Atlantis: The Evidence
In this Timewatch special, historian Bettany Hughes unravels one of the most intriguing mysteries of all time.
She presents a series of geological, archaeological and historical clues to show that the legend of Atlantis was inspired by a real historical event - the greatest natural disaster of the ancient world.
She is tracing the origins of the Atlantis myth and presenting evidence that the Thera eruption inspired Plato's account of the mystical land.
2,400 years ago Greek philosopher Plato wrote of an ancient island civilization of unparalleled wealth and splendor, which was struck by earthquakes and floods and was swallowed up by the sea in one grievous day and night.
"But afterwards there occurred violent earthquakes and floods; and in a single day and night of misfortune all your warlike men in a body sank into the earth, and the island of Atlantis in like manner disappeared in the depths of the sea. For which reason the sea in those parts is impassable and impenetrable, because there is a shoal of mud in the way; and this was caused by the subsidence of the island." (Plato, as translated by Benjamin Jowett).
I like Bettany Hughes, but they sure try very hard to convince us that Atlantis is a MYTH as usual. Also, find it strange that the Wikipedia page on Atlantis is locked so only a select few can modify it.
This programme overlooks completely Plato's Timaeus and refers only to his account in the Critias dialogue. In the Timaeus dialogue Plato tells us that he got the story from Solon who had visited Egypt and had been told about the fate of Atlantis from their written records. The idea in this programme that it was a legend based on folk traditions is rubbish. It shows the ignorance of the scholar on whose limited knowledge this programme was based. In Critias Plato clearly developed the story to suit his literary purposes. But it had a historical basis and that has been confirmed by all we now know about the Thera catastrophe.
These BBC shows have a lot of experts and researchers working on them behind the scenes. There is no way they didn't know about the details in Timaeus regarding not only the source of the information but also the descriptions of the location, beyond the pillars of hercules, or the descriptions of the war Atlantis waged against 'all who reside within the pillars of hercules'. They also leave out the dating that Plato gives for the description, 9000 years before the age of Solon, which is exactly the date of Meltwater Pulse 1B. They must have left all this out on purpose and hence the documentary is a fraud.
When Plato said the size of Libya and Asia by Asia I think he meant Turkey
Well, Santorini. Hmm. About 10,000 years too late, according to Critias. Yes, Critias, not Plato. Criticizing Plato is like shooting the messenger, but I digress.
In the Azores you have the Mid-Atlantic Rift, which is constantly erupting forming new sea floor. You have the intersection of 3 tectonic plates, the North American, the European and the African or Nubian.
Under this geological train wreck you have a mantle plume, pumping up magma under the Azores plateau which is a lithosphere plate floating on a caldera but nobody seems to know how big it is. (Can you say SUPERVOLCANO UNDERWATER?) The magma under the plate comes from two sources, the mantle plume mentioned earlier and lithosphere melt caused by the great frictions and pressures involved.
This can be proven by the Helium isotope content of the magma coming from the seamounts covering the lithosphere plateau and the 16 surface volcanoes on the various Azores island group.
Now, if I were Plato and I wanted to make up a story about a sunken island on the Earth, I'd pick this area, too.
The problem is, in Plato's time how would he know all of this? Besides that, as I said, it was Critias who told the story anyway, so go ahead and keep shooting at the messenger and making these fantastic stories and documentaries about Santorini, and Thera.
The more of them that you make, the more egg you will be wiping off your face when science finally proves what really happened. On this one, there can be no archaeological digs.
The destruction was just too immense. In fact, it ended the most recent ice age...and by the way, how would Plato have known about this?
If you want to know why there are no records, I would refer you to the Taliban blowing up the statues of Budda in Afghanistan.
Hey, I was wondering if you had any book recommendations for me if i wanted to look into this further?
Yes it sank beneath the Earths crust bit by bit, it was large land masses and parts of the land masses are exposed especially where we find undersea structures. They fell into the dark side as a bunch of mad scientist thought they could spy on people just like they are doing today with this mindless technology. The moon did not exist then and they tried to pull in a stray body and place it in orbit but it broke in half and part of it went into the Atlantic ocean causing it to expand and this part of a moon is buried deep into the Earths crust, there is a part of the ocean where there is no crust, that could be where it is. The Video is interesting which goes to show things did happen. The people of that time were more advanced than we are today, they had space ships and for thousands of years they were at piece until darkness got in.
Seek and you shall find. After the wipe out of the lands the humans that survived started up the early Greeks and so on Then later an invasion of reptile race took control of this world and humanity has been in the dark ever since, and we are at the time where we are going to be set free, but we will need to help ourselves by waking up and take no notice of the crap spewed out by mindless media, so called education system and other parasites who want to keep you in the dark. the yeti or big foot or what ever each country calls these large creatures are the throw backs as they went backwards due to what happened, and here we are on the fresh hold and we need to wake up, because there are those who desire war and could throw us backward millions of years, if they are not stopped.
How is anybody supposed to understand what you're all talking about? The majority of the comments relating to this Documentary are not even coherent. Why do people believe themselves to be intelligent? This Documentary may or may not be accurate but the truth is, she is fit.
I don't understand everybody in here saying about how Plato wrote s*** when he was born around 450 B.C. ... 2000 years after the presumed cataclysm of Atlantis.. so how the f*** would he be able to witness it and write about it?
Actually it is more like over 9,000 years according to Plato himself. To answer your question, Plato states clearly in Timaeus that the information was passed down to him from his ancester the great law maker Solon, who travelled to Egypt and was given the information by the Priests at the Temple of Zues Amun.
I read Platos account very carefully. It is obvious that his second hand account was definately incomplete and wrong in places. Plato new the difference between an island and a continent. If you read his account carefully it says Atlantis was an island, and then references a continent, but it can not be both. He wrote that it was 9000 years before him and the Athenians defeated the Atlantians. Archiology knows for a fact that Athens and that Greek culture did not even exist that far back. He also said it was larger than Libia and Asia combined. That would have made the land mass larger that 1/2 of the worlds land mass today. It is rediculous to think that a continent that size could just sink into the ocean. Anyone that understands anything about plate techtonics knows that the cause of such a catistrophic disaster would have destroyed all life on earth. There certainly would not have been anyone around to notice it missing the next day! There is only one letter difference in the greek word that was translated "larger than" in the text than a greek word meaning "between" which is exactly where the islands of Crete and Thera are located. They are directly between Libia and Asia. The egyptian records point to Crete, and Thera possibly being its capital and certainly its main traiding port. This video did not bring all the evidence to bare. In the Biblical book of Amos ch 9 the Philistines were from Caphtor which translated from the Strongs concordance means "a reath shaped island" which is exactly what Thera looks like. Archiology shows the Philistine art found in Palistine is near identical to that found on Crete. Also the archiological finds on Thera and Crete match exactly with Platos descriptions. The pillars of hercules are believed by some greek researchers to be a passage which ships passed between islands just off the coast of Greece.
Who said that the Athenians did not exist that far back?..You said archaeology knows ..YES, archaeology knows that under the Parthenon there is a wall dated since 6-7000 B.C. There are some good remains of this wall on the Acropolis at present. Some parts of the wall can be seen at the southeast corner..On the north part of the Acropolis, there remain some ancient walls and foundations of prehistoric date belonging to the ancient palace of the Athenian kings...If you STUDIED Plato's account as you stated ,then you will know that he is talking about Athens before the great deluge of the Aegean 9600 B.C....In the first place you remember a single deluge only, but there were many previous ones; in the next place, you do not know that there formerly dwelt in your land the fairest and noblest race of men which ever lived, and that you and your whole city are descended from a small seed or remnant of them which survived.....Goddess Athena SOLON,founded your city a thousand years before ours, receiving from the Earth and Hephaestus the seed of your race, and afterwards she founded ours, of which the constitution is recorded in our sacred registers to be eight thousand years old...... As touching your citizens of nine thousand years ago, I will briefly inform you of their laws and of their most famous action; the exact particulars of the whole we will hereafter go through at our leisure in the sacred registers themselves. If you compare these very laws with ours you will find that many of ours are the counterpart of yours as they were in the olden time. TIMAEUS OF PLATO PAGE 2 Plagiarism ,and distortion is a crime!
In the first place, it wasn't Plato's great grand uncle, it was the great uncle of a young man named Timeus who traveled all over the ancient known world at a young age, much as Hippocrates, and tried to bring foreign knowledge to his people. His name was Solon and as a young man he traveled up and down the Nile trying to ulneash the secrets of their history to the rest of the world. He finally was able, with stubborness, wicked word-play, (he probably spoke egyptian) to annoy a priest of the first order of Ammon (read scholar, librarian, professor, teacher) who took the young Solon aside and told him (probably in Greek so he would not be misunsterstood) "You are not even what you think you are (your Greek people). You are merely the vestiges of your once and proud civilization. You have died in the great floods, only the shepards and goathedrerers who were in the mountains remain. The Alanteans mounted a great war to take our lands from us and came to the eastern Medditerran to do it. It was the Greek people who met the
Atlaneans and defeated them. Very unususal for a great Superpower of that time to give credit to another, especially one considered a Barbarian. Especilaly a learned man. Unless he was quoting actual history. Coming off his academics intstead of his Pharonics, the aqiecense of Pharonic greatness. He gave heroic stance to Solon, not only for him, but his people. No great empire of this period would have ever done so if it weren't written in the record.
Before trying to correct others try to have your facts straight: it wasn’t Timaeus who told the story but Critias. Timaeus was from Locris in Sicily, Critias was from Athens and he was Plato’s uncle (mother’s first cousin) furthermore, Solon was not young but around his 40’s when he visited Egypt and had a great conversation with a great Egyptian Priest named Sonchis of Sais. Not in private but in front of everyone over diner.
Although I am not sure if Atlantis was real, I do believe it was based on some truth. There is more than enough evidence around the world to support the existance of civilizations existing in our past, that modern man and history has forgotten.
I cannot believe that we went from cavemen, to beings that understood astrology, advanced mathmatics, and the ability to create stone structures that are impossible for us to recreate today, in the timeline offered by our current records of history.
It is obvious that there is much more to the story of mankind. The way we look at our oldest written records as pure fairy tales and mythology is a mystery in itself.
When we cannot understand something in written records, we seem to either discredit it as mythology, or assume that fiction was the first purpose of the oldest text found?
I believe much has been hidden from us in history about our origin, because it didn't fit what the majority was willing to, wanted to, or able to believe.
With our new technology, we are finding so many more ancient sites today, I can only hope that the mysterious origin of modern man will be discovered someday and end the arguments over it among us.
If we are take the landmass of Atlantis being West of the Pillars of Heracles, then I'm surprised that no one has yet looked at the Cape Verde Islands. An archipelago full of volcanoes that were uninhabited until the Portugese discovered them in the 15th Century.
The Santorini theory of Atlantis fails entirely in light of the fact that the Minoan civilization reached its peak on Crete in the century AFTER that eruption. The Minoans were brought down by an invasion of the warlike Achaeans (ca. 1450 BC). And of course the location is all wrong; Plato is very clear that Atlantis was west of Gibralter. It was in fact a supervolcanic island off Portugal that exploded and sank in the 17th century BC (see Roots of Cataclysm, Algora Publ. NY 2009).
It was fiction when Plato wrote it. The Ancients understood Atlantis to be fictional.
Atlantis was NOT Santorini, or Crete's civilization. To understand it, you must follow the hole conversation on Plato's book. The participants of the dialogue mention Santorini as an example of the only similar to Atlantis catastrophe they knew, and made a hypothetical thesis on that. It is quite clear that they knew the difference. Also, Atlantis is clearly mentioned that was outside of the Columns of Heracles, which are at Gibraltar. There are many more elements like these in the original text to make it even more understood as well that we're talking for a continent between Europe, Africa and America.
I can understand that it's a bit difficult for everyone to follow greek philosophers when they discussed about something, but they're supposed to be archaeologists and should know what they're dealing with.
There is no better advise for everyone who is interested about this subject, than reading the text ''Timolaos and Kretias'' by himself from the most direct and precise translation possible.
i can only conclude based on your findings - the old man says, they might have been in a camp somewhere on the island then the lady says it was an organized departure or evacuation, both of them are correct and the latter might have included their writings with them when they evacuated the island and eventually reached the mainland and which plato somehow got hold of it a thousand years later.
you think he just re-published it?
But on the upside there was some interesting things about "bronze age" Crete, none of which had anything to do with Atlantis what about the line to do with it being beyond the pillars of hercules?
And why no mention of the fact that the sea levels rose 400 feet at the end of the last ice age in a geologically short period of time, a complete whitewash by those wishing to hide the truth. Don't waste your time watching this drivel.
Full of false assumptions, factual inaccuracies and out right lies and cherry picked lines that avoided the scope of Plato's account. One of the worst documentaries I have ever seen on the subject. Simply terrible. If you want something closer to the truth of the matter look into the work of Graham Hancock. What a waste of 59 minutes of my time.
i love docs like this!
@debs That's the first thing I thought! She's FIT!
Just a few comments.
1. yes plato heard it from his grandfather who in turn heard it from the Egyptians.
2. I have heard that the size decrepancies were due to a translation error by the Egyptians of a factor of ten. Making the island ten times larger than it actually was. This would explain why it was placed in the "Alantic" ocean rather than the Agean sea.
3. A Volcanic eruption of the size that we now know that Thera had, would have caused massive disruption of all sea faring peoples of the day.
4. The freash water wells on the island of Crete may well have been poisened by saltwater and made unuseable for many years afterward.
5. Remember it was a Bronze Age civilization. Not some advanced civilization as we now have worldwide today.
Yes they were VERY advanced compared to their neibors but not some "star faring race" as some people have sugested.
6. One of the rerasons that they were as advanced was postulated that unlike Greeks and others of that day, the Alantans could and did navigate over open water by use of some unknown knoledge. The Greeks would not sail anywhere that they could not see land to get their berings from. (following the coast line for example)
@dano
Interesting you mention the Azores. I have a sneaky suspicion there was once a large landmass there. If you look at a elevation plan of the area (Google Earth shows it well) you will see some radial marks that could have come from a large volcanic explosion.
This island would have been similar to Iceland, being created by a hotspot beneath the mid Atlantic trench. There would have been many volcanoes just like in Plato's description. It's close proximity to Africa means it could have been one of the first non-African places to be settled. Because it was surrounded by water the volcanic dust would have turned the water to mud just like in the description.
Many people will scoff at the thought though as there is little evidence for an island there let alone a civilisation.
My apologies. I appear to have made myself perfectly redundant without reading all the comments prior to posting. Someday our kin will unearth Chernobyl and treat it like the arc of the covenant. And the reincarnated Steven Spielberg will make another horrible Indiana Jones movie.
Stranger things than Atlantis lying on the sea floor have happened. The Piri Reis Map of Antarctica was discovered centuries before any recent explorers rediscovered the continent; only to find it encapsulated in ice. Hell, the Mayan Calendar is feat. The Aztecs weren't even responsible for creating their own capital. They just moved in after the smarter guys left, or the spacemen forged them to act as a beacon to bounce interstellar transmissions off. Perhaps all the really smart ancient scientists moved to the Azores until they were blown apart by a big undersea volcano and the subsequent earthquake storm that followed. Regardless of the actual existence of a single advanced culture we should gain the assumption that we don't give the ancients enough credit. Our brains haven't changed much in twenty-thousand years and neither has our capacity to absorb knowledge. Only our point of reference has changed. The earth does a good job of burying secrets. In a thousand years LA could very easily be reclaimed by the Mojave and we might be living in another dark age with no recollection of the past glory we had once achieved.
ha ha ha, yes the bible is point of reference for geological questions... c'mon don't embarrass yourself, come around
Skeptic:
quote "Given the limited sea-faring capabilities of the ancient peoples, it’s unlikely the Egyptians would know of any city in the middle of the Atlantic. If Atlantis really existed, it must have been around the Mediterranean. My bet is still with the Minoans."
Actually there has been emerging evidences over the last 50 or so years that the ancients including ancient Egyptians were far more sea-faring capable than believed. Compare Thor Heyerdahl, Charles Hapgood's maps of the ancient Sea Kings, Celts of Caesar's times had high sea faring boats/ships, Great Pyramid geodesic facts, etc. Also there has been tons of evidences of trans-Atlantic preColumbian contacts between Old and New Worlds see Pierre Honore 'In search of the white god", Nigel Davies, Barry Fell "America bc" and "Bronze age America", Sitchin, Bailey "God kings and the titans", Solutrean/Clovis connection, Donald MacKenzie, Jim Allen's "atlantis in bolivia" theory, etc.
Your Keftiou details are interesting/convincing, though I am not convinced that Keftiou [Kaptara/Caphtor?] equates to Crete (and it isn't Thera).
(P.s. Atlas = Shu in Egyptian.)
If you search Bimini / Andros and wall/road/pyramid/temple etc (Cayce? "Atlantis"? "Greek temple"?) you should find some sites with info on those Bahamas/Caribean finds. (Book authors like Charles Berlitz also have it.) I saw an underwater photo of a "Greek like temple" too in some forum but never found it again.
No more ors or maybes [self &/or others] than any other orthodox theory (like evolution and geology and thera/atlantis).
According to the details in ATlantis accounnt its the contrary, Atlantis can't have just been a small island-state not biiger than Crete, but wwas also a continent sized land mass.
The bible is being proven more every year. Last year I found proof of Joseph of genesis in ancient Egyptian recorded history (Joseph/Zaphenath-paneah = Djoserty-Ankh/Sekhemhet of 3rd dyn.)
@ baz- folks believe the tales of the Bible so why not the tales of ancient Greece?
too many or's and maybe's, atlantis could not have been a whole continent, just a relatively small island-state (not bigger than Crete)
Boris:
"... where is that supercontinent now? .... it is not in atlantic ocean...."
It was "in the Atlantic" but is not under the Atlantic (is not (on) the Atlantic bed/floor).
Atlantis was & is (N &/or S) America(s), &/or Armorica-plate (Euramerica/Avalonia/Appalachia).
The Atlantic was once half the present width, then there was a shift widening Atlantic to full present width,
so that Atlantis/America appeared to have sunk (=shifted).
So Atlantis/Americas was (once) "in the Atlantic". (And we could say Americas/Atlantis still is [more distantly] "in the Atlantic".)
(Or alternatively if Atlantis was Armorica plate it was once in Atlantic between America and Europe/Africa....)
One thing I would mention is that the story was apparently told to Plato by his grandfather Solon who, in turn, heard it from the Egyptians.
The Egyptian version is the story of Thoth.
Thoth was born in a distant country to the west which was across a body of water. Its main city was by the sea. The land possessed volcanoes and the city had a low mountain or large hill in the center.
Dr. Paul Schliemann apparently found (not verified) a papyrus stating that Pharoah Sent (or Senta) searched the western lands for the ancient home of Thoth but could not find it. Senta was the 5th king of the 2nd dynasty and ruled around 4000BC. This obviously predates the eruption of Thera so, if true, Thera cannot be Atlantis.
On a side note : there is the ruins of a temple in the Bahamas which has the floor plan of the Egyptian hieroglyph for temple. The temple also resembles the Mayan "Temple of the Turtles" in Uxmal. Could there be a common ancestor to the Mayans and Egyptians that lived around the Bahamas?.....
to sean b.
and where is that super continent now? flew away in the space? it is not in atlantic ocean, thats for sure, so it could not have been so big... this documentary is super plausible
Ramus
I'd be glad to expand on Shift part of my Atlantis theory*, but its not really easiest or practical to post all my evidence(s) or explanation(s) or whole booklet/thesis here, it would be better to give copy of my e-booklet containing all/much of my evidences/info/theory. (Though I seem to come across better replying to people's questions/points than in my writings, like you mentioned about my site articles.) I can't send you it without an e-contact means, you can email me (my hotmail id is vladbam) or PM me in facebook if you want a (free) e-copy. [Note tho that my theory is not completely proven fact or absolutely fully developed/formulated on every possible detail.] To answer your other points:
The account says the continent (& Atlanteans) was "swallowed"/vanished (to Old World's view-point) but that doesn't necessarily mean all the inhabitants perished, though many would have. American Indian myths are full of examples of what you &/or I &/or Plato said: many but not all of the inhabitants perished, some survived the flood &/or fire in caves/etc. Archaeology also has some evidence(s) check out for example Cremo & Thompson's Forbidden Archaeology, (as well as the extinctions of mega-fauna etc.)
Simple reply to events dates is that some of us don't agree (from evidences) that the geological dates/dating for (American) "prehistoric/geologic" (last) event(s) (catastrophe(s), explosion(s), extinction(s), ice age(s)/maximum(s)) is reliable or correct. The extinctions etc evidence is there (like the account implies) its just obscured by wrong dating theory/scheme. Check out Velikovsky, etc. They're not even certain of Thera date. (Or, if you accept the 9000 yrs/bc Atlantis date theory then it is close to the geological 10000 yrs date theory.)
My findings were that Atlantis can't be (adapted to) Antarctica for various reasons, like it can't be Thera or Crete for various reasons either. However in my theory Antarctica could possibly be the Opposite Continent in the Atlantis account. Western parts of Antarctica being less-iced, etc can fit the Opposite Continent which was "[populated in parts of the continent]"; but can't fit Atlantis which was far more populated/covered. The 5th largest continent doesn't fit Atlantis, but Americas the 2nd largest landmass does. Atlantis sinking was not ice.
Arnold, regarding your interesting post info:
Possible synchronisms may be any of:
Job ice (age); Moses darkness, pillar of fire/smoke etc (10/12plagues), Philistines from Caphtor, Syrians from Kir [Krus/Crete?]; Ruth famine/drought (10yrs); David famine/drought (3yrs=same as Amarna one), "foundations of earth discovered", "Cherethites & Pelethites"; Elijah famine/drought (3yrs); Elisha famine/drought.
"Jews" from Crete when Saturn drive out by Jupiter; Thera famine/drought (7yrs, Herodotus).
drought/famine Viswamitra (12yrs).
Date for sea peoples of 1200bc is not necessarily right.
12th dyn(Sesostris) [atlantis?] = moses = c1400bc.
400yrs 15th-19th = 480 yrs Moses-Solomon
18th dynasty (Amarna) = david = c1000bc.
19th dynasty (Ramses2) = shishak.
19th dynasty (Merneptah) = zerah.
@Arnold
The Santorini (Thera) eruption was one of the biggest in recorded history. It ejected over 30 cubic kilometres of magma and its plinian column reached over 30 km high. It caused crop failures as far away as China and plunged the northern hemisphere into a volcanic winter. Typically these conditions last a few years at most but the human recovery may take decades.
I don't think people moved south as conditions would have been bad everywhere and there's no historical records of a northern exodus.
Suggesting it affected events 400 years later is a bit like asking does the flap of a butterflies wing in China cause hurricanes in America? I would have to answer that the 2 events are not directly linked.
However, the Mediterranean would have been a different place if the eruption hadn't happened - the Minoan civilisation would probably still be around for a start. So the geo political landscape would be different and therefore things like the Aegean collapse might never have happened.
Bettany Hughes does a great job tying in the story from Plato written in 400BC that describes the Thera eruption of 1620BC, 1,200 years afterwards.
The eruption of Thera has been calculated to have thrown up 60 cubic miles of volcanic ash and earth into the atmosphere affecting the entire Mediterranean area as far up to Ireland.
But could have the affects been much worse and global in scale?
There is another documentary called the “Aegean Apocalypse” which took place in 1200BC, 400 years after the massive volcanic eruption of Thera. During the “Aegean Apocalypse” all major civilizations in this area fell and were replaced by new ones lead by the “Sea People” from the North.
Four hundred years is a very long time but could the 60 cubic miles of ejecta from the Thera volcanic eruption affected the Earth's climate for up to 400 years forcing the northern populations of Europe south due to starvation from crop failures?
How long would it have taken northern cultures to move south after their harvests had been wiped out due to frost or drought?
What other civilizations around the world were affected from 1620BC to 1200BC. Which ones collapsed due to drought or freezing climates?
A comment came up in the “Aegean Apocalypse” that the volcanic eruption of Thera had caused the eventual collapse of the Aegean area. I checked the dates and there was a 400 year difference. At first I thought there was no way that the volcanic eruption of Thera was related to the “Aegean Apocalypse” however that was before I learned that 60 cubic miles of volcanic ash and earth was thrown up into the atmosphere.
The volcanic eruption of Thera would have had a huge devastating effect on the local Aegean area causing drought, famine and widespread crop failure. This also affected northern climates by cooling them dramatically.
The question is how long would have the Thera volcanic eruption affected Earth's climate? How long would it have taken northern populations to move south experiencing year after year of crop failure?
That the previous Island of Thera is the long lost city of Atlantis now seems to be ironclad. The destruction of the Minoan civilization is now understood having taken heavy assault both from tsunami waves and agricultural failure due to a rapidly cooling planet from the airborne volcanic ash.
Agricultural collapse due to a rapidly cooling planet from the airborne volcanic ash would also explain the sudden weakening of all the Aegean civilizations in the area, leading to their easy conquer by the newly arriving populations and warriors from the north. Driven south by hunger and starvation due to failing northern crops from the dramatically cooler volcanic dust summers.
Arnold Vinette
Ottawa, Canada
I know the geology and history of Antarctica. I was suggesting to Sean that he integrate his "shift" theory with Antarctica rather than America.
It has been proven that Antarctica had some forestation as early as 3 million years ago.
There is evidence that Antarctic glaciation can be extremely rapid. Together with the fact that western Antarctica is less prone to glaciation it seems at least plausible that some life could have survived there until fairly recently (no need for continental wanderings). The end of the LGM (Last Glacial Maximum - 12,5000 years ago) in the northern hemisphere could have been the trigger for full scale glaciation in the south.
Although I believe there is some lost civilisation, I still believe Plato's Atlantis story was just that - a story.
Antarctica cannot be Atlantis. Continental Drift is a slower than slow process. Continents drift at a pace of 1 to 2 centimeters per year. For Antarctica to have moved all the way from the middle of the Atlantic Ocean to the South Pole, would certainly have taken it longer than it has taken us, humans, to evolve from Ape to Man. In other words, if Antarctica has ever been at a different parallel, under a more merciful weather, that could only have happened millions of years ago, when we were too simple a creature to document it or even talk about it around a bonfire.
I prefer the Minoan theory, but this discussion is for Atlantis in general, so all theories are welcome as long as they are on or around Atlantis. There's no disrespect in proposing another theory.
@Sean Bambrough
Being an amateur geologist I would appreciate it if you expanded on your shift theory and how it ties in to Atlantis. If the Americas were Atlantis how did everyone die? Surely America is big enough to find somewhere to hide.
Aside from the extinction events at the end of the Pleistocene (where 75% of mammals became extinct) and the Barringer Crater impact of 50,000 years ago, I do not know of any other extinction events in America. Unless you go as far back as 600,000 years ago to when Yellow Stone last erupted.
We humans have pretty much mapped every bit of land on Earth. Except, that is, under the 2km thick ice of Antarctica. We know Antarctica was once ice free as there is evidence of forests and river systems there. Antarctica is also the fifth largest continent so lots of space for an advanced civilisation.
Try adapting your shift theory to Antarctica and see what you come up with :)
I suppose its not really respectful of me to divert discussion from this topdocumentary person's Atlantis / Thera theory to my Atlantis / America theory. If you (Ramus) would like a copy of my thesis/booklet containing my evidences and answers to 'ifs & buts' you've raised, and/or to continue discussion more look me up on facebook. But just to briefly answer your points:
- in "mythology"/history and geology there have been a number of World Ages and world-scale catastrophes.
- there have been mass extinctions esp the sites from Alaska to Mexico.
- Americas was the early ancient springboard to ancient world navigation [& Pacific islands] just like it was in early modern times.
- Plato said that the Atlantis account was real history, plus other evidences I can't mention here but which I mention in my paper.
- I am familiar too with the Antarctica theory though I hadn't heard the part about Antarctica sliped down from being in the Atlantic. Antactica can't have been Atlantis eg too far (away/down), and other reasons. Americas matches far better eg all the many species of animals.
- I'm not sure about the crust displacement theory being correct or not, some of the eviences seem pretty good like the past pole shifts. My theory is continental shift, whether crust displacement was/is involved/connected I haven't decided on or developed it.
Thanks for answering me.
Skeptic:
Keftiou [Kittim?] may or may not have been Crete, or been Atlantis. Assyrian Kaptara (Hebrew Caphtor) which was under the pole star standing in the zenith. (North Pole was once in North America/Greenland.)
Atlantis may rather have been Amenti/Urani in Egyptian.
There are a number of claimed finds/matches of the royal city &/or palace of Atlantis eg Zanger's Troy, but they don't also find/match the continent of Atlantis (except for the American ones like Jim Allens, Cayces). The "Trojan" or "Atlantis cross" city model was a common pattern compare Troy, Tartessos, etc. Spanuth has some other examples in ancient European art. The Crespi collection includes a figure whoses head looks similar to the Atlantis city (its on my booklet cover).
@Sean Bambrough
I apologise for criticizing your writing. Your last sentence hit a chord with me as that explains almost to a tea why I left school at 13. Schools are indoctrination programs. You write the way you want and ignore pricks like me :)
With regards to your "shift" theory though, I still cannot except large chunks of land slipping over the Earth. If it did happen it would cause catastrophe beyond any super volcano. A continent the size of Asia slipping the distance of, say, the Atlantic Ocean, would probably cause a massive mass extinction. The only life that would survive is bacteria. There is just no evidence for an event of this scale.
I like theories of apocalyptic scale but crustal displacement is just not viable.
I heard that some people believe that Antarctica was Atlantis and it was situated in the middle of the Atlantic but slipped down to its present position, snap freezing everyone. Maybe Antarctica was the home of Atlanteans but the change happened over centuries giving them ample time to leave and settle new lands. If you look at a map with Antarctica in the centre it gives access to every continent on the planet, so would be a great springboard for colonial expansion.
I still have this nagging feeling that Atlantis was just a made up story to use in theoretical essays.
Hi Sean,Please do not let anyone intimidate you . Just wanting to watch the docs posted here shows a wonderful curosity for learning,and that is all that is important.The only standards you need concern yourself with are your own,the rest are unimportant. Learning any way ,any how is important,and having the courage to comment with this bunch shows a good self esteem,don't let anyone here do what bad teachers have done for centuries and pull you down.. Ypur last paragraph was spot on!!!!Lynn
History Channel's Lost Worlds: Atlantis (45 min)
In this Lost Worlds video, we learn of new evidence that Atlantis is located in Crete, Greece. The Palace of Cyanosis was recently found on the island. The palace is the closest match found yet to Plato's descriptions of Atlantis.
This is another documentary based on historical and archeological findings. In it, it is said that - even though the Egyptians called the mysterious civilization "Keftiu", Solon, in his stories, chose to name it Atlantis, instead. The documentary goes on to say that "Keftiu" was also the way the Egyptians called the people of Crete. So this supports the theory that the Minoans were the Atlanteans.
I considered submitting this episode of "Lost Worlds" for inclusion on SeeUat Videos, but given that 2 Greek pieces have already been added to the site in the last 24 hours, it's very likely that this documentary would be rejected. However, I decided to provide its URL here in the comments for those interested in more info on the theory that the history of Atlantis and Crete are intertwined.
Ramus:
"How can a continent the size of Asia sink below the sea?" The only logical answer is that Atlantis sinking was continental shift - as such it would have genuinely appeared to have sunk/submerged/disappeared, rather than other theories which say the account is wrong that it was a continent that sunk.
"Drift" (over millions/billions of years) is a wrong uniformitarian evolutionist theory. There were shifts not just drifting. Certain catastrophist &/or creatinionist scholars have used terms continental shift(s)/sprint(s), + Hapgood the author who is known in connection with earth crust displacement theory also mentioned continents shifting similar to my America/Atlantis. My dissertation includes a section on evidences/proofs of shifts (not drift) including Tiahuanaco, and supervolcanoes.
There are supervolcanoes are in Americas which are evidence in favour of my shift theory.
Ok I didn't mean Thera was a super tho I thought you implied that.
I not necessarily as much "assumptions" or unstudied in geology, or haven't any right to come up with connections as you make out.
I am sick of people complaining about my writing. I had a messed up education, and I have asperges (& ocd). No one ever offers to help me write or compliements me on my ideas/connections/discoveries, its all hyper-individualism and excuses and artificially high standards and set rules and ways of having to do things.
Sean.
I just sent you an invite on facebook. My name is Paul and I am really looking forward to reading your theory on this. I hope you get my invite and accept it. I too love to learn and think freely and have a similiar view as to what may have happened. Hit me up. I look forward to new ideas but I think we are on the same page here and would like to compare ideas.
my nips are hard
my nipples are hard
@Sean Bambrough
How can a continent the size of Asia sink below the sea? I think we would still notice. There is no geological process called continental "shift", if you mean drift then yes it causes subduction at destructive plate boundaries which give rise to volcanoes. The ring of volcanoes around the Pacific are there because the Pacific sea floor is subducting.
Super volcanoes are a different beast but are not, usually, a consequence of plate tectonics. (By the way, Thera was not a super eruption, it was VEI 6 and super vs are VEI 8 and above.)
I would suggest you study a bit of geology before making geological assumptions.
Sorry but I have to mention your overuse of the forward slash and brackets. Constant use of forward slash/oblique is confusing/perplexing and strange/odd. Even odder is using slahes in brackets WITHIN brackets!!!
I looked at your web page (h/)ol/(y)..S/(h(i/)t)
If you want to be listened to you must first be understood.
@Kara Kittle
Tambora erupted about 200 years ago, in Indonesia. Its eruption left a crater with a 5 miles diameter! It was big. A few decades later, in Java, Krakatoa erupted and its explosion could be heard as far as Australia and India. There are several documentaries about it coz this particular eruption was well documented by the Dutch who controlled Java. Recently, there was hurricane in Louisiana, an earthquake in China and a tsunami in the Indian Ocean....
Disasters still happen, and still take many lives. The Earth still shakes, blows and pukes. The eruption of Santorini mentioned on this documentary was enough to wipe out the thousands of people who lived around that volcano. And that is no different from the other disasters I just mentioned. So yes, disasters still happen but there are more people in the planet now, so it will take something much bigger to wipe us all out.
But it will happen. Could be a meteor....or the eruption of the Super Volcano under the Yellow Stone National Park (US). Either disaster will do it. The Super Volcano scenario is a fact and has been discussed by documentaries on PBS, NatGeo and History Channel. That volcano is late and will lead to mass extinction.
Atlantis was definately not Thera (or Crete) and certainly can not be.
Atlantis was a continent, larger than Asia and Africa; large plain; was beyond Gibraltar; had many numerous species of animals; was in the real ocean not inner sea; etc.
Atlantis was America/s (Nth &/or Sth [cp Jim Allen's Bolivia theory]) and its "sinking/submergence" was continental shift. The shoal/muddy sea is connected with features of the Atlantic such as bars/banks, bermuda triangle, sediments, sargasso sea, etc.
The Atlantis continental shift is connected with supervolcanoes/super-eruptions like Ramus mentions but not (just) the Thera one (which may have been part of the wider tectonic catastrophe).
(My thesis/(free) e-booklet covers all this and much more evidence if anyone who wants to know more.)
@Kara Kittle
It is happening today, its the REALLY big events that have not happened for thousands of years. For instance the last great super eruption was around 75000 years ago and when you consider super eruptions take place, on average, every 65000 years, we are overdue one.
We are still in an ice age though we are in a pleasant "interglacial" period. It will only take a few degrees difference to put us back into full ice age.
If you think that the earth is peaceful here are a few facts to give you pause.
There are around 1400 earthquakes every day.
There are around 3000 active volcanoes, about 50 of which erupt every year.
There are over 40 hurricanes, typhoons and cyclones every year.
Around 15,000,000 people died in the last 1000 years from natural disaster.
I thought the legend of Atlantis was first told to Plato by his grandfather Solon. I thought Solon had heard it from Egyptian sages and storytellers.
I have no problem with thinking Atlantis was near Thera. But I also think there were many ancient civilizations that were destroyed in some like manner.
What I want to know is this, if the Earth is billions of years old and volcanoes were exploding rampantly and destroying things on the surface and changing the climate, why is it not happening now? Are we living in a good run of luck for 6,000 years? Not saying anything about the age of the Earth, just wanting to know why it is not happening to us today.
And Natalie Maynes directed and produced this, isn't she a Dixie Chick?
This is an entirely fallacious documentary.Anyone who has read the Timaeus will know that Atlantis is purely hypothetical.
Then again the people who made this tripe intended it to be watched by people who haven't.
Yeah, she's fit, the redhead ain't bad either!
Great documentary! For once, someone made a documentary presenting a simple - yet very plausible - theory to what Atlantis was and how it might have met its end. There's no guarantee that civilization truly existed, but if it did, Hughes got a pretty plausible theory on how everything went on....then down. She did a remarkable job on tying the all historic pieces together with as few conjectures as possible -- given that there are so few accounts on Atlantis.
There are other theories out there, and many are incredibly off-the-wall. For example, the other day I saw Tsoukalos say, on an episode of Ancient Aliens that the island of Atlantis wasn't destroyed, but rather "lifted off" and flew away (implying the whole thing was a spaceship). I would normally just ignore a theory as unfounded, improbable and altogether speculative as that one. However, that day, looking at his increasingly tanned and funny face (he was almost cracking up while laying his mad theory) I could not help it but laugh!
The Minoans, with their great accomplishments in the Arts, Politics and Architecture are surely great candidates to Atlanteans. And the violent eruption of Sartorini is sure a great candidate to a cataclysm. From all theories about this mythical civilization, I go with Hughes' one!
You can always count on the likes of Bettany Hughes, Michael Woods and Ken Burns for intelligent, researched, reasonable, objective and factual documentaries. We, lovers of History, are in great debt to people like them.
...not the "invaded by aliens" part, but just that there have been many already, and films like Independence Day help to keep the public feeling like it's all entertainment and myth and dismiss the cases that have and continue to happen.
not an "alien invasion" but still related.
don't mean to take this thread off-topic, but it was interesting to see that comparison made
@Ramus
if you only knew how ironic that statement is.
Us believing Platos Atlantean myth is akin to someone 2000 years from now digging up a dvd of Independance Day and thinking we were invaded by aliens.
I was taught it was an allegory, and that Plato said so plainly. Hmmm.
so after acknowledging that atlantis had highly developed technology, why was the possibility of a technology cataclysm not investigated?
answer: the documentary is intended to give you an opinion instead of presenting information for you to make your own
its a shame, the documentary had promise...
3/10
i always hold out for more footage of the ruins, but alas, i am not sated! good doc, but mostly stuff i already knew.
i think that the people on thera and crete, being part of an advanced society, would have stayed in those areas, as other ports of call might not be to their social standards. if most of the minoans lived on thera and crete then such a large portion of them would have been wiped out that it explains the abrupt fall. in an advanced society you are likely to have specializations as well, so the survivors of the society may not have had all the needed bits of knowledge to duplicate and rebuild somewhere else. they had advanced pottery, but the potter knows how to make it, the housewife knows how to use it. the same thing would happen today. most people do not have the needed skills to rebuild society to its 'as we know it' standards. you'd need all kinds of specialized people to rebuild.
she's fit