtonwali.
We Afghans have always lived a life far more open, natural and social where women socially participated in every aspect of life even war. I have not only studied the history of our country but also lived with various types of people from all over the country. We still preserve the national culture and our code of conduct which will never go away from us.
In this documentary the lady's act of committing adultery is not permissible in either codes 1. Pashtonwali, 2. Religion of Islam. Nor is killing her husband permissible to her. So she should not be supported or backed in any case.
But besides this I am not also in support of Taliban as Taliban were not from among Afghans inhabiting this country, nor did they follow the Afghan code of culture or the Islam we were practicing for centuries. They were a group of Afghan students who studied in ISI (Pakistani Intelligence) supported religious schools in Pakistan during Afghan's migration in Pakistan 1980 - till now and are still being funded, paid and fed by the Pakistani agency. I prayed 5 times a day from my early childhood out of my own interest and the salavation it gave me. During the Taliban regime I was forced to pray my one time prayer 3 - 4 times as Taliban militia with heavy duty cable pieces in their hands would beat me if i didn't pray as they required me to do so. They took 1 person from every family which owned a shop, house, land etc to fight for them as a soldier or they had to pay heavy taxes. People of kandahar and other areas were forced to join them, and when they did so, they got their support. Among the Afghan communities the most marginalized are the Imams or priests who don't even have a means of earning their living. The Taliban (religion students) gave great respect to these padreys and supported them to work for Taliban as their intelligence in every street. What elese would the poor and hungry priest want. This made them strong. While people were helpless against them.
In Taliban regime, the borders to pakistan were so uncrolled that we could go to Pakistan as if we are traveling between cities in Afghanistan. This proves their strong ties with Pakistan Government. Pakistani soldiers from forces and police joined the Taliban in combats against the northern allies and former warlords.
Even now that the Taliban are fighting back, they don't have the support of local population and are forcing them to provide shelter to taliban fighters. People are always unarmed and helpless.
Neither do we support US because again most of our people die in their combats against taliban because the bloody US soldiers can not differentiate between ordinary Afghans and Taliban fighters all because taliban do not wear a specific uniform but the local afghan clothes.
We request both of them to go fight in open areas. Whosoever is victorious come take the government as we don't give a damn. And let us live our own way as we used to live before the soviet invasion.
Big Dipper, That was an excellent retort; articulate and concise. You should be an editor [if your aren't already].
This also isn't the first and only doc. showing a middle eastern woman being publicly executed for a crime that a MAN gets only a $6.00 fine for committing. And, if this isn't bad enough, then look up the story on Atefah Rajabi Sahaaleh; a 16 year old girl who was publicly executed for being raped by her Uncle.
The three young gurls, just a small numbr in many, so sad.... Such a misery of the possibility of what we humens can become...
How about killing is wrong, and never justified? full stop. US kills...wrong.
Taliban kills- WRONG.
So what the f!@£ are you people doing about it besides being opposed to eachother in your views?
And Sally, GOD isn't going to stop anything, YOU have to get off your a$$ and do something if you want a change.
Don't sit back and expect a miracle that will never happen.
and Andrine...please...ARE you a Native American?? really?? or was it your parents parents parents grandparents parents uncles cousins sisters.........? Come on, I've heard that one a dozen times before.
Julia..... :O
Brad, very subtle :-D. But I really like it :-D
Good one Julia. I can`t believe no one has thought of that..............you`d think even the events of Sept 11 might have provoked a response from someone.........
The narrator neglected to mention that the US helped the Taliban seize power by supplying them with weapons. The US meant for the Taliban to be a puppet Gov with the US pulling the strings. As with other governments "we" helped into power, the Taliban also turned on us.
By the way, the US will have it's own Taliban if the Ultra-Fundamentalist Christians(Think of the Pat Robertson types of followers) ever establish a strong foot-hold in government.
Amadeo:
You write, "However, the problems begin when one views his truth as objective and solitary (cue the Catholic Church, Third Reich, Bush-era United States, Muslim extremists)."
You forgot Imperialist Britain, on which the Union Jack never set. As a Native American, I never forget from whence the Mayflower sailed.
WTC7:
I'd like to add that French women didn't get the right to vote until 1944. Oh, those enlightened French!
Lastly, why we "westerners" incessantly get our panties in a wad over anti-muslim/Taliban sentiment is puzzling. It's not time well-spent. Muslims are perfectly capable of defending themselves.
I know full well that throughout my experience as a college student (undergrad, graduate school and law school), students can make whatever derogatory statement they wish regarding Christians. There's simply no equal time for the criticism of other major religions in any institution of higher learning, that I'm aware of.
So, no need to fuss. There's a moratorium on publicly speaking against Islam. People are simply too afraid. I hope that allays your fears.
Big Dipper, my apologies as it seems that I have wrongly taken the views you presented in your post as somewhat discriminatory and one-sided.
I am very glad to see that the discussion at hand is actually taking a healthy direction. My understanding of the world we live in is very simple - it is a diverse and wonderful place. The differences that exist between cultures are a vast resource for learning, not only about others but about ourselves.
Having said that, I need to make it clear that in no way do I approve of the manner the Taliban run Afghanistan. Given my upbringing and education, I look upon it with dismay. Yes, from my point of view it's brutal and unjust. But that is, to a larger or lesser degree, characteristic of every totalitarian regime. Using ideology or religion to control people's lives is not something that is particular for the Taliban regime alone. Throughout history we find those in every corner of the world. The Taliban have probably taken it to the extreme, though.
Talking about the rights of women, for example, need I remind how long did it take for them to be granted with the right to vote in some of the most advanced Western democracies?
In Switzerland that right was granted to women in 1971 only (with exception of several cantons, which rejected it at the time). The same country held a referendum in 1985 to grant equal rights for men and women in the family. And only in 2004! they held a referendum to introduce a paid maternity leave. In Lichtenstein women got the voting right in 1984.
I am certainly not attempting to compare the Taliban regime and Swiss democracy, but am just trying to point out that our praised (by us) Western civilization is also still struggling with some deeply rooted backwardness.
WTC7 - thank you, I'm glad to hear you agree with my views.
Big Dipper,
My comments weren't directed at your personally, and of course no personal offence was meant. When I argue, I argue with heat; it is only natural when one feels strongly about a subject. Now that I read your responses, I was perhaps too harsh in labeling you, as it seems we do have a lot in common.
As to the Taliban - I'm well aware that their regime is barbaric. However, some (not all) aspects of Muslim culture were only adopted, not invented by their regime. The capital punishment for murder that this video speaks so negatively of, for example, is not a Taliban invention, and is something which the West should take a hard look at. Wartime deaths aside, civil murder is very rare in radical Muslim societies, simply because it is punishable by death. They have not grown weak over the ages as we have, and do not treat convicted murderers and sex offenders as valued guests in detention facilities. As to the veil itself, I agree with you, that will never be accepted by our society, nor does it need to be. I will even go so far as to say that wearing veils should be prohibited in Western nations, because allowance of such blatant practices is way over the line. "My house, my rules" (or something to that effect) goes the old adage, and to an extent, it is very appropriate. We are giving our citizens limitless freedoms already; let us not give them the freedom to oppress themselves as well.
You are right about Israel; they have long outgrown their position of innocent victim, and Obama is rightly decreasing US support for them. The Israelis have the advantage of not being Muslim, therefore of not being villified by the ignorant population of much of the world. That will likely not change. The Middle Eastern situation is a Gordian knot - if one is not willing to cut through it in one stroke, one would do well to leave it untouched.
The point I want to make clearest is that it is wholly appropriate to gain insight into another society, evaluate it, consider it, and conclude it incompatible and even barbaric according to one's own subjective practices. As long as this is an educated and provable opinion, not blind hate, such beliefs are perfectly natural and even necessary. However, the problems begin when one views his truth as objective and solitary (cue the Catholic Church, Third Reich, Bush-era United States, Muslim extremists). That is delusion, and what bothers me is this is the primary reaction on both sides of the argument on topics such as the one in this film.
Big Dipper, it is a pleasure to speak with you and others here, and I look forward to continuing the discussion.
WTC7 - I do try to understand, I really do. The site is amazing and Vlatko does an amazing job. I think he really wants people to engage, as this is what it is all about. It is nice to hear AXI's point of view and that he speaks your voice. But I am not aggressive, and would also be happy to engage on the subject with you. I do respect your opinion, and I honestly mean that.
AmadeoXI - I have to say, there is nothing you have written on the subject I don't agree with. My point stays the same tho. The culture of the Taliban (not afghanistan, or the muslim culture, but just the Taliban) will never mix. We do see the regime as barbaric. I see the regime as barbaric.
Despite your mail, that will not change. It is how the people view it, it is how I view it.
You wrote:
"We westerners, do we shudder at the thought of how many human beings our soldiers slaughtered today?"
Totally. You're not going to find a bigger antiwar guy than me. I was in Egypt for two years, and during that time the war kicked off. I was ashamed. Totally. I no longer live in the UK now. I guess my motivations are childish, but I am happy where I am and I can't bring myself to want to live there anymore. I love and miss my family. I see them less often than I would like. So I don't think I need convincing of was the war bad or not. And that goes for the whole shabang, the mother ship of which is Palestine. I am like everyone else who thinks and reads. I feel helpless. UN resolution after resolution, with no-one willing to stand up and tell the Israeli's to back off. The West is too silent. It is an invasion, and responsible borders need to be recognized by Israel. It makes me angry too that the army in Israel is paid for by the US. If they have such power, why don't they quietly remind them of that and get them to behave. And like us all, I feel helpless, which makes me angry.
And I do not think the Taliban represent the Muslim community world wide. So lets put that aside. Because for this conversation, it is irrelevant. My comment is on the Taliban.
And they are a brutal regime, backward in thought and bullying in their tactics. They just are. My thoughts on that will not change, and I think I have a good handle on what others think too, not that it of any concern, but it verifies my opinion that I do not see others as changing their view either. The Taliban is just not mixing well with the Western culture. Like the black full veil burka. It just isn't going cross. And there is where the conflict lies in relation to the cultures.
But in terms of the justice of it all, I think we have more in common than you think. It isn't black and white. There are a--holes on all sides. I think the Taliban represent one of those sides.
I am sorry we haven't hit it off, but I respect your thoughtful comments, and your desire to want to engage. I come in peace.
AmadeoXI,
Well done! I simply needed here to tell you that. I truly enjoyed in reading your post. If such attitude prevailed in our world, we would be living in a more peaceful one right now. On the other hand, it's so easy to condemn something one doesn't understand (and Big Dipper doesn't seem to even try to understand). Bravo! :-)
Hello Big Dipper. A round of applause for your oh so kind and well-meaning "dressing down" of Casan. Also kudos fot the arrogance, the condescencion, and the hypocrisy. Bravo. You are the prime example of the type of people who are at the heart of the world's inability to come to terms with its diversity. The phrase "get over yourself" applies to you, and you only. Let me elaborate.
You arrogantly dismiss all notion that the Taliban culture carries any validity simply because you, a westerner, deem it "barbaric and cruel". You, who have not lived through generations of Muslims, who have not understood perhaps why some (and I say some, because every culture has flaws) things are necessary and acceptable, are hardly qualified to pronounce judgement. What really kills me is that you try to justify your downright bias against a foreign culture with some sort of moral and ethical argument. I would respect you more if you outright stated that you are against them because you disagree with their way of life. That your morals, not universal in any regard, do not allow a culture like theirs to exist, and you, a crusader of western thought, will change it to suit your own beliefs. This is, at least, an honest assessment. Your pretension as to Muslim culture being "barbaric and cruel" in some universal manner is, frankly, ridiculous and short-sighted. Bloody hell, the western culture has had and still has no fewer atrocities in a moral sense that does theirs!
Understand, murder is morally reprehensible in every society. However, it is also an accepted part of life in every culture. We westerners, do we shudder at the thought of how many human beings our soldiers slaughtered today? We don't have a clue. Why is this? Because we feel what our soldiers do is justified. Justified by our own moral code. What the Taliban do is also justified, by their own moral code. Murder is the end result in both cases. Are you attempting to say our murder is more justifiable than theirs?
At least take the high ground and call ALL murder barbaric. But...then WE become just as much in the wrong as they. The plot thickens. Oh, and let me remind you that the woman in the video KILLED HER HUSBAND WITH A HAMMER because she could not take responsibility for her own behaviour. The old proverb states "eye for an eye". Justifiable? Certainly, for premeditated murder. In so many cases, this type of judgement would be an excellent deterrent. Repeat offenders in murder and sexual assault come to mind.
You say this barbarism must be condemned and "put to a full stop". Ironic, because the United States in Iraq attempted to do exactly that, no matter what their motives were. And for years now a sizable portion of the Iraqi population wants them out, risks death every day to remove America from Iraq. Are they ignorant and misguided? Didn't they simply want to be saved from all this oppression? What about the girls who demand the right to cover their face while living in Western countries? Are they misguided as well? Do they need to be taught a lesson in justice by forcing them to obey our enlightened rules? Isn't THIS the essence of barbarism, this total lack of consideration for the beliefs of other cultures, the foolish surety that our own view is universally right, and theirs wrong?
I was also raised and endorse the western way of life. However, I am willing to admit that we may be wrong in labeling these people, who have lived for centuries in a completely different environment, both physical and social, "barbaric", and "cruel". Where our focus must lie is in eradication of radical groups who perform wanton violence, yet keep firmly in mind that these groups are present not only in their, but also in our culture.
barbaric brutality .... they are Stuck in religion n Gods . . .
Talibans way of thinking is barbaric criminal and inhumane, it's a disagrees to the human race.
I applaud the French president to ban women for covering their face,otherwise we would soon impose our countries to the Taliban laws
Casan - Good afternoon. I think you are in an army of 1.
We see a difference between "them" and "us".
It seems you are impressed at your ability to argue a point. That may well be, but choose your battles carefully. This one you will lose. The phrase "get over yourself" comes to mind.
You say "It is not mentioned what crimes the woman was accused of!" - it says adultery in the movie. In the west, adultery is punished by personal guilt and possible divorce, but it is dealt with as a private matter not requiring external moral governance.
Your views are accurate to a point. They are not doing it to be evil. Possibly. Possibly not, but none of that makes the western viewer feel an affinity towards the Taliban. It is their actions, and the impact of their actions that they are concerned with, and not their motivations. That is their own business.
When dealing with subjects that involve unequivocal barbarity, it is always good to condemn it, and then put in a full stop. The main issue that people will argue with you on is the word "but".
When condemning such barbarity to fellow humans, regardless of cultural differences, the word "but" always signals that the author has not understood the magnitude of repulsion that people feel. For example, "I like gays, but........", or "I know Hitler was bad, but....". A full stop always helps get the point across.
Yes, they may not be evil, and yes, they have a totally different culture. The answer in the west to that is "so what"?. None of that means that we have acceptance of it. It just will not happen. Except maybe Bradford, UK.
Secondly, if you can find me a documentary or film, that does not edit the film to the music, to produce the desired effect, then please show me. Every film maker does it. Even silence says something. ALL editing produces a desired effect. It is part of their art, and helps to drive home their message. Because this is their message, and not yours. If you do not like it, then make your own film. I think you will find it impossible to make without having any personalized editorial input.
But the idea that film makers can't use music to achieve a result is the type of thinking the Taliban promote. It is, to say the least, a quite juvenile and immature comment. I apologize for the dressing down, but I am happy to be challenging you on it.
I think to accuse the watchers of being "uniformed" is exceptionally ironic, and a wee tad arrogant. There are others in this world, other than yourself, who are allowed to hold a point of view, possibly different from your own. That position does not necessarily make them "uninformed". I am sure the viewers have watched this, and made up their mind about the situation based not only on this film, but in conjunction with all the other information they have gathered on the subject throughout their life.
But it would be wise to understand that the West are not going to come around to the Talibans way of thinking. They have jobs, lives, children, and other subjects that interest them. They can only be expected to devote a small amount of their time to this problem, and the jury has come in. Indeed, most people have little interest in Taliban culture. To us, as you insinuated, the Taliban are a backward, brutal regime of thugs, destabilizing the region, and preventing recovery and growth in Afghanistan, and it is the evident conclusion the West have reached.
This film I think confirmed their views, rather than changed them.
This is totally a misleading documentary!! Playing sounds of violin and editing it in such a way to make the uninformed person draw the desired conclusion.
1) Yes, the justice system of the Taliban is barbaric and crude, but they don't do it with any more different motive than the U.S where prisoners are executed. The only difference here is the method! That they do it in public for all to see as required by their religion. It is not mentioned what crimes the woman was accused of!
2) The Taliban treatment and view of women is backward, and that is how it has been and still is in many muslim and non-muslim countries. It wasn't long ago that woman were not considered a "person" in the west. So they are behind? Due to economics?
3) The documentary is too eager to show the injustice without putting it into context, so the Afghans are now a victim of it.
4) They are not doing this to be evil!
well done. This isn't a movie against Islam (per se); but a movie about human rights. Please tell others about this
So sad to see innocent people killed so ruthlessly, when will God be able to stop the misery?
Well said Sally...thank you for your positive perception of this documentary.. :)
Stunning!!
These atrocities have to stop!! People there need help and the international community should better liberate them and give them peace rather than build football stadiums!!
salam to all beloved muslim , brother ,and sister . well , i have somthing to say , islam is not like this . woman in islam has got right to work and feed her kids and participate in her society . yet , what we see in this film is horrible , woman are worse then animals , this is not islammm.
may allah give them the right sight .
salam alah alaikom wb
This is so sad! These women and children are suffering so much. Also the innocent civillians do not deserve this. Good documentary!